Re: [AFMUG] OT: Price Gouging

[Steve Jones]

Gouging is when you take advantage of someone in need to charge an amount
higher than market value. This is taking advantage of a signed check with
no dollar amount in the amount field. Its like finding an open ATM when the
power is out. There's no camera functioning, so you're really only limited
by the size of your pockets and whoever is watching.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 9:54 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Would this be related to FirstNet, which I understand is mostly an AT
> thing?
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 3:23 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> We are doing it with one of the county governments we service.
>>
>> They probably have an arrangement to use ATT or something. Why would you
>> pay for a build when you have two other carriers already there?
>>
>> > On Mar 27, 2020, at 5:02 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm guessing the telco's are exempt from price gouging.  We just saw an
>> emergency underground locate come through so that AT could do a 2000'
>> bore into a building to provide 'covid19 command center' There are already
>> 2 other fiber providers in the building, and we could reach it via
>> Microwave.  I'm thinking the sales guy made his yearly commission on that
>> circuit, as I can't see AT doing an install at that speed out of the
>> goodness of their heart   I'm guessing similar things are being done
>> all over the country.
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Price Gouging

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Would this be related to FirstNet, which I understand is mostly an AT
thing?


On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 3:23 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> We are doing it with one of the county governments we service.
>
> They probably have an arrangement to use ATT or something. Why would you
> pay for a build when you have two other carriers already there?
>
> > On Mar 27, 2020, at 5:02 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> >
> > I'm guessing the telco's are exempt from price gouging.  We just saw an
> emergency underground locate come through so that AT could do a 2000'
> bore into a building to provide 'covid19 command center' There are already
> 2 other fiber providers in the building, and we could reach it via
> Microwave.  I'm thinking the sales guy made his yearly commission on that
> circuit, as I can't see AT doing an install at that speed out of the
> goodness of their heart   I'm guessing similar things are being done
> all over the country.
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
- Forrest
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Roland Houin]

My testing seems to agree with steve.

We’re testing 1 tower now.  

Looks very promising

 

roland

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 8:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

 

That's per month. But worth it for the recovered installs. They pay for the 
service as long as they're active.

You really should contact them directly. Get a demo up. I don't vouch for 
anything, and I never use the term game changer in a non sarcastic way. I'll 
vouch for this game changer.

I'm not going to lie, this is self serving. What this does is it gets everyone 
installing in the best location under most circumstances. What that does for me 
is cleans up the spectrum. Less radios blasting full eirp around me means less 
interference. My radios not blasting means equalized ap levels. This means more 
customers per ap at higher throughput and more time to drink since I'm not 
dealing with saturated radios or interference as often.

 

How does chuck in Utah benefit me? If chuck in Utah signs off on it, there's 
trust in the product. Hence more sales. Long term more engineering/features and 
lower cost.

 

Trust this chuck, let me drink more. Alchohol kills corona and I want to live

 

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 7:10 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

One time or recurring?

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 4:59 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat 

Is the pricing $12.50/site now?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Roland Houin]

monthly, recurring, 3 year term, billed quarterly

Roland



> One time or recurring?

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 4:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

Is the pricing $12.50/site now?

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com <


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Steve Jones]

That's per month. But worth it for the recovered installs. They pay for the
service as long as they're active.
You really should contact them directly. Get a demo up. I don't vouch for
anything, and I never use the term game changer in a non sarcastic way.
I'll vouch for this game changer.
I'm not going to lie, this is self serving. What this does is it gets
everyone installing in the best location under most circumstances. What
that does for me is cleans up the spectrum. Less radios blasting full eirp
around me means less interference. My radios not blasting means equalized
ap levels. This means more customers per ap at higher throughput and more
time to drink since I'm not dealing with saturated radios or interference
as often.

How does chuck in Utah benefit me? If chuck in Utah signs off on it,
there's trust in the product. Hence more sales. Long term more
engineering/features and lower cost.

Trust this chuck, let me drink more. Alchohol kills corona and I want to
live

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 7:10 PM  wrote:

> One time or recurring?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 4:59 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat
>
> Is the pricing $12.50/site now?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[chuck]

One time or recurring?

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 4:59 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat 


Is the pricing $12.50/site now?

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Matt Hoppes]

Is the pricing $12.50/site now?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Price Gouging

[Mike Hammett]

Nate is in the Chicago suburbs. Probably 500k people in a ten mile radius of 
his office. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Kurt Fankhauser"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 5:19:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Price Gouging 


Covid 19 command center? How big of a population is that government agency 
going to service that has jurisdiction there? 


On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 5:23 PM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net 
> wrote: 


We are doing it with one of the county governments we service. 

They probably have an arrangement to use ATT or something. Why would you pay 
for a build when you have two other carriers already there? 

> On Mar 27, 2020, at 5:02 PM, Nate Burke < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 
> 
> I'm guessing the telco's are exempt from price gouging. We just saw an 
> emergency underground locate come through so that AT could do a 2000' bore 
> into a building to provide 'covid19 command center' There are already 2 other 
> fiber providers in the building, and we could reach it via Microwave. I'm 
> thinking the sales guy made his yearly commission on that circuit, as I can't 
> see AT doing an install at that speed out of the goodness of their 
> heart I'm guessing similar things are being done all over the country. 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list 
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Price Gouging

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Covid 19 command center? How big of a population is that government agency
going to service that has jurisdiction there?

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 5:23 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> We are doing it with one of the county governments we service.
>
> They probably have an arrangement to use ATT or something. Why would you
> pay for a build when you have two other carriers already there?
>
> > On Mar 27, 2020, at 5:02 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> >
> > I'm guessing the telco's are exempt from price gouging.  We just saw an
> emergency underground locate come through so that AT could do a 2000'
> bore into a building to provide 'covid19 command center' There are already
> 2 other fiber providers in the building, and we could reach it via
> Microwave.  I'm thinking the sales guy made his yearly commission on that
> circuit, as I can't see AT doing an install at that speed out of the
> goodness of their heart   I'm guessing similar things are being done
> all over the country.
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Steve Jones]

only thing it does not have is wind turbines, that data would be nice to
have in there

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 4:45 PM Craig Schmaderer 
wrote:

> How does it compare to TowerCoverage?  That seems expensive compared to
> what I pay them.  We use it everyday with great success.  I really can not
> think of an install that we lost because of it.   Did any of you switch and
> why?
>
>
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Dan Sullivan via AF <
> af@af.afmug.com>
> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Date: *Friday, March 27, 2020 at 4:40 PM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc: *Dan Sullivan 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat
>
>
>
> If a site costs $12.50 per month and you save a failed install or go
> exactly right to the correct spot on a good install, time savings and
> equipment wear and tear will be realized on first install call.
>
>
>
> Can use tool to look for locations of previous DNQs.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2020 11:40 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> Yep, you’re arguing about semantics.  The difference between “free” and “a
> tool that pays for itself” is hard to see.  Some people would use the term
> “no-brainer”.
>
>
>
> Whether it in fact pays for itself is a more substantive question.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2020 10:58 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> It's a figure of speech.
>
> On 3/27/2020 11:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> It's not free, it's more of an investment.  Or a tool that pays for
> itself.
>
>
> There's no such thing as free, Bernie.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 4:08 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> Cheat is effectively free if you can identify the right number of
> customers who you passed over because of a failed installation.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Maybe since George made the same commute every day he could file one
> recurring flight plan for the whole year.
>
> On 3/26/2020 10:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> They never mentioned this on The Jetsons.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:48 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> We've had flying cars for a long time, but we call them helicopters.  You
> could make it thing powered by ducted jets and it'll just look cooler and
> burn way more fuel.  The bigger problem isn't building a flying car, it's
> that the driver needs to be a licensed pilot and file flight plans.
>
>
>
> On 3/25/2020 9:10 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Hey, I asked first for RF goggles and an R2D2 tower monkey, no cutting in
> line.  Oh, and where’s my flying car?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> I'd hope we go onsite. Id pay slot more for cnheat if it did the installs
> too. Like shoots a rocket from cambium hq, lands on the spot, nanotech
> installs
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:39 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite, especially for trees
> near the site.  Stupid trees grow, or blow in the wind.
>
>
>
> I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever those really tall
> skinny trees are, not the evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that
> grows 5-10 feet per in height per year.  The trees had grown to be taller
> than the house, and they took 2 of them out with a chainsaw.  Everything
> was fine when the wind was from the north, but with a strong wind from the
> south, the link would completely drop.  She wouldn’t believe me the trees
> were bending in the wind, until I had a tech climb up on the second story
> roof and plug a little amplified speaker into the tone alignment port of
> the Cambium SM.  You could watch the trees sway back and forth and listen
> to the tone rise and fall, and drop out when the wind blew hard enough.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> that would be a discussion to have with them.
>
> LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch with it in 30 seconds is
> amazing. We are 99.9% on pulling the trigger
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was a logical explanation to
> where it worked and where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is basically
> looking for LOS, and if you asked it to evaluate NLOS paths, now the LIDAR
> data would have to distinguish maples from pines from buildings.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
> Sent: 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Steve Jones]

weve found -77 and 0 feet to be a perfect tool for starting (-77 lights up
targets)
then we go to 12 feet, because thats the minimum height of post we require
if theres nothing on the house

in less than a week, operating with questionable input data (from us) we
have already been able to build out processes.

customer service can use it to qualify a customer
installer can use if to site survey
i can use it for identifying locations for backhauls
admin can use it for reviewing old no line of sites and recovering revenue

thats just from 1 of the 3 tools

its a simple tool to use, and if youve run RM, the minute they show you how
to operate the sliders, your eye starts to bleed and you regret the hours
of propagation you could have spent drinking

it would be really awesome if they could work out a deal with GME on a
discount for a SmartAligner so your input data is as accurate as possible.
but fyi, the smart aligner comes in a pelican case, and there is bragging
rights in having a pelican case.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 4:36 PM Dan Sullivan via AF  wrote:

> cnHeat will help you to avoid the failed truck rolls and target the
> correct location at the start for your successful truck rolls.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 3:07 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> Cheat is effectively free if you can identify the right number of
> customers who you passed over because of a failed installation.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Maybe since George made the same commute every day he could file one
> recurring flight plan for the whole year.
>
> On 3/26/2020 10:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> They never mentioned this on The Jetsons.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:48 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> We've had flying cars for a long time, but we call them helicopters.  You
> could make it thing powered by ducted jets and it'll just look cooler and
> burn way more fuel.  The bigger problem isn't building a flying car, it's
> that the driver needs to be a licensed pilot and file flight plans.
>
>
>
> On 3/25/2020 9:10 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Hey, I asked first for RF goggles and an R2D2 tower monkey, no cutting in
> line.  Oh, and where’s my flying car?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> I'd hope we go onsite. Id pay slot more for cnheat if it did the installs
> too. Like shoots a rocket from cambium hq, lands on the spot, nanotech
> installs
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:39 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite, especially for trees
> near the site.  Stupid trees grow, or blow in the wind.
>
>
>
> I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever those really tall
> skinny trees are, not the evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that
> grows 5-10 feet per in height per year.  The trees had grown to be taller
> than the house, and they took 2 of them out with a chainsaw.  Everything
> was fine when the wind was from the north, but with a strong wind from the
> south, the link would completely drop.  She wouldn’t believe me the trees
> were bending in the wind, until I had a tech climb up on the second story
> roof and plug a little amplified speaker into the tone alignment port of
> the Cambium SM.  You could watch the trees sway back and forth and listen
> to the tone rise and fall, and drop out when the wind blew hard enough.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> that would be a discussion to have with them.
>
> LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch with it in 30 seconds is
> amazing. We are 99.9% on pulling the trigger
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was a logical explanation to
> where it worked and where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is basically
> looking for LOS, and if you asked it to evaluate NLOS paths, now the LIDAR
> data would have to distinguish maples from pines from buildings.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 12:08 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
> Thanks. I'm watching an old webinar where only 5GHz and 3.5 GHz was
> supported.  900 was on the road map.
>
> Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
> > At least 900, 2.4, 3.5, and 5
> >
> > Jeff Broadwick
> > CTIconnect
> > 312-205-2519 Office
> > 574-220-7826 Cell
> > jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
> >
> >> On Mar 25, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Jay Weekley 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> What frequencies does it support?
> >>
> >> 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Craig Schmaderer]

How does it compare to TowerCoverage?  That seems expensive compared to what I 
pay them.  We use it everyday with great success.  I really can not think of an 
install that we lost because of it.   Did any of you switch and why?

