Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-30 Thread Maurizio Lotauro
Scrive Francois PIETTE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> > But I'm also not sure if this is good solution
> 
> I'm still wondering.
> Renaming everything and cleaning up thing is of course very interesting for 
> new users. But for existing users, it would require a lot of work converting
> 
> their old code to the new versions. And that may be fatal to ICS: current 
> user would not upgrade to new version because they have no time to do the 
> changes required by the new version !
> All in all I wonder if it is not better to simply make V6 as compatible as 
> possible with V5. That is dropping support for old compilers (this would 
> make the source code much cleaner) and adding new features without breaking 
> existing ones. If I do that, current ICS user would have no change at all 
> or - if they use an old compiler - just upgrade to the current Delphi or 
> CBuilder compiler (The old compilers would not compile new features using 
> recent language construction).

Compability is a good think but it could be a limit to the evolution.
I think that changing the class name make sense only when compability is 
broken (not for small think).
If you planned to do heavly changes in the component suite then  I would 
suggest to delay the change of name at that point.
For a developer revise the existent code to use the new capabilities make 
sense, only for changing names with the perspective to revise again when the 
components will reworked no.


Bye, Maurizio.



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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Wilfried Mestdagh
Hello Francois,

V5 is very stable. It stay existing, and support may not be dropped the
first time, but new users and new projects should start to use V6. So
this way it is not direct problem.

However I'm not 100% sure myself of what I say :)

---
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http://www.overbyte.be/eng/overbyte/teamics.html
http://www.mestdagh.biz

Thursday, December 29, 2005, 10:41, Francois PIETTE wrote:

>> But I'm also not sure if this is good solution

> I'm still wondering.
> Renaming everything and cleaning up thing is of course very interesting for
> new users. But for existing users, it would require a lot of work converting
> their old code to the new versions. And that may be fatal to ICS: current
> user would not upgrade to new version because they have no time to do the
> changes required by the new version !
> All in all I wonder if it is not better to simply make V6 as compatible as
> possible with V5. That is dropping support for old compilers (this would
> make the source code much cleaner) and adding new features without breaking
> existing ones. If I do that, current ICS user would have no change at all
> or - if they use an old compiler - just upgrade to the current Delphi or
> CBuilder compiler (The old compilers would not compile new features using
> recent language construction).

> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.overbyte.be


> - Original Message - 
> From: "Wilfried Mestdagh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "ICS support mailing" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming


>> Hello Francois,
>>
>>> I wonder if I should also change all class names. For example rename
>>> TWSocket to TOverbyteIcsSocket or TIcsSocket. This way, ICS component
>>> would
>>> be clearly identified.
>>
>> True.
>>
>>> This of course would require a lot of changes in
>>> existing applications, including in dfm.
>>
>> No the component users could have 2 sets of ICS installed, the old
>> generation and the new one.
>>
>> But I'm also not sure if this is good solution, unless it is totally new
>> generation, like exclude all synchronious stuff, 1 hidden window (as
>> it is already), other stuff like in the past 10 years many properties
>> where add, could be it can be drastically simplified.
>>
>> ---
>> Rgds, Wilfried [TeamICS]


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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Wilfried Mestdagh
Hello Miha,

Very good idea. It is even possible to have more / other methods /
properties / events in the new generation while the old generation stay
backward compatible !

---
Rgds, Wilfried [TeamICS]
http://www.overbyte.be/eng/overbyte/teamics.html
http://www.mestdagh.biz

Thursday, December 29, 2005, 11:39, Miha Remec wrote:

>> I have not taken the final decision yet.
>> I'm still grabbing other's opinion.

> Rename classes as wanted ie. TWSocket to TIcsSocket (or using any other
> prefix), then create proxy unit like below.

> a) It would have some sort of redirection from old types to new types:

> unit IcsProxyV5;

> type
>   TWSocket = class(TIcsSocket);

> b) It would have another and separate registration procedure:

> procedure Register
> begin
>   RegisterComponents('ICS', [TWSocket]);
> end;

> At the end, pack this proxy unit in a separate package that would be used by
> existing users to switch to new version without any changes.

> This way, old applications would recognize components with existing names
> and could use new version with old names. New applications would start using
> new components.


