[FairfieldLife] Re: FW: CNN Breaking News

[Jason]

>
> On 05/20/2013 01:29 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
> >   
> >
> > From: CNN Breaking News [mailto:BreakingNews@...]
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:04 PM
> > To: textbreakingnews@...
> > Subject: CNN Breaking News
> >
> >   
> >
> > A new CNN/ORC International poll shows that President Barack Obama remains
> > popular and a majority of Americans continue to think he is honest and has
> > managed the government effectively, while the tea party movement got a boost
> > after being targeted by the IRS.
> >
> > The survey was taken last week after the IRS, Benghazi and Associated Press
> > controversies marked one of the worst weeks for the White House. It asked if
> > Obama is a strong leader, with 58% saying he is, a level he last reached
> > just after the death of Osama bin Laden in 2011.
> >
> > The tea party movement's overall favorable rating is up nine points to 37%
> > since March; 45% hold an unfavorable view of the tea party, the poll shows.
> >
> > Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, a favorite for the Democratic
> > presidential nomination if she runs in 2016, continues to hold a favorable
> > rating over 60%.
> >
> > The survey, conducted May 17-18, has a sampling error of +/- 3 percentage po
> > ints.
> >
> > Follow complete coverage of breaking news on CNN TV, http://cnn.com and CNN
> > Mobile.
> >
> >
---  Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> Rah, rah, rah for Wall Street?  I'm very disappointed with this 
> administration.  Dumbed down Americans are probably not worth polling 
> anyway.  They're mostly a pile of know nothings though they can probably 
> tell you all about Lindsay Lohan.  And a CNN poll would even be worse.  
> American politics, both right and left, are a sham.
> 
> We know the IRS and tax system needs an overhaul.  It is an insult to 
> ALL Americans.
>

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/12/the_progressive_consumption_tax_a_win_win_solution_for_reducing_american_economic_inequality_.html

'Progressive Consumption Tax' in which people are taxed 
according to the resources they consume, and not according 
to income, is a superior alternative to linear models.

It forces people to consume less and less resources, forces 
them to put their money in banks.  Banks can lend money to 
governments who inturn can invest in infrastructure.  It 
also acts as an incentive for people to generate more 
income.

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" 
 wrote:
>
> Suppose, like me, Turq has no soul, is not a soul, but 
> has a certain twisted compassion in that he wants to 
> save idiots from themselves. 

Close, but no cigar. I *do* have an undying hope 
that people can learn to *laugh* at themselves.
It's a liberating feeling, one that does wonders
to dispel ego and all those other things that
cause unhappiness. 

> I say twisted because dealing with spiritual people 
> involves a certain degree of masochism in an unhealthy 
> environment where people are dreaming that by having 
> become spiritual, they now are closer to truth than 
> they were before they started.

Not to mention better than others around them.

> Or, maybe he is quite fulfilled, and this posting 
> here of his is just a hobby, you know, like having 
> pet mice, putting little rotating wheels in their 
> cages, given them things to chew on etc.

Much better. :-) I can identify with that one. :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Manzarek Bails

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
>
> On Behalf Of Bhairitu
> >
> > Was Manzarek just a TM'er or also a teacher? Anyway 
> > he's bailed from the planet:
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57585387/ray-manzarek-founding-member-of-the-doors-dies-at-74/
> 
> When my band opened for the Doors he was the only one who could 
> carry on a conversation.

True that. The night I had to light into Jim Morrison
he was the only one who seemed even slightly concerned
that he had sent a fan to the hospital. Krieger came
across as (sorry, but that *was* my impression) dumber
than a bucket of hammers and Densmore was so drunk he
could hardly hold his drumsticks. 

> I think all but Morrison were regular meditators. They may 
> all have been initiated. Some songs had TM lyrics: "Take 
> it easy baby. Take it as it comes."

And? I still don't get the importance TMers place on
famous people having once learned TM. Back in those
days you couldn't throw a rock without hitting someone
in the entertainment industry who *hadn't* learned TM.
You would have had to throw one further to find one
who still practiced it after a couple of months,
however. A friend of mine in L.A. specialized in
teaching celebrities; he said that as a general rule
they *all* quit soon after learning it and moved on
to the next fad. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[sparaig]

Actually, the DEfault Mode Network stays more active during periods of relaxed 
wakefulness than during periods of active wakefulness, and the active 
wakefulness only requires 5% more metabolic activity than the relaxed 
consciousness.

Sleep likely uses a bit less, but not all that much less. What distinguishes 
normal sleep is the kind of communication going on in the brain, not how much 
of it there is. Sleep in non-enlighened people involves very local connections, 
thought to be a period where the brain cells are resetting themselves.  I've 
been trying to convince Tononi to consider doing his sleep experiments on 
enlightened folk, as he's written about TM's pure consciousness in at least one 
of his books, but that hasn't happened yet.


L

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> >
> > Salyavin wrote:  Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness. 
> >  Share asks:  I've been reading all of today's posts, again with mixed 
> > success.  Anyway, I'm guessing that I have the same amount of brain cells 
> > right now that I had during last night when I was dreaming and also when I 
> > was sleeping without dreams.  I was pretty conscious during the dreams.  
> > I feel very conscious at this moment.  But I'm pretty sure I was not 
> > conscious during the whole night.  So it would seem that even though the 
> > number of brain cells remains constant, consciousness, as an experience, 
> > does not.      
> 
> I meant that you need a certain amount to generate consciousness
> anyway. They stay amount stays the same overnight. But the fact 
> that it gets switched off at night is another interesting 
> evolutionary adaptation. Must take up a lot of energy generating 
> all that bright inner awareness. The brain needs a bit of down time
> to assimilate the days events and reset itself or we go mad. Really.
> And then there's keeping us out of trouble in the dark where our
> primary sense isn't any use. Amazing thing really.
> 
> I got knocked out and lost my memory once, that was interesting.
> I'll do a post about it tomorrow as it had a lot of fascinating
> features for a philosophical chap like me.
> 
> 
> 
>  
> > 
> > PS  I realize I'm taking little baby steps.  It's the best I can do with 
> > this topic.  Thanks for your patience.  BTW, speaking of the hot human 
> > brain, scientists have recently theorized that one of the functions of 
> > yawning is to cool the brain.  
> 
> 
> > 
> >  From: salyavin808 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:31 PM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> > Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
> >  
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > "The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. 
> > > > > But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been 
> > > > > uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual 
> > > > > loading of the kundela creates a "spear of thought" which 
> > > > > pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as 
> > > > > if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is 
> > > > > certain."
> > > > 
> > > > Anxiety is a powerful thing. 
> > > 
> > > So it seems. The "cause" of the anxiety was of course a purely
> > > mental thing (or a thing in the realm of "meaning"), and
> > > NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not
> > > the cause.
> > 
> > When I think "anxiety" I think "adrenalin" which is physical. 
> > The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct,
> > which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of
> > can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of 
> > any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest
> > of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered.
> > 
> > For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin
> > dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience.
> > Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road.
> > Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that
> > when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world,
> > it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows 
> > in the brain so you can't think logically but can only think
> > of running away or fighting. To enable this it drags sugars out 
> > of the liver and into the blood and draws blood from the stomach
> > into the muscles.
> > 
> > Best of all, any experience you have when in an aroused state
> > gets tagged by the brain as being threatening and will cause a
> > similar reaction if you keep having the same stimulus. This is how neuroses 
> > develop, like agoraphobia or social shyn

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[sparaig]

Interesting thing I learned recently: some of the people reporting CC also 
report that ether doesn't shut things down completely -- pure consciousness 
still remains.

And having some level of consciousness during anesthesia isn't all that unusual 
in non-enlightened people either. Unfortunately, it is waking state that is 
preserved and horrible, horrible, horrible cases of PTSD can result from being 
awake during an operation while being unable to scream as the bone saw cuts off 
your leg.

L

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> >
> > Doc, I keep coming back to this.  It seems to be the most basic 
> truth, the only one we can know absolutely:  awareness exists.  
> 
> I think a general anaesthetic is a damn fine way of demonstrating
> the biological nature of consciousness. Just a little bit of ether
> and things shut down, taking awareness with it.
> 
> 
> > 
> >  From: "doctordumbass@" 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:42 AM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> > Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
> >  
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding 
> > the answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a 
> > thing, in the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a 
> > cloud, or an atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer 
> > is no. But I will probably never know the answer, absolutely.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> > >
> > > Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness?  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  From: "doctordumbass@" 
> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM
> > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, 
> > > Feel Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or 
> > > awareness is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, 
> > > you need a brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't 
> > > necessary.
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" 
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" 
> > > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > (snip)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complex and assume that it must have been 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > created
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by something more complex. This was Darwins 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > genius
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as he showed it isn't the case where 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > biology is 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But not where human consciousness is 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a belief. And a strange one.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for 
> > > > > > > > > > > human
> > > > > > > > > > > consciousness.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Which words did you not understand?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my
> > > > > > > > heartbeat.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Non sequitur. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > LOL!
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The heartbeat is a biological thing.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > And I guess the brain isn't..
> > > > > 
> > > > > You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain
> > > > > is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well
> > > > > not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is
> > > > > biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT.
> > > > 
> > > > That's really anything funny you know.
> > > > 
> > > > To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain.
> > > > Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability
> > > > for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict
> > > > how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains
> > > > were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't
> > > > rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, 
> > > > they be

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[sparaig]

Rishi-devata-chhandas...

Anything that shows that relationship is consciousness on some level.

BTW, Tononi's Integrated Information Theory has exactly the same structure for 
consciousness, but he calls it different things.


L

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@...  wrote:
>
> I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding the 
> answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a thing, in 
> the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a cloud, or 
> an atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer is no. But I 
> will probably never know the answer, absolutely.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> >
> > Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness?  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  From: "doctordumbass@" 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> > Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
> >  
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or 
> > awareness is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, 
> > you need a brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't 
> > necessary.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" 
> > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > (snip)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complex and assume that it must have been 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > created
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by something more complex. This was Darwins 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > genius
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as he showed it isn't the case where biology 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But not where human consciousness is concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a belief. And a strange one.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for 
> > > > > > > > > > human
> > > > > > > > > > consciousness.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Which words did you not understand?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my
> > > > > > > heartbeat.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Non sequitur. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > LOL!
> > > > > 
> > > > > > The heartbeat is a biological thing.
> > > > > 
> > > > > And I guess the brain isn't..
> > > > 
> > > > You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain
> > > > is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well
> > > > not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is
> > > > biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT.
> > > 
> > > That's really anything funny you know.
> > > 
> > > To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain.
> > > Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability
> > > for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict
> > > how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains
> > > were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't
> > > rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, 
> > > they believe sorts of weird stuff.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > > > > You mystical types start from the wrong place.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant
> > > > > > thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or
> > > > > > believers in God who make the points I'm making.
> > > > > 
> > > > > So?
> > > > 
> > > > So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain
> > > > consciousness without being a mystic, which means you
> > > > can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a
> > > > "mystical type" (if I even am).
> > > > 
> > > > > > And where they start from is the fact that the biology of
> > > > > > evolution doesn't account for human consciousness.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > You claim to understand evolution but have you considered how
> > > > > > > an alternative might fit in?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > An alternative to evolution? Why would that be necessary? Nothing
> > > > > > wrong with evolution as it is.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Other than that it can't account for human consciousness?
> > > > 
> > > > Nothing wrong with that. It just means we have to look
> > > > elsewhere for an understanding of con

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" 
 wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > > 
> > > One thing you've got to say about the TM movement -- it
> > > never fails to amuse...  :-)
> > 
> > And, given the amount of posts and energy the Turq devotes in posting about 
> > the TMO, it certainly has made a deep impression on this poor soul - 40 
> > years after he realized he was only in it for the broads and consequently 
> > jumped ship he still goes on and on about it. Remarkable !
> >
> Suppose, like me, Turq has no soul, is not a soul, but has a certain twisted 
> compassion in that he wants to save idiots from themselves. I say twisted 
> because dealing with spiritual people involves a certain degree of masochism 
> in an unhealthy environment where people are dreaming that by having become 
> spiritual, they now are closer to truth than they were before they started.
> 
> Or, maybe he is quite fulfilled, and this posting here of his
> is just a hobby, you know, like having pet mice, putting little
> rotating wheels in their cages, given them things to chew on etc.

He sure has you trained.

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > 
> > One thing you've got to say about the TM movement -- it
> > never fails to amuse...  :-)
> 
> And, given the amount of posts and energy the Turq devotes in posting about 
> the TMO, it certainly has made a deep impression on this poor soul - 40 years 
> after he realized he was only in it for the broads and consequently jumped 
> ship he still goes on and on about it. Remarkable !
>
Suppose, like me, Turq has no soul, is not a soul, but has a certain twisted 
compassion in that he wants to save idiots from themselves. I say twisted 
because dealing with spiritual people involves a certain degree of masochism in 
an unhealthy environment where people are dreaming that by having become 
spiritual, they now are closer to truth than they were before they started.

Or, maybe he is quite fulfilled, and this posting here of his is just a hobby, 
you know, like having pet mice, putting little rotating wheels in their cages, 
given them things to chew on etc.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness

[Ann]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" 
 wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  wrote:
> 
> > Ann:
> > > Following, rather superficially, the recent subject 
> > > of the brain's relationship to consciousness I have 
> > > had a couple of thoughts which are not based on 
> > > scientific evidence or objective proof of any kind.
> > > 
> > It is a real challenge to refute or argue against the 
> > 'consciousness only' or the idealistic point-of-view.
> 
> Suppose that 'consciousness only' and 'materialism only' (consciousness as an 
> emergent property) are both wrong, and that metaphysics and science also are 
> both wrong, and that imagination nor logic can illuminate the problem. Then 
> what?

Well, the "then what" is exactly where we are now. I am not sure I am ever 
going to know which comes first - consciousness or the brain but my vote is for 
consciousness. But it can make for some mind bending exercise to try and 
experience what is the truth; I mean, no one is ever just going to figure it 
out by thinking about it all.
>  
> > Even Barry gets confused on this, thinking that 'free 
> > will' is something other than idealism. Go figure.
> > 
> > In the West, you'd have to argue against Immanuel Kant, 
> > George Hegel and Arthur Schopenhauer. Not an easy task.
> > 
> > In the Upanishads, there are Shankara and his guru 
> > Gaudapada to refute and the whole host of Advaitins up 
> > to and including Ramana Maharshi. The Kashmiri Swami 
> > Laksmanjoo supported the 'Trika' system which takes 
> > 'Pure Consciousness' as the Ultimate Reality.
> > 
> > Similarly, almost the whole of Zen Buddhism supports 
> > the consciousness only metaphysics. Not to mention Naga 
> > Arjuna's Madhyamika and the Vijnanavada Tradition of 
> > Asanga and Vasabandhu.
> > 
> > > Consciousness is a characteristic of being alive, 
> > > having a functioning brain and having a perceiver to 
> > > perceive what is generated by certain activity of the 
> > > brain. Consciousness is also present in all forms of 
> > > life that possess a nervous system. I think it is 
> > > also much more than this. 
> > > 
> > Excerpt from Mandukya Karika IV by Gaudapada: 
> > 
> > "Duality is only an appearance; non-duality is the real 
> > truth. The object exists as an object for the knowing 
> > subject; but it does not exist outside of consciousness
> > because the distinction of subject and object is within
> > consciousness." (IV 25-27) Sharma, p. 245-246. 
> > 
> > > I think consciousness is also very much a disembodied 
> > > phenomenon which can exist outside of a physical body. 
> > > I believe some consciousness can be generated by a 
> > > brain but that this consciousness is energy,that also 
> > > finds its way outside of the physical that comprises 
> > > a nervous system and is set loose into the surrounding 
> > > environment, consciousness continues b
> > >
> > Excerpt from Mahayana Sutra Lankara by Asanga: 
> > 
> > "Pure consciousness is the only Reality. By its nature, 
> > it is Self-luminous." (XIII, 13). "Thus shaking off 
> > duality, he directly perceives the Absolute which is the 
> > unity underlying phenomena (dharmadatu)." (VI, 7) 
> > Sharma, p. 112-113
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  wrote:

> Ann:
> > Following, rather superficially, the recent subject 
> > of the brain's relationship to consciousness I have 
> > had a couple of thoughts which are not based on 
> > scientific evidence or objective proof of any kind.
> > 
> It is a real challenge to refute or argue against the 
> 'consciousness only' or the idealistic point-of-view.