From: AF  on behalf of Dan Sullivan via AF 

Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Friday, March 27, 2020 at 4:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Dan Sullivan 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

If a site costs $12.50 per month and you save a failed install or go exactly 
right to the correct spot on a good install, time savings and equipment wear 
and tear will be realized on first install call.

Can use tool to look for locations of previous DNQs.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 11:40 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

Yep, you’re arguing about semantics.  The difference between “free” and “a tool 
that pays for itself” is hard to see.  Some people would use the term 
“no-brainer”.

Whether it in fact pays for itself is a more substantive question.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 10:58 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat


It's a figure of speech.
On 3/27/2020 11:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
It's not free, it's more of an investment.  Or a tool that pays for itself.

There's no such thing as free, Bernie.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 4:08 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Cheat is effectively free if you can identify the right number of customers who 
you passed over because of a failed installation.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Maybe since George made the same commute every day he could file one recurring 
flight plan for the whole year.
On 3/26/2020 10:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
They never mentioned this on The Jetsons.

From: AF  On Behalf Of 
Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat


We've had flying cars for a long time, but we call them helicopters.  You could 
make it thing powered by ducted jets and it'll just look cooler and burn way 
more fuel.  The bigger problem isn't building a flying car, it's that the 
driver needs to be a licensed pilot and file flight plans.


On 3/25/2020 9:10 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Hey, I asked first for RF goggles and an R2D2 tower monkey, no cutting in line. 
 Oh, and where’s my flying car?

From: AF  On Behalf Of 
Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

I'd hope we go onsite. Id pay slot more for cnheat if it did the installs too. 
Like shoots a rocket from cambium hq, lands on the spot, nanotech installs

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:39 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite, especially for trees near 
the site.  Stupid trees grow, or blow in the wind.

I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever those really tall skinny 
trees are, not the evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that grows 5-10 
feet per in height per year.  The trees had grown to be taller than the house, 
and they took 2 of them out with a chainsaw.  Everything was fine when the wind 
was from the north, but with a strong wind from the south, the link would 
completely drop.  She wouldn’t believe me the trees were bending in the wind, 
until I had a tech climb up on the second story roof and plug a little 
amplified speaker into the tone alignment port of the Cambium SM.  You could 
watch the trees sway back and forth and listen to the tone rise and fall, and 
drop out when the wind blew hard enough.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

that would be a discussion to have with them.
LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch with it in 30 seconds is 
amazing. We are 99.9% on pulling the trigger

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was a logical explanation to 
where it worked and where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is basically 
looking for LOS, and if you asked it to evaluate NLOS paths, now the LIDAR data 
would have to distinguish maples from pines from buildings.


-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jay Weekley
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 12:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

Thanks. I'm watching an 

[AFMUG] Optic DIsh Feedhorn stock?

[Erich Kaiser]

Anyone have any 11ghz Ceragon Feedhhorns for the WBMFG Optic 2ft dishes?


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 815-570-3101
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] clutter data and drones

[Steve Jones]

reviving this one

where all would a guy go if he wanted to get pricing on fresh data
collection? ie hiring one of these drone/blimp/plane firms?

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:57 PM Chuck Hogg 
wrote:

> Nice, I was curious if any Common people would be on here.  Welcome to the
> farm, where pigs fly.
>
> Best Regards, Chuck Hogg   |  *SVP/Director of Acquisitions*
> *ALL POINTS* *BROADBAND *| *Live Connected.*
> mobile  502.435.6649
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 6:11 PM Dan Spitler  wrote:
>
>> Just to chime in here: Nearmap is doing yearly, higher-res
>> photogrammetry captures of major (sub)urban areas across the US. You can
>> purchase pre-rendered surface models from which you can do all sorts of fun
>> things with.
>> Also, Google's SAS program has a network planner included which allows
>> you to get elevation profiles *with* clutter using the same data as seen on
>> Google Earth. My only problem with it is it only does low-rez RF
>> propagation (no simple viewesheds) and the data is of unknown vintage.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:19 PM Chuck Hogg 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's 2 examples of 2m vs 30m data as well for Google Earth.  If the
>>> list serv strips them, let me know.
>>>
>>> Look at the shadows created by buildings and trees as far as coverage
>>> goes in the 2M data.
>>>
>>> These are random locations in Louisville.  The City of Louisville
>>> released their data for free.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 4:14 PM Chuck Hogg 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Also, check your states/counties/cities.  Some states have had
 initiatives to map this data.  The forestry fire service also maps this
 data.  There are also point clouds created with this data.  Ky for example
 has this data from 2013 to 2018.  The 2018 data is still being compiled.
 It's also free.  Virginia had whole portions of the state done in 2017.

 One good resource is:
 https://www.usgs.gov/core-science-systems/ngp/3dep





 On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 4:11 PM Chuck Hogg <
 ch...@allpointsbroadband.com> wrote:

> The LIDAR data processing for a 2M resolution of an OMNI on the
> platform I'm using takes about 45-75 seconds.  The same 30M resolution is
> typically a done in a second.  These are done using 10km radiuses
> currently, but I'm increasing it to 20km.  As you know this will cause it
> to be significantly heavier on the processing.  A geotiff file for one
> access point using 2M data at 10km radius is about 18MB.  The same GeoTIFF
> for 30M data is under 1MB.  30M is 900Meters squared.  2M is 4M squared.
> Roughly 225x more datapoints in 2M.
>
> Best Regards, Chuck Hogg   |  *SVP/Director of Acquisitions*
> *ALL POINTS* *BROADBAND *| *Live Connected.*
> mobile  502.435.6649
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 3:45 PM Brian Webster <
> i...@wirelessmapping.com> wrote:
>
>> I do not know the answer to that but I suspect that they are just
>> using the images from multiple angles.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam
>> Moffett
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2019 3:23 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] clutter data and drones
>>
>>
>>
>> Good question
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/18/2019 3:05 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> Does Google actually have LIDAR or are they just running the images
>> that they collect from multiple angles through an algorithm to guess at 
>> the
>> obstructions?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Adam Moffett"  
>> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:53:10 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] clutter data and drones
>>
>> Looks like no 3D building/trees in the profile.
>>
>> On 12/18/2019 1:57 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>>
>> Adam,
>>
>>
>>
>> If you draw a line between the AP and the address point and then
>> right click to show elevation profile, does it look 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Dan Sullivan via AF]

If a site costs $12.50 per month and you save a failed install or go exactly 
right to the correct spot on a good install, time savings and equipment wear 
and tear will be realized on first install call.

Can use tool to look for locations of previous DNQs.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 11:40 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

Yep, you’re arguing about semantics.  The difference between “free” and “a tool 
that pays for itself” is hard to see.  Some people would use the term 
“no-brainer”.

Whether it in fact pays for itself is a more substantive question.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 10:58 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat


It's a figure of speech.
On 3/27/2020 11:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
It's not free, it's more of an investment.  Or a tool that pays for itself.

There's no such thing as free, Bernie.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 4:08 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Cheat is effectively free if you can identify the right number of customers who 
you passed over because of a failed installation.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Maybe since George made the same commute every day he could file one recurring 
flight plan for the whole year.
On 3/26/2020 10:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
They never mentioned this on The Jetsons.

From: AF  On Behalf Of 
Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat


We've had flying cars for a long time, but we call them helicopters.  You could 
make it thing powered by ducted jets and it'll just look cooler and burn way 
more fuel.  The bigger problem isn't building a flying car, it's that the 
driver needs to be a licensed pilot and file flight plans.


On 3/25/2020 9:10 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Hey, I asked first for RF goggles and an R2D2 tower monkey, no cutting in line. 
 Oh, and where’s my flying car?

From: AF  On Behalf Of 
Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

I'd hope we go onsite. Id pay slot more for cnheat if it did the installs too. 
Like shoots a rocket from cambium hq, lands on the spot, nanotech installs

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:39 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite, especially for trees near 
the site.  Stupid trees grow, or blow in the wind.

I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever those really tall skinny 
trees are, not the evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that grows 5-10 
feet per in height per year.  The trees had grown to be taller than the house, 
and they took 2 of them out with a chainsaw.  Everything was fine when the wind 
was from the north, but with a strong wind from the south, the link would 
completely drop.  She wouldn’t believe me the trees were bending in the wind, 
until I had a tech climb up on the second story roof and plug a little 
amplified speaker into the tone alignment port of the Cambium SM.  You could 
watch the trees sway back and forth and listen to the tone rise and fall, and 
drop out when the wind blew hard enough.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

that would be a discussion to have with them.
LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch with it in 30 seconds is 
amazing. We are 99.9% on pulling the trigger

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was a logical explanation to 
where it worked and where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is basically 
looking for LOS, and if you asked it to evaluate NLOS paths, now the LIDAR data 
would have to distinguish maples from pines from buildings.


-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jay Weekley
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 12:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

Thanks. I'm watching an old webinar where only 5GHz and 3.5 GHz was supported.  
900 was on the road map.

Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
> At least 900, 2.4, 3.5, and 5
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Jay Weekley 
>> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
>>
>> What frequencies does it support?
>>
>> ch...@wbmfg.com 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Dan Sullivan via AF]

cnHeat will help you to avoid the failed truck rolls and target the correct 
location at the start for your successful truck rolls.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 3:07 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

Cheat is effectively free if you can identify the right number of customers who 
you passed over because of a failed installation.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Maybe since George made the same commute every day he could file one recurring 
flight plan for the whole year.
On 3/26/2020 10:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
They never mentioned this on The Jetsons.

