Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Adam Moffett]

A lot of doom and gloom in this thread.

I'll say that we have some customers on a 900mhz 450i getting 6mbps or 
so at -80 something on a 5mhz channel.  I think the weakest is -86dbm.  
The ones on 900mhz did not work with LTE, even with 1W tx and an 18dbi 
sector antenna.  There is literally zero signal on LTE, but 900mhz 
works.  My point being there are sometimes places where you have no 
other option but 900.


Maybe have a frank talk with that handful of customers.  Say you can 
keep what you've got, or you can contribute $x towards an infrastructure 
upgrade that will give you more speed.  Replace X with whatever value 
makes the situation viable.




-- Original Message --
From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/30/2017 5:29:20 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

Really hard to say depending where you are with current 900 noise 
floors what they are.
In my area its not too bad as smart meters dont exist here. The other 
issue I have ran into is RFID entry points and

Gated communities using automated gates.
 It works for us in some area but not others and it can be a real bear 
to coordinate channels and framing to get it all
to work right especially with the higher demand in capacity needs of 
the end user. We have 30 Access points in a single county wide 
deployment and all of them are on 10Mhz wide channels which only allows 
for 2 channels so we
had to work issues at each site with proper antenna positions and 
locations on the tower to overcome self interference. The biggest 
gotcha is not adding the correct gain for both AP antennas and 
Subscriber antennas.
The 450i radio really uses the ATPC to control power levels at the AP 
and Subscriber to help overcome saturation and

OOBEs.

Its definately given us some breathing room to help move to better 
service for those who were only getting 1Mb on the FSK.
 We able to effectively provide 12Mb basic plans on any of our 900 
sectors and have 30 subs on several APs without much issue.
I still watch the frame utilization graphs vs throughput to be sure we 
are not overloaded.




On 11/30/2017 11:17 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 
11 different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is 
feasible to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's 
with the PMP100 so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I 
currently have because they won't all be on the same side of the 
towers. So looking at costs I see the following:


PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
SM antenna x 20 = $1,424

equipment cost total = $58,528
plus my time of putting it all up

I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running 
on the PMP100-900mhz now.


At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the 
450i-900mhz and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than 
what I was able to offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.


Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?


--

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Dave]

Really hard to say depending where you are with current 900 noise floors 
what they are.
In my area its not too bad as smart meters dont exist here. The other 
issue I have ran into is RFID entry points and

Gated communities using automated gates.
 It works for us in some area but not others and it can be a real bear 
to coordinate channels and framing to get it all
to work right especially with the higher demand in capacity needs of the 
end user. We have 30 Access points in a single county wide deployment 
and all of them are on 10Mhz wide channels which only allows for 2 
channels so we
had to work issues at each site with proper antenna positions and 
locations on the tower to overcome self interference. The biggest gotcha 
is not adding the correct gain for both AP antennas and Subscriber antennas.
The 450i radio really uses the ATPC to control power levels at the AP 
and Subscriber to help overcome saturation and

OOBEs.

Its definately given us some breathing room to help move to better 
service for those who were only getting 1Mb on the FSK.
 We able to effectively provide 12Mb basic plans on any of our 900 
sectors and have 30 subs on several APs without much issue.
I still watch the frame utilization graphs vs throughput to be sure we 
are not overloaded.




On 11/30/2017 11:17 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 
11 different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is 
feasible to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's 
with the PMP100 so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I 
currently have because they won't all be on the same side of the 
towers. So looking at costs I see the following:


PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
SM antenna x 20 = $1,424

equipment cost total = $58,528
plus my time of putting it all up

I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running 
on the PMP100-900mhz now.


At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the 
450i-900mhz and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than 
what I was able to offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.


Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?


--

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[George Skorup]

Highly dependent on the noise floor at a particular site. All I can say 
is try it and see if it'll work out for you.


On 11/30/2017 1:51 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

George,

How much worse is the Omni setup? I have a couple sites that I could 
put an inverted Verticle under the H-pol already in place.


