Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Adrian Kennard]

On 2015-03-23 20:38, Simon Lockhart wrote:
> As long as it's 'legal', we don't really mind what the content is. Cause us
> to get several copyright infringement notices, and we'll get annoyed.

Same sort of view we have - we're not police or your mum, we're mere
conduit... But don't cause us or other customers hassle!

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Christian de Larrinaga]

Such an important observation.

ISOC is increasingly involved in helping seed various IX projects
particularly in the developing world.  I hope that message is instilled
loud and clear.

Christian

Keith Mitchell wrote:
>>> On 25/03/2015 12:14, "Jon Morby (FidoNet)"  wrote:
 Someone described it to me along the lines of ³kids leave 
 Uni/College in Brighton and have jobs to go to Š they can either
  bugger off back up north and sign on up there, or they can try 
 to make a go of something in Brighton / Hove / Worthing / etc 
 where they¹ve been living for the last 3-4 years anyway and
 maybe get somewhere² Š the idea of the Digital Catapult and the
 BDX and Wired Sussex / et al is to try and see if we can help
 make that happen.
> 
>> Indeed … but they have to start somewhere and at least they’re trying
>> to do something - within the framework they have been given
>>
>> (yes it might be GiGo .. but at least they’re doing something .. and
>>  it might work if the planets align :)
> 
> There is a chicken and egg relationship between Internet Exchange
> infrastructure in a given region, and the community/ecosystem which
> supports it, that it in turn supports. If one expects the
> introduction of one to solve the lack of the other, it is doomed to
> fail. Been there, seen that, multiple times.
> 
> Community building is not something you can do in months, or even a
> year, it requires a long-haul commitment, with a longer cycle than is
> generally consistently deliverable from public servants of various flavours.
> 
> This is no longer the 1990s where the density of IXPs per country was
> low enough to convey a big enough first-mover advantage that the
> infrastructure egg could shortcut the community chicken. Infrastructure
> and community building need to go hand-in-hand.
> 
> I'm not making any value-judgement of such initiatives (indeed wearing
> my Open-IX hat more better IXPs are a good thing if done right), just
> saying it's not a trivial undertaking. Good luck.
> 
> Keith
> 

-- 
Christian de Larrinaga
FBCS, CITP, MCMA
-
@ FirstHand
-
+44 7989 386778
c...@firsthand.net
-

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Keith Mitchell]

>> On 25/03/2015 12:14, "Jon Morby (FidoNet)"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Someone described it to me along the lines of ³kids leave 
>>> Uni/College in Brighton and have jobs to go to Š they can either
>>>  bugger off back up north and sign on up there, or they can try 
>>> to make a go of something in Brighton / Hove / Worthing / etc 
>>> where they¹ve been living for the last 3-4 years anyway and
>>> maybe get somewhere² Š the idea of the Digital Catapult and the
>>> BDX and Wired Sussex / et al is to try and see if we can help
>>> make that happen.

> Indeed … but they have to start somewhere and at least they’re trying
> to do something - within the framework they have been given
> 
> (yes it might be GiGo .. but at least they’re doing something .. and
>  it might work if the planets align :)

There is a chicken and egg relationship between Internet Exchange
infrastructure in a given region, and the community/ecosystem which
supports it, that it in turn supports. If one expects the
introduction of one to solve the lack of the other, it is doomed to
fail. Been there, seen that, multiple times.

Community building is not something you can do in months, or even a
year, it requires a long-haul commitment, with a longer cycle than is
generally consistently deliverable from public servants of various flavours.

This is no longer the 1990s where the density of IXPs per country was
low enough to convey a big enough first-mover advantage that the
infrastructure egg could shortcut the community chicken. Infrastructure
and community building need to go hand-in-hand.

I'm not making any value-judgement of such initiatives (indeed wearing
my Open-IX hat more better IXPs are a good thing if done right), just
saying it's not a trivial undertaking. Good luck.

Keith

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Christian de Larrinaga]

Neil - Correct. Government goals are not aligned.

Neil J. McRae wrote:
> 

*

> Which I think is a greal goal Jon, but I believe too many government
> organisations are starting at the wrong place.
> 


>> My personal goal is to have enough excuses to move to Brighton and ³semi
>> retire² there Š hell I¹m nearly 45 Š that¹s over 100 in IT years :) (but
>> I will still want decent connectivity when I retire :)
> 
> G.FAST our other ³so 90¹s" technology I¹m sure will help you Jon!
> 
> Neil.
> 

oh dear ;-)



-- 
Christian de Larrinaga

@ FirstHand
-
+44 7989 386778
c...@firsthand.net
-

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Christian de Larrinaga]

You're already far to old to retire. Just go to Brighton whilst you are
still breathing. :-)

We see similar goings on in Bath Bristol area too. Hopefully this can
lead to some kind of renaissance for UK tech businesses.

best Christian

Jon Morby (FidoNet) wrote:
> Initially you need to be present in either New England House (96 businesses 
> currently are and they’re planning on building a second building next door to 
> increase capacity), or at one of FastNet or FidoNet’s data centres, or 
> connected to MetraNet’s wireless ring around Brighton or be in one of the 
> buildings that are “adjacent” such as Vantage Point
> 
> There are musings about running fibre from the BDX to the business quarter .. 
> but that depends on demand
> 
> Currently the council are busy trying to bring more tech businesses to the 
> "New England quarter" … there are a lot of “fused” businesses (whatever the 
> hell that means) in the local area already and more tech businesses appearing 
> daily (something like 100 startups all operating out of Wired Sussex alone - 
> on top of the businesses in the NEH complex already)
> 
> This is all fledgling stuff, but it seemed worthy so we jumped in on the 
> ground floor … chances of profit are negligible at least in early days, but 
> the BDX seems to have the right idea.
> 
> Someone described it to me along the lines of “kids leave Uni/College in 
> Brighton and have jobs to go to … they can either bugger off back up north 
> and sign on up there, or they can try to make a go of something in Brighton / 
> Hove / Worthing / etc where they’ve been living for the last 3-4 years anyway 
> and maybe get somewhere” … the idea of the Digital Catapult and the BDX and 
> Wired Sussex / et al is to try and see if we can help make that happen.
> 
> My personal goal is to have enough excuses to move to Brighton and “semi 
> retire” there … hell I’m nearly 45 … that’s over 100 in IT years :) (but I 
> will still want decent connectivity when I retire :)
> 
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
>> On 25 Mar 2015, at 11:55, Christian de Larrinaga  wrote:
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> Given that you say the connectivity locally is poor and presumably tied
>> into the "circuit" model into an exchange fabric how do people reach the
>> IX in order to join it usefully?
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> Jon Morby (FidoNet) wrote:
>>> The IX is secondary (and I don’t anticipate a fast start or a lot of 
>>> traffic, especially not when comparing to other regional IXs).
>>>
>>> The DX is the primary driver to help kickstart tech businesses and give 
>>> them a central focal point for innovation / etc … this is one small part of 
>>> a much larger initiative
>>>
>>> The distinct lack of high speed internet has been a problem for a long 
>>> time, the quality of life is there but the last mile is awful and not “fit 
>>> for business” use
>>>
>>> FTTC is starting to appear but too little too late … hopefully the BDX will 
>>> act as catalyst, mixed in with other initiatives, to help tech companies 
>>> start and to grow whist not being dependent on London for the basics.
>>>
>>> I guess we’ll measure the success as to whether or not the BDX is still 
>>> going in 3 years time as whilst it is a co-operative, it does have to be 
>>> self funding so we need members to join either the IX or the DX or both
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> J
>>>
>>>
 On 24 Mar 2015, at 23:00, Neil J. McRae  wrote:

