Without contradicting anything anyone has said already on this subject, what has not yet been factored into this discussion is that the Jews were buying land in Palestine like mad from the 1880s so that by the time of partition in 1948 they actually legally owned most of the land in the areas that the United nations team suggested shoudl form the new Jewish state.
The Jews had legally and without coercion acquired the land from the people who had hitherto legally owned it under the land ownership system operating in the land. Certainly other land came after the Palestinians fled follwing the Arab Israeli wars but a large area of Israel had been purchased by the Jews. Of course the issue of the creation of a nation based on ownership of land is another issue but, apart from any other issue driving teh creation of Israel,the murderous warfare between Jews and Arab that had been going on with increasing intensity in Palestine since at least the 1920s did suggest some form of partition Garth Cartledge > > From: "(ARTEMIS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 16/11/2004 1:46:07 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [rhetoric-list] Fundamental Rights > > > > > > On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, donnella whitacre wrote: > > > > > you missed nothing. these people were only one of many living there. it > > was part of the ottoman empire. they didn't own the land any more than > > any one else living there for centuries and are no more entitled to it > > all than any one else. and certainly lets show respect for every one > > instead of just the one portion that already has over 80% of it. > > Consider this: > > Are you referring to commons or to private property? What is a village? > > Land deeds are legal constructs which began with land grants by the > throne. For example, and land in Florida was given to the U.S. by Spain > and then acquired by individuals. An abtract of deed would show the chain > of ownership. That is the legal chain of ownership. Towns and cities were > acquired as commons from the state. > > In the area called Israel and Palestine the villages and lands belonged to > a sovereign, which for centuries was the Ottomans, but it doesn't make > much sense to tell someone who lived there during that time that they > cannot continue with the quiet enjoyment of the land their family lived on > and farmed for their own collective use perhaps contributing some taxes to > the sovereign for their security (which is why taxes were paid) but > protection did not imply real ownership. There was no fee simple, few > deeds of title. Ownership was proved by possession. Simply because the > sovereign made the mistake of an alliance with the wrong power in a war > and losing it's hegemony does not alter the fact of possession, ergo: > ownership (you have heard that possession is 9/10s of the law). > > When the sovereign is defeated does that then mean the ownership of the > land is up for grabs? What do you think the moral justification could be > for taking that land from the people who lived there and raised their > families there? This is not a difficult problem. There is none - no matter > how badly the people who take that land may have been treated by others > somewhere else - on some other continent - and how despised they have been > because of the prejudices of a religion (call it Christianity) which > taught that the Jews killed Christ. > > There has been a grave injustice to the original inhabitants. How is that > injustice going to be addressed? And it would be infinitely better for the > Jews to realize they have more in common with their Muslim cousins than > their Christian hosts for the last 2,000 years. > > Hank Roth > > > > > > ----- > / o o \ > ===OO=====OO============================================= > (4)Portals (2)News Wikis (2)Conferences - No BuSHIT! > Start here: http://pnews.org/ (On Internet since 1982) > http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) > http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) > ========================================================= > FIGHT THE RIGHT! > ================== > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/XgSolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ----- / o o \ ===OO=====OO============================================= (4)Portals (2)News Wikis (2)Conferences - No BuSHIT! Start here: http://pnews.org/ (On Internet since 1982) http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) ========================================================= FIGHT THE RIGHT! ================== Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rhetoric-list/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
