> > --- "D.J. Holland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I disagree. I'm of the personal opinion that if gender is indeed an > > issue, then not only is it an issue, it is an issue worthy of open > > debate among the National Leadership. It is when people continue to > > bring it up behind the backs of leadership, berating them for being so > > closed minded that we go back to the submission issue, not the gender > > issue. > > Hold it.. pard! > > "Backs of Leadership"<G> > > I've been saw'n at this log since 1995! > Do you think I have been secret about it?<G> > > > Forgive me if I gave the wrong impression in my previous post. I don't > > have a problem with women, I married one, and was given birth and raised > > by one, among others. I also don't have a problem with women in > > ministry and leadership positions. I do have a problem with it if it > > occurs outside the policies set by any organization's leadership. > > Then you are solid, promoteible, company man. > > *I'm just a Royal Ranger. > > > > > > > The Boy Scouts have defended their standards, all the way up to the > > Supreme Court about their leadership not having certain lifestyles. I > > agree with their standards and support them wholeheartedly. I just > > wonder why the Assemblies is not allowed their standards just the same? > > Jonathan can explain this question better than me. > > I beleve the answer is that RR standards are un-challenged in court > but falls under the right of a privet religious organization to hold > discrimination policies in light of it's convictions as a faith, protected > by the US Constitution. > > > While I do not expect people of that lifestyle choice to be allowed > > leadership positions in Rangers, why is there so much bickering behind > > the backs of leadership about gender? After all, as my wife reminds me, > > Royal Rangers was intended to be a men MENTORING boys ministry. > > Originaly, it was created to keep AoG from loseing it's boys from > church involvement as they became teens. The format at that time > allready had Missionets under WMC so it made sence that RR was to > be under Men's fellowship. *Lately, that is not allways the > organizational structure. *But let's shift to my other pet subject.. > > Is it a MEN's program.. or about the BOYS? > Is it a Program.. or a Ministry? > Is NTC about the Patrol system.. or about a guided "experiance" > > If Rangernet is following, I hope you see how the dead horse chases it's > tail.<G> > > > While > > there is nothing wrong with boys learning from and being ministered to > > by women, can we expect them to learn to be true MEN of God from being > > mentored by women? > > Is this why there are no AoG pastors that are Women? > Is this why we do not send women to the mission field? > What does the Bible have to say? > What does the general Council of the AoG have to say? > (www.AG.org) > > I believe this issue has been answered very well by > > James Dobson in his book "Bringing Up Boys." He lays it on the line > > that boys need men, especially Godly men to set the example of what a > > Godly man is. > > > > When offenses occur, it is not necessarily uninformed individuals acting > > out of ignorance. It very well may be individuals who know the > > policies, yet choose to ignore them. That is not ignorance, that is > > rebellion. Partial obedience is complete disobedience. For > > clarification, see the story of Saul in the Old Testament. > > > > I am all in favor of women being in leadership positions, as long as it > > is in compliance with national standards. If those standards should > > change, then the issue will then become something else to squabble and > > bicker about. <grin> > > > > Just a reminder here, folks. We are Royal Rangers, a ministry to boys. > > We are not Boy Scouts, an organization for boys. > > *I agree with you there. > Royal Rangers is clearly not about the boys. > > However you don't read that in the manuals or find it in the Ranger > Code.. > > To implement your > > personal beliefs of standards and ignore national standards is to have a > > pick and choose ministry, which I do not see anywhere in the manuals. > > Go ahead, let the men step down from the role of authority God has given > > them, causing the women to step in and pick up the slack. Just don't > > call it Royal Rangers, because that is not the heart of this ministry. > > Wow.. We MEN then want to eliminate all women from Royal Rangers? > > > > > I only refer to gender talk as a dead horse because we can talk about it > > all we want, but unless we do something (within the established > > guidelines) to change that, then it is just that, a dead horse. Also, > > the topic of women in leadership positions is not outside my "comfort > > zone" but the idea of men in blatant defiance of national standards and > > calling it ministry is. I quote from the Ranger code: "A Royal Ranger > > is . . . Obedient. He obeys his parents, leaders and those in > > authority." > > Well.. those in authority don't think the issue is important. > > I'm comming around to agree<G> But then, I have submited to pastoral > authority, and do not make policy. I will note- there is no real policy > but in fact a letter called "guidelines for Women in Royal Rangers" > that can not be found in any published leader handbook. > > (italics mine for emphasis) As long as "ethics need to > > change" are we going to change the code to fit the way we choose to > > uphold (or not) the standards? Royal Rangers is not a pick and choose > > ministry. > > > > In the love of Christ, > > > > DJ > > Love you back brother DJ! > I do... > > DR "Doc" Wheeler > -=A#1=- > FCF July '66 > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "EagleDad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 1:02 PM > > Subject: Re: [RR] Just a short word > > > > > > > > > > *I'm of the personal opinion that gender is not an issue > > > worthy of open debate, among the National