Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Gary Kline]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:31:37PM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 26 June 2009 pm 12:19:32 Gary Kline wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 09:50:31AM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote:
> > >
> > > On 26 June 2009 am 09:06:49 Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:20:19 +0800, Erich Dollansky
> > >
> > >  wrote:
> > > > >On 25 June 2009 pm 19:13:14 Konrad Heuer wrote:
> > >
> > > Of course, only for VT-100 Terminals.
> >
> > This is interesting.  I learned vi on an ADM-3A, late-70's.
> 
> this was the dream terminal of mine during those days. It has had 
> a decent keyboard with an acceptable screen.
> 
> I really forgot the names of the terminals I have had to use 
> before.


my first was just the "3", the "3A" had the addressible cursor so
vi could move around.  the whole thing was one unit; kybd builtin
to the screen/CRT.  i thought the ADM-3A was severely cool:_)

gary

ps: yes, i is a nerd... .


> 
> Later I could move to Esprit 6310 models.
> 
> Erich

-- 
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Gary Kline]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 09:09:56PM -0400, John L. Templer wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
> >> ed is an interactive program, and it has always been considered as
> >> such, at least since BSD 4.2.  Way back then there were three main
> >> editors, ex, vi, and ed.
> > 
> > ed goes back at least as far as the Bell Labs 6th Edition (PDP-11),
> > where it was the only editor in the distribution.  ex and vi (and
> > termcap, without which there would be no vi) were written later, at
> > UC Berkeley.
> > 
> >> If you had a nice video terminal then you used vi.  But if you
> >> were stuck using a hard copy terminal like a Decwriter, then you
> >> used ex.  And ed was the simplified (dumbed down) editor for
> >> newbies.
> > 
> > More like, ed was the "original" Unix editor; ex and vi presumably
> > were inspired, at least in part, by a desire to improve on ed's
> > limitations.  I doubt I'm the only one who muttered about the bother
> > of horsing around with ed, back when there was nothing else.
> > 
> 
> Ah, I didn't know that.  When I started using Unix (on a BSD 4.2 system)
> vi was the editor of choice.  It wasn't until much later that I learned
> about the ATT side of Unix.


Back in 1978, Bill Joy used to walk around with a fan-fold
printout of vi and/or csh.  He'd pull up a chair and sit at a
term a few feet away.  (This was when I was first learning
FORTRAN-IV and [ick] Pascal.  )  He probably fixed dozrns of bugs
that way, walking thru the code.  --Yes, I'm sure he was trying
to impress the girls too.  (About a third of the intro
programming classes were female, then.  And not many uglies, 
either! (I'm not sexist or anything, just telling it like
it was:)   Today I'm hearing there are fewer women students into 
programming... dunno why.)   Ken Arnold hacked the first curses
and termcap.   Anyway, this is the BErkeley side of Unix.


ed was my first editor on the ADM.  It was the next thing to
magic.  vi blew it out of the water.


-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org
   For FBSD list: http://transfinite.thought.org/slicejourney.php
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Re: Which latex should I install

[Olivier Nicole]

Hi,

> Just today I found the marvel of LaTeX while looking over a quick how-to  
> for LaTeX.

Congratulation brother, you've seen the light :))

Now for you technical questions, Polytropon has replied.

Bests,

Olivier
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On 26 June 2009 pm 12:19:32 Gary Kline wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 09:50:31AM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote:
> >
> > On 26 June 2009 am 09:06:49 Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> > > On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:20:19 +0800, Erich Dollansky
> >
> >  wrote:
> > > >On 25 June 2009 pm 19:13:14 Konrad Heuer wrote:
> >
> > Of course, only for VT-100 Terminals.
>
>   This is interesting.  I learned vi on an ADM-3A, late-70's.

this was the dream terminal of mine during those days. It has had 
a decent keyboard with an acceptable screen.

I really forgot the names of the terminals I have had to use 
before.

Later I could move to Esprit 6310 models.

Erich
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Gary Kline]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 09:50:31AM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 26 June 2009 am 09:06:49 Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:20:19 +0800, Erich Dollansky 
>  wrote:
> > >On 25 June 2009 pm 19:13:14 Konrad Heuer wrote:
> > >> Maybe you're right, maybe not.
> > >>
> > >> 20 years ago, I've written and edited voluminous fortran
> > >> code on a silly rs232 terminal using ed. So, it is possible,
> > >> and one
> > >
> > > I do not believe you. This must have been 30 years back.
> >
> > As far as 16 years back, VT220/VT320 terminals were in wide use
> > in universities.  Some of us learned our first regexp stuff by
> 
> not only there, but ed was not the editor of choice even those 
> days anymore.
> 
> > reading the source of ed(1) and typing small programs in those
> > terminals.  vi(1) was available for a long time before 1993,
> > but this doesn't mean other editors had died out by then :)
> 
> If I remember right, I used something like ed only in the 
> Seventies.
> 
> A collegue programmed then even a WordStar clone for RSX to have a 
> nice editor.
> 
> Of course, only for VT-100 Terminals.


This is interesting.  I learned vi on an ADM-3A, late-70's.  
And, *YES*, it is in /rescue!   :-D

Would not just a symlink work on build?  Or since it's < 3700
blocks, why not default build in in /bin too?  I mean, come on,
you guys... .

gary


> 
> Erich
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   For FBSD list: http://transfinite.thought.org/slicejourney.php
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Re: The question of moving vi to /binHi,

[Glen Barber]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Polytropon wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:03:21 +0800, Erich Dollansky  
> wrote:
>> What kind of editor do you need for rescue? Just edit one or two
>> lines in some config file to allow the full system to start
>> again.
>>
>> Rescue does not need an editor programmers are used to edit their
>> source files.
>
> I won't say anything different. For the usual "maintenance and
> get the damn thing working again" tasks the /rescue editor,
> especially vi, should be enough. Commands are i, a, and :wq.

Don't forget about dd ;)


-- 
Glen Barber
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Re: The question of moving vi to /binHi,

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:03:21 +0800, Erich Dollansky  wrote:
> What kind of editor do you need for rescue? Just edit one or two 
> lines in some config file to allow the full system to start 
> again.
> 
> Rescue does not need an editor programmers are used to edit their 
> source files.

I won't say anything different. For the usual "maintenance and
get the damn thing working again" tasks the /rescue editor,
especially vi, should be enough. Commands are i, a, and :wq.
>From my experience, I can't remember to have used anything
else.



-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Which latex should I install

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:38:00 +, af300...@gmail.com wrote:
> for LaTeX. I was using a Linux system at work and would like to install it  
> on my FreeBSD system at home since I've been looking for something like  
> this for exchanging math questions I have with a friend who's helping me  
> understand mathematics as I pursue my degree. LaTeX is just what I've been  
> looking for. However, when I went to find the port by doing "make search  
> name=latex" I was returned so many hits, frankly, I'm overwhelmed. What do  
> I need to install from ports to get the LaTeX "language" on my system, show  
> the markup using the native DVI and more importantly, write pdf file from  
> the markup?

The easiest way is to install teTeX via package.

# pkg_add -r teTeX

You can then use "latex" and "pdflatex" commands from your tex source
files.



> The tutorial I was going off of was using something called  
> pdftex I think, but not sure.

tex <-> latex == pdftex <-> pdflatex. :-)



> There's just so much there. Obviously, LaTeX is much more than I thought it  
> was. I'm looking forward to understanding it more.

LaTeX is a professional typesetting system which can be (ab)used
to do everything imaginable. :-)



-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: The question of moving vi to /binHi,

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On 26 June 2009 am 10:58:08 Polytropon wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:33:56 +0800, Erich Dollansky 
 wrote:
> > On 26 June 2009 am 10:02:30 Polytropon wrote:
> > > Polytropon
> > > From Magdeburg, Germany
> >
> > big brother is watching me.
>
> Yes, Dr. Schäuble does so. :-)
>
yeah, he rolls but he does not rock..

> The ee editor isn't that bad. Especially ^K and ^L are more
> easy to use than vi's edit buffer equivalent.
>
What kind of editor do you need for rescue? Just edit one or two 
lines in some config file to allow the full system to start 
again.

Rescue does not need an editor programmers are used to edit their 
source files.

Erich
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Which latex should I install

[af300wsm]

Hi,

Just today I found the marvel of LaTeX while looking over a quick how-to  
for LaTeX. I was using a Linux system at work and would like to install it  
on my FreeBSD system at home since I've been looking for something like  
this for exchanging math questions I have with a friend who's helping me  
understand mathematics as I pursue my degree. LaTeX is just what I've been  
looking for. However, when I went to find the port by doing "make search  
name=latex" I was returned so many hits, frankly, I'm overwhelmed. What do  
I need to install from ports to get the LaTeX "language" on my system, show  
the markup using the native DVI and more importantly, write pdf file from  
the markup? The tutorial I was going off of was using something called  
pdftex I think, but not sure. I sent myself a link to the tutorial so I  
wouldn't have to remember. Oh, it should be obvious, but what do I need to  
make sure of so that I've got all of the math rendering capability at my  
fingertips?


There's just so much there. Obviously, LaTeX is much more than I thought it  
was. I'm looking forward to understanding it more.


Andy
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Re: xfburn fails with 'Undefined symbol "__malloc_lock"'

[Mel Flynn]

On Thursday 25 June 2009 14:55:37 Markus Hoenicka wrote:

> I've upgraded my laptop from 6.4 to 7.2-RELEASE. Essentially
> everything went fine, except that for some reason xfburn no longer
> works. If I install a package using "portupgrade -f -PP"

-PP will fail if for some reason the package is not available on the servers. 
It is better to use -P when crossing major releases, so that any restricted 
packages that are unavailable on the buildservers are built from source.
I suspect this is the root of the problem, though they look to be available:
$ curl --silent --list-only \
ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-7.2-release/All/|\
grep -E '(lib|xf)burn'
libburn-0.6.4.tbz
xfburn-0.4.1.tbz

Without a log it's hard to tell what went wrong. Perhaps portupgrade found the 
package locally in $PACKAGES (/usr/ports/packages by default) and decided not 
to download it.

-- 
Mel
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Re: The question of moving vi to /binHi,

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:33:56 +0800, Erich Dollansky  wrote:
> 
> On 26 June 2009 am 10:02:30 Polytropon wrote:
> > Polytropon
> > From Magdeburg, Germany
> 
> big brother is watching me.

