For a research library the pagination of the bibliography can be very important, as the the graduate student creates a bibliography for his/her thesis.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Robert Maxwell <robert_maxw...@byu.edu>wrote: > You’re right, Deborah, RDA considers this is an attribute of the > expression and so theoretically the page numbers aren’t relevant (a point > that seems to have been missed by the author of the example) but as a > practical matter people apparently are interested in knowing where the > bibliography is in the resource (a manifestation attribute) or at least how > extensive the bibliography is (which would probably be an expression > attribute). Though actually, a bibliography that the creator includes with > a work is part of the work, not any particular expression, right? So > perhaps we could say the supplementary content element combines aspects of > work and expression *and* manifestation, and we’ll need to resolve this > before we can start making discrete ER descriptions. **** > > ** ** > > This isn’t the only place this occurs. Summarization of the content (7.10) > is listed as an expression attribute but in my opinion a plot summary is in > fact an attribute of the work. But the summarization can also be expression > related. The examples under 7.10.1.3 include both: I’d say “Pictures the > highlights of the play Julius Caesar …” is work-related, as is “A brief > historical account up to the introduction of wave mechanics”, but “Episodes > from the novel, read by Ed Begley” is related to a spoken word expression > of the work. Same for the example about “Dune”. And so forth. Similarly the > contents note, which is well-concealed in Chapter 25 for related works, > usually does describe a relationship at the work level, but contents notes > can be at the expression level as well (e.g. a contents note listing the > French titles in a French translation of an anthology).**** > > ** ** > > Bob**** > > ** ** > > Robert L. Maxwell**** > > Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian**** > > Genre/Form Authorities Librarian**** > > 6728 Harold B. Lee Library**** > > Brigham Young University**** > > Provo, UT 84602**** > > (801)422-5568 **** > > ** ** > > "We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves > to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Deborah Fritz > *Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2012 1:53 PM > > *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Brackets for unnumbered pages in notes?**** > > ** ** > > At the risk of sounding even more obsessive-compulsive than Bob, I offer > you this.**** > > ** ** > > Not everything that we thought of as ‘Notes’ under AACR, is a ‘Note’ in > RDA.**** > > ** ** > > The example you show, comes under the category of ‘Content’.**** > > ** ** > > Content can either be at the Work level—applying to **every** expression > of the work; or at the Expression level—applying to every manifestation of > the expression.**** > > ** ** > > Let’s leave aside, for the moment, the question of whether we should be > including page numbers for bibliographical references, when those > references could be on different pages in different manifestations.**** > > ** ** > > This particular type of content is covered under > *7.16<http://access.rdatoolkit.org/7.16.html> > *as Supplementary Content**** > > ** ** > > The instruction on recording supplementary content says “*record* the > nature of that content”**** > > ** ** > > In > “Module1IntroManifestItemsSept12<http://www.loc.gov/catworkshop/RDA%20training%20materials/LC%20RDA%20Training/Module1IntroManifestItemsSept12.doc>’ > of the LC RDA Training documents, they say:**** > Transcribed Elements vs. Recorded Elements**** > > RDA distinguishes between transcribed elements and recorded elements.**** > > **· **For transcribed elements, generally accept the data as > found on the resource.**** > > **· **For recorded elements, the found information is often > adjusted (for example, the hyphens in an ISBN are omitted).**** > > ** ** > > I can’t find an explanation of this distinction anywhere in RDA, but it > certainly is a helpful distinction and it might be very useful if it was > added somewhere (perhaps in the glossary)**** > > ** ** > > So, if an instruction says ‘Transcribe’ you will put down exactly what you > find on the source, except for the exceptions provided in a particular > instruction; this term is used in most of the instructions in chapters 2-4 > for recording the attributes of manifestations and items.**** > > ** ** > > But if an instruction says ‘Record’, you will put down what you find on > the source, but not necessarily exactly as you found it. This term is used > in all (?) of the instructions in chapters 6-7 for recording the attributes > of works and expressions, and certain of the instructions for recording the > attributes of manifestations and items (most notably chapter 3) .**** > > ** ** > > So, following the instruction at 7.16, we simply ‘record’ the > supplementary content, without the requirement to transcribe any of the > data that we include, which means we do not need to use square brackets for > anything we enter for this element.