Suppose that 'consciousness only' and 'materialism only' (consciousness as an 
emergent property) are both wrong, and that metaphysics and science also are 
both wrong, and that imagination nor logic can illuminate the problem. Then 
what?
 
> Even Barry gets confused on this, thinking that 'free 
> will' is something other than idealism. Go figure.
> 
> In the West, you'd have to argue against Immanuel Kant, 
> George Hegel and Arthur Schopenhauer. Not an easy task.
> 
> In the Upanishads, there are Shankara and his guru 
> Gaudapada to refute and the whole host of Advaitins up 
> to and including Ramana Maharshi. The Kashmiri Swami 
> Laksmanjoo supported the 'Trika' system which takes 
> 'Pure Consciousness' as the Ultimate Reality.
> 
> Similarly, almost the whole of Zen Buddhism supports 
> the consciousness only metaphysics. Not to mention Naga 
> Arjuna's Madhyamika and the Vijnanavada Tradition of 
> Asanga and Vasabandhu.
> 
> > Consciousness is a characteristic of being alive, 
> > having a functioning brain and having a perceiver to 
> > perceive what is generated by certain activity of the 
> > brain. Consciousness is also present in all forms of 
> > life that possess a nervous system. I think it is 
> > also much more than this. 
> > 
> Excerpt from Mandukya Karika IV by Gaudapada: 
> 
> "Duality is only an appearance; non-duality is the real 
> truth. The object exists as an object for the knowing 
> subject; but it does not exist outside of consciousness
> because the distinction of subject and object is within
> consciousness." (IV 25-27) Sharma, p. 245-246. 
> 
> > I think consciousness is also very much a disembodied 
> > phenomenon which can exist outside of a physical body. 
> > I believe some consciousness can be generated by a 
> > brain but that this consciousness is energy,that also 
> > finds its way outside of the physical that comprises 
> > a nervous system and is set loose into the surrounding 
> > environment, consciousness continues b
> >
> Excerpt from Mahayana Sutra Lankara by Asanga: 
> 
> "Pure consciousness is the only Reality. By its nature, 
> it is Self-luminous." (XIII, 13). "Thus shaking off 
> duality, he directly perceives the Absolute which is the 
> unity underlying phenomena (dharmadatu)." (VI, 7) 
> Sharma, p. 112-113
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  wrote:
> 
> Ann:
> > Following, rather superficially, the recent subject 
> > of the brain's relationship to consciousness I have 
> > had a couple of thoughts which are not based on 
> > scientific evidence or objective proof of any kind.
> > 
> It is a real challenge to refute or argue against the 
> 'consciousness only' or the idealistic point-of-view.
> 
> Even Barry gets confused on this, thinking that 'free 
> will' is something other than idealism. Go figure.

FWIW, "Idealism" in this context doesn't mean having
high ideals. It's the philosophical theory that matter
is emergent from consciousness rather than the reverse 
(Materialism).

[FairfieldLife] Re: FW: CNN Breaking News

[Richard J. Williams]

> > The tea party movement's overall favorable rating 
> > is up nine points to 37% since March
> > 
Bhairitu:
> I'm very disappointed with this administration...
>
Let's see, the Dems have Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. 

The GOP has Marco Rubio, Chris Christie, Paul Ryan, 
Nikki Haley, Ted Cruz, Rick Perry, Bobby Jindal, Nikki 
Haley, Rick Perry and Rand Paul. LoL!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness

[Richard J. Williams]

Ann:
> Following, rather superficially, the recent subject 
> of the brain's relationship to consciousness I have 
> had a couple of thoughts which are not based on 
> scientific evidence or objective proof of any kind.
> 
It is a real challenge to refute or argue against the 
'consciousness only' or the idealistic point-of-view.

Even Barry gets confused on this, thinking that 'free 
will' is something other than idealism. Go figure.

In the West, you'd have to argue against Immanuel Kant, 
George Hegel and Arthur Schopenhauer. Not an easy task.

In the Upanishads, there are Shankara and his guru 
Gaudapada to refute and the whole host of Advaitins up 
to and including Ramana Maharshi. The Kashmiri Swami 
Laksmanjoo supported the 'Trika' system which takes 
'Pure Consciousness' as the Ultimate Reality.

Similarly, almost the whole of Zen Buddhism supports 
the consciousness only metaphysics. Not to mention Naga 
Arjuna's Madhyamika and the Vijnanavada Tradition of 
Asanga and Vasabandhu.

> Consciousness is a characteristic of being alive, 
> having a functioning brain and having a perceiver to 
> perceive what is generated by certain activity of the 
> brain. Consciousness is also present in all forms of 
> life that possess a nervous system. I think it is 
> also much more than this. 
> 
Excerpt from Mandukya Karika IV by Gaudapada: 

"Duality is only an appearance; non-duality is the real 
truth. The object exists as an object for the knowing 
subject; but it does not exist outside of consciousness
because the distinction of subject and object is within
consciousness." (IV 25-27) Sharma, p. 245-246. 

> I think consciousness is also very much a disembodied 
> phenomenon which can exist outside of a physical body. 
> I believe some consciousness can be generated by a 
> brain but that this consciousness is energy,that also 
> finds its way outside of the physical that comprises 
> a nervous system and is set loose into the surrounding 
> environment, consciousness continues b
>
Excerpt from Mahayana Sutra Lankara by Asanga: 

"Pure consciousness is the only Reality. By its nature, 
it is Self-luminous." (XIII, 13). "Thus shaking off 
duality, he directly perceives the Absolute which is the 
unity underlying phenomena (dharmadatu)." (VI, 7) 
Sharma, p. 112-113

[FairfieldLife] Construction of the Temple in Jerusalem

[Yifu]

Jean Fouquet, 15-th century:
http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/3/21051.jpg

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Super Storms have arrived

[Richard J. Williams]

Mike Dixon:
> Ah yes, but we here, on FairfieldLife, know that 
> if only a few more would meditate and do yogic 
> flying, stop eating beef,driving pick-ups, turn 
> in their guns and pay more taxes, 
>
And chant mantras.

> dat ebry ting gonna be alright maan.
>
So, how many centuries have they had tornados up 
in Tornado Alley?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_Alley 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Super Storms have arrived

[Richard J. Williams]

> > > Mile wide tornado hits Oklahoma. But righties
> > > will say, "don't worry, Jeezuss is coming."
> >
> > This a sick way of sharing news - you suck as a
> > spiritual teacher. Is this the best you can do?
> >
Bhairitu:
> You fail at getting the nuance, don't you?  
> Must be the Texas air. So let me help you.
> 
Who said I was in Texas?

> Why would I say that about righties?  Because 
> they are climate change deniers and I think 
> this may be the shape of storms to come. I may 
> be wrong but then I would suspect that won't 
> change the right wing's climate change denier's 
> thinking.  Got it?
> 
So, the climate change deniers are to blame for 
the OK tornado? Go figure.

> Spiritual teaching can take many forms.
>
Hey! You're the guy that's to the 'right' of 
Mother Kali - why didn't you chant a spell,
or did you? LoL!

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Super Storms have arrived

[Mike Dixon]

Ah yes, but we here, on FairfieldLife, know that if only a few more would 
meditate and do yogic flying, stop eating beef,driving pick-ups, turn in their 
guns and pay more taxes, dat ebry ting gonna be alright maan.


From: Bhairitu 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:41 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Super Storms have arrived

  
Mile wide tornado hits Oklahoma. But righties will say, "don't worry, 
Jeezuss is coming."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/20/oklahoma-city-tornado-2013_n_3308384.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit

[John]

Share, Bhairitu, and Ann

The date and time of the proclamation of Mao Tse Tung to start the People's 
Republic of China is correct.  See link below:

http://gochina.about.com/od/eventsfestivals/a/NationalDay.htm


JR



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
>
> Thanks noozguru and John, very fascinating chart of China, very fascinating 
> compatibility chart between China and USA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From: John 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 5:07 PM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
>  
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >
> > On 05/20/2013 11:33 AM, John wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
> > >>> Ann,
> > >>>
> > >>> Please, read my response to Share on this same thread.  I'm surprised 
> > >>> there's such interest in the chart of Red China.
> > >>>
> > >>> JR
> > >> I have to be honest with you JR, I was kind of making a joke about it 
> > >> all (but you knew that). I mean, of all the countries, China is one of 
> > >> the most ancient and determining its actual moment of inception would be 
> > >> pretty hard to figure out. I do admire you, however, for two reasons: 
> > >> you seem to be a particularly nice fellow and your knowledge of Jyotish 
> > >> is extensive. However, I do find it comical (and it may well be because 
> > >> I am ignorant of the subject) but determining the astrological chart of 
> > >> anything other than a human being seems fairly absurd. However, I am 
> > >> prepared to be enlightened on why this is not necessarily so if this is 
> > >> not the case.
> > > Ann,
> > >
> > > The birth of a nation, a political system, an organization, and even a 
> > > thought or idea is similar to the birth of an individual.  In jyotish, 
> > > the birth time is the point in time when the lagna occurs, meaning that 
> > > this is the time the planets "grasp" the person or entity with its karmic 
> > > quality.  This can be interpreted by casting the horoscope of that 
> > > specific time which shows the placement of the planets in the zodiac.
> > >
> > > IMO, in using the concepts in modern day quantum physics, the ascendant 
> > > determines the special combination of wave functions from the various 
> > > planets which interacts with the wave function of the person or entity in 
> > > question.  We can also say the ascendant is the superposition of all the 
> > > wave functions of the planets as they relate to the individual's unique 
> > > wave function or signature.  This superposition of waves can be 
> > > understood in human terms by using the ancient methods outlined in 
> > > jyotish.
> > >
> > > In short, everything in the universe is related to each other.  I hope 
> > > this helps.
> > >
> > > JR
> > 
> > Most astrologers would use the birth chart for the People's Republic of 
> > China:
> > 
> > Beijing
> > October 1st, 1949
> > 3:01 PM AWST (-8:00)
> > 116E25 39N55
> > 
> > (Time may have been rectified)
> >
> 
> Bhairitu, Share, and Ann,
> 
> I'm not sure how this date and time was derived and if it is authentic.  
> Nonetheless, in using this data, the ascendant of the People's Republic of 
> China would be Capricorn with the Moon in the nakshatra of Uttara Shaddah.
> 
> In making a cursory review of the charts of the USA and China, both nations 
> have Kujadosha which facilitates in the cooperation and partnership between 
> them. 
> 
> Since the Mars of China is in conjunction with the Venus of the USA in the 
> 7th house, there is a very strong bond between the nations, almost bordering 
> to a sexual orgy or attraction.  Perhaps, this is the reason why both nations 
> are in close trade agreement.
> 
> A surprising feature of the China chart is the placement of Venus in Libra in 
> the 10th house.  This means that China will be very good in creativity, the 
> fine arts, women's rights, female products, clothing, cars and  international 
> politics.
> 
> JR
>

[FairfieldLife] Post Count Tue 21-May-13 00:15:03 UTC

[FFL PostCount]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): 05/18/13 00:00:00
End Date (UTC): 05/25/13 00:00:00
247 messages as of (UTC) 05/21/13 00:14:33

24 doctordumbass
20 Share Long 
19 Ravi Chivukula 
18 Ann 
17 Bhairitu 
16 salyavin808 
16 authfriend 
15 card 
13 seventhray27 
10 nablusoss1008 
 9 turquoiseb 
 7 Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
 7 John 
 6 wgm4u 
 5 merlin 
 5 Rick Archer 
 4 sparaig 
 4 merudanda 
 4 feste37 
 4 Richard J. Williams 
 4 PaliGap 
 4 Alex Stanley 
 3 Jason 
 2 raunchydog 
 2 Susan 
 2 Buck 
 1 srijau
 1 martyboi 
 1 azgrey 
 1 WLeed3
 1 Mike Dixon 
 1 Dick Mays 
 1 Carol 
Posters: 33
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=
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For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit

[Share Long]

Thanks noozguru and John, very fascinating chart of China, very fascinating 
compatibility chart between China and USA.





 From: John 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 5:07 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
 


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> On 05/20/2013 11:33 AM, John wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
> >>> Ann,
> >>>
> >>> Please, read my response to Share on this same thread.  I'm surprised 
> >>> there's such interest in the chart of Red China.
> >>>
> >>> JR
> >> I have to be honest with you JR, I was kind of making a joke about it all 
> >> (but you knew that). I mean, of all the countries, China is one of the 
> >> most ancient and determining its actual moment of inception would be 
> >> pretty hard to figure out. I do admire you, however, for two reasons: you 
> >> seem to be a particularly nice fellow and your knowledge of Jyotish is 
> >> extensive. However, I do find it comical (and it may well be because I am 
> >> ignorant of the subject) but determining the astrological chart of 
> >> anything other than a human being seems fairly absurd. However, I am 
> >> prepared to be enlightened on why this is not necessarily so if this is 
> >> not the case.
> > Ann,
> >
> > The birth of a nation, a political system, an organization, and even a 
> > thought or idea is similar to the birth of an individual.  In jyotish, the 
> > birth time is the point in time when the lagna occurs, meaning that this is 
> > the time the planets "grasp" the person or entity with its karmic quality.  
> > This can be interpreted by casting the horoscope of that specific time 
> > which shows the placement of the planets in the zodiac.
> >
> > IMO, in using the concepts in modern day quantum physics, the ascendant 
> > determines the special combination of wave functions from the various 
> > planets which interacts with the wave function of the person or entity in 
> > question.  We can also say the ascendant is the superposition of all the 
> > wave functions of the planets as they relate to the individual's unique 
> > wave function or signature.  This superposition of waves can be understood 
> > in human terms by using the ancient methods outlined in jyotish.
> >
> > In short, everything in the universe is related to each other.  I hope this 
> > helps.
> >
> > JR
> 
> Most astrologers would use the birth chart for the People's Republic of 
> China:
> 
> Beijing
> October 1st, 1949
> 3:01 PM AWST (-8:00)
> 116E25 39N55
> 
> (Time may have been rectified)
>

Bhairitu, Share, and Ann,

I'm not sure how this date and time was derived and if it is authentic.  
Nonetheless, in using this data, the ascendant of the People's Republic of 
China would be Capricorn with the Moon in the nakshatra of Uttara Shaddah.

In making a cursory review of the charts of the USA and China, both nations 
have Kujadosha which facilitates in the cooperation and partnership between 
them. 

Since the Mars of China is in conjunction with the Venus of the USA in the 7th 
house, there is a very strong bond between the nations, almost bordering to a 
sexual orgy or attraction.  Perhaps, this is the reason why both nations are in 
close trade agreement.

A surprising feature of the China chart is the placement of Venus in Libra in 
the 10th house.  This means that China will be very good in creativity, the 
fine arts, women's rights, female products, clothing, cars and  international 
politics.

JR


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Super Storms have arrived

[Bhairitu]

On 05/20/2013 04:31 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
> Bhairitu:
>> Mile wide tornado hits Oklahoma. But righties
> will say, "don't worry, Jeezuss is coming."
> This a sick way of sharing news - you suck as a
> spiritual teacher. Is this the best you can do?
>
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/20/oklahoma-city-tornado-2013_n_3308384.html

You fail at getting the nuance, don't you?  Must be the Texas air. So 
let me help you.

Why would I say that about righties?  Because they are climate change 
deniers and I think this may be the shape of storms to come. I may be 
wrong but then I would suspect that won't change the right wing's 
climate change denier's thinking.  Got it?

