Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[immortal . discoveries]

Looking back at the link below, it makes you feel like we are witnessing a 
similar size race, they go from 15,000 15(KW) in China in 1888 to 
100,000,000,000 (100GW) in China in 1987.

https://www.ieee-pes.org/images/files/pdf/Chinas_Power_Industry_Milestones_IEEE_PES-20081010.pdf

"China generates 5,882,943,540,000,000 W of electricity as of 2016"

I find it interesting always, how we got electricity, then computers, then AI, 
maturing, we have come a long way and things are getting speedy now.

Because I know 100% confidently how to make DALL-E very much like an AGI using 
a simple hack, I can agree Ray's prediction for 2029 isn't a bad date for AGI 
arrival. This isn't another 140 year process of electricity generation.

Ray's predictions at bottom:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Ray_Kurzweil
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[John Rose]

On Saturday, September 11, 2021, at 2:00 AM, John Rose wrote:
> I think the key is in the delegate handling with the object property 
> processing and network structure created off of that. For example, increasing 
> distance pressure between two dynamic objects but keeping them linked by 
> creating a growing graph of objects connected by dynamic member creation. A 
> multigraph node is a C# object with connectors as member object references. 
> Hypergraphs then are inherited objects. Node detection is reflection and 
> subgraph isomorphism mining uses reflective processes.

So looking at this component of the self-writing, self-improving proto-AGI 
system, you have this graph of C# objects with context threads executing across 
it, growing and expanding. App context threads, conscious threads, bud 
delegates (stub methods) and hydrate them, then threads reflect and invoke the 
budding delegates. A question is what code gets hydrated into the stubs, what 
source code populates the new members? Basically, code fills memory pressure 
according to syntax rules on self-organizing environmentally reflected sets of 
generated objects. The modelled dynamical systems fill memory pressure. C# code 
forms within the regions and the models expand into allocated memory. Another 
question is what hydrates the hydrators? Intelligence pressure. AI's and AGI's 
generally form within intelligence pressure topology. In the budding member 
code hydration hydrators, intelligence pressure is used to expand the dynamical 
systems models into allocated subgraphs. Intelligence pressure contains memory 
pressure and the sets of dynamical systems agglomerate and subsume into 
subgraph trees of modelled systems. And the same things go on there, hydrated, 
reflected and executed code by sets of conscious threads across the subsumed 
modelled systems budding object members. So, this hypergraphic piece of the 
system writes itself and executes itself all in real-time C# code.

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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[John Rose]

On Sunday, September 05, 2021, at 5:11 AM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies 
wrote:
> For historical references, Common Lisp and even Lisp 1.5 had reflection too. 
> Around 1980.


> (On my spare time, with others, I am slowly developing  http://refpersys.org/ 
> - an open source GPLv3+ licensed *ref*lexive *per*sistent *sys*tem for Linux 
> - which could interest some people on this list)



On my path in computer programming I haven't done Lisp but plan on looking at 
Clojure… C# has the following features as do other languages:

reflection, anonymous types/dynamic types, delegates (function pointers), 
serialization,

and with these many things can be done. Though the syntactic expressivity of 
reflective semantics in C# leaves much to be desired. That’s probably why its 
reflection hasn’t been fully taken advantage of. But it works…

I’ve thought about how to have proto-AGI code write itself in C#. What I’m 
thinking is something like:

Reflecting reality by environmental dynamical systems modelling, continuous 
model checking contributing to self-improvement, learned systems absorption 
into mathematical structure, reflecting the application itself with 
consciousness centered on app execution context, a dynamical, self-adapting, 
self-writing test system, then app self-organizingly forms and unfolds into its 
existing precepted reality reflecting itself into its own environmental systems 
modelling.

A question is should a layer above C# reflection be added, a structure that is 
more syntactically aligned with reflective conceptual constructs, including the 
other language features mentioned above. Basically new object structure where 
object members have more syntactic expressiveness. OOP has its limitations…

I think the key is in the delegate handling with the object property processing 
and network structure created off of that. For example, increasing distance 
pressure between two dynamic objects but keeping them linked by creating a 
growing graph of objects connected by dynamic member creation. A multigraph 
node is a C# object with connectors as member object references. Hypergraphs 
then are inherited objects. Node detection is reflection and subgraph 
isomorphism mining uses reflective processes.
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[doddy]

are you going to develop this open source GPLv3+ licensed *ref*lexive *per*
sistent *sys*tem for windows?

