from:"V Stuart Foote"

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] LibreOffice Writer 24.2.1.2 for Windows: Pressing the Alt Key by Itself No Longer Moves Focus to the Menu Bar

2024-03-06 Thread V Stuart Foote


David, *

I opened a Bugzilla issue tdf#160075 [1] for the regression at 24.2.1, 
requesting a bibisect.


But note that issue seems resolved already with the nightly builds of 
master against 24.8.0 release.


Stuart

=-ref-=
[1] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=160075


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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] LibreOffice Writer 24.2.1.2 for Windows: Pressing the Alt Key by Itself No Longer Moves Focus to the Menu Bar

2024-03-06 Thread V Stuart Foote


David, *

I have to apologize for the noise.

I've misremembered the progression.

At 5.1 for bug tdf#92630 and handling on GTK3 we'd tweaked the 
mbEnableAccel and mbAutoAccel to be consistent cross platform.
Which for Windows eliminated the  key focus onto main menu 'File' 
with opening of that menu. See won't fix bug tdf#124048


Instead  was behaving like  and would only focus to the main 
menu default of 'File', without opening it. Requiring a cursor key 
between menus, or one of the main menu mnemonics, was now needed.   
and  behaved the same entered from document canvas.


Meaning the  should toggle to the main menu, and *confirming your 
observation* of an issue at 24.2.1.2 release.


However, at 24.8 for bug tdf#54169 we've cleaned up the UI response to 
 and to follow the SPI_GETKEYBOARDCUES read from MS Windows 'Ease 
of Access center' action "Underline access keys when available" or from 
Win11 accessibility settings "Underline access keys".  And with that the 
 focus again matches the  focus.


Will open a Bugzilla issue against 24.2.1

Stuart

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] LibreOffice Writer 24.2.1.2 for Windows: Pressing the Alt Key by Itself No Longer Moves Focus to the Menu Bar

2024-03-04 Thread V Stuart Foote


On 2024-03-04 12:58, David Goldfield wrote:

Version: 24.2.1.2 (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community
...

In previous versions pressing the alt key by itself moved focus to the 
menu
bar. While I can still press key combinations such as alt-f to open the 
File
menu pressing just the alt key does nothing. Pressing f10 moves focus 
to the

menu bar but pressing alt is a bit easier. Is this a bug or was it a
deliberate change? I can't locate any options in Settings to revert 
this

behavior.



Hi David,

Like Jason, but on Windows,  key alone has never focused to the 
main menu with AT enabled.


F10, or cycling F6 remains the core keyboard and assistive technology 
movement. Nothing has changed.


Please note thought that for the current master against a 24.8.0 
release, handling of the Alt key has been adjusted as for tdf#54169 ( 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54169 ) to follow 
os/DE settings. Which, with a MS Windows assistive technology tools 
enabled signal, should toggle enabled with a screen reader in use.  You 
can check a current nightly of master and check for any impact.


Stuart

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Inserting comments with a screen reader.

2024-02-11 Thread V Stuart Foote


On 2024-02-11 09:44, Jason J.G. White wrote:

On 11/2/24 09:22, V Stuart Foote wrote:
The  + 4 to land directly on the Navigator deck followed by  
and Cursor down movements down to the Comments nodes does expose the 
content of each of the comments.


Additionally when focused on a comment in Windows the  +  
will expose the context menu for the comment allowing editing and a go 
to action.


Thank you for the update. The next time I receive an office-file-format 
document containing comments, I'll try the above-mentioned features. 
I'm using Linux with Orca.


Naturally, I would welcome improvements in this area. I shouldn't have 
to turn to Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office just to read and 
respond to comments in a document.


Can't test currently, but the Windows + for Context menu 
(i.e.  keycode 135 keysym MENU : 0xFF67) according to a quick Google 
search, in addition to +, might be provided via + 
in some Linux DE, and by + on macOS -- you have to figure 
out the mapping for the MENU if not +. The xev utility 
should expose which on Linux.


Otherwise Navigation down to the Comment object listing in the Sidebar 
Navigator deck should work the same cross platform. And once there, 
focus onto each to sound. Or open its context menu to manipulate.  Would 
be nice to be able to get there directly via shortcut -- perhaps 
overloading the ++ to direct into the SB 
Navigator deck.


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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Inserting comments with a screen reader.

2024-02-11 Thread V Stuart Foote


On 2024-02-11 00:57, Stéphane Guillou wrote:


Thanks for the response, Stuart.

Another useful shortcut is Ctrl + Alt + Pg Up or Down to jump from one 
comment to another.


I'll add two relevant tickets regarding the currently limited 
accessibility of Writer comments:


 * Allow editing comments using the keyboard:
   https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102054
 * Comment text not interacted with by screen readers:
   https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92389

Cheers



Yes, it is more of a mess than I'd remembered. With Win10 and NVDA 
2023.3.2 and LO 24.2.03 unfortunately the ++ or 
 will land on the Comment but then does not sound them, suspect 
missing/mistyped accessible event on focus. They're only available via 
convoluted keyboard navigation into the Navigator Comments listing.


I don't have an ORCA set up at the moment, but suspect similar there 
(only via context menu from the Navigator deck).


Status as Christophe S. summarized in comment 11 of tdf#92389 [1] and as 
noted in the NVDA issues [2] [3].


Since then, the work on the Navigator deck has moved things along a 
little bit.


The  + 4 to land directly on the Navigator deck followed by  
and Cursor down movements down to the Comments nodes does expose the 
content of each of the comments.


Additionally when focused on a comment in Windows the  +  
will expose the context menu for the comment allowing editing and a go 
to action.


But, much room to improve.

=-ref-=
[1] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92389
[2] https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/7700
[3] https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11684


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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Inserting comments with a screen reader.

2024-02-10 Thread V Stuart Foote


On 2024-02-10 10:30, Robert Kingett wrote:
I am running the 2024.2 version of LibreOffice, on Windows 11, the 
latest version, and using the free and open source screen reader NVDA. 
When I press the key command to insert a comment in a Writer document, 
control Alt M, a pane opens but when I press F6 and navigate to the 
pane, that's when I have an extremely hard time finding that edit 
field. Could someone give me a bit more guidance on how to actually 
open the comments edit box or at least provide me with a layout as to 
what is in that pane so I know how to navigate it better?


The shortcut to open a new comment is Control + Alt + C

Alternative to create new comment is to use the main menu via F10,  then 
enter I, then enter N as accelerator. The specific key for accelerator 
can/will change depending on locale.  The shortcut Control + Alt + C 
should be stable.


When you open the Comment dialog, you already are in its edit field. 
After entering content, an Escape key will return edit cursor focus to 
the document canvas.


However, once comment is present on document canvas, there is limited 
keyboard navigation via document canvas. An F6 sequence will take cursor 
focus out of the document. Not into the comment objects.


So instead, the Sidebar provides the Navigator deck, where Comments can 
be efficiently reviewed.  Use the Alt key + number 4 shortcut to land on 
the Navigator SB deck. Alternative is to launch an undocked Navigator 
using the F5 key. Slightly different behavior between the floating F5 
navigator and the sidebar deck via Alt key + number 4 (don't use the 
numpad 4).


Once focused on the Navigator deck, simple TAB or Shift TAB will move 
between blocks of controls, while Cursor up or down will advance through 
items.


If you get lost, F10 will always take you back to main menu. And F6 or 
shift F6 moves between major UI elements.   The Alt + number 4 will take 
you to the sidebar Navigator deck or F5 will toggle the floating 
navigator open or closed.


The navigator has many movement modes, the one you want is listed as 
Navigate by comments.  But there are many other things you could 
navigate the document by. For example bookmarks, pages, frames depending 
on what is present in the document.  Be sure of which selection is made 
in the navigate by list box.


Give that a try for manipulating Comments

Please ask if you have specific issues

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Stuart

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Reading of documents in Libreoffice

2024-02-10 Thread V Stuart Foote




This is a known issue open as Bugzilla issues tdf#35652 and tdf#91739 at 
these links


https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35652
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91739

--
Stuart

On 2024-02-10 09:39, Jarek.Krcmar wrote:

Good day,

My name is Jaroslav Krcmar and I am a Libreoffice user.

Since I am blind, I have a screen reader installed.

When I save a document in Libreoffice, after opening it, it is not read 
from beginning to end, it is always read line by line. I therefore want 
to ask if something can be done about it.



Best regards


--
Jarek


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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] A problem with reading of all document in Libreoffice from begin to end

2024-02-10 Thread V Stuart Foote


On 2024-02-10 04:40, Jarek.Krcmar wrote:

Dobrý den,

Jmenuji se Jaroslav Krcmar a jsem uživatelem Libreoffice.

Protože jsem nevidomý, mám nainstalovaný odečítač obrazovky.

Když uložím nějaký dokument v Libreoffice, tak po jeho otevření mi není 
přečten od začátku do konce, vždy je čten po jednotlivých řádcích. Chci 
se proto zeptat, jestli se s tím dá něco dělat.



S pozdravem


--
Jarek


Body gloss in English by Google Translate


Good day,

My name is Jaroslav Krcmar and I am a Libreoffice user.

Since I am blind, I have a screen reader installed.

When I save a document in Libreoffice, after opening it, it is not read 
from beginning to end, it is always read line by line. I therefore want 
to ask if something can be done about it.



Best regards


This is a known issue open as Bugzilla issues tdf#35652 and tdf#91739 at 
these links


https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35652
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91739

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Stuart

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: high contrast accessibility application guidelines?

2022-10-11 Thread V Stuart Foote

Caolán, *

These Microsoft notes are helpful in general with some specifics for Windows 
os/DE implementors:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/winauto/high-contrast-parameter

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/controls/supporting-high-contrast-themes

Stuart

From: Michael Weghorn 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:20 AM
To: libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org ; 
accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: high contrast accessibility 
application guidelines?

  **EXTERNAL EMAIL**
  This email originated outside of The University of Texas at San Antonio.
  Please exercise caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.

[Adding the accessibility mailing list, somebody on that list might have
more insights]

On 10/10/2022 22.02, Caolán McNamara wrote:
> Is there a set of guidelines as to the intent of high contrast within
> documents?

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Using Libre office with the Jaws screen Reader

2020-09-21 Thread V Stuart Foote

Hi Chantal,

Sorry, unfortunately JAWS has no support for the IAccessible2 based
accessible event API that is implemented in LibreOffice.  You would have to
shift to the NVDA screen reader on Windows, or to a Linux with its ORCA
screen reader to use LibreOffice.

If you remain with JAWS, it has support for the Microsoft UIA API used in
later Office product offerings. As does the NVDA screen reader.