Spiritual teaching can take many forms.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Super Storms have arrived

[Richard J. Williams]

Bhairitu:
> Mile wide tornado hits Oklahoma. But righties 
will say, "don't worry, Jeezuss is coming."
>
This a sick way of sharing news - you suck as a 
spiritual teacher. Is this the best you can do?

> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/20/oklahoma-city-tornado-2013_n_3308384.html
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness

[Ann]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
>
> Following, rather superficially, the recent subject of the brain's 
> relationship to consciousness I have had a couple of thoughts which are not 
> based on scientific evidence or objective proof of any kind.
> 
> Consciousness is a characteristic of being alive, having a functioning brain 
> and having a perceiver to perceive what is generated by certain activity of 
> the brain. Consciousness is also present in all forms of life that possess a 
> nervous system. I think it is also much more than this. 
> 
> I think consciousness is also very much a disembodied phenomenon which can 
> exist outside of a physical body. I believe some consciousness can be 
> generated by a brain but that this consciousness is energy,that also finds 
> its way outside of the physical that comprises a nervous system and is set 
> loose into the surrounding environment, consciousness continues b
>
(Shit, I just hit 'send' with my baby finger by mistake and off this little 
missive flew; just like what I was talking about above when I was so rudely 
interrupted by my last finger on my right hand. What just happened is a perfect 
example of a human exhibiting some aspect of consciousness and then, due to an 
errant pinky, off the message/post/result of consciousness flys these words 
into cyberspace as a new kind of energy that re-manifests as a post in 
somebody's inbox.)

Anyway, what was I saying? Something about consciousness continuing on in the 
environment/atmosphere as a manifestation of energy. In this disembodied form 
consciousness no longer needs a brain to exist or effect. And I believe it 
could keep existing forever in this brainless/bodyless form. I certainly can 
not prove this but I feel it to be right. 

Consciousness is everywhere, it envelopes us all the time. I believe it to be 
an integral part of what allows the universe to function - it is intelligence. 
I think we are cocooned in it. We do not create it, it passes through us. We 
have the receptor to know it is present (a brain) but it pre-dates us, it "is" 
already, before we were and well after the current body is gone. Consciousness 
possesses structure but not physical structure that we can always perceive. But 
I do think the physical world is built by consciousness so there are concrete 
things all around us that possess the building blocks of consciousness. (I'm 
just working this out as I write, I never really thought about this like this 
before so go boil some potatoes or make the bed because I am most likely 
blathering here.)

Still, this is an interesting topic and if I wasn't pecking away at this on my 
iPad I might want to come back to it later. I'll just sit and let a bit more 
consciousness wash over me and get back to you if I figure anything else out.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Manzarek Bails

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Bhairitu
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 5:39 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Manzarek Bails

 

  

Was Manzarek just a TM'er or also a teacher? Anyway he's bailed from 
the planet:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57585387/ray-manzarek-founding-member-of
-the-doors-dies-at-74/

When my band opened for the Doors he was the only one who could carry on 
a conversation.

I think all but Morrison were regular meditators. They may all have been
initiated. Some songs had TM lyrics: "Take it easy baby. Take it as it
comes."

[FairfieldLife] Consciousness

[Ann]

Following, rather superficially, the recent subject of the brain's relationship 
to consciousness I have had a couple of thoughts which are not based on 
scientific evidence or objective proof of any kind.

Consciousness is a characteristic of being alive, having a functioning brain 
and having a perceiver to perceive what is generated by certain activity of the 
brain. Consciousness is also present in all forms of life that possess a 
nervous system. I think it is also much more than this. 

I think consciousness is also very much a disembodied phenomenon which can 
exist outside of a physical body. I believe some consciousness can be generated 
by a brain but that this consciousness is energy,that also finds its way 
outside of the physical that comprises a nervous system and is set loose into 
the surrounding environment, consciousness continues b

[FairfieldLife] The Super Storms have arrived

[Bhairitu]

Mile wide tornado hits Oklahoma.  But righties will say, "don't worry, 
Jeezuss is coming."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/20/oklahoma-city-tornado-2013_n_3308384.html

[FairfieldLife] Manzarek Bails

[Bhairitu]

Was Manzarek just a TM'er or also a teacher?  Anyway he's bailed from 
the planet:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57585387/ray-manzarek-founding-member-of-the-doors-dies-at-74/

When my band opened for the Doors he was the only one who could carry on 
a conversation.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit

[Bhairitu]

On 05/20/2013 03:07 PM, John wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>> On 05/20/2013 11:33 AM, John wrote:
>>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
> Ann,
>
> Please, read my response to Share on this same thread.  I'm surprised 
> there's such interest in the chart of Red China.
>
> JR
 I have to be honest with you JR, I was kind of making a joke about it all 
 (but you knew that). I mean, of all the countries, China is one of the 
 most ancient and determining its actual moment of inception would be 
 pretty hard to figure out. I do admire you, however, for two reasons: you 
 seem to be a particularly nice fellow and your knowledge of Jyotish is 
 extensive. However, I do find it comical (and it may well be because I am 
 ignorant of the subject) but determining the astrological chart of 
 anything other than a human being seems fairly absurd. However, I am 
 prepared to be enlightened on why this is not necessarily so if this is 
 not the case.
>>> Ann,
>>>
>>> The birth of a nation, a political system, an organization, and even a 
>>> thought or idea is similar to the birth of an individual.  In jyotish, the 
>>> birth time is the point in time when the lagna occurs, meaning that this is 
>>> the time the planets "grasp" the person or entity with its karmic quality.  
>>> This can be interpreted by casting the horoscope of that specific time 
>>> which shows the placement of the planets in the zodiac.
>>>
>>> IMO, in using the concepts in modern day quantum physics, the ascendant 
>>> determines the special combination of wave functions from the various 
>>> planets which interacts with the wave function of the person or entity in 
>>> question.  We can also say the ascendant is the superposition of all the 
>>> wave functions of the planets as they relate to the individual's unique 
>>> wave function or signature.  This superposition of waves can be understood 
>>> in human terms by using the ancient methods outlined in jyotish.
>>>
>>> In short, everything in the universe is related to each other.  I hope this 
>>> helps.
>>>
>>> JR
>> Most astrologers would use the birth chart for the People's Republic of
>> China:
>>
>> Beijing
>> October 1st, 1949
>> 3:01 PM AWST (-8:00)
>> 116E25 39N55
>>
>> (Time may have been rectified)
>>
> Bhairitu, Share, and Ann,
>
> I'm not sure how this date and time was derived and if it is authentic.  
> Nonetheless, in using this data, the ascendant of the People's Republic of 
> China would be Capricorn with the Moon in the nakshatra of Uttara Shaddah.

Did you even bother to look it up on the Internet?  Standard Wikipedia 
stuff.  The time may have been rectified by astrologers as I took it 
from a chart but many other sites used that.

[FairfieldLife] March Against Monsanto T-Shirts

[nablusoss1008]

Tuesday, May 14, 2013 March Against Monsanto T-Shirts
UPDATE: May 15 was the last day to order to receive
these t-shirts in time for the May 25 March Against Monsanto. However,
these "GMO FREE" organic cotton t-shirts are still available for
purchase through the month of May to commemorate the movement.

 

 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> 
> One thing you've got to say about the TM movement -- it
> never fails to amuse...  :-)

And, given the amount of posts and energy the Turq devotes in posting about the 
TMO, it certainly has made a deep impression on this poor soul - 40 years after 
he realized he was only in it for the broads and consequently jumped ship he 
still goes on and on about it. Remarkable ! 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit

[John]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> On 05/20/2013 11:33 AM, John wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
> >>> Ann,
> >>>
> >>> Please, read my response to Share on this same thread.  I'm surprised 
> >>> there's such interest in the chart of Red China.
> >>>
> >>> JR
> >> I have to be honest with you JR, I was kind of making a joke about it all 
> >> (but you knew that). I mean, of all the countries, China is one of the 
> >> most ancient and determining its actual moment of inception would be 
> >> pretty hard to figure out. I do admire you, however, for two reasons: you 
> >> seem to be a particularly nice fellow and your knowledge of Jyotish is 
> >> extensive. However, I do find it comical (and it may well be because I am 
> >> ignorant of the subject) but determining the astrological chart of 
> >> anything other than a human being seems fairly absurd. However, I am 
> >> prepared to be enlightened on why this is not necessarily so if this is 
> >> not the case.
> > Ann,
> >
> > The birth of a nation, a political system, an organization, and even a 
> > thought or idea is similar to the birth of an individual.  In jyotish, the 
> > birth time is the point in time when the lagna occurs, meaning that this is 
> > the time the planets "grasp" the person or entity with its karmic quality.  
> > This can be interpreted by casting the horoscope of that specific time 
> > which shows the placement of the planets in the zodiac.
> >
> > IMO, in using the concepts in modern day quantum physics, the ascendant 
> > determines the special combination of wave functions from the various 
> > planets which interacts with the wave function of the person or entity in 
> > question.  We can also say the ascendant is the superposition of all the 
> > wave functions of the planets as they relate to the individual's unique 
> > wave function or signature.  This superposition of waves can be understood 
> > in human terms by using the ancient methods outlined in jyotish.
> >
> > In short, everything in the universe is related to each other.  I hope this 
> > helps.
> >
> > JR
> 
> Most astrologers would use the birth chart for the People's Republic of 
> China:
> 
> Beijing
> October 1st, 1949
> 3:01 PM AWST (-8:00)
> 116E25 39N55
> 
> (Time may have been rectified)
>

Bhairitu, Share, and Ann,

I'm not sure how this date and time was derived and if it is authentic.  
Nonetheless, in using this data, the ascendant of the People's Republic of 
China would be Capricorn with the Moon in the nakshatra of Uttara Shaddah.

In making a cursory review of the charts of the USA and China, both nations 
have Kujadosha which facilitates in the cooperation and partnership between 
them. 

Since the Mars of China is in conjunction with the Venus of the USA in the 7th 
house, there is a very strong bond between the nations, almost bordering to a 
sexual orgy or attraction.  Perhaps, this is the reason why both nations are in 
close trade agreement.

A surprising feature of the China chart is the placement of Venus in Libra in 
the 10th house.  This means that China will be very good in creativity, the 
fine arts, women's rights, female products, clothing, cars and  international 
politics.


JR

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
(snip)
> The point I'm making is, I don't see it as mind and matter,
> it's all the same thing to me, you can't seperate them, they
> don't work without each other. This is what I'm saying about
> consciousness, it's a function. Once you have enough brain
> cells you have consciousness. Emergent phenomena and it can
> no more be understood in terms of individual brain cells than
> wetness can be understood in terms of individual water molecules.

This is at least a reasonable outlook. But you realize it's
not what you were telling me earlier, right?

It also doesn't have anything to do with the "hard problem"
I've been trying to get you to grapple with.

[FairfieldLife] Monsanto Suffers Key Court Loss on Brazil

[nablusoss1008]

Monsanto Suffers Key Court Loss on Brazil RR1 Royalties
Brazil's top appeals court Thursday reiterated its ruling that
Monsanto's patent on first-generation RoundUp Ready soybeans expired in
September 2010 and the U.S. biotech giant had been charging royalties
illegally for over two years.

The unanimous decision puts another dent in Monsanto's claim that it has
the right to charge royalties in Brazil until 2014, in line with the
rest of the world.

Monsanto will appeal the ruling at Brazil's appeals court and also at
the Supreme Court, the St. Louis-based company said in a statement,
adding that it remained 'confident in its rights and the validity of its
RR1 soybean patent until 2014.'

But farmer representatives said the appeals court justices' decision
leaves Monsanto's position in tatters.

"The Supreme Appeals Court put a full stop to Monsanto's decision to
insist in not following the law," said Ricardo Tomczyk, vice-president
of the Mato Grosso Soybean and Corn Producers Association (APROSOJA-MT).

Farmers and Monsanto have been fighting over the expiry of the RR1
patent for a number of years. Following a series of legal reverses, in
February Monsanto suspended royalties on RR1 until a final legal
decision was reached.

APROSOJA is seeking that Monsanto repay royalty payments made between
2010 and 2013 at double the initial value.

RoundUp Ready dominates the Brazilian soybean market with the gene
present in approximately 85% of locally produced beans. Up until today,
Monsanto charged RoundUp royalties at 2% on seeds or at $3.60 to $4.80
per acre on planted land.

Monsanto is keen to close this case before it launches Intacta RR2 Pro
soybeans in Brazil.

In January, it signed a general agreement with Brazil's National
Agricultural Confederation (CNA) and 10 state farm federations under
which it offered to waive future royalties on RR1, if farmers waived the
right to sue for past royalties.

The deal caused controversy as farm groups objected to the contracts
drawn up by Monsanto, based on the agreement, under which farmers not
only agreed to waive rights to sue on RR1 royalties but also had to
agree to respect patent rights on RR2, including the right to collect
royalties post production.

Monsanto subsequently dropped the RR2 clauses, but the latest decision
makes the RR1 accord look less and less attractive.

Monsanto sees huge potential for its new insect-resistant RR2 seeds. It
hopes to launch them in Brazil for next season, which starts in
September. But it agreed to roll out the seeds commercially only after
China, Brazil's main soy client, approves the technology, which it has
failed to do so far.

Monsanto wants to charge five times more in royalties for RR2 compared
with RR1, arguing that it offers much greater gains in yields and cost
reductions. Earlier this year, a Monsanto representative announced at a
farm show in southern Brazil that it would charge R$115 per hectare
($23.28 per acre) for the new seed.

(AG)

© Copyright 2013 DTN/The Progressive Farmer. All rights reserved.
Monsanto Suffers Key Court Loss on Brazil RR1 Royalties
Brazil's top appeals court Thursday reiterated its ruling that
Monsanto's patent on first-generation RoundUp Ready soybeans expired in
September 2010 and the U.S. biotech giant had been charging royalties
illegally for over two years.

The unanimous decision puts another dent in Monsanto's claim that it has
the right to charge royalties in Brazil until 2014, in line with the
rest of the world.

Monsanto will appeal the ruling at Brazil's appeals court and also at
the Supreme Court, the St. Louis-based company said in a statement,
adding that it remained 'confident in its rights and the validity of its
RR1 soybean patent until 2014.'

But farmer representatives said the appeals court justices' decision
leaves Monsanto's position in tatters.

"The Supreme Appeals Court put a full stop to Monsanto's decision to
insist in not following the law," said Ricardo Tomczyk, vice-president
of the Mato Grosso Soybean and Corn Producers Association (APROSOJA-MT).

Farmers and Monsanto have been fighting over the expiry of the RR1
patent for a number of years. Following a series of legal reverses, in
February Monsanto suspended royalties on RR1 until a final legal
decision was reached.

APROSOJA is seeking that Monsanto repay royalty payments made between
2010 and 2013 at double the initial value.

RoundUp Ready dominates the Brazilian soybean market with the gene
present in approximately 85% of locally produced beans. Up until today,
Monsanto charged RoundUp royalties at 2% on seeds or at $3.60 to $4.80
per acre on planted land.

Monsanto is keen to close this case before it launches Intacta RR2 Pro
soybeans in Brazil.

In January, it signed a general agreement with Brazil's National
Agricultural Confederation (CNA) and 10 state farm federations under
which it offered to waive future royalties on RR1, if farmers waived the
right to sue for past royalties.

The deal caused c

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[salyavin808]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "card"  wrote:
>
> 
> Salya, FWIW, I bet you've never had flying dreams, at
> least not very lucid ones, or, Lawd have mercy, an OBE! :D

I'm intrigued as to why you'd bet that Card. I used to get them
a lot, really amazing feeling and when I woke up I couldn't
believe it wasn't possible not to just jump in the sky and go
wherever I wanted. Convinced?

I'd love an OBE and have met a few who have had them but as
convinced as they are that they were out of their bodies, I
remain unconvinced that it's anything other than a shift of
perception. But some doctors in UK hospitals are interested
enough by anecdote to have put some unusual objects on shelves
in operating theatres that it would be impossible for anyone
brought in on a trolley to know what they are. So if anyone 
has an OBE the first question that will get asked is: what
was on the shelf?

