Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Joost Andrae]

Hi,

increasing row-, column- or table count in Calc must be calculated well 
to fit into a 32 bit application. If memory consumption gets to the 
maximum (4 GB) then the application will crash. AFAIK AOO hasn't yet 
been ported to 64 bit on it's main platform (wntmsci6.pro). Be shure 
that document exchange will work with older versions of this application 
and export filters and their applications will support this as well.


Kind regards, Joost

Am 06.02.2017 um 09:46 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:



From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 8:09 AM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

+1 for tests.

But honestly I would not expect a lot of effect if you are on a modern
machine with 4GB + memory and maybe SSD disks.


This is not a problem, I can use a Thinkpad T40 (Pentium M1,5 Ghz, 512MB RAM, 
120 GB Western Digital HDD).

But the PC I use daily (Fujitsu-Siemens Esprimo P7935) also has only 2 GB of 
RAM, but an SSD.


btw:
Maybe we should also update the hardware requirements listed on our website:
https://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/sys_reqs_aoo41.html



Greetings,
Jörg





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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Jorg Schmidt]

> From: Pedro [mailto:pedro.l...@openmailbox.org] 

> Even if you can increase the number of sheets, the most important 
> question is: does ODF support this?

I would have to check, but I do not violate the LO / TDF against the ODF 
standard.

> Regarding how many sheets: why doesn't AOO let the user 
> decide? 

That's exactly what it's all about.
Even today, Calc files have only 3 tables and it's decision of the user to 
create
more. However, there is a limit (256) to the top, and this limit should be
increased.

> Gnumeric 
> has an option to allow the user to select the number of rows 
> and columns 
> in a sheet (since at least 2011). Why not add that and also allow to 
> select the maximum number of sheets?

That is _exactly_ the point.

Only this is a practical question, because the table number should increase as
soon as possible and if unlimited number does not go immediately is initially 
1024
better than no improvement.

> Of course this would create a spreadsheet file that could 
> only be opened 
> in AOO... 

LO and MS Excel can also open such files ... already today.

> If ODF supports this but other implementers don't, 
> how could 
> users be warned that data is lost when they open the file in 
> any other 
> ODF editor?

It displays a warning, as it is already today in the case AOO.


Greetings,
Jorg
 


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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Pedro]

In case (a), the table number should be increased _in the short term_,
for example to 1024. (more is better, but 1024 would already be a good
value for now)


Even if you can increase the number of sheets, the most important 
question is: does ODF support this?


Regarding how many sheets: why doesn't AOO let the user decide? Gnumeric 
has an option to allow the user to select the number of rows and columns 
in a sheet (since at least 2011). Why not add that and also allow to 
select the maximum number of sheets?


Of course this would create a spreadsheet file that could only be opened 
in AOO... If ODF supports this but other implementers don't, how could 
users be warned that data is lost when they open the file in any other 
ODF editor?


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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org] 

> In looking at AOO source code, I'm finding lots of uses of fixed size 
> arrays. As far as I can tell, there is little use of the STL data 
> structures. I assume this reflects conditions when StarOffice 
> was designed.

I do not know what "use of the STL data" is, but fixed values are something I 
had feared, which can make an increase in the number of tables more difficult.

My request to the developers would be to check and decide whether an increase 
of the table number is possible _in a short term_.

Please distinguish between:
(A) the number of tables can be increased without extensive program changes
(B) to increase the number of tables, comprehensive program changes are 
necessary

In case (a), the table number should be increased _in the short term_, for 
example to 1024. (more is better, but 1024 would already be a good value for 
now)



Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 

> > btw:
> > Maybe we should also update the hardware requirements 
> listed on our website:
> > https://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/sys_reqs_aoo41.html
> 
> please be more specific about what and why you think a change 
> is necessary.
> 
> And please remember it's about the *minimal requirements*, so that 
> OpenOffice can run at all. It doesn't describe a comfortable working 
> flow. ;-)

If this is the scale, then the current values are OK. I thought, however, that 
the "recommended" values would be for optimal working.


greetings,
Jörg


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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Patricia Shanahan]

In looking at AOO source code, I'm finding lots of uses of fixed size 
arrays. As far as I can tell, there is little use of the STL data 
structures. I assume this reflects conditions when StarOffice was designed.



On 2/5/2017 7:42 PM, Jörg Schmidt wrote:



From: Damjan Jovanovic [mailto:dam...@apache.org]



Hopefully, to increase number of sheets, it's just this one-line patch
below that I am busy compiling now. Will let you know if it
works soon.


That would be good if it worked.


But please let us consider:
Are 1024 a reasonable value?
What would be possible at most _in the short_ term?