From: AF  On Behalf Of 
Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat


We've had flying cars for a long time, but we call them helicopters.  You could 
make it thing powered by ducted jets and it'll just look cooler and burn way 
more fuel.  The bigger problem isn't building a flying car, it's that the 
driver needs to be a licensed pilot and file flight plans.


On 3/25/2020 9:10 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Hey, I asked first for RF goggles and an R2D2 tower monkey, no cutting in line. 
 Oh, and where’s my flying car?

From: AF  On Behalf Of 
Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

I'd hope we go onsite. Id pay slot more for cnheat if it did the installs too. 
Like shoots a rocket from cambium hq, lands on the spot, nanotech installs

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:39 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite, especially for trees near 
the site.  Stupid trees grow, or blow in the wind.

I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever those really tall skinny 
trees are, not the evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that grows 5-10 
feet per in height per year.  The trees had grown to be taller than the house, 
and they took 2 of them out with a chainsaw.  Everything was fine when the wind 
was from the north, but with a strong wind from the south, the link would 
completely drop.  She wouldn’t believe me the trees were bending in the wind, 
until I had a tech climb up on the second story roof and plug a little 
amplified speaker into the tone alignment port of the Cambium SM.  You could 
watch the trees sway back and forth and listen to the tone rise and fall, and 
drop out when the wind blew hard enough.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

that would be a discussion to have with them.
LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch with it in 30 seconds is 
amazing. We are 99.9% on pulling the trigger

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was a logical explanation to 
where it worked and where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is basically 
looking for LOS, and if you asked it to evaluate NLOS paths, now the LIDAR data 
would have to distinguish maples from pines from buildings.


-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jay Weekley
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 12:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

Thanks. I'm watching an old webinar where only 5GHz and 3.5 GHz was supported.  
900 was on the road map.

Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
> At least 900, 2.4, 3.5, and 5
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Jay Weekley 
>> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
>>
>> What frequencies does it support?
>>
>> ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> How do they charge for it?  Can you do work for the next guy over?
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 6:20 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>> I would bet they would be able to get something arranged. You never know if 
>>> you don't ask. I know one isp in the same boat, 150 towers, lots of hills, 
>>> I can see the price being too high. But the other part where they help 
>>> identify best locations to cover from may be worth it. Less towers and more 
>>> coverage is always good. Planting people seeds would be good too. But 
>>> they're hard to keep watered.
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 6:50 PM SmarterBroadband 
>>> mailto:li...@sbb.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would love to give it a go. But the pricing model of per site
>>> does not work for us.  We have to have many small sites because of
>>> hills and trees , 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Dan Sullivan via AF]

For 3 GHz nLOS / NLOS we plan to account for your trees and their movement.  
Great point.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 3:39 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite, especially for trees near 
the site.  Stupid trees grow, or blow in the wind.

I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever those really tall skinny 
trees are, not the evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that grows 5-10 
feet per in height per year.  The trees had grown to be taller than the house, 
and they took 2 of them out with a chainsaw.  Everything was fine when the wind 
was from the north, but with a strong wind from the south, the link would 
completely drop.  She wouldn’t believe me the trees were bending in the wind, 
until I had a tech climb up on the second story roof and plug a little 
amplified speaker into the tone alignment port of the Cambium SM.  You could 
watch the trees sway back and forth and listen to the tone rise and fall, and 
drop out when the wind blew hard enough.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

that would be a discussion to have with them.
LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch with it in 30 seconds is 
amazing. We are 99.9% on pulling the trigger

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was a logical explanation to 
where it worked and where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is basically 
looking for LOS, and if you asked it to evaluate NLOS paths, now the LIDAR data 
would have to distinguish maples from pines from buildings.


-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jay Weekley
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 12:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

Thanks. I'm watching an old webinar where only 5GHz and 3.5 GHz was supported.  
900 was on the road map.

Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
> At least 900, 2.4, 3.5, and 5
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Jay Weekley 
>> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
>>
>> What frequencies does it support?
>>
>> ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> How do they charge for it?  Can you do work for the next guy over?
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 6:20 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>> I would bet they would be able to get something arranged. You never know if 
>>> you don't ask. I know one isp in the same boat, 150 towers, lots of hills, 
>>> I can see the price being too high. But the other part where they help 
>>> identify best locations to cover from may be worth it. Less towers and more 
>>> coverage is always good. Planting people seeds would be good too. But 
>>> they're hard to keep watered.
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 6:50 PM SmarterBroadband 
>>> mailto:li...@sbb.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would love to give it a go. But the pricing model of per site
>>> does not work for us.  We have to have many small sites because of
>>> hills and trees , over 90 currently.   I can see if you had a few
>>> mega sites it could make sense.
>>>
>>> *From:* AF 
>>> [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf 
>>> Of *Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 10:15 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>>
>>> much much more than free
>>>
>>> but much much less input and much much much more output
>>>
>>> I had the same question, and skepticism, until i saw the data and
>>> applied it to our real world.
>>>
>>> The way I look at it, radio mobile costs zero. A no line of site
>>> generates zero, so thats a wash on its face. but the truck rolled
>>> and other jobs werent done, so theres a net loss. that in itself
>>> probably scales to the price over the course of the customer we
>>> missed.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM 
>>> mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?
>>>
>>> *From:*Steve Jones
>>>
>>> *Sent:*Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
>>>
>>> *To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:*[AFMUG] CNHeat
>>>
>>> I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this
>>> pasky WISP stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal
>>> game changer, we took a no line of site this morning to
>>> install. we would have walked away, btu 

Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

[Roland Houin]

Thanks all for the help
I have the right contacts now for Indiana.


Roland

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Andrew Haninger
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 5:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

Try a local wildlife rehabber group. These are often volunteers, so it's more 
of a passion than a paycheck. They also likely have good contacts with the 
state DNR as they usually need licenses to do rehab.
That's what it's like in Ohio, anyway. Not really sure about Indy.

Like Jaime said, eye or face protection would be good. Thick "gauntlet" gloves 
that go up to your elbow would be better.

You're probably out of luck, though.

Andy

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 10:11 AM Roland Houin  wrote:
>
> We have a tower where we need to do some upgrades etc.
>
> Ospreys have returned a few days ago.
>
> Does anyone know who to contact (Indiana) to make sure we don’t get in 
> trouble..
>
>
>
>
>
> No one at the DNR seems to be working…
>
>
>
>
>
> Roland Houin
>
> Fourway.Net
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Dan Sullivan via AF]

We support 5 GHz and 3 GHz.  We plan to support nLOS / NLOS in the very near 
future.  If you have cnHeat today with 3 GHz.  nLOS / NLOS come as a free 
feature when it arrives.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 11:17 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

What frequencies does it support?

ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> How do they charge for it?  Can you do work for the next guy over?
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 6:20 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
> I would bet they would be able to get something arranged. You never 
> know if you don't ask. I know one isp in the same boat, 150 towers, 
> lots of hills, I can see the price being too high. But the other part 
> where they help identify best locations to cover from may be worth it.
> Less towers and more coverage is always good. Planting people seeds 
> would be good too. But they're hard to keep watered.
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 6:50 PM SmarterBroadband  wrote:
>
> I would love to give it a go. But the pricing model of per site
> does not work for us.  We have to have many small sites because of
> hills and trees , over 90 currently.   I can see if you had a few
> mega sites it could make sense.
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 10:15 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
> much much more than free
>
> but much much less input and much much much more output
>
> I had the same question, and skepticism, until i saw the data and
> applied it to our real world.
>
> The way I look at it, radio mobile costs zero. A no line of site
> generates zero, so thats a wash on its face. but the truck rolled
> and other jobs werent done, so theres a net loss. that in itself
> probably scales to the price over the course of the customer we
> missed.
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM  wrote:
>
> What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?
>
> *From:*Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:*Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
>
> *To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:*[AFMUG] CNHeat
>
> I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this
> pasky WISP stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal
> game changer, we took a no line of site this morning to
> install. we would have walked away, btu happened to have the
> CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal (we
> actually missed it because walking the roof and the scan time
> didnt grab it)
>
> there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been
> bad long term.
>
> we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to
> EPMp the last few months, this would have been a godsend, half
> of them will need to be revisited in spring when leaves come
> out, but we were pressing to clear 320 to make room for 450
> cbrs stuff
>
> your installer can walk out the door each morning with a
> picture and have a best location target, install survey times
> will be minimized and youll know youre well beyond first good
> spot, and on the probably best spot.
>
> I dont come across a product im this excited about too often.
> If I had the time id go look at the last years NLOS and see
> where we missed revenue options. And this is just IDENTIFY the
> other two components are crazy perfect too
>
> like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and
> its only as good as the data you put in, I think we are all
> familiar with that here.
>
> This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I
> can do on my Access points because of marginal installs, and
> how much we have lost in NLOS that didnt need to be
>
> 
> --
> --
>
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> 
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.af
> mug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.comdata=02%7C01%7Cdani
> el.sullivan%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Ce0f94ac95a184ceb83fb08d7d0d8184c%7
> C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637207498874056075sda
> ta=8aXCSPbAvaofJUMz9uijqo7w06BRjLyJOKcP7CV20FU%3Dreserved=0
>
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> 
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.af
> mug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.comdata=02%7C01%7Cdani
> el.sullivan%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Ce0f94ac95a184ceb83fb08d7d0d8184c%7
> C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637207498874056075sda
> 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Dan Sullivan via AF]

This is a great idea.  We are planning to provide a way to do this in the not 
too distant future.  Stay tuned…

From: AF  On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 7:39 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

Pay per successful install would be good.   Win-win.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 5:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

I would bet they would be able to get something arranged. You never know if you 
don't ask. I know one isp in the same boat, 150 towers, lots of hills, I can 
see the price being too high. But the other part where they help identify best 
locations to cover from may be worth it. Less towers and more coverage is 
always good. Planting people seeds would be good too. But they're hard to keep 
watered.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 6:50 PM SmarterBroadband 
mailto:li...@sbb.net>> wrote:
I would love to give it a go.   But the pricing model of per site does not work 
for us.  We have to have many small sites because of hills and trees , over 90 
currently.   I can see if you had a few mega sites it could make sense.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On 
Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 10:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

much much more than free
but much much less input and much much much more output
I had the same question, and skepticism, until i saw the data and applied it to 
our real world.
The way I look at it, radio mobile costs zero. A no line of site generates 
zero, so thats a wash on its face. but the truck rolled and other jobs werent 
done, so theres a net loss. that in itself probably scales to the price over 
the course of the customer we missed.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?

From: Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] CNHeat

I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP 
stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a no 
line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu happened 
to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal (we actually 
missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt grab it)

there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long term.

we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last few 
months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be revisited 
in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320 to make room 
for 450 cbrs stuff

your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have a 
best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll know 
youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.

I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the time 
id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue options. And 
this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy perfect too

like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as good 
as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.

This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my Access 
points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in NLOS that 
didnt need to be

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Dan Sullivan via AF]

Pricing in Chuck email.

For Hiawatha Broadband they were able to use cnHeat on main site to find a farm 
silo install and then hop over to uncovered town.

