Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?

[Muhammad Mishbahul]

According to my understanding Rules considers literate to  those who can sign uniformly. individuals who gives their thumb impression specified to be categorised as illiterate. there is lack of any specific direction Haider to about visually impaired person who is highly literate, but put his or her thumb impression  Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 9, 2023, at 18:32, Tanmay Srivastava  wrote:Hi all,I want to know whether legislation has defined "literate" or "illiterate" anywhere?regardstanmay srivastavaOn Sat, 9 Dec, 2023, 6:13 pm BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA,  wrote:my views were, either you submit your requisition online or offline to 
the bank and let them deny. you are right and the master circular is 
also bit confusing. Still A person is treated illiterate where he put 
thumb impression. another side, some of our friends in this group also 
enjoying all banking facilities by putting thumb impression, except 
chequebook.

I think that it is an atitudenal approach of branch staff. you should 
contact to their higher authorities in circle office or zonal office, 
hope your matter will be resolved,  lodge a complaint on the bank's 
customer care portal.


On 12/9/2023 2:22 PM, Vaibhav Bhandari wrote:
> Hi,
> First of all; thanks a lot everyone for the help as well as all the
> information you guys provided. I shall reply to everyone here
> collectively.
> Udit, I actually chose SBI bank because I did not really see any
> discounts  on online shopping sites like amazon or flipcart for it
> whereas SBI does get those offers sometimes. Should I go for Union
> instead? I looked into private banks as well but the fixed deposits
> required there were pritty high. Is it better to have an account in  a
> government bank for instance union rather than private ones like HDFC
> if we are not employed and are a student?
> Harshit, I shall try to get the branch name and code along with the
> name of the bank employee, because I do not currently remember it.
> Bhawani, I did not understand what you were trying to say in your
> second message. Do you mean to say that I should apply online for an
> account in the bank and then see whether they reject it or not? Will
> creating an account online work if we do not want to do so offline?
> After looking at the Master Circular updated as on 01st October 2018,
> I found the following statements in section 2(1)(A):
> iv) If a Blind / visually challenged person is illiterate, or literate
> but unable to sign uniformly, his thumb impression should be obtained
> as a rule on the account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal
> order forms and all the other precautions prescribed for the opening
> and conduct of accounts of illiterate depositors will be followed.
> v) However, if a Blind / visually challenged person is literate and he
> is in a position to sign uniformly, he may put his signature on the
> account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal order forms.
>
> On 12/9/23, Yamuna Jivana Dasa (Yoganathan Khandoo)  wrote:
>> Yes that's excellent advice I did not realize is possible here - apply
>> electronically and have them reject it that way on record. Brilliant. Still,
>> thereafter you need to have somewhere to take that evidence to who can hold
>> them accountable anyway, and without you giving an arm and a leg to
>> accomplish.
>>
>> I've learnt the hard way that while I might get excited about collecting
>> evidence, often the channels we have don't really care about justice. That
>> happened when I lost my job at First National Bank in South Africa. They
>> first appeared to innocently rename my role as back-office assistant by
>> first narrowing it down to switchboard operator, then revoking that as a
>> bank function which gives way to IVR systems.
>> I recorded my exit interview which proved they were only box-ticking past
>> accessibility requirements. Still, I could not fight because they had money
>> and power and I had none.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in]
>> On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA
>> Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2023 10:33 AM
>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?
>>
>> Apply for banking facility you want on their prescribed format, and let them
>> deny. you can ask them to reject your application on writing.
>>
>>
>> On 12/9/2023 9:43 AM, Yamuna Jivana Dasa (Yoganathan Khandoo) wrote:
>>> You know these front-office staff will never comply and give a written
>>> letter stating such. They are not under obligation to provide such a
>>> letter and so they won't in the name of having the next client to see.
>>> It's not a useful dynamic. Better to get the name of the person and
>>> officials here might be able to take it on. Good luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>> [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in] On Be

Re: [AI] Mail by Sugamya Bharat team

[Ashutosh Singhal]

Whichever I knew from the Sugamya Bharat Team mam and sir as well as
observed in the app yet. I believe your WhatsApp issue has been sent to the
relevant authority. I can't say anything from the damn surety because App
has become the victim of Red Tapism. I hope I made some sense.
Regards:
Ashutosh Singhal