Yes, Dr. Schäuble does so. :-)



> An xterm just came up with this message:
> 
> "The default editor in FreeBSD is vi, which is efficient to use 
> when you have learned it, but somewhat user-unfriendly.  To use 
> ee (an easier but less powerful editor) instead, set the 
> environment variable EDITOR to /usr/bin/ee"
> 
> Isn't this the best reasoning why it should stay as it is?

The ee editor isn't that bad. Especially ^K and ^L are more
easy to use than vi's edit buffer equivalent.

While there's ed and ex in /rescue, ee isn't.

% which ee | xargs ldd
/usr/bin/ee:
libncurses.so.7 => /lib/libncurses.so.7 (0x28088000)
libc.so.7 => /lib/libc.so.7 (0x280c6000)

Relies on ncurses, but so does dialog / sysinstall...



-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: The question of moving vi to /binHi,

[Erich Dollansky]

On 26 June 2009 am 10:02:30 Polytropon wrote:
> Polytropon
> From Magdeburg, Germany

big brother is watching me.

An xterm just came up with this message:

"The default editor in FreeBSD is vi, which is efficient to use 
when you have learned it, but somewhat user-unfriendly.  To use 
ee (an easier but less powerful editor) instead, set the 
environment variable EDITOR to /usr/bin/ee"

Isn't this the best reasoning why it should stay as it is?

Erich
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On 26 June 2009 am 10:02:30 Polytropon wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:55:48 +0800, Erich Dollansky 
 wrote:
> > this is not what I mean. I wanted to say, as long as the boot
> > disk come up, I also have /usr available when I have the
> > space to have it all on the same disk.
>
> I see. The fact that /usr isn't available after booting in
> maintenance mode (SUM) is often important for recovery
> purposes. The OS leaves it to the admin to take such important
> decisions. :-)
>
yes, but then he or she knows why certain things on certain places 
unlike those day when it has had to be on those places.

> > Yes, this is the idea of the ideas.
> >
> > But why don't we take Microsoft Word running under wine?
> >
> > I mean, if we strike, we should have a real strike.
>
> That's a very good suggestion. But let's take into mind that we
> do need the most advanced and modern MICROS~1 technology, so
> FreeBSD should include a pirated copy of "Windows 7" in order
> to run the latest and most expensive pirated copy of "Office",
> programmed in Java, running through "Flash". With music. And
> dancing puppies.
>
> If - then real. :-)

Yes, this is the best suggestion up to date.


> Polytropon
> From Magdeburg, Germany

Solltest Du jetzt nicht schlafen?

Hier scheint wenigstens die Sonne.

Erich
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:55:48 +0800, Erich Dollansky  wrote:
> this is not what I mean. I wanted to say, as long as the boot disk 
> come up, I also have /usr available when I have the space to have 
> it all on the same disk.

I see. The fact that /usr isn't available after booting in
maintenance mode (SUM) is often important for recovery
purposes. The OS leaves it to the admin to take such important
decisions. :-)



> > The good thing about vi - yes, there is such a thing - is the
> > fact that it even works completely under the weirdest
> > circumstances, e. g. if you are on a terminal line that does
> > not have cursor keys or function keys, then you can still
> > use the full power of vi, as long as you know how to master
> > it, but that's true for anything in the UNIX world.
> >
> Aren't all - or at least most - of the Unix editors like this?

I think most of them are. But, for example, I don't think that
the mcedit (Midnight Commander's editor) is very usable without
cursor and function keys...



> > > But isn't there emacs in the ports too?
> >
> > Sure, let's take emacs into the OS, as well as any other editor
> > one could imagine. And because most people like graphical
> > applications, let's include OpenOffice for editing
> > configuration files in maintenance mode. :-)
> 
> Yes, this is the idea of the ideas.
> 
> But why don't we take Microsoft Word running under wine?
> 
> I mean, if we strike, we should have a real strike.

That's a very good suggestion. But let's take into mind that we
do need the most advanced and modern MICROS~1 technology, so
FreeBSD should include a pirated copy of "Windows 7" in order
to run the latest and most expensive pirated copy of "Office",
programmed in Java, running through "Flash". With music. And
dancing puppies.

If - then real. :-)




-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Giorgos Keramidas]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:50:31 +0800, Erich Dollansky  wrote:
> On 26 June 2009 am 09:06:49 Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>> As far as 16 years back, VT220/VT320 terminals were in wide use
>> in universities.  Some of us learned our first regexp stuff by
>
> not only there, but ed was not the editor of choice even those
> days anymore.

Heh, true.  I only later found out though, when a local admin hit me in
the head with a SunOS vi manual.  I've lost contact with him a long time
ago, but boy am I glad he pointed me at those SunOS manuals...

> If I remember right, I used something like ed only in the Seventies.

Ouch! :-)

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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On 26 June 2009 am 09:07:00 Polytropon wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:24:13 +0800, Erich Dollansky 
 wrote:
> > To be honest, I never have had a problem with /usr since
> > disks are large enough to have all on only one.
>
> Mostly, partitioning according to directory structures has
> nothing to do with disk space, but with intention. There are
> many many arguments pro and contra partitioning. It's a matter
> of intention.
>
this is not what I mean. I wanted to say, as long as the boot disk 
come up, I also have /usr available when I have the space to have 
it all on the same disk.

That /usr does not have to be on the same disk, is a different 
question. If I do this, I will also be aware of the consequences.

> > > > It would be even better to have an editor like joe in
> > > > /bin than anything like vi.
> > >
> > > Certainly.
> >
> > Ok, then let us support joe.
>
> Or the Midnight Commander's editor, mcedit. :-)
>
> The good thing about vi - yes, there is such a thing - is the
> fact that it even works completely under the weirdest
> circumstances, e. g. if you are on a terminal line that does
> not have cursor keys or function keys, then you can still
> use the full power of vi, as long as you know how to master
> it, but that's true for anything in the UNIX world.
>
Aren't all - or at least most - of the Unix editors like this?

> > But isn't there emacs in the ports too?
>
> Sure, let's take emacs into the OS, as well as any other editor
> one could imagine. And because most people like graphical
> applications, let's include OpenOffice for editing
> configuration files in maintenance mode. :-)

Yes, this is the idea of the ideas.

But why don't we take Microsoft Word running under wine?

I mean, if we strike, we should have a real strike.

Erich
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On 26 June 2009 am 09:06:49 Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:20:19 +0800, Erich Dollansky 
 wrote:
> >On 25 June 2009 pm 19:13:14 Konrad Heuer wrote:
> >> Maybe you're right, maybe not.
> >>
> >> 20 years ago, I've written and edited voluminous fortran
> >> code on a silly rs232 terminal using ed. So, it is possible,
> >> and one
> >
> > I do not believe you. This must have been 30 years back.
>
> As far as 16 years back, VT220/VT320 terminals were in wide use
> in universities.  Some of us learned our first regexp stuff by

not only there, but ed was not the editor of choice even those 
days anymore.

> reading the source of ed(1) and typing small programs in those
> terminals.  vi(1) was available for a long time before 1993,
> but this doesn't mean other editors had died out by then :)

If I remember right, I used something like ed only in the 
Seventies.

A collegue programmed then even a WordStar clone for RSX to have a 
nice editor.

Of course, only for VT-100 Terminals.

Erich
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[John L. Templer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
>> ed is an interactive program, and it has always been considered as
>> such, at least since BSD 4.2.  Way back then there were three main
>> editors, ex, vi, and ed.
> 
> ed goes back at least as far as the Bell Labs 6th Edition (PDP-11),
> where it was the only editor in the distribution.  ex and vi (and
> termcap, without which there would be no vi) were written later, at
> UC Berkeley.
> 
>> If you had a nice video terminal then you used vi.  But if you
>> were stuck using a hard copy terminal like a Decwriter, then you
>> used ex.  And ed was the simplified (dumbed down) editor for
>> newbies.
> 
> More like, ed was the "original" Unix editor; ex and vi presumably
> were inspired, at least in part, by a desire to improve on ed's
> limitations.  I doubt I'm the only one who muttered about the bother
> of horsing around with ed, back when there was nothing else.
> 

Ah, I didn't know that.  When I started using Unix (on a BSD 4.2 system)
vi was the editor of choice.  It wasn't until much later that I learned
about the ATT side of Unix.
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iEYEARECAAYFAkpEH+IACgkQjkAlo11skeOOrwCbBrOYlc7+bHDOgKvHiLedCQof
w3AAniMByMDTGAIEbWzTd+oTNVgB6VoU
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:24:13 +0800, Erich Dollansky  wrote:
> To be honest, I never have had a problem with /usr since disks are 
> large enough to have all on only one.

Mostly, partitioning according to directory structures has nothing
to do with disk space, but with intention. There are many many
arguments pro and contra partitioning. It's a matter of intention.


> > > It would be even better to have an editor like joe in /bin
> > > than anything like vi.
> >
> > Certainly.
> >
> Ok, then let us support joe.

Or the Midnight Commander's editor, mcedit. :-)

The good thing about vi - yes, there is such a thing - is the
fact that it even works completely under the weirdest
circumstances, e. g. if you are on a terminal line that does
not have cursor keys or function keys, then you can still
use the full power of vi, as long as you know how to master
it, but that's true for anything in the UNIX world.



> But isn't there emacs in the ports too?

Sure, let's take emacs into the OS, as well as any other editor
one could imagine. And because most people like graphical
applications, let's include OpenOffice for editing configuration
files in maintenance mode. :-)



-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Giorgos Keramidas]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:20:19 +0800, Erich Dollansky  wrote:
>On 25 June 2009 pm 19:13:14 Konrad Heuer wrote:
>> Maybe you're right, maybe not.
>>
>> 20 years ago, I've written and edited voluminous fortran code
>> on a silly rs232 terminal using ed. So, it is possible, and one
>
> I do not believe you. This must have been 30 years back.