Stuart



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Accessibility in LibreOffice

2019-05-09 Thread V Stuart Foote

@Kevin T.

Posted answer to Ask   question 192867

 
.

For more assistance, better to ask on the development mailing list as the
right folks watch there.

Stuart



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] navigating the autocorrect options table?

2018-05-04 Thread V Stuart Foote

Quintin C. had commented on similar issue with the Expert Configuration
dialog tree's table rows ( tdf#99609
  ) that with
NVDA in Object review mode--you are able to navigate the Table in the
Options tab of the AutoCorrect Options dialog.

That is forward with the "Move to next object" or backward with the "Move to
prior object" -- e.g. NVDA+numpad-6, NVDA+numpad-4

The table is arranged in 3 columns -- 1st column is a check box to be
applied when Modifying existing text, the 2nd column is a check box to be
applied while Typing in new text,  the 3rd column is the auto correct
attribute affected by the check boxes in column 1 & 2.

So, you are not completely blocked from doing the auto-correct
configuration.



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] navigating the autocorrect options table?

2018-05-04 Thread V Stuart Foote

Blindjourno wrote
> Using the latest NVDA on windows 10, I am having a really hard time 
> navigating through the autocorrect options tab within the dialog where 
> users can check or uncheck options like capitalize first letter of 
> sentences and otherwise? When I try to navigate the table using my table 
> keys, nothing is spoken so I have no idea what I am checking or 
> unchecking. When I tab, I hear, only, checkbox. Could someone make those 
> row headers read automatically?

That is known a11y issue inherited from OpenOffice.org and is open in the
LibreOffice Bugzilla as  tdf#88761
  

I'll give it a bump as it is pretty annoying...



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Windows LO with JAWS

2018-05-04 Thread V Stuart Foote

Blindjourno wrote
> Since you all can take code from OO, can't you take basically, all of 
> their accessibility information and use it in LO? I mean, I stopped 
> using JAWS years ago, but I heard from other people that JAWS works with 
> OO? Would that be a lot of work? Taking all of the accessibility 
> information from OO because OO is very accessible, just not updated or 
> even nearly as stable.

Apache OpenOffice (AOO) uses the same IAccessible2 API, but unlike
LibreOffice they left the MSAA/IAccessible API in place, so there is
marginal Assistive Technology tool support in AOO with JAWS. And, nothing
that LibreOffice would care to implement--thank you.

Before its demise WindowsEyes had support for select IA2 based
applications--but never LibreOffice or AOO.

VFO/Freedom Scientific's refusal to support accessible events instrumented
with IA2 API has never made much sense to me personally, but their
insistence on Windows applications adopting Microsoft UI Automation (UIA)
brands them as a second rate player in the Free and Open Source Software
arena. It is not their business model--too bad if you are dependent on them.

LibreOffice as an OpenSource and cross platform development project is not
obliged to provide proprietary UIA bindings--an extension to "bridge" IA2 to
UIA could be developed--but we'll leave that to Freedom Scientific to
implement if they choose. We'll concentrate on making the native IA2/ATK &
AT-SPI/NSAccessibility bridges function cross platform against LibreOffices
internal accessibility modules.

For any JAWS user on Windows--LibreOffice is accessible at no cost, simply
install NVDA. Alternatively, ORCA on a Linux will do well, but if you need
more hand holding for a small fee the Hypra project's U.A.S. "Universally
Accessible operating System"  is a first rate Linux Debian distribution.

Enjoy...



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Windows LO with JAWS

2018-05-04 Thread V Stuart Foote

Bryen Yunashko wrote
> ... A couple of months ago, I installed LibreOffice and had great
> difficulty because often when I started up LO, Jaws would stop working and
> then restart itself.
> 
> A number of buttons and fields didn't work either.   So, I put it aside
> for a while.   This week I decided to try again and asked someone to
> update the latest LO as the inplace update button wasn't accessible for
> me.
> 
> Now, when I start LO, it does not even speak anything.  It is completely
> "hidden."   But I know LO is actually running because I will randomly type
> some text, then press Alt+F4 to close the program and I get a prompt to
> save or discard my file.
> 
> But while LO is open, nothing works.  No menu button, tabs, arrow keys,
> nothing.
> 
> Is this a known problem?

Completely normal...

LibreOffice implements a native Windows accessibility bridge based on the
opensource IAccessible2 API

Reference:
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/

Unfortunately for JAWS users Freedom Scientific has never seen fit to
implement modular support for IA2, so the short answer is it is known and
JAWS willl not work with LibreOffice.

You will need to install NVDA as a free and open source Windows backup to
JAWS. The screen reader navigation is a bit different--but fidelity of IA2
accessible content is much better.  LibreOffice accessible event based
support is pretty complete--and its screen review/Graphics API "screen
scraping" rounds things out. 

Available here:
https://www.nvaccess.org/

Let us know how you make out.





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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Please sign me up!

2017-03-13 Thread V Stuart Foote

Hi Sam,

You should be set having subscribed yourself to Nabble and to the ML,  and
now passed moderation.

A simple response to this should turn via the ML.





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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Problem using Libre office accessibility features

2016-05-24 Thread V Stuart Foote

@Alan,


Alan-2 wrote
> Good evening,
> 
> I've just installed Latest Libre office on my new laptop, runing a 
> windows 64 operating sistem... I read that it would be accessible using 
> screen readers like Jaws or NVDA, however, jaws doesn't provide any 
> speech output when navigating menus, etc. Using nvda, it certainly 
> brings output, but sometimes strange behaviors appear, for example, 
> after choosing a suggested option for a misspelled word from the context 
> menu.
> 
> Am I missing anything? Any help would be welcome, thanks in advance!

Sorry--no seat of JAWS or Windows Eyes to test against. But, NVDA functions
"out of the box" with LibreOffice exposing accessible events mapped to the
the Linux Foundations IAccessible2 v1.3 API.  The project does not bridge to
MS UIA. And the old Java Accessibility API "Java Access Bridge" was stripped
out when implementing the native IAccessible2 mappings.

Of course there are issues--announcing cells for tables in Writer, and the
main content  dialogs not sounding, "say all"  top to bottom reading, etc.
but  overall is reasonably usable.

Theoretically, JAWS and Windows Eyes provide the same level of support
reading LibreOffice exposed IAccessible2 events--but I can't verify.

Stuart 
 



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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Problems Installing the newer version

2016-05-18 Thread V Stuart Foote

Here is a link to the archive of prior releases.  It lists a directory for
each release, and the builds needed for each operating system are in their
own sub-directory.  So drill down to locate the specific release and OS
build you need.

http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] A11y regressions

2016-03-21 Thread V Stuart Foote

Sorry, nothing new here, and I would not characterize the LibreOffice
development as becomming more inaccessible in ensuing releases.

MENGUAL Jean-Philippe wrote
> ... in Writer, access to format and style bar becomes (ery
> difficult with keyboard.

Yes this is a problem, the F11 Styles & Formatting dialog was pushed into
the Sidebar but remains SRC based. F6, F10 sequence navigation is not fully
supported, and there is a lack of keyboard shortcut/accelerator assignments
for components in the Sidebar ( tdf#84502
).

The .src for the Styles & Formatting content panel in decks for each module
are:

Writer
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/sw/source/ui/app/app.src

Calc
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/sc/source/ui/styleui/scstyles.src

Impress/Draw
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/sd/source/ui/app/res_bmp.src

Unfortunately the .src is not fully integrated into the .ui oriented
Sidebar, and probably needs to be converted fully to .ui for seamless
keyboard navigation behavior and provide quick help as accessible text.

That should probably be written up as a new a11y related enhancement.

> ... tables are still nearly impossible to be
> browsed properly.

That is tdf#87680

> Bullets are not spoken at all and don't appear.

That is tdf#93139

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] A11y regressions

2016-03-21 Thread V Stuart Foote

Sophi,

That is  bug 87680
  No accessible
caret-moved events in Writer tables

Affecting horizontal cursor--tab movement between table cells--IAccessible2
and ATK, probably NSAccess as well.

Unconfirmed--because no reliable test case.

Stuart



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Reading tables in Writer + NVDA

2016-02-11 Thread V Stuart Foote

Hi Raphaël,

Yes with both NVDA 2015.3 and 2015.4 LibreOffice Writer table cells
navigated across rows do not sound. But do sound vertically down columns.

But, sort of seems like the issue lays with NVDA.  Not certain of that
though--anyone else with some ideas?

Anyhow, a say-all traversal of the table does sound across the rows. Also,
watching with Accprobe a Tab or  Tab movement does expose the IA2
table cell role and cell content as IA2 paragraph, with its  msaa accValue
displaying text of the paragraph.

Will poke at it some more, and may file a bug with NVDA or LibreOffice as
seems appropriate.

Thanks for reporting.

Stuart Foote
San Antonio, Texas






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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re:

2015-11-25 Thread V Stuart Foote

TomD wrote
> Is this mailing list still "active" or has it been stopped?  Is there
> anywhere for people to discuss LibreOffice, ODF format with particular
> emphasis on accessibility features?  Is this mailing list purely meant
> to be only about "technical support" for accessibility issues in
> LibreOffice?

Stopped -- not likely. List has always been open to all comers.  Just never
especially busy.  I and others kill the spam arriving on a daily basis.  And
answer issues as they come up.  Yes there is a small cadre of devs that work
a11y issues for Windows, OS X and Linux GNOME assistive technologies.  They
are all active on the dev list and in Bugzilla, they'll pop in here when
there is cause. 


> Is LibreOffice good for people who need accessibility features or is
> OpenOffice better, given the code donation given to them by IBM? 

Same IAccessible2  code base integrated as native AT bridge for Windows.
Numerous corrections and refactoring in our LibreOffice way.  Work also on
NSAccess for the OS Xside and the GNOME support for Orca is in the main
stream.


>  Are people reluctantly using OpenOffice and just waiting for improvements
> in LibreOffice so that they can switch back?  Does anyone here have
> both AOO and LO on their system so they get the best of each?  (By
> "the best" i mean the best for their own particular preferences).

Sure there are some, but as always depends on ones needs.  With NVDA 2015.4
out the door, the Windows AT users have solid support for MS UIA based
assistive technology, and legacy MSAA/IAccessible.  The OS X and Linux side
of AOO lags, but that is mainly their glacial release cycle as some work
does make it into the AOO trunk.

Stuart




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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Screen reader does not read impress presentations

2015-11-04 Thread V Stuart Foote

Alberto-2 wrote
> Hi all, and used LibreOffice in its latest version and me and noticed 
> that my NVDA screen reader reads not impress presentations. Is it 
> possible to add support for reading the presentations with this screen 
> reader? Or is it possible to implement some method to read them? Thank 
> you very much for your answers.