> Kind regards,
> --
> Miha Remec


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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Wilfried Mestdagh
Hello Angus,

It has happened but almost never in compare with other vendors. Another
example is the BannerToBusy property changed to BannerTooBusy, but it is
very minor work alwasy, wich I cannot say from many other component
vendors.

I think it is strong in ICS the backward compatibility. A short while
ago I had a maintenance in an application of 1997 with TWSocket. I did
not have to do any code changes :)

---
Rgds, Wilfried [TeamICS]
http://www.overbyte.be/eng/overbyte/teamics.html
http://www.mestdagh.biz

Thursday, December 29, 2005, 15:01, Angus Robertson - Magenta Systems Ltd wrote:

>> I do not agree with you. I can't say it never happened, but it was 
>> very uncommon that any change in ICS required _application_ code 
>> change.

> The most recent example is SSL, the versions in the last few months 
> required numerous application changes over the original implementation,
> it's all an improvement but not a quick recompile, needing to hunt 
> though various demo applications for the changes needed.  

> Another that caused me trouble was:

> Jun 18, 2001  V1.30 Renamed property WSocket to CtrlSocket (this
>  require code change in user application too).


> Angus

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Angus Robertson - Magenta Systems Ltd
> I do not agree with you. I can't say it never happened, but it was 
> very uncommon that any change in ICS required _application_ code 
> change.

The most recent example is SSL, the versions in the last few months 
required numerous application changes over the original implementation, 
it's all an improvement but not a quick recompile, needing to hunt 
though various demo applications for the changes needed.  

Another that caused me trouble was:

Jun 18, 2001  V1.30 Renamed property WSocket to CtrlSocket (this
 require code change in user application too).


Angus
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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Primož Gabrijelčič
> All in all I wonder if it is not better to simply make V6 as 
> compatible as possible with V5. That is dropping support for 
> old compilers (this would make the source code much cleaner) 
> and adding new features without breaking existing ones. If I 
> do that, current ICS user would have no change at all or - if 
> they use an old compiler - just upgrade to the current Delphi 
> or CBuilder compiler (The old compilers would not compile new 
> features using recent language construction).

If there is no scenario where V5 ICS works better than V6 ICS then I would
like to see V6 as a 'drop in' replacement for V5 - as ICS was managed until
now.

As for the compiler support, I personally need only D7 and D2006.

Primoz

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Dod
Hello,

Excellent  idea  so  you  can use either TWSocket or TIcsSocket as you
want !

>> Rename classes as wanted ie. TWSocket to TIcsSocket (or using
>> any other prefix), then create proxy unit like below.
>> type
>>  TWSocket = class(TIcsSocket);

FP> What a good idea ! I wonder how I didn't had it myself :-)

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Francois PIETTE
>> Many component vendors or ICS competitors always to a lot of changes
>> between versions. ICS never done that and it is one major strength of
>> ICS.

> This is partially a myth, because property changes in new ICS versions
> often mean changes in applications, even if the class names are the same.

I do not agree with you. I can't say it never happened, but it was very 
uncommon that any change in ICS required _application_ code change.

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Francois PIETTE
> Rename classes as wanted ie. TWSocket to TIcsSocket (or using
> any other prefix), then create proxy unit like below.
> type
>  TWSocket = class(TIcsSocket);

What a good idea ! I wonder how I didn't had it myself :-)

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- Original Message - 
From: "Miha Remec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ICS support mailing" 
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming


>> I have not taken the final decision yet.
>> I'm still grabbing other's opinion.
>
> Rename classes as wanted ie. TWSocket to TIcsSocket (or using any other
> prefix), then create proxy unit like below.
>
> a) It would have some sort of redirection from old types to new types:
>
> unit IcsProxyV5;
>
> type
>  TWSocket = class(TIcsSocket);
>
> b) It would have another and separate registration procedure:
>
> procedure Register
> begin
>  RegisterComponents('ICS', [TWSocket]);
> end;
>
> At the end, pack this proxy unit in a separate package that would be used 
> by
> existing users to switch to new version without any changes.
>
> This way, old applications would recognize components with existing names
> and could use new version with old names. New applications would start 
> using
> new components.
>
>
> Kind regards,
> --
> Miha Remec
>
> -- 
> To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list
> please goto http://www.elists.org/mailman/listinfo/twsocket
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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Angus Robertson - Magenta Systems Ltd
> Many component vendors or ICS competitors always to a lot of changes 
> between versions. ICS never done that and it is one major strength of 
> ICS. 

