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What a narrow, provincial, and entirely illogical assesment of the situation in Israel. First of all it certainly makes much more sense (to me anyway) to lay blame to fundamentalism and its "take no prisoners attitude" all the way around, than to take a "poor little Israel against the cruel world" approach. For one thing, you're outnumbered, and while that may appeal to some peoples self serving sense of histrionics and martyrdom, it is a losing proposition. Second, history, Jewish or otherwise, doesn't pivot on the holocaust. Nazi Germanys cruel coldblooded murder of six /nine/ thirteen million innocents can never be avenged; and even though, of all the genocidal mass murders in recorded history, it takes the cake for sheer malevolence and evil, it is neither the most recent nor the most deadly. http://www.rkba.org/research/jpfo/lethal-laws.reviewed.nyls Have Jews in general been targeted historically wherever they have lived in the world since the diaspora? Yes, as far as I know. Is there a single reason? Maybe, but I doubt very much that it has anything to do with "we're just smarter and more succesful than anybody else" [although that attitude alone would get you killed in some of the neighborhoods I've lived in, regardless of ethnicity] and probably more to do with maintaining a visible minority identity in places that had no scruples about murdering those who were differrent. In fact, that behaviour is going on as we speak in many places in the world today, most notably Africa. It is not a uniquely Jewish problem; its just that Jews have persisted, and kept going from one place to another, looking for a peaceful homeland, which itself has created a unique historical phenomenon among all the minorities in the world. The question is, is Israel that homeland? Zionists believe it is; some Orthodox jews believe emphatically that it is not, at this time in any case. http://www.nkusa.org/index.cfm It can certainly be argued that present day Israel was created whole from a combination of the aspirations of groups of primarily european Ashkenazi Jews, which predate the Nazi holocaust by a good 200 years, and the postwar anti semitism and gross colonialism of the US, England, France, and to a lesser extent, Soviet Russia. http://www.mideastweb.org/britzion.htm Has it been a good marriage? History is busy judging that right now. What do I think? I think that for the cost in lives and money, New Jersey could be the real garden state; but that's not the issue is it? What it boils down to is fundamentalism, pure and simple, and that will be, if any single thing can be, the undoing of life as we know it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 5:51 AM Subject: Re: [RHETORIC] Religious Hate |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Mr. Kent, It is not that I disagree that past Christian anti-Semitism was horrible and long-lived and led to the Holocaust. Any student of history in the least should know that much. What I take issue with is the _comparison_ with Muslim anti-Semitism, which is what Hank's article was about. There is a tenuous link between the two, but in present times it is Muslim anti-Semitism that we are facing now (Mel Gibson and his Dad notwithstanding.) And, IMO, it is the mix of Muslim anti-Semitism and technology that pose the greatest danger to Jews everywhere _today_. As far as killing and revenge killing is concerned I also tend to agree that it truly can lead nowhere for either side, but, and I have posed this question many times over the years, what would you have Israel do? Should she lie down and not defend herself? And if Israel pulled out of the "occupied territories" completely (something I have advocated for years, only to prove a point!) do you honestly believe that attacks against Israel would cease? It is my firm belief that if Israel were to pull back to the pre-1967 borders yesterday, that it would be viewed by Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular as a sign of _weakness_, and that attacks would _increase_ rather than cease. So, might you express what _you_ think Israel's next move should be? And to reiterate, I am firmly against most if not all right wing thought, but in tiny Israel's place with only _one_ real ally (I won't use the term "friend") in the U.S. I, personally cannot see what else Israel should do, other than trying to eliminate her enemies. As much as I abhor violence, I understand that Israel's existence is _paramount_ considering the history of her creation through the lens of the Holocaust. It is my belief that if Israel did not exist Jews everywhere might not either. And considering the percentage of the world's population that calls itself Jewish (approx. 15-17 _million_ out of over 6 billion people!) and also considering the level of violence elsewhere in the world I find the attention given to Israel wholly disproportionate to reality. --- / o o \ PNEWS Topic Specific Portals (Vortals) ===OO=====OO============================================ [1] http://pnews.org/NWO/phpnuke/ (Piss Off George Portal) [2] http://pnews.org/MEP/phpnuke/ (Myth Busters Portal) [3] http://g0lem.net/PHP/phpnuke/ (Insane Planet Portal) [4] http://g0lem.net/HTH/phpnuke/ (Wacko World Portal) [5] http://g0lem.net/AAA/phpnuke/ (Bad-Ass Truth Portal) [6] http://pnews.org/AAA/phpnuke/ (Naked Truth Portal) [7] http://pnews.org/portal/ (PNEWS Portal) [8] http://g0lem.net/portal/ (TheGolemsPortal) ======================================================== \_/ \_/