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 4:12 AM Nanograte Knowledge Technologies <
nano...@live.com> wrote:

> Great share! Thanks
>
> --
> *From:* Basile Starynkevitch 
> *Sent:* Saturday, 04 September 2021 18:42
> *To:* agi@agi.topicbox.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter
>
>
>
> On 8/19/21 2:47 PM, John Rose wrote:
>
> For example, dot net has a feature called reflection, as does Java, that
> enables code to look at itself. Using this all sorts of chores are
> typically done in everyday development. Yet reflection has not been
> utilized to its full capability IMO. In some ways yes, for example look at
> NSwag API wrapper generator... but with knowledge and mathematical
> structure in relation to AGI more coding work can be automated realtime
> using reflection. I’m sure though many AGI devs have been using the
> capability to some extent.
>
>
>
> For historical references, Common Lisp and even Lisp 1.5 had reflection
> too. Around 1980.
>
>
> (On my spare time, with others, I am slowly developing
> http://refpersys.org/ - an open source GPLv3+ licensed *ref*lexive 
> *per*sistent
> *sys*tem for Linux - which could interest some people on this list)
>
>
> The last book of Jacques Pitrat -
> Artificial Beings: the Conscience of a Conscious Machine
>
> ISBN-13: 978-1848211018
>
>
> should also interest some people from this list.
>
>
>
> --
> Basile Starynkevitch   
> 
> (only mine opinions / les opinions sont miennes uniquement)
> 92340 Bourg-la-Reine, France
> web page: starynkevitch.net/Basile/
>
> *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>*
> / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> +
> participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> +
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> Permalink
> <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/Tace3f9aea35af378-M3321e2018404fc63998375dc>
>

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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Nanograte Knowledge Technologies]

Great share! Thanks


From: Basile Starynkevitch 
Sent: Saturday, 04 September 2021 18:42
To: agi@agi.topicbox.com 
Subject: Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter



On 8/19/21 2:47 PM, John Rose wrote:
For example, dot net has a feature called reflection, as does Java, that 
enables code to look at itself. Using this all sorts of chores are typically 
done in everyday development. Yet reflection has not been utilized to its full 
capability IMO. In some ways yes, for example look at NSwag API wrapper 
generator... but with knowledge and mathematical structure in relation to AGI 
more coding work can be automated realtime using reflection. I’m sure though 
many AGI devs have been using the capability to some extent.



For historical references, Common Lisp and even Lisp 1.5 had reflection too. 
Around 1980.


(On my spare time, with others, I am slowly developing http://refpersys.org/ - 
an open source GPLv3+ licensed reflexive persistent system for Linux - which 
could interest some people on this list)


The last book of Jacques Pitrat -

Artificial Beings: the Conscience of a Conscious Machine

ISBN-13: 978-1848211018


should also interest some people from this list.



--
Basile Starynkevitch  
<mailto:bas...@starynkevitch.net>
(only mine opinions / les opinions sont miennes uniquement)
92340 Bourg-la-Reine, France
web page: starynkevitch.net/Basile/



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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Basile Starynkevitch]

On 8/19/21 2:47 PM, John Rose wrote:
For example, dot net has a feature called reflection, as does Java, 
that enables code to look at itself. Using this all sorts of chores 
are typically done in everyday development. Yet reflection has not 
been utilized to its full capability IMO. In some ways yes, for 
example look at NSwag API wrapper generator... but with knowledge and 
mathematical structure in relation to AGI more coding work can be 
automated realtime using reflection. I’m sure though many AGI devs 
have been using the capability to some extent.




For historical references, Common Lisp and even Lisp 1.5 had reflection 
too. Around 1980.



(On my spare time, with others, I am slowly developing 
http://refpersys.org/  - an open source GPLv3+ 
licensed *ref*lexive *per*sistent *sys*tem for Linux - which could 
interest some people on this list)



The last book of Jacques Pitrat -


 Artificial Beings: the Conscience of a Conscious Machine

ISBN-13: 978-1848211018


should also interest some people from this list.