We have to keep in mind that MS Excel and LO Calc do not have a limit for 
tables anymore and that must be our goal in the long term. (Of course gladly 
synonymous in the short term, but I think this will not be possible)


Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Marcus]

Am 06.02.2017 um 21:13 schrieb Mathias Röllig:

If one creates daily reports at seperate sheets and want to collect the
reports for one year in one document then this enhancement is very
useful.
When do older versions of AOO warn “This document was created with a
newer version? […]”






There is no need for sarcasm. AOO have this warning since years – but I
don't know the mechanism behind. Sometimes I get this message with an
actual version of AOO if I open a document which was created with LO.
OOo2.x/3.x shows this message also for documents which was created with
newer OOo/AOO version. Maybe this message was already introduced in the
StarOffice time.


I don't know such a message. I only know the message that is shown when 
you want to save a .doc file when .odt is more appropriate to prevent 
data loss due to OpenOffice functions that do not exist in MS Word.



And this message was introduced to warn users of possible loss.
I don't know if there is a special document version string or if simply
the AOO version is written into the document. So my question is


Yes, see the "meta:generator" tag in the file "meta.xml". Example:

OpenOffice/4.1.3$Unix 
OpenOffice.org_project/413m1$Build-9783


The same for the ODF version.

Marcus


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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Mathias Röllig]

If one creates daily reports at seperate sheets and want to collect the
reports for one year in one document then this enhancement is very
useful.
When do older versions of AOO warn “This document was created with a
newer version? […]”






There is no need for sarcasm. AOO have this warning since years – but I 
don't know the mechanism behind. Sometimes I get this message with an 
actual version of AOO if I open a document which was created with LO.
OOo2.x/3.x shows this message also for documents which was created with 
newer OOo/AOO version. Maybe this message was already introduced in the 
StarOffice time.

And this message was introduced to warn users of possible loss.
I don't know if there is a special document version string or if simply 
the AOO version is written into the document. So my question is


>> Must the main version number increased for such a change?

to trigger this message? If you know more then please let us know.

Regards, Mathias

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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Marcus]

Am 06.02.2017 um 10:48 schrieb Mathias Röllig:

My patch works :-). I can make 1024 sheets!


If one creates daily reports at seperate sheets and want to collect the
reports for one year in one document then this enhancement is very useful.
When do older versions of AOO warn “This document was created with a




Microsoft is doing this in a much more hard way. Asking the PC if it has 
a 4-Core-CPU. If not, then show user a "Sorry, not below 4 cores" 
message and quits any installation attempt.




We should give the user such a broad hint in a more sensitive way. But 
should keep an eye on our efforts, too.


Suggestion:
Instead of doeing this per document, we can show more general.

When the Online Update function is enabled we can use the online service 
[1] to get the most current version, compare it with the actual running 
one and show a message like "You are running Apache OpenOffice 
$RUN_VERSION. Version $CUR_VERSION is available. An update is suggested 
to be up-to-date again."



newer version? […]” Must the main version number increased for such a
change?


No, much more code needs to be implemented for such a little thing. ;-)

[1] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Update_Service

Marcus


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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Marcus]

Am 06.02.2017 um 09:46 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:



From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 8:09 AM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

+1 for tests.

But honestly I would not expect a lot of effect if you are on a modern
machine with 4GB + memory and maybe SSD disks.


This is not a problem, I can use a Thinkpad T40 (Pentium M1,5 Ghz, 512MB RAM, 
120 GB Western Digital HDD).

But the PC I use daily (Fujitsu-Siemens Esprimo P7935) also has only 2 GB of 
RAM, but an SSD.


btw:
Maybe we should also update the hardware requirements listed on our website:
https://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/sys_reqs_aoo41.html


please be more specific about what and why you think a change is necessary.

And please remember it's about the *minimal requirements*, so that 
OpenOffice can run at all. It doesn't describe a comfortable working 
flow. ;-)


Marcus


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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Mathias Röllig]

My patch works :-). I can make 1024 sheets!



If one creates daily reports at seperate sheets and want to collect the 
reports for one year in one document then this enhancement is very useful.
When do older versions of AOO warn “This document was created with a 
newer version? […]” Must the main version number increased for such a 
change?


Regards, Mathias

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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 8:09 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc
> 
> +1 for tests.
> 
> But honestly I would not expect a lot of effect if you are on a modern
> machine with 4GB + memory and maybe SSD disks.

This is not a problem, I can use a Thinkpad T40 (Pentium M1,5 Ghz, 512MB RAM, 
120 GB Western Digital HDD).

