On 12/10/2008, at 5:17 AM, Xavier Shay wrote:
> > Glenn Davy wrote: >> Torm3nt wrote: >>> I'm not talking me specifically, but I know of other environments >>> that >>> hvae this issue. Clearly you have the perfect environment where >>> you're >>> given ample time to achieve all results ;) >> im a bit like an 'ex smoker' on this issue so sorry if comes on too >> strong, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and back what carlw >> said. i >> _dont_ work in an ideal environment and have too often decided to >> leave >> some/many tests out in order to meet an imposed deadline - >> resulting in >> much more time lost later. imho time spent writing tests is an >> investement returning time gains later. ergo, writing tests is even >> more important when under time constraints. i think time saved >> in >> browser, esp for a process intensive scenario pays for the time >> writing >> tests. but real returns are with the problems caught and solved now >> and >> not down the tack > This is a trade-off to be weighed by the business, as developers we > need > to be able to convince them that it is worthwhile (too much > interest ;). You've hit the nail on the head, Xavier. Whilst it is *a good thing* to strive for better automated testing and greater test coverage, the effort required needs to be assessed in a business context. There are times when the effort cannot be justified. Keith > "Technical debt" isn't always a bad thing, just like normal debt [1]. > > I know I've worked on low value things that are potentially time > consuming to test properly (usually legacy). Even when bugs crop up, I > have found often it was still prudent to not have a thorough test > suite > (usually just a big integration test "does this not blow up"). > > So maybe I'm crap at testing. I get better at that on my own time or > get > the business to pay for some time for me to get better. > > Xav > > [1] Though normally it is > >> >> just my .02 >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Carl Woodward <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> But how much time do you spend in the browser??? >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Torm3nt <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>>> I am working at it, but the issue isn't with development - often >>> it's with >>>> management who don't want to give you the time ;) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Carl Woodward >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> If you tried testing everything, you would notice that it >>> doesn't take >>>>> much more time. Particularly once you learn the testing framework >>>>> really well. >>>>> >>>>> I think that is the issue with testing, is that it isn't straight >>>>> forward. You need to work at. I am working at it. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Torm3nt <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>>>>> That's not entirely true, especially in a client-driven >>> management >>>>>> environment. >>>>>> >>>>>> More people should use Agile =) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Carl Woodward >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But you do have time... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Enrico Teotti >>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And test everything. EVERYTHING... >>>>>>>> and if you don't have time to test everything I suggest to >>>>>>>> prioritize: >>>>>>>> 1) models >>>>>>>> 2) the app flow with integration tests, stories >>> (cucumbers?) or maybe >>>>>>>> selenium >>>>>>>> 3) spec helpers & controllers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Carl Woodward >>>>>>> 0412218979 >>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Carl Woodward >>>>> 0412218979 >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Carl Woodward >>> 0412218979 >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails Oceania" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