--
Basile Starynkevitch  
(only mine opinions / les opinions sont miennes uniquement)
92340 Bourg-la-Reine, France
web page: starynkevitch.net/Basile/


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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[James Bowery]

By the way, a brief examination of the formulas and sensitivities should
immediately point to Ashkenazi Jews as a strategic target of attack by the
Chinese but there is a more subtle and profound reason to suspect this than
the mere IQ advantage:

Ashkenazi Jews are a market dominant minority without essential dependence
on any given nation state.  See, for example, this article titled "Questions
of Survival
"
and this quote:

*The fear expressed that "a real decline of the West, particularly the
United States, would have dramatic consequences for the Jewish people,"
also led to controversy. Brandeis University president Jehuda Reinharz
agreed that this type of decline can be expected "in the coming two
decades" - but Stuart Eisenstadt was less emphatic about it. He believes
the United States will remain the leading power. In all events, it was
agreed the Jews "should strengthen cultural links with non-Western
civilizations, particularly China and also India," powers that are on the
ascent. This is not a question of preference or closeness; it is a question
of survival, of readiness for the future. How should this be done? That
will have to be the topic of discussion in the next gatherings already
being planned.*

As a market dominant minority with a history of international migration due
to "questions of survival" Jews in general, but Ashkenazi more so than
others, have developed strong biases toward "open societies" (ala George
Soros) but also toward centralizing power and wealth that is portable "to
escape persecution".  Indeed, JFK's book "A Nation of Immigrants" was ghost
written by the ADL, and The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, with
the following half-century of relentlessly increasing rates of mass
immigration, was supported by every major Jewish organization while the US
population opposed this policy by an overwhelming supermajority over that
time.  At the present this has ripped the social capital of the US to
shreds -- and that's not even talking about the centralization of wealth
and power in the public and private sectors, with the resulting leftist
corporations censoring The Nation of Settlers with the full support of
Conservatism, Inc.

Combine this with Chinese experience with the Disraeli-era opium trade and
it is highly likely the Chinese have a long cultural memory of the
psychology of Jews, their weaknesses and strengths and it's pretty obvious
where to look for the CCP's covert support of addictive political economy
ideas among Jews.

The "Questions of Survival" article, in 2006, likely exposed some attempts
to establish the connections stated.  A decade later, after finding doors
to China not quite as open as they'd hoped, Trump said "Mexican rapists", I
said he was "The Likud Candidate" and he began playing hardball with China.

The US intelligence agencies are like drooling idiots in all this, due to
fear of being called "antisemites".  The Likuds aren't as stupid but they
woke up too late and Trump lost.  Now we have a totally LoboBidenized
government.



On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 12:25 PM James Bowery  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 10:09 AM Matt Mahoney 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 10:25 AM James Bowery  wrote:
>>
>>> Why America Lost The Cold War With The Chinese Communists
>>> 
>>>
>>
>> If I understand your code correctly, you claim that China has access to
>> 32 times as many geniuses (IQ > 140) as the USA,...
>>
>
> Not quite.  The metric isn't just number of individuals above IQ 140.  The
> metric also adds value the higher the IQ above 140 for each such individual
> genius:
>
> * The increasing *value* of increasing IQ beyond the genius threshold
>> (140 IQ in the below model).
>
>
>  This is reflected in the "x*" factor of the definite integral:
>
> genius_continuous:integrate(x*population*gaussian, x, genius_IQ, inf);
>
>
> That's probably an underestimate of the value since we're talking about
> military (unrestricted warfare) dominance:  Their highest IQ vs our highest
> IQ.
>
>
>> and this advantage would drop to 16 without affirmative action. Is this
>> correct?
>>
>
>  Something like that.
>

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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[James Bowery]

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 10:09 AM Matt Mahoney 
wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 10:25 AM James Bowery  wrote:
>
>> Why America Lost The Cold War With The Chinese Communists
>> 
>>
>
> If I understand your code correctly, you claim that China has access to 32
> times as many geniuses (IQ > 140) as the USA,...
>

Not quite.  The metric isn't just number of individuals above IQ 140.  The
metric also adds value the higher the IQ above 140 for each such individual
genius:

* The increasing *value* of increasing IQ beyond the genius threshold (140
> IQ in the below model).


 This is reflected in the "x*" factor of the definite integral:

genius_continuous:integrate(x*population*gaussian, x, genius_IQ, inf);


That's probably an underestimate of the value since we're talking about
military (unrestricted warfare) dominance:  Their highest IQ vs our highest
IQ.


> and this advantage would drop to 16 without affirmative action. Is this
> correct?
>

 Something like that.

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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Matt Mahoney]

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 10:25 AM James Bowery  wrote:

> Why America Lost The Cold War With The Chinese Communists
> 
>

If I understand your code correctly, you claim that China has access to 32
times as many geniuses (IQ > 140) as the USA, and this advantage would drop
to 16 without affirmative action. Is this correct?