For playing back Imperss presentation with Screen reader (NVDA or Orca) I
believe Export to tagged PDF (rather than export to HTML)  probably provides
best presentation fidelity--although embedded images and graphics may not
have any annotation/description--that depends on the author adding them.

The authoring environment is reasonably well supported for keyboard
navigation and screen reader use--but the structure of the frames and
controls are sometimes unclear while nvaigating. Too much dependence on
visual queues.  

Fortunately  takes you to the Main menu, and   drops you
back into the slide canvas. And once homed back to a know spot,or
+ move between the panels, supplemented with  and 
movments- and a smattering of defined  shortcut accelerators. Found here:

https://help.libreoffice.org/Impress/Shortcut_Keys_for_Impress

and here:

https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Shortcuts_Accessibility





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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Question/Help Tips in Pull-down Menus

2015-03-24 Thread V Stuart Foote

David,

I just loaded NVDA 2015.1, and working with LibreOffice 4.4.1.2 with local help 
installed.

The Extended tips are sounded by NVDA regardless of the check-box setting on 
Tools - Options - General: Help

Seems like they are all there, but is there a specific panel that you recall a 
more complete help sounding for?  
Let me know and I can check for it.

Stuart


From: David Goldfield
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 11:51 AM
To: V Stuart Foote
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Question/Help Tips in Pull-down Menus

Hi, Stuart.
After trying to figure out what might have been causing the problem I did check 
those settings a while ago and both options are checked.

-Original Message-
From: V Stuart Foote
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 11:27 AM
To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Question/Help Tips in Pull-down Menus

Hi David,

Please check that you have the Extended tips check-box selected.

Tools - Options - General  in the Help section.  A check-box for Tips on by 
default, and a second check-box Extended tips is off by default.

Select that active, and you should have more complete descriptions pulled from 
the offline help pack.

Stuart

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Trying to subscribe

2015-02-01 Thread V Stuart Foote

Hi David,

The email address to use is:

accessibility  plusSign subscribe @ global.libreoffice.org

Here is the full string...

accessibility+subscr...@global.libreoffice.org

Copy and paste it into the address of a new message, no need for subject of
text. 

That should get you added--and allow you to post via Nabble.   Post back if
still hung up.

Stuart




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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Libo 4.3.4.1/We're Cooking

2014-11-18 Thread V Stuart Foote

Top posting reply to Robert K.

For Windows builds, LibreOffice does not package as .EXE files, they are 
Microsoft Installer pacages .MSI

Regards using the Ninite services:  according to the ninite news -- 
https://ninite.com/news shows that they picked up 4.3.4 release.

LibreOffice updated to 4.3.4.
Saturday at 7:45 am

So you should be OK with the Ninite service installer packaging.

Another alternative is to pick a direct link from LibreOffices mirror network 
-- these pages are on the LibreOffice download page, and are labelled Info

found here for this build:
http://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/stable/4.3.4/win/x86/LibreOffice_4.3.4_Win_x86.msi.mirrorlist

and the current help file

http://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/stable/4.3.4/win/x86/LibreOffice_4.3.4_Win_x86_helppack_en-US.msi.mirrorlist

Stuart


From: Robert Kingett
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:33 AM
To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Libo 4.3.4.1/We're Cooking

when I try and install it says to please mae sure the installer is,
indeed, a windows installer, when it is an EXE file. will it update if i
run ninite?

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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: LibreOffice 4.4.o Dev

2014-11-02 Thread V Stuart Foote

Top posting response to PM from Carlos...

HI Carlos,

Usually better to push these exchanges via the mail list -- 
accessibility@global.libreoffice.org.  Please use the Nabble interface for 
convenience: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Accessibility-f2006038.html

AT support issues are not yet correct on the LibreOffice 4.3.3.2 release or the 
4.4.0alpha1 pre-release.  But they are mostly correct on the nightly builds of 
master and should be available for the 4.3.4.2 bug-fix release the week of 
December 15th.  A cycle between F2 and Esc will drop focus back into the 
active Calc sheet.

Meanwhile if you'd care to work against a more functional build and provide 
feedback the Bugzilla report regards focus issues with cells in Calc is 
fdo#81264, found here:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81264

Nightly TinderBox builds of master are available, they can be installed in 
parallel, or if installed these development builds should not otherwise 
interfere with your full install of Apache OpenOffice or LibreOffice

for TB51 production builds
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/Win-x86@51-TDF/current/
or for TB39 debug builds here:
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/Win-x86@39/current/

Stuart
San Antonio, Texas




From: Carlos 
Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 5:17 PM
To: V Stuart Foote
Subject: LibreOffice 4.4.o Dev

Hello!
 I have started to play around with the 4.4.0 version of
LibreOffice.  And, as usual, the spreadsheet is still not accessible to
my screen reader (NVDA).
 Is this issue ever going to bet fixed?
 I just read an article where LibreOffice claims to be better and
more forward thinking than OpenOffice.  As far as I can see, OpenOffice
at least is trying its best to be more accessible!
 LibreOffice seems to be going in the opposite direction!
 I am now very afraid to uninstall LibreOffice for fear that it will
mangle my machine as I already had installed OpenOffice on my machine!
However, this installation of both at the same time has nothing to do
with how LibreOffice spreadsheet not being visible to NVDA or other
screen readers!  This has been an on going issue with LibreOffice since
4.3 series came out!
 So tell your friends at LibreOffice that they will loose support
among the blind community if this is not fixed very soon!!!
 Have a very nice day!

--
Carlos Gonzalez - Los Angeles, CA. - 


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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Libreoffice 4.3 and Calc with NVDA

2014-07-31 Thread V Stuart Foote

David,

David Goldfield wrote
What is very odd is that spreadsheet navigation works perfectly with NVDA
with OpenOffice and I'm under the impression that OO and LO are using the
same Iaccessible2 code.

Wrong assumption, so while the IAccessible2 (v 1.3) and the same native
Windows bridge is used by both projects, the Office components are rapidly
diverging. The LibreOffice Calc spreadsheet in particular has been
completely reworked from the OpenOffice.org era--similar refactoring has not
been done with Apache OpenOffice.

Unfortunately, with this new code base in LibreOffice, the triggering of
underlying accessibility events for cursor movements and accessible object
types have not been correctly done. The shortcomings affect builds for all
OSs.

For Windows users, and indirectly the NVDA project, dumping a Java Runtime
Environment and Java Access Bridge dependency moves things along nicely.

But there is room for improvements both with the Windows IAccessible2 bridge
implementation as well as instrumenting the GUI with AT tool support. It is
not just with Calc, but it currently has some annoying behaviors that need
proper bug reporting and developer attention.

Stuart

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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Removing commands from formatting menu

2014-07-10 Thread V Stuart Foote

Tom,

You missed the point, admittedly subtle.

David was responding to Mirek's request for help with a Design team issue.   
Thank you David, by the way for the offer.

David does not need the aggravation of following the Design or Marketing mail 
lists.

Stuart


From: Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 11:55 AM
To: David Goldfield
Cc: Mirek M.; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Removing commands from formatting menu

Hi :)
I think just registering for the design team's mailing list would be
great.  It might be good to also register with the wider marketing team but
the main one would be the design team.

Errr, to register for the other mailing lists just follow the same process
as you did for registering for this mailing list.
Good luck and regards from
Tom :)



On 10 July 2014 17:29, David Goldfield dgold...@asb.org wrote:

 Mirek,
 I'm not a Libreoffice expert but I'm visually impaired, have access to
 three screen readers and I use NVDA as my screen reader of choice.  I'm an
 assistive technology trainer, having been in the field for over 20 years.
  I'd be honored to assist, if I can.  You can visit my Web site to learn
 more about what I know and what I do, if needed.
 http://www.davidgoldfield.info



 David Goldfield
 Computer Technology Instructor
 Associated Services for the Blind  Visually Impaired
 919 Walnut Street
 4th Floor
 Philadelphia
 PA 19107

 Tel. 215-627-0600 ext 3277
 Fax. 215-922-0692

 mailto:dgold...@asb.org
 http://www.asb.org
 -Original Message-
 From: Mirek M. [mailto:maz...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 12:22 PM
 To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
 Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Removing commands from formatting menu

 Hi guys,
 Michael Meeks mentioned in
 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81132 that context menus have
 a special purpose for a11y. Could anyone here please clue us in as to what
 role they serve and in which scenarios they are used, preferably in a
 comment in the bug report?

 Also, the design team could really use a person knowledgeable in
 LibreOffice's accessibility features and in accessibility problems in
 general. Would anyone here like to help us there?

 --

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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Say all doesn't work with NVDA

2014-06-28 Thread V Stuart Foote

Top posting answer to Aron,

I've noticed the effect on occasion with NVDA 2013.3 and earlier, but seems 
pretty stable on 2014.2  for LibreOffice builds 4.2.0.4 through latest 
development builds of 4.4.0alpha

We will assume that you are using the correct say all --NVDA+DownArrow 
(desktop) or NVDA+a (laptop) as appropriate.

It could be some interaction with styles and focus of the edit cursor on the 
LibreOffice side. But  could  equally be an issue with NVDA and either the 
synth or the parsing into paragraphs.  Sadly, this is one for Mic or Jamie and 
crew.

I just did a quick search on NVAccess site, but did not find a specific 
incident open. You probably should login and open a ticket there with full 
details of your NVDA install and specific Steps to Reproduce the issue. 

Here is the link:
http://community.nvda-project.org/newticket

Refs 
NVDA ticket 1726 -- http://community.nvda-project.org/ticket/1726
NVDA ticket 1311 -- http://community.nvda-project.org/ticket/1311
NVDA ticket 149 -- http://community.nvda-project.org/ticket/149

If you do open an NVDA ticket, please post back with it.

Regards,

Stuart

From: Aron Ocsvari oa...@nvda.hu
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 9:38 AM
To: 'accessibility@global.libreoffice.org'
Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Say all doesn't work with NVDA

Hello,
I installed the latest LibreOffice (4.3.0), and I tried it out with
NVDA. It works well, but when I try to read a text with the say all
function, NVDA doesn't read the text. I open a doc file with Writer.
Is it an NVDA, or a LibreOffice bug?
Regards,
Aron

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Using LibreOffice 4.2.5 with Screen Readers

2014-06-20 Thread V Stuart Foote

David,

Seem like post install, you have neither enabled JAB based AT, nor
IAccessible2 support.

