Hi, TL;DR I am okay with it as is but it could certainly be better in some places. And my stance may change depending on if it gets changed by feedback from others.
I agree with much of what has been brought up by Benno, Sasha, and others. But I would really like to emphasize that the part about that the CoC should always be applied and the PC (or anyone else including the RIPE Chair) should not have a say in if it should be applied or not. -Cynthia On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 2:06 PM Benno Overeinder <[email protected]> wrote: > > Dear Leo and RIPE Code of Conduct TF, > > Thank you for writing the RIPE Code of Conduct draft. We think it is > concise and very clear. We have some suggestions for textual changes > for the TF's consideration. > > We understand that "wordsmithing" can be a pitfall for progressing a > document, so please consider our email as a sign of support for the > document and the suggestions as improvements. Two points we mention > have already been addressed by Gergana and Sasha, see the comments below. > > > Section Introduction: > > Suggestion: “diversity of views” --> “diversity in views and people” > to appreciate the diversity in attendees. > > > Section Rationale: > > “To help everyone feel safe and included” --> “To make everyone feel > safe and included” > This may look subtle, but “help” suggests that people have some issue or > problem they need to be assisted with, and makes it sound to me like the > problem is with them. Changing this to “make” shifts the burden to the > community rather than the individual. > > > “...a CoC sets clear expectations in terms of how people should behave.” > --> could be more active, e.g.: “...a CoC makes clear how we expect > people to conduct themselves.” or “...a CoC makes clear how we expect > people to behave.” > > > Section Scope: > > “Unofficial social events organised by RIPE Meeting attendees or their > employers within the meeting venue” --> the “within the meeting venue” > seems legalese to us in the sense that it could be said to be within the > responsibility and bailiwick of RIPE. > Given that a CoC is not a legal document, we would say something that is > wider, e.g. “Unofficial social events organised by RIPE Meeting > attendees or their employers within the context and spirit of the > meeting” -- many side events are not in the meeting venue, but they > clearly would not have happened had there not been a RIPE meeting. > > As already mentioned by Gergana in a previous email, why does the PC > have the final say in whether the CoC is applied? The CoC should be > carried by the community and should always apply, not ifs, no buts. > > “This CoC does not apply to events or interactions that are managed by > other organisations or communities.” --> legalese, not needed, this is > self evident, because the inclusive scope of the CoC is clearly defined > at the start. Legalese does not belong in a CoC, it is not a contract. > > > Section People and Organisations Bound and Protected by the Code: > > Making a list of people the CoC applies to is risky, since such a list > can never be complete. Why have a list at all? Make it simpler: “This > CoC equally applies to participants in the RIPE community, officers of > the RIPE community and RIPE NCC staff members.” > > > Section CoC and National Law: > > “The CoC Team or RIPE NCC staff may relay the report or make their own > if necessary.” --> the last part “or make their own if necessary”, no > matter how well-intended, incurs the risk of a serious breach of trust. > This has also been argued by Sasha in an earlier email, and we fully > endorse Sasha's wording in this regard. > > We realise this is a point that may lead to a lot of discussion, we > would strongly advocate that anyone who acts in a role of trust w.r.t. > this CoC be properly and regularly trained to deal with this kind of > situation. > > > Regards, > > Roland van Rijswijk-Deij > Benno Overeinder > > > On 18/03/2021 18:21, Leo Vegoda wrote: > > Dear RIPE community, > > > > There has been relatively little feedback on ths draft Code of Conduct > > so far. We would be grateful if you could share any comments on the > > RIPE Discussion > > List by Friday, 2 April 2021. We welcome suggested changes, but if you > > don’t see problems with the draft then statements of support are also > > helpful. The RIPE Chair Team will evaluate your comments and determine > > whether there is consensus on this draft or additional work is needed. > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Leo Vegoda > > On behalf of the RIPE Code of Conduct TF > > > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 5:02 AM Leo Vegoda <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Dear RIPE community, > >> > >> An updated draft RIPE Code of Conduct (CoC) is now published for your > >> review. As this is intended to cover all participation within RIPE, it > >> applies to interactions over the Internet, mailing lists, as well as > >> in-person at RIPE Meetings. > >> > >> You can find the document here: > >> > >> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-documents/other-documents/ripe-code-of-conduct/ > >> > >> This draft keeps most of the text in v3.0[1], which was developed by > >> the RIPE Diversity TF. It also draws from CoCs that are in use in > >> other communities, including the Python CoC[2]. The biggest change is > >> that the updated draft covers scope and behaviour only. It doesn’t > >> touch on process or the CoC Team – these aspects will be addressed in > >> two separate documents that are still to come. > >> > >> Please review the draft and share any comments on the RIPE Discussion > >> List by Friday, 2 April 2021. We welcome suggested changes, but if you > >> don’t see problems with the draft then statements of support are also > >> helpful. The RIPE Chair Team will evaluate your comments and determine > >> whether there is consensus on this draft or additional work is needed. > >> > >> While we would prefer comments to be shared on the RIPE Discussion > >> List, we recognise that some people might have feedback that they > >> would like to share in private. If you want to provide feedback in > >> private you can contact members of the CoC TF or the RIPE Chair Team > >> directly. > >> > >> Some key changes in this version: > >> > >> - The goal of “a neutral, transparent and open framework for report > >> handling” has been removed and will be covered in the upcoming > >> document that describes process. > >> - The scope is defined as “all participation in RIPE.” > >> - Groups and events with separate governance from RIPE may adopt this > >> CoC but will need to manage their own implementation. > >> - A new section covers how the CoC relates to national law. > >> - A new section lists desired behaviours along with an updated list of > >> unacceptable behaviours. - Both lists are arranged alphabetically, to > >> avoid suggesting a hierarchy. > >> > >> We look forward to reading your thoughts on the current draft. > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> > >> Leo Vegoda > >> On behalf of the RIPE Code of Conduct TF > >> > >> [1] RIPE Meeting Code of Conduct 3.0 - Draft > >> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/ripe-meetings/ripe-meeting-code-of-conduct-3-0-draft > >> [2] Python Community Code of Conduct https://www.python.org/psf/conduct/ > > > > -- > Benno J. Overeinder > NLnet Labs > https://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