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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[James Bowery]

Why America Lost The Cold War With The Chinese Communists


On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 7:08 AM Quan Tesla  wrote:

> Thanks for your response. For a perspective on engineering transhumanism,
> I can only refer you to the Wilson Center's objectives for an Internet of
> Living Things/Bodies/People. There are various reputable sources for
> Humanity 2.0, the Vatican being one of them.
>
> “It is too soon to tell” — the real story China fact of the day
>
> https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/06/it-is-too-soon-to-tell-the-real-story.html
>
> Point being, one person's foolishness is another's wisdom. Only time will
> tell.
>
> Take care
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 8:35 PM WriterOfMinds 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, August 19, 2021, at 10:11 AM, Quan Tesla wrote:
>>
>> ... would you consider your intelligence to be committed to a rapid
>> evolutionary process with purpose to eventually assume network-interactive
>> cyborgian functionality?
>>
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> I might describe myself as transhumanism-curious. I am definitely not
>> transhumanism-committed. Whether I would accept implants, internal
>> nanobots, or genetic modification (which mRNA vaccines are not equipped to
>> perform, by the way) would depend heavily on the circumstances.
>>
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  +
> delivery options 
> Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Quan Tesla]

Thanks for your response. For a perspective on engineering transhumanism, I
can only refer you to the Wilson Center's objectives for an Internet of
Living Things/Bodies/People. There are various reputable sources for
Humanity 2.0, the Vatican being one of them.

“It is too soon to tell” — the real story China fact of the day
https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/06/it-is-too-soon-to-tell-the-real-story.html

Point being, one person's foolishness is another's wisdom. Only time will
tell.

Take care


On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 8:35 PM WriterOfMinds 
wrote:

> On Thursday, August 19, 2021, at 10:11 AM, Quan Tesla wrote:
>
> ... would you consider your intelligence to be committed to a rapid
> evolutionary process with purpose to eventually assume network-interactive
> cyborgian functionality?
>
>
> Nope.
>
> I might describe myself as transhumanism-curious. I am definitely not
> transhumanism-committed. Whether I would accept implants, internal
> nanobots, or genetic modification (which mRNA vaccines are not equipped to
> perform, by the way) would depend heavily on the circumstances.
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  +
> delivery options 
> Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[John Rose]

On Thursday, August 19, 2021, at 1:03 PM, Matt Mahoney wrote:
> Still, DNA based replication is pretty close to the speed and efficiency 
> limits that Freitas calculated for nanotechnology. Moving atoms exactly where 
> you want them takes work on the order of 10 to 100 kilojoules per gram, 
> enough to melt or burn your work if you go too fast. But that's still a 
> billion times less heat per atom than writing bits to RAM.

 I read that a research team recently improved on optical tweezers by 
developing a technique to make them refrigerative such that individual atoms 
can be both cooled and manipulated. Opto-refrigerative… using a light cooling 
substrate and thermophoresis to move them.
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Matt Mahoney]

I wrote it. All animals evolve to fear the things that can kill them, which
you can argue is different than fearing death because most animals have no
concept of death. We can debate whether a fish on a hook or a mosquito
evading a swat or an amoeba swallowing food actually feels anything or is
just behaving as if it does. You could argue this about humans and AI too.

Nanotechnology won't necessarily self replicate like animals. We evolved to
have sex because swapping long segments of code leads to more beneficial
mutations than randomly flipping bits. But human software developers can
already write 160 bits per day, vs less than 1 bit per lifetime for
evolution. Economy of scale also favors specialized factories over self
contained copying, but still favors replacement over repair at some point.

Still, DNA based replication is pretty close to the speed and efficiency
limits that Freitas calculated for nanotechnology. Moving atoms exactly
where you want them takes work on the order of 10 to 100 kilojoules per
gram, enough to melt or burn your work if you go too fast. But that's still
a billion times less heat per atom than writing bits to RAM.

Religion is unique to humans because it evolves memetically, through
language rather than DNA. Religious leaders enforce rules that optimize
tribal growth by promising eternal reward or punishment after death,
enforced by an omnipotent but invisible being. We want to believe it
because of our evolved illusions of consciousness, qualia, and free will
(induced by positive reinforcement of thinking, perception, and action,
respectively) that we don't want to end by dying. Religious rules regarding
reproduction, such as suppression of sex for purposes other than
reproduction in a two parent family, would of course not apply to robots
building specialized manufacturing plants for building more robots.