On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Mathew Howard > wrote:


In my opinion, it's not going to be worth it to do a complete
upgrade from what you currently have on PMP100 to 450i. Are the
customer's pretty evenly spread across all those APs? If there are
a few APs that are a lot denser, it may make sense to upgrade
those APs, but to me it's just not worth putting that kind of
money into 900mhz at this point.

When PMP450i 900mhz first came out, we it was working great for
us... but now half our APs are nearly worthless because the noise
floor has gone up so much in certain areas (I'm assuming smart
grid, but I haven't actually verified that).

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:34 PM, George Skorup
> wrote:

We've got about 10 450i 900 APs up now. We tried Baicells at
most of those sites. I'm talking stupid dense trees. Made it
two blocks in a small town and RSRP dropped off to -120. Plus
that was back when you couldn't turn down the Tx power on the
eNB. It was the full 1W per port, so we were still 4-5dB over
the EIRP limit with a KP 14dBi sector and cable loss.

We do have Baicells at other sites and we've seen roughly 85%
success rate getting customers off of 900. So it does work,
just not everywhere.

Anyway.. a couple of those 900 450i sites have a dual H & V
omni setup. It mostly works, but I do not recommend it. The
typical omni problem, interference from everywhere.

But like Steve said, once our power co turns up their grid, I
fully expect 900 to be worthless. I guess we'll see.

On 11/30/2017 11:27 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

My worry is if I deploy it that 5-6 years down the road we
will be in the same boat now of trying to find another
solution to get the bandwidth to the customers because by
then they will be all wanting faster than what the 900mhz can
do just like the same problem we have now.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Steve Jones
> wrote:

if you are in the US, the "smart grid" is coming to help
you by answering your questions for you



On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
> wrote:

So I have 2% of my customer base that is running
900mhz PMP100 using 11 different access points. I am
trying to cost justify weather it is feasible to
upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of
Omni's with the PMP100 so most likely I will need
twice as many AP's as I currently have because they
won't all be on the same side of the towers. So
looking at costs I see the following:

PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
SM antenna x 20 = $1,424

equipment cost total = $58,528
plus my time of putting it all up

I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of
customers running on the PMP100-900mhz now.

At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on
deploying the 450i-900mhz and I really can't offer
any better speeds with it than what I was able to
offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.

Is it just me or does this not make sense worth
deploying?

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Kurt Fankhauser]

George,

How much worse is the Omni setup? I have a couple sites that I could put an
inverted Verticle under the H-pol already in place.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> In my opinion, it's not going to be worth it to do a complete upgrade from
> what you currently have on PMP100 to 450i. Are the customer's pretty evenly
> spread across all those APs? If there are a few APs that are a lot denser,
> it may make sense to upgrade those APs, but to me it's just not worth
> putting that kind of money into 900mhz at this point.
>
> When PMP450i 900mhz first came out, we it was working great for us... but
> now half our APs are nearly worthless because the noise floor has gone up
> so much in certain areas (I'm assuming smart grid, but I haven't actually
> verified that).
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:34 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> We've got about 10 450i 900 APs up now. We tried Baicells at most of
>> those sites. I'm talking stupid dense trees. Made it two blocks in a small
>> town and RSRP dropped off to -120. Plus that was back when you couldn't
>> turn down the Tx power on the eNB. It was the full 1W per port, so we were
>> still 4-5dB over the EIRP limit with a KP 14dBi sector and cable loss.
>>
>> We do have Baicells at other sites and we've seen roughly 85% success
>> rate getting customers off of 900. So it does work, just not everywhere.
>>
>> Anyway.. a couple of those 900 450i sites have a dual H & V omni setup.
>> It mostly works, but I do not recommend it. The typical omni problem,
>> interference from everywhere.
>>
>> But like Steve said, once our power co turns up their grid, I fully
>> expect 900 to be worthless. I guess we'll see.
>>
>> On 11/30/2017 11:27 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>>
>> My worry is if I deploy it that 5-6 years down the road we will be in the
>> same boat now of trying to find another solution to get the bandwidth to
>> the customers because by then they will be all wanting faster than what the
>> 900mhz can do just like the same problem we have now.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> if you are in the US, the "smart grid" is coming to help you by
>>> answering your questions for you
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Kurt Fankhauser <
>>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 11
 different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is feasible
 to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's with the
 PMP100 so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I currently have
 because they won't all be on the same side of the towers. So looking at
 costs I see the following:

 PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
 900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
 PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
 SM antenna x 20 = $1,424

 equipment cost total = $58,528
 plus my time of putting it all up

 I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running
 on the PMP100-900mhz now.