On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 at 23:18, Saurav Hegde  wrote:

> So, you mean, the mail was sent to Whatsapp?
> And no, the app needs a lot of work still.
> I do consider that recently this project was facing some issues but, it is
> very weird, that the app meant to report accessibility issues, itself has
> accessibility issues
>
> Regards,
> Saurav
> Student at Brihan Maharashtra College of Commerce, Pune
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 9:08 PM Ashutosh Singhal <
> ashutoshsinghal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> When our complaint is sent to the concerned authority by PMU that time
>> our complaints disappear from the app. As I said earlier that the app has
>> many issues, we should report issues through Play Store, Sugamya Bharat
>> App, Twitter/X app and many more platforms. Now, I have observed more
>> issues in the app which I have already sent to Sugamya Bharat's mam and
>> written in Play Store rating. I will send those issues through Sugamya
>> Bharat App, EDistrict, PG GRAM, Twitter/X soon. Whenever any feedback any
>> platform developers get from more users that time developers solve the
>> issue faster.
>>
>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 at 17:19, Saurav Hegde  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello to the group, hope this message finds you well
>>> I had registered a complaint on the Sugamya Bharat app against Whatsapp
>>> that their stickers and GIFs are in accessible.
>>> I have received the following Email and also, my complaint is not
>>> visible in the app now.
>>>
>>> To,
>>>
>>> Appropriate Authority,
>>>
>>> Dear Sir/Madam,
>>>
>>> Subject: COMPLAINT: Sugamya Bharat Mobile Application – Non-availability
>>> of Accessibility Features at whatsapp for Persons with Disabilities – reg.
>>>
>>> Hon’ble Prime Minister launched the Accessible India Campaign (AIC) or
>>> Sugamya Bharat Abhiyan on 3 rd December 2015, for creating universal
>>> accessibility for Persons with Disabilities (PwDs) for Built Environment,
>>> Transport, and Information & Communication Technology (ICT) ecosystems. A
>>> barrier free environment aims at facilitating equal participation by PwDs
>>> in all activities and helps in promotion of an independent and dignified
>>> way of life.
>>>
>>> 2. As per the Rights for Persons with Disabilities (RPwD) Act, 2016,
>>> public buildings shall be made accessible in accordance with the
>>> ‘Harmonised Guidelines and Space Standards for Barrier Free Built
>>> Environment for Persons with Disability and Elderly Persons, 2016’ as
>>> notified under RPwD Rules. For the government websites, the Guidelines for
>>> Indian Government Websites and for the Road Transport System, the Code of
>>> Practice for Bus Body Design and Approval have been notified under RPwD
>>> Rules, 2017. Any contravention of the provisions of this Act, or of any
>>> rule made there under shall be punishable as per Sections 89 to 95 of the
>>> Act.
>>>
>>> 3. The Department has received a complaint through the mobile
>>> application – ‘Sugamya Bharat’ Mobile Application, wherein a grievance has
>>> been registered related to accessibility in a premise under your
>>> jurisdiction. As such, this complaint is being forwarded to you being the
>>> Appropriate Authority. As per Sections 45-46 of the RPwD Act, 2016, public
>>> buildings/services are required to be made accessible as per the standards
>>> in a time-bound manner. It is the responsibility of the owner/service
>>> provider to make its premise accessible. This Department has been given the
>>> mandate to reach out to the appropriate authorities for facilitating action
>>> on the registered grievance due to which this email is being sent.
>>>
>>> 4. In this regard, it is requested to please acknowledge this
>>> email/letter and take the appropriate action to make the premises
>>> accessible. Non response of this email/letter will lead to automatic
>>> escalation of the matter to higher authorities.
>>>
>>> 5. Appropriate Authorities are also required to update the progress of
>>> the complaint on the portal as per the actions taken, so that the
>>> complainants are kept informed of the actions being taken on their
>>> complaints.
>>>
>>> Note: The responsibility of forwarding the complaint to the owner of the
>>> premises/facility/service lies with the Appropriate Authority
>>> itself.However, while forwarding the complaint to Appropriate Authority,
>>> the PMU of the Sugamya Bharat APP will also try to find and forward the
>>> complaint to the owner of the premises / facility / service by copying them
>>> in the email.
>>>
>>> Complaint no: COM202311220004
>>> Date of complaint registered: 22/11/2023
>>> Complaint registered by: Saurav Hegde
>>> Name of the facility: whatsapp
>>> Address of the facility