Moore's law is dead for transistors. But if we extend the doubling every
1.5 years of global computing capacity to nanotechnology, we should surpass
DNA based life in the 2080's. Currently, the biosphere supports 10^31
DNA/RNA/amino acid copy operations per second on 10^37 bits of DNA, powered
by 300 TW of photosynthesis (of which 0.8 TW is food for human
consumption). The earth receives 160,000 TW at the stratosphere and 90,000
TW at the surface, and we already have achieved 20-30% efficiency in solar
panels. Fossil fuels, nuclear, etc. produce only 15 TW, so should have very
little impact on solar powered post DNA life.

On Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 2:32 PM Nanograte Knowledge Technologies <
nano...@live.com> wrote:

> No John, I didn't write this. Correct your source.
>
> John stated: "On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, at 2:59 AM, Nanograte
> Knowledge Technologies wrote:
> That's missing the point. Evolution programmed you to fear death and then
> die. We invented religion to cope.
>
>
> Any self replicating nanotechnology would evolve the same way."
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* John Rose 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 18 August 2021 11:24
> *To:* AGI 
> *Subject:* Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter
>
> On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, at 2:59 AM, Nanograte Knowledge
> Technologies wrote:
> That's missing the point. Evolution programmed you to fear death and then
> die. We invented religion to cope.
>
>
> Any self replicating nanotechnology would evolve the same way.
>
>
> That's an oversimplification. If you study the development of intelligence
> among civilization one might say that religion is about contemporary
> consciousness and communication. But we weren't referring to religion here
> just "God" as an independent conceptual entity. So don't get triggered.
>
> From an AI's perspective "God" would be considered a representation. It
> exists across numerous text corpora. Just ask GPT-3 :)
> *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>*
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[WriterOfMinds]

On Thursday, August 19, 2021, at 10:11 AM, Quan Tesla wrote:
> ... would you consider your intelligence to be committed to a rapid 
> evolutionary process with purpose to eventually assume network-interactive 
> cyborgian functionality?



Nope.

I might describe myself as transhumanism-curious. I am definitely not 
transhumanism-committed. Whether I would accept implants, internal nanobots, or 
genetic modification (which mRNA vaccines are not equipped to perform, by the 
way) would depend heavily on the circumstances.
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Quan Tesla]

Have you read my white paper on last-mile knowledge engineering, which I
shared more than once to this forum? If you hadn't, do go read it and let's
discuss/critique the technical implications for agi development.
On 19 Aug 2021 09:00,  wrote:

> I'm not sure what you're trying to say NKT, I'm here and listening if you
> have a way to make AGI or solve death.
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
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> 
>

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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Quan Tesla]

For many years, a program called Magic has been rewriting and merging code
from different languages. Pitrat's agi autogenerated code and in doing so
improved upon known solutions to many, classical mathematical problems.
On 19 Aug 2021 16:27, "John Rose"  wrote:

> On Thursday, August 19, 2021, at 12:31 AM, Nanograte Knowledge
> Technologies wrote:
>
> Bots write better software than humans do.
>
>
> In some ways they do, for example Visual Studio (which I use) has
> Intellicode which suggests snippets quite well. But with bots writing
> software there are huge improvements needed still. I often have thought
> about focusing on this area. There is so much to be done with so many
> possibilities.
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Quan Tesla]

I have a general question. Given the nanotech now integrated with your DNA,
would you consider your intelligence to be committed to a rapid
evolutionary process with purpose to eventually assume network-interactive
cyborgian functionality?

I concede there are other methods with which to achieve cyborg status as
well, but essentially it comprises merging intelligence-enabled tech (such
as nano graphene machines) and bio carriers (as one form of biotech) with a
natural system.
On 19 Aug 2021 09:35, "WriterOfMinds"  wrote:

> On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, at 10:31 PM, Nanograte Knowledge
> Technologies wrote:
>
> We're somewhat out of time. Let's see what happens this month, then - if
> we're lucky - we'll talk again.
>
> What's special about this month?
> And I take it you think *I'm* a cyborg now. You don't even have any
> questions for me?
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[John Rose]

For example, dot net has a feature called reflection, as does Java, that 
enables code to look at itself. Using this all sorts of chores are typically 
done in everyday development. Yet reflection has not been utilized to its full 
capability IMO. In some ways yes, for example look at NSwag API wrapper 
generator... but with knowledge and mathematical structure in relation to AGI 
more coding work can be automated realtime using reflection. I’m sure though 
many AGI devs have been using the capability to some extent.
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[John Rose]

On Thursday, August 19, 2021, at 12:31 AM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies 
wrote:
> Bots write better software than humans do.

