Well... I don't know how to say this so I'll just blurt it out. John, it's great that you and Michael want everything on your layout to be as perfectly "in scale" as practical. When many of us were younger we intended the same thing. Unfortunately, it ain't gonna' happen. Not in your lifetime or the lifetimes that follow. There will ALWAYS be shortcomings and compromises in model railroading that MUST be accepted or dealt with... OR one will NEVER have enough stuff completed to actually have meaningful layout operation and experience that avenue of fun the hobby offers. Model railroading, on ANY LEVEL is a "gnats and camels" thing.
It's not that you "scale-only above all else" guys don't have a right to model however you want to model... it's the way it's SAID that rubs people the wrong way and could possibly be counter-productive to your philosophy. That is, IF you want people to be sympathetic to your stance, and possibly support your view and/or jump on your bandwagon. I mean, come on... I'll lift a few quotes from Mr. Ostertags post and let them speak for themselves... "This argument that "good enough should be good enough" is crap!" "If I am going to pay $80, 90 more for a car, then it better damn well be accurate right down to the last bolt." "This argument about remembering where we came from, is crap too." These are just a few examples. In my opinion, the tone of the entire post was confrontational, condescending, and actually... rather juvenille. Frankly, I wouldn't give a hoot if Mr. Ostertag runs back to HO and models himself to scale nirvana. Somehow, I suspect that S scale will survive in some form without him. Speaking of which, we've all read about Mr. Ostertag's superlative modeling standards... but never see pictures of his efforts? DO the "scale only above all else" guys actually model... or just pound keyboards and rant that things aren't perfect? Look, it's just that (for whatever reason) it seems that for many, model railroading is taken WAY TOO SERIOUSLY for a "hobby". It really is unbelievable the level of angst and downright anger that is posted almost weekly about some topic here, as well as other model railroad forums/etc. For me, model railroading is only a very small segment of my many interests. I frequent forums dedicated to my other interests. You know what? Model railroading seems to be the ONLY hobby interest I have in that the enthusiasts are SO disgruntled and fuss/fight amongst themselves to the degree we see here weekly and at other model railroad venues. WHY is model railroading such a "BFD"?? Why can't it just be fun, and we interact with others of similar persuasions (S scale in this case) and glean the good to be had from all? Why do "holy wars" have to take place and all this other nonsense that goes on? And no, most such "discussions" are NOT "good natured banter" among friends. Instead, it is geniunely confrontational, and seems to contain geniune ANGER. Over what? Toy trains? Wow... what has gone wrong with a person's hobby that it creates such feelings? I don't model much anymore. I'm very busy, and I have other interests that compete. Right now, model railroading isn't as much "fun" as it used to be. I still have a hope that "someday" it will be as fun as it used to be, but it's not now. So, I watch from the sidelines, enjoy some interaction/camadarderie of those of similar persuasions, and perhaps "one of these days" I'll indulge again. However, I still like to talk trains (to a degree). Model railroading has been good for me over the decades. In fact, some of my best life-long friends came from within the hobby of being interested in trains. But I gotta' admit... NONE of them have such militant attitudes and anger about the hobby as I see exhibited on this list. You guys that take this WAY too seriously REALLY need to lighten up and try to rediscover just WHY you think model railroading is "fun". If you can't come up with reasons that puts a smile on your face instead of a frown... it may not be the hobby for you anymore. Go find something else to do and spare those that still try to enjoy the hobby. Sincerely, Andre Ming ----- Original Message ----- From: John Degnan To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 5:12 PM Subject: Re: {S-Scale List} The State of S Scale AMEN preacher Michael. Finally... someone with a grip on reality. Welcome to Club Reality... your membership badge in the "I'm hated by nearly everyone in S scale" club is on it's way! I've said it before and I'll say it again - My interest in S scale was due solely to the scale appearance of SHS' models... not because of a pretty paint schemes slapped on a AF configured model. And I, as a representative of my age group, am a sign of the times! I am not going to dare to try and tell SHS or AM how they should build/configure their models. But I am saying that the choice that Lionel has made on how to configure their new offerings is not going to make an ounce of difference in the popularity of S scale in the model railroading world! Start the membership counter now, and come back a year from now and tell me how many newcomers to this scale there are, and how many of those came into S because of Lionel's line. I've said my peace. 'Nuff said. John Degnan [email protected] [email protected] There, Ed... are you happier with bold, underlined text instead of all CAPS? ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 08:55 AM Subject: {S-Scale List} The State of S Scale I've been reading a lot of the posts on here the past several days about where we are and where we came from etc. I can't believe how narrow minded the majority of the guys in here are. Not narrow gauge minded either. This is 2012 NOT 1962, 72, etc...! This argument that "good enough should be good enough" is crap! This scale needs to begin to attract NEW modelers to it. If you want S Scale to continue to be the good ole boys club that it's been for the past 50 years than it will die! The AF guys need to begin to understand that the future of any scale is in scale modeling. If it weren't for guys like Jim King we wouldn't have any new stuff coming out right now. AM and SHS need update their catalogs and start coming out with new models that reflect what is wanted in the hobby NOW! Not from 40 years ago, or 20 years ago, but NOW! I'm soon to be 42 years old and I am on the bottom of the age scale in S scale. I am a SCALE MODELER NOT A TOY TRAIN COLLECTOR! If I am going to pay $80, 90 more for a car, then it better damn well be accurate right down to the last bolt. If I am going to pay $300 or more for an engine, it better not have a swinging pilot that I can "modify" to make it not do that, it better be exactly the way the prototype is. "Good enough" isn't good enough anymore. This argument about remembering where we came from, is crap too. Technology and other modern advances, like laser cutting, have made it a lot easier to produce models in scale and be more precise. You didn't have that stuff back then. Back then you had to create and build what you wanted. However, with that said, because of the pigion hole that S scale is in with manufacturers it's still that way to a degree. Maybe not the the degree that it was 20 years ago or more, but it's still there. The scale is viewed as a TOY! That's evedent by Lionel's offerings in S. They all look like toys, not scale models. Enough with the 6 axle crap too. SD60's and U33C's are not going to attract anyone to the hobby. GP38-2's, GP40's, Switch engines etc. are what is needed. Things that people can see every day right now. The SD70ACe is a joke. If you're going to build something, do it right! I have said it in the past. If this scale is to advance, it needs to do so in SCALE NOT AF. Thanks Mr. Gilbert for making what you did, but I guess we should all still be driving model A's or living in log homes with no running water. The time do advance the scale is now! So come out from under whatever rock you AF guys are under and see the bigger picture here. Michael Ostertag Green Bay, WI