While we'd pushed for it, IAccessible2 as outright replacement for JAB did
not make the 4.2 release. It did make it for the 4.3 branch release.

At this point, I would suggest you simply skip the 4.2.5 release and instead
look at the pending 4.3.0 release build where the Java Access Bridge AT
support has been removed so that on the Windows builds only IAccessible2
support is present.

Also, now for Windows--as already for OSX and Linux--LibreOffice AT is
activated by default when an Assistive Technology is in use--no more fussing
during install or with Tools - Accessibility.

Here are direct links to LibreOffice RC1 of 4.3.0:

http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/win/x86/LibreOffice_4.3.0.1_Win_x86.msi

and to the local en-US help files :

http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/win/x86/LibreOffice_4.3.0.1_Win_x86_helppack_en-US.msi

this is a full installer so will replace any existing builds of LibreOffice.
Other than some lingering chattiness, and focus issues in the Calc -- should
be useable.

Stuart

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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] A11y status of libreoffice

2014-03-01 Thread V Stuart Foote

@Jean-Phillippe,

For the 4.2 release, the LibreOffice ESC elected to keep support of  JRE Java 
Accessibility API using the Java Access Bridge.

The IAccessible2 based Assistive Technology support is activated from Tools -- 
Options -- Advanced Optional (unstable) options  'Enable experimental 
features' check box.  Navigate to that panel and check the box, then restart 
LibreOffice.

When it comes back up it will be running with IAccessible2 enabled AT support. 

The next LibreOffice release, 4.3 --and the current 'master' builds-- have 
already removed support for Java accessibility bridge based AT support, as has 
been done for the Apache OpenOffice project for their upcomming AOO 4.1 release.

The IAccessible2 AT will interact with current JAWS or NVDA screen reader 
support.   WindowEyes 8.4 does not render either projects use of  IAccessible2 
correctly.

Stuart



From: MENGUAL Jean-Philippe mengualjean...@free.fr
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 8:35 PM
To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] A11y status of libreoffice

Hi,

New info arrive to me about libreoffice accessibility, but they are
confusing and my tests are not relevant. So I'd like you to make a point
for me about accessibipty in libreoffice 4.2. Does it need Java Access
Bridge? I had understood no, but without it, I cannot access to the
menubar and interact with Writer.

Does it work with Jaws? And NVDA? Is there a mandatory checkbox in
Options menu? Does it make LibreOffice accessible without Java Access
Bridge?

Thanp for all your answers.

Regards,
--
Jean-Philippe MENGUAL


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FW: [NVDA] Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Libo 4.0.5 and Accessibility/Follow-up

2014-02-27 Thread V Stuart Foote

@Kevin,

Glad you got it sorted, not the first time I've forgotten to ask about any 
changes in AntiMalware posture.

Some AV solutions are more agressive than others at monitoring and 
preventing changes.  Last major go round was with the offerings from Avast 
AVG, guess the Internet Security 360 goes into that same category.

Stuart


From: nvda-bou...@freelists.org nvda-bou...@freelists.org on behalf of Kevin 
Cussick 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014 3:12 PM

thanks,  OK I have a new av program internet security 360 once I stopped
it running from task manager the install went fine.  I tried just
switching off the real protection but it still wouldn't install!   so it
looks like for now if I want to update I have to switch it off.  I only
found this out because I ran both installers with defender,  on another
machine it worked I have not had any problems installing for a long time
now.   but because there snaps I assumed maybe there was a new problem
but for now I have got it working. on the other machine with defender it
just worked without any problems.  I didn't see  any prompt from the av
program to let the program threw it just didn't install, but as soon as
I closed all the processes down to do with this av program it ran the
installers and installed. anyway sorted for now trying to contact them
later and let them know that the av prog doesn't seem to lie lo or ooo
for now.


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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Changes in the LO 4.3-dev start screen, intentilnal or bug?

2014-02-19 Thread V Stuart Foote

@Marco,

Marco Zehe wrote
 While testing the latest 4.3-dev build for a change related to bug
 74284, I noticed that the following Option pane from LibreOffice 4.2.0
 is no longer present in LibreOffice 4.3.0-dev, even from before the
 mentioned commit:
 
 Developer info for navigator object:
 name: u''
 role: ROLE_OPTIONPANE
 states:
 isFocusable: False
 hasFocus: False
 ...

So think it was agreed that this issue is a manifestation of   bug 75151
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=75151  .

But a silly NVDA debug question,  how were you able to land on this object?
When I open a version of LibreOffice (4.2.x or 4.3.0dev) the NVDA + F1 shows
that navigator object as the focused 'OpenFile'  ROLE_BUTTON.  Were you
using a NVDA dev plug-in, or can one advance/reverse the stack of navigator
objects in NVDA?

Stuart



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] LibreOffice 4.2 and Window-eyes 8.4

2014-01-31 Thread V Stuart Foote

David responded back in PM that he had the Final release of 4.2.0 with Build
ID: 05dceb5d363845f2cf968344d7adab8dcfb2ba71

So looks to be an issue.   Will try to obtain a copy of Windows Eyes to test
with and see if I can debug.





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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] High contrast bug?

2014-01-16 Thread V Stuart Foote

This A11Y accessibility  issue was already open as  bug 71511
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71511  .



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Improvements to Mac Accessibility

2013-08-04 Thread V Stuart Foote

Yes, indeed! 

A great welcome to Boris Dušek who has dived in and is unwinding some of the
long standing NSAccessibility bridge issues supporting the OSX builds.

Stuart






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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: LibreOffice 4.1.0 RC1 test builds available

2013-06-21 Thread V Stuart Foote

V Stuart Foote wrote
 2) the resulting Microsoft Installer package sets a configuration varaible
 WRITEREGISTRY to true, and that results in program details being recorded
 into the Windows Registry database, overwriting any existing settings.

Sorry the correct msiexec.exe  command line varaible is WRITE_REGISTRY not
WRITEREGISTRY.

So set:

WRITE_REGISTRY=1  -- to write installation into Windows Registry;

or

WRITE_REGISTRY=0 -- for no Windows Registry changes pushed from installer




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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] LibreOffice writer crash - accessibility-related?

2013-05-08 Thread V Stuart Foote

Jason,

Are you able to submit a Bugzilla report with full details of your system?

I don't know if it specific an Accessibility  related to Orca use, or recent
work on  GTK+ in general. I will try to test from a Fedora GNOME 3 DE with
ORCA running to see if I am similarly affected. But someone with Debian load
might be closer to your environment.

An OpenGrok search for the focus - out - event error hinted to two
potential areas, I did not check specific commit dates but all three source
files have had recent code work and might be involved.

 /core/vcl/unx/gtk/a11y/
atkwindow.cxx   216 g_signal_connect_after( GTK_WIDGET( data ),
focus-out-event,
 
 /core/vcl/unx/gtk/window/
gtkobject.cxx   71 g_signal_connect( G_OBJECT(m_pSocket), focus-out-event,
G_CALLBACK(signalFocus), this );
gtksalframe.cxx 798 g_signal_connect( G_OBJECT(m_pWindow),
focus-out-event, G_CALLBACK(signalFocus), this );

If you do open a bug report, simply post its number here and we should move
discussion to the bug.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-accessibility] Possilbe UNO Accessibility API - Java Access Bridge issue in current build of Master while using NVDA for AT

2013-04-18 Thread V Stuart Foote

On Windows 7 SP1 64-bit
JRE 1.6.45
JAB 2.0.2

Bumped into a an issue with Java Access Bridge and LibreOffice today's Master 
daily build.

When running the NVDA 2012.3.1 AT screen reader, a long stable test document is 
crashing LibreOffice 4.1 alpha from Master when accessed with NVDA AT in use.  
Without NVDA AT active, the document opens fully in todays daily build.

Without NVDA AT activated, the JavaFerret and JavaMonkey utilities both show 
the document opening correctly with today's LibreOffice build of Master.   And 
on the same system, earlier builds of Master, 4.0.3.1 and 4.0.2.2 opened and 
continue to open while NVDA is in use.

Have opened an issue with NVAccess  against NVDA 2012.3.1 ( 
http://community.nvda-project.org/ticket/3170 ) but suspect it could be recent 
Java work in LibreOffice--Java Ferret/Java Monkey less sensitive to whatever 
the issue is.

Test document opens with these builds of LibreOffice while NVDA is active
LibreOffice_4.0.2_Win_x86.msi
LibreOffice_4.0.3.1_Win_x86.msi (administrative install)
master~2013-03-22_21.36.46_LibreOfficeDev_4.1.0.0.alpha0_Win_x86.msi 
(administrative install)

Does not ope With NVDA AT active with an administrative install of todays:
master~2013-04-18_04.00.51_LibreOfficeDev_4.1.0.0.alpha0_Win_x86.msi

NVDA logging shows error: 
gainFocus on NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableTextWithoutAutoSelectDetectionJAB 
object at 0x06028C90 with extra args of {} 

Suggests there may be a recent change in what LibreOffice is exposing via UAA 
and the JAB.

Holding off on a FDO bug for now to allow NV Access devs a chance to look at 
what is faulting on the JAB events.

Stuart

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RE: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [libreoffice-accessibility] keyboard accessibility of new template manager - fdo#61390

2013-03-08 Thread V Stuart Foote

From: Markus Mohrhard [markus.mohrh...@googlemail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 3:13 AM

Thanks a lot for your effort rising awareness of these problems. If
you think it is a general problem that we are not paying enough
attention on accessibility support in new dialogs it would be nice if
you could give us some examples so that we can discuss how we can
improve our workflow in the future.

Markus,

I will try to do exactly that and find an appropriate spot on the Wiki to 
clarify design and development requirements for support of Assistive 
Technologies and accessibility, probably with some linkage to standards work of 
the cognizant organizations.

In the meanwhile, testing and understanding requirements for including 
accessibility is well within the grasp of ANY developer or user of 
LibreOffice--we just don't think about it.

Here is my simple guide--and I am not being flippant--this is a reasonable 
demonstration.
 
So, if on a GNOME Linux, activate ORCA, on Windows JAWS or NVDA, on OSX 
VoiceOver--then launch LibreOffice.

Now close your eyes (or put on a blind fold) and try to write a document--I 
won't suggest a spreadsheet, or presentation, or even an illustration although 
why not?

How does that work for you? Is the new Template Manager effective?

If we are meeting our responsibilities as supporters of 
LibreOffice--developers, designers, QA, even users--we should be equally 
effective working with the Assistive Technologies support exposed with UNO 
Accessibility API as with moving a cursor with a mouse.  Anything less and we 
are not meeting our responsibilities. If the GUI can not be made to talk, and 
does not follow reasonable hierarchical structures AT support falters. 