In some ways they do, for example Visual Studio (which I use) has Intellicode 
which suggests snippets quite well. But with bots writing software there are 
huge improvements needed still. I often have thought about focusing on this 
area. There is so much to be done with so many possibilities.
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[immortal . discoveries]

Ya this thread is on Alan's chip implant vaccine sabatoge and NKT replied to it 
lol.it's an experimental drug, only take it if you have real big sh*t at 
stake like you are an actress that is raking in 500Million a year and could 
lose your life. I didn't take it, I stay at home mostly, and I'm 26 years old 
so I can fight somewhat.
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[WriterOfMinds]

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, at 10:31 PM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies 
wrote:
> We're somewhat out of time. Let's see what happens this month, then - if 
> we're lucky - we'll talk again.
What's special about this month? 
And I take it you think *I'm* a cyborg now. You don't even have any questions 
for me?
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[immortal . discoveries]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say NKT, I'm here and listening if you have 
a way to make AGI or solve death.
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Nanograte Knowledge Technologies]

In my opinion, agi is about wetware development, not software development. Bots 
write better software than humans do.

This is not the version of agi, which I advocated for. I advocated for a purely 
machine-based agi species. My convictions were recorded on this forum. My lines 
were clearly drawn in favor of humankind and earthkind and earth.

However, it was vanity, greed, and an insatiable lust for power, which 
ultimately broke through the natural barriers. It's here now. NGI = AGI = cyborg

Revolutionary programmers should now figure out how to mitigate the 
overwhelming threats of intended consequences.

I'm still open to collaborate with ideas and designs. However, no one responded 
in earnest over the past 3 years. Why would anyone now? We're somewhat out of 
time. Let's see what happens this month, then - if we're lucky - we'll talk 
again.






From: John Rose 
Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2021 20:59
To: AGI 
Subject: Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, at 2:38 PM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies 
wrote:
Seriously, you're going to refer to the OS/2 relic when we're talking about agi 
in context of the 'Internet of People'?

Hot air balloons vs spacecraft.

Comparatively in the context of software systems development. Operating systems 
and their associated ecosystems have historical patterns. Software development 
has repeating patterns especially in large complex projects since people are 
doing the development.  Look at the large workflow systems, SAP? Or globally 
distributed telecom systems that phase in and out some succeed some die but 
they come not in one instance but many. AGI is many in various stages of 
development.

BTW I usually use the web interface for this email list lately. Some email 
clients can goof up the copied text replies:
https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/Tace3f9aea35af378/black-winter

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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[immortal . discoveries]

Darn those little nutacases that remove precious text. Here it is again back 
from the dead!! And I shall save it to my computer, now!:
https://www.socialgrep.com/search?query=ilya%20sutskever
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[John Rose]

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, at 2:38 PM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies 
wrote:
> Seriously, you're going to refer to the OS/2 relic when we're talking about 
> agi in context of the 'Internet of People'?
>  
>  Hot air balloons vs spacecraft.  

Comparatively in the context of software systems development. Operating systems 
and their associated ecosystems have historical patterns. Software development 
has repeating patterns especially in large complex projects since people are 
doing the development.  Look at the large workflow systems, SAP? Or globally 
distributed telecom systems that phase in and out some succeed some die but 
they come not in one instance but many. AGI is many in various stages of 
development.

BTW I usually use the web interface for this email list lately. Some email 
clients can goof up the copied text replies:
https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/Tace3f9aea35af378/black-winter

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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Nanograte Knowledge Technologies]

Insight, not from me, no.

Seriously, you're going to refer to the OS/2 relic when we're talking about agi 
in context of the 'Internet of People'?

Hot air balloons vs spacecraft.



From: John Rose 
Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2021 10:59
To: AGI 
Subject: Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, at 2:59 AM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies 
wrote:
So much balderdash and egotistical tripe on this group these days, with flashes 
of occasional insight. I'm here for the rare flashes only. Someone, somewhere, 
must soon, and hopefully real soon, realize how insane all of this jabber 
sounds. I think "agi" is busy devouring your brains. You're obviously living 
(if this is what we can call it) in a computer simulation of your own making, 
as a delusional reality in the hope of being tossed a bone.

Meantime, agi is quietly being rolled out by the big names in many, different 
forms. Next to follow is integration with IoT and consolidation. Say ta-ta to 
the ship as it steams away. Remember to switch off the light.

Where's the insight from you?

Yeah yeah yeah I remember being warned that the OS/2 ship is sailing off and 
was gonna be stranded.

It's not a ship it's a fleet. And perhaps a fleet of fleets.
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Nanograte Knowledge Technologies]

No John, I didn't write this. Correct your source.

