Re: [MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT
> >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>>> > I'm looking for information about the prices of post-editing of raw MT output. > Whereas human translation is mainly based on the unit "word" as a cost base, > in the case of the post-editor, which is the situation? how much is s/he > paid, more or less? Lorena, sorry for my late reply. see: Postediting at ABLE International (cf. http://linguistlist.org/issues/10/10-1258.html) Since 1996, I have noticed a trend among translation agencies and free-lance translators moving toward per hour fees for both TM fuzzy-matching editing and MT postediting tasks. > Henrik Gade [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > We regard post-editing as a qualified human translation work with a little MT help to speed up the process, We are producing literally hundreds of manuals a year, so speed is essential. We don't use fuzzy matches - Systranet produces really good raw texts, if we fine tune the English original. Henrik, If you are pre-editing the text (ie controlling the input text), and the texts have any significant amount of repetition, then your re-authoring / translation cycle could be optimized. Why not apply memory-based strategies to the input so that you can better leverage the texts? See: Adapting the concept of "Translation Memory" to "Authoring memory" for a Controlled Language writing environment. (Available on-line at: http://www.transref.org/u-articles/allen2.asp) > >>> "Grasmick, Daniel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote>>> > how do you reward the translators doing post-editing of TM fuzzy matches? I would say to give them translator-friendly software that corresponds to their needs. For example, providing the output in SGML or XML tagged texts with font differentiated tags that separate the TM fuzzy match output from MT output and make it easier to identify them. Also, translation-specific features like a word mover (see description of such a feature in: http://www.multilingual.com/allen50.htm ) Placing MT output into MS Word files and using Word to postedit the documents is inefficient use of a translator's time unless Word has been customized to offer the same kinds of editing features that are found in the desktop interface versions of translation software. Regards, Jeff -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
RE: [MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT
Hi Lorena and Henrik, In our case we combine TM and MT for most of the translation projects - and deliver translation memories containing also raw MT segments to our agencies for post-editing. MT matches are treated like TM fuzzy matches of category 2 and paid about* 60% of the normal price. Hendrik, how do you reward the translators doing post-editing of TM fuzzy matches? Best, Daniel * about 60% since this has to be negociated and depends a) on the quality of the source and b) obviously also on the quality and maturity of the MT system used. -Original Message- From: Henrik Gade [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mittwoch, 6. August 2003 13:17 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT Dear Lorena, We normally pay per hour for post-editing of raw MT-output, the list price being approx. 70 euro per hour subject to the agencies we use. Best regards Henrik W. Gade The R&D Department, Medtronic A/S, Copenhagen >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 08/06/03 12:32pm >>> Dear all, I'm looking for information about the prices of post-editing of raw MT output. Whereas human translation is mainly based on the unit "word" as a cost base, in the case of the post-editor, which is the situation? how much is s/he paid, more or less? Thanks, Lorena Postgraduate student at DCU- Ireland Information needed for my dissertation in Translation Technology -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
Re: [MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT
Dear Lorena, We normally pay per hour for post-editing of raw MT-output, the list price being approx. 70 euro per hour subject to the agencies we use. Best regards Henrik W. Gade The R&D Department, Medtronic A/S, Copenhagen >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 08/06/03 12:32pm >>> Dear all, I'm looking for information about the prices of post-editing of raw MT output. Whereas human translation is mainly based on the unit "word" as a cost base, in the case of the post-editor, which is the situation? how much is s/he paid, more or less? Thanks, Lorena Postgraduate student at DCU- Ireland Information needed for my dissertation in Translation Technology -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
Re: [MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT
Dear Daniel and Henrik, as a developer of integrated TM and MT I couldn't agree more with Daniel. I hope you, Henrik, do take his advice and use the postedited MT as a TM resource. Thank you for the interesting dialogue, Gudrun Magnusdottir ESTeam AB "Grasmick, Daniel" wrote: > Hi Henrik, > > Thank you for this lively exchange. > :-) > We have started to combine MT and TM for the translation of mass data in 1993-94 and > have certainly translated and edited (internally and externally) well other than 100 > million segments. > > Our philosophy is the following: > - a segment edited by a human translator is generally of better value than an MT raw > segment. This is why we extract only the source segments having a match value under > 75% - compared to the specific memory for this project. > - after having machine-translated the delta, we reimport the MT raw segments (that > have normally only been "machine edited" using pattern matching rules). The MT > segments get a penalty of 15% - and are therefore always listed before fuzzy matches > of values under 75%. > - we think that a good MT match is very often better that an average fuzzy match but > prefer to leave the decision to the post-editors. > In our opinion, both technologies have always been complementary and do not exclude > each other. > As far as I know, Medtronics is also a big user of TM. > Do you know Peter Wilms van Kersbergen? > Maybe we should exchange other ideas "offline" and not hijack Lorena's original > mail... > (Sorry if other people felt bored...) > Thank you again and best regards, > Daniel > > -Original Message- > From: Henrik Gade [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 6. August 2003 14:59 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Grasmick, Daniel > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT > > Dear Daniel, > > We regard post-editing as a qualified human translation work with a little MT help > to speed up the process, We are producing literally hundreds of manuals a year, so > speed is essential. We don't use fuzzy matches - Systranet produces really good raw > texts, if we fine tune the English original. > > Best regards > Henrik > > >>> "Grasmick, Daniel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 08/06/03 02:21pm >>> > Hi Lorena and Henrik, > > In our case we combine TM and MT for most of the translation projects - and deliver > translation memories containing also raw MT segments to our agencies for > post-editing. > MT matches are treated like TM fuzzy matches of category 2 and paid about* 60% of > the normal price. > > Hendrik, how do you reward the translators doing post-editing of TM fuzzy matches? > > Best, > Daniel > * about 60% since this has to be negociated and depends a) on the quality of the > source and b) obviously also on the quality and maturity of the MT system used. > > -Original Message- > From: Henrik Gade [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 6. August 2003 13:17 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT > > Dear Lorena, > > We normally pay per hour for post-editing of raw MT-output, the list price being > approx. 