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Regardless of the fact of what type of campout it was, I still think a
teachable moment was lost. There are Christian scout leaders as well and a
time to pass on mature wisdom and Christian values was lost.
Robert Hamilton
Let's keep one thing straight here: This was not a Ranger campout and
this was not a commander who did the disciplining. It was a boy scout leader,
on a boy scout campout. Not having the facts straight usually leads to
confusion.
----- Original Message -----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 6:21
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [RR] Spank'n the sassy
boy..
I have to agree with Victor. There is nothing wrong
in telling someone why
you want it done. However, I myself am
guilty sometimes of behaving the
same way with my 11 year old
daughter. I sometimes get frustrated with too
many questions and
just want to be obeyed. Perhaps that was the
situation
here??? We don't know the full story and the entire
situation, especially
the time leading up to this event.
I also
think that, as far as the commander was concerned, that a
"Teachable
Moment" was lost. The commander could (and maybe should)
have taken the boy
aside and in a very calming tone explained that
sometimes adults should be
obeyed regardless of how we feel, and that we
don't always need to know the
"why". He could have also explained
that as adults, we don't always know
the "why" either. That doesn't
take away from our responsility to obey
those in authority. The
commander could also have used this as a witnessing
opportunity in
explaining that God does not always tell us why he wants us
to do
something, but just expects us to obey. Obedience leads
to
opportunities to see God's hand at work, and as we obey, and as time
goes
on, we will come to understand the "why" of the
situation.
Robert Hamilton
TB Commander
Parker
Colorado
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf
Of Victor Zalakos
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 5:12 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [RR] Spank'n the sassy
boy..
Isn't it interesting that yet again most posts open ignore
the very essence
of a post.
Duane was talking about the issue of
an adult striking of whom he was not
guardian or parent. In many
countries this is illegal. This is against the
discipline policy of most
(if not all) Ranger groups I know of. It just is
stupid behaviour. It is
asking for intervention from governemnt. It is
foolish.
Even
though I know it will open the flood gates of misguided bigotry I
can't
help myself asking the question - what is wrong with telling a child
why
you want him to do something.
I certainly know that God didn't bless
me with five slaves - but children
to bring up in the way of the Lord.
The Jewish tradition (that Jesus was
brought up in) is based on questions
and answers. A child asks "Why..." and
the parent or Rabbi explains. This
is how knowledge and understanding and
wisdom and plain old "how to live
right" is passed on from one generation
to another.
"Do it now"
doesn't teach anything except fear.
If you can't offer an explanation
for why you want something done - then
why ask for it to be done - just
to prove you can????
There are times when it necessary to give an
instruction that needs to be
delivered in a tone and manner that receives
an immediate reaponse like
"get back" when a child is in immediate
danger. It is in your manner or
delivery that such an instruction will be
obeyed automatically. It is on
the basis of the relationship you have
developed that all you instructions
will be followed. Remember - respect
a better motivation than fear. We are
told to fear the Lord - not our
parents or leaders.
Victor.
At 03:45 PM 1/10/2001
-0700, Ken Komoto wrote:
>This response is patently ridiculous and is
exactly why we have so many
>kids who
>do not respond to
authority. Since when does any adult have to give a
child
a
>reason for any command? This response places the child in the
position of
>authority. This is completely upside down from
biblical principle which
very
>specifically states that a child
should obey and reverses the Royal Ranger
>Code
>which specifies
Obedience of those in Authority. God save us from
those
who
>would put children in charge of the
world!!!
>
>At 07:36 AM 10/2/2001 +1000, Victor Zalakos
wrote:
>>The grandfather erred in my judgement by not giving the
child a reason
>>for putting on the shoes - "you will cut your feet
to shreds on the
>>blackberries" seems
appropriate.
>>Perhaps give the instruction and explanation twice,
then pick the child
>>up and remove them from the situation and the
danger that lay
nearby.
>>
>>Victor.
>
>============================================================
>Kenneth
Komoto
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Pioneer Commander Outpost
193 Phone: (530)752-7197
>Southpointe
Christian Center Fax :
(530)752-0329
>Sacramento, Ca 95828
>
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