I always say I convert for evidence, some consistent hits
like that would be a good start at paradigm shifting!



> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> > >
> > > Salyavin wrote:  Once you have enough brain cells you have 
> > > consciousness.  Share asks:  I've been reading all of today's posts, 
> > > again with mixed success.  Anyway, I'm guessing that I have the same 
> > > amount of brain cells right now that I had during last night when I was 
> > > dreaming and also when I was sleeping without dreams.  I was pretty 
> > > conscious during the dreams.  I feel very conscious at this moment.  
> > > But I'm pretty sure I was not conscious during the whole night.  So it 
> > > would seem that even though the number of brain cells remains constant, 
> > > consciousness, as an experience, does not.      
> > 
> > I meant that you need a certain amount to generate consciousness
> > anyway. They stay amount stays the same overnight. But the fact 
> > that it gets switched off at night is another interesting 
> > evolutionary adaptation. Must take up a lot of energy generating 
> > all that bright inner awareness. The brain needs a bit of down time
> > to assimilate the days events and reset itself or we go mad. Really.
> > And then there's keeping us out of trouble in the dark where our
> > primary sense isn't any use. Amazing thing really.
> > 
> > I got knocked out and lost my memory once, that was interesting.
> > I'll do a post about it tomorrow as it had a lot of fascinating
> > features for a philosophical chap like me.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > > 
> > > PS  I realize I'm taking little baby steps.  It's the best I can do 
> > > with this topic.  Thanks for your patience.  BTW, speaking of the hot 
> > > human brain, scientists have recently theorized that one of the functions 
> > > of yawning is to cool the brain.  
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > >  From: salyavin808 
> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:31 PM
> > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, 
> > > Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > "The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. 
> > > > > > But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been 
> > > > > > uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual 
> > > > > > loading of the kundela creates a "spear of thought" which 
> > > > > > pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as 
> > > > > > if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is 
> > > > > > certain."
> > > > > 
> > > > > Anxiety is a powerful thing. 
> > > > 
> > > > So it seems. The "cause" of the anxiety was of course a purely
> > > > mental thing (or a thing in the realm of "meaning"), and
> > > > NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not
> > > > the cause.
> > > 
> > > When I think "anxiety" I think "adrenalin" which is physical. 
> > > The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct,
> > > which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of
> > > can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of 
> > > any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest
> > > of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered.
> > > 
> > > For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin
> > > dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience.
> > > Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road.
> > > Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that
> > > when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world,
> > > it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows 
> > > in the brain so you can't think logically but can only

[FairfieldLife] Re: What a Yahoo bug reveals about FFL

[doctordumbass]

and you think you are some kind of ENIGMA, on here, Bud?
 
...Oh, who was that, just posted that last post in FFL endlessly bitching about 
something in his past that SHOULD BE FIXED, but isn't? Think it was Barry?? 
...Talk about a signature. 

It would be unprecedented to see you go a whole week, without getting your 
panties in a twist about SOMETHING. Standing bet: I'll give you a quarter if 
you ever do it.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> Merely an observation, occasioned by the fact that the 
> Yahoo Web reader seems to have developed a bug today
> that causes it to hide the names of the poster when 
> you read posts by clicking Next to view them in posting
> order. You can still see the posters' names in Message 
> View, but when reading the individual messages, the 
> name field is blank. 
> 
> The observation is that I never needed to see the
> names to know who made the posts. 
> 
> The "styles" and beliefs of posters have become so
> recognizable and predictable over the years that there 
> was never any question whose posts I was reading. 
> 
> Try it. See if I'm wrong...
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] FW: CNN Breaking News

[Bhairitu]

On 05/20/2013 01:29 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
>   
>
> From: CNN Breaking News [mailto:breakingn...@mail.cnn.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:04 PM
> To: textbreakingn...@ema3lsv06.turner.com
> Subject: CNN Breaking News
>
>   
>
> A new CNN/ORC International poll shows that President Barack Obama remains
> popular and a majority of Americans continue to think he is honest and has
> managed the government effectively, while the tea party movement got a boost
> after being targeted by the IRS.
>
> The survey was taken last week after the IRS, Benghazi and Associated Press
> controversies marked one of the worst weeks for the White House. It asked if
> Obama is a strong leader, with 58% saying he is, a level he last reached
> just after the death of Osama bin Laden in 2011.
>
> The tea party movement's overall favorable rating is up nine points to 37%
> since March; 45% hold an unfavorable view of the tea party, the poll shows.
>
> Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, a favorite for the Democratic
> presidential nomination if she runs in 2016, continues to hold a favorable
> rating over 60%.
>
> The survey, conducted May 17-18, has a sampling error of +/- 3 percentage po
> ints.
>
> Follow complete coverage of breaking news on CNN TV, http://cnn.com and CNN
> Mobile.

Rah, rah, rah for Wall Street?  I'm very disappointed with this 
administration.  Dumbed down Americans are probably not worth polling 
anyway.  They're mostly a pile of know nothings though they can probably 
tell you all about Lindsay Lohan.  And a CNN poll would even be worse.  
American politics, both right and left, are a sham.

We know the IRS and tax system needs an overhaul.  It is an insult to 
ALL Americans.

[FairfieldLife] Re: What a Yahoo bug reveals about FFL

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > One would have to be pretty dense not to be able to
> > recognize the posters by their writing styles alone,
> > or even simply by the way they format their posts.
> 
> Says the person who staked her reputation as a 
> "professional editor" on the belief that the
> person posting as "enlightened_dawn11" was not
> Jim Flanegin.  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)

Just a TENY bit different there, but you knew that.

[FairfieldLife] Re: What a Yahoo bug reveals about FFL

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> One would have to be pretty dense not to be able to
> recognize the posters by their writing styles alone,
> or even simply by the way they format their posts.

Says the person who staked her reputation as a 
"professional editor" on the belief that the
person posting as "enlightened_dawn11" was not
Jim Flanegin.  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)

[FairfieldLife] FW: CNN Breaking News

[Rick Archer]

 

From: CNN Breaking News [mailto:breakingn...@mail.cnn.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:04 PM
To: textbreakingn...@ema3lsv06.turner.com
Subject: CNN Breaking News

 

A new CNN/ORC International poll shows that President Barack Obama remains
popular and a majority of Americans continue to think he is honest and has
managed the government effectively, while the tea party movement got a boost
after being targeted by the IRS. 

The survey was taken last week after the IRS, Benghazi and Associated Press
controversies marked one of the worst weeks for the White House. It asked if
Obama is a strong leader, with 58% saying he is, a level he last reached
just after the death of Osama bin Laden in 2011. 

The tea party movement's overall favorable rating is up nine points to 37%
since March; 45% hold an unfavorable view of the tea party, the poll shows. 

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, a favorite for the Democratic
presidential nomination if she runs in 2016, continues to hold a favorable
rating over 60%. 

The survey, conducted May 17-18, has a sampling error of +/- 3 percentage po
ints. 

Follow complete coverage of breaking news on CNN TV, http://cnn.com and CNN
Mobile. 

 

[FairfieldLife] Re: What a Yahoo bug reveals about FFL

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> Merely an observation, occasioned by the fact that the 
> Yahoo Web reader seems to have developed a bug today
> that causes it to hide the names of the poster when 
> you read posts by clicking Next to view them in posting
> order. You can still see the posters' names in Message 
> View, but when reading the individual messages, the 
> name field is blank. 
> 
> The observation is that I never needed to see the
> names to know who made the posts.

How come you're not using Message View to go through
the posts as you claim you always do?

> The "styles" and beliefs of posters have become so
> recognizable and predictable over the years that there 
> was never any question whose posts I was reading. 
> 
> Try it. See if I'm wrong...

One would have to be pretty dense not to be able to
recognize the posters by their writing styles alone,
or even simply by the way they format their posts.

And goodness knows there's never any question of who
is writing *Barry's* posts, regardless of writing
style and formatting.

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> >
> > Yep, a functioning brain is the seat of consciousness but
> > groups like the TMO will attempt to weaken that idea for
> > their own agenda.
> 
> Exactly. While I appreciate your tenacity and infinite
> patience in trying to have a rational conversation with
> irrational people, I'll stay out of it. You're having
> the discussion with religious fanatics who are not even
> defending a position they came to on their own, but one
> that was told to them by some guy wearing a white sheet,
> who they chose to believe and onto whom they project 
> unwarranted wisdom.

Wow, Barry's wrong *again*. He hasn't actually read the
posts, so he isn't aware there's a nonreligious case to
be made for consciousness not being explainable on the
basis of biology.

But then, salyavin's been making the same mistake, and
he *has* been reading the posts.

Makes you wonder who the Fundamentalists are, don't it?

[FairfieldLife] What a Yahoo bug reveals about FFL

[turquoiseb]

Merely an observation, occasioned by the fact that the 
Yahoo Web reader seems to have developed a bug today
that causes it to hide the names of the poster when 
you read posts by clicking Next to view them in posting
order. You can still see the posters' names in Message 
View, but when reading the individual messages, the 
name field is blank. 

The observation is that I never needed to see the
names to know who made the posts. 

The "styles" and beliefs of posters have become so
recognizable and predictable over the years that there 
was never any question whose posts I was reading. 

Try it. See if I'm wrong...

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[card]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> 
> > It doesn't contradict anything I've said about consciousness 
> > anyway. Placing of brain structures is well understood, it
> > can be predicted what functions people will lose or have
> > difficulty with after a damage to the brain.
> 
> I'm not convinced by your bravado here. On the contrary,
> it seems to me that our expectations have been confounded,
> not confirmed.
> 
> I am not a brain scientist (and I take it neither are you).
> But here we have Scientific American:
> 
> "Neurosurgeons have performed the operation on children
> as young as three months old. Astonishingly, memory and
> personality develop normally."
> 
> Why do they say "astonishingly"? Or:
> 
> "Remarkably, few other impacts are seen. If the left side
> of the brain is taken out, "most people have problems with
> their speech, but it used to be thought that if you took
> that side out after age two, you'd never talk again, and
> we've proven that untrue," Freeman says. "The younger a
> person is when they undergo hemispherectomy, the less
> disability you have in talking. Where on the right side
> of the brain speech is transferred to and what it displaces
> is something nobody has really worked out."
> 
> Why do they say "Remarkably"?
>

My wild guess is the astral (suukSma-shariira) counterpart of the left side
is to "blame"... ;-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
>
> Yep, a functioning brain is the seat of consciousness but groups
> like the TMO will attempt to weaken that idea for their own agenda.

Exactly. While I appreciate your tenacity and infinite
patience in trying to have a rational conversation with
irrational people, I'll stay out of it. You're having
the discussion with religious fanatics who are not even
defending a position they came to on their own, but one
that was told to them by some guy wearing a white sheet,
who they chose to believe and onto whom they project 
unwarranted wisdom. 

My bet is that if Maharishi had said that consciousness
was the result of little green fairies dancing to the
sounds of a heavenly orchestra led by Lawrence Welk, 
they'd be here arguing the quantum physics of the
accordion, using slides prepared by John Hagelin. :-)

I honestly don't know which current conversation is more
ludicrous -- the people clinging to a belief in astrology/
Jyotish because they want to believe that life is predict-
able, or the people clinging to a belief in consciousness
not requiring a body because they want to believe that
their individual consciousness survives death. 

I'm going to wait for more meaningful philosophical 
conversations, such as the reasons TBs will come up with
for why the guy who threw 100 million dollars at perpet-
uating the myth that the Maharishi Effect actually *does* 
something is suffering from financial difficulties. Seems 
to me that if the so-called and often-praised Laws Of 
Nature actually existed, if anyone deserved a little 
reach-around from them, it'd be him. :-)

In the meantime, I'll just amuse myself by reading "suck
it up and work in the afternoons" speeches from people 
who have been sucking up cushy salaries from the TMO
for the last few decades, and still are. After all, it's
not as if *they* are concerned about where their rent 
money will come from. And for that matter, it's not as 
if *they* have ever been seen in the domes themselves 
(someone may correct me if I'm wrong about this...I'm 
basing it on things said here in the past). 

One thing you've got to say about the TM movement -- it
never fails to amuse...  :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[card]

Salya, FWIW, I bet you've never had flying dreams, at
least not very lucid ones, or, Lawd have mercy, an OBE! :D


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> >
> > Salyavin wrote:  Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness. 
> >  Share asks:  I've been reading all of today's posts, again with mixed 
> > success.  Anyway, I'm guessing that I have the same amount of brain cells 
> > right now that I had during last night when I was dreaming and also when I 
> > was sleeping without dreams.  I was pretty conscious during the dreams.  
> > I feel very conscious at this moment.  But I'm pretty sure I was not 
> > conscious during the whole night.  So it would seem that even though the 
> > number of brain cells remains constant, consciousness, as an experience, 
> > does not.      
> 
> I meant that you need a certain amount to generate consciousness
> anyway. They stay amount stays the same overnight. But the fact 
> that it gets switched off at night is another interesting 
> evolutionary adaptation. Must take up a lot of energy generating 
> all that bright inner awareness. The brain needs a bit of down time
> to assimilate the days events and reset itself or we go mad. Really.
> And then there's keeping us out of trouble in the dark where our
> primary sense isn't any use. Amazing thing really.
> 
> I got knocked out and lost my memory once, that was interesting.
> I'll do a post about it tomorrow as it had a lot of fascinating
> features for a philosophical chap like me.
> 
> 
> 
>  
> > 
> > PS  I realize I'm taking little baby steps.  It's the best I can do with 
> > this topic.  Thanks for your patience.  BTW, speaking of the hot human 
> > brain, scientists have recently theorized that one of the functions of 
> > yawning is to cool the brain.  
> 
> 
> > 
> >  From: salyavin808 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:31 PM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> > Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
> >  
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > "The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. 
> > > > > But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been 
> > > > > uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual 
> > > > > loading of the kundela creates a "spear of thought" which 
> > > > > pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as 
> > > > > if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is 
> > > > > certain."
> > > > 
> > > > Anxiety is a powerful thing. 
> > > 
> > > So it seems. The "cause" of the anxiety was of course a purely
> > > mental thing (or a thing in the realm of "meaning"), and
> > > NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not
> > > the cause.
> > 
> > When I think "anxiety" I think "adrenalin" which is physical. 
> > The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct,
> > which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of
> > can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of 
> > any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest
> > of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered.
> > 
> > For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin
> > dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience.
> > Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road.
> > Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that
> > when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world,
> > it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows 
> > in the brain so you can't think logically but can only think
> > of running away or fighting. To enable this it drags sugars out 
> > of the liver and into the blood and draws blood from the stomach
> > into the muscles.
> > 
> > Best of all, any experience you have when in an aroused state
> > gets tagged by the brain as being threatening and will cause a
> > similar reaction if you keep having the same stimulus. This is how neuroses 
> > develop, like agoraphobia or social shyness. Anxiety
> > can and does pollute the whole brain, mind system. Your voodoo
> > cult member is primed from childhood to die on command.
> > 
> > The point I'm making is, I don't see it as mind and matter,
> > it's all the same thing to me, you can't seperate them, they
> > don't work without each other. This is what I'm saying about
> > consciousness, it's a function. Once you have enough brain
> > cells you have consciousness. Emergent phenomena and it can
> > no more be understood in terms of individual brain cells than
> > wetness can be understood in terms of individual water molecules.
> > 
> > > > Why do you think this proves

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[salyavin808]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
>
> Salyavin wrote:  Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness.  
> Share asks:  I've been reading all of today's posts, again with mixed 
> success.  Anyway, I'm guessing that I have the same amount of brain cells 
> right now that I had during last night when I was dreaming and also when I 
> was sleeping without dreams.  I was pretty conscious during the dreams.  I 
> feel very conscious at this moment.  But I'm pretty sure I was not conscious 
> during the whole night.  So it would seem that even though the number of 
> brain cells remains constant, consciousness, as an experience, does not.   
>    

I meant that you need a certain amount to generate consciousness
anyway. They stay amount stays the same overnight. But the fact 
that it gets switched off at night is another interesting 
evolutionary adaptation. Must take up a lot of energy generating 
all that bright inner awareness. The brain needs a bit of down time
to assimilate the days events and reset itself or we go mad. Really.
And then there's keeping us out of trouble in the dark where our
primary sense isn't any use. Amazing thing really.