 At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the
 450i-900mhz and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than what I
 was able to offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.

 Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Mathew Howard]

In my opinion, it's not going to be worth it to do a complete upgrade from
what you currently have on PMP100 to 450i. Are the customer's pretty evenly
spread across all those APs? If there are a few APs that are a lot denser,
it may make sense to upgrade those APs, but to me it's just not worth
putting that kind of money into 900mhz at this point.

When PMP450i 900mhz first came out, we it was working great for us... but
now half our APs are nearly worthless because the noise floor has gone up
so much in certain areas (I'm assuming smart grid, but I haven't actually
verified that).

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:34 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> We've got about 10 450i 900 APs up now. We tried Baicells at most of those
> sites. I'm talking stupid dense trees. Made it two blocks in a small town
> and RSRP dropped off to -120. Plus that was back when you couldn't turn
> down the Tx power on the eNB. It was the full 1W per port, so we were still
> 4-5dB over the EIRP limit with a KP 14dBi sector and cable loss.
>
> We do have Baicells at other sites and we've seen roughly 85% success rate
> getting customers off of 900. So it does work, just not everywhere.
>
> Anyway.. a couple of those 900 450i sites have a dual H & V omni setup. It
> mostly works, but I do not recommend it. The typical omni problem,
> interference from everywhere.
>
> But like Steve said, once our power co turns up their grid, I fully expect
> 900 to be worthless. I guess we'll see.
>
> On 11/30/2017 11:27 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>
> My worry is if I deploy it that 5-6 years down the road we will be in the
> same boat now of trying to find another solution to get the bandwidth to
> the customers because by then they will be all wanting faster than what the
> 900mhz can do just like the same problem we have now.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> if you are in the US, the "smart grid" is coming to help you by answering
>> your questions for you
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Kurt Fankhauser <
>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 11
>>> different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is feasible
>>> to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's with the
>>> PMP100 so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I currently have
>>> because they won't all be on the same side of the towers. So looking at
>>> costs I see the following:
>>>
>>> PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
>>> 900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
>>> PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
>>> SM antenna x 20 = $1,424
>>>
>>> equipment cost total = $58,528
>>> plus my time of putting it all up
>>>
>>> I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running
>>> on the PMP100-900mhz now.
>>>
>>> At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the
>>> 450i-900mhz and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than what I
>>> was able to offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.
>>>
>>> Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[George Skorup]

We've got about 10 450i 900 APs up now. We tried Baicells at most of 
those sites. I'm talking stupid dense trees. Made it two blocks in a 
small town and RSRP dropped off to -120. Plus that was back when you 
couldn't turn down the Tx power on the eNB. It was the full 1W per port, 
so we were still 4-5dB over the EIRP limit with a KP 14dBi sector and 
cable loss.


We do have Baicells at other sites and we've seen roughly 85% success 
rate getting customers off of 900. So it does work, just not everywhere.


Anyway.. a couple of those 900 450i sites have a dual H & V omni setup. 
It mostly works, but I do not recommend it. The typical omni problem, 
interference from everywhere.


But like Steve said, once our power co turns up their grid, I fully 
expect 900 to be worthless. I guess we'll see.


On 11/30/2017 11:27 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
My worry is if I deploy it that 5-6 years down the road we will be in 
the same boat now of trying to find another solution to get the 
bandwidth to the customers because by then they will be all wanting 
faster than what the 900mhz can do just like the same problem we have now.


