Your insights are interesting Mark. As for cost, our section has 2 Red Cross certified instructors. We do CPR and FA for $25. It is only that high to cover my cost in buying the video tapes and books. We rent the mannikins as needed. At a minimum, we could do CPR/FA for $11 per person; hardly expensive. Our classes have been poorly attended. The bulk of attendees have been the school teachers and daycare workers from our church. I have sent info to all the churches in the section offering the course at their place. I just need at least 6 to conduct a class.
The problem with National coming up with a program is legal. Recall my discussion of the Good Samaritan laws. If I am "trained" via the National Office's course, and I provide aid and get sued as a result, what are the implications? The Red Cross program is very well know and has been through the courts; ours would get picked over like a carcass at a vulture convention. Not saying we'd lose, but it is expense dealing with the legal system. We are going to apply to a local foundation for a grant to buy our own CPR/AED equipment. If we get it, we can do Red Cross CPR/FA for as little as $8 per person. As for AEDs, we live in the Metro Pittsburgh area and there are AEDs in public places. Kelvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark W Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [RR] CPR/FA Training Required - Follow up > > I would say it is as optional as Ranger Basics. All Commanders including > Lt. Commanders are encouraged to take Ranger Basics hence the path to > First Aid and CPR. > > The fee for Red Cross First Aid and CPR Training in our area is about > 45.00 per person. I was able to offer it at about 15.00 per boy and > 20.00 per leader making a very small amount to cover the overhead. I > think the 45.00 fee is excluding a lot of trained people. Just think of > it from a money standpoint. If a average church of 12 leaders went for > FA /CPR Training it would cost almost 545.00 just for a dozen leaders and > probably a lunch thrown in. Keeping in mind that it would need to be > redone every year for CPR and every 3 years for First Aid. That in > itself is a chunk of change. > > I think it would be better served to break it away from being > outsourced... and make a in house RR training course with certificate. > Do we need defibulator training? Nope - never saw one except in a > course. Do we need extreme training like that? I don't think so. We > need to teach the basics and stress call 911. Saying call EMS will often > get you a blank stare... call 911 they know right now what that means. > > In the past 24 years my experience with CPR and First Aid training is > they have dumbed it down a bunch. I have taken the course about 6 times > due to my work requirements. I think we as Royal Ranger Commanders could > encourage National RR to put together a "Better way" and side step this > money thing. A Chapter or a few weeks of lessons on this topic would fit > right in the new modified RR work book. It soul be built in every > quarter. > > My two cents...yours may vary. > > Mark Jones, Spfd South Sectional Commander > > p.s. In the past two years I facilitated a certified Red Cross Course > for over a hundred or more RR in our area. I think we as Royal Rangers > could make something work better for us and our needs. > > On Thu, 29 May 2003 07:51:44 -0400 "CmdrPier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > > It appears that CPR/FA training is optional, that is, while it is a > > stated > > requirement, no one is held back if they don't get the training. > > > > After teaching a CPR/FA class last Saturday that was poorly > > attended, I > > wondered where our leaders are getting trained - not by me (I teach > > CPR/FA > > for our section, and most of the attendees in the last 3 years were > > non-Rangers). > > > > Then I wondered if our leaders are untrained, why would the > > sponsoring > > church let them take children and youth into the outdoors without > > adequate > > first aid training? Are our churches willing to take that risk? > > Under the > > Pennsylvania Good Samaritan laws, it is very difficult to sue > > someone, who > > while providing aid, you harm the victim PROVIDED you are acting > > within the > > scope of your training. According to the Red Cross, the law is so > > clear on > > this that it is difficult to get an attorney to take one of these > > cases. > > However, if you provide first aid and you haven't been trained, or > > you don't > > have a current card, you risk being sued because under the Good > > Samaritan > > laws because the scope of your training is ZERO, which means you do > > not > > provide treatment, or you do so at your own risk. > > > > Having decided not to provide treatment because of the risk of being > > sued > > under the Good Samaritan laws, you and the church are now at risk of > > being > > sued by the parents because they entrusted their children to you and > > the > > church, and the church did not provide trained leaders. I recall > > from BLaw > > that the law uses the "reasonable man" concept. In this case, would > > a > > reasonable man assume that an organization taking boys camping, with > > all the > > hazards that go with it (use of knives, axes, etc.), would have > > leaders > > trained to provide care in the event of injury? I think so. > > > > Now if our leaders are trained elsewhere, is that something the > > sectional > > leadership should track? Should Royal Rangers require all leaders > > to have > > training, if so how do you enforce it? > > > > I wonder if the churches and the Royal Ranger hierarchy are aware of > > this > > risk? Although our permission slips say we assume no "liability in > > case of > > accident or sickness" (full text below), the courts have ruled that > > you > > cannot contract away responsibility for your negligence. If the > > District or > > National office has reviewed this issue with legal counsel, I'd be > > curious > > to know the outcome. > > > > I'm thinking that churches should require ALL their workers - > > volunteer and > > paid - to have CPR/FA training. > > > > Here's the text from our permission slips: > > While striving to ensure a wholesome, safe, and closely supervised > > environment for the boys in its care, the Penn-Del District, > > Southwest > > Suburban Section, and Outpost 34 Royal Rangers cannot be held liable > > for any > > unforeseen and unforeseeable accident or injuries which may occur > > during the > > course of any Royal Ranger activity. Responsible leaders, persons, > > and > > acting agents transporting on behalf of the Royal Ranger ministry of > > the > > Assemblies of God assume no personal liability in case of accident > > or > > sickness. > > > > Kelvin Pier > > Outpost 34 > > Southwest Suburban Section, Penn-Del District > > > > > > _______ > > > > > > List host: http://eBible.org/mpj/ List info: > > http://eBible.org/rangernet/faq.htm > > > > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > or visit http://eBible.org/subscribe.htm > > > > > > > Download a Free Royal Ranger Database. It's packed with goodies and it > will make record keeping fun! > Over 25 related databases and 11 years of field experience. Just like > Salvation it's free! > http://home.classicnet.net/mjones02/index.html > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______ List host: http://eBible.org/mpj/ List info: http://eBible.org/rangernet/faq.htm To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://eBible.org/subscribe.htm