Perhaps just doing your mega sites can get you to more of your small sites.  If 
you have lots of sites, we will help you further on pricing.

From: AF  On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 6:50 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

I would love to give it a go.   But the pricing model of per site does not work 
for us.  We have to have many small sites because of hills and trees , over 90 
currently.   I can see if you had a few mega sites it could make sense.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 10:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

much much more than free
but much much less input and much much much more output
I had the same question, and skepticism, until i saw the data and applied it to 
our real world.
The way I look at it, radio mobile costs zero. A no line of site generates 
zero, so thats a wash on its face. but the truck rolled and other jobs werent 
done, so theres a net loss. that in itself probably scales to the price over 
the course of the customer we missed.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?

From: Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] CNHeat

I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP 
stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a no 
line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu happened 
to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal (we actually 
missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt grab it)

there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long term.

we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last few 
months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be revisited 
in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320 to make room 
for 450 cbrs stuff

your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have a 
best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll know 
youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.

I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the time 
id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue options. And 
this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy perfect too

like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as good 
as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.

This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my Access 
points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in NLOS that 
didnt need to be

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Dan Sullivan via AF]

Thought I would answer cnHeat questions from this thread.

As low as $12.50 / month / site.  Less if pay up-front.  If you purchase a 
larger quantity of sites, we will speak privately and come in with a lower 
price.

If you want to try it out, two options:

  *   If you have recently purchased four Cambium APs, we will provide a site 
for FREE for a year.  You also will get up to 500 FREE addresses for covered 
homes that you can use to target market.
  *   If you have not purchased four Cambium APs, we will provide a demo site 
for free for a couple of weeks.

cnHeat tells you minimum height to install at every square meter.  Find the 
best place x, y, z to install on every property (unless need more than an 80’ 
pole).

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 12:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?

From: Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] CNHeat

I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP 
stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a no 
line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu happened 
to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal (we actually 
missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt grab it)

there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long term.

we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last few 
months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be revisited 
in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320 to make room 
for 450 cbrs stuff

your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have a 
best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll know 
youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.

I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the time 
id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue options. And 
this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy perfect too

like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as good 
as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.

This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my Access 
points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in NLOS that 
didnt need to be

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Price Gouging

[Matt Hoppes]

We are doing it with one of the county governments we service. 

They probably have an arrangement to use ATT or something. Why would you pay 
for a build when you have two other carriers already there?

> On Mar 27, 2020, at 5:02 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> 
> I'm guessing the telco's are exempt from price gouging.  We just saw an 
> emergency underground locate come through so that AT could do a 2000' bore 
> into a building to provide 'covid19 command center' There are already 2 other 
> fiber providers in the building, and we could reach it via Microwave.  I'm 
> thinking the sales guy made his yearly commission on that circuit, as I can't 
> see AT doing an install at that speed out of the goodness of their 
> heart   I'm guessing similar things are being done all over the country.
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

[Andrew Haninger]

Try a local wildlife rehabber group. These are often volunteers, so
it's more of a passion than a paycheck. They also likely have good
contacts with the state DNR as they usually need licenses to do rehab.
That's what it's like in Ohio, anyway. Not really sure about Indy.

Like Jaime said, eye or face protection would be good. Thick
"gauntlet" gloves that go up to your elbow would be better.

You're probably out of luck, though.

Andy

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 10:11 AM Roland Houin  wrote:
>
> We have a tower where we need to do some upgrades etc.
>
> Ospreys have returned a few days ago.
>
> Does anyone know who to contact (Indiana) to make sure we don’t get in 
> trouble..
>
>
>
>
>
> No one at the DNR seems to be working…
>
>
>
>
>
> Roland Houin
>
> Fourway.Net
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

[Jaime Solorza]

Wear eye protection

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 9:56 AM Roland Houin  wrote:

> We can do some work below the nest
>
> It’s on top of the tower
>
> Our equipment is just below it.  The nest uses our standoff’s for part of
> it’s support
>
>
>
> We have done work 50’+ below the nest.
>
> Still trying to get someone from the dnr to confirm what we can do
>
>
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2020 10:35 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower
>
>
>
> Can you get work done without touching the nests?
>
> On 3/27/2020 10:25 AM, Roland Houin wrote:
>
> The ospreys have just returned.  Not likely to have eggs yet.
>
> This is next to a lake & lots of bird watchers have eyes on the tower.
>
>
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2020 10:20 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower
>
>
>
> I'm in Texas and I am having to delay replacing a dead tree because a
> Robin built a nest in it and is in the process of sitting on her two little
> blue eggs to hatch them. I probably would have decided to delay if I had
> known it but evidently the landscaper says it is a law that you can't
> destrub a native birds nest that is active. I have no diea if that was a
> federal or state law.
>
> I did find the following:
>
> https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/removing-bird-nests/
>
> I also found a pest control persons website that states:
>
> If the bird’s nest on your boat belongs to a sparrow, starling, or pigeon,
> you may remove it. If it belongs to any other bird and the nest has been
> built and is being tended (eggs or not), you are out of luck.
>
>
>
> No idea if any of this applies to you but there it is.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:11 AM Roland Houin  wrote:
>
> We have a tower where we need to do some upgrades etc.
>
> Ospreys have returned a few days ago.
>
> Does anyone know who to contact (Indiana) to make sure we don’t get in
> trouble..
>
>
>
>
>
> No one at the DNR seems to be working…
>
>
>
>
>
> Roland Houin
>
> Fourway.Net
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[Steve Jones]

you would have to talk to them. but it was much less than we expected

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 1:53 PM Jason Wilson 
wrote:

> What is the pricing?
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 10:53 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> potato potatoe
>>
>> We are pulling the trigger on it. Im just thinking how much more bits I
>> can get out of our network now. Our smartaligner just arrived, so we will
>> be able to put in super accurate info. Problem customers, we have a tool
>> now to identify better mounting locations, new installs I know will be in
>> the best location instead of the easiest (yeah, no, I know installers) but
>> at least the probabilities are much more better
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 11:41 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> Yep, you’re arguing about semantics.  The difference between “free” and
>>> “a tool that pays for itself” is hard to see.  Some people would use the
>>> term “no-brainer”.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Whether it in fact pays for itself is a more substantive question.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2020 10:58 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's a figure of speech.
>>>
>>> On 3/27/2020 11:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> It's not free, it's more of an investment.  Or a tool that pays for
>>> itself.
>>>
>>>
>>> There's no such thing as free, Bernie.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> 
>>> Suite 1337
>>> 
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 4:08 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Cheat is effectively free if you can identify the right number of
>>> customers who you passed over because of a failed installation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe since George made the same commute every day he could file one
>>> recurring flight plan for the whole year.
>>>
>>> On 3/26/2020 10:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> They never mentioned this on The Jetsons.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF   *On
>>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:48 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We've had flying cars for a long time, but we call them helicopters.
>>> You could make it thing powered by ducted jets and it'll just look cooler
>>> and burn way more fuel.  The bigger problem isn't building a flying car,
>>> it's that the driver needs to be a licensed pilot and file flight plans.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/25/2020 9:10 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey, I asked first for RF goggles and an R2D2 tower monkey, no cutting
>>> in line.  Oh, and where’s my flying car?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF   *On
>>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:04 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd hope we go onsite. Id pay slot more for cnheat if it did the
>>> installs too. Like shoots a rocket from cambium hq, lands on the spot,
>>> nanotech installs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:39 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>> Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite, especially for trees
>>> near the site.  Stupid trees grow, or blow in the wind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever those really tall
>>> skinny trees are, not the evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that
>>> grows 5-10 feet per in height per year.  The trees had grown to be taller
>>> than the house, and they took 2 of them out with a chainsaw.  Everything
>>> was fine when the wind was from the north, but with a strong wind from the
>>> south, the link would completely drop.  She wouldn’t believe me the trees
>>> were bending in the wind, until I had a tech climb up on the second story
>>> roof and plug a little amplified speaker into the tone alignment port of
>>> the Cambium SM.  You could watch the trees sway back and forth and listen
>>> to the tone rise and fall, and drop out when the wind blew hard enough.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> that would be a discussion to have with them.
>>>
>>> LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch with it in 30 seconds
>>> is amazing. We are 99.9% on pulling the trigger
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>> 900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was a logical explanation
>>> to where it worked and where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is basically
>>> looking for LOS, and if you asked it to evaluate 

[AFMUG] OT: Price Gouging

[Nate Burke]

I'm guessing the telco's are exempt from price gouging.  We just saw an 
emergency underground locate come through so that AT could do a 2000' 
bore into a building to provide 'covid19 command center' There are 
already 2 other fiber providers in the building, and we could reach it 
via Microwave.  I'm thinking the sales guy made his yearly commission on 
that circuit, as I can't see AT doing an install at that speed out of 
the goodness of their heart   I'm guessing similar things are being 
done all over the country.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[Jason Wilson]

What is the pricing?

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 10:53 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> potato potatoe
>
> We are pulling the trigger on it. Im just thinking how much more bits I
> can get out of our network now. Our smartaligner just arrived, so we will
> be able to put in super accurate info. Problem customers, we have a tool
> now to identify better mounting locations, new installs I know will be in
> the best location instead of the easiest (yeah, no, I know installers) but
> at least the probabilities are much more better
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 11:41 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Yep, you’re arguing about semantics.  The difference between “free” and
>> “a tool that pays for itself” is hard to see.  Some people would use the
>> term “no-brainer”.
>>
>>
>>
>> Whether it in fact pays for itself is a more substantive question.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2020 10:58 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>
>>
>>
>> It's a figure of speech.
>>
>> On 3/27/2020 11:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> It's not free, it's more of an investment.  Or a tool that pays for
>> itself.
>>
>>
>> There's no such thing as free, Bernie.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> 
>> Suite 1337
>> 
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 4:08 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Cheat is effectively free if you can identify the right number of
>> customers who you passed over because of a failed installation.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>> Maybe since George made the same commute every day he could file one
>> recurring flight plan for the whole year.
>>
>> On 3/26/2020 10:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> They never mentioned this on The Jetsons.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:48 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>
>>
>>
>> We've had flying cars for a long time, but we call them helicopters.  You
>> could make it thing powered by ducted jets and it'll just look cooler and
>> burn way more fuel.  The bigger problem isn't building a flying car, it's
>> that the driver needs to be a licensed pilot and file flight plans.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/25/2020 9:10 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> Hey, I asked first for RF goggles and an R2D2 tower monkey, no cutting in
>> line.  Oh, and where’s my flying car?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd hope we go onsite. Id pay slot more for cnheat if it did the installs
>> too. Like shoots a rocket from cambium hq, lands on the spot, nanotech
>> installs
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:39 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite, especially for trees
>> near the site.  Stupid trees grow, or blow in the wind.
>>
>>
>>
>> I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever those really tall
>> skinny trees are, not the evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that
>> grows 5-10 feet per in height per year.  The trees had grown to be taller
>> than the house, and they took 2 of them out with a chainsaw.  Everything
>> was fine when the wind was from the north, but with a strong wind from the
>> south, the link would completely drop.  She wouldn’t believe me the trees
>> were bending in the wind, until I had a tech climb up on the second story
>> roof and plug a little amplified speaker into the tone alignment port of
>> the Cambium SM.  You could watch the trees sway back and forth and listen
>> to the tone rise and fall, and drop out when the wind blew hard enough.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>
>>
>>
>> that would be a discussion to have with them.
>>
>> LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch with it in 30 seconds
>> is amazing. We are 99.9% on pulling the trigger
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> 900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was a logical explanation
>> to where it worked and where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is basically
>> looking for LOS, and if you asked it to evaluate NLOS paths, now the LIDAR
>> data would have to distinguish maples from pines from buildings.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 12:08 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[Steve Jones]

potato potatoe

We are pulling the trigger on it. Im just thinking how much more bits I can
get out of our network now. Our smartaligner just arrived, so we will be
able to put in super accurate info. Problem customers, we have a tool now
to identify better mounting locations, new installs I know will be in the
best location instead of the easiest (yeah, no, I know installers) but at
least the probabilities are much more better