Re: [AI] Mail by Sugamya Bharat team

[Ashutosh Singhal]

No sir it has many more issues but somehow we can register our complaints
in the app because OTP and Language Selection Inaccessibility issues have
been fixed after unlimited Post on X/Twitter App, Edestrict complain, Play
Store Rating, Email to the App Developer and lot more efforts.

On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 at 21:33, Prakash Kamat 
wrote:

> Has Sugamya Bharat App become totally ICT Accesible?
>
> On Fri, 8 Dec, 2023, 9:08 pm Ashutosh Singhal, <
> ashutoshsinghal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> When our complaint is sent to the concerned authority by PMU that time
>> our complaints disappear from the app. As I said earlier that the app has
>> many issues, we should report issues through Play Store, Sugamya Bharat
>> App, Twitter/X app and many more platforms. Now, I have observed more
>> issues in the app which I have already sent to Sugamya Bharat's mam and
>> written in Play Store rating. I will send those issues through Sugamya
>> Bharat App, EDistrict, PG GRAM, Twitter/X soon. Whenever any feedback any
>> platform developers get from more users that time developers solve the
>> issue faster.
>>
>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 at 17:19, Saurav Hegde  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello to the group, hope this message finds you well
>>> I had registered a complaint on the Sugamya Bharat app against Whatsapp
>>> that their stickers and GIFs are in accessible.
>>> I have received the following Email and also, my complaint is not
>>> visible in the app now.
>>>
>>> To,
>>>
>>> Appropriate Authority,
>>>
>>> Dear Sir/Madam,
>>>
>>> Subject: COMPLAINT: Sugamya Bharat Mobile Application – Non-availability
>>> of Accessibility Features at whatsapp for Persons with Disabilities – reg.
>>>
>>> Hon’ble Prime Minister launched the Accessible India Campaign (AIC) or
>>> Sugamya Bharat Abhiyan on 3 rd December 2015, for creating universal
>>> accessibility for Persons with Disabilities (PwDs) for Built Environment,
>>> Transport, and Information & Communication Technology (ICT) ecosystems. A
>>> barrier free environment aims at facilitating equal participation by PwDs
>>> in all activities and helps in promotion of an independent and dignified
>>> way of life.
>>>
>>> 2. As per the Rights for Persons with Disabilities (RPwD) Act, 2016,
>>> public buildings shall be made accessible in accordance with the
>>> ‘Harmonised Guidelines and Space Standards for Barrier Free Built
>>> Environment for Persons with Disability and Elderly Persons, 2016’ as
>>> notified under RPwD Rules. For the government websites, the Guidelines for
>>> Indian Government Websites and for the Road Transport System, the Code of
>>> Practice for Bus Body Design and Approval have been notified under RPwD
>>> Rules, 2017. Any contravention of the provisions of this Act, or of any
>>> rule made there under shall be punishable as per Sections 89 to 95 of the
>>> Act.
>>>
>>> 3. The Department has received a complaint through the mobile
>>> application – ‘Sugamya Bharat’ Mobile Application, wherein a grievance has
>>> been registered related to accessibility in a premise under your
>>> jurisdiction. As such, this complaint is being forwarded to you being the
>>> Appropriate Authority. As per Sections 45-46 of the RPwD Act, 2016, public
>>> buildings/services are required to be made accessible as per the standards
>>> in a time-bound manner. It is the responsibility of the owner/service
>>> provider to make its premise accessible. This Department has been given the
>>> mandate to reach out to the appropriate authorities for facilitating action
>>> on the registered grievance due to which this email is being sent.
>>>
>>> 4. In this regard, it is requested to please acknowledge this
>>> email/letter and take the appropriate action to make the premises
>>> accessible. Non response of this email/letter will lead to automatic
>>> escalation of the matter to higher authorities.
>>>
>>> 5. Appropriate Authorities are also required to update the progress of
>>> the complaint on the portal as per the actions taken, so that the
>>> complainants are kept informed of the actions being taken on their
>>> complaints.
>>>
>>> Note: The responsibility of forwarding the complaint to the owner of the
>>> premises/facility/service lies with the Appropriate Authority
>>> itself.However, while forwarding the complaint to Appropriate Authority,
>>> the PMU of the Sugamya Bharat APP will also try to find and forward the
>>> complaint to the owner of the premises / facility / service by copying them
>>> in the email.
>>>
>>> Complaint no: COM202311220004
>>> Date of complaint registered: 22/11/2023
>>> Complaint registered by: Saurav Hegde
>>> Name of the facility: whatsapp
>>> Address of the facility: NA
>>> Description of the issue:NAthe gifs and stickers in whatsapp are
>>> inaccessible with google talkback
>>> Yours Sincerely,
>>> Md.Marazuddin
>>> Under Secretary
>>> Accessible India Campaign
>>> Department of Empowerment of Persons with Disabilities
>>> Ministry of Social Justice and Empowerment
>>> Plea