 Jon
 Can't help but think that an IX is going to offer very limited benefit in 
 turning Brighton into a digital centre. They would be far better investing 
 the money into tech literacy efforts. How are they measuring success? 

 Regards, 
 Neil 
>>>
>> -- 
>> Christian de Larrinaga
>> FBCS, CITP, MCMA
>> -
>> @ FirstHand
>> -
>> +44 7989 386778
>> c...@firsthand.net
>> -
> 
> 

-- 
Christian de Larrinaga
FBCS, CITP, MCMA
-
@ FirstHand
-
+44 7989 386778
c...@firsthand.net
-

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Christian de Larrinaga]

Ha! That is indeed a step forward and .. At least you can be sure you
will never knowingly be undersold! ;-)

Neil J. McRae wrote:
>> On 25 Mar 2015, at 11:55, Christian de Larrinaga  wrote:
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> Given that you say the connectivity locally is poor and presumably tied
>> into the "circuit" model into an exchange fabric how do people reach the
>> IX in order to join it usefully?
>>
> 
> You order a fantastic Ethernet solution from BTWholesale of course! Luckily 
> our "so 90s" solution  will get you there! 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Christian de Larrinaga
FBCS, CITP, MCMA
-
@ FirstHand
-
+44 7989 386778
c...@firsthand.net
-

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Jon Morby (FidoNet)]

> On 25 Mar 2015, at 12:20, Neil J. McRae  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 25/03/2015 12:14, "Jon Morby (FidoNet)"  wrote:
>> 
>> Someone described it to me along the lines of ³kids leave Uni/College in
>> Brighton and have jobs to go to Š they can either bugger off back up
>> north and sign on up there, or they can try to make a go of something in
>> Brighton / Hove / Worthing / etc where they¹ve been living for the last
>> 3-4 years anyway and maybe get somewhere² Š the idea of the Digital
>> Catapult and the BDX and Wired Sussex / et al is to try and see if we can
>> help make that happen.
> 
> Which I think is a greal goal Jon, but I believe too many government
> organisations are starting at the wrong place.

Indeed … but they have to start somewhere and at least they’re trying to do 
something - within the framework they have been given 

(yes it might be GiGo .. but at least they’re doing something .. and it might 
work if the planets align :)


> 
>> 
>> My personal goal is to have enough excuses to move to Brighton and ³semi
>> retire² there Š hell I¹m nearly 45 Š that¹s over 100 in IT years :) (but
>> I will still want decent connectivity when I retire :)
> 
> G.FAST our other ³so 90¹s" technology I¹m sure will help you Jon!

Lol … well atm I have 1 Gig to play with down there … but the option to 
increase to 10 Gig if demand permits.  

I can’t see myself filling 10 Gig, but I’m sure I can find something to utilise 
a 1 Gig circuit in my dotage :)


> 
> Neil.
> 

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Neil J. McRae]

On 25/03/2015 12:14, "Jon Morby (FidoNet)"  wrote:
>
>Someone described it to me along the lines of ³kids leave Uni/College in
>Brighton and have jobs to go to Š they can either bugger off back up
>north and sign on up there, or they can try to make a go of something in
>Brighton / Hove / Worthing / etc where they¹ve been living for the last
>3-4 years anyway and maybe get somewhere² Š the idea of the Digital
>Catapult and the BDX and Wired Sussex / et al is to try and see if we can
>help make that happen.

Which I think is a greal goal Jon, but I believe too many government
organisations are starting at the wrong place.

>
>My personal goal is to have enough excuses to move to Brighton and ³semi
>retire² there Š hell I¹m nearly 45 Š that¹s over 100 in IT years :) (but
>I will still want decent connectivity when I retire :)

G.FAST our other ³so 90¹s" technology I¹m sure will help you Jon!

Neil.

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Jon Morby (FidoNet)]

Initially you need to be present in either New England House (96 businesses 
currently are and they’re planning on building a second building next door to 
increase capacity), or at one of FastNet or FidoNet’s data centres, or 
connected to MetraNet’s wireless ring around Brighton or be in one of the 
buildings that are “adjacent” such as Vantage Point

There are musings about running fibre from the BDX to the business quarter .. 
but that depends on demand

Currently the council are busy trying to bring more tech businesses to the "New 
England quarter" … there are a lot of “fused” businesses (whatever the hell 
that means) in the local area already and more tech businesses appearing daily 
(something like 100 startups all operating out of Wired Sussex alone - on top 
of the businesses in the NEH complex already)

This is all fledgling stuff, but it seemed worthy so we jumped in on the ground 
floor … chances of profit are negligible at least in early days, but the BDX 
seems to have the right idea.

Someone described it to me along the lines of “kids leave Uni/College in 
Brighton and have jobs to go to … they can either bugger off back up north and 
sign on up there, or they can try to make a go of something in Brighton / Hove 
/ Worthing / etc where they’ve been living for the last 3-4 years anyway and 
maybe get somewhere” … the idea of the Digital Catapult and the BDX and Wired 
Sussex / et al is to try and see if we can help make that happen.

