Hi Dan, I'm in the position of evaluating introducing new (to us) technology. In order to introduce it, I want to see signs of health. I can only assume that you are in this position as well in your new job. The roadmap is just a logical starting point. It seems to be if not thee - one of the first things people check when looking at an open source up start. Perhaps I am harping on that too much so I'll stop. But look at the state of it right now: http://incubator.apache.org/river/roadmap.html This sends a message to people (I think).
And it isn't necessarily fair, but I think that something like Jini/JavaSpaces has an even tougher road ahead of it because it has been around for 10 years. It isn't some brand new project. People expect more perhaps because they are used to (I presume) Sun Marketing etc. And sadly, Jini/JavaSpaces didn't ever "make it" into the mainstream (compared to J2EE) so it has a certain perception amongst people outside of the community. You know this better than anyone. When the project has been around for 5 months and these things still are not in place I wonder and grow concerned. Perhaps others won't. My point is don't make it easy for them to ignore/write off Jini/JavaSpaces. I think that I am the minority here in that I represent potential growth of the Jini/JavaSpaces community. I am just trying to give you my perspective. I assume that I represent part of the whole point of bringing Jini/JavaSpaces to Apache - to grow the community? I harp on the Roadmap, but I'm really talking about everything. The quickest way to show life IMHO is to get a couple things on the roadmap and get those .1, .2 releases done (maybe that is the only thing on the roadmap for now). Outside of getting something called River released and getting the standard processes going, I'm interested in seeing a simplification of Jini/JavaSpaces. 1. Someone else mentioned this, but forget the installer, just unzip / untar (take a look at Tangosol or GridGain - it is dirt simple) Yes on Maven, Ivy, etc. 2. Configuration - simplify it into a property file or at least provide that as the default (again Tangolos/GridGain are different, but they are simple to set up) 3. Logging - get rid of sys.out, use log4j (I vaguely remember that somewhere) Anyway, I want this to be successful and will help where I can. Cheers, Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dan Creswell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Short term plan forward... (proposal) Hi Mike, I'm happy for you to wade in - more external feedback the better. My current concern is that at the moment you seem to be saying not much more than "Bad River, do stuff, be there". Is that actually all you want or are there specific things you expect from River? Those things mightn't be roadmap stuff, they might be something else. In fact, there's a question - why do you want a roadmap? What does that mean to you? Is it some kind of symbol of longevity or maybe a hint of some planning/forethought that makes you feel comfortable or something else? Dan. Herrick, Mike wrote: > Mark, > > I will try to be more constructive in my criticism in the future. > River so far has just been confusing to watch. As someone new to the > community, this is discouraging. > > I did mention the same criticism you can find on my blog months ago on > this list (was more positive then). We just hit a point in our project > where the future looked too bleak that we didn't feel like we could > continue to invest in this technology. I now have a little hope, but > we will only pick things back up once it is clear that River is on a > good track. > > I don't have a vote, but I like Jim Hurley's suggestion for a plan. > Those are nice baby steps that will get things going. Any of the > follow on stuff can just be .4, .5. .6 or whatever. > > In terms of what I can do to help - I can do some grunt work of some > sort to start. If you have an idea let me know, otherwise I'll keep an > eye out. > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Brouwer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 12:31 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Short term plan forward... (proposal) > > Herrick, Mike wrote: >> Whatever is done, get it on the roadmap. Get a 12 month roadmap. >> Start > >> acting like a project that has a chance at making it as a poddling. > > Hello Mike, > > It is hard not to miss the criticism here and in the blogosphere with > regard to Jini and the Apache River project. Therefore I do have a > remark (I just picked your posting so don't take it too personally). > > "And so, my fellow Apache River friends, ask not what the project can > do for you; ask what you can do for the project." > > I say this as although it is indeed unfortunate to realize how long it > took for the code to arrive, sometimes I also have the feeling some > people think we are here to fulfill their wishes for which they even > have a hard time to make them public. > > I have no problem with criticism as it is often a healthy way to get > you out of your comfort zone, at the same time I also think there is a > limit to it. This project will only become a success and graduate if > we are able to collect new committers who want to backup their wishes > with effort. I realize for a large part that will depend on our > guidance/openness and atmosphere we create here, but equally important > are the ideas and will to contribute by those prospects. > > Asking for a roadmap is logical and fine, but so is suggesting ideas > for that roadmap as it might well turn out that if nobody comes up > with ideas and did some thinking how that fits in with the current > investments/installed base it might well turn out that it ain't the > Big-Bang some of you might be hoping for, while at the same time > significant work is performed that is only perceived by others as > 'maintenance'. > > This posting is not intended to shut people up, the contrary, but I > hope we can get a collaborative atmosphere here even while at some > moment you want to put the other in the drying machine because of > his/her opinion > ;-) > -- > Mark >