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 11:41 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Yep, you’re arguing about semantics.  The difference between “free” and “a
> tool that pays for itself” is hard to see.  Some people would use the term
> “no-brainer”.
>
>
>
> Whether it in fact pays for itself is a more substantive question.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2020 10:58 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> It's a figure of speech.
>
> On 3/27/2020 11:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> It's not free, it's more of an investment.  Or a tool that pays for
> itself.
>
>
> There's no such thing as free, Bernie.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 4:08 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> Cheat is effectively free if you can identify the right number of
> customers who you passed over because of a failed installation.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Maybe since George made the same commute every day he could file one
> recurring flight plan for the whole year.
>
> On 3/26/2020 10:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> They never mentioned this on The Jetsons.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:48 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> We've had flying cars for a long time, but we call them helicopters.  You
> could make it thing powered by ducted jets and it'll just look cooler and
> burn way more fuel.  The bigger problem isn't building a flying car, it's
> that the driver needs to be a licensed pilot and file flight plans.
>
>
>
> On 3/25/2020 9:10 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Hey, I asked first for RF goggles and an R2D2 tower monkey, no cutting in
> line.  Oh, and where’s my flying car?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> I'd hope we go onsite. Id pay slot more for cnheat if it did the installs
> too. Like shoots a rocket from cambium hq, lands on the spot, nanotech
> installs
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:39 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite, especially for trees
> near the site.  Stupid trees grow, or blow in the wind.
>
>
>
> I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever those really tall
> skinny trees are, not the evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that
> grows 5-10 feet per in height per year.  The trees had grown to be taller
> than the house, and they took 2 of them out with a chainsaw.  Everything
> was fine when the wind was from the north, but with a strong wind from the
> south, the link would completely drop.  She wouldn’t believe me the trees
> were bending in the wind, until I had a tech climb up on the second story
> roof and plug a little amplified speaker into the tone alignment port of
> the Cambium SM.  You could watch the trees sway back and forth and listen
> to the tone rise and fall, and drop out when the wind blew hard enough.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> that would be a discussion to have with them.
>
> LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch with it in 30 seconds is
> amazing. We are 99.9% on pulling the trigger
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was a logical explanation to
> where it worked and where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is basically
> looking for LOS, and if you asked it to evaluate NLOS paths, now the LIDAR
> data would have to distinguish maples from pines from buildings.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 12:08 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
> Thanks. I'm watching an old webinar where only 5GHz and 3.5 GHz was
> supported.  900 was on the road map.
>
> Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
> > At least 900, 2.4, 3.5, and 5
> >
> > Jeff Broadwick
> > CTIconnect
> > 312-205-2519 Office
> > 574-220-7826 Cell
> > jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
> >
> >> On Mar 25, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Jay Weekley 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> What frequencies does it support?
> >>
> >> ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> >>> How do they charge for it?  Can you do work for the next guy over?
> >>> *From:* Steve Jones

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[Steve Jones]

It equates to free if you are able to identify customers you had previously
passed over, written off as uninstallable and were able to come back and
get them based on info obtained from CNHeat. Revenue we didnt have, but
then have

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 10:57 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> It's not free, it's more of an investment.  Or a tool that pays for itself.
>
> There's no such thing as free, Bernie.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 4:08 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Cheat is effectively free if you can identify the right number of
>> customers who you passed over because of a failed installation.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe since George made the same commute every day he could file one
>>> recurring flight plan for the whole year.
>>> On 3/26/2020 10:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> They never mentioned this on The Jetsons.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF   *On
>>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:48 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We've had flying cars for a long time, but we call them helicopters.
>>> You could make it thing powered by ducted jets and it'll just look cooler
>>> and burn way more fuel.  The bigger problem isn't building a flying car,
>>> it's that the driver needs to be a licensed pilot and file flight plans.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/25/2020 9:10 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey, I asked first for RF goggles and an R2D2 tower monkey, no cutting
>>> in line.  Oh, and where’s my flying car?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF   *On
>>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:04 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd hope we go onsite. Id pay slot more for cnheat if it did the
>>> installs too. Like shoots a rocket from cambium hq, lands on the spot,
>>> nanotech installs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:39 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>> Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite, especially for trees
>>> near the site.  Stupid trees grow, or blow in the wind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever those really tall
>>> skinny trees are, not the evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that
>>> grows 5-10 feet per in height per year.  The trees had grown to be taller
>>> than the house, and they took 2 of them out with a chainsaw.  Everything
>>> was fine when the wind was from the north, but with a strong wind from the
>>> south, the link would completely drop.  She wouldn’t believe me the trees
>>> were bending in the wind, until I had a tech climb up on the second story
>>> roof and plug a little amplified speaker into the tone alignment port of
>>> the Cambium SM.  You could watch the trees sway back and forth and listen
>>> to the tone rise and fall, and drop out when the wind blew hard enough.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> that would be a discussion to have with them.
>>>
>>> LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch with it in 30 seconds
>>> is amazing. We are 99.9% on pulling the trigger
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>> 900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was a logical explanation
>>> to where it worked and where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is basically
>>> looking for LOS, and if you asked it to evaluate NLOS paths, now the LIDAR
>>> data would have to distinguish maples from pines from buildings.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 12:08 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>>
>>> Thanks. I'm watching an old webinar where only 5GHz and 3.5 GHz was
>>> supported.  900 was on the road map.
>>>
>>> Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
>>> > At least 900, 2.4, 3.5, and 5
>>> >
>>> > Jeff Broadwick
>>> > CTIconnect
>>> > 312-205-2519 Office
>>> > 574-220-7826 Cell
>>> > jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>> >
>>> >> On Mar 25, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Jay Weekley 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> What frequencies does it support?
>>> >>
>>> >> ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> >>> How do they charge for it?  Can you do work for the next guy over?
>>> >>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 6:20 PM
>>> >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>> >>> I would bet they would be able to get something arranged. You never
>>> know if you don't ask. I know one isp in the same boat, 150 towers, lots of
>>> hills, I can see the price being too high. But the other part where they
>>> help identify best locations to cover from may be worth it. Less towers and
>>> more 

Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

[Daniel White]

On the Facebook tower climbing groups I am on, my impression is usually
you are only allowed to climb to verify they are using the nest and then
all work has to cease.  Of course, those rules may be State to State.

I did find this: 
https://www.fws.gov/raleigh/pdfs/CommunicationTowerGuidanceLetter12232013.pdf


photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766

Roland Houin wrote on 3/27/20 09:55:
>
> We can do some work below the nest
>
> It’s on top of the tower
>
> Our equipment is just below it.  The nest uses our standoff’s for part
> of it’s support
>
>  
>
> We have done work 50’+ below the nest.
>
> Still trying to get someone from the dnr to confirm what we can do
>
>  
>
> Roland
>
>  
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2020 10:35 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower
>
>  
>
> Can you get work done without touching the nests?
>
> On 3/27/2020 10:25 AM, Roland Houin wrote:
>
> The ospreys have just returned.  Not likely to have eggs yet.
>
> This is next to a lake & lots of bird watchers have eyes on the tower.
>
>  
>
> Roland
>
>  
>
> *From:* AF 
>  *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2020 10:20 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower
>
>  
>
> I'm in Texas and I am having to delay replacing a dead tree
> because a Robin built a nest in it and is in the process of
> sitting on her two little blue eggs to hatch them. I probably
> would have decided to delay if I had known it but evidently the
> landscaper says it is a law that you can't destrub a native birds
> nest that is active. I have no diea if that was a federal or state
> law.
>
> I did find the following:
>
> https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/removing-bird-nests/ 
>
> I also found a pest control persons website that states:
>
> If the bird’s nest on your boat belongs to a sparrow, starling, or
> pigeon, you may remove it. If it belongs to any other bird and the
> nest has been built and is being tended (eggs or not), you are out
> of luck.
>
>  
>
> No idea if any of this applies to you but there it is. 
>
>  
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:11 AM Roland Houin  > wrote:
>
> We have a tower where we need to do some upgrades etc.
>
> Ospreys have returned a few days ago.
>
> Does anyone know who to contact (Indiana) to make sure we
> don’t get in trouble..
>
>  
>
>  
>
> No one at the DNR seems to be working…
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Roland Houin
>
> Fourway.Net
>
>  
>
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>  
>
> -- 
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[Ken Hohhof]

Yep, you’re arguing about semantics.  The difference between “free” and “a tool 
that pays for itself” is hard to see.  Some people would use the term 
“no-brainer”.

 

Whether it in fact pays for itself is a more substantive question.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 10:58 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

 

It's a figure of speech.  

On 3/27/2020 11:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

It's not free, it's more of an investment.  Or a tool that pays for itself. 


There's no such thing as free, Bernie.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 4:08 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Cheat is effectively free if you can identify the right number of customers who 
you passed over because of a failed installation. 

 

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Maybe since George made the same commute every day he could file one recurring 
flight plan for the whole year.

On 3/26/2020 10:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

They never mentioned this on The Jetsons.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

 

We've had flying cars for a long time, but we call them helicopters.  You could 
make it thing powered by ducted jets and it'll just look cooler and burn way 
more fuel.  The bigger problem isn't building a flying car, it's that the 
driver needs to be a licensed pilot and file flight plans.

 

On 3/25/2020 9:10 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Hey, I asked first for RF goggles and an R2D2 tower monkey, no cutting in line. 
 Oh, and where’s my flying car?

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

 

I'd hope we go onsite. Id pay slot more for cnheat if it did the installs too. 
Like shoots a rocket from cambium hq, lands on the spot, nanotech installs

 

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:39 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite, especially for trees near 
the site.  Stupid trees grow, or blow in the wind.