My personal goal is to have enough excuses to move to Brighton and “semi 
retire” there … hell I’m nearly 45 … that’s over 100 in IT years :) (but I will 
still want decent connectivity when I retire :)


Jon


> On 25 Mar 2015, at 11:55, Christian de Larrinaga  wrote:
> 
> Jon
> 
> Given that you say the connectivity locally is poor and presumably tied
> into the "circuit" model into an exchange fabric how do people reach the
> IX in order to join it usefully?
> 
> Christian
> 
> 
> Jon Morby (FidoNet) wrote:
>> The IX is secondary (and I don’t anticipate a fast start or a lot of 
>> traffic, especially not when comparing to other regional IXs).
>> 
>> The DX is the primary driver to help kickstart tech businesses and give them 
>> a central focal point for innovation / etc … this is one small part of a 
>> much larger initiative
>> 
>> The distinct lack of high speed internet has been a problem for a long time, 
>> the quality of life is there but the last mile is awful and not “fit for 
>> business” use
>> 
>> FTTC is starting to appear but too little too late … hopefully the BDX will 
>> act as catalyst, mixed in with other initiatives, to help tech companies 
>> start and to grow whist not being dependent on London for the basics.
>> 
>> I guess we’ll measure the success as to whether or not the BDX is still 
>> going in 3 years time as whilst it is a co-operative, it does have to be 
>> self funding so we need members to join either the IX or the DX or both
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> J
>> 
>> 
>>> On 24 Mar 2015, at 23:00, Neil J. McRae  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jon
>>> Can't help but think that an IX is going to offer very limited benefit in 
>>> turning Brighton into a digital centre. They would be far better investing 
>>> the money into tech literacy efforts. How are they measuring success? 
>>> 
>>> Regards, 
>>> Neil 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Christian de Larrinaga
> FBCS, CITP, MCMA
> -
> @ FirstHand
> -
> +44 7989 386778
> c...@firsthand.net
> -

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Neil J. McRae]

> On 25 Mar 2015, at 11:55, Christian de Larrinaga  wrote:
> 
> Jon
> 
> Given that you say the connectivity locally is poor and presumably tied
> into the "circuit" model into an exchange fabric how do people reach the
> IX in order to join it usefully?
> 

You order a fantastic Ethernet solution from BTWholesale of course! Luckily our 
"so 90s" solution  will get you there! 

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Christian de Larrinaga]

You wrote.
> I look forward to hearing and seeing your case for the alternative!
>
>

That is spot on what I was thinking! :-)


I agree with your other points. The challenge for data network users is
how to break out of the telco model which imposes a lot of cost on the
overall system but at the same time is the path of least resistance in
the market.

That there are tensions building up is undeniable. For instance I would
not be surprised if significant portions inside BT are as frustrated by
the BT Wholesale price list as many outside are.


Christian
Neil J. McRae wrote:
> 
>> On 25 Mar 2015, at 11:04, Christian de Larrinaga  wrote:
>>
>> Would it be a false observation of LINX, LoNAP, AMiX and others of how
>> they have encouraged infrastructure locally around them as well as
>> through them?
>>
> 
> yes. They exist because of the people and demand in those locations. had the 
> demand not existed then there would be no need.
> 
>> I can see a lot of benefit in having IX locally where I can run tails to
>> and select transit / peering from.
> 
> Assuming you get a good selection of its varied infrastructure I would agree, 
> will that happen in Brighton? Feels tough to me. And I don't see my neighbour 
> having the ability to pull their own fibre and connecting to an exchange 
> point - even if they had the inclination. 
> 
> If there was a deluge of skilled people you would see companies and 
> investment that would generate real demand as opposed to government funded 
> fake demand nonsense. (See India for a comparison). 
> 
>> Of course that might not fit the business model assumptions behind FTTc
>> or DOCSIS but those are so telco 1990s ;-)
> 
> I look forward to hearing and seeing your case for the alternative! 
> 
> 

-- 
Christian de Larrinaga
FBCS, CITP, MCMA
-
@ FirstHand
-
+44 7989 386778
c...@firsthand.net
-

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Neil J. McRae]

> On 25 Mar 2015, at 11:07, Will Hargrave  wrote:
> 
> Well, the government was happy to hand out blocks of £20k each to get 
> companies to peer at the LINX/BT IXP and datacentre in Cardiff - I guess the 
> metrics used for measuring the success of that project could be used here.

Yup, and they were nuts and I told them so Will precisely because they couldn't 
come up with a measure. If only every government scheme got the same level of 
scrutiny eh?!

Neil.

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Christian de Larrinaga]

Jon

Given that you say the connectivity locally is poor and presumably tied
into the "circuit" model into an exchange fabric how do people reach the
IX in order to join it usefully?

Christian


Jon Morby (FidoNet) wrote:
> The IX is secondary (and I don’t anticipate a fast start or a lot of traffic, 
> especially not when comparing to other regional IXs).
> 
> The DX is the primary driver to help kickstart tech businesses and give them 
> a central focal point for innovation / etc … this is one small part of a much 
> larger initiative
> 
> The distinct lack of high speed internet has been a problem for a long time, 
> the quality of life is there but the last mile is awful and not “fit for 
> business” use
> 
> FTTC is starting to appear but too little too late … hopefully the BDX will 
> act as catalyst, mixed in with other initiatives, to help tech companies 
> start and to grow whist not being dependent on London for the basics.
> 
> I guess we’ll measure the success as to whether or not the BDX is still going 
> in 3 years time as whilst it is a co-operative, it does have to be self 
> funding so we need members to join either the IX or the DX or both
> 
> 
> 
> J
> 
> 
>> On 24 Mar 2015, at 23:00, Neil J. McRae  wrote:
>>
>> Jon
>> Can't help but think that an IX is going to offer very limited benefit in 
>> turning Brighton into a digital centre. They would be far better investing 
>> the money into tech literacy efforts. How are they measuring success? 
>>
>> Regards, 
>> Neil 
> 
> 

-- 
Christian de Larrinaga
FBCS, CITP, MCMA
-
@ FirstHand
-
+44 7989 386778
c...@firsthand.net
-

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Neil J. McRae]

> On 25 Mar 2015, at 11:04, Christian de Larrinaga  wrote:
> 
> Would it be a false observation of LINX, LoNAP, AMiX and others of how
> they have encouraged infrastructure locally around them as well as
> through them?
> 

yes. They exist because of the people and demand in those locations. had the 
demand not existed then there would be no need.

> I can see a lot of benefit in having IX locally where I can run tails to
> and select transit / peering from.

Assuming you get a good selection of its varied infrastructure I would agree, 
will that happen in Brighton? Feels tough to me. And I don't see my neighbour 
having the ability to pull their own fibre and connecting to an exchange point 
- even if they had the inclination. 

If there was a deluge of skilled people you would see companies and investment 
that would generate real demand as opposed to government funded fake demand 
nonsense. (See India for a comparison). 