On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:


if you are in the US, the "smart grid" is coming to help you by
answering your questions for you



On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
> wrote:

So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100
using 11 different access points. I am trying to cost justify
weather it is feasible to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am
using a lot of Omni's with the PMP100 so most likely I will
need twice as many AP's as I currently have because they won't
all be on the same side of the towers. So looking at costs I
see the following:

PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
SM antenna x 20 = $1,424

equipment cost total = $58,528
plus my time of putting it all up

I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers
running on the PMP100-900mhz now.

At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying
the 450i-900mhz and I really can't offer any better speeds
with it than what I was able to offer with the old FSK
2.4/5ghz stuff.

Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Adam Moffett]

The numbers seem to add up to 1 customer per AP.  If that's really the 
case, then I don't think you're going to be able to justify any kind of 
product.




-- Original Message --
From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/30/2017 12:17:52 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 11 
different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is 
feasible to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's 
with the PMP100 so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I 
currently have because they won't all be on the same side of the 
towers. So looking at costs I see the following:


PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
SM antenna x 20 = $1,424

equipment cost total = $58,528
plus my time of putting it all up

I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running 
on the PMP100-900mhz now.


At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the 
450i-900mhz and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than 
what I was able to offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.


Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Jon Langeler]

We charge $1500 for 900 installs but I’m debating if that’s even worth it as 
the speeds can vary (sporadic interference). I almost favor offering just the 
‘tower build’ option and getting more line of site customers off it.

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Nov 30, 2017, at 12:17 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  
> wrote:
> 
> So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 11 
> different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is feasible 
> to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's with the PMP100 
> so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I currently have because 
> they won't all be on the same side of the towers. So looking at costs I see 
> the following:
> 
> PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
> 900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
> PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
> SM antenna x 20 = $1,424
> 
> equipment cost total = $58,528
> plus my time of putting it all up
> 
> I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running on the 
> PMP100-900mhz now.
> 
> At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the 450i-900mhz 
> and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than what I was able to 
> offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.
> 
> Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Steve Jones]

Depending on distance and terrain. Could you get by with midpoint cheap
links to the existing customers and use the midpoints to pick up some other
unserved along the way? Youre already looking at alot of money to ensure
future obsolescence, so whats a little more money to potentially be
competitive?
There are fiber magicians lurking the list who could maybe even help you
justify some duct in the earth in some places, fiber never has line of site
problems and duct is never not valuable to someone

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> If I tried to tell my partner that we needed to drop 60K on equipment for
> 1K per month in revenue I would get laughed out of the room.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> if you are in the US, the "smart grid" is coming to help you by answering
>> your questions for you
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Kurt Fankhauser <
>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 11
>>> different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is feasible
>>> to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's with the
>>> PMP100 so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I currently have
>>> because they won't all be on the same side of the towers. So looking at
>>> costs I see the following:
>>>
>>> PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
>>> 900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
>>> PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
>>> SM antenna x 20 = $1,424
>>>
>>> equipment cost total = $58,528
>>> plus my time of putting it all up
>>>
>>> I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running
>>> on the PMP100-900mhz now.
>>>
>>> At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the
>>> 450i-900mhz and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than what I
>>> was able to offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.
>>>
>>> Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> 
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
> 
>
> (410) 637-3707
>

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Carl Peterson]

If I tried to tell my partner that we needed to drop 60K on equipment for
1K per month in revenue I would get laughed out of the room.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> if you are in the US, the "smart grid" is coming to help you by answering
> your questions for you
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Kurt Fankhauser <
> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 11
>> different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is feasible
>> to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's with the
>> PMP100 so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I currently have
>> because they won't all be on the same side of the towers. So looking at
>> costs I see the following:
>>
>> PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
>> 900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
>> PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
>> SM antenna x 20 = $1,424
>>
>> equipment cost total = $58,528
>> plus my time of putting it all up
>>
>> I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running on
>> the PMP100-900mhz now.
>>
>> At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the
>> 450i-900mhz and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than what I
>> was able to offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.
>>
>> Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?
>>
>
>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Kurt Fankhauser]

