Dear Bimal, You sent this blank mail to RTI_India group. What am I do do with it ? Is it some sort of "silent protest" or is it "work in progress" ? Ours is a very democratic group (in fact the most democratic RTI group) where freedom of speech (and non-speech) is fiercely respected and defended. Unfortunately, the group is also Moderated by Hitlers (me ad another).
Thanks Sarbajit --- In [email protected], "Bimal Khemani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 C K Jam wrote : > >Dear Mr Sarabjit, > > > >Please do not misunderstand my earlier post. > >I am nobody to decide what is to be posted and what is not. > > > >Since I joined voluntarily (after your acceptance of my request) there is no question of my being troubled by what is being posted. I just read the posts in the last few days and was wondering - where have I landed up ? > > > >Well, I sincerely hope that it will be a enriching experience for me and I can contribute something positive. I will just have to get used to ignoring all non RTI related posts. > > > >Now to your surprise quiz question: > > > >For example YOU could explain why information is > > ordinarily to be given by the department which "generates" it. > > > >The department which "generates" the information is the "custodian" of that information. Therefore, under Section 6(1), an applicant should ordinarily make a request for information to the PIO of the PA (Public Authority) which is custodian of the information. Explaining at a more basic level, there is no point in applying to the PIO of the Regional Passport Office and asking how many Industrial Power connections have been given in a particular area over the last 6 months ! > > > >However, sometimes, the drafters of laws and acts in India shower some tender mercies on us poor citizens. Either by design or by intent or by oversight, they have incorporated Sec 6(3) into the RTI Act, under which it is obligatory for the recipient PIO to transfer either the full or a part of the application, which covers a subject which pertains to another public authority. This has to be done within 5 days of receiving the application and under intimation to the applicant. > > > >Sir, pass or fail ? Please tell me the grade. I am eagerly waiting because the last time I received a grade card was 28 years ago ! Really miss that suspense and excitement. > > > >=========== > > > >Now, back to the question of the office of the Finance Minister in Kerala. > > > >RTI Act 2005 covers "Public Authorities" as defined in Sec 2(h) of the Act. > > > >Sec 2(h)(a) states: > > > >h)"public authority" means any authority or body or institution of self- government established or constituted— a)by or under the Constitution; > >The office of the Minister has been established under the constitution so it squarely falls under Sec 2(h)(a) quoted above. It is immaterial for the purposes of the RTI Act, whether that Public Authority generates information or keeps records. That issue will only be addressed when a application is made and the PIO can then very well say that either he does not have the information and is transferring under Sec 6(3) or is using Sec 5(4) and 5(5) to secure the information requested form some other officer in the PA. > > > >For a moment let us agree with the stand taken by the KIC that the office of the Minister does not generate any information or keep any records. Then, can I ask what are all those dozens of officers and staff doing in that office ? I suppose they are reading the Bhagwad Gita in the office, just like the Jt. Commissioner of Income Tax whom I have to visit very so often (yes, strange but true !). Nothing wrong with the reading the Bhagwad Gita, but please do not do it on tax payers money and time. > > > >Doesn't that office of the Minister have at least a attendance register ? Doesn't it have a appointments diary for the Minister ? Doesn't it have a inward and outward register ? Doesn't it have the log book of the Minister's official car ? All those are "records" as defined in the RTI Act and any citizen can ask for those records under the RTI Act. > > > >Please do not give me any benefit of doubt and treat me as a novice or still better a RTI idiot (wow, a new term). Maybe whatever I said before is all bullshit. But what about the following argument : > > > >Let's agree with KIC that the Finance department PIO can be requested for information pertaining to the Minister's office. That means KIC agrees that at least the Finance Department is a PA. Then, under Sec 5(1), the Finance Department is supposed to appoint PIO's in ALL administrative offices or units under it. So, since the office of the Minister is a unit of the original PA, it should have a PIO or at least a APIO. > > > >Lastly, I