RE: Unusual reading access preferences (was RE: [AI] Scanners or cameras for large books OCR?)

[Pranav Lal]

Hi Yamuna,

I get the drift. You are dealing with books that are not in the main stream 
hence you need to access paper copies.

Pranav

-- 
Disclaimer:
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person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..


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Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?

[Tanmay Srivastava]

Hi all,

I want to know whether legislation has defined "literate" or "illiterate"
anywhere?

regards

tanmay srivastava

On Sat, 9 Dec, 2023, 6:13 pm BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA, 
wrote:

> my views were, either you submit your requisition online or offline to
> the bank and let them deny. you are right and the master circular is
> also bit confusing. Still A person is treated illiterate where he put
> thumb impression. another side, some of our friends in this group also
> enjoying all banking facilities by putting thumb impression, except
> chequebook.
>
> I think that it is an atitudenal approach of branch staff. you should
> contact to their higher authorities in circle office or zonal office,
> hope your matter will be resolved,  lodge a complaint on the bank's
> customer care portal.
>
>
> On 12/9/2023 2:22 PM, Vaibhav Bhandari wrote:
> > Hi,
> > First of all; thanks a lot everyone for the help as well as all the
> > information you guys provided. I shall reply to everyone here
> > collectively.
> > Udit, I actually chose SBI bank because I did not really see any
> > discounts  on online shopping sites like amazon or flipcart for it
> > whereas SBI does get those offers sometimes. Should I go for Union
> > instead? I looked into private banks as well but the fixed deposits
> > required there were pritty high. Is it better to have an account in  a
> > government bank for instance union rather than private ones like HDFC
> > if we are not employed and are a student?
> > Harshit, I shall try to get the branch name and code along with the
> > name of the bank employee, because I do not currently remember it.
> > Bhawani, I did not understand what you were trying to say in your
> > second message. Do you mean to say that I should apply online for an
> > account in the bank and then see whether they reject it or not? Will
> > creating an account online work if we do not want to do so offline?
> > After looking at the Master Circular updated as on 01st October 2018,
> > I found the following statements in section 2(1)(A):
> > iv) If a Blind / visually challenged person is illiterate, or literate
> > but unable to sign uniformly, his thumb impression should be obtained
> > as a rule on the account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal
> > order forms and all the other precautions prescribed for the opening
> > and conduct of accounts of illiterate depositors will be followed.
> > v) However, if a Blind / visually challenged person is literate and he
> > is in a position to sign uniformly, he may put his signature on the
> > account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal order forms.
> >
> > On 12/9/23, Yamuna Jivana Dasa (Yoganathan Khandoo) 
> wrote:
> >> Yes that's excellent advice I did not realize is possible here - apply
> >> electronically and have them reject it that way on record. Brilliant.
> Still,
> >> thereafter you need to have somewhere to take that evidence to who can
> hold
> >> them accountable anyway, and without you giving an arm and a leg to
> >> accomplish.
> >>
> >> I've learnt the hard way that while I might get excited about collecting
> >> evidence, often the channels we have don't really care about justice.
> That
> >> happened when I lost my job at First National Bank in South Africa. They
> >> first appeared to innocently rename my role as back-office assistant by
> >> first narrowing it down to switchboard operator, then revoking that as a
> >> bank function which gives way to IVR systems.
> >> I recorded my exit interview which proved they were only box-ticking
> past
> >> accessibility requirements. Still, I could not fight because they had
> money
> >> and power and I had none.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in [mailto:
> accessindia@accessindia.org.in]
> >> On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA
> >> Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2023 10:33 AM
> >> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> >> Subject: Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?
> >>
> >> Apply for banking facility you want on their prescribed format, and let
> them
> >> deny. you can ask them to reject your application on writing.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/9/2023 9:43 AM, Yamuna Jivana Dasa (Yoganathan Khandoo) wrote:
> >>> You know these front-office staff will never comply and give a written
> >>> letter stating such. They are not under obligation to provide such a
> >>> letter and so they won't in the name of having the next client to see.
> >>> It's not a useful dynamic. Better to get the name of the person and
> >>> officials here might be able to take it on. Good luck.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> >>> [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR
> >>> VERMA
> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2023 7:16 AM
> >>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> >>> Subject: Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?
> >>>
> >>> demand a written reply for denial of banking servic

Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?

[BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA]

my views were, either you submit your requisition online or offline to 
the bank and let them deny. you are right and the master circular is 
also bit confusing. Still A person is treated illiterate where he put 
thumb impression. another side, some of our friends in this group also 
enjoying all banking facilities by putting thumb impression, except 
chequebook.


I think that it is an atitudenal approach of branch staff. you should 
contact to their higher authorities in circle office or zonal office, 
hope your matter will be resolved,  lodge a complaint on the bank's 
customer care portal.



On 12/9/2023 2:22 PM, Vaibhav Bhandari wrote:

Hi,
First of all; thanks a lot everyone for the help as well as all the
information you guys provided. I shall reply to everyone here
collectively.
Udit, I actually chose SBI bank because I did not really see any
discounts  on online shopping sites like amazon or flipcart for it
whereas SBI does get those offers sometimes. Should I go for Union
instead? I looked into private banks as well but the fixed deposits
required there were pritty high. Is it better to have an account in  a
government bank for instance union rather than private ones like HDFC
if we are not employed and are a student?
Harshit, I shall try to get the branch name and code along with the
name of the bank employee, because I do not currently remember it.
Bhawani, I did not understand what you were trying to say in your
second message. Do you mean to say that I should apply online for an
account in the bank and then see whether they reject it or not? Will
creating an account online work if we do not want to do so offline?
After looking at the Master Circular updated as on 01st October 2018,
I found the following statements in section 2(1)(A):
iv) If a Blind / visually challenged person is illiterate, or literate
but unable to sign uniformly, his thumb impression should be obtained
as a rule on the account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal
order forms and all the other precautions prescribed for the opening
and conduct of accounts of illiterate depositors will be followed.
v) However, if a Blind / visually challenged person is literate and he
is in a position to sign uniformly, he may put his signature on the
account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal order forms.

On 12/9/23, Yamuna Jivana Dasa (Yoganathan Khandoo)  wrote:

Yes that's excellent advice I did not realize is possible here - apply
electronically and have them reject it that way on record. Brilliant. Still,
thereafter you need to have somewhere to take that evidence to who can hold
them accountable anyway, and without you giving an arm and a leg to
accomplish.

I've learnt the hard way that while I might get excited about collecting
evidence, often the channels we have don't really care about justice. That
happened when I lost my job at First National Bank in South Africa. They
first appeared to innocently rename my role as back-office assistant by
first narrowing it down to switchboard operator, then revoking that as a
bank function which gives way to IVR systems.
I recorded my exit interview which proved they were only box-ticking past
accessibility requirements. Still, I could not fight because they had money
and power and I had none.

-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in]
On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA
Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2023 10:33 AM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?

Apply for banking facility you want on their prescribed format, and let them
deny. you can ask them to reject your application on writing.