Put another way, if we can not drive the interface without peeking, how is 
someone who does not have that option to cope?  

Additionally, think of the challenge if you can not point with a mouse or type 
on the keyboard, are we helping those users.

Stuart

Cross posting to the devs, and accessibility lists, so apologize now to all who 
receive multiple copies of this post. And again this is not intended to be 
flippant response, I am simply asking folks to consider accessibility aspect of 
their individual design and development efforts.




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[libreoffice-accessibility] keyboard accessibility of new template manager - fdo#61390

2013-03-01 Thread V Stuart Foote

This has been filed as LibreOffice bug fdo#61390 - 
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61390 and the DEVs of template 
manager notified. 
 
Stuart


From: ktc [r...@c-net.us]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 9:38 AM
To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] keyboard accessibility of new template 
manager

Is it on anyone's radar to make the LO 4.x template manager keyboard
accessible?

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] bug 50926

2013-02-26 Thread V Stuart Foote

fdo bug 50926 and  bug 56031
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56031   have been patched. 

Unfortunately, not quite in time for the pending 4.0.1 release.

The patched version currently available for verification and early use in
current Tinderbox builds of Master and 4.0.2--otherwise will be included in
the 4.0.2 RC builds and final release scheduled about April 1st.



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] LibreOffice accessibility wish list

2013-02-03 Thread V Stuart Foote

Fernando,

Great idea and yes there needs to be some rational prioritization of what
work on Accessibility and AT gets done either by volunteer efforts or
through grant and contract funding.

But, I think that it is daunting to look at a listing of Bugzilla reporting
and cull out what are the most substantive issues that need to be addressed. 
For example, most of your list of priorities are Linux hosted GNOME Orca
screen reader issues. All valid, but in point of fact quality of Windows
Accessibility and AT support is a much greter short fall for LibreOffice
users.

There are three metabug trackers of Accessibility issues, organized by OS:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36549 for Linux GNOME Orca and
AT-SPI2/ATK
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55571 for Apple OSX Apple
Accessibility API
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60251 for Windows OS
Accessibility and the JAVA Access Bridge, which I've just created.

Folks should review these and please submit known issues as new bugs or
enhancement requests.

Stuart






 



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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Funding Priorities List update and need help

2013-01-30 Thread V Stuart Foote

Tom, and other Accessibility advocates...

Thanks, but I view my personal role as QA and have really only had to focus on 
the Windows  Java Accessibility Bridge side because of the exceptional QA and 
development work being done by Roman Eisele with the OSX Apple Accessibility 
API, and by Joanmarie Diggs on the Linux A11y AT-SPI  ATK support delivered 
via Gnome ORCA. 

In truth changes are needed with the underlying UNO Accessibility API (a 
derivative of an old Java design) to incorporate ongoing work of the A11y 
group, Microsoft, Apple and Google and to ensure that LibreOffice assistive 
technologies span all the development platforms with a consistent API that 
integrates with all LibreOffice components and implements accessibility roles 
needed by a broader range of AT.

This might be handled by a Community Development person, but the scope of a 
reengineering of the the underlying UNO Accessibility API suggests this will 
need the administrative resources of a full committee of developers and AT 
interface designers overseen by the TDF board.  

The TDF board can't raise enough funds to pay to have this done, so the 
challenge is making the case that the future of accessibility support for 
LibreOffice does not lay with the status quo, that waiting for IAccessibile2 
from the IBM Symphony contribution is only a Band-Aid, and that a substantive 
redesign of the internal API implementing more AT roles while accommodating a 
wider range of external interfaces better positions all LibreOffice products as 
fully accessible.

If the TDF is going to spend any money. Suggest pay to prepare statement of 
preliminary requirements and AT design goals describing what currently exists, 
while identifying what roles and functions are missing from the core UNO 
Accessibility API for full support of the external accessibility APIs.  That 
would be money well spent on AT and give the developers and GUI designers a 
solid starting point.

Stuart

___
From: Tom Davies [tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:05 AM
To: Marc Paré; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re:
Funding Priorities List update and need help

Hi :)
This is exactly why i think the Accessibility Team really needs a Community 
Development person to be employed either directly by TDF or by one of the 
supporter organisations and then loaned to TDF.  Part-time, even just 2 days a 
week would be a huge boost.

We need more people in this team and need them to be more active.  At the 
moment it feels like it's only due to Stuart that anyone is doing anything and 
most of that work seems to be being done directly by him.  I think that if the 
post was created then it would be good to give Stuart an interview for the 
position.
Regards from
Tom :)






 From: Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com
To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Saturday, 19 January 2013, 3:57
Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Funding 
Priorities List update and need help

Hi Tom,

Le 2013-01-17 05:46, Tom Davies a écrit :
 Hi :)
 I wondered if anyone here is interested in putting forwards ideas for where 
 money should be targeted to improve accessibility.  No-one on this list 
 backed my ideas so i couldn't put them forwards.  Is everyone happy with 
 accessibility in LibreOffice?  Is it all working perfectly all the time?

 Regards from
 Tom :)


Be aware that Florian has stated that a funding suggestion needs to be backed 
by someone who will assume leadership/responsibility for any request from 
start to end. IMO, there should also be a clear accessibility team, which 
could just be 2-3 people who make it a point to advance accessibility issues.

For example, you could have accessibility bugs sent to this list and help QA 
with bug quashing -- some of this is easy to do such as confirming that the 
bugs do happen on other people's boxes and OS's OR helping test out possible 
fixes to the bugs etc. We do this with the Website list and it has been quite 
the success.

Sometimes when people see positive movement in a group it will inspire others 
to follow and to help out.

As you know accessibility is quite important in getting LibreOffice accepted 
in large institutional settings (educational/governments etc.). I am sure that 
the TDF would be interested in getting proposals from the accessibility team 
and helping out.

Cheers,

Marc


-- Marc Paré
m...@marcpare.com
http://www.parEntreprise.com
parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org




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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

2013-01-03 Thread V Stuart Foote

Submitted fdo#58995 -- https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58995 –

Apparent changes in Java SE JRE 1.7 are impacting fidelity of Java Access
Bridge (JAB) v2.0.3 delivered UNO Accessibility API roles for AT users on
Windows OS.
 
The JREs 1.7  u6 are activating the JAB, and do provide AT some support via
the Java Accessibility API. However, the fidelity of that support for Java
based AT is notably degraded compared to identical hardware with JRE 1.6 and
JAB v2.0.2--all else being equal--and running the same applications.





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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

2012-12-29 Thread V Stuart Foote

Simon,

There appears to be a change in the JRE 1.7 and JAB 2.0.3 that is reducing
the fidelity of the Java Accessibility API rendering of both LibreOffice and
OpenOffice.  This is affecting both NVDA and Jaws screen readers.

I've been unable to find any Oracle documentation on API changes from the
2.02 to 2.03  JAB or JAAPI, but something is definitely changed.  Reviewing
the JAB delivered document structure with JavaMonkey shows the 2.02
rendering to be identical with the 2.0.3 rendering--but with JRE 1.7 its
JAAPI appears to process the result differently and does not fully render
the results in either screen reader.

Are you able to roll back to JRE 1.6 and a JAB 2.0.2 installation  and
retest the issues you've had with LibreOffice 3.6.4? And otherwise asses AT
usability with the earlier Java runtimes?

Downloads needed to roll back are here:

JRE 1.6u38
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre6u38-downloads-1877409.html
  
JWin.exe installer for JAB 2.0.2 http://empowermentzone.com/JWin_setup.exe  


Stuart






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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

2012-12-29 Thread V Stuart Foote

Tom,

Probably, I'm pretty certain this issue has actually been with us since the 
Java JRE 1.6 - JRE 1.7 crossover. It impacts usability with AT because large 
segments of the GUI are no longer functional with screen and brail readers 
under JRE 1.7's Java Accessibility API even though the JAB is appears to be 
delivering identical roles and obejcts.

For now, rolling back to a JRE 1.6 and its more functional JAAPI may be the 
best suggestion for LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice users in need of AT.  The 
Java dependency may eventually be dropped, depending on where things go with 
BASE and HSQLDB and implementing a non-Java accessibility bridge based AT for 
Windows, i.e.an IAccessible2 implementation or possibly an AT-SPI2 port.

Question beside the workaround of using a JRE 1.6, is if there is much 
developer and TDF Board desire to repair AT and possibly BASE for use with JRE 
1.7 and a more current HSQLDB build.

Stuart


From: Tom Davies [tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:45 AM
To: us...@global.libreoffice.org
Cc: V Stuart Foote
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

Hi :)
Should the devs be made aware of problems with the newer release of Java 
(again)?

Each new release of Java creates more problems and each is soon found to have 
more security issues so another new one needs to be released quickly.  It's a 
3rd party product that is difficult to track.

Regards from
Tom :)


From: V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu
To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 16:13
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

Simon,

There appears to be a change in the JRE 1.7 and JAB 2.0.3 that is reducing
the fidelity of the Java Accessibility API rendering of both LibreOffice and
OpenOffice.  This is affecting both NVDA and Jaws screen readers.

I've been unable to find any Oracle documentation on API changes from the
2.02 to 2.03  JAB or JAAPI, but something is definitely changed.  Reviewing
the JAB delivered document structure with JavaMonkey shows the 2.02
rendering to be identical with the 2.0.3 rendering--but with JRE 1.7 its
JAAPI appears to process the result differently and does not fully render
the results in either screen reader.

Are you able to roll back to JRE 1.6 and a JAB 2.0.2 installation  and
retest the issues you've had with LibreOffice 3.6.4? And otherwise asses AT
usability with the earlier Java runtimes?

Downloads needed to roll back are here:

JRE 1.6u38
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre6u38-downloads-1877409.html
JWin.exe installer for JAB 2.0.2 http://empowermentzone.com/JWin_setup.exe


Stuart






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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest LibreOffice and Java access Bridge

2012-12-06 Thread V Stuart Foote

David,

Yes the dev's have restored ( ref fdo#53474
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53474  ) Java Access Bridge
support between UNO Accessibility API and Java Accessibility. Unfortunately
the Support assistive technology check box during installation ( fdo#39833
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39833  ) is not having the
desired result of fully enabling AT on initial launch.

The actual changes made by selecting the check box are a bit convoluted and
have to do with setting a Windows Environment Variable in the Windows
Registry that is then supposed to flag creation of the EnableATToolSupport
accessibility stanza in each users LibreOffice profile registry
file--registrymodification.xcu

I believe the problem is that on first launch, the JRE is not fully
specified and so the accessibility stanza is not added to the registry. 
Also, even with JAB activated and accessibility roles exposed, as verified
with JavaMonkey/JavaFerret, NVDA 2012.2.1 and 2012.3 have had problems
entering a LibreOffice document--requiring restart of NVDA.