 

I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever those really tall skinny 
trees are, not the evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that grows 5-10 
feet per in height per year.  The trees had grown to be taller than the house, 
and they took 2 of them out with a chainsaw.  Everything was fine when the wind 
was from the north, but with a strong wind from the south, the link would 
completely drop.  She wouldn’t believe me the trees were bending in the wind, 
until I had a tech climb up on the second story roof and plug a little 
amplified speaker into the tone alignment port of the Cambium SM.  You could 
watch the trees sway back and forth and listen to the tone rise and fall, and 
drop out when the wind blew hard enough.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

 

that would be a discussion to have with them.

LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch with it in 30 seconds is 
amazing. We are 99.9% on pulling the trigger

 

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was a logical explanation to 
where it worked and where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is basically 
looking for LOS, and if you asked it to evaluate NLOS paths, now the LIDAR data 
would have to distinguish maples from pines from buildings.


-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 12:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

Thanks. I'm watching an old webinar where only 5GHz and 3.5 GHz was supported.  
900 was on the road map.

Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
> At least 900, 2.4, 3.5, and 5
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com  
>
>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Jay Weekley >  > wrote:
>>
>> What frequencies does it support?
>>
>> ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:
>>> How do they charge for it?  Can you do work for the next guy over?
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 6:20 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>> I would bet they would be able to get something arranged. You never know if 
>>> you don't ask. I know one isp in the same boat, 150 towers, lots of hills, 
>>> I 

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[Adam Moffett]

It's a figure of speech.

On 3/27/2020 11:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
It's not free, it's more of an investment.  Or a tool that pays for 
itself.


There's no such thing as free, Bernie.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 4:08 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


Cheat is effectively free if you can identify the right number of
customers who you passed over because of a failed installation.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Maybe since George made the same commute every day he could
file one recurring flight plan for the whole year.

On 3/26/2020 10:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


They never mentioned this on The Jetsons.

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:48 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

We've had flying cars for a long time, but we call them
helicopters.  You could make it thing powered by ducted jets
and it'll just look cooler and burn way more fuel.  The
bigger problem isn't building a flying car, it's that the
driver needs to be a licensed pilot and file flight plans.

On 3/25/2020 9:10 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Hey, I asked first for RF goggles and an R2D2 tower
monkey, no cutting in line.  Oh, and where’s my flying car?

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:04 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

I'd hope we go onsite. Id pay slot more for cnheat if it
did the installs too. Like shoots a rocket from cambium
hq, lands on the spot, nanotech installs

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:39 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite,
especially for trees near the site. Stupid trees
grow, or blow in the wind.

I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever
those really tall skinny trees are, not the
evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that
grows 5-10 feet per in height per year.  The trees
had grown to be taller than the house, and they took
2 of them out with a chainsaw. Everything was fine
when the wind was from the north, but with a strong
wind from the south, the link would completely drop. 
She wouldn’t believe me the trees were bending in the
wind, until I had a tech climb up on the second story
roof and plug a little amplified speaker into the
tone alignment port of the Cambium SM.  You could
watch the trees sway back and forth and listen to the
tone rise and fall, and drop out when the wind blew
hard enough.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of
*Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

that would be a discussion to have with them.

LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch
with it in 30 seconds is amazing. We are 99.9% on
pulling the trigger

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was
a logical explanation to where it worked and
where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is
basically looking for LOS, and if you asked it to
evaluate NLOS paths, now the LIDAR data would
have to distinguish maples from pines from buildings.


-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of
Jay Weekley
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 12:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

Thanks. I'm watching an old webinar where only
5GHz and 3.5 GHz was supported.  900 was on the
road map.

Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
> At least 900, 2.4, 3.5, and 5
>

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[Josh Luthman]

It's not free, it's more of an investment.  Or a tool that pays for itself.

There's no such thing as free, Bernie.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 4:08 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Cheat is effectively free if you can identify the right number of
> customers who you passed over because of a failed installation.
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Maybe since George made the same commute every day he could file one
>> recurring flight plan for the whole year.
>> On 3/26/2020 10:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> They never mentioned this on The Jetsons.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:48 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>
>>
>>
>> We've had flying cars for a long time, but we call them helicopters.  You
>> could make it thing powered by ducted jets and it'll just look cooler and
>> burn way more fuel.  The bigger problem isn't building a flying car, it's
>> that the driver needs to be a licensed pilot and file flight plans.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/25/2020 9:10 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> Hey, I asked first for RF goggles and an R2D2 tower monkey, no cutting in
>> line.  Oh, and where’s my flying car?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd hope we go onsite. Id pay slot more for cnheat if it did the installs
>> too. Like shoots a rocket from cambium hq, lands on the spot, nanotech
>> installs
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:39 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Of course that 5x5 patch has to be verified onsite, especially for trees
>> near the site.  Stupid trees grow, or blow in the wind.
>>
>>
>>
>> I had a customer once with a windbreak of whatever those really tall
>> skinny trees are, not the evergreens, some kind or poplar or something that
>> grows 5-10 feet per in height per year.  The trees had grown to be taller
>> than the house, and they took 2 of them out with a chainsaw.  Everything
>> was fine when the wind was from the north, but with a strong wind from the
>> south, the link would completely drop.  She wouldn’t believe me the trees
>> were bending in the wind, until I had a tech climb up on the second story
>> roof and plug a little amplified speaker into the tone alignment port of
>> the Cambium SM.  You could watch the trees sway back and forth and listen
>> to the tone rise and fall, and drop out when the wind blew hard enough.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:55 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>
>>
>>
>> that would be a discussion to have with them.
>>
>> LOS is the gold standard, and finding a 5x5 patch with it in 30 seconds
>> is amazing. We are 99.9% on pulling the trigger
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> 900 is magic not science.  I never felt there was a logical explanation
>> to where it worked and where it didn't.  I also believe cnHeat is basically
>> looking for LOS, and if you asked it to evaluate NLOS paths, now the LIDAR
>> data would have to distinguish maples from pines from buildings.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 12:08 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>>
>> Thanks. I'm watching an old webinar where only 5GHz and 3.5 GHz was
>> supported.  900 was on the road map.
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
>> > At least 900, 2.4, 3.5, and 5
>> >
>> > Jeff Broadwick
>> > CTIconnect
>> > 312-205-2519 Office
>> > 574-220-7826 Cell
>> > jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>> >
>> >> On Mar 25, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Jay Weekley 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What frequencies does it support?
>> >>
>> >> ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> >>> How do they charge for it?  Can you do work for the next guy over?
>> >>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 6:20 PM
>> >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>> >>> I would bet they would be able to get something arranged. You never
>> know if you don't ask. I know one isp in the same boat, 150 towers, lots of
>> hills, I can see the price being too high. But the other part where they
>> help identify best locations to cover from may be worth it. Less towers and
>> more coverage is always good. Planting people seeds would be good too. But
>> they're hard to keep watered.
>> >>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 6:50 PM SmarterBroadband  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I would love to give it a go. But the pricing model of per site
>> >>> does not work for us.  We have to have many small sites because of
>> >>> hills and trees , over 90 currently.   I can see if you had a few
>> >>> mega sites it could make 

Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

[Roland Houin]

We can do some work below the nest

It’s on top of the tower

Our equipment is just below it.  The nest uses our standoff’s for part of it’s 
support

 

We have done work 50’+ below the nest.

Still trying to get someone from the dnr to confirm what we can do

 

Roland

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 10:35 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

 

Can you get work done without touching the nests?

On 3/27/2020 10:25 AM, Roland Houin wrote:

The ospreys have just returned.  Not likely to have eggs yet.

This is next to a lake & lots of bird watchers have eyes on the tower.

 

Roland

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 10:20 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

 

I'm in Texas and I am having to delay replacing a dead tree because a Robin 
built a nest in it and is in the process of sitting on her two little blue eggs 
to hatch them. I probably would have decided to delay if I had known it but 
evidently the landscaper says it is a law that you can't destrub a native birds 
nest that is active. I have no diea if that was a federal or state law.

I did find the following:

https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/removing-bird-nests/ 

I also found a pest control persons website that states:

If the bird’s nest on your boat belongs to a sparrow, starling, or pigeon, you 
may remove it. If it belongs to any other bird and the nest has been built and 
is being tended (eggs or not), you are out of luck.

 

No idea if any of this applies to you but there it is. 

 

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:11 AM Roland Houin mailto:rho...@fourway.net> > wrote:

We have a tower where we need to do some upgrades etc.

Ospreys have returned a few days ago.

Does anyone know who to contact (Indiana) to make sure we don’t get in trouble..

 

 

No one at the DNR seems to be working…

 

 

Roland Houin

Fourway.Net

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




 

-- 

Lewis Bergman

325-439-0533 Cell





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - will spare laptop battery go bad in storage?

[Josh Luthman]

Just buy a Thinkpad T570/470 so you have a better laptop and can find parts
for ages.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 7:03 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I think we plateaued a few years ago. I'm still running a desktop from 10
> years ago and the only time it struggles is when my 32 GB of RAM fills up
> with everything I've got going on (mostly Chrome) or when processing videos
> for TBW. Having a faster CPU would be nice for single-threaded applications
> like ArcMap. I need to build a new one, but that's mostly because I can't
> afford the downtime of formatting my 10 year old Windows 10 install and
> then reinstalling everything.
>
> I don't even buy new laptops anymore. Pay half as much for a laptop that's
> a couple years old, but still does everything great. Better off doing that
> and then buying a great SSD to stuff in it. You get a blazing fast machine
> that still costs less.
>
> Then again, I've only had to buy a new laptop battery once, ever. *shrugs*
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 26, 2020 9:20:38 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT - will spare laptop battery go bad in storage?
>
> Maybe I’ve got an old lap.
>
>
>
> Actually since it was top of the line everything at the time, it’s still
> not that different from the latest version.  And it looks and works like
> new.  Only 6th gen i7, but CPU performance is only increasing incrementally
> between generations these days.  I think the biggest improvement in the
> current version is they moved the camera to the top of the bezel.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 6:34 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - will spare laptop battery go bad in storage?
>
>
>
> But it's still an old laptop...
>
> On 3/26/2020 6:06 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Hey, the battery was only $70.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 5:55 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - will spare laptop battery go bad in storage?
>
>
>
> Are you married to that laptop?  Just get a whole new machine.
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Display-Graphics-Keyboard-A515-43-R19L/dp/B07RF1XD36
> I only look for things with a wired Ethernet port.  Dongles drive me
> crazy.
>
>
> On 3/26/2020 5:50 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I’m just afraid that by 2022 they won’t be available anymore.  Or I guess
> if they are, maybe they will have been sitting in an Amazon warehouse for 2
> years?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 5:44 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - will spare laptop battery go bad in storage?
>
>
>
> Hit or miss on these. They're so cheap anymore on old laptops, if it's bad
> I just get another, I don't know how they store them but its 50 50 on good
> or dead
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 5:40 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> I have a 4 year old Dell XPS 15 and I just replaced the Li-ion battery for
> the second time.  I guess that’s not shocking.
>
>
>
> But Dell wasn’t even selling replacement batteries the first time.  I did
> get a free one from them because they had a problem with the original
> batteries swelling.  That replacement didn’t swell, but the runtime had
> decreased dramatically.
>
>
>
> The no-name replacement (bought from Amazon) fit perfectly, and looked
> just like the Dell battery except for a sticker that I’m pretty sure covers
> the Dell name.  It’s a pretty nice laptop and I can’t guarantee I’ll be
> ready to retire it 2 years from now when this battery will probably need
> replacing.  Amazon still has them in stock, should I order another one?
>
>
>
> Or is putting a spare battery on the shelf stupid, will it just gradually
> discharge and go bad?  It’s not very difficult to change the battery, would
> it help to swap batteries every 6 months or something?  I actually saw
> something on the Internet that Li-ion batteries should be stored partially
> not fully charged.  And of course they can’t put anything on the Internet
> unless it’s true.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

[Cameron Crum]

I've written a trucking app before. A CPA who worked exclusively for
truckers wanted an app that would take the routes traveled and determine
mileage in every county they traveled in. Something to do with being able
to write stuff off at a more granular level. This would be a fairly simple
thing I would think.