But the PC I use daily (Fujitsu-Siemens Esprimo P7935) also has only 2 GB of 
RAM, but an SSD.


btw:
Maybe we should also update the hardware requirements listed on our website:
https://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/sys_reqs_aoo41.html



Greetings,
Jörg



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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Peter Kovacs]

+1 for tests.

But honestly I would not expect a lot of effect if you are on a modern
machine with 4GB + memory and maybe SSD disks.

I would expect issues on older machines with maybe old technology and 2GB
memory.
These machines are old of course (my MacBook Air is such a machine, however
with an early SSD HD. 6 years old)
Maybe 2GB are sufficient. Depends on Data used. I think we should also test
on older machines to see the effects.

All the Best
Peter

Jörg Schmidt  schrieb am Mo., 6. Feb. 2017, 04:42:

>
> > From: Damjan Jovanovic [mailto:dam...@apache.org]
>
> > Hopefully, to increase number of sheets, it's just this one-line patch
> > below that I am busy compiling now. Will let you know if it
> > works soon.
>
> That would be good if it worked.
>
>
> But please let us consider:
> Are 1024 a reasonable value?
> What would be possible at most _in the short_ term?
>
> We have to keep in mind that MS Excel and LO Calc do not have a limit for
> tables anymore and that must be our goal in the long term. (Of course
> gladly synonymous in the short term, but I think this will not be possible)
>
>
> Greetings,
> Jörg
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
> --

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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:rbircherapa...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 9:51 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc
> 
> Hi Damjan
> 
> We should run performance tests for this. 

+1

> To increase the 
> number is maybe  
> easy, 

That was my hope

> to find out the side effects is not so an easy task.

Yes, that's right and that was also my reason to write: "not a fair question", 
so
I mean I see the problems, but hope we can solve these, in this specific case.

> I this case, we have to be careful in this case. I want to 
> see some test  
> specs here. I'm willing to help there. It would be nice to 
> have Jörg on  
> the testers too.

No problem, you only have to post a link where I can download the patched 
version
for testing. (I use Windows)



Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Damjan Jovanovic [mailto:dam...@apache.org] 

> Hopefully, to increase number of sheets, it's just this one-line patch
> below that I am busy compiling now. Will let you know if it 
> works soon.

That would be good if it worked.


But please let us consider:
Are 1024 a reasonable value?
What would be possible at most _in the short_ term?

We have to keep in mind that MS Excel and LO Calc do not have a limit for 
tables anymore and that must be our goal in the long term. (Of course gladly 
synonymous in the short term, but I think this will not be possible)


Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Raphael Bircher]

Hi Damjan

We should run performance tests for this. To increase the number is maybe  
easy, to find out the side effects is not so an easy task.


I this case, we have to be careful in this case. I want to see some test  
specs here. I'm willing to help there. It would be nice to have Jörg on  
the testers too.


Regards, Raphael

Am .02.2017, 20:52 Uhr, schrieb Damjan Jovanovic :


My patch works :-). I can make 1024 sheets!

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 9:39 PM, Damjan Jovanovic   
wrote:



Sorry, my bad.

Hopefully, to increase number of sheets, it's just this one-line patch
below that I am busy compiling now. Will let you know if it works soon.


Index: main/sc/inc/address.hxx
===
--- main/sc/inc/address.hxx(revision 1781341)
+++ main/sc/inc/address.hxx(working copy)
@@ -87,7 +87,7 @@
 // Count values
 const SCROW   MAXROWCOUNT= MAXROWCOUNT_DEFINE;
 const SCCOL   MAXCOLCOUNT= MAXCOLCOUNT_DEFINE;
-const SCTAB   MAXTABCOUNT= 256;
+const SCTAB   MAXTABCOUNT= 1024;
 const SCCOLROWMAXCOLROWCOUNT = MAXROWCOUNT;
 // Maximum values
 const SCROW   MAXROW = MAXROWCOUNT - 1;


On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 9:32 PM, FR web forum  wrote:


>The maximum column I see is AMJ, which is the 1024th.
>Which version are you using?
Not columns but sheets

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--
Mein Blog: https://raphaelbircher.blogspot.ch

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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Damjan Jovanovic]

My patch works :-). I can make 1024 sheets!