As far as 16 years back, VT220/VT320 terminals were in wide use
in universities.  Some of us learned our first regexp stuff by
reading the source of ed(1) and typing small programs in those
terminals.  vi(1) was available for a long time before 1993, but
this doesn't mean other editors had died out by then :)

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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[John L. Templer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Ruben de Groot wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 01:36:31AM -0400, John L. Templer typed:
>> ed is an interactive program, and it has always been considered as such,
>> at least since BSD 4.2.  Way back then there were three main editors,
>> ex, vi, and ed.  If you had a nice video terminal then you used vi.  But
>> if you were stuck using a hard copy terminal like a Decwriter, then you
>> used ex.  And ed was the simplified (dumbed down) editor for newbies.
>>
>> ed is an interactive program because the user "interacts" with it.  You
>> give it command, it does something, you give it some more commands, it
>> does more stuff, etc.  Interactive does not mean screen based.
> 
> ed can be used very well non-interactively.
> e.g. a script made by diff -e can be piped to it.
> 
> Ruben
> 
> 

Yes, that's true.  Perhaps I misspoke myself.  ed can be used both in
interactive mode and in a script, which is what I called "command line
mode".  However it's not correct to say that ed is not an interactive
program, as it definitely can be used interactively.
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Erich Dollansky]

Ho,

On 26 June 2009 am 04:32:31 Erik Osterholm wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 01:28:54PM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote:
> > On 25 June 2009 pm 13:03:01 Manish Jain wrote:
> > > > If you want to make a case for replacing ed(1), you're
> >
> > isn't there ee in the base system?
>
> ee is in /usr/bin, just like vi.
>
my mistake.

To be honest, I never have had a problem with /usr since disks are 
large enough to have all on only one. Of course, those days, when 
it was two or more disks in a system and /usr died, it could have 
helped.

> > It would be even better to have an editor like joe in /bin
> > than anything like vi.
>
> Certainly.
>
Ok, then let us support joe.

But isn't there emacs in the ports too?

Erich

> Erik

PS: according to the spelling, you originate from further north 
than me
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On 25 June 2009 pm 19:13:14 Konrad Heuer wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Manish Jain wrote:
>
> Maybe you're right, maybe not.
>
> 20 years ago, I've written and edited voluminous fortran code
> on a silly rs232 terminal using ed. So, it is possible, and one

I do not believe you. This must have been 30 years back.

Didn't come CP/M 1.0 not even with a better editor?

ed? edlin?

Erich
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Re: xfburn fails with 'Undefined symbol "__malloc_lock"'

[Manolis Kiagias]

Markus Hoenicka wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've upgraded my laptop from 6.4 to 7.2-RELEASE. Essentially
> everything went fine, except that for some reason xfburn no longer
> works. If I install a package using "portupgrade -f -PP", I see the
> following at runtime:
>
> mar...@yeti:/usr/home/markus# xfburn &
> [1] 47214
> mar...@yeti:/usr/home/markus# /libexec/ld-elf.so.1: /lib/libpthread.so.2: 
> Undefined symbol "__malloc_lock"
>
> If I build xfburn in the ports tree, I get the following error at
> compile time:
>
> /usr/bin/ld: warning: libcam.so.3, needed by /usr/local/lib/libburn.so, may 
> conflict with libcam.so.4
> /lib/libpthread.so.2: undefined reference to `__malloc_lock'
>
> I assume that I somehow managed to botch the 6->7 upgrade, but would
> anyone know how to fix this particular problem?
>
> regards,
> Markus
>   

Upgrading between major versions requires all installed ports to be
rebuilt, so they get linked to the new versions of the libraries.
I suppose you missed this step, older apps may still work but there is a
problem installing new ones.

Please see the instructions at the end of section 24.2.3 (portupgrade etc):

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/updating-upgrading-freebsdupdate.html#FREEBSDUPDATE-UPGRADE

These are still applicable even if you used the traditional source-based
way of upgrading the base system (instead of freebsd-update)

(AFAIR,  if you upgraded via source, you will also need to run make
delete-old-libs in /usr/src after successfully recompiling ports)
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Re: upgrading installed ports: time to do it ?

[RW]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:20:12 +0100
Chris Whitehouse  wrote:

> RW wrote:

> > Portmanger does cope with most of the "portupgrade -o"  and
> > "portupgrade -r" entries, although sometime it will need to be run
> > (or rerun) in pristine-mode. 
> 
> just curious, do you know this because you know how they all work or 
> have you tried them. And how does portmaster fit in? Does it use the 
> same 'leaf-nodes first' algorithm as portmanager?

It's leaf-last, the leaves are on the top of the tree. 

All the upgrade tools build in dependency order, but portmanager also
rebuilds ports that directly depend on the ports it's upgraded
(originally it included indirect dependencies, but that's now only done
in pristine mode). In other words it, more or less, does the equivalent
of "portupgrade -fr" as a matter of course.

As regards "portupgrade -o", it depends on the circumstances. In the
case of perl5.8 to perl5.10, I would expect that it would continue with
perl5.8 until something actually needs perl5.10. It would then detect
a conflict, remove perl5.8, install perl5.10 and then rebuild everything
that depended on perl5.8. Essentially it would do the right thing. I'm
not sure about python, it's bit more complicated, but I would guess it
would be similar to perl.


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Re: mkisofs in FreeBSD

[Daniel Underwood]

Got it. Thanks!
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xfburn fails with 'Undefined symbol "__malloc_lock"'

[Markus Hoenicka]

Hi,

I've upgraded my laptop from 6.4 to 7.2-RELEASE. Essentially
everything went fine, except that for some reason xfburn no longer
works. If I install a package using "portupgrade -f -PP", I see the
following at runtime:

mar...@yeti:/usr/home/markus# xfburn &
[1] 47214
mar...@yeti:/usr/home/markus# /libexec/ld-elf.so.1: /lib/libpthread.so.2: 
Undefined symbol "__malloc_lock"

If I build xfburn in the ports tree, I get the following error at
compile time:

/usr/bin/ld: warning: libcam.so.3, needed by /usr/local/lib/libburn.so, may 
conflict with libcam.so.4
/lib/libpthread.so.2: undefined reference to `__malloc_lock'

I assume that I somehow managed to botch the 6->7 upgrade, but would
anyone know how to fix this particular problem?

regards,
Markus

-- 
Markus Hoenicka
markus.hoeni...@cats.de
(Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka")
http://www.mhoenicka.de
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Re: mkisofs in FreeBSD

[Manolis Kiagias]

Daniel Underwood wrote:
> Ahh, so searching the manpages at FreeBSD.org
> (http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi) will provide only those entries
> pertaining to the base OS?
>   

Not if you select "FreeBSD 7.2-RELEASE and Ports"

Here is the man page you were looking for:

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=mkisofs&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+7.2-RELEASE+and+Ports&format=html
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Re: mkisofs in FreeBSD

[Daniel Underwood]

Ahh, so searching the manpages at FreeBSD.org
(http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi) will provide only those entries
pertaining to the base OS?
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Re: mkisofs in FreeBSD

[Polytropon]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:34:22 -0400, Daniel Underwood  
wrote:
> Looked for mkisofs in the online FreeBSD man pages, but couldn't find
> it. What is modern equivalent?

Ther is no "modern equivalent" - mkisofs is the tool of choice,
and it's very modern because it does the job well which it is
intended for.

Anyway, it does not belong to the base OS, so it needs to be
installed by the port / package "cdrtools". More information
via "man mkisofs" is available then.



-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: mkisofs in FreeBSD

[Bruce Cran]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:34:22 -0400
Daniel Underwood  wrote:

> Looked for mkisofs in the online FreeBSD man pages, but couldn't find
> it. What is modern equivalent?

It's in the sysutils/cdrtools port.

-- 
Bruce Cran
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mkisofs in FreeBSD

[Daniel Underwood]

Looked for mkisofs in the online FreeBSD man pages, but couldn't find
it. What is modern equivalent?
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Re: freeBSD logo

[Randy Belk]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Randall Wood wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:16:12AM -0800, Peter Giessel wrote:
>> >I want to make a t-shirt with the caption "The Power to Serve" but I can't
>> >find it in a good resolution. Can you send it to me?
>>
>> Vector formats (which would allow you to produce any resolution you want)
>> are available here:
>> http://www.freebsd.org/logo.html
>
> Isn't there some sort of restriction on how the logo can be used?  I wrote a 
> post for my website about FreeBSD (PC-BSD, actually) and went looking for the 
> FreeBSD.  I recall there some restrictions on Daemon.  Or are those days over?
>
> One of my favorite looking mascots, by the way.  What a cutie.
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>

The BSD Daemon is Copyrighted by Marshall Kirk McKusick, see
http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/mainpage/copyright.html.
I contacted Mr. McKusick, and his response is below



-- 
- Amiga, The Computer for the creative Mind!
- UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a
genius to understand the simplicity.
- People who hate Microsoft Windows use Linux but people who love UNIX use BSD.
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Re: freeBSD logo

[Randy Belk]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Randy Belk wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Randall Wood wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:16:12AM -0800, Peter Giessel wrote:
>>> >I want to make a t-shirt with the caption "The Power to Serve" but I can't
>>> >find it in a good resolution. Can you send it to me?
>>>
>>> Vector formats (which would allow you to produce any resolution you want)
>>> are available here:
>>> http://www.freebsd.org/logo.html
>>
>> Isn't there some sort of restriction on how the logo can be used?  I wrote a 
>> post for my website about FreeBSD (PC-BSD, actually) and went looking for 
>> the FreeBSD.  I recall there some restrictions on Daemon.  Or are those days 
>> over?
>>
>> One of my favorite looking mascots, by the way.  What a cutie.
>> ___
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>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
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>>
>
> The BSD Daemon is Copyrighted by Marshall Kirk McKusick, see
> http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/mainpage/copyright.html.
> I contacted Mr. McKusick, and his response is below
>
>
>
> --
> - Amiga, The Computer for the creative Mind!
> - UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a
> genius to understand the simplicity.
> - People who hate Microsoft Windows use Linux but people who love UNIX use 
> BSD.
>

Sorry guys, I thought I attached the file but I guess I didn't. Anyway
here is my correspondence with him.
This was concerning my FreeBSD Wallpaper site,
http://picasaweb.google.com/randy.belk/FreeBSDWallpaper.
Sorry for the plug, ;-)

Mr. McKusick's response:

> Mr. McKusick,
>
> I have the site back up and I have also added that your
> are the copyright holder of the BSD Daemon on the top
> right of the page.
>
> I am providing these to the FreeBSD community for free!

Your usage of the BSD Daemon in this context is acceptable.
Please note however that many of the variations that are
used on the wallpaper designs are not owned by me. They have
been created by other people and I do not have the right to
grant your use of those variations on the BSD Daemon. When
you grab a wallpaper to add to your collection you should
ensure that the person that you got it from allows it to be
redistributed.