wish to draw your attention to the attached order of the CIC. Order in Appeal Nr. CIC/WB/C/2006/00167. If the offices of the CM and Ministers of Delhi can be considered to be PA's by CIC and ordered to appoint PIO's and AA's, then what is so different with the office of the Finance Minister of Kerala ? After all the RTI Act is same all over India (except J & K). > > > >As you can see, the CIC order is dated 15 September 2006, but the website of Delhi Government ( http://www.delhigovt.nic.in/rti/search_pio.asp ) still shows a PIO/AA only in the office of the CM and no information is available regarding PIO/AA in the office of other Ministers. Speaks volumes of respecting and obeying decisions of a "quasi-judicial" authority. As you probably know, we Indians (including you and me) suffer from a strange disease called " diarrhea of words and constipation of action". > > > >Quiz on the "bounce" (by a RTI idiot) > > > >Can Property Returns filed by "Government servants" be disclosed under RTI ? > > > >Regards, > >RTIWanted > > > > > > > > > > > >sroy1947 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Mr.Jam, > > > > This is your Moderator speaking. I sincerely regret that you are > > troubled by the messages posted at RTI_India - India's most notorious > > RTI Yahoo group. > > > > Firstly, as per the Rules of this group - self publicity (especially > > by advocates) is not allowed. Some of the old members like Ashish are > > alert and vocal about such things. Previously they used to email me > > privately and sound off, nowadays these things are coming out in the > > open. Anticipating our senior members, I had myself drawn attention > > (subtly I thought - to the Parivartan tag in DJJ's post) but I was > > proved wrong. > > > > Secondly, I dont unlist anyone from the group - this is the age of > > self service, you can easily do so yourself (search the old messages > > of our group to find out how). > > > > Thirdly, our RTI group is meant for ordinary citizens. We are unique > > insofar as having many PIOs and FAAs (like Ashish) here to assist you. > > Stick around, maybe you could enjoy yourself and contribute for > > everyone's benefit. For example YOU could explain why information is > > ordinarily to be given by the department which "generates" it. > > > > Sarbajit > > > > --- In [email protected], C K Jam <rtiwanted@> wrote: > > > > > > Moderator/Owner, > > > > > > Is this group about RTI or about Parivartan (I do not even know who > > they are) ? > > > > > > I am a ordinary citizen and just joined two days ago after the > > moderator approved my request for membership. > > > > > > All I have seen till now are postings about Parivartan, Foreign > > Funding and snide remarks directed at each other. > > > > > > I am sorry, but I joined to learn more about RTI, not about > > Parivartan, the funding by CIA and KGB and MI6 ! > > > > > > Moderator, I request you to please delist me from this group for the > > above mentioned reason. > > > > > > Thanks & Best Wishes > > > RTIWanted > > > > > > > > > ashish kr1965 <ashishkr1965@> wrote: > > This is a curious statement by Parivartan's advocate. > > > > > > > ". I would also like to inform you that Parivartan does not take > > > > any foreign funding as a matter of policy. Human Rights Law > > > > Network also does not give any funds to Parivartan." > > > > > > Parivartan by their own admission and accounts accepts foreign funds. > > > > > > Mr. Arvind Kejriwal contributes US$200 on 13.11.2006. > > > In the same year US residents send over US$1000. > > > > > > Mr. Arvind Kejriwal regularly finances the organisation to tune of > > lakhs > > > of rupees - his full sources of finance are not in public domain. > > He also > > > publicly accepts foreign funds from MI-6 and CIA front organisations > > > like bogus DFID, Asoka awards and Magsaysay awards - all in Foreign > > exchange. > > > > > > Previously funds to Parivartan were audited (as it was a registered > > Society), > > > ever since Mr.Kejriwal got famous, the funds are his (and Manish's) > > alone to > > > control and all the honest and dedicated workers from old days have > > > abandoned these two. > > > > > > This message is on the basis of unrebutted information in the > > public domain. > > > Perhaps the Parivartan advocate and members of this group would > > care to clarify. > > > > > > Ashish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > > Try it now. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > BIMAL KUMAR KHEMANI > Saha-Prant Sangathan Mantri, > AKHIL BHARATIYA GRAHAK PANCHAYAT BRAJ PRANT, > 2/40D, Janakpuri, Marrish Road, > ALIGARH-202001. INDIA > Phone:0571-2401557, MOB:-093597BIMAL > e.mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