This is partially a myth, because property changes in new ICS versions 
often mean changes in applications, even if the class names are the same.

Angus
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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Miha Remec
> I have not taken the final decision yet.
> I'm still grabbing other's opinion.

Rename classes as wanted ie. TWSocket to TIcsSocket (or using any other
prefix), then create proxy unit like below.

a) It would have some sort of redirection from old types to new types:

unit IcsProxyV5;

type
  TWSocket = class(TIcsSocket);

b) It would have another and separate registration procedure:

procedure Register
begin
  RegisterComponents('ICS', [TWSocket]);
end;

At the end, pack this proxy unit in a separate package that would be used by
existing users to switch to new version without any changes.

This way, old applications would recognize components with existing names
and could use new version with old names. New applications would start using
new components.


Kind regards,
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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Guillaume MAISON
Francois PIETTE a écrit :
>>That seems to be nicer. But for those who are still working with old
>>compilers, that wouldn't do it.
>>Except if you make the old versions available (leaving a place where to
>>download the V5).
> 
> 
> I don't plan to delete V5 ! It will stay there for download.

i didn't mean you wanted to remove it from space ;) ;)

>>if support is not available for compilers before a version n, could it
>>be then possible to have for users some kind of a comparative sheet
>>between ICS versions (starting from version 5 ;)? it shouldn't be to
>>difficult as you know what would be removed from the source code.
> 
> I will not remove any feature between V5 and V6. I will _add_ features in 
> V6.

that's what i supposed, but it means that there'll be ICS versions for 
some compilers and not for other compilers.

hence, making available some datasheet comparing compilers and features 
would be a plus :

+-+-+-+-+---+--+
| ics ver | Feature | D 1 | D 2,3,4 | D 5,6 | D 7,2k5, 2k6 |
+-+-+-+-+---+--+
|  1..6   | F1  |  X  |X|   X   |  X   |
+-+-+-+-+---+--+
|   ...   |   ...   | ... |   ...   |  ...  | ...  |
+-+-+-+-+---+--+
|  5..6   | Fn  | | |   X   |  X   |
+-+-+-+-+---+--+
|   ...   |   ...   | ... |   ...   |  ...  | ...  |
+-+-+-+-+---+--+
|6| Fx  | | |   |  X   |
+-+-+-+-+---+--+
|   ...   |   ...   | ... |   ...   |  ...  | ...  |
+-+-+-+-+---+--+

But, AFAICS, that would be quite a huge work this datasheet ;)


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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Francois PIETTE
>> I'm still wondering.
>> Renaming everything and cleaning up thing is of course very interesting 
>> for
>> new users. But for existing users, it would require a lot of work 
>> converting
>> their old code to the new versions. And that may be fatal to ICS: current
>> user would not upgrade to new version because they have no time to do the
>> changes required by the new version !
>> All in all I wonder if it is not better to simply make V6 as compatible 
>> as
>> possible with V5. That is dropping support for old compilers (this would
>> make the source code much cleaner) and adding new features without 
>> breaking
>> existing ones. If I do that, current ICS user would have no change at all
>> or - if they use an old compiler - just upgrade to the current Delphi or
>> CBuilder compiler (The old compilers would not compile new features using
>> recent language construction).
>
> That seems to be nicer. But for those who are still working with old
> compilers, that wouldn't do it.
> Except if you make the old versions available (leaving a place where to
> download the V5).

I don't plan to delete V5 ! It will stay there for download.

> if support is not available for compilers before a version n, could it
> be then possible to have for users some kind of a comparative sheet
> between ICS versions (starting from version 5 ;)? it shouldn't be to
> difficult as you know what would be removed from the source code.

I will not remove any feature between V5 and V6. I will _add_ features in 
V6.