70 euro per hour subject to the agencies we use. > > Best regards > Henrik W. Gade > > The R&D Department, Medtronic A/S, Copenhagen > > >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 08/06/03 12:32pm >>> > Dear all, > > I'm looking for information about the prices of post-editing of raw MT output. > Whereas human translation is mainly based on the unit "word" as a cost base, > in the case of the post-editor, which is the situation? how much is s/he > paid, more or less? > Thanks, > > Lorena > Postgraduate student at DCU- Ireland > Information needed for my dissertation in Translation Technology > > -- > For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html > > -- > For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html > > -- > For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
[MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT
Dear all, I'm looking for information about the prices of post-editing of raw MT output. Whereas human translation is mainly based on the unit "word" as a cost base, in the case of the post-editor, which is the situation? how much is s/he paid, more or less? Thanks, Lorena Postgraduate student at DCU- Ireland Information needed for my dissertation in Translation Technology -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
RE: [MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT
Dear Daniel, We regard post-editing as a qualified human translation work with a little MT help to speed up the process, We are producing literally hundreds of manuals a year, so speed is essential. We don't use fuzzy matches - Systranet produces really good raw texts, if we fine tune the English original. Best regards Henrik >>> "Grasmick, Daniel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 08/06/03 02:21pm >>> Hi Lorena and Henrik, In our case we combine TM and MT for most of the translation projects - and deliver translation memories containing also raw MT segments to our agencies for post-editing. MT matches are treated like TM fuzzy matches of category 2 and paid about* 60% of the normal price. Hendrik, how do you reward the translators doing post-editing of TM fuzzy matches? Best, Daniel * about 60% since this has to be negociated and depends a) on the quality of the source and b) obviously also on the quality and maturity of the MT system used. -Original Message- From: Henrik Gade [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mittwoch, 6. August 2003 13:17 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT Dear Lorena, We normally pay per hour for post-editing of raw MT-output, the list price being approx. 70 euro per hour subject to the agencies we use. Best regards Henrik W. Gade The R&D Department, Medtronic A/S, Copenhagen >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 08/06/03 12:32pm >>> Dear all, I'm looking for information about the prices of post-editing of raw MT output. Whereas human translation is mainly based on the unit "word" as a cost base, in the case of the post-editor, which is the situation? how much is s/he paid, more or less? Thanks, Lorena Postgraduate student at DCU- Ireland Information needed for my dissertation in Translation Technology -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
RE: [MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT
Hi Henrik, Thank you for this lively exchange. :-) We have started to combine MT and TM for the translation of mass data in 1993-94 and have certainly translated and edited (internally and externally) well other than 100 million segments. Our philosophy is the following: - a segment edited by a human translator is generally of better value than an MT raw segment. This is why we extract only the source segments having a match value under 75% - compared to the specific memory for this project. - after having machine-translated the delta, we reimport the MT raw segments (that have normally only been "machine edited" using pattern matching rules). The MT segments get a penalty of 15% - and are therefore always listed before fuzzy matches of values under 75%. - we think that a good MT match is very often better that an average fuzzy match but prefer to leave the decision to the post-editors. In our opinion, both technologies have always been complementary and do not exclude each other. As far as I know, Medtronics is also a big user of TM. Do you know Peter Wilms van Kersbergen? Maybe we should exchange other ideas "offline" and not hijack Lorena's original mail... (Sorry if other people felt bored...) Thank you again and best regards, Daniel -Original Message- From: Henrik Gade [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mittwoch, 6. August 2003 14:59 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Grasmick, Daniel Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT Dear Daniel, We regard post-editing as a qualified human translation work with a little MT help to speed up the process, We are producing literally hundreds of manuals a year, so speed is essential. We don't use fuzzy matches - Systranet produces really good raw texts, if we fine tune the English original. Best regards Henrik >>> "Grasmick, Daniel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 08/06/03 02:21pm >>> Hi Lorena and Henrik, In our case we combine TM and MT for most of the translation projects - and deliver translation memories containing also raw MT segments to our agencies for post-editing. MT matches are treated like TM fuzzy matches of category 2 and paid about* 60% of the normal price. Hendrik, how do you reward the translators doing post-editing of TM fuzzy matches? Best, Daniel * about 60% since this has to be negociated and depends a) on the quality of the source and b) obviously also on the quality and maturity of the MT system used. -Original Message- From: Henrik Gade [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mittwoch, 6. August 2003 13:17 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MT-List] Pricing Post-editing of MT Dear Lorena, We normally pay per hour for post-editing of raw MT-output, the list price being approx. 70 euro per hour subject to the agencies we use. Best regards Henrik W. Gade The R&D Department, Medtronic A/S, Copenhagen >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 08/06/03 12:32pm >>> Dear all, I'm looking for information about the prices of post-editing of raw MT output. Whereas human translation is mainly based on the unit "word" as a cost base, in the case of the post-editor, which is the situation? how much is s/he paid, more or less? Thanks, Lorena Postgraduate student at DCU- Ireland Information needed for my dissertation in Translation Technology -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html -- For MT-List info, see http://www.eamt.org/mt-list.html