I've added this exchange to the fdo#39833 Bugzilla report.

In the meanwhile--the old standby of adding a Windows Registry value for the
HKEY_CURRENT_USER will insert the correct stanza into each users LibreOffice
profile registry.

Copy the below text into a new file and name it with a .REG extension.  The
batch file will insert the correct value in the Windows Registry for each
user who runs it.

Stuart

--snip---
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\LibreOffice\Accessibility\AtToolSupport]
SupportAssistiveTechnology=true
---snip---




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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest LibreOffice and Java access Bridge

2012-12-06 Thread V Stuart Foote

Should have included a second Bugzilla report (  fdo#56704
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56704  ) that is related.



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RE: off-list wb!! Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest LibreOffice and Java access Bridge

2012-12-06 Thread V Stuart Foote

Tom,

Hi. Haven't gone anywhere. Just not much to correspond about.  I've been 
lurking over on Apache OpenOffice lists which are struggling to bring together 
devs, qa and infrastructure with their graduation.

Unfortunately, the winaccessibility IAccessible2 implementation of the IBM 
Symphony contribution (or the rest of Symphony base line) did not get picked up 
for inclusion in the current development effort. So it has NOT been released as 
open source and the responsible IBM devs are working on their contributions in 
house. That is bad for LibreOffice because there has been some reluctance to 
start from scratch on building a native bridge for Windows OS implementing 
IAccessible2 - UNO Accessibility API anticipating the IBM contribution would 
be released near term.

So, we'll either have to  continue to wait. Or one of our LibreOffice 
developers would need to take an interest and use either the NSAccessibility 
(OSX) or AT/ATK (Linux  GNOME) bridge as a model to expose the UNO 
Accessibility API roles as IAccessible2 for the Windows builds.

But, what really should happen is that the UNO Accessibility API should be 
scrubbed for additional functionality--adjusting the NSAccessibility and AT/ATK 
bridges accordingly--and a new Windows bridge conceived. It could be 
IAccessible2/MSAA based or even Microsoft UIAutomation/IAccessibleEx based.  
Point is that the base line UNO Accessibility API does need some additional 
work. And since it is the framework for ALL LibreOffice Accessibility the 
development could be spread across a broader pool of developers and done 
correctly.

Stuart


From: Tom Davies [tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 11:29 AM
To: V Stuart Foote
Subject: off-list wb!! Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest LibreOffice and 
Java access Bridge

Hi :)

Great to find you on the list again!  Also good about the positive news but the 
main thing is finding a new post from you chap.  Hopefully a few other people 
might start posting again now if i haven't scared them off again already.
Regards from
Tom  :)


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RE: off-list wb!! Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest LibreOffice and Java access Bridge

2012-12-06 Thread V Stuart Foote

From: Christophe Strobbe [mailto:stro...@hdm-stuttgart.de] 

Am Do, 6.12.2012, 19:18 schrieb V Stuart Foote:
 Unfortunately, the winaccessibility IAccessible2 implementation of the 
 IBM Symphony contribution (or the rest of Symphony base line) did not 
 get picked up for inclusion in the current development effort. So it 
 has NOT been released as open source and the responsible IBM devs are 
 working on their contributions in house.

What do you mean by not been releases as open source? I thought the
IAccessible2 code had been sitting in the Child Work Spaces:
http://hg.services.openoffice.org/.

IBM would not remove their copyright and proprietary headers on the code posted 
as the Symphony contribution branch during incubator status. So never really 
released, and some might argue never really contributed.


 But, what really should happen is that the UNO Accessibility API 
 should be scrubbed for additional functionality--adjusting the 
 NSAccessibility and AT/ATK bridges accordingly--and a new Windows 
 bridge conceived. It could be IAccessible2/MSAA based or even 
 Microsoft UIAutomation/IAccessibleEx based.

Creating a bridge to UIAutomation would mean developing that from scratch, 
unlike integrating the IAccessible2 code...
 
Exactly! But since there are continuing issues with the UNO Accessibility API, 
taking time no for reworking it (fixing short falls for NSAccessibility and 
AT/ATK) while conceiving and implementing a replacement Windows bridge (not 
using IBMs IAccessible2 contribution when/if it finally is made) should 
result in better AT support across all platforms.

Stuart
=-=-=
V Stuart Foote
LibreOffice QA volunteer - a11y  Apache OpenOffice QA volunteer - a11y
Systems Analyst
Geological Sciences
The University of Texas at San Antonio

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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java Accessibility restored to LOdev 3.6 development builds, on hold for LibO 3.6.4

2012-10-28 Thread V Stuart Foote

Kevin,
 
You are correct that the average user should not have to deal with the minutia 
of configuration details needed to make programs functional.  But this is 
developmental code that requires testing--so entails a level of mastery of 
system and application configuration that goes beyond the skills of the average 
user.  
 
Clearly you have that or you would not even be attempting this.
 
As you know, the Java Access Bridge configurations have been especially 
troublesome. Jamal Mazrui prepared the JWin installer package for Java Access 
Bridge v2.0.2 using Inno installation scripting.  It works well, especially for 
a new installation.  But with the inclusion of the Java Access Bridge v2.0.3 
with JRE 1.7 builds from update 6 forward, the JWin  scripted installation no 
longer correctly functions. JWin has to be uninstalled, and the JRE 1.6 
installations should be removed, and the environment variables--JAVA_HOME, PATH 
and possibly CLASSPATH--edited to remove any Java references,  and set 
everything normal.
 
With the uninstall complete, the registry keys 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft and HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JreMetrics 
should be deleted. On 64-bit systems those keys are 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\JavaSoft and JreMetrics.
 
Then following reboot, and with no JRE on the system, download and install as 
Administrator only the  offline JRE 1.7u9 for  Windows x86 Offline from 
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre7u9-downloads-1859586.html
 
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre7u9-downloads-1859586.html
 , there is a radio button to Accept License Agreement to be toggled from 
another to Decline License Agreement before the download link Windows x86 
Offline - jre7u9-windows-i586.exe becomes active.
 
Now reestablish the JAVA_HOME variable, and insert ;%JAVA_HOME%\bin into the 
PATH variable. 
 
And if you'd run LibreOffice 3.5.7 or LOdev 3.6 or Apache OpenOffice 3.4.1 you 
should find and delete the javasettings_Windows_x86.xml configuration files and 
delete them--they'll be rebuild with defaults against the PATH and JAVA_HOME 
variable just established.
 
Or, the alternative is the delete the whole per user configuration folders in  
Win7 or Vista at  C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\LibreOffice or LOdev or 
OpenOffice.org respectively and let it rebuild, but you will need to navigate 
the Tools - Options - Java and Tools - Options - Accessibility panels to 
reenable Java and Assistive Technologies.  A little tough to do because these 
configuration frames do not enable accessibility for their radio button and 
check boxes beyond what Microsoft MSAA or UI provides. If you can get someone 
to look over your shoulder- for just a moment-you'll have a much better go at 
it.
 
Stuart
 
 



From: Kevin Cussick [mailto:the.big.white.sheph...@googlemail.com]
Sent: Thu 9/27/2012 4:15 PM
To: V Stuart Foote
Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java Accessibility restored to LOdev 
3.6 development builds, on hold for LibO 3.6.4



Hi,

OK I downloaded the latest dev version I will get the version number and
  installed making sure the jab switch was enabled under  the ease of
access center under the use the computer without a display, the box use
the access bridge is checked. to cut the story short lo still dose not
work! disappointing. I will give you the latest version now stand
buy.libreoffice-3-6~2012-10-25_19.15.46_LibO-Dev_3.6.4.0_Win_x86_install_en-US.msi
I don't really understand about the environment I see under the
properties of the computer there is an advanced system settings I see 2
entry 1 is 1 I created my self the path reads like this copied from the
computer CLASSPATH; Value: C:\program files\java\jre7\\bin   the second
one reads like this maybe this what is wrong and I will get it stand
buy, Java; Value: C:\Program Files\Java\jre7 I am a bit new to this and
I really don't think it should be expected that the average computer
user should have to muck about with this to get it working but I would
never the less appreciate some help with these two paths and maybe this
is why it doesn't work with thanks as always.

On 26/10/2012 22:45, V Stuart Foote wrote:
 The developers have resolved the LibO source code issue for Assistive
 Technologies for  Windows builds  using Java Accessibility API and the Java
 Access Bridge mappings.

 Unfortunately, not quite in time for the LibO 3.6.3 release that is now
 building from the rc2 code base for a publish target Oct 29 - Nov 4th.

 The fix WILL be in place for the LibO 3.6.4 builds due for publishing the
 week of Dec 3 - 9.

 In the interim, LibO 3.5.7  Accessibility for Windows users is intact.

 Or,  for the intrepid willing to work with the -LOdev-3-6 developmental
 code, daily builds of the  -3-6 Windows branch are available at this link:

 http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/Win-x86_9

RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java Accessibility restored to LOdev3.6 development builds, on hold for LibO 3.6.4

2012-10-28 Thread V Stuart Foote

Kevin,
 
Sorry, also meant to say that if you are on a 32-bit Windows, your JAVA 
underscore HOME variable set to a value of C:\Program Files\Java\jre7 is 
correct. 
 
The CLASSPATH is not strictly needed as the .DLL files in the \bin directory 
should resolve things correctly, but if set they need to be correct.
 
You listed CLASSPATH setting has an extra backslash. And also rather than the 
setting CLASSPATH to  \bin it should probably be to the lib\ext directory, e.g. 
 CLASSPATH= C:\Program Files\Java\jre7\lib\ext as this is where the 
access-bridge.jar and jaccess.jar program archives reside as JAR files.
 
If on 64-bit Windows, the path for JAVA_HOME=  would be C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Java\jre7, and the entry in the PATH would be ;%JAVA_HOME%\bin  
Similar adjustment for CLASSPATH if you define that.
 
 
Stuart



From: V Stuart Foote [mailto:vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu]
Sent: Sun 10/28/2012 5:19 PM
To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java Accessibility restored to 
LOdev3.6 development builds, on hold for LibO 3.6.4



Kevin,

You are correct that the average user should not have to deal with the minutia 
of configuration details needed to make programs functional.  But this is 
developmental code that requires testing--so entails a level of mastery of 
system and application configuration that goes beyond the skills of the average 
user. 

Clearly you have that or you would not even be attempting this.