I got knocked out and lost my memory once, that was interesting.
I'll do a post about it tomorrow as it had a lot of fascinating
features for a philosophical chap like me.



 
> 
> PS  I realize I'm taking little baby steps.  It's the best I can do with 
> this topic.  Thanks for your patience.  BTW, speaking of the hot human 
> brain, scientists have recently theorized that one of the functions of 
> yawning is to cool the brain.  


> 
>  From: salyavin808 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:31 PM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
>  
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > > "The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. 
> > > > But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been 
> > > > uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual 
> > > > loading of the kundela creates a "spear of thought" which 
> > > > pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as 
> > > > if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is 
> > > > certain."
> > > 
> > > Anxiety is a powerful thing. 
> > 
> > So it seems. The "cause" of the anxiety was of course a purely
> > mental thing (or a thing in the realm of "meaning"), and
> > NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not
> > the cause.
> 
> When I think "anxiety" I think "adrenalin" which is physical. 
> The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct,
> which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of
> can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of 
> any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest
> of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered.
> 
> For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin
> dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience.
> Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road.
> Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that
> when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world,
> it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows 
> in the brain so you can't think logically but can only think
> of running away or fighting. To enable this it drags sugars out 
> of the liver and into the blood and draws blood from the stomach
> into the muscles.
> 
> Best of all, any experience you have when in an aroused state
> gets tagged by the brain as being threatening and will cause a
> similar reaction if you keep having the same stimulus. This is how neuroses 
> develop, like agoraphobia or social shyness. Anxiety
> can and does pollute the whole brain, mind system. Your voodoo
> cult member is primed from childhood to die on command.
> 
> The point I'm making is, I don't see it as mind and matter,
> it's all the same thing to me, you can't seperate them, they
> don't work without each other. This is what I'm saying about
> consciousness, it's a function. Once you have enough brain
> cells you have consciousness. Emergent phenomena and it can
> no more be understood in terms of individual brain cells than
> wetness can be understood in terms of individual water molecules.
> 
> > > Why do you think this proves 
> > > something pertinent to the argument here? It's like you've just
> > > googled odd stuff about the brain and drawn some whoppingly
> > > unnecessary argument out of it.
> > 
> > It's about the world of the mental and the world of meaning
> > (the latter I think I'd prefer), and about how those worlds
> > can, sometimes, extinguish the world of the "merely" physical.
> > Beca

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[Share Long]

Salyavin wrote:  Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness.  
Share asks:  I've been reading all of today's posts, again with mixed success.  
Anyway, I'm guessing that I have the same amount of brain cells right now that 
I had during last night when I was dreaming and also when I was sleeping 
without dreams.  I was pretty conscious during the dreams.  I feel very 
conscious at this moment.  But I'm pretty sure I was not conscious during the 
whole night.  So it would seem that even though the number of brain cells 
remains constant, consciousness, as an experience, does not.      


PS  I realize I'm taking little baby steps.  It's the best I can do with this 
topic.  Thanks for your patience.  BTW, speaking of the hot human brain, 
scientists have recently theorized that one of the functions of yawning is to 
cool the brain.  



 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:31 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
 


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> 
> > > "The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. 
> > > But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been 
> > > uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual 
> > > loading of the kundela creates a "spear of thought" which 
> > > pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as 
> > > if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is 
> > > certain."
> > 
> > Anxiety is a powerful thing. 
> 
> So it seems. The "cause" of the anxiety was of course a purely
> mental thing (or a thing in the realm of "meaning"), and
> NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not
> the cause.

When I think "anxiety" I think "adrenalin" which is physical. 
The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct,
which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of
can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of 
any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest
of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered.

For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin
dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience.
Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road.
Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that
when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world,
it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows 
in the brain so you can't think logically but can only think
of running away or fighting. To enable this it drags sugars out 
of the liver and into the blood and draws blood from the stomach
into the muscles.

Best of all, any experience you have when in an aroused state
gets tagged by the brain as being threatening and will cause a
similar reaction if you keep having the same stimulus. This is how neuroses 
develop, like agoraphobia or social shyness. Anxiety
can and does pollute the whole brain, mind system. Your voodoo
cult member is primed from childhood to die on command.

The point I'm making is, I don't see it as mind and matter,
it's all the same thing to me, you can't seperate them, they
don't work without each other. This is what I'm saying about
consciousness, it's a function. Once you have enough brain
cells you have consciousness. Emergent phenomena and it can
no more be understood in terms of individual brain cells than
wetness can be understood in terms of individual water molecules.

> > Why do you think this proves 
> > something pertinent to the argument here? It's like you've just
> > googled odd stuff about the brain and drawn some whoppingly
> > unnecessary argument out of it.
> 
> It's about the world of the mental and the world of meaning
> (the latter I think I'd prefer), and about how those worlds
> can, sometimes, extinguish the world of the "merely" physical.
> Because they are equally (or maybe more) real.


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit

[Bhairitu]

On 05/20/2013 11:33 AM, John wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
>>
>>
>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
>>> Ann,
>>>
>>> Please, read my response to Share on this same thread.  I'm surprised 
>>> there's such interest in the chart of Red China.
>>>
>>> JR
>> I have to be honest with you JR, I was kind of making a joke about it all 
>> (but you knew that). I mean, of all the countries, China is one of the most 
>> ancient and determining its actual moment of inception would be pretty hard 
>> to figure out. I do admire you, however, for two reasons: you seem to be a 
>> particularly nice fellow and your knowledge of Jyotish is extensive. 
>> However, I do find it comical (and it may well be because I am ignorant of 
>> the subject) but determining the astrological chart of anything other than a 
>> human being seems fairly absurd. However, I am prepared to be enlightened on 
>> why this is not necessarily so if this is not the case.
> Ann,
>
> The birth of a nation, a political system, an organization, and even a 
> thought or idea is similar to the birth of an individual.  In jyotish, the 
> birth time is the point in time when the lagna occurs, meaning that this is 
> the time the planets "grasp" the person or entity with its karmic quality.  
> This can be interpreted by casting the horoscope of that specific time which 
> shows the placement of the planets in the zodiac.
>
> IMO, in using the concepts in modern day quantum physics, the ascendant 
> determines the special combination of wave functions from the various planets 
> which interacts with the wave function of the person or entity in question.  
> We can also say the ascendant is the superposition of all the wave functions 
> of the planets as they relate to the individual's unique wave function or 
> signature.  This superposition of waves can be understood in human terms by 
> using the ancient methods outlined in jyotish.
>
> In short, everything in the universe is related to each other.  I hope this 
> helps.
>
> JR

Most astrologers would use the birth chart for the People's Republic of 
China:

Beijing
October 1st, 1949
3:01 PM AWST (-8:00)
116E25 39N55

(Time may have been rectified)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit

[John]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
> >
> > Ann,
> > 
> > Please, read my response to Share on this same thread.  I'm surprised 
> > there's such interest in the chart of Red China.
> > 
> > JR
> 
> I have to be honest with you JR, I was kind of making a joke about it all 
> (but you knew that). I mean, of all the countries, China is one of the most 
> ancient and determining its actual moment of inception would be pretty hard 
> to figure out. I do admire you, however, for two reasons: you seem to be a 
> particularly nice fellow and your knowledge of Jyotish is extensive. However, 
> I do find it comical (and it may well be because I am ignorant of the 
> subject) but determining the astrological chart of anything other than a 
> human being seems fairly absurd. However, I am prepared to be enlightened on 
> why this is not necessarily so if this is not the case.

Ann,

The birth of a nation, a political system, an organization, and even a thought 
or idea is similar to the birth of an individual.  In jyotish, the birth time 
is the point in time when the lagna occurs, meaning that this is the time the 
planets "grasp" the person or entity with its karmic quality.  This can be 
interpreted by casting the horoscope of that specific time which shows the 
placement of the planets in the zodiac.

IMO, in using the concepts in modern day quantum physics, the ascendant 
determines the special combination of wave functions from the various planets 
which interacts with the wave function of the person or entity in question.  We 
can also say the ascendant is the superposition of all the wave functions of 
the planets as they relate to the individual's unique wave function or 
signature.  This superposition of waves can be understood in human terms by 
using the ancient methods outlined in jyotish.

In short, everything in the universe is related to each other.  I hope this 
helps.

JR












> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > John, thank you for explaining this.  It'll be interesting to see how 
> > > > it all plays out.  Any jyotish chart for China?
> > > 
> > > When was China born?
> > > 
> > >   Wonder how it compares to US.  Good compatibility?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  From: John 
> > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:44 PM
> > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > Share,
> > > > 
> > > > Red China obviously wants to trade with the USA since we are a heavy 
> > > > consumer of goods that they manufacture.  So, in that sense, they would 
> > > > prefer for the USA to stay afloat as a nation.
> > > > 
> > > > They have also lent the US money to the tune of about one trillion 
> > > > dollars.  So, they have a heavy investment in our country thinking that 
> > > > we can pay the interest for the loaned amount.  If they didn't think we 
> > > > can pay for the loans, they could sell the bonds they're holding in the 
> > > > open market at any time.
> > > > 
> > > > Most of the US national debt are actually owed to Americans themselves, 
> > > > such as the Social Security Fund, Medicare Funds, Private Investment 
> > > > Funds, State Funds, Union Funds and others.
> > > > 
> > > > JR
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > What I've heard is that they think that if the US economy tanks, they 
> > > > > tank.  So it's in their self interest to help the US.  You 
> > > > > know, by not calling in all those markers of ours they hold.  Is 
> > > > > there anything to this idea?
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >  From: John 
> > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:56 PM
> > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >   
> > > > > Share,
> > > > > 
> > > > > From what I understand they are still a communist nation which 
> > > > > forbids any religion other than the state itself.  Will they continue 
> > > > > to practice the self interest of the state, a communist and atheistic 
> > > > > one, may not be too good for the rest of the world.
> > > > > 
> > > > > JR
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John, I don't think their agenda is much of a secret any 
> > > > > > longer.  But it will be interesting to see how connected 
> > > > > > they feel to the rest of the world.  Meaning will they 
> > > > > > practice wise self interest or unwise?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > __

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[salyavin808]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> 
> > > "The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. 
> > > But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been 
> > > uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual 
> > > loading of the kundela creates a "spear of thought" which 
> > > pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as 
> > > if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is 
> > > certain."
> > 
> > Anxiety is a powerful thing. 
> 
> So it seems. The "cause" of the anxiety was of course a purely
> mental thing (or a thing in the realm of "meaning"), and
> NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not
> the cause.

When I think "anxiety" I think "adrenalin" which is physical. 
The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct,
which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of
can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of 
any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest
of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered.

For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin
dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience.
Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road.
Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that
when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world,
it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows 
in the brain so you can't think logically but can only think
of running away or fighting. To enable this it drags sugars out 
of the liver and into the blood and draws blood from the stomach
into the muscles.

Best of all, any experience you have when in an aroused state
gets tagged by the brain as being threatening and will cause a
similar reaction if you keep having the same stimulus. This is how neuroses 
develop, like agoraphobia or social shyness. Anxiety
can and does pollute the whole brain, mind system. Your voodoo
cult member is primed from childhood to die on command.

The point I'm making is, I don't see it as mind and matter,
it's all the same thing to me, you can't seperate them, they
don't work without each other. This is what I'm saying about
consciousness, it's a function. Once you have enough brain
cells you have consciousness. Emergent phenomena and it can
no more be understood in terms of individual brain cells than
wetness can be understood in terms of individual water molecules.

 
> > Why do you think this proves 
> > something pertinent to the argument here? It's like you've just
> > googled odd stuff about the brain and drawn some whoppingly
> > unnecessary argument out of it.
> 
> It's about the world of the mental and the world of meaning
> (the latter I think I'd prefer), and about how those worlds
> can, sometimes, extinguish the world of the "merely" physical.
> Because they are equally (or maybe more) real.

[FairfieldLife] Important change in the Invincible America Assembly

[Dick Mays]

Begin forwarded message:
From: "Dr. Bevan Morris" 
Date: May 20, 2013 12:56:41 PM CDT

Dear Friend of Maharishi University of Management,

The Settle Foundation is facing financial challenges due to difficulties that 
have arisen in the past five months in the business that underlies the 
foundation's giving.

Word of this has reached the Invincible America Assembly grant recipients, so 
Raja John Hagelin asked me to explain the situation to everyone on the 
Assembly, which I did on Thursday.

I explained that the Settle grants would be coming to an end over the next 
months.

I said everyone should quickly make plans to be self-sufficient through 
"cashing in" in the afternoon (i.e., working at a job in the afternoon) as 
Maharishi described it, or any other approach, including, at least for some, 
personal funds.

I also said Raja John Hagelin, Raja Wynne and Maureen, Raja Bob Lopinto, Raja 
Harris and myself are trying to come up with a plan for new sources of income 
that will allow the program to continue as much as possible, and we are talking 
to our Indian leaders about this. Of course, supporting the 600 Vedic Pandits 
we have here now is extremely important, and if we are successful in raising 
new funds, bringing the 400 Maharishi Vedic Pandits who are in India waiting to 
come, to create a much higher level of national coherence.

I emphasized that in the future the grant, when available, would probably be 
for a smaller number of Yogic Flyers, especially the most active flyers, who do 
really long flying and make a long-term commitment to the Invincible America 
Assembly program. Maharishi said this from the beginning and Dr. Doug and Dr. 
Linda Birx have been working on this throughout. This will reduce the numbers, 
but we will have a more powerful group.

I pointed out the present situation means that we have been depending on the 
generosity of Howard and Alice too much. We need to take responsibility afresh 
to engage all the Sidhas of America in national invincibility.

The response was extremely beautiful. Speaker after speaker sent their infinite 
love and gratitude to the Settles, saying they understand how they must be 
feeling, and want them only to feel the depth of their gratitude and love. 

The common feeling was that the Invincible America Assembly will continue even 
without the grant. The Assembly Maharishi created even before there was a 
grant, and it will continue even now that the grant is not possible for some 
time. Some also said they would apply to become Maharishi University of 
Management students so they could use financial aid to continue.

They suggested we fly at the same time as the 8,000 Yogic Flyers in Oaxaca, 
Mexico, that we adjust lift-off for flying time to accommodate people with jobs 
in Fairfield, and other positive ideas. They reminded us that Maharishi said, 
"I am—India and America for a bright future for the world" and we have to 
fulfill Maharishi's direction, all of us together. 

It was a very moving and even blissful occasion. We will continue in the 
Invincible America Assembly experience session with more thinking from everyone.

A new campaign is also starting for all Sidhas in Fairfield, Maharishi Vedic 
City, and nationally to participate in the Invincible America Assembly to 
create a better fortune for the nation.

We are all so grateful to Howard and Alice for giving nearly $100 million over 
the past seven years—it is really just phenomenal and historic—and we know that 
they will continue to do everything to support national invincibility.

With Best Wishes,

Jai Guru Dev

Bevan

[FairfieldLife] Important change in the Invincible America Assembly

[Rick Archer]

--- On Mon, 5/20/13, Dr. Bevan Morris mailto:developm...@mum.edu> > wrote:


From: Dr. Bevan Morris mailto:developm...@mum.edu> >
Subject: Important change in the Invincible America Assembly
Date: Monday, May 20, 2013, 1:01 PM


Dear Friend of Maharishi University of Management,

The Settle Foundation is facing financial challenges due to difficulties that 
have arisen in the past five months in the business that underlies the 
foundation's giving.