Leadership but is a > > > privet matter that is linked individual choices WE make,to > > > approprate behavior in interpersonal RRanger relationships. > > > > > > It is no surprise that the "Rangernet Debate" was not mentioned.. > > > Among gentalmen, respect for all Rangers leaders is a given. > > > > > > When "Offences" occure.. It often is the result of un-informed > > > individuals acting out of ignorance. This has been our history, > > > and fortuneatly we can change that in an instant. No policy is > > > needed. Only personal action is needed. > > > > > > > > > Information is getting out in the field, from the grass roots that > > > ethics need to change. Good men with wholesome intentions will carry > > > the message and share the light. I hear this all the time backchannel. > > > > > > On Rangernet, there is a stream of repete messages along the lines > > that > > > gender talk is a "dead horse" topic, and is un-welcome in your > > > E-mail box.. > > > > > > *But so is any topic that is outside your "comfort zone" and surely > > > as you saw, in this transitional meeting, gender is not the issue some > > > beleve. So! we see a light at the end of the tunnel. Respect is an > > > attitude.. it raises MORALE and shows effective Leadership. > > > > > > *Later when it is common to see Women attending Training, such > > > issues will not be remembered as worthy of mention. It will in > > > time, and with God's help fade out. > > > > > > Praise God! > > > -=D=- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Shane Reidelberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > All, > > > > It seems like the women in Rangers issue has been beat to death here > > in > > > > the > > > > past day or so, but here's a small bit of information from the flat > > land > > > > of > > > > Illinois. > > > > I attended our district commanders conference this past saturday. > > Rick > > > > Dostal and Mike Laliberty were on hand from the national office to > > teach > > > > the > > > > Ranger Basics/Program Transition Course to those of us who already > > have > > > > our > > > > LMA. From what I saw, there were about six or seven female > > commanders > > > > in > > > > the transition course. No mention whatsoever was made of this > > debate. > > > > With > > > > the Nat'l Training and Camps Coordinator and Deputy Nat'l Commander > > in > > > > the > > > > room, you would think that someone would have spoke up. No one did. > > > > > > > > I don't know about some of you, but I for one welcome any help that > > God > > > > > > > > sees fit to send me. > > > > > > > > GOD BLESS! > > > > > > > > Shane > > > > > > > > Cdr Shane A. Reidelberger > > > > Outpost 90 > > > > Percy Assembly of God > > > > Percy, Illinois > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: > > http://messenger.msn.com > > > > > > > > _______ > > > > Let the Golden Rule be your daily rule. > > > > > > > > Please pray for your list sponsor: http://eBible.org/mpj/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > or visit http://rangernet.org/subscribe.htm > > > > http://rangernet.org > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > *High MORALE is the Index of effective Leadership. > > > --------------********+********-------------------- > > > Morale raises belief of the Leader in the follower, > > > of the follower in the Leader, of each in themself, > > > and both in the .....cause! > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > > _______ > > > Let the Golden Rule be your daily rule. > > > > > > Please pray for your list sponsor: http://eBible.org/mpj/ > > > > > > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > or visit http://rangernet.org/subscribe.htm > > > http://rangernet.org > > > > > ===== > *High MORALE is the Index of effective Leadership. > --------------********+********-------------------- > Morale raises belief of the Leader in the follower, > of the follower in the Leader, of each in themself, > and both in the .....cause! > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > _______ > Let the Golden Rule be your daily rule. > > Please pray for your list sponsor: http://eBible.org/mpj/ > > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit http://rangernet.org/subscribe.htm > http://rangernet.org >
Hm I don`t have any Problems with females in RR. Maybe its because the History of the RR in Germany is different from the History of RR in USA. As i know ( if it is wrong please correct me ), the RR Programme in Germany started as work with young people ( female and male ). In Germany there are also some rules. If a person has problems, the person speaks with a person OF SAME GENDER. Otherwise some difficult Situations could appear. As men and especially as R-Rangers we do respect the female Rangers and be polite gentlemen. The female RR wear their clothes so, that they dont bring the male Rangers ( mR ) into trouble ( you know what i mean ). There are Boys and Girls Teams. A Man is a leader of a boys team and a women is a leader of a girls team. If we have Camps, we go as whole outpost ( male + female ) to a camp. Each Team has its Team area. We respect the team area of an other team. Especially teams of different gender respect the areas of each other. In "normal life" we have contact with the other gender. So RR should be also a programme in which we learn how to treat the other gender and how to manage problems which can appear. -- Allzeit bereit f�r Jesus Bjoern Schmidt RR Stammwart #210 Hadamar [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rangerbjoern.gmxhome.de http://Bjoern.Schmidt.bei.t-online.de Voice- / Fax- Mail 089/1488216823 Spiegel-Leser wissen mehr! Bestellen Sie hier Ihr pers�nliches Abo: http://bonus.gmx.net/?gid=18061869&prid=173 _______ Let the Golden Rule be your daily rule. Please pray for your list sponsor: http://eBible.org/mpj/ To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://rangernet.org/subscribe.htm http://rangernet.org