As you know, the Java Access Bridge configurations have been especially 
troublesome. Jamal Mazrui prepared the JWin installer package for Java Access 
Bridge v2.0.2 using Inno installation scripting.  It works well, especially for 
a new installation.  But with the inclusion of the Java Access Bridge v2.0.3 
with JRE 1.7 builds from update 6 forward, the JWin  scripted installation no 
longer correctly functions. JWin has to be uninstalled, and the JRE 1.6 
installations should be removed, and the environment variables--JAVA_HOME, PATH 
and possibly CLASSPATH--edited to remove any Java references,  and set 
everything normal.

With the uninstall complete, the registry keys 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft and HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JreMetrics 
should be deleted. On 64-bit systems those keys are 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\JavaSoft and JreMetrics.

Then following reboot, and with no JRE on the system, download and install as 
Administrator only the  offline JRE 1.7u9 for  Windows x86 Offline from 
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre7u9-downloads-1859586.html
 
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre7u9-downloads-1859586.html
 , there is a radio button to Accept License Agreement to be toggled from 
another to Decline License Agreement before the download link Windows x86 
Offline - jre7u9-windows-i586.exe becomes active.

Now reestablish the JAVA_HOME variable, and insert ;%JAVA_HOME%\bin into the 
PATH variable.

And if you'd run LibreOffice 3.5.7 or LOdev 3.6 or Apache OpenOffice 3.4.1 you 
should find and delete the javasettings_Windows_x86.xml configuration files and 
delete them--they'll be rebuild with defaults against the PATH and JAVA_HOME 
variable just established.

Or, the alternative is the delete the whole per user configuration folders in  
Win7 or Vista at  C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\LibreOffice or LOdev or 
OpenOffice.org respectively and let it rebuild, but you will need to navigate 
the Tools - Options - Java and Tools - Options - Accessibility panels to 
reenable Java and Assistive Technologies.  A little tough to do because these 
configuration frames do not enable accessibility for their radio button and 
check boxes beyond what Microsoft MSAA or UI provides. If you can get someone 
to look over your shoulder- for just a moment-you'll have a much better go at 
it.

Stuart





From: Kevin Cussick [mailto:the.big.white.sheph...@googlemail.com]
Sent: Thu 9/27/2012 4:15 PM
To: V Stuart Foote
Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java Accessibility restored to LOdev 
3.6 development builds, on hold for LibO 3.6.4



Hi,

OK I downloaded the latest dev version I will get the version number and
  installed making sure the jab switch was enabled under  the ease of
access center under the use the computer without a display, the box use
the access bridge is checked. to cut the story short lo still dose not
work! disappointing. I will give you the latest version now stand
buy.libreoffice-3-6~2012-10-25_19.15.46_LibO-Dev_3.6.4.0_Win_x86_install_en-US.msi
I don't really understand about the environment I see under the
properties of the computer there is an advanced system settings I see 2
entry 1 is 1 I created my self the path reads like this copied from the
computer CLASSPATH; Value: C:\program files\java\jre7\\bin   the second
one reads like this maybe this what

RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java Accessibility restored to LOdev3.6 development builds, on hold for LibO 3.6.4

2012-10-28 Thread V Stuart Foote

Sorry,

Actually, that CLASSPATH, if set, would more correctly be:

CLASSPATH = .;C:\Program Files\Java\jre7\lib\ext 

The initial default path for user class objects should be the  current
directory, so it  requires  the preceding  period in .; when it is
defined.

Details for the curious at
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/tools/windows/classpath.html

Stuart



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[libreoffice-accessibility] Java Accessibility restored to LOdev 3.6 development builds, on hold for LibO 3.6.4

2012-10-26 Thread V Stuart Foote

The developers have resolved the LibO source code issue for Assistive
Technologies for Windows builds using Java Accessibility API and the Java
Access Bridge mappings.

Unfortunately, not quite in time for the LibO 3.6.3 release that is now
building from the rc2 code base for a publish target Oct 29 - Nov 4th.

The fix WILL be in place for the LibO 3.6.4 builds due for publishing the
week of Dec 3 - 9.

In the interim, LibO 3.5.7 Accessibility for Windows users is intact.

Or, for the intrepid willing to work with the -LOdev-3-6 developmental
code, daily builds of the -3-6 Windows branch are available at this link:

http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/Win-x86_9-Voreppe/libreoffice-3-6/

It is limited to language support for English, French and Spanish and lacks
a few of the extensions but is otherwise pretty stable.

But if you are really adventuresome , the Developers are always looking for
folks willing to test and report on the current builds of the master
developmental code. The daily builds systems for Windows (each a TinderBox)
are a little erratic, for example waiting on a sucessful build of the
current master code to test accessibility in LOdev 3.7, but the Devs get
that sorted out pretty quickly. And they do appreciate getting earlier
feedback.

Here is the link to the daily TinderBox builds of master
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/where forWindows build of
LOdev 3.7 you'll want TinderBox 6 Win-x86@6 (MSVC)
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/Win-x86@6/ or TinderBox 7
Win-x86@7-MinGW (MinGW)
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/Win-x86@7-MinGW/ .

The build time is the folder name, you'll want to download the latest and if
a site is really old, it means there were build problems with that
server--for example the two TinderBoxes 6 7 are both very stale due to an
error in the build system that is being worked on.

All agree that catching the problem with lack Java Accessibility support
should not have made it past the first release of the LibO 3.6 branch!
Having more users comfortable with working with the developmental builds
will help a lot when the call comes for testing.

Please do help.

Stuart

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Reality Check - Windows Java Accessibility API non-functional for ALL LibreOffice 3.6.x releases to date

2012-10-25 Thread V Stuart Foote

Developers identified a major component of the Java Accessibility - JAB code
that got dropped during restructuring of source build process.  A patch for 
fdo#53474 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53474   is being
tested and will for certain be included the 3.6.4 release. 

I have asked that it be back ported into the LibO 3.6.3 build with creation
of an additional release candidate rc3 build. Don't know yet if that will
take as it could break the Oct 29 - Nov 4  release target.

Meanwhile, the LibO 3.5.7 build should be fully functional (as far as Java
Accessibility  JAB role mappings allow) for users in need of Assistive
Technology.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-accessibility] Reality Check - Windows Java Accessibility API non-functional for ALL LibreOffice 3.6.x releases to date

2012-10-14 Thread V Stuart Foote

LibreOffice versions 3.6.0 and later have not correctly implemented the Java 
Access Bridge (JAB) modules used to expose the Java Accessibility API roles for 
Windows users.
 
It took me a little while to work out the testing methods, but the Oracle test 
utilities JavaFerret-32 and JavaMonkey-32 show that LibreOffice is not 
implementing the Java Accessibility API and therefore does not expose 
accessibility roles to Assistive Technologies.
 
Neither JAB v.2.0.2 or v 2.0.3, nor current JRE version 1.6u35 or 1.7u7 will 
make a difference.
 
I tested LibreOffice builds 3.6.0.4, 3.6.1.2, 3.6.2.2, and 3.6.3.1 none of 
which are functional.
 
In addition today I completed testing of ALL builds of LibreOffice from 3.4.5 
to 3.5.7rc2.  With exception of the 3.5.0 build they all correctly map Java 
Accessibility API roles to UNO Accessibility roles. 
 
The Java Accessibility API is not as comprehensive as the IAccessible2 role 
mappings provided by IBM Lotus Symphony 3.0.1, but it is functional for the 3.4 
and 3.5 releases of LibreOffice.  And, for these versions Windows  Assistive 
Technologies will work. For example, the Windows NVDA screen reader will 
function with cursor control and component announcements for the entire 
document tree.
 
Windows versions of LibreOffice 3.6, including the current build 3.6.3 rc1, are 
NOT USEABLE with Assistive Technologies and they have not been usable with 
Windows Assistive Technologies at any point.
 
For folks that I've mislead with my insistence that all is well with 
LibreOffice 3.6 and Java Access Bridge and JRE with use of Assistive 
Technologies like NVDA screen reader I was wrong--I apologize.
I've updated the FDO#53474 (http:  bug report 
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53474 ) and would encourage folks 
to vote, i.e. comment on, the enhancement to implement IAccessible2 API  ( 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement ) for Windows builds by 
incorporating the IBM contributed Symphony code base as a replacement of the 
Java Accessibility API as that is probably the fastest means of bringing 
Windows builds of LibreOffice to the same functional level as Linux builds that 
use the ATK AT-SPI accessibility APIs.
 
Stuart
 
 

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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with myJRE

2012-10-10 Thread V Stuart Foote

David,
 
Before starting, use regedit.exe and make a backup of your Windows 
Registry--just in case...
 
So, two ways to approach this, a registry edit or navigate the GUI to make 
additions. 
 
Also, using a .REG batch file would be more efficient and less error prone. And 
also allow you to apply the change to multiple systems with little additional 
effort.
See this link for reference on creating the .REG batch file 
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310516/en-us
 
=-=-=

You'd open a regedit.exe session from a Command Prompt Run as 
Administrator, and navigate down the tree to the Hive Key. 
 
Needed changes to Windows Registry are in the key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Environment 
 
Two simple edits are needed.
 
(1) set the Java Home variable:  JAVA_HOME
is a REG_SZ value, REG script would create it with string
C:\Program Files\Java\jre7
Note: for a 64-bit Windows system it would be  C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Java\jre7
 
(2) The System Path value:  Path
is a REG_EXPAND_SZ value, REG script would append string
;%JAVA_HOME%\bin
 
Note: the--; % and \--characters inside the quotation marks are required 
 
 
=-=-=
 
The other way would be to navigate the System Properties GUI and make the edits 
there.
 
1) Open a Command Prompt window Run as Administrator 
 
2) enter systempropertiesadvanced.exe, the GUI will open
 
3) enter alt + n, opens Environment Variable GUI
 
4) enter alt + s, moves to System Variables section of GUI
 
5) enter p, will search and move to first variable starting with P, should be 
Path
 
6) enter alt + i, will open the Edit GUI for the variable selected--should 
announce --and should be in the Variable value positioned at the end of the 
text.
 
7) enter a end key, will position you to the end of the field ready to 
append characters--be careful to NOT erase the entire value.
 
8) type ;%JAVA_HOME%\bin and Enter to save
 
9) enter alt + w, will open New System Variable GUI, with cursor positioned 
in the Variable Name field
 
10) type JAVA_HOME and tab to move to the Variable value field
 
11) type C:\Program Files\Java\jre7 and Enter to save
Note: that would be C:\Program Files (x86)\ on a 64-bit system
 
12) type 3 tabs to move to the OK button and Enter to save. Then exit the 
rest of the System Properties GUIs.