> Of course that might not fit the business model assumptions behind FTTc
> or DOCSIS but those are so telco 1990s ;-)

I look forward to hearing and seeing your case for the alternative! 

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Will Hargrave]

Well, the government was happy to hand out blocks of £20k each to get companies 
to peer at the LINX/BT IXP and datacentre in Cardiff - I guess the metrics used 
for measuring the success of that project could be used here.

Will


On 24 Mar 2015, at 23:00, Neil J. McRae  wrote:

> Jon
> Can't help but think that an IX is going to offer very limited benefit in 
> turning Brighton into a digital centre. They would be far better investing 
> the money into tech literacy efforts. How are they measuring success? 
> 
> Regards, 
> Neil 
> 
>> On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:20, Jon Morby (FidoNet)  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Roderick
>> 
>> I’m not sure about Bristol (although there is IX Cardiff)
>> 
>> The Brighton Digital Exchange (and IX Brighton) is on the South Coast 
>> 
>> AS 44488
>> 
>> There’s a small data centre and a carrier neutral exchange opening as part 
>> of the UK Government’s initiative to turn Brighton into a Digital Catapult 
>> city
>> 
>> References
>> 
>> http://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/
>> http://bdx.coop/
>> http://ixbrighton.com/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:04, Rod Beck  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bristol Digital exchange is a new peering point?
>>> 
>>> Roderick Beck
>>> Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
>>> Hibernia Networks
>>> http://www.hibernianetworks.com
>>> Budapest and New York
>>> 36-30-859-5144
>>> rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com
>>> This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the 
>>> addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. 
>>> If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby 
>>> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and 
>>> any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender 
>>> is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please 
>>> immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the 
>>> original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All 
>>> documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are 
>>> SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may 
>>> contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While 
>>> Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this 
>>> risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a 
>>> result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks 
>>> before opening any attachment.
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

-- 
Will Hargrave
+44 114 303 

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Christian de Larrinaga]

Would it be a false observation of LINX, LoNAP, AMiX and others of how
they have encouraged infrastructure locally around them as well as
through them?

I can see a lot of benefit in having IX locally where I can run tails to
and select transit / peering from.

Of course that might not fit the business model assumptions behind FTTc
or DOCSIS but those are so telco 1990s ;-)

Christian


Neil J. McRae wrote:
> Rod,
> I agree - but an IX isn't going to make that happen or even a datacentre - 
> Finding skilled people who are technically literate will have a greater 
> impact.
> 
> Neil.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 24 Mar 2015, at 23:11, Rod Beck  wrote:
>>
>> The most important is to get technology companies to locate there. Quality 
>> of life, last mile connectivity, affordable rents, quick access to London, 
>> and tax advantages. Technology companes congregate together like any tribe.
>>
>> Roderick Beck
>> Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
>> Hibernia Networks
>> http://www.hibernianetworks.com
>> Budapest and New York
>> 36-30-859-5144
>> rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com
>>
>> _
>> This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the 
>> addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. 
>> If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby 
>> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and 
>> any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender 
>> is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please 
>> immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the 
>> original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All 
>> documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are 
>> SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may 
>> contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While 
>> Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this 
>> risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result 
>> of software viruses. You should carry
 out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
> 

-- 
Christian de Larrinaga
FBCS, CITP, MCMA
-
@ FirstHand
-
+44 7989 386778
c...@firsthand.net
-

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Martin Hannigan]

> On Mar 25, 2015, at 06:39, Will Hargrave  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:39, Martin Hannigan  wrote:
> 
 Is this a mutually beneficial exchange e.g. non profit? The fee structure 
 appears 4x nearest IX. That might be a challenge.
>>> I’m pretty sure the first year (at least) will be free anyway and 
>>> subsequent years fees will be heavily guided by the membership
>> That has proven to be beneficial at least for year one. It's also proven to 
>> be beneficial to advertise what the year two prices may be targeted for, 
>> especially after community elections occur (which "should" be a priority). 
>>> The whole IX / BDX is a mutual / CoOp arrangement - yes
>> Awesome. My employer likes participating in these when conditions are right. 
>> /watchlist
> 
> Hi Marty,
> 
> On the one hand you ask if it is a not-for-profit/co-op, but on the other 
> hand you say it’s good if the ports are free.


Six? Mice? Would be nice. It's not always possible. 


> If it’s a co-op owned by its members, where does the money come from? Even 
> the very minor 500 or so it costs to file the accounts.
> 
> Aren’t you just wanting to both have your cake and eat it? :-)
> 


Of course. :-). Its a business.

Best,

Marty

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Neil J. McRae]

Rod,
I agree - but an IX isn't going to make that happen or even a datacentre - 
Finding skilled people who are technically literate will have a greater impact.

Neil.

Sent from my iPad

> On 24 Mar 2015, at 23:11, Rod Beck  wrote:
> 
> The most important is to get technology companies to locate there. Quality of 
> life, last mile connectivity, affordable rents, quick access to London, and 
> tax advantages. Technology companes congregate together like any tribe.
> 
> Roderick Beck
> Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
> Hibernia Networks
> http://www.hibernianetworks.com
> Budapest and New York
> 36-30-859-5144
> rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com
> 
> _
> This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the 
> addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. 
> If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified 
> that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any 
> attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is 
> strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately 
> telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and 
> any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts 
> or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. 
> The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses 
> that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken 
> every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability 
> for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should 
> carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Will Hargrave]

On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:39, Martin Hannigan  wrote:

>>> Is this a mutually beneficial exchange e.g. non profit? The fee structure 
>>> appears 4x nearest IX. That might be a challenge.
>> I’m pretty sure the first year (at least) will be free anyway and subsequent 
>> years fees will be heavily guided by the membership
> That has proven to be beneficial at least for year one. It's also proven to 
> be beneficial to advertise what the year two prices may be targeted for, 
> especially after community elections occur (which "should" be a priority). 
>> The whole IX / BDX is a mutual / CoOp arrangement - yes
> Awesome. My employer likes participating in these when conditions are right. 
> /watchlist

Hi Marty,

On the one hand you ask if it is a not-for-profit/co-op, but on the other hand 
you say it’s good if the ports are free.

If it’s a co-op owned by its members, where does the money come from? Even the 
very minor 500 or so it costs to file the accounts.

Aren’t you just wanting to both have your cake and eat it? :-)


-- 
Will Hargrave
+44 114 303 

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Martin Hannigan]

Seriously? If you aren't at risk of getting mugged in your data hood you're 
paying too much.  