**** > > ** ** > > As for the things that RDA still considers Notes (under > 2.20<http://access.rdatoolkit.org/2.20.html>): > 2.20.1.2 says we can take information for notes on manifestation or item > from any source, and 2.20.1.3 refers us to 1.10, which does not mention > anything about needing square brackets for any data; so it is good thing > that the LC-PCC PS for 1.7.1 has the instruction quoted by Bob (although it > would be easier to find if it was linked to 1.10)**** > > ** ** > > Deborah**** > > ** ** > > - - - - - - - - **** > > Deborah Fritz**** > > TMQ, Inc.**** > > debo...@marcofquality.com**** > > www.marcofquality.com**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA <RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA>] *On > Behalf Of *Robert Maxwell > *Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2012 3:25 PM > *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Brackets for unnumbered pages in notes?**** > > ** ** > > Sorry, at the risk of sounding obsessive-compulsive, the customary phrase > used in most U.S. cataloging is**** > > ** ** > > Includes bibliographical references (pages 67-69).**** > > not**** > > Includes bibliographic references (pages 67-69).**** > > as I wrote.**** > > ** ** > > Bob**** > > ** ** > > Robert L. Maxwell**** > > Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian**** > > Genre/Form Authorities Librarian**** > > 6728 Harold B. Lee Library**** > > Brigham Young University**** > > Provo, UT 84602**** > > (801)422-5568 **** > > ** ** > > "We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves > to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA <RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA>] *On > Behalf Of *Robert Maxwell > *Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2012 1:05 PM > *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Brackets for unnumbered pages in notes?**** > > ** ** > > RDA does not address this, but there is an LC-PCC Policy statement that > catalogers may follow if they like and should if they’re creating PCC > records:**** > > ** ** > > LC-PCC PS for 1.7.1[image: > http://access.rdatoolkit.org/images/rdalink.png]<http://access.rdatoolkit.org/document.php?id=rdachp1&target=rda1-787#rda1-787> > **** > > GENERAL GUIDELINES ON TRANSCRIPTION**** > > …**** > > Punctuation in Notes**** > > LC practice/PCC practice: **** > > …**** > > 3.**** > > Square brackets. Do not use square brackets in notes except when they are > used in quoted data.**** > > **** > > EXAMPLE**** > > 500 <http://desktop.loc.gov/saved/Mabibl_500> ##**** > > $a"Types of prayer wheels found in south central Tibet, by Mei Lin": pages > 310-375.**** > > Not "... pages [310]-[375]."**** > > 500 <http://desktop.loc.gov/saved/Mabibl_500> ##**** > > $a"2090245PMA"–-Page 4 of cover.**** > > Not "... –Page [4] of cover."**** > > ** ** > > This seems fine to me and I’ve been following it in my RDA cataloging:**** > > ** ** > > Includes bibliographic references (pages 67-69).**** > > not**** > > Includes bibliographic references (pages [67]-69).**** > > ** ** > > In my opinion it isn’t crucial in this context that the reader of the > record know that the number “67” doesn’t appear on page 67. What is crucial > is that the reader know that there’s a bibliography and that it’s three > pages long.**** > > ** ** > > Bob**** > > ** ** > > Robert L. Maxwell**** > > Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian**** > > Genre/Form Authorities Librarian**** > > 6728 Harold B. Lee Library**** > > Brigham Young University**** > > Provo, UT 84602**** > > (801)422-5568 **** > > ** ** > > "We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves > to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA <RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA>] *On > Behalf Of *Benjamin A Abrahamse > *Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2012 12:21 PM > *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > *Subject:* [RDA-L] Brackets for unnumbered pages in notes?**** > > ** ** > > RDA geniuses:**** > > ** ** > > I know that under RDA we no longer use brackets to indicate a range of > unnumbered pages or leaves in the physical description. What about in > notes? RDA 1.10.4 says, "Refer to passages in the resource, or in other > sources, if these either support assertions made in the description" but > nothing about what to do if you're referring to an unnumbered page. Doing > an "RDA quick search" for unnumbered pages brings up plenty of instructions > but none (that I saw) regarding notes.**** > > ** ** > > E.g.: **** > > ** ** > > Includes bibliographic resources (pages [67]-69).**** > > ** ** > > or**** > > ** ** > > Includes bibliographic resources (unnumbered page 67-page 69).**** > > ** ** > > ???**** > > ** ** > > Thanks,**** > > --Ben**** > > ** ** > > Benjamin Abrahamse**** > > Cataloging Coordinator**** > > Acquisitions, Metadata and Enterprise Systems**** > > MIT Libraries**** > > 617-253-7137**** > > ** ** > -- Gene Fieg Cataloger/Serials Librarian Claremont School of Theology gf...@cst.edu Claremont School of Theology and Claremont Lincoln University do not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any of the information or content contained in this forwarded email. The forwarded email is that of the original sender and does not represent the views of Claremont School of Theology or Claremont Lincoln University. It has been forwarded as a courtesy for information only.
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