=-=-=
 
Stuart



From: David Goldfield [mailto:dgold...@asb.org]
Sent: Wed 10/10/2012 8:33 AM
To: V Stuart Foote
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with myJRE




So as an alternative, I routinely suggest folks delete the

java.exe,
javaw.exe,
javaws.exe

from the C:\Windows\system32 folder (they're just copies).

Yes.  OK I understand that.  Thank you; that's helpful.

And then I suggest folks establish a proper entry in the system PATH variable 
so that all programs resolve the location to C:\Program Files\Java\jre7\bin.

By convention, we can make use of a JAVA_HOME variable set to C:\Program 
Files\Java\jre7, and with that set, append %JAVA_HOME%\bin to the PATH 
variable. Either way, so long as the JRE bin is present in the system PATH.

I understand the concept but not exactly how this is done.  Could you provide 
quick steps ... At your convenience?
David



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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with myJRE

2012-10-09 Thread V Stuart Foote

David,
 
I spent yesterday working through some of the permutations.
 
I resolved a couple of my own questions.  First, that  Python based NVDA 
functions independent of the Java Runtime Environment - Java Access Bridge. 
 
NVDA does require the JRE and Java Access Bridge to properly control programs 
that are implemented with the Java Access Bridge API, unfortunately that 
includes LibreOffice. 
 
But NVDA will remain functional with the JRE  JAB removed. NVDA only needs to 
be momentarily shut down when uninstalling the JAB  JRE and can be restarted 
as the uninstall completes.
 
=-=-=
 
Another issue, per-user LibreOffice profile from past installation attempts or 
prior versions must be removed.  
 
Uninstallation of LibreOffice leaves the per-user configuration files intact. 
 
This is intentional from the LibreOffice developers perspective--but it 
adversely affects installation or re-installation of LibreOffice with 
accessibility tools and needs to be rebuilt cleanly.
 
The per-user configuration is located at:
 
C:\Users\yourusername\AppData\Roaming\LibreOffice
 
Simply delete the LibreOffice folder and subfolders. And proceed with removal 
and reinstallation of the JRE, enabling the JAB, and lastly installing 
LibreOffice with AT enabled.
 
=-=-=
 
Finally, I am curious as to how incomplete the Flat Review LibreOffice JAB 
based Assistive Technology tools are compared to the Windows IAccessible2 based 
tools, or Linux AT-SPI based, or even the Apple Accessibility API based 
renderings.
 
Since IBM continues to develop and distribute the Lotus Symphony suite, current 
release is 3.0.1 and is free to download and  use.
 
http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/home/ 
http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/home/  
 
I grabbed a set of Windows installers (32-bit), and the FixPack1 for 3.0.1 from
 
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/downloads/ls/symphony/ 
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/downloads/ls/symphony/ 
 
In a side by side comparison using NVDA and the same .odt document -- the 
IAccessible2 based Symphony clearly accessed more of the MSAA-IAccessible roles 
than did the Java Access Bridge based LibreOffice.  Cursor navigation, and 
object based mode functioned--as did reporting of font changes, style and 
header levels and voicing of program annotations like spelling errors. Clearly 
under NVDA Symphony Document is more useable as an editor. Similar results in 
the Spreadsheet compared to Calc.
 
=-=-=
 
I'm going to press on and do the same comparison between a Linux Orca session 
of LibreOffice's  AT-SPI based interface, and Symphony (in both Windows and 
Linux versions)--but suspect it will simply confirm there are serious 
shortcomings to the Java Access Bridge -- UNO a11y  role mappings in 
LibreOffice on the Windows side. 
 
I can't say if this has been the state since inception, or is a recent change 
but will have a little better feel of what roles are working in Linux  with ATK 
side versus in Windows with JAB and may then be able to rationally present the 
case of regression or needed enhancement to the developers. There is an open 
metabug on the Linux AT-SPI ATK AT-SPI2 side for Orca  , maybe we need 
something similar on the Windows JAB side.( 
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_activity.cgi?id=36549 )
 
=-=-=
 
In the interim, until the Java Access Bridge based Windows functions are 
corrected--or until LibreOffice moves fully to and UNO a11y role -  
IAccessible2  role mapping under the IBM Symphony contribution--you may want to 
look at using the free IBM Symphony 3.0.1--of course that leaves you without 
Draw, Base or an Equation editor.
 
Stuart
 
p.s.  CC'd to the Dev list--looking to contact whomever has the best grasp of 
the JRE Java Access Bridge based Assistive Technologies used on the Windows 
side mappings of the UNO a11y  roles.  Difficult to tell what is not working as 
intended, versus what has never been implemented, versus issues with the JRE 
and Java Access Bridge. What I know for sure is that other than the missing 
enhancements of IAccessible2, LibreOffice for Windows is not meeting its AT 
functional goals.



From: David Goldfield [mailto:dgold...@asb.org]
Sent: Tue 10/9/2012 7:44 AM
To: V Stuart Foote
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with myJRE



Hello.
I uninstalled the components in the order in which you suggested.  Using 
another installed screen reader I reinstalled all software in the order 
suggested and ensured that the a.t. support checkbox was checked when 
installing Libreoffice 3.6.  I also enabled JAB via the control panel under 
accessibility settings but I still find that I have no access with LO 3.6 and 
NVDA 2012.2.1.
David


David Goldfield
Computer Technology Instructor
919 Walnut Street
4th Floor
Philadelphia, PA  19107

215-627-0600 ext 3277
FAX:  215-922-0692

mailto:dgold...@asb.org
http://www.asb.org http://www.asb.org

RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE

2012-10-07 Thread V Stuart Foote

Kevin,
 
Rational for uninstalling NVDA is that it has dependencies on the JRE and Java 
Access Bridge installed as their included APIs need to be present and 
configured. 
 
At the least NVDA will need to be reconfigured for stable use with the new JRE 
installation and Java Access Bridge which would happen with a clean 
installation.
 
I believe that while Python based NVDA has the hooks for the various 
accessibility API's MSAA, IAccessible2, JAB and UI Automation, but it still 
needs the current API libraries available from the package installers.
 
Perhaps someone from the NVDA project will pipe in with more precise 
explanation of dependencies if I am mistaken.
 
The portable version may work, I've not tried.
 
Stuart
 




From: Kevin Cussick [mailto:the.big.white.sheph...@googlemail.com]
Sent: Sun 10/7/2012 3:44 PM
To: V Stuart Foote
Cc: Kevin Cussick; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE



Hello,

Forgot to ask in another e-mail you say we should uninstall Nvda. why?
or if we uninstall the installer can we run the portable version so we
get some good access to get this software up and running? with thanks as
always.

On 06/10/2012 20:01, V Stuart Foote wrote:
 Kevin.
 That is an Oracle issue with really crappy URLs.  Your web browser, or
 mail reader, simply inserted a line break at the hyphen! The fully
 functional URL is:
 http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre7u7-downloads-1836441.html
 You are most welcome for the continued assistance.
 And, if you are able to contribute clearer and more intelligible
 instructions for visually impaired users, please do so--I'm not sure I
 can make it any simpler to follow. Sorry.
 Stuart
 
 *From:* Kevin Cussick [mailto:the.big.white.sheph...@googlemail.com]
 *Sent:* Sat 10/6/2012 1:46 PM
 *To:* V Stuart Foote
 *Cc:* David Goldfield; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
 *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice
 with my JRE

 What a lot of hoops we are expected to jump threw just use your
 program really if the sited user had to do this open office and lo
 would not be on the market more than 24 hours! and this link dose not
 work 404 page not found.
 http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre7u7-downloads





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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE

2012-10-06 Thread V Stuart Foote

Kevin.
 
That is an Oracle issue with really crappy URLs.  Your web browser, or mail 
reader, simply inserted a line break at the hyphen!  The fully functional URL 
is:
 
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre7u7-downloads-1836441.html
 
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre7u7-downloads-1836441.html
 
 
You are most welcome for the continued assistance. 
 
And, if you are able to contribute clearer and more intelligible instructions 
for visually impaired users, please do so--I'm not sure I can make it any 
simpler to follow. Sorry.
 
Stuart
 


From: Kevin Cussick [mailto:the.big.white.sheph...@googlemail.com]
Sent: Sat 10/6/2012 1:46 PM
To: V Stuart Foote
Cc: David Goldfield; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE



What a lot of hoops we are expected to jump threw just use your
program really if the sited user had to do this open office and lo
would not be on the market more than 24 hours! and this link dose not
work 404 page not found.
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre7u7-downloads




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[libreoffice-accessibility] Java Accessibility Bridge - JRE support Wiki

2012-09-09 Thread V Stuart Foote

I've revised the  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/Java Wiki post on
JRE 1.6.u35 and JRE 1.7u7 and Java
Access Bridge configuration.

My one continuing suggestion--have a single 32-bit JRE (1.6 or 1.7)
configured for use with LibreOffice, doesn't matter too much which
branch--but just one.

Please correct, expand and clarify as needed.

Stuart




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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Does Java Access Bridge Work in 3.5.4?

2012-06-01 Thread V Stuart Foote

Hello David,

Another user was having issues with Java Access Bridge version 2.0.1 and
version 2.0.2  and also with NVDA

The Bugzilla report 46114 that  you submitted appeared to be the most on
topic but did not mention a resolution or workaround,  so it was reopened.

That is why you received recent emails.

The Java Access Bridge 2.0.2 does not seem to work correctly with
LibreOffice 3.5.4 if installed using instructions provided by Oracle.

But it is not clear that JAB 2.0.1 works either if installed using Oracle
instructions.

So could you explain how you were able to configure  your installation of
Java Access Bridge 2.0.1 to work in LibreOffice 3.5.3?

Thank you.


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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Does Java Access Bridge Work in 3.5.4?

2012-06-01 Thread V Stuart Foote

David,

Thanks for the JWin tip and for checking your JAB 2.0.2 function in LO 3.5.4

Jamal Mazrui's JWin scripted  installation  (
http://empowermentzone.com/JWin.htm ) installs the correct Oracle provided
DLL's and the JAB Jar files.  But JWin does nothing different than Oracle's
manual installation steps, so I must have made the error. It looks as if I'd
borked the Java Access Bridge installation--guess it must be a common issue. 

Still poking around in the Windows specific LibreOffice configurations for
NVDA--but it looks like the JAB 2.0.2 is mostly functional for LibreOffice
3.5.4

Will visit with the developers and  probably now suggest closure of the
46114 Bugzilla report, although the LibreOffice crash was of concern, will
not likely be able to reproduce.

Stuart

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