Marshall Kirk McKusick

-- 
- Amiga, The Computer for the creative Mind!
- UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a
genius to understand the simplicity.
- People who hate Microsoft Windows use Linux but people who love UNIX use BSD.
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Gary Gatten]

I like M$ "Notepad" - is there a version of that for FBSD? Actually the old 
"edit" from dos is sweet too

- Original Message -
From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org 
To: Konrad Heuer 
Cc: Manish Jain ; bf1...@googlemail.com 
; FreeBSD Mailing List 
Sent: Thu Jun 25 15:50:01 2009
Subject: Re: The question of moving vi to /bin



> 20 years ago, I've written and edited voluminous fortran code on a silly
> rs232 terminal using ed. So, it is possible, and one can learn basics of
> ed in less than a hour. Don't you think so?
>

Not when editors like ee and vi are available and more spoken of in
today's topics.

And I know it was mentioned, but the OP seems to have ignored or
refused to acknowledge /rescue/vi which is in the / partition as it's
defaulted partitioned.  Why are we still talking about /usr/bin/vi
(dynamically linked) when /rescue/vi (statically linked) is both in /
and would work for us?
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Re: freeBSD logo

[Randall Wood]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:16:12AM -0800, Peter Giessel wrote:
> >I want to make a t-shirt with the caption "The Power to Serve" but I can't
> >find it in a good resolution. Can you send it to me?
> 
> Vector formats (which would allow you to produce any resolution you want)
> are available here:
> http://www.freebsd.org/logo.html

Isn't there some sort of restriction on how the logo can be used?  I wrote a 
post for my website about FreeBSD (PC-BSD, actually) and went looking for the 
FreeBSD.  I recall there some restrictions on Daemon.  Or are those days over?

One of my favorite looking mascots, by the way.  What a cutie.
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Re: freeBSD logo

[Gary Gatten]

Dude, you used the word "cutie"  That's just messed up...

- Original Message -
From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org 
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org 
Sent: Thu Jun 25 16:01:25 2009
Subject: Re: freeBSD logo

On Thursday 25 June 2009 05:16:12 pm Peter Giessel wrote:
> >I want to make a t-shirt with the caption "The Power to Serve" but I can't
> >find it in a good resolution. Can you send it to me?
>
> Vector formats (which would allow you to produce any resolution you want)
> are available here:
> http://www.freebsd.org/logo.html

Isn't there some sort of restriction on how the logo can be used?  I wrote a
+post for my website about FreeBSD (PC-BSD, actually) and went looking for the
+FreeBSD.  I recall there some restrictions on Daemon.  Or are those days 
over?

One of my favorite looking mascots, by the way.  What a cutie.

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 and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential.
 If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
 any review, use, dissemination, disclosure or copying of this email
 and its attachments, if any, is strictly prohibited.  If you have
 received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by
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Re: freeBSD logo

[Randall Wood]

On Thursday 25 June 2009 05:16:12 pm Peter Giessel wrote:
> >I want to make a t-shirt with the caption "The Power to Serve" but I can't
> >find it in a good resolution. Can you send it to me?
>
> Vector formats (which would allow you to produce any resolution you want)
> are available here:
> http://www.freebsd.org/logo.html

Isn't there some sort of restriction on how the logo can be used?  I wrote a
+post for my website about FreeBSD (PC-BSD, actually) and went looking for the
+FreeBSD.  I recall there some restrictions on Daemon.  Or are those days 
over?

One of my favorite looking mascots, by the way.  What a cutie.

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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Tim Judd]

> 20 years ago, I've written and edited voluminous fortran code on a silly
> rs232 terminal using ed. So, it is possible, and one can learn basics of
> ed in less than a hour. Don't you think so?
>

Not when editors like ee and vi are available and more spoken of in
today's topics.

And I know it was mentioned, but the OP seems to have ignored or
refused to acknowledge /rescue/vi which is in the / partition as it's
defaulted partitioned.  Why are we still talking about /usr/bin/vi
(dynamically linked) when /rescue/vi (statically linked) is both in /
and would work for us?
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Erik Osterholm]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 01:28:54PM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 25 June 2009 pm 13:03:01 Manish Jain wrote:
> > > If you want to make a case for replacing ed(1), you're going
> > > to have to come up with some concrete reasons for doing so,
> > > not just make a (long and hyperbolic) statement that you
> > > don't like it.
> >
> > requirements of being interactive. That's one reason. Secondly,
> > how many times does an average commandline user even think of
> > using ed when he needs to edit a file, even in the extreme case
> > where there are no alternatives ?
> >
> isn't there ee in the base system?

ee is in /usr/bin, just like vi.

 
> > Till the improvements are in place, we need the alternative of
> > having vi under /bin rather than /usr/bin.
> >
> I do not see any reason to have a monster like vi there.

I agree, but for different reasons.

Though I love vi(m), I realize that not everyone does.  If the point
of all of this is to provide an editor which can be used by just about
anyone in the event that /usr is unavailable, vi will not fit the bill
any more than ex will.

ee is a better start, and it's conveniently 1/5 the size of vi.

 
> > But I guess my words are of no use when the people who matter
> > just won't listen. So I give any hopes in this regard.
> 
> I hope that they do not listen.
> 
> It would be even better to have an editor like joe in /bin than 
> anything like vi.

Certainly.

Erik
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Re: The Gimp

[Tim Judd]

On 6/23/09, Rob Hurle  wrote:
>   Due to some meteorological disasters I've had to replace my 6.1
> FreeBSD system and I've installed 7.2 on the refurbished i386
> computer:
>
> freebsd [22:03] ~>uname -a
> FreeBSD freebsd.connect-a.com.au 7.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 7.2-RELEASE #0:
> Fri May  1 08:49:13 UTC 2009
>
> My desktop is KDE Version 4.2.2 (not yet sure that this is an
> improvement over the previous version).  I'm starting to re-install
> software using portupgrade (portinstall).  I've a few problems with
> that, but I'll leave that to another post.  The immediate problem is
> that I've used portinstall to install gimp (picture processing
> software) which I was happily using on the previous version.  It
> installs OK (after a fearful amount of time) but when I start it, I
> get a segmentation fault:
>
> freebsd [22:07] ~>gimp &
> [1] 3696
> freebsd [22:09] ~>
> [1]Segmentation faultgimp
> freebsd [22:09] ~>
>
> If I run as root, there is no problem:
>
> freebsd [22:09] ~>sudo gimp &
> [1] 3700
> freebsd [22:10] ~>
> [1]  + Suspended (tty output)sudo gimp
> freebsd [22:10] ~>fg
> sudo gimp
> Password:
>
> freebsd [22:11] ~>
>
> It starts OK and I can use it fine.  The config file ".gimp-2.6" is
> saved in root's home directory.  I've tried RTFM, but there is no
> information on this problem.  Maybe it's due to some library having
> the wrong permissions and I should search the system for files with
> 544 permissions or something.  Does anyone have a clue as to what's
> going on, or should I report a bug?  Thanks heaps.
>
> Rob Hurle

Rob,

Any chance you're using something like Kerberos, *SQL, LDAP, NIS, or
some other remote database to login to your system?


Is it all local users, or are they all from remote?
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Re: The Gimp

[ill...@gmail.com]

2009/6/23 Rob Hurle :

> freebsd [22:07] ~>gimp &
> [1] 3696
> freebsd [22:09] ~>
> [1]    Segmentation fault            gimp
> freebsd [22:09] ~>
>
> If I run as root, there is no problem:
>
> freebsd [22:09] ~>sudo gimp &
> [1] 3700
> freebsd [22:10] ~>
> [1]  + Suspended (tty output)        sudo gimp
> freebsd [22:10] ~>fg
> sudo gimp
> Password:
>
> freebsd [22:11] ~>
>
> It starts OK and I can use it fine.  The config file ".gimp-2.6" is
> saved in root's home directory.  I've tried RTFM, but there is no
> information on this problem.  Maybe it's due to some library having
> the wrong permissions and I should search the system for files with
> 544 permissions or something.  Does anyone have a clue as to what's
> going on, or should I report a bug?  Thanks heaps.
>

Have you removed ~/.gimp-* directories (if you don't have
any custom settings saved yet)?

Or at least checked the ownership of said directory trees?


-- 
--
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vde2 tap brings down external networking

[Adam Vande More]

I'm trying to network a couple of qemu vm together and to the outside
world.  After much pain and gnashing of teeth I found a setup that works
temporarily.  I start both vm's with a command similar to this:
vde_switch -hub -tap /dev/tap0
chmod -R 666 /var/run/vde.ctl
vdeqemu -vga cirrus -localtime -hda linux-boot-0.img -hdb linux-boot-1.img \
-hdc linux-data-0.img -hdd linux-data-1.img -m 392 -boot c -kernel-kqemu

ipfw divert and natd are present.

ifconfig looks like this:

midco# ifconfig
xl0: flags=8802 metric 0 mtu 1500
options=9
ether 00:04:76:d2:50:25
media: Ethernet 10baseT/UTP (10baseT/UTP )
status: active
nfe0: flags=8943 metric 0
mtu 1500
options=19b
ether 00:04:4b:04:01:28
inet 208.107.54.67 netmask 0xfe00 broadcast 208.107.55.255
media: Ethernet autoselect (100baseTX )
status: active
lo0: flags=8049 metric 0 mtu 16384
inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff00
bridge0: flags=8843 metric 0 mtu
1500
ether e6:56:26:6d:f8:f8
inet 192.168.0.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255
id 00:00:00:00:00:00 priority 32768 hellotime 2 fwddelay 15
maxage 20 holdcnt 6 proto rstp maxaddr 100 timeout 1200
root id 00:00:00:00:00:00 priority 32768 ifcost 0 port 0
member: nfe0 flags=143
ifmaxaddr 0 port 2 priority 128 path cost 20

ipfw show:
midco# ipfw show
65535 1483037 1334261656 allow ip from any to any

once I add tap0 to bridge0 I have only a few minutes to access my external
network.  Once it goes down, I am unable to revive via normal methods eg
/etc/rc.d/netif restart && /etc/rc.d/routed restart.  Anything going to
external network timeouts, but tap/vm stuff is great.  Even destroying
vm's/bridge/tap and bringing everything up doesn't restore networking, I
have to reboot.  netstat -nr looks the same before and after.
midco# netstat -nr
Routing tables

Internet:
DestinationGatewayFlagsRefs  Use  Netif Expire
default208.107.54.1   UGS 0   591581   nfe0
127.0.0.1  127.0.0.1  UH  0   24lo0
192.168.0.0/24 link#4 UC  00 bridge
208.107.54.0/23link#2 UC  00   nfe0
208.107.54.1   00:13:5f:05:e3:d9  UHLW20   nfe0   1198

Internet6:
Destination   Gateway   Flags
Netif Expire
::1   ::1   UHL
lo0
fe80::%lo0/64 fe80::1%lo0   U
lo0
fe80::1%lo0   link#3UHL
lo0
ff01:3::/32   fe80::1%lo0   UC
lo0
ff02::%lo0/32 fe80::1%lo0   UC
lo0

/var/log/messages only had arp stuff relating to bridge which I suppressed.