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 9:39 PM, Damjan Jovanovic  wrote:

> Sorry, my bad.
>
> Hopefully, to increase number of sheets, it's just this one-line patch
> below that I am busy compiling now. Will let you know if it works soon.
>
>
> Index: main/sc/inc/address.hxx
> ===
> --- main/sc/inc/address.hxx(revision 1781341)
> +++ main/sc/inc/address.hxx(working copy)
> @@ -87,7 +87,7 @@
>  // Count values
>  const SCROW   MAXROWCOUNT= MAXROWCOUNT_DEFINE;
>  const SCCOL   MAXCOLCOUNT= MAXCOLCOUNT_DEFINE;
> -const SCTAB   MAXTABCOUNT= 256;
> +const SCTAB   MAXTABCOUNT= 1024;
>  const SCCOLROWMAXCOLROWCOUNT = MAXROWCOUNT;
>  // Maximum values
>  const SCROW   MAXROW = MAXROWCOUNT - 1;
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 9:32 PM, FR web forum  wrote:
>
>> >The maximum column I see is AMJ, which is the 1024th.
>> >Which version are you using?
>> Not columns but sheets
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>

Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Damjan Jovanovic]

Sorry, my bad.

Hopefully, to increase number of sheets, it's just this one-line patch
below that I am busy compiling now. Will let you know if it works soon.


Index: main/sc/inc/address.hxx
===
--- main/sc/inc/address.hxx(revision 1781341)
+++ main/sc/inc/address.hxx(working copy)
@@ -87,7 +87,7 @@
 // Count values
 const SCROW   MAXROWCOUNT= MAXROWCOUNT_DEFINE;
 const SCCOL   MAXCOLCOUNT= MAXCOLCOUNT_DEFINE;
-const SCTAB   MAXTABCOUNT= 256;
+const SCTAB   MAXTABCOUNT= 1024;
 const SCCOLROWMAXCOLROWCOUNT = MAXROWCOUNT;
 // Maximum values
 const SCROW   MAXROW = MAXROWCOUNT - 1;


On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 9:32 PM, FR web forum  wrote:

> >The maximum column I see is AMJ, which is the 1024th.
> >Which version are you using?
> Not columns but sheets
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[FR web forum]

>The maximum column I see is AMJ, which is the 1024th.
>Which version are you using?
Not columns but sheets

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Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Mechtilde]

Hello Damjan,

he means the number of TABLE which is limited to 256 since as I know.

 the number of column is limited to 1024 since version 3.3.

Kind regards

Mechtilde


Am 05.02.2017 um 20:16 schrieb Damjan Jovanovic:
> The maximum column I see is AMJ, which is the 1024th.
>
> Which version are you using?
>
> On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> It is not a very fair question, but I ask the programmers:
>>
>> How difficult is it to increase the table number of Calc as soon as
>> possible? My hope is that maybe not so much effort, but I do not know.
>>
>> At present, 256 tables are possible, imho already 1024 tables would be an
>> appreciable improvement.
>>
>> (Reason for this post here was this forum-question:
>> http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=2=67796)
>>
>>
>>
>> As I said, this is not a fair question, because there are many things that
>> are similarly important ... but, perhaps, it is still a suggestion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Jörg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Damjan Jovanovic]

The maximum column I see is AMJ, which is the 1024th.

Which version are you using?

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> It is not a very fair question, but I ask the programmers:
>
> How difficult is it to increase the table number of Calc as soon as
> possible? My hope is that maybe not so much effort, but I do not know.
>
> At present, 256 tables are possible, imho already 1024 tables would be an
> appreciable improvement.
>
> (Reason for this post here was this forum-question:
> http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=2=67796)
>
>
>
> As I said, this is not a fair question, because there are many things that
> are similarly important ... but, perhaps, it is still a suggestion.
>
>
>
> Greetings,
> Jörg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Increase the number of tables in Calc

[FR web forum]

Old issue: https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=19440
I'm not a developer too but this limit seems to be linked to a 32-bit spec.

- Mail original -
De: "Jörg Schmidt" 
À: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Envoyé: Dimanche 5 Février 2017 14:34:28
Objet: Increase the number of tables in Calc

Hello,

It is not a very fair question, but I ask the programmers:

How difficult is it to increase the table number of Calc as soon as possible? 
My hope is that maybe not so much effort, but I do not know.

At present, 256 tables are possible, imho already 1024 tables would be an 
appreciable improvement.

(Reason for this post here was this forum-question: 
http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=2=67796)



As I said, this is not a fair question, because there are many things that are 
similarly important ... but, perhaps, it is still a suggestion.



Greetings,
Jörg















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Increase the number of tables in Calc

[Jörg Schmidt]

Hello,

It is not a very fair question, but I ask the programmers:

How difficult is it to increase the table number of Calc as soon as possible? 
My hope is that maybe not so much effort, but I do not know.

At present, 256 tables are possible, imho already 1024 tables would be an 
appreciable improvement.

(Reason for this post here was this forum-question: 
http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=2=67796)



As I said, this is not a fair question, because there are many things that are 
similarly important ... but, perhaps, it is still a suggestion.



Greetings,
Jörg















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