Word of this has reached the Invincible America Assembly grant recipients, so 
Raja John Hagelin asked me to explain the situation to everyone on the 
Assembly, which I did on Thursday.

I explained that the Settle grants would be coming to an end over the next 
months.

I said everyone should quickly make plans to be self-sufficient through 
"cashing in" in the afternoon (i.e., working at a job in the afternoon) as 
Maharishi described it, or any other approach, including, at least for some, 
personal funds.

I also said Raja John Hagelin, Raja Wynne and Maureen, Raja Bob Lopinto, Raja 
Harris and myself are trying to come up with a plan for new sources of income 
that will allow the program to continue as much as possible, and we are talking 
to our Indian leaders about this. Of course, supporting the 600 Vedic Pandits 
we have here now is extremely important, and if we are successful in raising 
new funds, bringing the 400 Maharishi Vedic Pandits who are in India waiting to 
come, to create a much higher level of national coherence.

I emphasized that in the future the grant, when available, would probably be 
for a smaller number of Yogic Flyers, especially the most active flyers, who do 
really long flying and make a long-term commitment to the Invincible America 
Assembly program. Maharishi said this from the beginning and Dr. Doug and Dr. 
Linda Birx have been working on this throughout. This will reduce the numbers, 
but we will have a more powerful group.

I pointed out the present situation means that we have been depending on the 
generosity of Howard and Alice too much. We need to take responsibility afresh 
to engage all the Sidhas of America in national invincibility.

The response was extremely beautiful. Speaker after speaker sent their infinite 
love and gratitude to the Settles, saying they understand how they must be 
feeling, and want them only to feel the depth of their gratitude and love. 

The common feeling was that the Invincible America Assembly will continue even 
without the grant. The Assembly Maharishi created even before there was a 
grant, and it will continue even now that the grant is not possible for some 
time. Some also said they would apply to become Maharishi University of 
Management students so they could use financial aid to continue.

They suggested we fly at the same time as the 8,000 Yogic Flyers in Oaxaca, 
Mexico, that we adjust lift-off for flying time to accommodate people with jobs 
in Fairfield, and other positive ideas. They reminded us that Maharishi said, 
"I am—India and America for a bright future for the world" and we have to 
fulfill Maharishi's direction, all of us together. 

It was a very moving and even blissful occasion. We will continue in the 
Invincible America Assembly experience session with more thinking from everyone.

A new campaign is also starting for all Sidhas in Fairfield, Maharishi Vedic 
City, and nationally to participate in the Invincible America Assembly to 
create a better fortune for the nation.

We are all so grateful to Howard and Alice for giving nearly $100 million over 
the past seven years—it is really just phenomenal and historic—and we know that 
they will continue to do everything to support national invincibility.

With Best Wishes,

Jai Guru Dev

Bevan

 

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[salyavin808]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> 
> > It doesn't contradict anything I've said about consciousness 
> > anyway. Placing of brain structures is well understood, it
> > can be predicted what functions people will lose or have
> > difficulty with after a damage to the brain.
> 
> I'm not convinced by your bravado here. On the contrary,
> it seems to me that our expectations have been confounded,
> not confirmed.

Yours perhaps, I didn't have expectations.

> 
> I am not a brain scientist (and I take it neither are you).
> But here we have Scientific American:
> 
> "Neurosurgeons have performed the operation on children
> as young as three months old. Astonishingly, memory and
> personality develop normally."
> 
> Why do they say "astonishingly"?

Ask them. I would expect that both halves of the brain share
memory building and personality. And maybe as they are so young
the personality traits that are usually covered by one side
get shifted to the other before they've started to be used
thus making them as developmentally strong they would have been
without the operation.

What happens in accident victims; if one bit of the brain
is lost a period of crazy unpredictability occurs until the 
functions are shared out with other parts. But it doesn't do 
the job fully, in the case of the person I know it left them 
more prone to anger, mood swings and impulsiveness. And that
was predicted by the surgeon who operated, in fact it's all 
anyone says when they see the x-rays.



Or:
> 
> "Remarkably, few other impacts are seen. If the left side
> of the brain is taken out, "most people have problems with
> their speech, but it used to be thought that if you took
> that side out after age two, you'd never talk again, and
> we've proven that untrue," Freeman says. "The younger a
> person is when they undergo hemispherectomy, the less
> disability you have in talking. Where on the right side
> of the brain speech is transferred to and what it displaces
> is something nobody has really worked out."
> 
> Why do they say "Remarkably"?


Why do you think this is so important to your argument?

I've told you, cutting the brain in half crossways has a radically
different effect than lengthways. It's just the way it's wired to
begin with, opposite hemispheres control the opposite side of the
body with functions copied. This isn't a mystery to anyone.

And it doesn't have anything to do with consciousness. And how
come I've known there are two speech centres in the brain for
years. Where did I get that info from? Ah yes, The Origin of
Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian
Jaynes. Now *there's* a book students of consciousness should read.
Not that it's the whole story (or even true perhaps) but there are enough 
factoids about brain wiring and function to keep you busy 
for a month. 


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit

[John]

Share,

Jyotish is an ancient science and covers all of the concerns that you've been 
thinking.  Yes, you're correct in assuming that the full Moon days have special 
qualities, but not necessarily violent.  Specifically, during the Full Moon in 
the summer, the Vedic culture, including the TMO, celebrates this day in honor 
of Guru Deva.

There are also special qualities of the Moon as it transits from the natal Moon 
sign.

The same principle applies to all of the planets as they transit from the natal 
Moon nakshatra and the lagna or ascendant.

For accurate predictions, all of these information would have to be synthesized 
by the jyotishi. 

JR



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
>
> Hey John I was thinking about jyotish, etc. this morning.  Remembering times 
> I read the Farmer's Almanac and how they suggested best days to plant 
> according to the phase of the moon.  And of course we know that the moon 
> affects the tides.  And we know that we're 70% water.  So it makes sense to 
> me that we're also affected by the moon's phases.  For example, I think 
> violence increases around the full moon.  Anyway, what if we're affected in 
> similar ways by the other planets, but not on the level of water.  Just 
> speculation, but it could be put to experimentation:  maybe Mars has an 
> effect on iron levels in the body, in Earth; maybe Saturn has an effect on 
> calcium levels;  maybe Venus has an effect on the levels of the pleasure 
> hormones.  What do you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From: John 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 10:24 PM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
>  
> 
> 
>   
> Share,
> 
> I don't have any credible source as to the natal chart of Red China.  I would 
> assume it would be the date and time when the People's Republic of China 
> officially became the ruler of the country.  I haven't researched this point 
> yet.  I'm sure it's available in the record books.
> 
> JR
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> >
> > John, thank you for explaining this.  It'll be interesting to see how it 
> > all plays out.  Any jyotish chart for China?  Wonder how it compares 
> > to US.  Good compatibility?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  From: John 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:44 PM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > Share,
> > 
> > Red China obviously wants to trade with the USA since we are a heavy 
> > consumer of goods that they manufacture.  So, in that sense, they would 
> > prefer for the USA to stay afloat as a nation.
> > 
> > They have also lent the US money to the tune of about one trillion dollars. 
> >  So, they have a heavy investment in our country thinking that we can pay 
> > the interest for the loaned amount.  If they didn't think we can pay for 
> > the loans, they could sell the bonds they're holding in the open market at 
> > any time.
> > 
> > Most of the US national debt are actually owed to Americans themselves, 
> > such as the Social Security Fund, Medicare Funds, Private Investment Funds, 
> > State Funds, Union Funds and others.
> > 
> > JR
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> > >
> > > What I've heard is that they think that if the US economy tanks, they 
> > > tank.  So it's in their self interest to help the US.  
> > > You know, by not calling in all those markers of ours they hold.  
> > > Is there anything to this idea?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  From: John 
> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:56 PM
> > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > Share,
> > > 
> > > From what I understand they are still a communist nation which forbids 
> > > any religion other than the state itself.  Will they continue to practice 
> > > the self interest of the state, a communist and atheistic one, may not be 
> > > too good for the rest of the world.
> > > 
> > > JR
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > John, I don't think their agenda is much of a secret any 
> > > > longer.ÃÆ'‚  But it will be interesting to see how 
> > > > connected they feel to the rest of the world.ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > Meaning will they practice wise self interest or unwise?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  From: John 
> > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:21 PM
> > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,

Re: [FairfieldLife] LifeMumbai (from VICE Ep 5)NOT most polluted,Calcutta,Bejing

[Bhairitu]

Have you ever been to Mumbai? I have. Nothing more wonderful than the 
smell of open sewers in the evening.

When I was there I could see that the scooter taxis needed catalytic 
converters.  Of course the owners couldn't afford them and if they were 
installed they would probably get stolen for the metals.  They even 
steal them off cars around here.

On 05/20/2013 10:03 AM, wle...@aol.com wrote:
> Also Mexico City on occasion are all worse then Mumbia
>   
>   
> In a message dated 5/20/2013 12:52:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> noozg...@sbcglobal.net writes:
>
> Here is  a clip from HBO's VICE episode 5 about workers in  Mumbai.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc9vOnAPrr4
>
> What the full  episode shows is the trophy skyscraper mansions that
> billionaires there  are building.  Talk about income disparity.  BTW,
> I've been to  Mumbai and can confirm it is the most polluted place on
> earth and a good  place to send climate change deniers for a couple  weeks.
>
>
>
> 
>
> To  subscribe, send a message  to:
> fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com
>
> Or go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> and click 'Join This  Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[PaliGap]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:

> > "The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. 
> > But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been 
> > uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual 
> > loading of the kundela creates a "spear of thought" which 
> > pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as 
> > if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is 
> > certain."
> 
> Anxiety is a powerful thing. 

So it seems. The "cause" of the anxiety was of course a purely
mental thing (or a thing in the realm of "meaning"), and
NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not
the cause.

> Why do you think this proves 
> something pertinent to the argument here? It's like you've just
> googled odd stuff about the brain and drawn some whoppingly
> unnecessary argument out of it.

It's about the world of the mental and the world of meaning
(the latter I think I'd prefer), and about how those worlds
can, sometimes, extinguish the world of the "merely" physical.
Because they are equally (or maybe more) real. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[PaliGap]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:

> It doesn't contradict anything I've said about consciousness 
> anyway. Placing of brain structures is well understood, it
> can be predicted what functions people will lose or have
> difficulty with after a damage to the brain.

I'm not convinced by your bravado here. On the contrary,
it seems to me that our expectations have been confounded,
not confirmed.

I am not a brain scientist (and I take it neither are you).
But here we have Scientific American:

"Neurosurgeons have performed the operation on children
as young as three months old. Astonishingly, memory and
personality develop normally."

Why do they say "astonishingly"? Or:

"Remarkably, few other impacts are seen. If the left side
of the brain is taken out, "most people have problems with
their speech, but it used to be thought that if you took
that side out after age two, you'd never talk again, and
we've proven that untrue," Freeman says. "The younger a
person is when they undergo hemispherectomy, the less
disability you have in talking. Where on the right side
of the brain speech is transferred to and what it displaces
is something nobody has really worked out."

Why do they say "Remarkably"?

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[PaliGap]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros 
> > Anartaxius"  wrote:
> > 
> > > We see other people, animals, and by their behaviour we
> > > deem them to be conscious. Yet if the brain of these
> > > beings is damaged in certain ways, that conscious 
> > > behaviour departs. Injection of certain drugs, such as
> > > Propofol (the one that killed the singer > Michael Jackson) 
> > > causes consciousness to slip away, even when > death does
> > > not occur. On this basis a scientist will conclude that
> > > the physical world, and the brain in particular, by virtue
> > > of its organisation, causes consciousness. Otherwise
> > > consciousness would not depart if the brain were destroyed.
> > 
> > I would hope that a scientist would NOT "on this basis" 
> > conclude that the brain "causes" consciousness. Or, as 
> > Salyavin808 would have it,  "creates" consciousness (using a 
> > similar form of reasoning). 
> 
> Hardly *just* that basis.
> 
>  
> > You both seem to be saying that "because damage to X results 
> > in damage to Y, and the destruction of X results in the 
> > destruction of Y, *therefore* X creates Y or X causes Y". This 
> > appears to me to be an obviously flawed line of reasoning 
> > (Judy has made this point previously). For example, take a 
> > statue made from marble. If you chip the marble, you damage 
> > the statue. If you destroy the marble you destroy the statue. 
> > "On this basis" is a scientist to conclude that the marble 
> > "causes" or "creates" the statue? 
> 
> That's an astoundingly weak argument. 

Quite so. As evinced by e.g. this:

"As it's brains that cause consciousness (get someone to hit
you on the head with a heavy object if you don't believe me)"
salyavin808

Apart from statements such as this, I don't feel I have seen
any OTHER reasoning hereabouts to the effect that "brains
cause consciousness". 

Plenty of assertions though. 

As an aside I would say that in these discussions we may be
muddling up some quite separate ideas too: 

1. Awareness as consciousness. The kind that we lose when hit
on the head.
2. Consciousness as in "deep sleep is a form of consciousness"
3. Consciousness as a privileged perspective (as in "what it
is like to be Dexter, my cat").
4. Consciousness as "being-in-the-world" as in Heidegger's "dasein"
"a form of being that is aware of and must confront such issues as
personhood, mortality and the dilemma or paradox of living in
relationship with other humans while being ultimately alone
with oneself" (I'm not well up on Heidegger!).  This may be the
same, or similar, to (3) above. But for me, it is the idea of
not just Nagel's "being a bat", but also "being-a-bat-through-
time". Ie. Being an Individual (or a soul if you prefer).

Re: [FairfieldLife] LifeMumbai (from VICE Ep 5)NOT most polluted,Calcutta,Bejing

[WLeed3]

Also Mexico City on occasion are all worse then Mumbia
 
 
In a message dated 5/20/2013 12:52:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
noozg...@sbcglobal.net writes:

Here is  a clip from HBO's VICE episode 5 about workers in  Mumbai.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc9vOnAPrr4

What the full  episode shows is the trophy skyscraper mansions that 
billionaires there  are building.  Talk about income disparity.  BTW, 
I've been to  Mumbai and can confirm it is the most polluted place on 
earth and a good  place to send climate change deniers for a couple  weeks.





To  subscribe, send a message  to:
fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com

Or go to:  
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This  Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
(snip)
> Yep, a functioning brain is the seat of consciousness but
> groups like the TMO will attempt to weaken that idea for
> their own agenda.

Salyavin, why don't you see if you can make your case
without leaving a trail of slain straw men?

Just to reiterate: Chalmers and Nagel and a number of
other non-TM, nonmystical, nonreligious philosophers
and scientists of excellent repute take the view that
consciousness is not adequately explained by biology
(and without invoking quantum mechanics or the
paranormal, either).

(snip)
> Because I don't believe the mystic mythos it just seems
> staggeringly obvious to me that it's all in the brain and
> totally dependent on it.

What if you didn't have the "mystic mythos" to beat up on,
would it be any less staggeringly obvious to you? Could
you then take a good look at the "hard problem" and apply
reductive principles to make the most basic fact of human
experience--what it is like to be oneself--go away?

[FairfieldLife] JLo digs Windoze Phoney?

[card]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BofL1AaiTjo

[FairfieldLife] Life in Mumbai (from VICE Ep 5)

[Bhairitu]

Here is a clip from HBO's VICE episode 5 about workers in Mumbai.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc9vOnAPrr4

What the full episode shows is the trophy skyscraper mansions that 
billionaires there are building.  Talk about income disparity.  BTW, 
I've been to Mumbai and can confirm it is the most polluted place on 
earth and a good place to send climate change deniers for a couple weeks.