Thanks,

PS bring up qemu networking in multicast mode to achieve this hangs my cable
modem.

-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: upgrading installed ports: time to do it ?

[Chris Whitehouse]

RW wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:21:21 +0100
Chris Whitehouse  wrote:


RW wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:58:41 +0100
Chris Whitehouse  wrote:

I'll probably get flamed for this but since I've been using 
ports-mgmt/portmanager I've almost forgotten

about /usr/ports/UPDATING and all that pkgdb -Fu stuff or whatever
it was. I've upgraded ports just by doing 'portmanager -u' over
one or two quite major changes and not had any problems that
haven't been down to an individual ports.

You still need to read UPDATING, portmanager handles some of the
issues automatically, but not all.

Not trolling but can you give me some examples?


Many of of the entries aren't solely to do with guiding
portmaster/portupgrade through the upgrade, they may also involve
migrating configuration or user data, or performing other
administrative tasks.

Portmanger does cope with most of the "portupgrade -o"  and
"portupgrade -r" entries, although sometime it will need to be run (or
rerun) in pristine-mode. 


just curious, do you know this because you know how they all work or 
have you tried them. And how does portmaster fit in? Does it use the 
same 'leaf-nodes first' algorithm as portmanager?




However, it doesn't always work correctly when software has been
repackaged because this can create temporary unrecorded conflicts
which are difficult for any tool to deal with. If you see any
instructions to remove packages before upgrading, it's prudent to follow
them. 


Thanks, I'll pay more attention. Maybe I got lucky in the past.

Chris


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Re: upgrading installed ports: time to do it ?

[Chris Whitehouse]

dan wrote:

On Tuesday 23 June 2009 23:21:21 Chris Whitehouse wrote:

RW wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:58:41 +0100

Chris Whitehouse  wrote:

I'll probably get flamed for this but since I've been using
ports-mgmt/portmanager I've almost forgotten
about /usr/ports/UPDATING and all that pkgdb -Fu stuff or whatever it
was. I've upgraded ports just by doing 'portmanager -u' over one or
two quite major changes and not had any problems that haven't been
down to an individual ports.

You still need to read UPDATING, portmanager handles some of the
issues automatically, but not all.

Not trolling but can you give me some examples?

Chris
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Yes. I think there is at least one. Please, consider to correct me if I am 
wrong.


Yesterday, reading the contents of /usr/src/UPDATING in the source tree (using 
portupdate-scan) I found :


"[...]
20090608:
  AFFECTS: users of lang/python* and py-*
  AUTHOR: m...@freebsd.org

  The default version of Python has been changed from 2.5.x to 2.6.x.
  If you have 2.5.x installed, perform an upgrade of lang/python25 to
  lang/python26 with the following command:
[...]
"
Can portmanager know that the default version of a port has been changed and 
then you need to do the upgrade to the newer major version ?


I don't know. I will put testing it on my todo list (which I really do 
hope to get around to :)


Chris



And if it can  know that... can also portmanager know that 


"[...]
Once the installed Python has been updated to 2.6, by using the
  method above, it is required to run the upgrade-site-packages target in
  lang/python to assure that site-packages are made available to the new 
Python

  version.

 [...]   "?

If, otherwise, using portmanager you end up with a newer version of python 2.5 
(for example)... are you sure that every upgrade in the future will work 
flawlessly ? After Reading the UPDATING file a guy will

"
[...]   set the   PYTHON_DEFAULT_VERSION variable to 'python2.5' without 
quotes in  make.conf, then go to lang/python and perform the following

  command:
[...]
"
will portmanager do the same ?


d


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Re: mounting network NTFS drive on FreeBSD

[Zbigniew Szalbot]

Polytropon pisze:

Because "Windows" does not conform to standards, you have to use
mount_smbfs. As far as I understood, it doesn't even matter which
file system is on the "Windows" disk.

I will give an example.


Just want to thank you and Manolis for such immediate help!

I really appreciate it!

Zbigniew Szalbot
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Re: mounting network NTFS drive on FreeBSD

[Polytropon]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:33:12 +0200, Zbigniew Szalbot  
wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to figure out how to mount a network NTFS drive 
> (192.168.16.3\backups) on a FreeBSD system.
> 
> Can you point me to the appropriate documentation? The Handbook mentions 
> the mount command but I am not sure I can do it using mount? Or can I?
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/mount-unmount.html
> 
> Thank you very much in advance!

Because "Windows" does not conform to standards, you have to use
mount_smbfs. As far as I understood, it doesn't even matter which
file system is on the "Windows" disk.

I will give an example.

First, set up those in your /etc/fstab (makes things more easy):

//administra...@ntws2kxx/a$ /smb/a smbfs rw,noauto 0 0
//administra...@ntws2kxx/c$ /smb/c smbfs rw,noauto 0 0
//administra...@ntws2kxx/d$ /smb/d smbfs rw,noauto 0 0
//administra...@ntws2kxx/e$ /smb/e smbfs rw,noauto 0 0
//administra...@ntws2kxx/f$ /smb/f smbfs rw,noauto 0 0

Then, make /etc/nsmb.conf look like this:

[default]
workgroup=ARBEITSGRUPPE
[NTWS2KXX]
addr=192.168.16.3
[NTWS2KXX:Administrator]
password=

You can then simply issue

# mount /smb/c

You can check out manpages for:
mount_smbfs
fstab
nsmb.conf

Then, I'm sure, how you can add a directory name as you mentioned
above (\backups). I think that's possible, too.


-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: mounting network NTFS drive on FreeBSD

[Manolis Kiagias]

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am trying to figure out how to mount a network NTFS drive
> (192.168.16.3\backups) on a FreeBSD system.
>
> Can you point me to the appropriate documentation? The Handbook
> mentions the mount command but I am not sure I can do it using mount?
> Or can I?
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/mount-unmount.html
>
>
> Thank you very much in advance!
>
> Zbigniew Szalbot

Effectively, you will be mounting a Samba (SMB) share and not an NTFS
drive (the latter would be the case if it were made available locally).
See the man page for mount_smbfs

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mounting network NTFS drive on FreeBSD

[Zbigniew Szalbot]

Hello,

I am trying to figure out how to mount a network NTFS drive 
(192.168.16.3\backups) on a FreeBSD system.


Can you point me to the appropriate documentation? The Handbook mentions 
the mount command but I am not sure I can do it using mount? Or can I?

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/mount-unmount.html

Thank you very much in advance!

Zbigniew Szalbot
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Polytropon]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:20:42 -0400, "ill...@gmail.com"  wrote:
> 2009/6/24 Manish Jain :
> > everyone has hundreds of GB's
> > on the disk
> 
> No.  No they don't.  Please hang up and try again.  If you need
> to make a collect call, please dial zero to speak with an oper-
> ator.

Dial all the numbers altogether to talk to the fat guy
with the big hard disk. :-)



-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[ill...@gmail.com]

2009/6/24 Manish Jain :
> everyone has hundreds of GB's
> on the disk

No.  No they don't.  Please hang up and try again.  If you need
to make a collect call, please dial zero to speak with an oper-
ator.

-- 
--
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Re: gmirror gm0 destroyed on shutdown; GPT corrupt

[Marcel Moolenaar]

On Jun 25, 2009, at 4:02 AM, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:

dev_taste(DEV,mirror/gm0)
g_part_taste(PART,mirror/gm0)

GEOM: mirror/gm0: the secondary GPT table is corrupt or invalid.
GEOM: mirror/gm0: using the primary only -- recovery suggested.
^^^


You created the mirror after the GPT, which means you destroyed
the GPT backup header. gmirror uses the last sector on the disk
for metadata and that by itself is a cause for various problems.

It's better to use gmirror per partition.



#echo 'geom_mirror_load="YES"' >> /boot/loader.conf


Is /boot a symlink for /efi/boot?


GEOM_MIRROR: Device gm0 destroyed.
^


This is normal.



And when the system is rebooted, there is no /dev/mirror anymore.


You could run into a race condition between GPT and gmirror and
GPT winning (again the result of gmirror using the last sector
on a disk for metadata).

Alternatively, make sure gmirror got loaded at boot.

FYI,

--
Marcel Moolenaar
xcl...@mac.com



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error www/w3m

[Zbigniew Komarnicki]

Hello,

I got next error on amd64 7.2-RELEASE-p2 

# portmaster /usr/ports/www/w3m
...
cc  -I. -I. -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -march=athlon64   
-I/usr/include/openssl -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include 
-DHAVE_CONFIG_H -DAUXBIN_DIR=\"/usr/local/libexec/w3m\"  
-DCGIBIN_DIR=\"/usr/local/libexec/w3m/cgi-bin\" 
-DHELP_DIR=\"/usr/local/share/w3m\"  -DETC_DIR=\"/usr/local/etc\" 
-DCONF_DIR=\"/usr/local/etc/w3m\"  -DRC_DIR=\"~/.w3m\"  
-DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\" -c 
hash.c
ar rv libindep.a Str.o indep.o regex.o textlist.o parsetag.o myctype.o hash.o
ar: creating libindep.a
a - Str.o
a - indep.o
a - regex.o
a - textlist.o
a - parsetag.o
a - myctype.o
a - hash.o
ranlib libindep.a
cc  -I. -I. -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -march=athlon64   
-I/usr/include/openssl -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include 
-DHAVE_CONFIG_H -DAUXBIN_DIR=\"/usr/local/libexec/w3m\"  
-DCGIBIN_DIR=\"/usr/local/libexec/w3m/cgi-bin\" 
-DHELP_DIR=\"/usr/local/share/w3m\"  -DETC_DIR=\"/usr/local/etc\" 
-DCONF_DIR=\"/usr/local/etc/w3m\"  -DRC_DIR=\"~/.w3m\"  
-DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\" -o 
mktable mktable.o 
dummy.o -L/usr/local/lib -lm -L. -lindep  -L/usr/local/lib -lgc
sort funcname.tab | nawk -f ./functable.awk > functable.tab
./mktable 100 functable.tab > functable.c
Segmentation fault (core dumped)
*** Error code 139

Stop in /usr/ports/www/w3m/work/w3m-0.5.2.
*** Error code 1

Stop in /usr/ports/www/w3m.