On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:15 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I thought the universal platform among truckers was CB Radio.
>
>
>
> Maybe I need to update my info.  Looks like they have evolved to
> smartphones and apps like https://www.nexttrucking.com/
>
> Still, you’re talking about truckers who are literally hauling rocks.
> Didn’t Fred Flintstone work at the gravel pit?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2020 8:55 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone
>
>
>
> Generally the more universal the framework, the worse it is.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"can...@believewireless.net" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:43:50 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone
>
> There are several frameworks where you can create an iOS, Android and
> Windows app with one code base.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 11:32 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> You'd need to build an Android app and iPhone app.  And all the other
> problems that come with it (installing it, versions, maintaining it,
> updating it through major OS).  Something universal for such a basic need
> is far superior for your use case.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 11:11 AM Brian Webster 
> wrote:
>
> Problem with an app is that you have to get everyone with scales to
> connect etc. I can imagine a lot of places with scales don’t have an
> internet connection.
>
>
>
> Wondering if something like an RFID system couldn’t be set up. Data
> written to the tag, law enforcement needs to know the info they can just
> scan it. What do those in cab systems do that you see in the DOT
> checkpoints? Can you just use that system?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:56 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone
>
>
>
> Great ideas from everyone.  I am leaning more towards an app.  Like self
> checkout.  Hit the button, select the type of material and it registers the
> load with the office.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2020, at 8:13 AM, Brian Webster 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Google Voice lets you text from your account using the web browser. Scale
> house can set up a free Google Voice account. You can text with pictures or
> other mms content. Could the scale operator just ask for the phone number
> using the intercom, type it in and hit send? Bluetooth is going to be a
> problem. Drivers won’t have it turned on, crappy phones won’t connect to it
> etc. I like the taking the picture of the monitor especially if the monitor
> is displaying a QR code. Weight would be there, truck number and a QR code
> link to the official ticket record if they really need it. Put up a big
> enough monitor so the driver can take the picture right from the cab.
> Wondering if the electronic log systems could not have a camera installed
> to take the picture or scan the QR code and have it automatically entered
> in to their logs. The same camera could be used and left running as a dash
> cam as well in case there are ever any accidents.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2020 9:30 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone
>
>
>
> I like Carls idea the best - any modern phone will read the QR code.  Have
> it translate to a URL with the PDF?
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 8:44 AM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
> Have them scan a QR code that brings up their ticket
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 

Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

[chuck]

I think that in some cases you cannot even go near the nest legally.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 8:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

According to one source I found it doesn't matter if the nest has eggs or not. 
It only matters if the bird is actively using the nest, tending.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:26 AM Roland Houin  wrote:

  The ospreys have just returned.  Not likely to have eggs yet.

  This is next to a lake & lots of bird watchers have eyes on the tower.



  Roland



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
  Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 10:20 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower



  I'm in Texas and I am having to delay replacing a dead tree because a Robin 
built a nest in it and is in the process of sitting on her two little blue eggs 
to hatch them. I probably would have decided to delay if I had known it but 
evidently the landscaper says it is a law that you can't destrub a native birds 
nest that is active. I have no diea if that was a federal or state law.

  I did find the following:

  https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/removing-bird-nests/ 

  I also found a pest control persons website that states:

  If the bird’s nest on your boat belongs to a sparrow, starling, or pigeon, 
you may remove it. If it belongs to any other bird and the nest has been built 
and is being tended (eggs or not), you are out of luck.



  No idea if any of this applies to you but there it is. 



  On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:11 AM Roland Houin  wrote:

We have a tower where we need to do some upgrades etc.

Ospreys have returned a few days ago.

Does anyone know who to contact (Indiana) to make sure we don’t get in 
trouble..





No one at the DNR seems to be working…





Roland Houin

Fourway.Net



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com






  -- 

  Lewis Bergman

  325-439-0533 Cell

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 

Lewis Bergman 
325-439-0533 Cell



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

[chuck]

Yep, and CB is necessary to talk to the loaders.

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 8:14 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

I thought the universal platform among truckers was CB Radio.

 

Maybe I need to update my info.  Looks like they have evolved to smartphones 
and apps like https://www.nexttrucking.com/

Still, you’re talking about truckers who are literally hauling rocks.  Didn’t 
Fred Flintstone work at the gravel pit?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 8:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

 

Generally the more universal the framework, the worse it is.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "can...@believewireless.net" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:43:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

There are several frameworks where you can create an iOS, Android and Windows 
app with one code base.

 

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 11:32 AM Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  You'd need to build an Android app and iPhone app.  And all the other 
problems that come with it (installing it, versions, maintaining it, updating 
it through major OS).  Something universal for such a basic need is far 
superior for your use case.


   

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

   

   

  On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 11:11 AM Brian Webster  
wrote:

Problem with an app is that you have to get everyone with scales to connect 
etc. I can imagine a lot of places with scales don’t have an internet 
connection.

 

Wondering if something like an RFID system couldn’t be set up. Data written 
to the tag, law enforcement needs to know the info they can just scan it. What 
do those in cab systems do that you see in the DOT checkpoints? Can you just 
use that system?

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

 

Great ideas from everyone.  I am leaning more towards an app.  Like self 
checkout.  Hit the button, select the type of material and it registers the 
load with the office.

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Mar 26, 2020, at 8:13 AM, Brian Webster  wrote:

  

  Google Voice lets you text from your account using the web browser. Scale 
house can set up a free Google Voice account. You can text with pictures or 
other mms content. Could the scale operator just ask for the phone number using 
the intercom, type it in and hit send? Bluetooth is going to be a problem. 
Drivers won’t have it turned on, crappy phones won’t connect to it etc. I like 
the taking the picture of the monitor especially if the monitor is displaying a 
QR code. Weight would be there, truck number and a QR code link to the official 
ticket record if they really need it. Put up a big enough monitor so the driver 
can take the picture right from the cab. Wondering if the electronic log 
systems could not have a camera installed to take the picture or scan the QR 
code and have it automatically entered in to their logs. The same camera could 
be used and left running as a dash cam as well in case there are ever any 
accidents.

   

  Thank you,

  Brian Webster

  www.wirelessmapping.com

   

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 9:30 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

   

  I like Carls idea the best - any modern phone will read the QR code.  
Have it translate to a URL with the PDF?


   

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

   

   

  On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 8:44 AM Carl Peterson 
 wrote:

Have them scan a QR code that brings up their ticket 

 

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 5:28 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Getting out of the truck to go into the scale shack is a big part of 
the problem.  And having a bunch of sheets of paper in the cab is a problem too.

  Sent from my iPhone





  On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:09 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:



Seems like we’re overthinking it.  What exactly is the problem with 
the current system?

 

Is it the wasted paper?  I think someone suggested recycling the 
old slips.  Maybe they just need a bin for the drivers to throw the old slips 
in.

 

Look how hard it is to 

Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

[Lewis Bergman]

According to one source I found it doesn't matter if the nest has eggs or
not. It only matters if the bird is actively using the nest, tending.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:26 AM Roland Houin  wrote:

> The ospreys have just returned.  Not likely to have eggs yet.
>
> This is next to a lake & lots of bird watchers have eyes on the tower.
>
>
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2020 10:20 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower
>
>
>
> I'm in Texas and I am having to delay replacing a dead tree because a
> Robin built a nest in it and is in the process of sitting on her two little
> blue eggs to hatch them. I probably would have decided to delay if I had
> known it but evidently the landscaper says it is a law that you can't
> destrub a native birds nest that is active. I have no diea if that was a
> federal or state law.
>
> I did find the following:
>
> https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/removing-bird-nests/
>
> I also found a pest control persons website that states:
>
> If the bird’s nest on your boat belongs to a sparrow, starling, or pigeon,
> you may remove it. If it belongs to any other bird and the nest has been
> built and is being tended (eggs or not), you are out of luck.
>
>
>
> No idea if any of this applies to you but there it is.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:11 AM Roland Houin  wrote:
>
> We have a tower where we need to do some upgrades etc.
>
> Ospreys have returned a few days ago.
>
> Does anyone know who to contact (Indiana) to make sure we don’t get in
> trouble..
>
>
>
>
>
> No one at the DNR seems to be working…
>
>
>
>
>
> Roland Houin
>
> Fourway.Net
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

[Adam Moffett]

Can you get work done without touching the nests?

On 3/27/2020 10:25 AM, Roland Houin wrote:


The ospreys have just returned.  Not likely to have eggs yet.

This is next to a lake & lots of bird watchers have eyes on the tower.

Roland

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2020 10:20 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

I'm in Texas and I am having to delay replacing a dead tree because a 
Robin built a nest in it and is in the process of sitting on her two 
little blue eggs to hatch them. I probably would have decided to delay 
if I had known it but evidently the landscaper says it is a law that 
you can't destrub a native birds nest that is active. I have no diea 
if that was a federal or state law.


I did find the following:

https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/removing-bird-nests/

I also found a pest control persons website that states:

If the bird’s nest on your boat belongs to a sparrow, starling, or 
pigeon, you may remove it. If it belongs to any other bird and the 
nest has been built and is being tended (eggs or not), you are out of 
luck.


No idea if any of this applies to you but there it is.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:11 AM Roland Houin > wrote:


We have a tower where we need to do some upgrades etc.

Ospreys have returned a few days ago.

Does anyone know who to contact (Indiana) to make sure we don’t
get in trouble..

No one at the DNR seems to be working…

Roland Houin

Fourway.Net

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--

Lewis Bergman

325-439-0533 Cell


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

[Roland Houin]

The ospreys have just returned.  Not likely to have eggs yet.

This is next to a lake & lots of bird watchers have eyes on the tower.

 

Roland

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 10:20 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

 

I'm in Texas and I am having to delay replacing a dead tree because a Robin 
built a nest in it and is in the process of sitting on her two little blue eggs 
to hatch them. I probably would have decided to delay if I had known it but 
evidently the landscaper says it is a law that you can't destrub a native birds 
nest that is active. I have no diea if that was a federal or state law.

I did find the following:

https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/removing-bird-nests/ 

I also found a pest control persons website that states:

If the bird’s nest on your boat belongs to a sparrow, starling, or pigeon, you 
may remove it. If it belongs to any other bird and the nest has been built and 
is being tended (eggs or not), you are out of luck.