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Guillaume MAISON
Francois PIETTE a écrit :
> I'm still wondering.
> Renaming everything and cleaning up thing is of course very interesting for 
> new users. But for existing users, it would require a lot of work converting 
> their old code to the new versions. And that may be fatal to ICS: current 
> user would not upgrade to new version because they have no time to do the 
> changes required by the new version !
> All in all I wonder if it is not better to simply make V6 as compatible as 
> possible with V5. That is dropping support for old compilers (this would 
> make the source code much cleaner) and adding new features without breaking 
> existing ones. If I do that, current ICS user would have no change at all 
> or - if they use an old compiler - just upgrade to the current Delphi or 
> CBuilder compiler (The old compilers would not compile new features using 
> recent language construction).

That seems to be nicer. But for those who are still working with old 
compilers, that wouldn't do it.
Except if you make the old versions available (leaving a place where to 
download the V5).

And those who are working with old compilers should be warned that some 
features are not available...

if support is not available for compilers before a version n, could it 
be then possible to have for users some kind of a comparative sheet 
between ICS versions (starting from version 5 ;)? it shouldn't be to 
difficult as you know what would be removed from the source code.

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Francois PIETTE
>> I wonder if I should also change all class names. For example rename
>> TWSocket to TOverbyteIcsSocket or TIcsSocket. This way, ICS component
>>  would be clearly identified. This of course would require a lot of 
>> changes in
>> existing applications, including in dfm.

> I'm not fully against, I say 60% keep the actual naming.

I have not taken the final decision yet.
I'm still grabbing other's opinion.

Many component vendors or ICS competitors always to a lot of changes between 
versions. ICS never done that and it is one major strength of ICS. I'm very 
tempted to preserve this strength. But the cost in term on code complexity 
(I mean into the component) is more and more heavy. That's why I consider 
restarting on new fresh base.

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Dod
Hello Francois,

So TIscSocket should be ok because TOverByteIcsSocket is too long :-)

FP> Not better. A component name need a prefix, not a suffix.
FP> TIcsSocket or TIcsWSocket or TOverbyteIcsSocket or...

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-29 Thread Francois PIETTE
> But I'm also not sure if this is good solution

I'm still wondering.
Renaming everything and cleaning up thing is of course very interesting for 
new users. But for existing users, it would require a lot of work converting 
their old code to the new versions. And that may be fatal to ICS: current 
user would not upgrade to new version because they have no time to do the 
changes required by the new version !
All in all I wonder if it is not better to simply make V6 as compatible as 
possible with V5. That is dropping support for old compilers (this would 
make the source code much cleaner) and adding new features without breaking 
existing ones. If I do that, current ICS user would have no change at all 
or - if they use an old compiler - just upgrade to the current Delphi or 
CBuilder compiler (The old compilers would not compile new features using 
recent language construction).

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- Original Message - 
From: "Wilfried Mestdagh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ICS support mailing" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming


> Hello Francois,
>
>> I wonder if I should also change all class names. For example rename
>> TWSocket to TOverbyteIcsSocket or TIcsSocket. This way, ICS component 
>> would
>> be clearly identified.
>
> True.
>
>> This of course would require a lot of changes in
>> existing applications, including in dfm.
>
> No the component users could have 2 sets of ICS installed, the old
> generation and the new one.
>
> But I'm also not sure if this is good solution, unless it is totally new
> generation, like exclude all synchronious stuff, 1 hidden window (as
> it is already), other stuff like in the past 10 years many properties
> where add, could be it can be drastically simplified.
>
> ---
> Rgds, Wilfried [TeamICS]

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-28 Thread Maurizio Lotauro
Scrive Francois PIETTE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I renamed ICS-V6 files to have ICS files clearly identified. The consequence
> 
> is that all source code using the component must be updated to change file 
> names in their uses clause.

This will not a big problem when it generate an error at compile time.
A problem could be for people that will not delete the old dcu's.

> I wonder if I should also change all class names. For example rename 
> TWSocket to TOverbyteIcsSocket or TIcsSocket. This way, ICS component would 
> be clearly identified. This of course would require a lot of changes in 
> existing applications, including in dfm.

Certainly yes, and this is not a funny work to do.
You forget to mention all inherited components.

> What do you think ?

I'm not fully against, I say 60% keep the actual naming.
But if it is really necessary please avoid long prefixes :-)


Bye, Maurizio.