John stated: "On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, at 2:59 AM, Nanograte Knowledge 
Technologies wrote:
That's missing the point. Evolution programmed you to fear death and then die. 
We invented religion to cope.

Any self replicating nanotechnology would evolve the same way."



From: John Rose 
Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2021 11:24
To: AGI 
Subject: Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, at 2:59 AM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies 
wrote:
That's missing the point. Evolution programmed you to fear death and then die. 
We invented religion to cope.

Any self replicating nanotechnology would evolve the same way.

That's an oversimplification. If you study the development of intelligence 
among civilization one might say that religion is about contemporary 
consciousness and communication. But we weren't referring to religion here just 
"God" as an independent conceptual entity. So don't get triggered.

>From an AI's perspective "God" would be considered a representation. It exists 
>across numerous text corpora. Just ask GPT-3 :)
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[James Bowery]

That is applicable to mitotic life, not meotic life.  The selfish genes
that invented sex also invented the mortal individual -- programmed for
death -- as its ultimate evolutionary platform, resulting in the Cambrian
Explosion once that platform had been perfected.  It is disadvantageous to
those selfish genes for you to fear death so much that you gut the
viability of your offspring or the offspring of your relatives and even the
offspring of your ethny

.

Where "religion" comes into play is when parasitic castration perverts the
ordinary self-sacrifice of sexual Being:

https://youtu.be/Df_iGe_JSzI

I scare-quote "religion" because what Dawkins calls "the moral zeitgeist"
has all the attributes of parasitic castration about it.

Cui bono

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 9:47 PM Matt Mahoney 
wrote:

> That's missing the point. Evolution programmed you to fear death and then
> die. We invented religion to cope.
>
> Any self replicating nanotechnology would evolve the same way.
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 4:37 PM John Rose  wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, August 17, 2021, at 1:34 PM, magnuswootton81 wrote:
>>
>> god kills off everyone, he doesnt give a shit.
>>
>>
>> [(Big Banks) + (Big Gov't) + (Big Tech) + (Big Pharma) + (Big Media)] are
>> playing God.
>>
>> but, AGI can be the slingshot that takes down Goliath... unless one of
>> them get AGI first then prepare to be culled. Depop agenda assumes killing
>> x reduces mean temp by y when x is large.
>>
>> So.. code faster 
>>
>> BTW Ivermectin works for me.
>>
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  +
> delivery options 
> Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[John Rose]

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, at 6:17 AM, immortal.discoveries wrote:
> Not black winter but summer shine:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/p5uh1r/openais_chief_scientist_ilya_sutskever_comments/

Yes. AGI will become 10 with a lot of zeros after it smarter. And they'll be an 
infinite amount of things happening. And and and they'll be like wars 'n stuff. 
I feel strongly about that. And your refrigerator’s beliefs and desires will 
become important. But there's skepticism because it's so huge. And and they’ll 
be lots of parties with naked chicks yeah working in parallel yeah yeah. All 
free yes across the surface of the Earth. And at the forefront nobody has to 
work. But who will benefit in the End Game?
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[immortal . discoveries]

I like the part where he just about copy pasta what I say haha
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[immortal . discoveries]

Not black winter but summer shine:
https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/p5uh1r/openais_chief_scientist_ilya_sutskever_comments/
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[John Rose]

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, at 2:59 AM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies 
wrote:
> That's missing the point. Evolution programmed you to fear death and then 
> die. We invented religion to cope.
> 
> Any self replicating nanotechnology would evolve the same way.

That's an oversimplification. If you study the development of intelligence 
among civilization one might say that religion is about contemporary 
consciousness and communication. But we weren't referring to religion here just 
"God" as an independent conceptual entity. So don't get triggered.

>From an AI's perspective "God" would be considered a representation. It exists 
>across numerous text corpora. Just ask GPT-3 :)  
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[John Rose]

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, at 2:59 AM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies 
wrote:
> So much balderdash and egotistical tripe on this group these days, with 
> flashes of occasional insight. I'm here for the rare flashes only. Someone, 
> somewhere, must soon, and hopefully real soon, realize how insane all of this 
> jabber sounds. I think "agi" is
 busy devouring your brains. You're obviously living (if this is what we can 
call it) in a computer simulation of your own making, as a delusional reality 
in the hope of being tossed a bone. 
>  
>  Meantime, agi is quietly being rolled out by the big names in many, 
> different forms. Next to follow is integration with IoT and consolidation. 
> Say ta-ta to the ship as it steams away. Remember to switch off the light. 