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[salyavin808]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros 
> Anartaxius"  wrote:
> 
> > We see other people, animals, and by their behaviour we
> > deem them to be conscious. Yet if the brain of these
> > beings is damaged in certain ways, that conscious 
> > behaviour departs. Injection of certain drugs, such as
> > Propofol (the one that killed the singer > Michael Jackson) 
> > causes consciousness to slip away, even when > death does
> > not occur. On this basis a scientist will conclude that
> > the physical world, and the brain in particular, by virtue
> > of its organisation, causes consciousness. Otherwise
> > consciousness would not depart if the brain were destroyed.
> 
> I would hope that a scientist would NOT "on this basis" 
> conclude that the brain "causes" consciousness. Or, as 
> Salyavin808 would have it,  "creates" consciousness (using a 
> similar form of reasoning). 

Hardly *just* that basis.

 
> You both seem to be saying that "because damage to X results 
> in damage to Y, and the destruction of X results in the 
> destruction of Y, *therefore* X creates Y or X causes Y". This 
> appears to me to be an obviously flawed line of reasoning 
> (Judy has made this point previously). For example, take a 
> statue made from marble. If you chip the marble, you damage 
> the statue. If you destroy the marble you destroy the statue. 
> "On this basis" is a scientist to conclude that the marble 
> "causes" or "creates" the statue? 

That's an astoundingly weak argument. 

 
> And it gets worse. Even Supposing that we took your reasoning 
> to be valid after all and accepted as a consequence that the 
> brain "causes" consciousness. That does not mean (in itself) 
> that consciousness is "nothing but" the brain and can be 
> "reduced" to that particular material object. For example, 
> when I flick a switch, that causes my light to come on. But 
> that doesn't mean the light is "nothing but" the light switch.

Whoever said it was?


> Perhaps it's the word "cause" that is creating difficulties 
> here. What you and Salyavin808 are saying might make more 
> sense within an Aristotelian understanding: The brain is the 
> "material cause" of the mind. 
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_causes) But what that gains 
> in plausibility it sacrifices in significance I would have 
> thought. And in any case, scientistic types would hardly wish 
> to resurrect a primitive ancient like Aristotle to bolster 
> their scientific reductionism, would they?
> 
> To add to the gaity, perhape we "mysterians" could lob a few 
> of our own ordnance into the fray.
> 
> If you belive that mind is reducible to brain, what would you 
> predict would be the result of the amputation of a full half 
> of a person's brain? Well, such "hemispherectomies" do happen 
> (though mostly with children). And the results? 
> 
> "Studies have found no significant long-term effects on 
> memory, personality, or humor after the procedure, and minimal 
> changes in cognitive function overall." 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemispherectomy

Whoever said the brain was wired so that everything was on
one side?

And there is more to this than meets the eye. If I cut your
corpus calosum your right hand stops knowing what the left hand
is doing. Cover one eye and you'll know what you are looking
at even though you can't see it. These and many other experiments
have been done to show how one side of the brain controls the
other half of the body and the sufferer can go through life
without noticing, mostly. 

It doesn't contradict anything I've said about consciousness 
anyway. Placing of brain structures is well understood, it can be predicted 
what functions people will lose or have difficulty with after a damage to the 
brain.

 
> And what are we to make of a case such as the 44 year-old 
> French civil servant with a huge pocket of fluid where most of 
> his brain ought to be - as reported in the Lancet and Nature:

Surprising how much of the brain you don't need. Or how much you
can lose. You seem to be posting things as though you think
it's evidence that mind and brain are seperate and you can lose one without 
changing the other.

I can assume then that you've never known anyone with serious 
brain damage? it's amazing how they come back to being themselves,
even after losing large bits of the most recently evolved areas known to be 
associated with our higher functions, but never totally. 
Damage changes how people are and it's all well documented if you haven't 
personally had the misfortune of knowing someone who's been 
in a coma and seen the horror of their destroyed mind as they come out.

And then been astounded as bits of them start coming back online and after a 
few years they can be almost themselves. But, as I say, not quite. It's sad how 
people are affected. Lose from the back of the brain and you lose motor 
functions. Lose from the front and you
lose w

[FairfieldLife] David Gersten, M.D.: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 05/19/2013

[Rick Archer]

 


blog updates from


Buddha at the Gas Pump


   


published 05/19/2013


174. David Gersten, M.D. 

 

May 18, 2013 07:48 am | Rick

Dr. Gersten practices integrative psychiatry and nutritional medicine out of 
his office in Encinitas, California. In this interview we discuss his book Are 
You Getting Enlightened Or Losing Your Mind? A Psychiatrist’s Guide for 
Mastering Paranormal and Spiritual Experience. Dr. … Continue reading  

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The post 174. David Gersten, M.D. 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[salyavin808]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
>
> Salyavin, I've been rereading your exchanges with Judy and others and 
> attempting to follow the ideas with mixed success.  I even read Chalmers!  
> So I'm really glad you commented here because I am struggling with the whole 
> thing despite my TM background.  Anyway, I'm not even sure what to ask.  
> Ok, you say an injection of ether takes awareness with it.  Does this mean 
> that ether or its lack is the fundamental truth of existence?  Again, I'm 
> not even sure what to ask so any feedback along those lines is also 
> appreciated.    
> 
> 
> It sounds like you're saying that consciousness cannot exist without a 
> functioning structure.  Am I understanding that correctly?

Yep, a functioning brain is the seat of consciousness but groups
like the TMO will attempt to weaken that idea for their own agenda.

Anaesthetic is marvellous, it knocks out the higher brain and
consciousness but too much will take out the lower level stuff 
you need to remain alive.

Consciouness is generally thought of as an emergent phenomena
meaning it needs a certain amount of brain cells to be there
at all, this means it is irreducible to the level of neurons
which is, I guess, why people have such a hard time with it.

No one has ever demonstrated that it can live independently of 
us or that it is fundamental to us. These are all beliefs about
it that aren't scientific as they weren't designed to fill a gap
in knowledge and have proved untestable. I see them as the typically
human "we don't understand, blame it on god" reaction that stood mankind in 
good stead until someone thought of a way of testing 
ideas.

Quantum consciousness is an interesting idea but rather spoilt 
by the fact that there isn't anything in the brain small enough
to allow quantum information to stack up (by some margin) and 
the brain is too hot. Strange quantum effects (such as the ones
they'll need for the theory to work) only happen when at a very
low temperature, at other times they leap around in a most 
incoherent fashion. For some reason these embarrassing facts
don't stop people holding conferences about it.

And the quantum solution doesn't answer the question of the hard 
problem anyway, it just pushes it to another level. In the case
of the TM mythos, it pushes it to the level of some infinite
godhead which seems an unnecessary step to me and certainly not
born out by the evidence of experience which always seem explainable
in a more mundane way and people mostly thinking along the lines of:
If it feels like infinity then it must be stretching outside of
my head. I've been there and I'm not convinced.

Because I don't believe the mystic mythos it just seems staggeringly
obvious to me that it's all in the brain and totally dependent on it.
Consciousness evolved just like everything else, everything else is your own 
problem! Which isn't to say I'm not struck dumb by how amazing it all is, I'm 
the original psychic adventurer - of my generation anyway. 
 
Of course, you may think I'm talking complete blinkered crap and 
good luck to you! I will convert for evidence.


> 
>  From: salyavin808 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:56 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
>  
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> >
> > Doc, I keep coming back to this.  It seems to be the most basic 
> truth, the only one we can know absolutely:  awareness exists.  
> 
> I think a general anaesthetic is a damn fine way of demonstrating
> the biological nature of consciousness. Just a little bit of ether
> and things shut down, taking awareness with it.
> 
> > 
> >  From: "doctordumbass@" 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:42 AM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> > Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding 
> > the answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a 
> > thing, in the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a 
> > cloud, or an atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer 
> > is no. But I will probably never know the answer, absolutely.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> > >
> > > Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness?  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  From: "doctordumbass@" 
> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM
> > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, 
> > > Feel Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > Thou

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[PaliGap]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros 
Anartaxius"  wrote:

> We see other people, animals, and by their behaviour we
> deem them to be conscious. Yet if the brain of these
> beings is damaged in certain ways, that conscious 
> behaviour departs. Injection of certain drugs, such as
> Propofol (the one that killed the singer > Michael Jackson) 
> causes consciousness to slip away, even when > death does
> not occur. On this basis a scientist will conclude that
> the physical world, and the brain in particular, by virtue
> of its organisation, causes consciousness. Otherwise
> consciousness would not depart if the brain were destroyed.

I would hope that a scientist would NOT "on this basis" 
conclude that the brain "causes" consciousness. Or, as 
Salyavin808 would have it,  "creates" consciousness (using a 
similar form of reasoning). 

You both seem to be saying that "because damage to X results 
in damage to Y, and the destruction of X results in the 
destruction of Y, *therefore* X creates Y or X causes Y". This 
appears to me to be an obviously flawed line of reasoning 
(Judy has made this point previously). For example, take a 
statue made from marble. If you chip the marble, you damage 
the statue. If you destroy the marble you destroy the statue. 
"On this basis" is a scientist to conclude that the marble 
"causes" or "creates" the statue? 

And it gets worse. Even Supposing that we took your reasoning 
to be valid after all and accepted as a consequence that the 
brain "causes" consciousness. That does not mean (in itself) 
that consciousness is "nothing but" the brain and can be 
"reduced" to that particular material object. For example, 
when I flick a switch, that causes my light to come on. But 
that doesn't mean the light is "nothing but" the light switch.

Perhaps it's the word "cause" that is creating difficulties 
here. What you and Salyavin808 are saying might make more 
sense within an Aristotelian understanding: The brain is the 
"material cause" of the mind. 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_causes) But what that gains 
in plausibility it sacrifices in significance I would have 
thought. And in any case, scientistic types would hardly wish 
to resurrect a primitive ancient like Aristotle to bolster 
their scientific reductionism, would they?

To add to the gaity, perhape we "mysterians" could lob a few 
of our own ordnance into the fray.

If you belive that mind is reducible to brain, what would you 
predict would be the result of the amputation of a full half 
of a person's brain? Well, such "hemispherectomies" do happen 
(though mostly with children). And the results? 

"Studies have found no significant long-term effects on 
memory, personality, or humor after the procedure, and minimal 
changes in cognitive function overall." 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemispherectomy

And what are we to make of a case such as the 44 year-old 
French civil servant with a huge pocket of fluid where most of 
his brain ought to be - as reported in the Lancet and Nature:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/07/20/us-brain-tiny- 
idUSN1930510020070720

http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070716/full/news070716-15.html

Or again, what about when the direction of causality is 
reversed? That is to say, if the influence of the brain on the 
mind is put forward as evidence for reductionism, what are we 
to conclude when the tables are reversed and the mind causes 
the death of the brain? As in "pointing the bone":

"The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. 
But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been 
uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual 
loading of the kundela creates a "spear of thought" which 
pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as 
if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is 
certain."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdaitcha

Finally, if, following Descartes (and now David Chalmers in 
the video Judy posted) we conclude that the one indubitable 
fact (for me) is "my being me", "my existence". How, as 
reductive materialists, can we account for the fact that my 
existence has remained constant throughout my life, whereas 
every part of my body and brain has changed? There is very 
little sense in which the brain I have now is the same as the 
one I had at age five. But there is plenty of sense in saying 
that I am the same individual now as my self when I was five. 
In fact the entire emotional, social, intellectual, ethical, 
judicial and religious fabric of our lives is based on this 
simple idea of "individuals" - their concerns, their 
histories, their rights, their duties and so forth. Brains 
don't have such attributes.

Ergo, individuals are not brains.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[Share Long]

Salyavin, I've been rereading your exchanges with Judy and others and 
attempting to follow the ideas with mixed success.  I even read Chalmers!  So 
I'm really glad you commented here because I am struggling with the whole thing 
despite my TM background.  Anyway, I'm not even sure what to ask.  Ok, you say 
an injection of ether takes awareness with it.  Does this mean that ether or 
its lack is the fundamental truth of existence?  Again, I'm not even sure what 
to ask so any feedback along those lines is also appreciated.    


It sounds like you're saying that consciousness cannot exist without a 
functioning structure.  Am I understanding that correctly?



 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:56 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
 


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
>
> Doc, I keep coming back to this.  It seems to be the most basic 
truth, the only one we can know absolutely:  awareness exists.  

I think a general anaesthetic is a damn fine way of demonstrating
the biological nature of consciousness. Just a little bit of ether
and things shut down, taking awareness with it.

> 
>  From: "doctordumbass@..." 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:42 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
> 
> 
> 
>   
> I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding the 
> answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a thing, in 
> the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a cloud, or 
> an atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer is no. But I 
> will probably never know the answer, absolutely.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> >
> > Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness?  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  From: "doctordumbass@" 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> > Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or 
> > awareness is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, 
> > you need a brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't 
> > necessary.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" 
> > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > (snip)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complex and assume that it must have been 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > created
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by something more complex. This was Darwins 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > genius
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as he showed it isn't the case where biology 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But not where human consciousness is concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a belief. And a strange one.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for 
> > > > > > > > > > human
> > > > > > > > > > consciousness.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Which words did you not understand?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my
> > > > > > > heartbeat.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Non sequitur. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > LOL!
> > > > > 
> > > > > > The heartbeat is a biological thing.
> > > > > 
> > > > > And I guess the brain isn't..
> > > > 
> > > > You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain
> > > > is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well
> > > > not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is
> > > > biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT.
> > > 
> > > That's really anything funny you know.
> > > 
> > > To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain.
> > > Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability
> > > for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict
> > > how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains
> > > were for cooling blood as it went round the body!

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[salyavin808]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
>
> Doc, I keep coming back to this.  It seems to be the most basic 
truth, the only one we can know absolutely:  awareness exists.  

I think a general anaesthetic is a damn fine way of demonstrating
the biological nature of consciousness. Just a little bit of ether
and things shut down, taking awareness with it.


> 
>  From: "doctordumbass@..." 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:42 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
>  
> 
> 
>   
> I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding the 
> answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a thing, in 
> the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a cloud, or 
> an atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer is no. But I 
> will probably never know the answer, absolutely.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> >
> > Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness?  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  From: "doctordumbass@" 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> > Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or 
> > awareness is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, 
> > you need a brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't 
> > necessary.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" 
> > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > (snip)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complex and assume that it must have been 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > created
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by something more complex. This was Darwins 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > genius
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as he showed it isn't the case where biology 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But not where human consciousness is concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a belief. And a strange one.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for 
> > > > > > > > > > human
> > > > > > > > > > consciousness.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Which words did you not understand?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my
> > > > > > > heartbeat.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Non sequitur. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > LOL!
> > > > > 
> > > > > > The heartbeat is a biological thing.
> > > > > 
> > > > > And I guess the brain isn't..
> > > > 
> > > > You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain
> > > > is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well
> > > > not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is
> > > > biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT.
> > > 
> > > That's really anything funny you know.
> > > 
> > > To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain.
> > > Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability
> > > for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict
> > > how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains
> > > were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't
> > > rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, 
> > > they believe sorts of weird stuff.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > > > > You mystical types start from the wrong place.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant
> > > > > > thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or
> > > > > > believers in God who make the points I'm making.
> > > > > 
> > > > > So?
> > > > 
> > > > So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain
> > > > consciousness without being a mystic, which means you
> > > > can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a
> > > > "mystical type" (if I even am).
> > > > 
> > > > > > And where they start from is the fact that the biology of
> > > > > > evolution doesn't account for human consciousness.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > You claim to understand evolution but have you considered how
> > > > > > > an 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[Share Long]

Doc, I keep coming back to this.  It seems to be the most basic truth, the only 
one we can know absolutely:  awareness exists.  