On 12/9/2023 9:43 AM, Yamuna Jivana Dasa (Yoganathan Khandoo) wrote:

You know these front-office staff will never comply and give a written
letter stating such. They are not under obligation to provide such a
letter and so they won't in the name of having the next client to see.
It's not a useful dynamic. Better to get the name of the person and
officials here might be able to take it on. Good luck.


-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
[mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR
VERMA
Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2023 7:16 AM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?

demand a written reply for denial of banking services on the basis of
thumb impression.


On 12/8/2023 11:49 PM, Vaibhav Bhandari wrote:

Good Evening Everyone,
Just a few months ago, I had gone to an SBI branch to try to open my
account and they told me that thumb print would not be accepted for
opening the bank account and availing facilities like debit card,
internet banking, checkbook, etc., I would need to know how to sign or
else it would be clasified under some illiteracy clause. It's
necessary to understand here that I haven't any experience in signing
and hadn't required doing so until now.

Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?

[Muhammad Mishbahul]

Rules are very much clear here, Even highly educated blind person if gives his 
or her thumb impression Then bank will treat him at par with an illiterate 
customer. This very unique and rare case could only be possible with a Visually 
impaired person, even though he or she has done PHD. This  Anamalai needs to be 
fight out at Policy formulation level.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 9, 2023, at 16:18, Vaibhav Bhandari  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Apologies for a double post but what do they mean by the last part of
> the following line:
> iv) If a Blind / visually challenged person is illiterate, or literate
> but unable to sign uniformly, his thumb impression should be obtained
> as a rule on the account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal
> order forms and all the other precautions prescribed for the opening
> and conduct of accounts of illiterate depositors will be followed.
> Which Precautions are they talking about? I'm a bit confused here.
> 
>> On 12/9/23, Vaibhav Bhandari  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> First of all; thanks a lot everyone for the help as well as all the
>> information you guys provided. I shall reply to everyone here
>> collectively.
>> Udit, I actually chose SBI bank because I did not really see any
>> discounts  on online shopping sites like amazon or flipcart for it
>> whereas SBI does get those offers sometimes. Should I go for Union
>> instead? I looked into private banks as well but the fixed deposits
>> required there were pritty high. Is it better to have an account in  a
>> government bank for instance union rather than private ones like HDFC
>> if we are not employed and are a student?
>> Harshit, I shall try to get the branch name and code along with the
>> name of the bank employee, because I do not currently remember it.
>> Bhawani, I did not understand what you were trying to say in your
>> second message. Do you mean to say that I should apply online for an
>> account in the bank and then see whether they reject it or not? Will
>> creating an account online work if we do not want to do so offline?
>> After looking at the Master Circular updated as on 01st October 2018,
>> I found the following statements in section 2(1)(A):
>> iv) If a Blind / visually challenged person is illiterate, or literate
>> but unable to sign uniformly, his thumb impression should be obtained
>> as a rule on the account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal
>> order forms and all the other precautions prescribed for the opening
>> and conduct of accounts of illiterate depositors will be followed.
>> v) However, if a Blind / visually challenged person is literate and he
>> is in a position to sign uniformly, he may put his signature on the
>> account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal order forms.
>> 
>>> On 12/9/23, Yamuna Jivana Dasa (Yoganathan Khandoo) 
>>> wrote:
>>> Yes that's excellent advice I did not realize is possible here - apply
>>> electronically and have them reject it that way on record. Brilliant.
>>> Still,
>>> thereafter you need to have somewhere to take that evidence to who can
>>> hold
>>> them accountable anyway, and without you giving an arm and a leg to
>>> accomplish.
>>> 
>>> I've learnt the hard way that while I might get excited about collecting
>>> evidence, often the channels we have don't really care about justice.
>>> That
>>> happened when I lost my job at First National Bank in South Africa. They
>>> first appeared to innocently rename my role as back-office assistant by
>>> first narrowing it down to switchboard operator, then revoking that as a
>>> bank function which gives way to IVR systems.
>>> I recorded my exit interview which proved they were only box-ticking past
>>> accessibility requirements. Still, I could not fight because they had
>>> money
>>> and power and I had none.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>> [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in]
>>> On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2023 10:33 AM
>>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?
>>> 
>>> Apply for banking facility you want on their prescribed format, and let
>>> them
>>> deny. you can ask them to reject your application on writing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/9/2023 9:43 AM, Yamuna Jivana Dasa (Yoganathan Khandoo) wrote:
 You know these front-office staff will never comply and give a written
 letter stating such. They are not under obligation to provide such a
 letter and so they won't in the name of having the next client to see.
 It's not a useful dynamic. Better to get the name of the person and
 officials here might be able to take it on. Good luck.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
 [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR
 VERMA
 Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2023 7:16 AM
 To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
 Subject: Re: [AI

Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?