> On Mar 24, 2015, at 19:11, Rod Beck  wrote:
> 
> The most important is to get technology companies to locate there. Quality of 
> life, last mile connectivity, affordable rents, quick access to London, and 
> tax advantages. Technology companes congregate together like any tribe.
> 
> Roderick Beck
> Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
> Hibernia Networks
> http://www.hibernianetworks.com
> Budapest and New York
> 36-30-859-5144
> rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com
> 
> _
> This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the 
> addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. 
> If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified 
> that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any 
> attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is 
> strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately 
> telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and 
> any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts 
> or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. 
> The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses 
> that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken 
> every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability 
> for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should 
> carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
> 

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Jon Morby (FidoNet)]

The IX is secondary (and I don’t anticipate a fast start or a lot of traffic, 
especially not when comparing to other regional IXs).

The DX is the primary driver to help kickstart tech businesses and give them a 
central focal point for innovation / etc … this is one small part of a much 
larger initiative

The distinct lack of high speed internet has been a problem for a long time, 
the quality of life is there but the last mile is awful and not “fit for 
business” use

FTTC is starting to appear but too little too late … hopefully the BDX will act 
as catalyst, mixed in with other initiatives, to help tech companies start and 
to grow whist not being dependent on London for the basics.

I guess we’ll measure the success as to whether or not the BDX is still going 
in 3 years time as whilst it is a co-operative, it does have to be self funding 
so we need members to join either the IX or the DX or both



J


> On 24 Mar 2015, at 23:00, Neil J. McRae  wrote:
> 
> Jon
> Can't help but think that an IX is going to offer very limited benefit in 
> turning Brighton into a digital centre. They would be far better investing 
> the money into tech literacy efforts. How are they measuring success? 
> 
> Regards, 
> Neil 

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Rod Beck]

The most important is to get technology companies to locate there. Quality of 
life, last mile connectivity, affordable rents, quick access to London, and tax 
advantages. Technology companes congregate together like any tribe.

Roderick Beck
Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
Hibernia Networks
http://www.hibernianetworks.com
Budapest and New York
36-30-859-5144
rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com

_
This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the 
addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If 
you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that 
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments 
thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone 
or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of 
this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements 
referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an 
attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your 
own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable 
precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage 
that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own 
virus checks before opening any attachment.

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Neil J. McRae]

Jon
Can't help but think that an IX is going to offer very limited benefit in 
turning Brighton into a digital centre. They would be far better investing the 
money into tech literacy efforts. How are they measuring success? 

Regards, 
Neil 

> On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:20, Jon Morby (FidoNet)  wrote:
> 
> Hi Roderick
> 
> I’m not sure about Bristol (although there is IX Cardiff)
> 
> The Brighton Digital Exchange (and IX Brighton) is on the South Coast 
> 
> AS 44488
> 
> There’s a small data centre and a carrier neutral exchange opening as part of 
> the UK Government’s initiative to turn Brighton into a Digital Catapult city
> 
> References
> 
> http://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/
> http://bdx.coop/
> http://ixbrighton.com/
> 
> 
> 
>> On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:04, Rod Beck  wrote:
>> 
>> Bristol Digital exchange is a new peering point?
>> 
>> Roderick Beck
>> Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
>> Hibernia Networks
>> http://www.hibernianetworks.com
>> Budapest and New York
>> 36-30-859-5144
>> rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com
>> This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the 
>> addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. 
>> If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby 
>> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and 
>> any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender 
>> is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please 
>> immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the 
>> original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All 
>> documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are 
>> SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may 
>> contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While 
>> Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this 
>> risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result 
>> of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before 
>> opening any attachment.
> 
> 

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Martin Hannigan]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Jon Morby (FidoNet)  wrote:

>
>
> On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:40, Rod Beck  wrote:
>
> Let me display my ignorance. When I left telecom in 2011, most regions
> outside of London metro were expensive except for a few beaten down routes
> like London - Manchester which are as low as 1.000 GDP per month at the 10
> GigE level.
>
>
> This hasn't changed a great deal - no
>
>
> Has that changed? What would a 10 GigE wave cost from Brigton to London?
>
>
> If you can find out please do let me know.  I might be interested :)
>
> Nearly everyone I've spoken to either doesn't have capacity, won't sell
> the fabric or wants to charge silly money ...
>
> The BDX is the first step towards making this more viable ... and we've
> managed to get some connectivity in for backhaul ... this is of course a
> regional IX rather than an extension of a London vPoP (at this stage at
> least)
>
> The site opens officially at the end of May
>


Great -- any idea of who will be connecting so we can do traffic estimates?

https://www.peeringdb.com/private/exchange_view.php?id=985

Thanks!

-M<








>
> Jon
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Morby
> FidoNet - the internet made simple!
> tel: 0345 004 3050 / fax: 0345 004 3051
> twitter: @fido / skype://jmorby
>
>

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Jon Morby (FidoNet)]

> On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:40, Rod Beck  wrote:
> 
> Let me display my ignorance. When I left telecom in 2011, most regions 
> outside of London metro were expensive except for a few beaten down routes 
> like London - Manchester which are as low as 1.000 GDP per month at the 10 
> GigE level.

This hasn’t changed a great deal - no

> 
> Has that changed? What would a 10 GigE wave cost from Brigton to London?

If you can find out please do let me know.  I might be interested :)

Nearly everyone I’ve spoken to either doesn’t have capacity, won’t sell the 
fabric or wants to charge silly money … 

The BDX is the first step towards making this more viable … and we’ve managed 
to get some connectivity in for backhaul … this is of course a regional IX 
rather than an extension of a London vPoP (at this stage at least)

The site opens officially at the end of May 

Jon



— 
Jon Morby
FidoNet - the internet made simple!
tel: 0345 004 3050 / fax: 0345 004 3051
twitter: @fido / skype://jmorby

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Joshua McQuistan]

Has the IXBrighton fees page just changed?

I swear 5 minutes ago it was showing 1, 10 and 100GE ports with pricing. 
I can't remember exactly it was around 10,500 /year.


On 24/03/15 21:40, Rod Beck wrote:

Let me display my ignorance. When I left telecom in 2011, most regions outside 
of London metro were expensive except for a few beaten down routes like London 
- Manchester which are as low as 1.000 GDP per month at the 10 GigE level.

Has that changed? What would a 10 GigE wave cost from Brigton to London?

Roderick Beck
Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
Hibernia Networks
http://www.hibernianetworks.com
Budapest and New York
36-30-859-5144
rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com
This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the 
addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If 
you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that 
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments 
thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone 
or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of 
this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements 
referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an 
attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your 
own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable 
precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage 
that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own 
virus checks before opening any attachment.

