I replied to another message about code/RS. Each SPS circuit is independent, so no 240V waveform possible.
And as was mentioned by Dave, be careful about planning to have motors or pumps be started by the SPS. The array cannot provide surge current like a battery, so the inverter is limited too. So check the specs of heat pump… Best- Mike SMA America Michael Mahon Technical Trainer, Solar Academy 6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300 Rocklin, CA 95765 U.S.A. Mobile: +1 916 918 9412 www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/> Solar Academy: www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html<http://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html> Full training schedule: https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html [http://sma-planet.sma.de/fileadmin/fm-dam/infos/social_media/facebook.jpg]<http://www.facebook.com/pages/SMA-America/140290312717395>[http://sma-planet.sma.de/fileadmin/fm-dam/infos/social_media/twitter.jpg]<http://twitter.com/SMA_America> [http://sma-planet.sma.de/fileadmin/fm-dam/infos/social_media/wordpress.jpg] <http://www.smainverted.com/> [Linkedin Logo] <http://www.linkedin.com/company/364675> [http://sma-planet.sma.de/fileadmin/fm-dam/infos/social_media/youtube.jpg] <http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL840A5336CAC32332> [SMAAFORUM_ICON] <http://smaadvance.com/signup/> [cid:[email protected]]<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sma-america.com%2Fhome-systems%2Fpv-solar-and-storage-solutions.html&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Mahon%40sma-america.com%7Cc4bcd59d55584c70681208d71b72e485%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C0%7C637008052588484449&sdata=itzAGcXAYe0xd5Zhzjuljm6dijJW%2FRGtItHrvxRkrTI%3D&reserved=0> This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Tedeyan Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 9:07 AM To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Running a grid tied system when the grid is down Hi Mike, For rapid shutdown, we are on NEC2014 in NY. So module level is not necessary. And the SPS is a huge reason for the SB inverters on this one. And in this case, it is almost exactly what the homeowner is looking for. But with the two inverters, can those SPS be wired into a panel rather than just into an outlet? So far, this customers house has not even been built yet. The barn is up, which is where the solar is going. So I am not 100% sure about loads, but there will likely be heat pumps. So if the SPS's can put power the same panel, then that might be just what I am looking for in this particular case. Although I am still curious if others have retrofitted other systems with something like I was initially talking about for an inverter that does not have a SPS. I think that at least in this market a low end 3rd party solution could gain a lot of traction. Dave Tedeyan, PE Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC [https://www.taitem.com/signatures/logo.png] 110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850 o. 607.277.1118 x121 f. 607.277.2119 www.taitem.com<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.taitem.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7Ca0cd26ef34764822fec208d73ddc4180%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C0%7C637045888514385004&sdata=akgnbkMo1%2FmNn9%2FSBccmGbEk%2F6bJEEeA9x7lBwOjjt4%3D&reserved=0> Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design B-Corporation Best for the World 2018 Honoree On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 10:58 AM Harry Mahon <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dave – how is Rapid Shutdown being complied with? And what load requires 240V – or is that needed to “fool” the PV inverters? With two SB-40s, you have the ability to wire for the homeowner two Secure Power Supply circuits – and get up to 2000W (at 120VAC) from each when sun is up and grid is down, no batteries or extra inverter needed. This is exactly the “simple industry solution” you mention, and it has been available in US from Sunny Boys only since 2013. Best regards - Mike SMA America Michael Mahon Technical Trainer, Solar Academy 6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300 Rocklin, CA 95765 U.S.A. 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Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: RE-wrenches <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Dave Tedeyan Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 7:41 AM To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Running a grid tied system when the grid is down Hi all, I get asked this question frequently, as I am sure many others do, and of course the first answer is "it cannot be done". But can it? I have a customer who is very keen on trying to make this happen. After a few lengthy conversations, he still wants to try it, even after understanding the limitations (i.e. a cloud passes by and now you cannot power loads...) I have some thoughts on how to make this work, and thought I would post it here to get others comments who I am sure have more experience in something like this than I do. -PV system would have to be backfed, so that they can turn off the main breaker to disconnect from the utility entirely (and then have to look at the neighbors, or guess when the grid comes back) -Have a fairly small 12V off grid inverter/charger than can be powered by a single 12v battery. This inverter would have to be manually turned off until after the grid is down and the main breaker is disconnected. -Would also need an auto transformer to bump up the voltage to 240V. Something like the Outback PSX240. -Once the main breaker is off and the off grid inverter is on, would it be able to wake up the grid tied inverters? On this project, there are two SMA SB-40 inverters. -There would need to be some kind of dump/diversion load to deal with excess power coming from the GT inverters. I have not used these in the past, but are the controllers smart enough to just deal with any excess power in the system? -Have a trickle charger on the battery to keep it topped off most of the time. -Another thought would be to DC couple. This would involve having a DC switch in one of the strings going to the GT inverter, such that when the house is islanded from the grid, they can flip the switch and have that one string go to a high voltage CC. Then they could just run some small loads off the power from that one string, or maybe we could allow it to try to wake up the GT inverters as well. This particular homeowner specifically does not want much in the way of batteries and has a smaller budget than will allow something sensible like a Sunny Island. At least in upstate NY, there are many people who would like to be able to take advantage of their solar when the sun is shining, but who just do not have the budget for a legit battery system. I am somewhat surprised that there is no simple industry solution for this yet, although maybe it is more complicated than I am making it out to be. And of course, you need a very hands on homeowner who very well understands the limitations of this kind of setup. I would certainly appreciate any feedback or comments on this, and also would like to hear if anyone has tried this kind of setup before. Thanks much! -Dave Dave Tedeyan, PE Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC [https://www.taitem.com/signatures/logo.png] 110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850 o. 607.277.1118 x121 f. 607.277.2119 www.taitem.com<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.taitem.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7Ca0cd26ef34764822fec208d73ddc4180%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C0%7C637045888514444976&sdata=qGyP0kTf0y3C6xAru2sIY5Vgw54bsR4zvYLeCleY1U8%3D&reserved=0> Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design B-Corporation Best for the World 2018 Honoree _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Foptions.cgi%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7Ca0cd26ef34764822fec208d73ddc4180%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C0%7C637045888514454970&sdata=Zxt5lbqm2vP9UxweYH6zaSyWhDQHlm3XL10OJ3SQu1Q%3D&reserved=0> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fre-wrenches%40lists.re-wrenches.org%2Fmaillist.html&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7Ca0cd26ef34764822fec208d73ddc4180%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C0%7C637045888514464964&sdata=sl4Dpc%2BPQz4B3OdrEXXePyX7qKTo9bRe1vcQ8CqGkdc%3D&reserved=0> List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.re-wrenches.org%2Fetiquette.htm&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7Ca0cd26ef34764822fec208d73ddc4180%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C0%7C637045888514464964&sdata=GSwuvSQ72c88l9cK7K0leWizv5vqdgJEpqneA7uejFc%3D&reserved=0> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.members.re-wrenches.org&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7Ca0cd26ef34764822fec208d73ddc4180%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C0%7C637045888514474957&sdata=%2BOEsTp5zxLfeqPGoYOFWnSUWSqfTelfvHcsVhGn3ngM%3D&reserved=0>
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