[Vaibhav Bhandari]

Hi,
Apologies for a double post but what do they mean by the last part of
the following line:
iv) If a Blind / visually challenged person is illiterate, or literate
but unable to sign uniformly, his thumb impression should be obtained
as a rule on the account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal
order forms and all the other precautions prescribed for the opening
and conduct of accounts of illiterate depositors will be followed.
Which Precautions are they talking about? I'm a bit confused here.

On 12/9/23, Vaibhav Bhandari  wrote:
> Hi,
> First of all; thanks a lot everyone for the help as well as all the
> information you guys provided. I shall reply to everyone here
> collectively.
> Udit, I actually chose SBI bank because I did not really see any
> discounts  on online shopping sites like amazon or flipcart for it
> whereas SBI does get those offers sometimes. Should I go for Union
> instead? I looked into private banks as well but the fixed deposits
> required there were pritty high. Is it better to have an account in  a
> government bank for instance union rather than private ones like HDFC
> if we are not employed and are a student?
> Harshit, I shall try to get the branch name and code along with the
> name of the bank employee, because I do not currently remember it.
> Bhawani, I did not understand what you were trying to say in your
> second message. Do you mean to say that I should apply online for an
> account in the bank and then see whether they reject it or not? Will
> creating an account online work if we do not want to do so offline?
> After looking at the Master Circular updated as on 01st October 2018,
> I found the following statements in section 2(1)(A):
> iv) If a Blind / visually challenged person is illiterate, or literate
> but unable to sign uniformly, his thumb impression should be obtained
> as a rule on the account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal
> order forms and all the other precautions prescribed for the opening
> and conduct of accounts of illiterate depositors will be followed.
> v) However, if a Blind / visually challenged person is literate and he
> is in a position to sign uniformly, he may put his signature on the
> account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal order forms.
>
> On 12/9/23, Yamuna Jivana Dasa (Yoganathan Khandoo) 
> wrote:
>> Yes that's excellent advice I did not realize is possible here - apply
>> electronically and have them reject it that way on record. Brilliant.
>> Still,
>> thereafter you need to have somewhere to take that evidence to who can
>> hold
>> them accountable anyway, and without you giving an arm and a leg to
>> accomplish.
>>
>> I've learnt the hard way that while I might get excited about collecting
>> evidence, often the channels we have don't really care about justice.
>> That
>> happened when I lost my job at First National Bank in South Africa. They
>> first appeared to innocently rename my role as back-office assistant by
>> first narrowing it down to switchboard operator, then revoking that as a
>> bank function which gives way to IVR systems.
>> I recorded my exit interview which proved they were only box-ticking past
>> accessibility requirements. Still, I could not fight because they had
>> money
>> and power and I had none.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>> [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in]
>> On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA
>> Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2023 10:33 AM
>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?
>>
>> Apply for banking facility you want on their prescribed format, and let
>> them
>> deny. you can ask them to reject your application on writing.
>>
>>
>> On 12/9/2023 9:43 AM, Yamuna Jivana Dasa (Yoganathan Khandoo) wrote:
>>> You know these front-office staff will never comply and give a written
>>> letter stating such. They are not under obligation to provide such a
>>> letter and so they won't in the name of having the next client to see.
>>> It's not a useful dynamic. Better to get the name of the person and
>>> officials here might be able to take it on. Good luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>> [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR
>>> VERMA
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2023 7:16 AM
>>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?
>>>
>>> demand a written reply for denial of banking services on the basis of
>>> thumb impression.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/8/2023 11:49 PM, Vaibhav Bhandari wrote:
 Good Evening Everyone,
 Just a few months ago, I had gone to an SBI branch to try to open my
 account and they told me that thumb print would not be accepted for
 opening the bank account and availing facilities like debit card,
 internet banking, checkbook, etc., I would need to know how to sign or
 else it would be 

Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?