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Martin Hannigan]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Jon Morby (FidoNet)  wrote:

>
> On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:30, Martin Hannigan  wrote:
>
>
>
> Is this a mutually beneficial exchange e.g. non profit? The fee structure
> appears 4x nearest IX. That might be a challenge.
>
>
> The IX pricing isn't cast in stone yet 
>

Great.


> I'm pretty sure the first year (at least) will be free anyway and
> subsequent years fees will be heavily guided by the membership
>

That has proven to be beneficial at least for year one. It's also proven to
be beneficial to advertise what the year two prices may be targeted for,
especially after community elections occur (which "should" be a priority).

Trust is everything.



>
> The whole IX / BDX is a mutual / CoOp arrangement - yes
>
>
Awesome. My employer likes participating in these when conditions are
right. /watchlist

Best,

-M<






>
> Thanks,
>
> -M<
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Jon Morby (FidoNet)  wrote:
>
>> Hi Roderick
>>
>> I'm not sure about Bristol (although there is IX Cardiff)
>>
>> The Brighton Digital Exchange (and IX Brighton) is on the South Coast
>>
>> AS 44488
>>
>> There's a small data centre and a carrier neutral exchange opening as
>> part of the UK Government's initiative to turn Brighton into a Digital
>> Catapult city
>>
>> References
>>
>> http://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/
>> http://bdx.coop/
>> http://ixbrighton.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:04, Rod Beck 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Bristol Digital exchange is a new peering point?
>> >
>> > Roderick Beck
>> > Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
>> > Hibernia Networks
>> > http://www.hibernianetworks.com
>> > Budapest and New York
>> > 36-30-859-5144
>> > rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com
>> > This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the
>> addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged.
>> If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby
>> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and
>> any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender
>> is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please
>> immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the
>> original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All
>> documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are
>> SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may
>> contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While
>> Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this
>> risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a
>> result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks
>> before opening any attachment.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Rod Beck]

Let me display my ignorance. When I left telecom in 2011, most regions outside 
of London metro were expensive except for a few beaten down routes like London 
- Manchester which are as low as 1.000 GDP per month at the 10 GigE level.

Has that changed? What would a 10 GigE wave cost from Brigton to London?

Roderick Beck
Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
Hibernia Networks
http://www.hibernianetworks.com
Budapest and New York
36-30-859-5144
rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com
This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the 
addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If 
you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that 
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments 
thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone 
or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of 
this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements 
referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an 
attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your 
own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable 
precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage 
that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own 
virus checks before opening any attachment.

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Jon Morby (FidoNet)]

> On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:30, Martin Hannigan  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a mutually beneficial exchange e.g. non profit? The fee structure 
> appears 4x nearest IX. That might be a challenge.

The IX pricing isn’t cast in stone yet …. 

I’m pretty sure the first year (at least) will be free anyway and subsequent 
years fees will be heavily guided by the membership

The whole IX / BDX is a mutual / CoOp arrangement - yes

> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -M<
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Jon Morby (FidoNet)  > wrote:
> Hi Roderick
> 
> I’m not sure about Bristol (although there is IX Cardiff)
> 
> The Brighton Digital Exchange (and IX Brighton) is on the South Coast
> 
> AS 44488
> 
> There’s a small data centre and a carrier neutral exchange opening as part of 
> the UK Government’s initiative to turn Brighton into a Digital Catapult city
> 
> References
> 
> http://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/ 
> 
> http://bdx.coop/ 
> http://ixbrighton.com/ 
> 
> 
> 
> > On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:04, Rod Beck  > > wrote:
> >
> > Bristol Digital exchange is a new peering point?
> >
> > Roderick Beck
> > Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
> > Hibernia Networks
> > http://www.hibernianetworks.com 
> > Budapest and New York
> > 36-30-859-5144
> > rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com 
> > This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the 
> > addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. 
> > If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby 
> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and 
> > any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender 
> > is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please 
> > immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the 
> > original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All 
> > documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are 
> > SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may 
> > contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While 
> > Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this 
> > risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a 
> > result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks 
> > before opening any attachment.
> 
> 
> 

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Martin Hannigan]

Is this a mutually beneficial exchange e.g. non profit? The fee structure
appears 4x nearest IX. That might be a challenge.

Thanks,

-M<




On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Jon Morby (FidoNet)  wrote:

> Hi Roderick
>
> I'm not sure about Bristol (although there is IX Cardiff)
>
> The Brighton Digital Exchange (and IX Brighton) is on the South Coast
>
> AS 44488
>
> There's a small data centre and a carrier neutral exchange opening as part
> of the UK Government's initiative to turn Brighton into a Digital Catapult
> city
>
> References
>
> http://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/
> http://bdx.coop/
> http://ixbrighton.com/
>
>
>
> > On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:04, Rod Beck 
> wrote:
> >
> > Bristol Digital exchange is a new peering point?
> >
> > Roderick Beck
> > Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
> > Hibernia Networks
> > http://www.hibernianetworks.com
> > Budapest and New York
> > 36-30-859-5144
> > rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com
> > This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the
> addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged.
> If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and
> any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender
> is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please
> immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the
> original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All
> documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are
> SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may
> contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While
> Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this
> risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a
> result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks
> before opening any attachment.
>
>
>

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Jon Morby (FidoNet)]

Hi Roderick

I’m not sure about Bristol (although there is IX Cardiff)

The Brighton Digital Exchange (and IX Brighton) is on the South Coast 

AS 44488

There’s a small data centre and a carrier neutral exchange opening as part of 
the UK Government’s initiative to turn Brighton into a Digital Catapult city

References

http://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/
http://bdx.coop/
http://ixbrighton.com/



> On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:04, Rod Beck  wrote:
> 
> Bristol Digital exchange is a new peering point?
> 
> Roderick Beck
> Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
> Hibernia Networks
> http://www.hibernianetworks.com
> Budapest and New York
> 36-30-859-5144
> rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com
> This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the 
> addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. 
> If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified 
> that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any 
> attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is 
> strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately 
> telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and 
> any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts 
> or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. 
> The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses 
> that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken 
> every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability 
> for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should 
> carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Rod Beck]

Bristol Digital exchange is a new peering point?


Roderick Beck
Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
Hibernia Networks
http://www.hibernianetworks.com
Budapest and New York
36-30-859-5144
rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com

This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the 
addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If 
you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that 
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments 
thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone 
or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of 
this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements 
referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an 
attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your 
own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable 
precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage 
that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own 
virus checks before opening any attachment.