===>>> make failed for www/w3m
===>>> Aborting update
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Re: freeBSD logo

[Peter Giessel]

>I want to make a t-shirt with the caption "The Power to Serve" but I can't
>find it in a good resolution. Can you send it to me?

Vector formats (which would allow you to produce any resolution you want)
are available here:
http://www.freebsd.org/logo.html
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Re: freeBSD logo

[Jerry McAllister]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 05:45:33PM +0300, Dimitar Keranov wrote:

> Hello,
> I want to make a t-shirt with the caption "The Power to Serve" but I can't
> find it in a good resolution. Can you send it to me?

Last I knew you could get such T-shirts at the FreeBSD mall or one
of the other sites listed on the FreeBSD web site.

jerry


> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> D. Keranov
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freeBSD logo

[Dimitar Keranov]

Hello,
I want to make a t-shirt with the caption "The Power to Serve" but I can't
find it in a good resolution. Can you send it to me?

Thanks!


D. Keranov
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Re: PPPoE trouble handshaking

[budsz]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:03 PM, Nikos Vassiliadis wrote:
> budsz wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Nikos Vassiliadis
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> budsz wrote:

 I got problem with FreeBSD 7.2-STABLE as router. I use TPLINK modem as
 bridging to my box.
>>>
>>> Could you run "tcpdump -ni rl1" while trying and post
>>> it to the list?
>>
>> If problem appear, I will do it. This problem not regularly, I got the
>> same problem 2 week ago and today. I don't know what happen exactly,
>> but I can dialing again after 3 hours.
>
> So, your configuration works, but at times it gets disconnected.
> And when that disconnection happens, it fails to re-connect. That
> means that if you pull the modem's power plug, you'll be able to
> establish a connection after some time and not immediately, right?
>
> 1) You should also "enable echo" along with "enable lqr".
>
> When you pull the FreeBSD's ethernet plug does it work?
> 2) You should watch the logs and wait for it to disconnect, plug
> the ethernet in and wait to re-connect on its own.
>
> 3) Then you should try the same with the DSL line, pull the plug
> from the modem and it should behave the same way, that is
> disconnect and re-connect on its own.
>
> Do these three steps and if everything works, wait for the
> random disconnection to happen. It should behave the same way.
>
> tcpdump is your friend while trying the above.

OK, dud. Right now I got some problem here output tcpdump -ni rl1:

20:14:58.764661 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x009043C2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:14:58.864426 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x009043C2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:15:00.799157 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0x408612C2] [Service-Name]
20:15:00.799165 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0x408612C2] [Service-Name]
20:15:04.014864 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x408612C2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:15:04.031335 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x408612C2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:15:05.905186 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0xC05C5CC2] [Service-Name]
20:15:05.905193 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0xC05C5CC2] [Service-Name]
20:15:08.964978 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0xC05C5CC2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:15:09.064289 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0xC05C5CC2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:15:11.011223 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0x008922C2] [Service-Name]
20:15:11.011231 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0x008922C2] [Service-Name]
20:15:14.164175 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x008922C2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:15:14.181137 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x008922C2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:15:16.117251 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0xC0595CC2] [Service-Name]
20:15:16.117259 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0xC0595CC2] [Service-Name]
20:15:19.248075 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0xC0595CC2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:15:19.264056 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0xC0595CC2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:15:22.367294 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0x007D22C2] [Service-Name]
20:15:22.367302 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0x408612C2] [Service-Name]
20:15:22.367311 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0x408612C2] [Service-Name]
20:15:25.464788 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x007D22C2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:15:25.480781 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x408612C2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:15:25.497286 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x408612C2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:15:27.473336 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0x805B5CC2] [Service-Name]


tcpdump: WARNING: rl1: no IPv4 address assigned
tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode
listening on rl1, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 96 bytes
20:16:18.533688 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0x009443C2] [Service-Name]
20:16:18.533695 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0x009443C2] [Service-Name]
20:16:18.968779 PPPoE  [ses 0x197f] LCP, Conf-Request (0x01), id 92, length 21
20:16:21.662866 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x009443C2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:16:21.679340 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x009443C2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:16:22.040825 PPPoE  [ses 0x197f] LCP, Conf-Request (0x01), id 92, length 21
20:16:23.639726 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0x005B5CC2] [Service-Name]
20:16:23.639733 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0x005B5CC2] [Service-Name]
20:16:25.138200 PPPoE  [ses 0x197f] LCP, Conf-Request (0x01), id 92, length 21
20:16:26.762773 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x005B5CC2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:16:26.779243 PPPoE PADO [Host-Uniq 0x005B5CC2] [AC-Name
"BRAS-D3-BDG-8Y224150703147"] [Service-Name]
20:16:28.562282 PPPoE PADT [ses 0x197f]
20:16:28.562306 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0xC08722C2] [Service-Name]
20:16:28.745757 PPPoE PADI [Host-Uniq 0xC08722C2] [Service-Name]

We got disconnected after get some warning in /var/log/ppp.log:

Jun 25 20:12:15 rtr-gw ppp[346]: tun0: Phase: deflin

Re: PPPoE trouble handshaking

[Nikos Vassiliadis]

budsz wrote:

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Nikos Vassiliadis wrote:

budsz wrote:

I got problem with FreeBSD 7.2-STABLE as router. I use TPLINK modem as
bridging to my box.

Could you run "tcpdump -ni rl1" while trying and post
it to the list?


If problem appear, I will do it. This problem not regularly, I got the
same problem 2 week ago and today. I don't know what happen exactly,
but I can dialing again after 3 hours.


So, your configuration works, but at times it gets disconnected.
And when that disconnection happens, it fails to re-connect. That
means that if you pull the modem's power plug, you'll be able to
establish a connection after some time and not immediately, right?

1) You should also "enable echo" along with "enable lqr".

When you pull the FreeBSD's ethernet plug does it work?
2) You should watch the logs and wait for it to disconnect, plug
the ethernet in and wait to re-connect on its own.

3) Then you should try the same with the DSL line, pull the plug
from the modem and it should behave the same way, that is
disconnect and re-connect on its own.

Do these three steps and if everything works, wait for the
random disconnection to happen. It should behave the same way.

tcpdump is your friend while trying the above.

HTH, Nikos

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FreeBSD wireless connection problems

[Jay Hall]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have a development box which is connected to the wireless network  
via an Intellinet wireless bridge.  Periodically, the development box  
will no longer pass data on the network.  However, checking the access  
point, I can see the bridge is still associated with the access point  
and is reporting the correct IP address.


I am running FreeBSD 7.2 on the development box, running the em driver  
for the network card.  The wireless bridge is connected via an  
ethernet cable to the em0 interface.
The wireless bridge is an Intellinet Wireless LAN Base Stand set to  
Bridge in Infrastructure mode.
The access point is a Cisco 1131AG with 3 vlans.  Only the guest SSID  
is not hidden.  I am not connecting to the guest SSID.


At first I thought this was a problem with the wireless bridge.   
However, connecting the bridge to a Windows box yields a stable  
connection.


If I disable ARP Caching on the access point, clear the arp cache, and  
then re-enable ARP caching, (dot11 arp-cache optional) the system will  
reappear on the network.


I have upgraded to the latest/greatest IOS for the access point  
without any improvement.


Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,



Jay

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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Manish Jain]

Ruben de Groot wrote:

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 01:36:31AM -0400, John L. Templer typed:

ed is an interactive program, and it has always been considered as such,
at least since BSD 4.2.  Way back then there were three main editors,
ex, vi, and ed.  If you had a nice video terminal then you used vi.  But
if you were stuck using a hard copy terminal like a Decwriter, then you
used ex.  And ed was the simplified (dumbed down) editor for newbies.

ed is an interactive program because the user "interacts" with it.  You
give it command, it does something, you give it some more commands, it
does more stuff, etc.  Interactive does not mean screen based.


ed can be used very well non-interactively.
e.g. a script made by diff -e can be piped to it.

Ruben




What I meant was the primary usage. Of course, there are many tools (ed 
included) which will allow non-interactive usage, and still others which 
 can be tweaked or forced into that behaviour. The point about ed is 
that it does not live up to the needs of its primary mode.


Somebody mentioned something about getting multi-line replacement 
functionality from ed that is not possible with sed. If only the 
gentleman would go through the documentation for a recent version of 
sed, he could save himself from a lot of further pain. This following 
link was posted a few days earlier from freebsd-questions itself :


http://www.grymoire.com/Unix/Sed.html

There probably isn't much to compare between freebsd and cygwin, but 
cygwin has dropped ed (and afaik only ed) from its base distribution not 
for nothing. Maybe they were concerned about the bloat factor, and for 
good reason in ed's case.


--
Regards
Manish Jain
invalid.poin...@gmail.com
+91-96500-10329

Laast year I kudn't spell Software Engineer. Now I are won.
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Re: Versioning File System for FreeBSD?

[cpghost]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 01:59:45AM +0200, Roland Smith wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:57:34PM +0200, cpghost wrote:
> > Quite true!
> > 
> > I see even more ambiguity here: What about a versioned file pointed
> > to by hard links from two versioned directories?
> 
> The more I think about it, the more problems I can see. Look e.g. at
> symbolic links. Or looking from the vc side, what about branches
> (checking out an older version of a file and editing it). Does it
> automatically become the new head, or are concurrent branches allowed?
>  
> > And even if the semantics were absolutely sound (can they be?), all
> > this meta data really needs to happen on a block level, e.g. how
> > described in that paper.
> 
> I really wonder if combining a filesystem and a version control system
> is a good idea?

After a good night's sleep, and rethinking the whole concept,
I agree that this is not such a good idea after all. At least
not until I fully understand how (directory) versioning actually
is supposed to work semantically AND under the hood.

I'll stick to subversion (and will try git and hg as well), until
I find a better solution.

> > And there's another problem here: what if two processes concurrently
> > save (commit?) the same file, and there's a merging conflict?
> 
> I'd say that two processes should _never_ open the same file for writing
> at the same time. Since the contents of the file are opaque to the file
> system but not to the programs, it is impossible for the filesystem to
> fix merge conflicts. 

Right!

> If you have multiple programs working together only one should write to
> the file in question. The others should communicate with the writing
> program via IPC.

Serializing file access? Yes, that makes sense.

> > > > Of course, there would be additional API calls to traverse the
> > > > list of revisions, to access meta data (properties?, tags?,
> > > > commit logs?, ...) etc., so that the file system remains manageable.
> > > 
> > > VMS had a filesystem that uses versioning: 
> > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Files-11]
> > 
> > I was thinking about this before starting this thread. But file
> > versioning (as opposed to full versioning that also includes
> > directory versioning) is probably relatively easy to implement.
> > At least, its semantics are unambiguous.
> 
> Indeed. It seems the VMS filesystem just tacks a semicolon and a nummer
> on to the filename.