[Vaibhav Bhandari]

Hi,
First of all; thanks a lot everyone for the help as well as all the
information you guys provided. I shall reply to everyone here
collectively.
Udit, I actually chose SBI bank because I did not really see any
discounts  on online shopping sites like amazon or flipcart for it
whereas SBI does get those offers sometimes. Should I go for Union
instead? I looked into private banks as well but the fixed deposits
required there were pritty high. Is it better to have an account in  a
government bank for instance union rather than private ones like HDFC
if we are not employed and are a student?
Harshit, I shall try to get the branch name and code along with the
name of the bank employee, because I do not currently remember it.
Bhawani, I did not understand what you were trying to say in your
second message. Do you mean to say that I should apply online for an
account in the bank and then see whether they reject it or not? Will
creating an account online work if we do not want to do so offline?
After looking at the Master Circular updated as on 01st October 2018,
I found the following statements in section 2(1)(A):
iv) If a Blind / visually challenged person is illiterate, or literate
but unable to sign uniformly, his thumb impression should be obtained
as a rule on the account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal
order forms and all the other precautions prescribed for the opening
and conduct of accounts of illiterate depositors will be followed.
v) However, if a Blind / visually challenged person is literate and he
is in a position to sign uniformly, he may put his signature on the
account opening form, pay-in slips and the withdrawal order forms.

On 12/9/23, Yamuna Jivana Dasa (Yoganathan Khandoo)  wrote:
> Yes that's excellent advice I did not realize is possible here - apply
> electronically and have them reject it that way on record. Brilliant. Still,
> thereafter you need to have somewhere to take that evidence to who can hold
> them accountable anyway, and without you giving an arm and a leg to
> accomplish.
>
> I've learnt the hard way that while I might get excited about collecting
> evidence, often the channels we have don't really care about justice. That
> happened when I lost my job at First National Bank in South Africa. They
> first appeared to innocently rename my role as back-office assistant by
> first narrowing it down to switchboard operator, then revoking that as a
> bank function which gives way to IVR systems.
> I recorded my exit interview which proved they were only box-ticking past
> accessibility requirements. Still, I could not fight because they had money
> and power and I had none.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in]
> On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA
> Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2023 10:33 AM
> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> Subject: Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?
>
> Apply for banking facility you want on their prescribed format, and let them
> deny. you can ask them to reject your application on writing.
>
>
> On 12/9/2023 9:43 AM, Yamuna Jivana Dasa (Yoganathan Khandoo) wrote:
>> You know these front-office staff will never comply and give a written
>> letter stating such. They are not under obligation to provide such a
>> letter and so they won't in the name of having the next client to see.
>> It's not a useful dynamic. Better to get the name of the person and
>> officials here might be able to take it on. Good luck.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>> [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR
>> VERMA
>> Sent: Saturday, December 9, 2023 7:16 AM
>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Singnature required for banking facilities?
>>
>> demand a written reply for denial of banking services on the basis of
>> thumb impression.
>>
>>
>> On 12/8/2023 11:49 PM, Vaibhav Bhandari wrote:
>>> Good Evening Everyone,
>>> Just a few months ago, I had gone to an SBI branch to try to open my
>>> account and they told me that thumb print would not be accepted for
>>> opening the bank account and availing facilities like debit card,
>>> internet banking, checkbook, etc., I would need to know how to sign or
>>> else it would be clasified under some illiteracy clause. It's
>>> necessary to understand here that I haven't any experience in signing
>>> and hadn't required doing so until now. The helper that was explaining
>>> me all this also said that they haven't even allowed their visually
>>> impared employees to use internet banking because they couldn't sign.
>>> So after returning, I tried doing some research, where in I found that
>>> there is a consensus among the various sites that such facilities
>>> cannot be denied to people with visual imparement just because they
>>> cannot sign but I cannot find this written somewhere in the banking
>>> rules. So, if someone could clarify this for