My worry is if I deploy it that 5-6 years down the road we will be in the
same boat now of trying to find another solution to get the bandwidth to
the customers because by then they will be all wanting faster than what the
900mhz can do just like the same problem we have now.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> if you are in the US, the "smart grid" is coming to help you by answering
> your questions for you
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Kurt Fankhauser <
> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 11
>> different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is feasible
>> to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's with the
>> PMP100 so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I currently have
>> because they won't all be on the same side of the towers. So looking at
>> costs I see the following:
>>
>> PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
>> 900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
>> PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
>> SM antenna x 20 = $1,424
>>
>> equipment cost total = $58,528
>> plus my time of putting it all up
>>
>> I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running on
>> the PMP100-900mhz now.
>>
>> At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the
>> 450i-900mhz and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than what I
>> was able to offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.
>>
>> Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Steve Jones]

if you are in the US, the "smart grid" is coming to help you by answering
your questions for you



On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 11
> different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is feasible
> to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's with the
> PMP100 so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I currently have
> because they won't all be on the same side of the towers. So looking at
> costs I see the following:
>
> PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
> 900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
> PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
> SM antenna x 20 = $1,424
>
> equipment cost total = $58,528
> plus my time of putting it all up
>
> I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running on
> the PMP100-900mhz now.
>
> At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the
> 450i-900mhz and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than what I
> was able to offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.
>
> Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?
>

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Josh Baird]

Personally, I wouldn’t even consider investing this amount of money in 900mhz 
any longer. 

Perhaps you should take a look at LTE?

> On Nov 30, 2017, at 9:17 AM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
> 
> So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 11 
> different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is feasible 
> to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's with the PMP100 
> so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I currently have because 
> they won't all be on the same side of the towers. So looking at costs I see 
> the following:
> 
> PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
> 900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
> PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
> SM antenna x 20 = $1,424
> 
> equipment cost total = $58,528
> plus my time of putting it all up
> 
> I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running on the 
> PMP100-900mhz now.
> 
> At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the 450i-900mhz 
> and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than what I was able to 
> offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.
> 
> Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?

Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Darin Steffl]

You'd want closer to 15-30 subs per AP on 900mhz to deploy or a high
install cost to make it worthwhile. We're always at 1-year ROI on tower and
CPE gear and any longer than that, we move on to more profitable projects.

If you can't make ROI work, leave the PMP100 up and tell customers you
can't justify to upgrade to higher speeds unless they pay more upfront or
monthly.

You don't owe these subs anything in terms of tying up your cash for that
long.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 11
> different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is feasible
> to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's with the
> PMP100 so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I currently have
> because they won't all be on the same side of the towers. So looking at
> costs I see the following:
>
> PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
> 900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
> PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
> SM antenna x 20 = $1,424
>
> equipment cost total = $58,528
> plus my time of putting it all up
>
> I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running on
> the PMP100-900mhz now.
>
> At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the
> 450i-900mhz and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than what I
> was able to offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.
>
> Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?
>



-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
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[AFMUG] 900mhz 450i make sense to deploy?

[Kurt Fankhauser]

So I have 2% of my customer base that is running 900mhz PMP100 using 11
different access points. I am trying to cost justify weather it is feasible
to upgrade them to PMP450i-900mhz. I am using a lot of Omni's with the
PMP100 so most likely I will need twice as many AP's as I currently have
because they won't all be on the same side of the towers. So looking at
costs I see the following:

PMP450i AP's x 20 = $46,000
900mhz sectors x 20 = $6,320
PMP450 SM x 20 = $4,784
SM antenna x 20 = $1,424

equipment cost total = $58,528
plus my time of putting it all up

I am currently grossing $934.00/month from the 2% of customers running on
the PMP100-900mhz now.

At this rate it would take 5 years to break even on deploying the
450i-900mhz and I really can't offer any better speeds with it than what I
was able to offer with the old FSK 2.4/5ghz stuff.

Is it just me or does this not make sense worth deploying?