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Jon Morby (Fido)]

> On 24 Mar 2015, at 07:48, Paul Mansfield  wrote:
> 
> 
> I've been very happy with fidonet, and you'll find Jon Morby is active on 
> this list. Customer service is very responsive any time day or night.
> 
> I can usually max out my fttc line (36/5 M) any time day and night, so 
> there's no slowdowns during peak times.
> As a result get excellent Netflix or iPlayer, virtually never see buffering 
> or H.A.S. reduce the quality
> 
> Native ipv6, static v4, uncapped, unfiltered, unshaped.
> 
> Price isn't too bad for 200 GB a month.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Paul!

Have been watching this thread but trying to avoid blowing my own trumpet :)

I'm not as active on the list as I used to be but still lurking ... Currently 
busy trying to get the new Brighton Digital Exchange off the ground (shameless 
plug :)

Jon

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Paul Mansfield]

I've been very happy with fidonet, and you'll find Jon Morby is active on
this list. Customer service is very responsive any time day or night.

I can usually max out my fttc line (36/5 M) any time day and night, so
there's no slowdowns during peak times.
As a result get excellent Netflix or iPlayer, virtually never see buffering
or H.A.S. reduce the quality

Native ipv6, static v4, uncapped, unfiltered, unshaped.

Price isn't too bad for 200 GB a month.

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Alex Brooks]

Hi there,


On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Rich Lewis  wrote:

> I guess a brief list of requirements are:
>
> FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in the
> street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the premises)
> Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest
> Not behind a CGN
>

Whilst I am not recommending their services (their quality varies a
lot based on your location; they're good where I am but I know nothing
of where you are) Virgin Media are planning to roll out IPv6 over
DOCIS3 this year - the equipment in their headends and the CPE they
give out already support IPv6, but it is disabled in the firmware at
present except for testing lines.  There is a UKNOF presentation they
gave with the details, but I can't find the link at present.  They do
traffic management on residential packages though
(http://my.virginmedia.com/traffic-management/traffic-management-policy-30Mb-or-higher.html).
A number of people round my way use them for home working with
success.

Virgin are likely to be one of the cheaper options with their current
offers if you are particularly price sensitive - IIRC their top end
business version is around £60 a month and their residential versions
much cheaper.

Be aware that although a number of suppliers sublease TTB connectivity
to you with IPv6, if you go to TTB directly you will not (currently)
get an IPv6 address or transit on their base FTTC products, nor do
they have any public plans to roll out IPv6 anytime soon.

Alex

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Martin A. Brooks]

Hi

> From: "Joseph Waite" 
> To: "Martin A. Brooks" 
> Cc: "Rich Lewis" , uknof@lists.uknof.org.uk
> Sent: Monday, 23 March, 2015 8:12:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
> 
> Just out of interest would I be right in guessing that your regret in
> moving to A&A is purely the monthly cost increase?

Not just that, a more complete list of nitpicks is:

* I find their separate billing and service portals irritating, hard to 
navigate and a bit web 1.0.
* I can migrate my phoneline to them to get all the billing in one place, but I 
can't have a regular billed voice line if I do.  I'd need to get myself a VOIP 
setup.
* There's the monthly cost increase, and the stingy data cap.

Regards


-- 
Martin A. Brooks
http://antibodyMX.net/ - antispam & antivirus email filtering.

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Rich Lewis]

>
> Put bluntly, your 95th percentile bandwidth usage needs to be low. Anything
> over 1Mbps 95th percentile means you're costing us more than we charge... We
> could charge more, but then we just get told that we're uncompetitive
> compared to BT/Sky/Virgin who offer unlimited usage for pennies.
>
> As long as it's 'legal', we don't really mind what the content is. Cause us
> to get several copyright infringement notices, and we'll get annoyed.
>

Understood. And bluntness I like - no point dancing around what really
matters. :-)

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Mar 23, 2015 at 08:31:23PM +, Rich Lewis wrote:
> > As long as you're not taking the p*ss, we're reasonably tolerant.
> 
> Define taking the p*ss. ;-) Would P2P and Usenet qualify? Or is it
> just volumes/peak rates that you're concerned with rather than what
> the traffic is or where it's going?

Put bluntly, your 95th percentile bandwidth usage needs to be low. Anything 
over 1Mbps 95th percentile means you're costing us more than we charge... We
could charge more, but then we just get told that we're uncompetitive 
compared to BT/Sky/Virgin who offer unlimited usage for pennies.

As long as it's 'legal', we don't really mind what the content is. Cause us
to get several copyright infringement notices, and we'll get annoyed.

Simon
-- 
Simon Lockhart |   * Server Co-location * ADSL * Domain Registration *
   Director|  * Domain & Web Hosting * Connectivity * Consultancy * 
  Bogons Ltd   | *  http://www.bogons.net/  *  Email: i...@bogons.net  * 

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Mar 23, 2015 at 08:23:30PM +, Gavin Henry wrote:
> Although looking at TTB EoFTTC products too.

We've used this a couple of times. It serves a niche well, but that niche 
isn't home broadband.

> We go through an aggregator for this. On BT WBC do you get charged
> 95th for traffic from the CPE to your NNI or do you pay for a big
> pipe? Using our BTW account I've downloaded their WBC and WBMC price
> lists and I've never seen anything like it! The xls is mental. Nothing
> like the SIP one.

Pass - we use an aggregator too :)

Simon
-- 
Simon Lockhart |   * Server Co-location * ADSL * Domain Registration *
   Director|  * Domain & Web Hosting * Connectivity * Consultancy * 
  Bogons Ltd   | *  http://www.bogons.net/  *  Email: i...@bogons.net  * 

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Rich Lewis]

>
> As long as you're not taking the p*ss, we're reasonably tolerant.
>

Define taking the p*ss. ;-) Would P2P and Usenet qualify? Or is it
just volumes/peak rates that you're concerned with rather than what
the traffic is or where it's going?

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Gavin Henry]

On 23 March 2015 at 20:25, Rod Beck  wrote:
> Watch the feeding frenzy and I thought 10 gig waves were competitive.  I will 
> stick to my niche. :)

My email wasn't an offer, just a question :-)

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Rod Beck]

Watch the feeding frenzy and I thought 10 gig waves were competitive.  I will 
stick to my niche. :)

Roderick Beck
Sales Director/Europe and the Americas
Hibernia Networks
http://www.hibernianetworks.com
Budapest and New York
36-30-859-5144
rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com

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Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Gavin Henry]

> Bogons can do all of the above :)
>
> The problem with FTTC from a small provider (like us) is that the per-Mbps
> we get charged by the wholesalers means we can't offer unlimited usage like
> the big players can (who depend on 75% of their users barely using it at all).
>
> As long as you're not taking the p*ss, we're reasonably tolerant.

We're the same. We use TTB LLU's for unlimited products (fixed cost
across the TTB network from the CPE to our NNI's) and BTW for the FTTC
stuff (but only for busienss traffic). Although looking at TTB EoFTTC
products too.

We go through an aggregator for this. On BT WBC do you get charged
95th for traffic from the CPE to your NNI or do you pay for a big
pipe? Using our BTW account I've downloaded their WBC and WBMC price
lists and I've never seen anything like it! The xls is mental. Nothing
like the SIP one.

-- 
Kind Regards,
Gavin Henry.

http://www.surevoip.co.uk

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[David Freedman]

>My employer currently provides mybroadband at home (it's a BT Business
>FTTC service), but in their infinite wisdom they've >decided to cut that
>particular benefit! (So no more emergency changes in the middle of the
>night from home says I!)

I seem to hear more and more of this (employers removing broadband
benefits) because of a lack of understanding of the tax position*

>* FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in the
>street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, >to the premises)
>* Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest
>* Not behind a CGN



As with the others chirping in, aside from the IPv6, the provision of FTTC
'or equivalent speeds' and lack of CGN is pretty common.

With regards to my employer, we offer all of the above.

Dave. 

* See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM01475.htm

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Rich Lewis]

On 23 March 2015 at 20:10, Brandon Butterworth  wrote:

>
> Hopefully they'll let you migrate it and save an install fee
>

Good point, better find that out!

>
> As with all the non big 5, who charge crazy low prices and then make
> the service suck to compensate, we are at the mercy of BT Wholesale
> pricing so can't compete on price
>

The big 5 being BT, Virgin, Sky, TalkTalk and one more?

>
> > I guess a brief list of requirements are:
> >
> >- FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in
> >the street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the premises)
> >- Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest
> >- Not behind a CGN
>
> All those are a given, who'd use anything else?

I'd guess at least 90% of the population! :-) (With the exception
maybe of FTTC.)

>
> regards
> brandon

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Mar 23, 2015 at 01:39:29PM +, Rich Lewis wrote:
> I guess a brief list of requirements are:
> 
>- FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in
>the street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the premises)
>- Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest
>- Not behind a CGN

Bogons can do all of the above :)

The problem with FTTC from a small provider (like us) is that the per-Mbps
we get charged by the wholesalers means we can't offer unlimited usage like
the big players can (who depend on 75% of their users barely using it at all).

As long as you're not taking the p*ss, we're reasonably tolerant.

Simon
-- 
Simon Lockhart |   * Server Co-location * ADSL * Domain Registration *
   Director|  * Domain & Web Hosting * Connectivity * Consultancy * 
  Bogons Ltd   | *  http://www.bogons.net/  *  Email: i...@bogons.net  * 

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Joseph Waite]

Hi

> On 23 Mar 2015, at 20:05, Martin A. Brooks  wrote:
> 
> Hello 
> 
> 
>> From: "Rich Lewis" 
>> To: uknof@lists.uknof.org.uk
>> Sent: Monday, 23 March, 2015 1:39:29 PM
>> Subject: [uknof] The operator's operator
>> 
>> I guess a brief list of requirements are:
>> 
>> * FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in
>> the street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the
>> premises)
>> * Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest
>> * Not behind a CGN
> 
> 
> If you didn't need IPv6 then I would say "Zen" without any qualms.
> 
> Alas Zen's IPv6 deployment has been woeful, and there's no upcoming service 
> in sight.  I very very regretfully voted with my feet to A&A who have had 
> native IPv6 for a long time.
> 
> If and when Zen get native IPv6, it's very likely I would go back.
> 
> Regards
> 
> -- 
> 
> -- 
> Martin A. Brooks
> http://antibodyMX.net/ - antispam & antivirus email filtering.
> 
Just out of interest would I be right in guessing that your regret in moving to 
A&A is purely the monthly cost increase?

Regards

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Brandon Butterworth]

> My employer currently provides mybroadband at home (it's a BT Business FTTC
> service), but in their infinite wisdom they've decided to cut that
> particular benefit! (So no more emergency changes in the middle of the
> night from home says I!)

Hopefully they'll let you migrate it and save an install fee
 
> So, after about ten years of getting broadband gratis, I'm faced with going
> to the market to buy my own. There's a lot out there these days, so I
> thought I'd ask on here for any recommendations for a domestic broadband
> provider. In effect, who is the operator's operator?! ;-)

We do a fair bit of this for people want non mainstream non sucky internet

As with all the non big 5, who charge crazy low prices and then make
the service suck to compensate, we are at the mercy of BT Wholesale
pricing so can't compete on price

Others doing similar include A&A and Zen who are both popular for
this sort of thing

> I guess a brief list of requirements are:
> 
>- FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in
>the street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the premises)
>- Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest
>- Not behind a CGN

All those are a given, who'd use anything else?

regards
brandon

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Martin A. Brooks]

Hello 


> From: "Rich Lewis" 
> To: uknof@lists.uknof.org.uk
> Sent: Monday, 23 March, 2015 1:39:29 PM
> Subject: [uknof] The operator's operator
>
> I guess a brief list of requirements are:
>
> * FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in
> the street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the
> premises)
> * Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest
> * Not behind a CGN


If you didn't need IPv6 then I would say "Zen" without any qualms.

Alas Zen's IPv6 deployment has been woeful, and there's no upcoming service in 
sight.  I very very regretfully voted with my feet to A&A who have had native 
IPv6 for a long time.

If and when Zen get native IPv6, it's very likely I would go back.

Regards

-- 

-- 
Martin A. Brooks
http://antibodyMX.net/ - antispam & antivirus email filtering.

[uknof] The operator's operator

[Rich Lewis]

Hi everyone

Firstly, hope this isn't too trivial!

My employer currently provides mybroadband at home (it's a BT Business FTTC
service), but in their infinite wisdom they've decided to cut that
particular benefit! (So no more emergency changes in the middle of the
night from home says I!)

So, after about ten years of getting broadband gratis, I'm faced with going
to the market to buy my own. There's a lot out there these days, so I
thought I'd ask on here for any recommendations for a domestic broadband
provider. In effect, who is the operator's operator?! ;-)

I guess a brief list of requirements are:

   - FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in
   the street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the premises)
   - Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest
   - Not behind a CGN

Thanks!

Rich.