Yep, that's one way to do it.

If you're willing to go to the block level, I could imagine the inode
of a versioned file linking to versioned direct / indirect blocks, i.e.
one inode linking to more than just one ("physical") file. To keep things
simple, the inode could link to a circular buffer of N (direct/indirect
block links). Those versioned files could also COW-share blocks, but
that's nothing conceptual, just an optimization.

That would be pure file versioning: directories are linking to the
inode, and each inode would potentially refer to N revisions of a file.
But if it makes sense or not is something else altogether.

Thanks for the great brainstorming. Things are clearer to me now. ;-)

> Roland
> -- 
> R.F.Smith   http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/
> [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated]
> pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914  B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725)

-cpghost.

-- 
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
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Re: Versioning File System for FreeBSD?

[cpghost]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 12:33:23AM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:57:34 +0200, cpghost  wrote:
> > Yep, you're right. I thought about a way to extend the API in a
> > backwards compatible way, but that's not as easy or straight
> > forward as it seems. In fact, it opens a whole can of worms.
> > 
> > If the versioned file system isn't also POSIX compatible (where
> > everything happens in HEAD unless specified otherwise), it's
> > practically useless.
> 
> The question is: Do you want to take versioning support into
> the file system intendedly? FreeBSD keeps most things on a
> per-file basis (ordinary files, devices, processes etc.).
> Versioning can always be added as a separate solution
> (using versioning systems as separate programs) that does
> not make any assumptions on the file system used. As you
> concluded, the file system's complexity would of course
> grow with those requirements. In addition to your arguments,
> just imagine how a fsck for such a file system would have
> to be implemented...

Yep. The more I think about it, the less obvious it becomes.
IMHO, file versioning a la VMS would be possible (somehow),
but everything beyond that (esp. directory versioning)
requires a LOT of careful thinking.

-cpghost.

-- 
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Re: PPPoE trouble handshaking

[budsz]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Nikos Vassiliadis wrote:
> budsz wrote:
>>
>> I got problem with FreeBSD 7.2-STABLE as router. I use TPLINK modem as
>> bridging to my box.
>
> Could you run "tcpdump -ni rl1" while trying and post
> it to the list?

If problem appear, I will do it. This problem not regularly, I got the
same problem 2 week ago and today. I don't know what happen exactly,
but I can dialing again after 3 hours.

Thank You.

-- 
budsz
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Re: 7.2 system stuck trying at boot, trying to mount root device

[usleepless]

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Polytropon  wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:13:41 -0400, Forrest Aldrich 
> wrote:
> > I also did a proper mount, fsck, and umount under the LiveFS shell,
> > which made no difference.
>
> I hope I'm just reading it in the wrong order. The correct
> order is to 1st fsck, then mount, not vice versa. Never
> fsck a mounted file system.
>
>
>
> > The other messages I see on the console include GEOM output:
> >
> > GEOM_LABEL:  Label for provider ad4s1a is ufsid/blahblah
> >
> > then
> >
> > GEOM_LABEL: Label for ufsid/blahblah removed.
>
> This is completely normal today. As long as a file system is
> not mounted, the label is provided. When it gets mounted, this
> label is being removed. You see this on your console.
>
>
>
> > Anyone know how I can rescue this?
>
> Does /var/log/messages show something strange looking?
>
>
I experienced similar behaviour recently when i had built kernel+userland
with "-fomit-frame-pointer".

I ended up doing a "repair" from an install CD, and rebuilding kernel+world
without "-fomit-frame-pointer" afterwards.

Your "init" is probably broken.

regards,

usleepless



>
>
> --
> Polytropon
> >From Magdeburg, Germany
> Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
> Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Konrad Heuer]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Manish Jain wrote:


If you want to make a case for replacing ed(1), you're going to have
to come up with some concrete reasons for doing so, not just make a
(long and hyperbolic) statement that you don't like it.



Any Unix tool has to clearly fall either under the category of 
non-interactive (grep, sed, ex) or interactive (vi, wget, sysinstall). The 
case of non-interactive tools is simple : just do what you are told on the 
commandline and exit. For interactive tools, at a minimum, the application 
has to be show what data it is working on and what it does with the data when 
the user presses a key (or a series of them). ed was never meant to be 
non-interactive, and it does not fulfil the basic requirements of being 
interactive. That's one reason. Secondly, how many times does an average 
commandline user even think of using ed when he needs to edit a file, even in 
the extreme case where there are no alternatives ?



There have been some recent changes:

http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/194628 



that suggest that this problem is being addressed.


Till the improvements are in place, we need the alternative of having vi 
under /bin rather than /usr/bin.


Actually, it surprises me to what extent the core of the FreeBSD community is 
enamoured with this idea of a micro-minimalistic base, in which it is 
practically impossible to do anything except run fsck. Matters don't stop 
there. Seeing the limitations of this approach, the community churns up wierd 
workarounds like /rescue/vi, when all that was needed was shift vi from /usr. 
You talk about the need for compliance with old hardware and embedded systems 
to save a few kilos. How old is the hardware that you have in mind ? The 
oldest system running FreeBSD I know of is a 1997 Pentium with a 2 GB disk, 
and even that can easily withstand the change I am suggesting. Machines older 
than that are actually DEAD and don't have to be factored in. As for embedded 
systems, the primary target of FreeBSD is servers, workstations and *tops. 
The embedded world hasn't survived riding on FreeBSD, nor the other way 
round. So from the viewpoint of the greatest good of the largest number, 
over-indulging a mindset fixed around minimizing the base only leads to 
degradation, not improvement. Getting to boast of a 900K / won't do any good 
when people are thinking of having decent firepower (even while in 
single-user mode) and its ease of use.


But I guess my words are of no use when the people who matter just won't 
listen. So I give any hopes in this regard.


Maybe you're right, maybe not.

20 years ago, I've written and edited voluminous fortran code on a silly 
rs232 terminal using ed. So, it is possible, and one can learn basics of 
ed in less than a hour. Don't you think so?


Best regards

Konrad Heuer
GWDG, Am Fassberg, 37077 Goettingen, Germany, kheu...@gwdg.de

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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Ruben de Groot]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 01:36:31AM -0400, John L. Templer typed:
> 
> ed is an interactive program, and it has always been considered as such,
> at least since BSD 4.2.  Way back then there were three main editors,
> ex, vi, and ed.  If you had a nice video terminal then you used vi.  But
> if you were stuck using a hard copy terminal like a Decwriter, then you
> used ex.  And ed was the simplified (dumbed down) editor for newbies.
> 
> ed is an interactive program because the user "interacts" with it.  You
> give it command, it does something, you give it some more commands, it
> does more stuff, etc.  Interactive does not mean screen based.

ed can be used very well non-interactively.
e.g. a script made by diff -e can be piped to it.

Ruben

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gmirror gm0 destroyed on shutdown; GPT corrupt

[Anton Shterenlikht]

FreeBSD 8.0-CURRENT-200906 ia64, fresh installation

Following the handbook, section 19.1 RAID1 - mirroring, I'm trying to
use gmirror with 2 identical scsi disks:

da0 at mpt0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
da0:  Fixed Direct Access SCSI-3 device
da0: 160.000MB/s transfers (80.000MHz, offset 63, 16bit)
da0: Command Queueing Enabled
da0: 17366MB (35566478 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 2213C)
da1 at mpt0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0
da1:  Fixed Direct Access SCSI-3 device
da1: 160.000MB/s transfers (80.000MHz, offset 63, 16bit)
da1: Command Queueing Enabled
da1: 17366MB (35566478 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 2213C)


# sysctl kern.geom.debugflags=17
kern.geom.debugflags: 0 -> 17

# gmirror label -vb round-robin gm0 /dev/da0
Metadata value stored on /dev/da0.
Done.

# gmirror load
#g_modevent(MIRROR, LOAD)
g_post_event_x(0xe4b8eb10, 0xe00010686e40, 2, 262144)
g_load_class(MIRROR)
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, acd0t01)
acd0: FAILURE - READ_BIG MEDIUM ERROR asc=0x02 ascq=0x00
g_detach(0xe000106eb580)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106eb580)
g_destroy_geom(0xe00010724800(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, acd0)
acd0: FAILURE - READ_BIG MEDIUM ERROR asc=0x02 ascq=0x00
g_detach(0xe000106eb700)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106eb700)
g_destroy_geom(0xe00010724a00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da2p6)
g_detach(0xe000106eb880)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106eb880)
g_destroy_geom(0xe00010724c00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da2p5)
g_detach(0xe000106eba80)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106eba80)
g_destroy_geom(0xe00010724c00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da2p4)
g_detach(0xe000106ebc00)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106ebc00)
g_destroy_geom(0xe00010630700(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da2p3)
g_detach(0xe00010738000)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe00010738000)
g_destroy_geom(0xe00010724e00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da2p2)
g_detach(0xe00010738180)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe00010738180)
g_destroy_geom(0xe0001075f400(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da2p1)
g_detach(0xe00010620e80)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe00010620e80)
g_destroy_geom(0xe00010724a00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da0p6)
g_detach(0xe000106e9580)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106e9580)
g_destroy_geom(0xe00010724800(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da0p5)
g_detach(0xe00010739700)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe00010739700)
g_destroy_geom(0xe000108f8f00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da0p4)
g_detach(0xe00010739680)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe00010739680)
g_destroy_geom(0xe000108f8d00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da0p3)
g_detach(0xe00010739800)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe00010739800)
g_destroy_geom(0xe0001072ce00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da0p2)
g_detach(0xe00010739780)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe00010739780)
g_destroy_geom(0xe000108f8700(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da0p1)
g_detach(0xe000106e9680)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106e9680)
g_destroy_geom(0xe0001072cb00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da2)
g_detach(0xe000106a4900)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106a4900)
g_destroy_geom(0xe0001075fa00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da1)
g_detach(0xe000106ebc80)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106ebc80)
g_destroy_geom(0xe00010630b00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, da0)
g_detach(0xe000106e8400)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106e8400)
g_destroy_geom(0xe0001072c800(mirror:taste))
g_post_event_x(0xe4b861c0, 0xe000108f9000, 2, 0)
  ref 0xe000108f9000
  ref 0xe00010760800
GEOM_MIRROR: Device mirror/gm0 launched (1/1).
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, ufsid/4a3fa1b76cb317b5)
g_detach(0xe000106a4780)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106a4780)
g_destroy_geom(0xe000108fa300(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, ufsid/4a3fa1b69c522d30)
g_detach(0xe000106e9900)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106e9900)
g_destroy_geom(0xe000108fac00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, ufsid/4a3fa1b751514347)
g_detach(0xe000106ebb00)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106ebb00)
g_destroy_geom(0xe0001075f300(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, ufsid/4a3fa1b5e5003da2)
g_detach(0xe000106e9880)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106e9880)
g_destroy_geom(0xe00010763600(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, iso9660/FreeBSD_Install)
acd0: FAILURE - READ_BIG MEDIUM ERROR asc=0x02 ascq=0x00
g_detach(0xe00010738080)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe00010738080)
g_destroy_geom(0xe0001081dd00(mirror:taste))
g_mirror_taste(MIRROR, mirror/gm0)
g_detach(0xe000106e9980)
g_destroy_consumer(0xe000106e9980)
g_destroy_geom(0xe00010763600(mirror:taste))
dev_taste(DEV,mirror/gm0)
g_part_taste(PART,mirror/gm0)

