On Thu, Dec 07, 2017 at 01:29:32AM -0300, Franz wrote: > On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Unman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 05:13:56PM +0100, 'Tom Zander' via qubes-users > > wrote: > > > On Wednesday, 6 December 2017 16:08:28 CET Unman wrote: > > > > "useful, but wasnt any good" - do you mean buggy or poorly designed? > > > > What 2 features should be implemented/fixed? > > > > > > > > I confess I rarely use the Manager, so don't have a feel for what's > > wrong > > > > with it. > > > > > > To be clear, the main reason the old one is removed seems to be that it > > > would have had to be reimplemented due to the architecture changes in 4.0 > > > > > > > Tom, this is simply not true. > > If you look at issue #2132 you will see that it was a deliberate design > > principle. It has nothing to do with the architecture changes and > > everything to do with simplifying the UX. > > > > I have to say that most of the users I have helped to work with Qubes > > (most unfamiliar to Linux and certainly unused to the command line), > > simply DO NOT USE the manager. > > > > Well that proves nothing. If you do not much use the manager and are > teaching people to use Qubes, then you tend to teach to follow the way you > do things and your followers will just do that. > > On the contrary I am using the manager for everything also for starting > applications and when I teach Qubes teach it this way and it is learned > this way, so that loosing the manager means loosing all references to be > able to use Qubes.
Franz, I choose not to use the manager. But, as I've said before, my requirements are probably very different from most users. For various reasons, I don't listen to music/play games/ use YouTube/ etc etc - most of the stuff I do is in a terminal. Even people who like me think this is weird. But the people I help use their computers in very different ways from that. I don't teach them not to use the manager, I show them how to use Qubes without the manager - some of them find it for themselves, and like it - some don't. Here are some things these users DONT want to do: Start a qube Stop a qube Start a disposableVM Look in the manager to see if there are updates. Here are some of the things they want to do: Read their emails. Go online in a secure way. Browse without risking their emails/bank accounts Open a web browser that wont keep history/cant compromise their private stuff. Look at pictures from phones/ downloads as safely as possible. Keep their system updated. Do you see what I mean? For many users the HOW of Qubes is completely irrelevant, and because the Manager focusses on that it's a distraction. The default Menu system has the same problem - it draws attention to the qubes, not the activities. So by providing a simple menu system, a few templates and some minor configuration you can have a workable system that almost anyone can use without knowing anything about the Qubes infrastructure, and without need for the Manager. Will this suit everyone? Of course not - it doesn't suit me. It certainly wont suit many of the people in this thread. If this is any guide then many current users seem to want something in 4.0 For that reason I think it's worthwhile spending some time on reinstating something like the old Manager in 4.0. I've started on this focussing on the "display" side of the current Manager, rather than the function side that some people seem to want to enhance. Let's see how we get on. unman -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/20171207151904.4x5jq4tzdv6splst%40thirdeyesecurity.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