Where's the insight from you?

Yeah yeah yeah I remember being warned that the OS/2 ship is sailing off and 
was gonna be stranded.

It's not a ship it's a fleet. And perhaps a fleet of fleets.
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[immortal . discoveries]

Ya well OpenAI requires you to go to their building to be part of the team, and 
I'm not doing that. I'm going to stay safe in my home. California could fall 
into the ocean BTW, better I stay away from the darn place. Once they get more 
intelligent they can hit me up online. They actually currently do online 
interviews but it's clear they still think different, and they'll want me to be 
already familiar with GPT like they do their do. Maybe if I learn GPT well 
enough they will see me accel at GPT and upgrading it, so it would make sense 
they would like me at that point... I don't do resumes, I don't do CVs, I just 
simplify...once I make or learn something better hopefully they can see I am 
useful, that's all I can say.

As for Google, where is anyway their "GPT" team? Let me go look it up. It's as 
if GPT-J has read this lol. https://deepmind.com/careers/jobs/469515 Well the 
following link shows it seems Google Brain/ DeepMind is all about Locations 
too, you have to got there, get paid, show papers, do magic. I'm staying at my 
safe home.

And for heavens sake, they always expect to being payinggg me??? I don't need 
to be payed by DeepMindI can do without it... They seriously are not 
thinking hard enough how to make a bigger better team.

They may do good for AGI but really they lack some hardcore valuesEnter: 
the internet groupers 
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Nanograte Knowledge Technologies]

So much balderdash and egotistical tripe on this group these days, with flashes 
of occasional insight. I'm here for the rare flashes only. Someone, somewhere, 
must soon, and hopefully real soon, realize how insane all of this jabber 
sounds. I think "agi" is busy devouring your brains. You're obviously living 
(if this is what we can call it) in a computer simulation of your own making, 
as a delusional reality in the hope of being tossed a bone.

Meantime, agi is quietly being rolled out by the big names in many, different 
forms. Next to follow is integration with IoT and consolidation. Say ta-ta to 
the ship as it steams away. Remember to switch off the light.


From: Matt Mahoney 
Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2021 04:45
To: AGI 
Subject: Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

That's missing the point. Evolution programmed you to fear death and then die. 
We invented religion to cope.

Any self replicating nanotechnology would evolve the same way.

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 4:37 PM John Rose 
mailto:johnr...@polyplexic.com>> wrote:
On Tuesday, August 17, 2021, at 1:34 PM, magnuswootton81 wrote:
god kills off everyone, he doesnt give a shit.

[(Big Banks) + (Big Gov't) + (Big Tech) + (Big Pharma) + (Big Media)] are 
playing God.

but, AGI can be the slingshot that takes down Goliath... unless one of them get 
AGI first then prepare to be culled. Depop agenda assumes killing x reduces 
mean temp by y when x is large.

So.. code faster 

BTW Ivermectin works for me.
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[immortal . discoveries]

I don't think at such a stage proposed, that nanobots will still believe in god 
Matt. . . . . that would not fit in with having a world full of alive metal 
ugborgs made of super powered batteries.it's one way or the other
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Matt Mahoney]

That's missing the point. Evolution programmed you to fear death and then
die. We invented religion to cope.

Any self replicating nanotechnology would evolve the same way.

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 4:37 PM John Rose  wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 17, 2021, at 1:34 PM, magnuswootton81 wrote:
>
> god kills off everyone, he doesnt give a shit.
>
>
> [(Big Banks) + (Big Gov't) + (Big Tech) + (Big Pharma) + (Big Media)] are
> playing God.
>
> but, AGI can be the slingshot that takes down Goliath... unless one of
> them get AGI first then prepare to be culled. Depop agenda assumes killing
> x reduces mean temp by y when x is large.
>
> So.. code faster 
>
> BTW Ivermectin works for me.
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
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Re: [agi] Re: Black Winter

[Mike Archbold]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3HQMbQAWRc

On 8/17/21, John Rose  wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 17, 2021, at 1:34 PM, magnuswootton81 wrote:
>> god kills off everyone, he doesnt give a shit.
> 
> [(Big Banks) + (Big Gov't) + (Big Tech) + (Big Pharma) + (Big Media)] are
> playing God.
> 
> but, AGI can be the slingshot that takes down Goliath... unless one of them
> get AGI first then prepare to be culled. Depop agenda assumes killing x
> reduces mean temp by y when x is large.
> 
> So.. code faster 
> 
> BTW Ivermectin works for me.

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