GEOM: mirror/gm0: the secondary GPT table is corrupt or invalid.
GEOM: mirror/gm0: using the primary only -- recovery suggested.
^^^

g_post_event_x(0xe4b861c0, 0xe000108fa400, 2, 0)
  ref 0

Re: PPPoE trouble handshaking

[Nikos Vassiliadis]

budsz wrote:

I got problem with FreeBSD 7.2-STABLE as router. I use TPLINK modem as
bridging to my box.


Could you run "tcpdump -ni rl1" while trying and post
it to the list?

Nikos
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Manish Jain]

John L. Templer wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Manish Jain wrote:

If you want to make a case for replacing ed(1), you're going to have
to come up with some concrete reasons for doing so, not just make a
(long and hyperbolic) statement that you don't like it.
  

Any Unix tool has to clearly fall either under the category of
non-interactive (grep, sed, ex) or interactive (vi, wget, sysinstall).


Oh really?  Many Unix programs have traditionally had both a command
line mode of operation and an interactive mode, and that's still pretty
much still true.  Usually when you run a program you put arguments on
the command line, and the program does what those arguments tell it to
do.  But for many programs, if you run them with no arguments they run
in interactive mode and wait for the user to issue commands telling the
program what to do.


The case of non-interactive tools is simple : just do what you are told
on the commandline and exit. For interactive tools, at a minimum, the
application has to be show what data it is working on and what it does
with the data when the user presses a key (or a series of them). ed was
never meant to be non-interactive, and it does not fulfil the basic
requirements of being interactive. That's one reason. Secondly, how many
times does an average commandline user even think of using ed when he
needs to edit a file, even in the extreme case where there are no
alternatives ?


ed is an interactive program, and it has always been considered as such,
at least since BSD 4.2.  Way back then there were three main editors,
ex, vi, and ed.  If you had a nice video terminal then you used vi.  But
if you were stuck using a hard copy terminal like a Decwriter, then you
used ex.  And ed was the simplified (dumbed down) editor for newbies.

ed is an interactive program because the user "interacts" with it.  You
give it command, it does something, you give it some more commands, it
does more stuff, etc.  Interactive does not mean screen based.


Till the improvements are in place, we need the alternative of having vi
under /bin rather than /usr/bin.

Actually, it surprises me to what extent the core of the FreeBSD
community is enamoured with this idea of a micro-minimalistic base, in
which it is practically impossible to do anything except run fsck.
Matters don't stop there. Seeing the limitations of this approach, the
community churns up wierd workarounds like /rescue/vi, when all that was
needed was shift vi from /usr. You talk about the need for compliance
with old hardware and embedded systems to save a few kilos. How old is
the hardware that you have in mind ? The oldest system running FreeBSD I
know of is a 1997 Pentium with a 2 GB disk, and even that can easily
withstand the change I am suggesting. Machines older than that are
actually DEAD and don't have to be factored in. As for embedded systems,
the primary target of FreeBSD is servers, workstations and *tops. The
embedded world hasn't survived riding on FreeBSD, nor the other way
round. So from the viewpoint of the greatest good of the largest number,
over-indulging a mindset fixed around minimizing the base only leads to
degradation, not improvement. Getting to boast of a 900K / won't do any
good when people are thinking of having decent firepower (even while in
single-user mode) and its ease of use.


It's not just keeping the core system small, it's ensuring that if the
disk containing /usr fails to mount, then you still have enough of the
system to fix the problem.  Admittedly this isn't as much of a concern
now, what with rescue disks and CDs with bootable live systems, but it's
still nice to have.

John L. Templer
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkpDDM0ACgkQjkAlo11skePG4wCgjq4plp71Yattn34UP9YIyv4k
VagAoKDcLGVPQBxae6FABGa5hLI9w4gM
=+Ed7
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Hi John,

I really think you need to go through Unix's history again to get your 
facts anywhere close to reality.


--
Regards
Manish Jain
invalid.poin...@gmail.com
+91-96500-10329

Laast year I kudn't spell Software Engineer. Now I are won.
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PPPoE trouble handshaking

[budsz]

Hi,

I got problem with FreeBSD 7.2-STABLE as router. I use TPLINK modem as
bridging to my box.
here is my /etc/ppp/ppp.conf:

default:
#set log Phase Chat LCP IPCP CCP tun command
#set log all
set log Phase tun command

speedy:
set device PPPoE:rl1

set authname xx...@isp.net
set authkey x
set dial
set login
set cd 5
set crtscts off
add default HISADDR
set timeout 0 # 3 minute idle timer (the default)
# no idle time out, will not disconnect

set mru 1492
set mtu 1492

set speed sync

enable lqr
set lqrperiod 5
enable mssfixup

# For noisy lines, we may want to reconnect (up to 20 times) after loss
# of carrier, with 3 second delays between each attempt:
#
#set reconnect 3 20
set redial 0 0

I try to use -ddial mode with ppp(8). Here is log problem /var/log/ppp.log:

Jun 25 12:00:01 rtr-gw ppp[346]: tun0: Phase: deflink: Disconnected!
Jun 25 12:00:01 rtr-gw ppp[346]: tun0: Phase: deflink: carrier -> hangup
Jun 25 12:00:01 rtr-gw ppp[346]: tun0: Phase: deflink: Connect time: 5
secs: 0 octets in, 0 octets out
Jun 25 12:00:01 rtr-gw ppp[346]: tun0: Phase: deflink: 0 packets in, 0
packets out
Jun 25 12:00:01 rtr-gw ppp[346]: tun0: Phase:  total 0 bytes/sec, peak
0 bytes/sec on Thu Jun 25 11:59:56 2009
Jun 25 12:00:01 rtr-gw ppp[346]: tun0: Phase: deflink: hangup -> opening
Jun 25 12:00:01 rtr-gw ppp[346]: tun0: Phase: deflink: Enter pause (0)
for redialing.
Jun 25 12:00:01 rtr-gw ppp[346]: tun0: Phase: deflink: Connected!
Jun 25 12:00:01 rtr-gw ppp[346]: tun0: Phase: deflink: opening -> dial
Jun 25 12:00:01 rtr-gw ppp[346]: tun0: Phase: deflink: dial -> carrier
Jun 25 12:00:06 rtr-gw ppp[346]: tun0: Phase: deflink: Disconnected!

And, with full debug mode:

Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Timer:  Begin of Timer
Service List---
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Timer: physical throughput
timer[0x28412068]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.00s, state = running
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Timer:  End of Timer
Service List ---
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Timer: timer_Start: Inserting
physical throughput timer[0x28412068]
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Phase: deflink: Disconnected!
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Phase: deflink: carrier -> hangup
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Debug: deflink: Close
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Phase: deflink: Connect time:
5 secs: 0 octets in, 0 octets out
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Phase: deflink: 0 packets in,
0 packets out
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Phase:  total 0 bytes/sec,
peak 0 bytes/sec on Thu Jun 25 11:24:27 2009
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Phase: deflink: hangup -> opening
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Timer: timer_Start: Inserting
dial timer[0x28410d44]
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Phase: deflink: Enter pause
(0) for redialing.
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Timer: Select returns -1
Jun 25 11:24:32 rtr-gw ppp[3090]: tun0: Chat: deflink: Redial timer expired.

Anyone know this problem.. my box very hard to negotiation with my ISP.

Thank You

-- 
budsz
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[perryh]

> ed is an interactive program, and it has always been considered as
> such, at least since BSD 4.2.  Way back then there were three main
> editors, ex, vi, and ed.

ed goes back at least as far as the Bell Labs 6th Edition (PDP-11),
where it was the only editor in the distribution.  ex and vi (and
termcap, without which there would be no vi) were written later, at
UC Berkeley.

> If you had a nice video terminal then you used vi.  But if you
> were stuck using a hard copy terminal like a Decwriter, then you
> used ex.  And ed was the simplified (dumbed down) editor for
> newbies.

More like, ed was the "original" Unix editor; ex and vi presumably
were inspired, at least in part, by a desire to improve on ed's
limitations.  I doubt I'm the only one who muttered about the bother
of horsing around with ed, back when there was nothing else.
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Re: The question of moving vi to /bin

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

On 25 June 2009 pm 13:03:01 Manish Jain wrote:
> > If you want to make a case for replacing ed(1), you're going
> > to have to come up with some concrete reasons for doing so,
> > not just make a (long and hyperbolic) statement that you
> > don't like it.
>
> requirements of being interactive. That's one reason. Secondly,
> how many times does an average commandline user even think of
> using ed when he needs to edit a file, even in the extreme case
> where there are no alternatives ?
>
isn't there ee in the base system?

> Till the improvements are in place, we need the alternative of
> having vi under /bin rather than /usr/bin.
>
I do not see any reason to have a monster like vi there.

> Actually, it surprises me to what extent the core of the
> FreeBSD community is enamoured with this idea of a
> micro-minimalistic base, in which it is practically impossible
> to do anything except run fsck. Matters don't stop there.
> Seeing the limitations of this approach, the community churns
> up wierd workarounds like /rescue/vi, when all that was needed
> was shift vi from /usr. You talk about the need for compliance

Only people who want to use vi do this. The rest is happy with ee.

> But I guess my words are of no use when the people who matter
> just won't listen. So I give any hopes in this regard.

I hope that they do not listen.

It would be even better to have an editor like joe in /bin than 
anything like vi.

Erich
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