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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-28 Thread Wilfried Mestdagh
Hello Francois,

> I wonder if I should also change all class names. For example rename
> TWSocket to TOverbyteIcsSocket or TIcsSocket. This way, ICS component would
> be clearly identified.

True.

> This of course would require a lot of changes in
> existing applications, including in dfm.

No the component users could have 2 sets of ICS installed, the old
generation and the new one.

But I'm also not sure if this is good solution, unless it is totally new
generation, like exclude all synchronious stuff, 1 hidden window (as
it is already), other stuff like in the past 10 years many properties
where add, could be it can be drastically simplified.

---
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http://www.overbyte.be/eng/overbyte/teamics.html
http://www.mestdagh.biz

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-28 Thread Francois PIETTE
>>> TWSocketV6 sounds good for example so in the future you will be able
>>> to have TWSocketV7, TWSocketV8 ...

> OK so TWSocketICS ?

Not better. A component name need a prefix, not a suffix.
TIcsSocket or TIcsWSocket or TOverbyteIcsSocket or...
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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-28 Thread Dod
Hello Francois,

OK so TWSocketICS ?

>> TWSocketV6 sounds good for example so in the future you will be able
>> to have TWSocketV7, TWSocketV8 ...

FP> I don't like this idea. On of my main rules when developing component is to 
FP> preserve existing code.
FP> V6 would break that rule but only once between V5 and V6. Later versions 
FP> will preserve the code: no more file or class renamed. Just recompile and 
FP> you are up and running with the newer version. I've done that with great 
FP> success for the past 9 years (yes, ICS has more than 9 years !).

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-28 Thread Francois PIETTE
> TWSocketV6 sounds good for example so in the future you will be able
> to have TWSocketV7, TWSocketV8 ...

I don't like this idea. On of my main rules when developing component is to 
preserve existing code.
V6 would break that rule but only once between V5 and V6. Later versions 
will preserve the code: no more file or class renamed. Just recompile and 
you are up and running with the newer version. I've done that with great 
success for the past 9 years (yes, ICS has more than 9 years !).

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-28 Thread Francois PIETTE
> I tried to Install both packages but there are some problems like
> "THttpClient class already exists".
>
> Keeping both may be usefull to be able to open old V5 applications and
> also new V6 ones.

You can simply select/unselect the packages from hte component/install 
packages menu. Just a little bit annoying but quick and easy.

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-28 Thread Francois PIETTE
> Maybe I missed: why do you need to rename?

I said: "This way, ICS component  would  be clearly identified."
The idea is really to have better naming convention. To start on better 
basis.
My idea is to release V6 for the 10th ICS birthday which is in april 2006. 
This release would break the main rule I observed during those 10 years: 
preserve existing code.

> Why would one person need to install both v5 and v6?

They won't except during the intermediate period. V5 would be used only for 
maintening old programs or by those using outdated compilers.

> If they want, they can install them different
> folders and install the associated package of them one at a time.

Of course.

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-28 Thread Dod
Hello Francois,

TWSocketV6 sounds good for example so in the future you will be able
to have TWSocketV7, TWSocketV8 ...

FP> I renamed ICS-V6 files to have ICS files clearly identified. The 
consequence 
FP> is that all source code using the component must be updated to change file 
FP> names in their uses clause.

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-28 Thread Dod
Hello,

I tried to Install both packages but there are some problems like
"THttpClient class already exists".

Keeping both may be usefull to be able to open old V5 applications and
also new V6 ones.

FT> Maybe I missed: why do you need to rename? Why would one person need to
FT> install both v5 and v6? If they want, they can install them different 
FT> folders and install the associated package of them one at a time.

FT> Regards,

FT> SZ 

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Re: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming

2005-12-28 Thread Fastream Technologies

- Original Message - 
From: "Francois PIETTE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:20 PM
Subject: [twsocket] ICS-V6 files and classes naming


...
> I wonder if I should also change all class names. For example rename
> TWSocket to TOverbyteIcsSocket or TIcsSocket. This way, ICS component 
> would
> be clearly identified. This of course would require a lot of changes in
> existing applications, including in dfm.
>
> What do you think ?

Maybe I missed: why do you need to rename? Why would one person need to 
install both v5 and v6? If they want, they can install them different 
folders and install the associated package of them one at a time.

Regards,

SZ 

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