Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 06/10/2014 01:43 PM, alister wrote: > On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:27:26 -0700, wxjmfauth wrote: >> BTW, very easy to explain. Yeah he keeps saying that, but he never does explain--just flails around and mumbles "unicode.org." Guess everyone has to have his or her windmill to tilt at. -- https://

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

alister writes: > On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:29:06 +1000, Tim Delaney wrote: > > By his own admission, jmf doesn't use Python anymore. His only > > reason to remain on this emailing/newsgroup is to troll about the > > FSR. Please don't reply to him (and preferably add him to your > > killfile). > > I

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:29:06 +1000, Tim Delaney wrote: > On 11 June 2014 05:43, alister wrote: > > >> Your error reports always seem to resolve around benchmarks despite >> speed not being one of Pythons prime objectives >> >> > By his own admission, jmf doesn't use Python anymore. His only rea

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 11/06/2014 00:29, Devin Jeanpierre wrote: Please don't be unnecessarily cruel and antagonistic. -- Devin I am simply giving our resident unicode expert a taste of his own medicine. If you don't like that complain to the PSF about the root cause of the problem, not the symptoms. -- My f

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 06/10/2014 04:29 PM, Devin Jeanpierre wrote: Please don't be unnecessarily cruel and antagonistic. I completely agree. jmf should leave us alone and stop cruelly and antagonizingly baiting us with stupidity and falsehoods. -- ~Ethan~ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-lis

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:43:13 +, alister wrote: > On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:27:26 -0700, wxjmfauth wrote: Please don't feed the troll. I don't know whether JMF is trolling or if he is a crank who doesn't understand what he is doing, but either way he's been trying to square this circle for the

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

Please don't be unnecessarily cruel and antagonistic. -- Devin On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 10/06/2014 20:43, alister wrote: >> >> On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:27:26 -0700, wxjmfauth wrote: >> > > [snip the garbage] > > >>> >>> jmf >> >> >> Your error reports always seem

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 10/06/2014 20:43, alister wrote: On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:27:26 -0700, wxjmfauth wrote: [snip the garbage] jmf Your error reports always seem to resolve around benchmarks despite speed not being one of Pythons prime objectives Computers store data using bytes ASCII Characters can be use

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 11 June 2014 05:43, alister wrote: > > Your error reports always seem to resolve around benchmarks despite speed > not being one of Pythons prime objectives > By his own admission, jmf doesn't use Python anymore. His only reason to remain on this emailing/newsgroup is to troll about the FSR.

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:27:26 -0700, wxjmfauth wrote: > Le samedi 7 juin 2014 04:20:22 UTC+2, Tim Chase a écrit : >> On 2014-06-06 09:59, Travis Griggs wrote: >> >> > On Jun 4, 2014, at 4:01 AM, Tim Chase wrote: >> >> > > If you use UTF-8 for everything >> >> >> > >> > It seems to me, that inc

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 2014-06-06 09:59, Travis Griggs wrote: > On Jun 4, 2014, at 4:01 AM, Tim Chase wrote: > > If you use UTF-8 for everything > > It seems to me, that increasingly other libraries (C, etc), use > utf8 as the preferred string interchange format. I definitely advocate UTF-8 for any streaming scenari

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

In article , Travis Griggs wrote: > On Jun 4, 2014, at 4:01 AM, Tim Chase wrote: > > > If you use UTF-8 for everything > > It seems to me, that increasingly other libraries (C, etc), use utf8 as the > preferred string interchange format. It¹s universal, not prone to endian > issues, etc. O

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Jun 4, 2014, at 4:01 AM, Tim Chase wrote: > If you use UTF-8 for everything It seems to me, that increasingly other libraries (C, etc), use utf8 as the preferred string interchange format. It’s universal, not prone to endian issues, etc. So one *advantage* you gain for using utf8 internall

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

Chris Angelico writes: > I don't have an actual use-case for this, as I don't target > microcontrollers, but I'm curious: What parts of Py3 syntax aren't > supported? I meant to say % formatting for strings but that's apparently been added recently. My previous micropython build was from Februa

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:59 PM, Roy Smith wrote: > It turns out, we could have upgraded to a newer version of MySQL, which > did handle astral characters correctly. But, what we did was discarded > the records containing non-BMP data. Of course, that's a decision that > can only be made when yo

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

In article , Rustom Mody wrote: > On Thursday, June 5, 2014 12:12:06 AM UTC+5:30, Roy Smith wrote: > > Yup. I wrote a while(*) back about the pain I was having importing some > > data into a MySQL(**) database > Here's my interpretation of that situation; I'd like to hear yours: > > Basic pr

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Thursday, June 5, 2014 12:12:06 AM UTC+5:30, Roy Smith wrote: > Chris Angelico wrote: > > You can't ignore those. You might be able to say "Well, my program > > will run slower if you throw these at it", but if you're going down > > that route, you probably want the full FSR and the advantage

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

In article , Chris Angelico wrote: > You can't ignore those. You might be able to say "Well, my program > will run slower if you throw these at it", but if you're going down > that route, you probably want the full FSR and the advantages it > confers on ASCII and Latin-1 strings. Binding your pr

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

Tim Chase writes: > As mentioned elsewhere, I've got a LOT of code that expects that > string indexing is O(1) and rarely are those strings/offsets reused > I'm streaming through customer/provider data files, so caching > wouldn't do much good other than waste space and the time to maintain > them

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 12:53:19 +0100, Robin Becker wrote: > I believe that we should distinguish between glyph/character indexing > and string indexing. Even in unicode it may be hard to decide where a > visual glyph starts and ends. I assume most people would like to assign > one glyph to one unico

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 04/06/2014 13:17, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: . Note, for example, that Google manages to sort out issues like these. It sees past diacritics and even case ending. . I guess they must normalize all inputs to some standard form and then search / eigenvectorize on those. There are quite

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 2014-06-04 14:57, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > > If you use UTF-8 for everything, then you end up in a world where > > string-indexing (see ChrisA's other side thread on this topic) is > > no longer an O(1) operation, but an O(N) operation. > > Most string operations are O(N) anyway. Besides, you

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 2014-06-04 12:53, Robin Becker wrote: > > If you use UTF-8 for everything, then you end up in a world where > > string-indexing (see ChrisA's other side thread on this topic) is > > no longer an O(1) operation, but an O(N) operation. Some of us > > slice strings for a living. ;-) > > I

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

Robin Becker : u'\xc5ngstr\xf6m'==u'\xc5ngstro\u0308m' > False Now *that* would be a valid reason for our resident Unicode expert to complain! Py3 in no way solves text representation issues definitively. > I know this is artificial Not at all. It probably is out of scope for Python, but i

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

Tim Chase : > On 2014-06-04 00:58, Paul Rubin wrote: >> I've never understood why not use UTF-8 for everything. > > If you use UTF-8 for everything, then you end up in a world where > string-indexing (see ChrisA's other side thread on this topic) is no > longer an O(1) operation, but an O(N) opera

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 04/06/2014 12:01, Tim Chase wrote: On 2014-06-04 00:58, Paul Rubin wrote: Steven D'Aprano writes: Maybe there's a use-case for a microcontroller that works in ISO-8859-5 natively, thus using only eight bits per character, That won't even make the Russians happy, since in Russia there are m

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 2014-06-04 00:58, Paul Rubin wrote: > Steven D'Aprano writes: > >> Maybe there's a use-case for a microcontroller that works in > >> ISO-8859-5 natively, thus using only eight bits per character, > > That won't even make the Russians happy, since in Russia there > > are multiple incompatible l

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 04/06/2014 08:58, Paul Rubin wrote: Steven D'Aprano writes: Maybe there's a use-case for a microcontroller that works in ISO-8859-5 natively, thus using only eight bits per character, That won't even make the Russians happy, since in Russia there are multiple incompatible legacy encodings.

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 04.06.2014 09:16, Chris Angelico wrote: The point is not that you might be able to get away with sticking your head in the sand and wishing Unicode would just go away. Even if you can, it's not something Python 3 can ever do. Exactly. These endless discussions about different encodings star

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

Steven D'Aprano writes: >> Maybe there's a use-case for a microcontroller that works in ISO-8859-5 >> natively, thus using only eight bits per character, > That won't even make the Russians happy, since in Russia there are > multiple incompatible legacy encodings. I've never understood why not

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 17:16:13 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Rustom Mody > wrote: >> On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 9:22:54 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote: >>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: >>> > And so a pure BMP-supporting implementation may be

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 10:40 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: >>> 1) Most or all Chinese and Japanese characters >> >> Dont know how you count 'most' >> >> | One possible rationale is the desire to limit the size of the full >> | Unicode character set, whe

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 9:22:54 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: >> > And so a pure BMP-supporting implementation may be a reasonable >> > compromise. [As long as no surrogate-pairs are

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 6/4/2014 1:55 AM, Ian Kelly wrote: >> >> >> On Jun 3, 2014 11:27 PM, "Steven D'Aprano" > > wrote: >> > For technical reasons which I don't fully understand, Unicode only >> > uses 21 of those 32 bits, giving a to

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On 6/4/2014 1:55 AM, Ian Kelly wrote: On Jun 3, 2014 11:27 PM, "Steven D'Aprano" mailto:st...@pearwood.info>> wrote: > For technical reasons which I don't fully understand, Unicode only > uses 21 of those 32 bits, giving a total of 1114112 available code > points. I think mainly it's to acco

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Jun 3, 2014 11:27 PM, "Steven D'Aprano" wrote: > For technical reasons which I don't fully understand, Unicode only > uses 21 of those 32 bits, giving a total of 1114112 available code > points. I think mainly it's to accommodate UTF-16. The surrogate pair scheme is sufficient to encode up to

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:50:21 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 20:37:27 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote: > > And so a pure BMP-supporting implementation may be a reasonable > > compromise. [As long as no surrogate-pairs are there] > At the cost on one extra bit, strings cou

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 20:37:27 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 3:11:12 AM UTC+5:30, Paul Sokolovsky wrote: > >> With that in mind, I, as many others, think that forcing Unicode bloat >> upon people by default is the most controversial feature of Python3. >> The reason is that

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 10:40 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: >> 1) Most or all Chinese and Japanese characters > > Dont know how you count 'most' > > | One possible rationale is the desire to limit the size of the full > | Unicode character set, where CJK characters as represented by discrete > | ideograms

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 9:22:54 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: > > And so a pure BMP-supporting implementation may be a reasonable > > compromise. [As long as no surrogate-pairs are there] > Not if you're working on the internet. There ar

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: > 2. My casual/cursory reading of the contents of the SMP-planes > suggests that the stuff there is are things like > - egyptian hieroplyphics > - mahjong characters > - ancient greek musical symbols > - alchemical symbols etc etc. > > IOW from po

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 3:11:12 AM UTC+5:30, Paul Sokolovsky wrote: > With that in mind, I, as many others, think that forcing Unicode bloat > upon people by default is the most controversial feature of Python3. > The reason is that you go very long way dealing with languages of the > people of

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Paul Sokolovsky wrote: > Hello, > > On Wed, 4 Jun 2014 03:08:57 +1000 > Chris Angelico wrote: > > [] > >> With that encouragement, I just cloned your repo and built it on amd64 >> Debian Wheezy. Works just fine! Except... I've just found one fairly >> major problem

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

Hello, On Wed, 4 Jun 2014 03:08:57 +1000 Chris Angelico wrote: [] > With that encouragement, I just cloned your repo and built it on amd64 > Debian Wheezy. Works just fine! Except... I've just found one fairly > major problem with your support of Python 3.x syntax. Your str type is > documented

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Paul Sokolovsky wrote: > As can be seen from the dump above, MicroPython perfectly works on a > Linux system, so we encourage any pythonista to touch a little bit of > Python magic and give it a try! ;-) And we of course interested to get > feedback how portable it

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

Hello, On Tue, 3 Jun 2014 23:11:46 +1000 Chris Angelico wrote: > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Damien George > wrote: > > - Supports almost full Python 3 syntax, including yield (compiles > > 99.99% of the Python 3 standard library). > > - It supports a growing subset of Python 3 types and o

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 13:27:11 +0100, Damien George wrote: > Hi, > > We would like to announce Micro Python, an implementation of Python 3 > optimised to have a low memory footprint. Fantastic! -- Steven D'Aprano http://import-that.dreamwidth.org/ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/

Re: Micro Python -- a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3

On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Damien George wrote: > - Supports almost full Python 3 syntax, including yield (compiles > 99.99% of the Python 3 standard library). > - It supports a growing subset of Python 3 types and operations. > - Part of the Python 3 standard library has already been ported