Deare Sarbajit I am really very sorry, due to some technical problem at my end this was happened, which caused some problem to you. Once again feeling sorry . Â
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 sroy1947 wrote : >Dear Bimal, > >You sent this blank mail to RTI_India group. What am I do do with it ? >Is it some sort of "silent protest" or is it "work in progress" ? Ours >is a very democratic group (in fact the most democratic RTI group) >where freedom of speech (and non-speech) is fiercely respected and >defended. Unfortunately, the group is also Moderated by Hitlers (me ad >another). > >Thanks > >Sarbajit > >--- In [email protected], "Bimal Khemani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 C K Jam wrote : > > >Dear Mr Sarabjit, > > > > > >Please do not misunderstand my earlier post. > > >I am nobody to decide what is to be posted and what is not. > > > > > >Since I joined voluntarily (after your acceptance of my request) >there is no question of my being troubled by what is being posted. I >just read the posts in the last few days and was wondering - where >have I landed up ? > > > > > >Well, I sincerely hope that it will be a enriching experience for >me and I can contribute something positive. I will just have to get >used to ignoring all non RTI related posts. > > > > > >Now to your surprise quiz question: > > > > > >For example YOU could explain why information is > > > ordinarily to be given by the department which "generates" it. > > > > > >The department which "generates" the information is the "custodian" >of that information. Therefore, under Section 6(1), an applicant >should ordinarily make a request for information to the PIO of the PA >(Public Authority) which is custodian of the information. Explaining >at a more basic level, there is no point in applying to the PIO of the >Regional Passport Office and asking how many Industrial Power >connections have been given in a particular area over the last 6 months ! > > > > > >However, sometimes, the drafters of laws and acts in India shower >some tender mercies on us poor citizens. Either by design or by intent >or by oversight, they have incorporated Sec 6(3) into the RTI Act, >under which it is obligatory for the recipient PIO to transfer either >the full or a part of the application, which covers a subject which >pertains to another public authority. This has to be done within 5 >days of receiving the application and under intimation to the applicant. > > > > > >Sir, pass or fail ? Please tell me the grade. I am eagerly waiting >because the last time I received a grade card was 28 years ago ! >Really miss that suspense and excitement. > > > > > >=========== > > > > > >Now, back to the question of the office of the Finance Minister in >Kerala. > > > > > >RTI Act 2005 covers "Public Authorities" as defined in Sec 2(h) of >the Act. > > > > > >Sec 2(h)(a) states: > > > > > >h)"public authority" means any authority or body or institution of >self- government established or constituted— a)by or under the >Constitution; > > >The office of the Minister has been established under the >constitution so it squarely falls under Sec 2(h)(a) quoted above. It >is immaterial for the purposes of the RTI Act, whether that Public >Authority generates information or keeps records. That issue will only >be addressed when a application is made and the PIO can then very well >say that either he does not have the information and is transferring >under Sec 6(3) or is using Sec 5(4) and 5(5) to secure the information >requested form some other officer in the PA. > > > > > >For a moment let us agree with the stand taken by the KIC that the >office of the Minister does not generate any information or keep any >records. Then, can I ask what are all those dozens of officers and >staff doing in that office ? I suppose they are reading the Bhagwad >Gita in the office, just like the Jt. Commissioner of Income Tax whom >I have to visit very so often (yes, strange but true !). Nothing wrong >with the reading the Bhagwad Gita, but please do not do it on tax >payers money and time. > > > > > >Doesn't that office of the Minister have at least a attendance >register ? Doesn't it have a appointments diary for the Minister ? >Doesn't it have a inward and outward register ? Doesn't it have the >log book of the Minister's official car ? All those are "records" as >defined in the RTI Act and any citizen can ask for those records under >the RTI Act. > > > > > >Please do not give me any benefit of doubt and treat me as a novice >or still better a RTI idiot (wow, a new term). Maybe whatever I said >before is all bullshit. But what about the following argument : > > > > > >Let's agree with KIC that the Finance department PIO can be >requested for information pertaining to the Minister's office. That >means KIC agrees that at least the Finance Department is a PA. Then, >under Sec 5(1), the Finance Department is supposed to appoint PIO's in >ALL administrative offices or units under it. So, since the office of >the Minister is a unit of the original PA, it should have a PIO or at >least a APIO. > > > > > >Lastly, I wish to draw your attention to the attached order of the >CIC. Order in Appeal Nr. CIC/WB/C/2006/00167. If the offices of the CM >and Ministers of Delhi can be considered to be PA's by CIC and ordered >to appoint PIO's and AA's, then what is so different with the office >of the Finance Minister of Kerala ? After all the RTI Act is same all >over India (except J & K). > > > > > >As you can see, the CIC order is dated 15 September 2006, but the >website of Delhi Government ( >http://www.delhigovt.nic.in/rti/search_pio.asp ) still shows a PIO/AA >only in the office of the CM and no information is available regarding >PIO/AA in the office of other Ministers. Speaks volumes of respecting >and obeying decisions of a "quasi-judicial" authority. As you probably >know, we Indians (including you and me) suffer from a strange disease >called " diarrhea of words and constipation of action". > > > > > >Quiz on the "bounce" (by a RTI idiot) > > > > > >Can Property Returns filed by "Government servants" be disclosed >under RTI ? > > > > > >Regards, > > >RTIWanted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >sroy1947 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Mr.Jam, > > > > > > This is your Moderator speaking. I sincerely regret that you are > > > troubled by the messages posted at RTI_India - India's most notorious > > > RTI Yahoo group. > > > > > > Firstly, as per the Rules of this group - self publicity (especially > > > by advocates) is not allowed. Some of the old members like Ashish are > > > alert and vocal about such things. Previously they used to email me > > > privately and sound off, nowadays these things are coming out in the > > > open. Anticipating our senior members, I had myself drawn attention > > > (subtly I thought - to the Parivartan tag in DJJ's post) but I was > > > proved wrong. > > > > > > Secondly, I dont unlist anyone from the group - this is the age of > > > self service, you can easily do so yourself (search the old messages > > > of our group to find out how). > > > > > > Thirdly, our RTI group is meant for ordinary citizens. We are unique > > > insofar as having many PIOs and FAAs (like Ashish) here to assist >you. > > > Stick around, maybe you could enjoy yourself and contribute for > > > everyone's benefit. For example YOU could explain why information is > > > ordinarily to be given by the department which "generates" it. > > > > > > Sarbajit > > > > > > --- In [email protected], C K Jam <rtiwanted@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Moderator/Owner, > > > > > > > > Is this group about RTI or about Parivartan (I do not even know who > > > they are) ? > > > > > > > > I am a ordinary citizen and just joined two days ago after the > > > moderator approved my request for membership. > > > > > > > > All I have seen till now are postings about Parivartan, Foreign > > > Funding and snide remarks directed at each other. > > > > > > > > I am sorry, but I joined to learn more about RTI, not about > > > Parivartan, the funding by CIA and KGB and MI6 ! > > > > > > > > Moderator, I request you to please delist me from this group >for the > > > above mentioned reason. > > > > > > > > Thanks & Best Wishes > > > > RTIWanted > > > > > > > > > > > > ashish kr1965 <ashishkr1965@> wrote: > > > This is a curious statement by Parivartan's advocate. > > > > > > > > > ". I would also like to inform you that Parivartan does not take > > > > > any foreign funding as a matter of policy. Human Rights Law > > > > > Network also does not give any funds to Parivartan." > > > > > > > > Parivartan by their own admission and accounts accepts foreign >funds. > > > > > > > > Mr. Arvind Kejriwal contributes US$200 on 13.11.2006. > > > > In the same year US residents send over US$1000. > > > > > > > > Mr. Arvind Kejriwal regularly finances the organisation to tune of > > > lakhs > > > > of rupees - his full sources of finance are not in public domain. > > > He also > > > > publicly accepts foreign funds from MI-6 and CIA front >organisations > > > > like bogus DFID, Asoka awards and Magsaysay awards - all in >Foreign > > > exchange. > > > > > > > > Previously funds to Parivartan were audited (as it was a >registered > > > Society), > > > > ever since Mr.Kejriwal got famous, the funds are his (and >Manish's) > > > alone to > > > > control and all the honest and dedicated workers from old days >have > > > > abandoned these two. > > > > > > > > This message is on the basis of unrebutted information in the > > > public domain. > > > > Perhaps the Parivartan advocate and members of this group would > > > care to clarify. > > > > > > > > Ashish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > > > Try it now. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > BIMAL KUMAR KHEMANI > > Saha-Prant Sangathan Mantri, > > AKHIL BHARATIYA GRAHAK PANCHAYAT BRAJ PRANT, > > 2/40D, Janakpuri, Marrish Road, > > ALIGARH-202001. INDIA > > Phone:0571-2401557, MOB:-093597BIMAL > > e.mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > BIMAL KUMAR KHEMANI Saha-Prant Sangathan Mantri, AKHIL BHARATIYA GRAHAK PANCHAYAT BRAJ PRANT, 2/40D, Janakpuri, Marrish Road, ALIGARH-202001. INDIA Phone:0571-2401557, MOB:-093597BIMAL e.mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