 From: "doctordumb...@rocketmail.com" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:42 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
 


  
I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding the 
answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a thing, in 
the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a cloud, or an 
atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer is no. But I will 
probably never know the answer, absolutely.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
>
> Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness?  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From: "doctordumbass@..." 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
> 
> 
> 
>   
> Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or awareness 
> is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, you need a 
> brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't necessary.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" 
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > (snip)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complex and assume that it must have been 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > created
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by something more complex. This was Darwins 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > genius
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as he showed it isn't the case where biology is 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But not where human consciousness is concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a belief. And a strange one.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for human
> > > > > > > > > consciousness.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Which words did you not understand?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my
> > > > > > heartbeat.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Non sequitur. 
> > > > 
> > > > LOL!
> > > > 
> > > > > The heartbeat is a biological thing.
> > > > 
> > > > And I guess the brain isn't..
> > > 
> > > You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain
> > > is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well
> > > not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is
> > > biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT.
> > 
> > That's really anything funny you know.
> > 
> > To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain.
> > Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability
> > for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict
> > how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains
> > were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't
> > rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, 
> > they believe sorts of weird stuff.
> > 
> > 
> > > > > > You mystical types start from the wrong place.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant
> > > > > thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or
> > > > > believers in God who make the points I'm making.
> > > > 
> > > > So?
> > > 
> > > So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain
> > > consciousness without being a mystic, which means you
> > > can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a
> > > "mystical type" (if I even am).
> > > 
> > > > > And where they start from is the fact that the biology of
> > > > > evolution doesn't account for human consciousness.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > You claim to understand evolution but have you considered how
> > > > > > an alternative might fit in?
> > > > > 
> > > > > An alternative to evolution? Why would that be necessary? Nothing
> > > > > wrong with evolution as it is.
> > > > 
> > > > Other than that it can't account for human consciousness?
> > > 
> > > Nothing wrong with that. It just means we have to look
> > > elsewhere for an understanding of consciousness. Why 
> > > would we even expect evolution to provide the answers to
> > > all questions? That it doesn't isn't a flaw in evolution,
> > > it's a flaw in our expectations.
> > > 
> > > > PS I k

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[doctordumbass]

I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding the 
answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a thing, in 
the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a cloud, or an 
atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer is no. But I will 
probably never know the answer, absolutely.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
>
> Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness?  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From: "doctordumbass@..." 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
> Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
>  
> 
> 
>   
> Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or awareness 
> is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, you need a 
> brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't necessary.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" 
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > (snip)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complex and assume that it must have been 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > created
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by something more complex. This was Darwins 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > genius
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as he showed it isn't the case where biology is 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But not where human consciousness is concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a belief. And a strange one.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for human
> > > > > > > > > consciousness.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Which words did you not understand?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my
> > > > > > heartbeat.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Non sequitur. 
> > > > 
> > > > LOL!
> > > > 
> > > > > The heartbeat is a biological thing.
> > > > 
> > > > And I guess the brain isn't..
> > > 
> > > You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain
> > > is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well
> > > not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is
> > > biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT.
> > 
> > That's really anything funny you know.
> > 
> > To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain.
> > Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability
> > for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict
> > how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains
> > were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't
> > rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, 
> > they believe sorts of weird stuff.
> > 
> > 
> > > > > > You mystical types start from the wrong place.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant
> > > > > thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or
> > > > > believers in God who make the points I'm making.
> > > > 
> > > > So?
> > > 
> > > So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain
> > > consciousness without being a mystic, which means you
> > > can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a
> > > "mystical type" (if I even am).
> > > 
> > > > > And where they start from is the fact that the biology of
> > > > > evolution doesn't account for human consciousness.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > You claim to understand evolution but have you considered how
> > > > > > an alternative might fit in?
> > > > > 
> > > > > An alternative to evolution? Why would that be necessary? Nothing
> > > > > wrong with evolution as it is.
> > > > 
> > > > Other than that it can't account for human consciousness?
> > > 
> > > Nothing wrong with that. It just means we have to look
> > > elsewhere for an understanding of consciousness. Why 
> > > would we even expect evolution to provide the answers to
> > > all questions? That it doesn't isn't a flaw in evolution,
> > > it's a flaw in our expectations.
> > > 
> > > > PS I know what the "hard" problem is.
> > > 
> > > I'm sorry to hear that. If you didn't know, there'd be
> > > some excuse for your inability to contribute anything
> > > thoughtful to this discussion (not necessarily agreement,
> > > but at least thoughtful disagreement). You want to "win"
> > > without having to do any work.
> > 
> > Win what?
> > 
> > > You're more than welcome to withdraw fr

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[Share Long]

Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness?  




 From: "doctordumb...@rocketmail.com" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel 
Good, Achieve Goals  Dr. Shelley S
 


  
Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or awareness 
is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, you need a 
brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't necessary.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > > wrote:
> > (snip)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find something
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complex and assume that it must have been created
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by something more complex. This was Darwins genius
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as he showed it isn't the case where biology is 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But not where human consciousness is concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a belief. And a strange one.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for human
> > > > > > > > consciousness.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Which words did you not understand?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my
> > > > > heartbeat.
> > > > 
> > > > Non sequitur. 
> > > 
> > > LOL!
> > > 
> > > > The heartbeat is a biological thing.
> > > 
> > > And I guess the brain isn't..
> > 
> > You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain
> > is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well
> > not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is
> > biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT.
> 
> That's really anything funny you know.
> 
> To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain.
> Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability
> for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict
> how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains
> were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't
> rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, 
> they believe sorts of weird stuff.
> 
> 
> > > > > You mystical types start from the wrong place.
> > > > 
> > > > I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant
> > > > thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or
> > > > believers in God who make the points I'm making.
> > > 
> > > So?
> > 
> > So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain
> > consciousness without being a mystic, which means you
> > can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a
> > "mystical type" (if I even am).
> > 
> > > > And where they start from is the fact that the biology of
> > > > evolution doesn't account for human consciousness.
> > > > 
> > > > > You claim to understand evolution but have you considered how
> > > > > an alternative might fit in?
> > > > 
> > > > An alternative to evolution? Why would that be necessary? Nothing
> > > > wrong with evolution as it is.
> > > 
> > > Other than that it can't account for human consciousness?
> > 
> > Nothing wrong with that. It just means we have to look
> > elsewhere for an understanding of consciousness. Why 
> > would we even expect evolution to provide the answers to
> > all questions? That it doesn't isn't a flaw in evolution,
> > it's a flaw in our expectations.
> > 
> > > PS I know what the "hard" problem is.
> > 
> > I'm sorry to hear that. If you didn't know, there'd be
> > some excuse for your inability to contribute anything
> > thoughtful to this discussion (not necessarily agreement,
> > but at least thoughtful disagreement). You want to "win"
> > without having to do any work.
> 
> Win what?
> 
> > You're more than welcome to withdraw from the conversation
> > if it doesn't interest you.
> 
> I'm withdrawing because you haven't offered anything new yet.
> We just go back to where we start. You won't get anywhere without
> evidence that brains aren't capable of creating consciousness and
> as every step in brain imaging and understanding gets us closer
> to thoughts, how to measure them and where they come from, some
> might say the mystics are in for a bit of a disappointment. Which
> shouldn't be the case as learning stuff is worth it for its own 
> sake but a majority still believe in gods and afterlives so it's
> going to be tricky to convince them and it's probably the sort
> of thing that people will think they can take or leave and it 
> won't matter, and they'

[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S

[doctordumbass]

Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or awareness 
is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, you need a 
brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't necessary.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > > wrote:
> > (snip)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find something
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complex and assume that it must have been created
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by something more complex. This was Darwins genius
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as he showed it isn't the case where biology is 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But not where human consciousness is concerned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a belief. And a strange one.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for human
> > > > > > > > consciousness.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Which words did you not understand?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my
> > > > > heartbeat.
> > > > 
> > > > Non sequitur. 
> > > 
> > > LOL!
> > > 
> > > > The heartbeat is a biological thing.
> > > 
> > > And I guess the brain isn't..
> > 
> > You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain
> > is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well
> > not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is
> > biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT.
> 
> That's really anything funny you know.
> 
> To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain.
> Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability
> for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict
> how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains
> were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't
> rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, 
> they believe sorts of weird stuff.
> 
>  
> > > > > You mystical types start from the wrong place.
> > > > 
> > > > I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant
> > > > thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or
> > > > believers in God who make the points I'm making.
> > > 
> > > So?
> > 
> > So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain
> > consciousness without being a mystic, which means you
> > can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a
> > "mystical type" (if I even am).
> > 
> > > > And where they start from is the fact that the biology of
> > > > evolution doesn't account for human consciousness.
> > > > 
> > > > > You claim to understand evolution but have you considered how
> > > > > an alternative might fit in?
> > > > 
> > > > An alternative to evolution? Why would that be necessary? Nothing
> > > > wrong with evolution as it is.
> > > 
> > > Other than that it can't account for human consciousness?
> > 
> > Nothing wrong with that. It just means we have to look
> > elsewhere for an understanding of consciousness. Why 
> > would we even expect evolution to provide the answers to
> > all questions? That it doesn't isn't a flaw in evolution,
> > it's a flaw in our expectations.
> > 
> > > PS I know what the "hard" problem is.
> > 
> > I'm sorry to hear that. If you didn't know, there'd be
> > some excuse for your inability to contribute anything
> > thoughtful to this discussion (not necessarily agreement,
> > but at least thoughtful disagreement). You want to "win"
> > without having to do any work.
> 
> Win what?
>  
> > You're more than welcome to withdraw from the conversation
> > if it doesn't interest you.
> 
> I'm withdrawing because you haven't offered anything new yet.
> We just go back to where we start. You won't get anywhere without
> evidence that brains aren't capable of creating consciousness and
> as every step in brain imaging and understanding gets us closer
> to thoughts, how to measure them and where they come from, some
> might say the mystics are in for a bit of a disappointment. Which
> shouldn't be the case as learning stuff is worth it for its own 
> sake but a majority still believe in gods and afterlives so it's
> going to be tricky to convince them and it's probably the sort
> of thing that people will think they can take or leave and it 
> won't matter, and they'd be right in every practical way.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit

[Share Long]

Hey John I was thinking about jyotish, etc. this morning.  Remembering times I 
read the Farmer's Almanac and how they suggested best days to plant according 
to the phase of the moon.  And of course we know that the moon affects the 
tides.  And we know that we're 70% water.  So it makes sense to me that we're 
also affected by the moon's phases.  For example, I think violence increases 
around the full moon.  Anyway, what if we're affected in similar ways by the 
other planets, but not on the level of water.  Just speculation, but it could 
be put to experimentation:  maybe Mars has an effect on iron levels in the 
body, in Earth; maybe Saturn has an effect on calcium levels;  maybe Venus has 
an effect on the levels of the pleasure hormones.  What do you think?





 From: John 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 10:24 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
 


  
Share,

I don't have any credible source as to the natal chart of Red China.  I would 
assume it would be the date and time when the People's Republic of China 
officially became the ruler of the country.  I haven't researched this point 
yet.  I'm sure it's available in the record books.

JR

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
>
> John, thank you for explaining this.  It'll be interesting to see how it all 
> plays out.  Any jyotish chart for China?  Wonder how it compares to US.  
> Good compatibility?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From: John 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:44 PM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
> 
> 
> 
>   
> Share,
> 
> Red China obviously wants to trade with the USA since we are a heavy consumer 
> of goods that they manufacture.  So, in that sense, they would prefer for the 
> USA to stay afloat as a nation.
> 
> They have also lent the US money to the tune of about one trillion dollars.  
> So, they have a heavy investment in our country thinking that we can pay the 
> interest for the loaned amount.  If they didn't think we can pay for the 
> loans, they could sell the bonds they're holding in the open market at any 
> time.
> 
> Most of the US national debt are actually owed to Americans themselves, such 
> as the Social Security Fund, Medicare Funds, Private Investment Funds, State 
> Funds, Union Funds and others.
> 
> JR
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> >
> > What I've heard is that they think that if the US economy tanks, they 
> > tank.  So it's in their self interest to help the US.  You know, by 
> > not calling in all those markers of ours they hold.  Is there anything 
> > to this idea?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  From: John 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:56 PM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > Share,
> > 
> > From what I understand they are still a communist nation which forbids any 
> > religion other than the state itself.  Will they continue to practice the 
> > self interest of the state, a communist and atheistic one, may not be too 
> > good for the rest of the world.
> > 
> > JR
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
> > >
> > > John, I don't think their agenda is much of a secret any longer.  
> > > But it will be interesting to see how connected they feel to the rest of 
> > > the world.  Meaning will they practice wise self interest or 
> > > unwise?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  From: John 
> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:21 PM
> > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 05/14/2013 10:25 AM, John wrote:
> > > > > With the city on the verge of bankruptcy, the participation of 
> > > > > Chinese auto industry in the area may be a welcome development.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-creating-auto-niche-within-012304652.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > They US is already a wholly owned subsidiary of China.  How's your 
> > > > Mandarin?  I hear Chinese are starting to buy up houses in the US. 
> > > > Capitalism stinks.
> > > 
> > > It's puzzling how a supposedly communist country of Red China can do so 
> > > well with capitalism here in the USA and elsewhere in the world.  Do they 
> > > have a secret agenda of defeating capitalism at its own game? 
> > > 
> > > It would be interesting to see what Red China will develop into in the 
> > > future.
> > >
> >
>


 

[FairfieldLife] BatGap Panel Discussion – John Hagelin, Ph.D., Igor Kufayev, and Mark McCooey. Moderated by Rick Archer

[Rick Archer]

 



New post on Buddha at the Gas Pump 

   

 




  


  175. Panel Discussion – John 
Hagelin, Ph.D., Igor Kufayev, and Mark McCooey. Moderated by Rick Archer


by   Rick 

PANEL: The Three Simultaneously True Levels of Nondual Reality; Don't Mistake 
Understanding for Realization, Don't Mistake Realization for Liberation. John 
Hagelin, Ph.D., is a world-renowned quantum physicist, educator, public policy 
expert, and leading proponent of peace. Dr. Hagelin received his A.B. summa cum 
laude from Dartmouth College and his M.A. and Ph.D. from Harvard University, […]

  Read more of this post

  Rick | May 20, 2013 at 7:06 am | Categories:  
 Guests | URL:  
 http://wp.me/p1q1S0-IB 


  Comment

 See all comments

 


Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: 
  
http://batgap.com/sand-panel-discussion/ 

 



  

 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Thank God, Obama no match for Hitler Germany.

[feste37]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u  wrote:
>
> He may have the ministry of propaganda (the liberal state run press), he may 
> have the IRS, he may have the Justice department, but he'll never have the 
> approval of the American people.
>


CNN Poll released yesterday:
Fifty-three percent of Americans said they approve of the job the president is 
doing.

[FairfieldLife] Transcendental Meditation (TM) Helps Access Creativity

[merlin]

Transcendental Meditation (TM)

Helps Access Creativity
__.


http://tmhome.com/news/transcendental-meditation-in-world-press/tm-helps-access-creativity-for-guitarist/

[FairfieldLife] Transcendental Meditation Clip

[merlin]

Transcendental Meditation Clip

...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pA_rHZZTgE&NR=1&feature=endscreen
_.__

Introduccion a la Meditacion Trascendental subt español

[FairfieldLife] Great progress in Nepal

[merlin]

Great progress in Nepal, Israel, Ukraine, South Korea and Georgia reported by 
Raja Kingsley  


Maharishi’s Global Family Chat
May 18, 2013


This report by Raja Kingsley 

was so wide-ranging and contained news of so very many significant projects, 
presentations, meetings and breakthroughs that we can only offer a small 
selection to give a flavour from one country – Nepal.

Dr Bevan Morris spoke with former Prime Minister Chand, 

at a celebration honouring Maharishi.

Raja Dr John Hagelin addressed leading thinkers, academics and intelligentsia 
at the Nepal Academy for Science and Technology.

Fours schools, including the Military Academy High School, have started 
Transcendental Meditation and are implementing Consciousness-Based Education, 
and there is a rising tide of interest from many more.

Twenty-two schoolteachers travelled to Thailand to attend the Transcendental 
Meditation Teacher Training Course, after which they will return to implement 
Consciousness-Based Education in their schools.

***
    © 2013 

Global Country of World Peace

[FairfieldLife] Hypercane!

[card]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercane