Re: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

please ignore me if the point has already been made,
but they did register their email addresses before posting, right?
one can't simply post to 4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
without first joining the list.

2018/07/17 10:34、Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
“Never able to post” means no post was ever visible on the NUG….



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Re: Who’s the Gestapo?

[John Baughman via 4D_Tech]

Looking back at your post am I correct that the post that did not make it was 
Hello World? If so I am not surprised at all. Perhaps they have an automated 
filter and Hello World is flagged. 

Why not try sending something useful like introducing one’s self as a list 
newbie.

If that still doesn’t make it I would call my sales rep.

John Baughman
Kailua, Hawaii
john...@hawaii.rr.com

> On Jul 16, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Julio, same here, the very first I’m hearing of it too!  If you look at my 
> original post, I simply say that “I take it [based on the circumstances] that 
> the list is… censored” this was a surprise to me too. Yes, perhaps I used a 
> few words that were too strong but sometimes that’s helpful to draw attention 
> to something. Sorry, I’m not one to walk on egg shells. Also, I inquired, in 
> that same message, who’s in charge so that issues like this can be directed 
> to that person that I called the “gatekeeper”. This was not a complaint, this 
> was an observation.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Robert
> 
>> On Jul 16, 2018, at 4:08 AM, Julio Carneiro via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> And, as others have said here, this is the first time I see complains on 
>> censorship on this NUG.
> 
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Re: How to protect JS Source Code?

[Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech]

This is a huge benefit for 4D—isn’t it nearly impossible to reverse-engineer a 
compiled 4D structure?  I’m not a hacker but that’s been my assumption all 
these years. It’s boiled down to machine code and nearly impossible to figure 
out the source from the compiled app—yes?

Thanks,

Robert

> On Jul 13, 2018, at 11:49 PM, Christopher Wyatt PhD via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Obfuscation is the only reliable option with JavaScript. There are tools
> that “encrypt” the text but they have significant overhead.

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Re: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech]

Hi Julio, same here, the very first I’m hearing of it too!  If you look at my 
original post, I simply say that “I take it [based on the circumstances] that 
the list is… censored” this was a surprise to me too. Yes, perhaps I used a few 
words that were too strong but sometimes that’s helpful to draw attention to 
something. Sorry, I’m not one to walk on egg shells. Also, I inquired, in that 
same message, who’s in charge so that issues like this can be directed to that 
person that I called the “gatekeeper”. This was not a complaint, this was an 
observation.

Thanks,

Robert

> On Jul 16, 2018, at 4:08 AM, Julio Carneiro via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> And, as others have said here, this is the first time I see complains on 
> censorship on this NUG.

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Re: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech]

Okay… let’s all take a deep breath. WOW! “Never able to post” means no post was 
ever visible on the NUG…. Yes, they tried more than once. No one from 4D 
declared anything, nor was that expected—those that censor typically do not 
inform those being restricted. Yes, assistance was requested. Yes, from all of 
the evidence present there appears to be only one conclusion. So, how do you 
get help on the list when communication has seemingly been disallowed?  

> On Jul 15, 2018, at 11:09 PM, JOHN BAUGHMAN via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> “They were never able to post”... what does that even mean? Taken literally l 
> am assuming that they sent a message to the list and never saw their post on 
> the list. Did they try more than once. Did someone from 4D tell them they had 
> been censored? Did they ask for assistance? Based on your message I don’t 
> think any of this occurred. 
> 
> Someone tried to post and failed. Then they, including you, took one huge 
> leap to censorship. 
> 
> Instead of posting an unsubstantiated assumption why not help them get on the 
> list.
> 
> Unless you personally observed what you are assuming happened, it is very 
> possible they told you they tried but in fact did not. 
> 
> John Baughman
> Kailua, Hawaii
> john...@hawaii.rr.com 
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v17 ready for prime time?

[steve simpson via 4D_Tech]

I see that a lot of you are using v17, doing active development with it,
testing it out with current projects, etc. I don't normally move production
projects into a new version until the xx.2 or xx.3 iterations, but am
wondering if some of you who are actually using v17 in production could
chime in with your opinion as to whether it is safe to move straight from
v15.5 to v17 now, or best to move first to v16 and wait for a couple more
updates to v17. Is it ready?

-
Stephen Simpson
​Cimarron Software​
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Re: Web Service Properties?

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

maybe they mean, use HTTP authentication not SOAP authentication

if BASIC or DIGEST is good enough.

http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.6/WEB-SERVICE-AUTHENTICATE.301-3817472.en.html

authentication via SOAP header (not HTTP header) is an extended SOAP feature.

http://kb.4d.com/assetid=34276

http://kb.4d.com/assetid=48363

2018/07/17 2:14、Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:

I mentioned this and they responded with:

Login Credentials need not be a part of WS header.
We would use a basic login mechanism using ID/Password.

Does anyone have a clue what they mean, and how to accomplish this?



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RE: ​Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

Tim,

Yes, your suggestion is good, if people would take the effort to do that.  Our 
users do not, and hence cause all kinds of problems, which then we have to 
correct.

Education is great, if people would simply listen.  I have a couple of signs in 
my office:

 1.  I can explain it to you, but I cannot learn it for you.

 2. Can't fix stupid

You take your pick into which category this falls into.

Best,


Steve


-Original Message-
From: Timothy Penner [mailto:tpen...@4d.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 2:42 PM
To: s.o...@the-aquila-group.com; '4D iNug Technical' <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Subject: RE: ​Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

The issue as I understand it is this; Windows Server allows you to have 
multiple sessions for users concurrently logged in. This can be confusing when 
multiple people connect expecting to administer the same desktop, but instead 
of seeing a shared desktop they get their own desktop in their own session, 
even though the app they are looking to administer (4D) is running  in another 
user session. To correct this they must be aware of the session they are 
currently connected to and aware of the session that is running the app they 
want to administer.

If the latest version of Windows Server no longer uses the concept of the 
console session then I would still suggest using the Task Manager to view the 
"Users" tab to determine whether or not another windows session exists.
Then, from the users tab of the Task Manager you can expand the list of 
processes on a per user session basis, this allows you to see if 4D is running 
under any of the existing sessions.
If you see 4D running under an existing user session, you could then 
right-click on the user name and choose "Connect" to control that session.

-Tim


Timothy Penner
Senior Technical Services Engineer


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RE: ​Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

The issue as I understand it is this; Windows Server allows you to have 
multiple sessions for users concurrently logged in. This can be confusing when 
multiple people connect expecting to administer the same desktop, but instead 
of seeing a shared desktop they get their own desktop in their own session, 
even though the app they are looking to administer (4D) is running  in another 
user session. To correct this they must be aware of the session they are 
currently connected to and aware of the session that is running the app they 
want to administer.

If the latest version of Windows Server no longer uses the concept of the 
console session then I would still suggest using the Task Manager to view the 
"Users" tab to determine whether or not another windows session exists.
Then, from the users tab of the Task Manager you can expand the list of 
processes on a per user session basis, this allows you to see if 4D is running 
under any of the existing sessions.
If you see 4D running under an existing user session, you could then 
right-click on the user name and choose "Connect" to control that session.

-Tim



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RE: ​Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

Tim,

I don't believe on the latest version you can connect to the console anymore, 
which is why we are having issues with RD.


Steve


-Original Message-
From: Timothy Penner [mailto:tpen...@4d.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 2:21 PM
To: s.o...@the-aquila-group.com; 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Subject: RE: ​Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

Quote:
> Just don't use RD in an environment you don't control because it does not 
> launch to the console, it creates a new session.  If you have multiple people 
> accessing the same system, they all have their own sessions and it creates 
> all kinds of problems.

You need to make sure the users connect to the admin console...

There are a number of ways of doing this:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/278845/how-to-connect-to-and-shadow-the-console-session-with-windows-server-2
https://www.veritas.com/support/en_US/article.HOWTO55885

I usually just bring up the task manager, view the Users tab, then right click 
on the user that session of the console and choose "connect".

-Tim



Timothy Penner
Senior Technical Services Engineer


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RE: ​Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Quote:
> Just don't use RD in an environment you don't control because it does not 
> launch to the console, it creates a new session.  If you have multiple people 
> accessing the same system, they all have their own sessions and it creates 
> all kinds of problems.

You need to make sure the users connect to the admin console...

There are a number of ways of doing this:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/278845/how-to-connect-to-and-shadow-the-console-session-with-windows-server-2
https://www.veritas.com/support/en_US/article.HOWTO55885

I usually just bring up the task manager, view the Users tab, then right click 
on the user that session of the console and choose "connect".

-Tim




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RE: ​Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

Just don't use RD in an environment you don't control because it does not 
launch to the console, it creates a new session.  If you have multiple people 
accessing the same system, they all have their own sessions and it creates all 
kinds of problems.


Steve

-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Charles Miller 
via 4D_Tech
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 2:04 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Charles Miller 
Subject: Re: ​Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

I like this as well

Regards


Chuck


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Re: ​Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

I like this as well

Regards


Chuck

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 2:14 PM, steve simpson via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 2:01 PM,
> ​
> John Baughma wrote:
>
> > I really like Microsoft Remote Desktop for Mac which can be downloaded
> for
> > free from Microsoft. They regularly update it. Clipboards are shared and
> > you can designate one or more folders on your Mac as network drives which
> > automatically mount when you log in.
> > ​[snip]​
> >
> >
> ​+1
> --
> Stephen Simpson
> Cimarron Software​
> **
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-- 
-
 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
 Informed Solutions, Inc.
 Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
   Providers of 4D, Sybase & SQL Server connectivity
  http://www.informed-solutions.com
-
This message and any attached documents contain information which may be
confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under
applicable law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the
intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this
transmission, you are hereby notified that any distribution, disclosure,
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reliance upon this transmission is strictly prohibited.  Delivery of this
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Re: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Christopher Wyatt PhD via 4D_Tech]

Like so many dead apps, the website is gone, too. It’s not a big deal, as
we have data exported. One thing I was able to do, which also gives me that
dev’s schema to compare to similar apps.

It wasn’t a bad app for nature watching. Just not a significant Mac market.

The question is if I try to create a similar app for personal use or just
stick to spreadsheets. On Windows, I’d create a database in a heartbeat. On
Mac not so many choices.

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 2:06 PM Charles Miller via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> As long as you have source for the app, you can upgrade. If you do not have
> source it is a little more problematic but can be done.
>
> You can contact me off list if you wish cjmillerinformed-solutions.com
>
> Regards
>
> Chuck
>
> On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 12:41 AM, Christopher Wyatt PhD via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> > I attempted to join the other listservs on the 4D site. Assume they are
> > dead. It is difficult to locate current reviews, media, etc.
> >
> > My goal was to see if an older nature app (Wingz) in 4D might be
> > salvageable. At least the data. Not a great many options on the Mac,
> > especially if net access not a given.
> >
> > The lack of forum and list activity concerns me. I last used 4D 2004.
> >
> > - CSW
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 12:34 AM Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech <
> > 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I tried to turn on a few young developers to 4D and suggested they join
> > > the list. They were never able to post. I take it the list is highly
> > > censored based on the feedback I’ve received. I didn’t know the bar was
> > > that high. So, who’s the gatekeeper...?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Robert
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > **
> > > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> > > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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> > > **
> > **
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
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> > **
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> -
>  Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
>  Informed Solutions, Inc.
>  Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
>Providers of 4D, Sybase & SQL Server connectivity
>   http://www.informed-solutions.com
>
> -
> This message and any attached documents contain information which may be
> confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under
> applicable law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the
> intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this
> transmission, you are hereby notified that any distribution, disclosure,
> printing, copying, storage, modification or the taking of any action in
> reliance upon this transmission is strictly prohibited.  Delivery of this
> message to any person other than the intended recipient shall not
> compromise or waive such confidentiality, privilege or exemption
> from disclosure as to this communication.
> **
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​Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[steve simpson via 4D_Tech]

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 2:01 PM,
​
John Baughma wrote:

> I really like Microsoft Remote Desktop for Mac which can be downloaded for
> free from Microsoft. They regularly update it. Clipboards are shared and
> you can designate one or more folders on your Mac as network drives which
> automatically mount when you log in.
> ​[snip]​
>
>
​+1
--
Stephen Simpson
Cimarron Software​
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RE: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[Lo via 4D_Tech]

Hi Kirk

Lots of options.
And lots of cost options, of course!

I support customers in far flung places (From the UK) and have done so for some 
time.
Half way around the world, and often with very limited bandwidth.

Various products over the years, but TeamViewer for the last many.
Yes, it costs, but it get what you pay for.
So, depending on your need, and pricing model?
Costs me nothing. That's what customers are for.

Solid, reliable, and good performance on slightly dicky connections.

Love and kisses
Lo

Yes, Oxford comma...
I'm that old.


-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> On Behalf Of Kirk Brooks via 
4D_Tech
Sent: 15 July 2018 21:27
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Kirk Brooks 
Subject: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

I've been using LogMeIn for a few years. It was great at $100/year. It was OK 
at $200/year but now it's going up to $350/year and it's time to loo for 
something else.

Suggestions?

--
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*We go vote - they go home*
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Re: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

As long as you have source for the app, you can upgrade. If you do not have
source it is a little more problematic but can be done.

You can contact me off list if you wish cjmillerinformed-solutions.com

Regards

Chuck

On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 12:41 AM, Christopher Wyatt PhD via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> I attempted to join the other listservs on the 4D site. Assume they are
> dead. It is difficult to locate current reviews, media, etc.
>
> My goal was to see if an older nature app (Wingz) in 4D might be
> salvageable. At least the data. Not a great many options on the Mac,
> especially if net access not a given.
>
> The lack of forum and list activity concerns me. I last used 4D 2004.
>
> - CSW
>
> On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 12:34 AM Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> > I tried to turn on a few young developers to 4D and suggested they join
> > the list. They were never able to post. I take it the list is highly
> > censored based on the feedback I’ve received. I didn’t know the bar was
> > that high. So, who’s the gatekeeper...?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > **
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
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RE: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[David Ringsmuth via 4D_Tech]

Kirk,

Connectwise (ScreenConnect) is the best replacement for LogMeIn.

Cheaper, more features.

But if you share your account, only 1 user can use it at a time. LogMeIn 
allowed me to share subsets of computer access without paying more.

David Ringsmuth

From: Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2018 3:27 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical
Cc: Kirk Brooks
Subject: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

I've been using LogMeIn for a few years. It was great at $100/year. It was
OK at $200/year but now it's going up to $350/year and it's time to loo for
something else.

Suggestions?

-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*We go vote - they go home*
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Re: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

> My goal was to see if an older nature app (Wingz) in 4D might be
> salvageable. At least the data. Not a great many options on the Mac,
> especially if net access not a given.

> The lack of forum and list activity concerns me. I last used 4D 2004.

from my understanding and experience - moving to a newer version of 4D
from a database circa 2004 is doable, and might not even be difficult,
but a lot of that will depend on (old) source system.




> 
> On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 12:34 AM Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> I tried to turn on a few young developers to 4D and suggested they join
>> the list. They were never able to post. I take it the list is highly
>> censored based on the feedback I’ve received. I didn’t know the bar was
>> that high. So, who’s the gatekeeper...?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> **
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Web Service Properties?

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

Looking for some input/advice.

I have a customer who wants us to embed login credentials as part of our web
service call back to them.  We have already dealt with this in the past,
building a special "header" to embed this information into.

I mentioned this and they responded with:

 Login Credentials need not be a part of WS header.
 We would use a basic login mechanism using ID/Password.

Does anyone have a clue what they mean, and how to accomplish this?

They sent me a screen shot from SOAPUI with the XML payload, but off to the
side they have a SOAPUI property box showing there they put the login
credentials.

Is there any information on how to accomplish this and if it can even be
accomplished?

Thanks!


Steve

*
  Stephen J. Orth
  The Aquila Group, Inc. Office:  (608) 834-9213
  P.O. Box 690   Mobile:  (608) 347-6447
  Sun Prairie, WI 53590

  E-Mail:  s.o...@the-aquila-group.com
*


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Re: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Christopher Wyatt PhD via 4D_Tech]

I attempted to join the other listservs on the 4D site. Assume they are
dead. It is difficult to locate current reviews, media, etc.

My goal was to see if an older nature app (Wingz) in 4D might be
salvageable. At least the data. Not a great many options on the Mac,
especially if net access not a given.

The lack of forum and list activity concerns me. I last used 4D 2004.

- CSW

On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 12:34 AM Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> I tried to turn on a few young developers to 4D and suggested they join
> the list. They were never able to post. I take it the list is highly
> censored based on the feedback I’ve received. I didn’t know the bar was
> that high. So, who’s the gatekeeper...?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> **
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Re: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Christopher Wyatt PhD via 4D_Tech]

I’m trying to convince myself to return to 4D vs FileMaker or coding in
Swift. Xojo is a no, after adding in the plug-ins I’d be likely to use.
Curiously, Panorama is promising.

Just hobby things for myself. But I actually liked 4D and its power. Plus I
could share interpreted databases with my wife.

4D has faded, but so have most dedicated databases. Sad.

- CSW

On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 10:09 PM Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Yes, I thought 4D was running the list too. Yes, I’m quite sure it’s not a
> technical glitch since I heard it from multiple users. Anyway, it doesn’t
> bother me but I thought 4D would want new developers to join in on the fun.
> Thanks for your contribution and yes all points duly noted.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 15, 2018, at 4:44 PM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > * This list is run by 4D.
>
> **
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Re: How to protect JS Source Code?

[Christopher Wyatt PhD via 4D_Tech]

Obfuscation is the only reliable option with JavaScript. There are tools
that “encrypt” the text but they have significant overhead.

By definition, JS is text, interpreted. There are JavaScript compilers that
sit on JVM. Mixed reviews for all.

- CSW

On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 12:39 AM Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> One of the beauties of 4D is that the source code can be delivered in a
> compiled form which more than obfuscates the code. So, if you have a full
> JavaScript stack application running on the customers server, not merely
> hosted solution, how can the source code (mostly JS) be protected?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> **
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RE: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I really hate auto-correct.
I swear I correct it more then it corrects me...
Bug = Nug

On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 11:39:53 -0400, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech wrote:
> do not know that address was copied from the info link in the 4D bug 
> signature.
> 
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 15:16:06 +, Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 
> 4D_Tech wrote:
>> I think this is the right one: 4d_tech-j...@lists.4d.com, isn't it?
>> 
>> Regards 
>> Lutz
>> 
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of 
>>> Chip Scheide via
>>> 4D_Tech
>>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 3:58 PM
>>> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>>> Cc: Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org>
>>> Subject: Re: Who’s the Gestapo?
>>> 
>>> there is a list mom (see below standard added signature for the
>>> information on where to subscribe)
>>> the new user(s) must send a request to loin the list to:
>>> 4d_pub-j...@lists.4d.com
>> **
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> Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[John Baughman via 4D_Tech]

I really like Microsoft Remote Desktop for Mac which can be downloaded for free 
from Microsoft. They regularly update it. Clipboards are shared and you can 
designate one or more folders on your Mac as network drives which  
automatically mount when you log in. 

With RMD you are logging in as one of the users on that machine which is great 
as you have the choice of whether to log in with the Admin account or not. The 
only drawback is that this means only one user at a time and if someone is 
logged into the same account you kick them off without any warning. On the 
other hand you can both be on with different accounts. 

John Baughman
Kailua, Hawaii
john...@hawaii.rr.com

> On Jul 16, 2018, at 1:29 AM, Douglas Cryer via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately there is no Mac client so I have to use parallels
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RE: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

do not know that address was copied from the info link in the 4D bug 
signature.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 15:16:06 +, Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 
4D_Tech wrote:
> I think this is the right one: 4d_tech-j...@lists.4d.com, isn't it?
> 
> Regards 
> Lutz
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Chip Scheide via
>> 4D_Tech
>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 3:58 PM
>> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> Cc: Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org>
>> Subject: Re: Who’s the Gestapo?
>> 
>> there is a list mom (see below standard added signature for the
>> information on where to subscribe)
>> the new user(s) must send a request to loin the list to:
>> 4d_pub-j...@lists.4d.com
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[David Conley via 4D_Tech]

Kirk,

We switched from LogmeIn to Splashtop years ago.  We use it from Mac to Windows 
all the time and it works great.  Can move files to/from as well.  No 
complaints here.

David Conley

> On Jul 15, 2018, at 8:03 PM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Good suggestions guys. I really appreciate it. Many things I've been
> looking at already. I use TeamViewer quite a lot to help people with
> 'stuff'. Usually 'Here, let me google that for you' but it's also good when
> someone is saying, "4D just isn't working right..." and I want to see what
> they are actually doing vs. what they say is happening.
> 
> I should have mentioned, because not everyone knows me, that I really want
> a mac to windows solution if possible. TeamViewer would be a good choice
> though in this particular case it would actually increase our annual cost
> though it would offer a lot more usefulness much of which I wouldn't
> actually use.
> 
> SplashTop has a great website and looks like the leading contender at the
> moment. Can anyone speak to using it from a Mac to Windows?
> 
> I use DropBox for moving files to and fro as well so doing that in session
> isn't so much of a deal.
> 
]
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Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Thanks Alan and Miyako. Interesting approaches and tools I hadn't
considered. To be honest probably not a direction I'm going as my skills in
those areas are adequate at best and I'm afraid of horking something up by
mistake and then having to go down to the datacenter to fix it.

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 12:47 AM Alan Chan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> We use RealVNC on all servers but use TeamViewer for client machines. We
> used to use LogMeIn for client machines but our support guys prefer
> Teamviewer and I didn't ask why.
>
> Alan Chan
>
> **
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-- 
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San Francisco, CA
===

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Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Hey Doug,
RAdmin looks pretty good. Certainly priced right for situations where one
has a smallish number of machines to manage. Good information on Simplehelp
too.

Thanks!

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 1:30 AM Douglas Cryer via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I thought I would chime in as I may have something useful to contribute
> for once __
>
> My support team manage over 30 hosted Windows servers mostly at our data
> centre but some at client sites.  For server remote control we almost
> exclusively use RAdmin.  Unfortunately there is no Mac client so I have to
> use parallels on my Laptop when I am away from the office.  Radmin is
> really fast and allows more than one person at a time to be on the same
> server under the same account which is a huge thing for us.
>
> We also use a product called SimpleHelp.  SimpleHelp is not as fast but it
> solves a completely different use case for us that is supporting and
> training drop in users as well as supporting our EPOS till estate.  Simple
> help is a web Java based tool (Mac, Windows, Unix) that allows on demand or
> persistent access to any remote machine.  So users can connect to a queue
> where our support team can pick up the connection or we can connect to a
> persistent connection that has been previously created.  We run simple help
> on a UNIX server and have a concurrent license which fits the needs of our
> small support team.
>
> Hope this is useful.
>
> Regards,  Dougie
> 
>
> telekinetix Limited- J. Douglas Cryer
> Phone : 01234 761759  Mobile : 07973 675 218
> 2nd Floor Broadway House, 4-6 The Broadway, Bedford MK40 2TE
> Email : jdcr...@telekinetix.com  Web : http://www.telekinetix.com <
> http://www.telekinetix.com/>
> 
>
>
>
>
> **
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-- 
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San Francisco, CA
===

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Re: subtables issue

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

Thanks to all. My issue is visual. I will check to see where the data is. I
have done this many times before but have never seen the subtable structure
remain

Regards


Chuck

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 12:57 AM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> unless you were specifically asked to convert subtables,
> I think it would be best to not care about them and focus on converting
> pictures.
>
> as long as you keep the virtual subtable structure "as is" and never touch
> them,
> your subtable commands will continue to work in your methods
> and your list sub-tables will continue to display your sub-selections in
> your forms.
> (just make sure the data source table actually references your sub-table
> fields, not the real tables).
>
> transition from sub-tables to related tables take a lot of commitment,
> to replace commands one by one and modify forms one by one,
> and to finally "cut" the virtual subform link which is an irreversible
> procedure.
>
> the best outcome would be for you to end up where you started except you
> are using regular tables.
> the would be no practical value for the end user (other than may SQL
> connectivity to sub records import/export).
>
> you are already on v17,
> so the debate should be whether to stick with subtables or reengineer the
> whole thing using ORDA.
>
> 2018/07/16 8:40、Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com d_t...@lists.4d.com>>のメール:
>
> I have a situation I have not encountered and am stumped. I have been
> asked by a person to upgrade pictures in a v17 db. When I open the
> structure, I still see subtables there. I also see the tables that have
> been created as part of conversion. What gives? The new tables appear to be
> there. I am not sure what to do now.
>
>
>
> **
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-- 
-
 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
 Informed Solutions, Inc.
 Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
   Providers of 4D, Sybase & SQL Server connectivity
  http://www.informed-solutions.com
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RE: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

Steve,

 I also use Outlook and typically see all my posts.  However the times when I 
have not is because I did not send them as "text" but instead as "html".  
Outlook by default won't send it as "text" so you really should change it to 
that before sending.

Just a thought...


Steve


-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Steve Makohin 
via 4D_Tech
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 3:05 AM
To: '4D iNug Technical' <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Steve Makohin 
Subject: RE: Who’s the Gestapo?

I post to this list from Outlook. I have no idea why, by my original post 
doesn't *seem* to appear in the list. In other words, I don't get an email from 
the list showing my original post. Curious. I can't explain it. (Not a problem 
for me)

This *might* give someone the impression that they're being censored, or that 
there's a technical problem that prevents their posts from showing up on the 
list.

However, I do get replies from the list, indicating my original post did make 
it to the list, even though I didn't see it.

-Steve Makohin
 Water's Edge Software

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RE: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 4D_Tech]

Below you can find a link to the list options: 
https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
There you are able to adjust e.g. the setting:
> Receive your own posts to the list?
> Ordinarily, you will get a copy of every message you post to the list. If 
> you don't want to receive this copy, set this option to No.

May be you changed that in the past.

Regards
Lutz

> I post to this list from Outlook. I have no idea why, by my original post 
> doesn't
> *seem* to appear in the list. In other words, I don't get an email from the 
> list showing
> my original post. Curious. I can't explain it. (Not a problem for me)
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Re: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Julio Carneiro via 4D_Tech]

Yes Steve, that is a feature of most mail clients & lists, your own posts are 
not sent back to you, which makes sense. Your posts are on your “sent” list and 
do not appear on the incoming flow.

You do not get a confirmation back, not on 4D list and almost any list I 
participate on.
But you do get an error back if you post to the list using an unknown email. I 
guess most people here have more than one email address, and use one 
specifically for the list (my case). If I post to the NUG using an incorrect 
email I do get a message back from the NUG server telling me so.

And, as others have said here, this is the first time I see complains on 
censorship on this NUG.

julio

> On Jul 16, 2018, at 9:05 AM, Steve Makohin via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I post to this list from Outlook. I have no idea why, by my original post 
> doesn't *seem* to appear in the list. In other words, I don't get an email 
> from the list showing my original post. Curious. I can't explain it. (Not a 
> problem for me)
> 
> This *might* give someone the impression that they're being censored, or that 
> there's a technical problem that prevents their posts from showing up on the 
> list.
> 
> However, I do get replies from the list, indicating my original post did make 
> it to the list, even though I didn't see it.
> 
> -Steve Makohin
> Water's Edge Software
> 
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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--
Julio Carneiro
jjfo...@gmail.com



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Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[Douglas Cryer via 4D_Tech]

Hi there,

I thought I would chime in as I may have something useful to contribute for 
once __

My support team manage over 30 hosted Windows servers mostly at our data centre 
but some at client sites.  For server remote control we almost exclusively use 
RAdmin.  Unfortunately there is no Mac client so I have to use parallels on my 
Laptop when I am away from the office.  Radmin is really fast and allows more 
than one person at a time to be on the same server under the same account which 
is a huge thing for us.

We also use a product called SimpleHelp.  SimpleHelp is not as fast but it 
solves a completely different use case for us that is supporting and training 
drop in users as well as supporting our EPOS till estate.  Simple help is a web 
Java based tool (Mac, Windows, Unix) that allows on demand or persistent access 
to any remote machine.  So users can connect to a queue where our support team 
can pick up the connection or we can connect to a persistent connection that 
has been previously created.  We run simple help on a UNIX server and have a 
concurrent license which fits the needs of our small support team.

Hope this is useful.

Regards,  Dougie


telekinetix Limited- J. Douglas Cryer
Phone : 01234 761759  Mobile : 07973 675 218
2nd Floor Broadway House, 4-6 The Broadway, Bedford MK40 2TE
Email : jdcr...@telekinetix.com  Web : http://www.telekinetix.com 


 



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RE: Who’s the Gestapo?

[Steve Makohin via 4D_Tech]

I post to this list from Outlook. I have no idea why, by my original post 
doesn't *seem* to appear in the list. In other words, I don't get an email from 
the list showing my original post. Curious. I can't explain it. (Not a problem 
for me)

This *might* give someone the impression that they're being censored, or that 
there's a technical problem that prevents their posts from showing up on the 
list.

However, I do get replies from the list, indicating my original post did make 
it to the list, even though I didn't see it.

-Steve Makohin
 Water's Edge Software

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Re: What do you use to monitor your offsite servers?

[Alan Chan via 4D_Tech]

We use RealVNC on all servers but use TeamViewer for client machines. We used 
to use LogMeIn for client machines but our support guys prefer Teamviewer and I 
didn't ask why.

Alan Chan

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Re: Execute on Server Method Attribute

[Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech]

> Le 15 juil. 2018 à 04:47, Ben Kershaw via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Is one of those arrays a pointer array? I’m guessing so, because that doesn’t 
> work and results in that error message. A pointer to other array types works 
> fine, but not a pointer array. Sorry.
> 
> It should work, since you can send pointers to an EoS method, but… it 
> doesn’t. 4D could probably make it work, but they haven’t.

I've encountered that too, 1st level pointer is ok, 2nd is not. 

-- 
Arnaud de Montard 




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