 

No idea if any of this applies to you but there it is. 

 

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:11 AM Roland Houin mailto:rho...@fourway.net> > wrote:

We have a tower where we need to do some upgrades etc.

Ospreys have returned a few days ago.

Does anyone know who to contact (Indiana) to make sure we don’t get in trouble..

 

 

No one at the DNR seems to be working…

 

 

Roland Houin

Fourway.Net

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




 

-- 

Lewis Bergman

325-439-0533 Cell

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

[Lewis Bergman]

I'm in Texas and I am having to delay replacing a dead tree because a Robin
built a nest in it and is in the process of sitting on her two little blue
eggs to hatch them. I probably would have decided to delay if I had known
it but evidently the landscaper says it is a law that you can't destrub a
native birds nest that is active. I have no diea if that was a federal or
state law.
I did find the following:
https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/removing-bird-nests/
I also found a pest control persons website that states:
If the bird’s nest on your boat belongs to a sparrow, starling, or pigeon,
you may remove it. If it belongs to any other bird and the nest has been
built and is being tended (eggs or not), you are out of luck.

No idea if any of this applies to you but there it is.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:11 AM Roland Houin  wrote:

> We have a tower where we need to do some upgrades etc.
>
> Ospreys have returned a few days ago.
>
> Does anyone know who to contact (Indiana) to make sure we don’t get in
> trouble..
>
>
>
>
>
> No one at the DNR seems to be working…
>
>
>
>
>
> Roland Houin
>
> Fourway.Net
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

[Ken Hohhof]

I thought the universal platform among truckers was CB Radio.

 

Maybe I need to update my info.  Looks like they have evolved to smartphones 
and apps like https://www.nexttrucking.com/

Still, you’re talking about truckers who are literally hauling rocks.  Didn’t 
Fred Flintstone work at the gravel pit?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 8:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

 

Generally the more universal the framework, the worse it is.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "can...@believewireless.net  " 
mailto:p...@believewireless.net> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:43:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

There are several frameworks where you can create an iOS, Android and Windows 
app with one code base.

 

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 11:32 AM Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote:

You'd need to build an Android app and iPhone app.  And all the other problems 
that come with it (installing it, versions, maintaining it, updating it through 
major OS).  Something universal for such a basic need is far superior for your 
use case.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 11:11 AM Brian Webster mailto:i...@wirelessmapping.com> > wrote:

Problem with an app is that you have to get everyone with scales to connect 
etc. I can imagine a lot of places with scales don’t have an internet 
connection.

 

Wondering if something like an RFID system couldn’t be set up. Data written to 
the tag, law enforcement needs to know the info they can just scan it. What do 
those in cab systems do that you see in the DOT checkpoints? Can you just use 
that system?

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com  

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  ] On 
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

 

Great ideas from everyone.  I am leaning more towards an app.  Like self 
checkout.  Hit the button, select the type of material and it registers the 
load with the office.

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Mar 26, 2020, at 8:13 AM, Brian Webster mailto:i...@wirelessmapping.com> > wrote:



Google Voice lets you text from your account using the web browser. Scale house 
can set up a free Google Voice account. You can text with pictures or other mms 
content. Could the scale operator just ask for the phone number using the 
intercom, type it in and hit send? Bluetooth is going to be a problem. Drivers 
won’t have it turned on, crappy phones won’t connect to it etc. I like the 
taking the picture of the monitor especially if the monitor is displaying a QR 
code. Weight would be there, truck number and a QR code link to the official 
ticket record if they really need it. Put up a big enough monitor so the driver 
can take the picture right from the cab. Wondering if the electronic log 
systems could not have a camera installed to take the picture or scan the QR 
code and have it automatically entered in to their logs. The same camera could 
be used and left running as a dash cam as well in case there are ever any 
accidents.

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com  

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  ] On 
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 9:30 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

 

I like Carls idea the best - any modern phone will read the QR code.  Have it 
translate to a URL with the PDF?


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 8:44 AM Carl Peterson mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com> > wrote:

Have them scan a QR code that brings up their ticket 

 

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 5:28 AM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Getting out of the truck to go into the scale shack is a big part of the 
problem.  And having a bunch of sheets of paper in the cab is a problem too.

Sent from my iPhone





On Mar 

[AFMUG] Ospreys on Tower

[Roland Houin]

We have a tower where we need to do some upgrades etc.Ospreys have returned a few days ago.Does anyone know who to contact (Indiana) to make sure we don’t get in trouble..  No one at the DNR seems to be working…  Roland HouinFourway.Net -- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone

[Mike Hammett]

Generally the more universal the framework, the worse it is. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "can...@believewireless.net"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:43:50 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone 



There are several frameworks where you can create an iOS, Android and Windows 
app with one code base. 


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 11:32 AM Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 



You'd need to build an Android app and iPhone app. And all the other problems 
that come with it (installing it, versions, maintaining it, updating it through 
major OS). Something universal for such a basic need is far superior for your 
use case. 





Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 



On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 11:11 AM Brian Webster < i...@wirelessmapping.com > 
wrote: 





Problem with an app is that you have to get everyone with scales to connect 
etc. I can imagine a lot of places with scales don’t have an internet 
connection. 

Wondering if something like an RFID system couldn’t be set up. Data written to 
the tag, law enforcement needs to know the info they can just scan it. What do 
those in cab systems do that you see in the DOT checkpoints? Can you just use 
that system? 


Thank you, 
Brian Webster 
www.wirelessmapping.com 



From: AF [mailto: af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:56 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone 

Great ideas from everyone. I am leaning more towards an app. Like self 
checkout. Hit the button, select the type of material and it registers the load 
with the office. 

Sent from my iPhone 




On Mar 26, 2020, at 8:13 AM, Brian Webster < i...@wirelessmapping.com > wrote: 




Google Voice lets you text from your account using the web browser. Scale house 
can set up a free Google Voice account. You can text with pictures or other mms 
content. Could the scale operator just ask for the phone number using the 
intercom, type it in and hit send? Bluetooth is going to be a problem. Drivers 
won’t have it turned on, crappy phones won’t connect to it etc. I like the 
taking the picture of the monitor especially if the monitor is displaying a QR 
code. Weight would be there, truck number and a QR code link to the official 
ticket record if they really need it. Put up a big enough monitor so the driver 
can take the picture right from the cab. Wondering if the electronic log 
systems could not have a camera installed to take the picture or scan the QR 
code and have it automatically entered in to their logs. The same camera could 
be used and left running as a dash cam as well in case there are ever any 
accidents. 

Thank you, 
Brian Webster 
www.wirelessmapping.com 

From: AF [mailto: af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 9:30 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone 


I like Carls idea the best - any modern phone will read the QR code. Have it 
translate to a URL with the PDF? 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 8:44 AM Carl Peterson < cpeter...@portnetworks.com > 
wrote: 



Have them scan a QR code that brings up their ticket 



On Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 5:28 AM Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 



Getting out of the truck to go into the scale shack is a big part of the 
problem. And having a bunch of sheets of paper in the cab is a problem too. 

Sent from my iPhone 





On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:09 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





Seems like we’re overthinking it. What exactly is the problem with the current 
system? 

Is it the wasted paper? I think someone suggested recycling the old slips. 
Maybe they just need a bin for the drivers to throw the old slips in. 

Look how hard it is to get doctors and lawyers to stop using FAX. And if you 
suggest eFAX, it’s like you farted in church. 




From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:33 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT print to a phone 

They think that is too much effort 

Sent from my iPhone 




On Mar 25, 2020, at 5:06 PM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 






If they could print a PDF, they could text it to you. bp 
 

On 3/25/2020 3:25 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 





I am trying to get a local rock quarry to go paperless. I suggested they email 
the scale ticket to the driver. They don’t want to attempt to load in all the 
different drivers’ cell phone numbers. If there is a way using bluetooth or 
something to just display the scale info without too much setup it could work. 
If a 

Re: [AFMUG] OT - will spare laptop battery go bad in storage?

[Mike Hammett]

I think we plateaued a few years ago. I'm still running a desktop from 10 years 
ago and the only time it struggles is when my 32 GB of RAM fills up with 
everything I've got going on (mostly Chrome) or when processing videos for TBW. 
Having a faster CPU would be nice for single-threaded applications like ArcMap. 
I need to build a new one, but that's mostly because I can't afford the 
downtime of formatting my 10 year old Windows 10 install and then reinstalling 
everything. 


I don't even buy new laptops anymore. Pay half as much for a laptop that's a 
couple years old, but still does everything great. Better off doing that and 
then buying a great SSD to stuff in it. You get a blazing fast machine that 
still costs less. 


Then again, I've only had to buy a new laptop battery once, ever. *shrugs* 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 9:20:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - will spare laptop battery go bad in storage? 



Maybe I’ve got an old lap. 

Actually since it was top of the line everything at the time, it’s still not 
that different from the latest version. And it looks and works like new. Only 
6th gen i7, but CPU performance is only increasing incrementally between 
generations these days. I think the biggest improvement in the current version 
is they moved the camera to the top of the bezel. 




From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke 
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 6:34 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - will spare laptop battery go bad in storage? 

But it's still an old laptop... 

On 3/26/2020 6:06 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 


Hey, the battery was only $70. 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke 
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 5:55 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - will spare laptop battery go bad in storage? 

Are you married to that laptop? Just get a whole new machine. 

https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Display-Graphics-Keyboard-A515-43-R19L/dp/B07RF1XD36
 I only look for things with a wired Ethernet port. Dongles drive me crazy. 




On 3/26/2020 5:50 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 


I’m just afraid that by 2022 they won’t be available anymore. Or I guess if 
they are, maybe they will have been sitting in an Amazon warehouse for 2 years? 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones 
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 5:44 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - will spare laptop battery go bad in storage? 


Hit or miss on these. They're so cheap anymore on old laptops, if it's bad I 
just get another, I don't know how they store them but its 50 50 on good or 
dead 



On Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 5:40 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




I have a 4 year old Dell XPS 15 and I just replaced the Li-ion battery for the 
second time. I guess that’s not shocking. 

But Dell wasn’t even selling replacement batteries the first time. I did get a 
free one from them because they had a problem with the original batteries 
swelling. That replacement didn’t swell, but the runtime had decreased 
dramatically. 

The no-name replacement (bought from Amazon) fit perfectly, and looked just 
like the Dell battery except for a sticker that I’m pretty sure covers the Dell 
name. It’s a pretty nice laptop and I can’t guarantee I’ll be ready to retire 
it 2 years from now when this battery will probably need replacing. Amazon 
still has them in stock, should I order another one? 

Or is putting a spare battery on the shelf stupid, will it just gradually 
discharge and go bad? It’s not very difficult to change the battery, would it 
help to swap batteries every 6 months or something? I actually saw something on 
the Internet that Li-ion batteries should be stored partially not fully 
charged. And of course they can’t put anything on the Internet unless it’s 
true. 
-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 















-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com