Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP images
Sorry for the late followup, but I want to share my lovely Cisco experience. First, after placing orders for the $8 contracts with both CDW and INSIGHT and having both orders cancelled a week later (for some supplier problem), I went with the $74 contract from INSIGHT (CDW wanted $84, IIRC). I actually got that contract. Then, I tried to register the phone, only to find that the factory-applied serial number wasn't even in Cisco's database. (Another phone's serial number from the same purchase worked fine.) I actually had a Cisco customer support person tell me once you give us a valid serial number for the phone, we can open a case for the invalid serial number on the phone. I was speechless. I never had an issue with who owned the phone. I told Cisco it belonged to a client (true) and I didn't know who purchased it. They seemed fine with that. Upgrading old (Circa 2000) Cisco 7960 phones is a joy in itself. They don't actually follow any documented self-update procedure AND the procedure they do follow changes significantly by current firmware version. Plus, you can't upgrade directly from an old (v6) firmware version to a new version. tcpdump is your friend. Watch closely for the first file the phone wants. Edit that file. Keep in mind the phone may choose to ignore that file and look in SIPDefault.cnf or MCGDeulft.cnf instead. Having said all that, I firmly believe that the Cisco 7960s are BY FAR the BEST IP phones available. It's a real credit to Cisco's engineers, product designers, etc. that a product's setup/upgrade can be so completely horrific and people will still demand their product. cheers, glenn On Mon, March 28, 2005 12:54 pm, Rich Adamson said: As a side note to the above (in the US), the contract reseller is suppose to obtain the phone's serial number. If that serial number is not registered to the individual requesting the contract, the contract supposedly will not be issued. That process is apparently used to identify when used phones are sold via eBay (etc), and essentially says one does not have a valid software license therefore it cannot be placed on maintenance. (A software license cannot be transferred with the sale of a used phone or any of cisco's equipment.) That same process is used for all Cisco equipment, however some used equipment resellers have been able to find ways around it (one way or another). Once a maintenance contract number has been issued (regardless of whether its on a piece of paper or email), that contract number has to be entered into a cisco system that tracks the number against a customer account. If you don't have a customer account, that process can't be completed either. Some resellers will create your account for you and others won't. Once the account has been created and the contract recorded, then the customer is granted access to the download sections of their site via their login/authentication process. So the bottom line is the process requires a fair amount of manual labor and for $8 (in the US), few resellers have any interest in the sales commission resulting from an $8 sale. (Guess that says if you're buying 500 contracts, one might receive a different level of reseller interest.) Regardless of whether we like it or not, cisco wrote the license terms and asterisk users are not going to change their machine. It's obviously written to discourage reselling used equipment without paying a re-certification fee, and that re-certification re-license process can get to be far more costly then simply purchasing their new equipment. Surprise surprise! I don't work for cisco or any of their resellers. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP images
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris W wrote: In a sense this cound be off-topic but I hope it isn't considered so. Apologies already if it is! Can anyone point me in the right direction to get new SIP images for the Cisco 7960 phone? I found P0S30202 around (ie v2.02) and it works but lacks a lot of the features the phone boasts so I'm looking for updates. I googled and found that you can get a support contract via 1-800-INSIGHT but guess what! They're in the US and won't issue licences outside the country. I'm in the Netherlands so that ain't gonna make matters easy. I guess I need v.3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 to get the latest stuff. What a lot of upgrading! Any pointers/help most welcome. Thanks in advance Unfortunatley, all the Cisco resellers in Europe I have approached don't seem to be interested in carrying these low value contracts (CON-SNT-CP7960 or CON-SNT-ATA186) or don't want to deal in such low volumes and have no method of dealing with such sales. Cisco want you to talk to their resellers, which brings you back right where you started. So to summarise: 1/ Cisco will not sell direct. 2/ North American Resellers will not sell to Europe. 3/ European Resellers do/will not sell single contracts What route is left for guy with a few Cisco phones in Europe? Piracy? /RANT - -- Ron Wellsted http://www.wellsted.org.uk [EMAIL PROTECTED] FWD:519961 Gossiptel:9309811 N 52.567623, W 2.137621 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBQkfGYEtP/KMNOfRbAQKAZwgAi1QXt7d9Igy4o2dHG+qqG6KApixH01Xu x2lns+WvPwuDcHF5uBzJjfxGG4jVrgLtIg1la7M6P8Bu6u2nZQyz0fJk8UhVN4bp drsXHmjq44UyDel9Kn2Q6zvhfuND84qZTBAQ9MbLXnogQlg9vB067975P8rQ7+vK WX598aP0i5tDDMvhUNVZX/epYuIby0E6YdLwGaARcpcERWiQfG2tkY9EcVots1qt rcruHJZO4yutOwIY6irzmMpCShj+SShfRwNiI4+ggJIchUnaq+Il4ly4nMbDl2Px 5EZBWzECnQPRxeatKKyngZXUbMcFm9FozgLP7eHMol73QwlbWDjqfQ== =toHG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP images
On Monday 28 March 2005 09:54, Ron Wellsted wrote: [...] So to summarise: 1/ Cisco will not sell direct. 2/ North American Resellers will not sell to Europe. 3/ European Resellers do/will not sell single contracts What route is left for guy with a few Cisco phones in Europe? Piracy? /RANT I don't think http://www.s2s.ltd.uk/ care how little you buy. B ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP images
Ron Wellsted wrote: What route is left for guy with a few Cisco phones in Europe? Piracy? I looked around for nearly a year for a contract after a kind soul got me the images (the closest I got was a site in the US who were prepared to sell me the CON-SNT-CP7960 for £8 ... with £150 Postage!!!)... eventually gave up and ordered a CON-SNT-PKG1 package from lanway which I managed to get for £42. Of course being a Cisco contract it still hasn't arrived 2.5 weeks later. Cisco are the first company I've ever come across who seem to actively resent having customers and would rather you went with someone else. Tony ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP images
On Monday 28 March 2005 14:58, Tony Hoyle wrote: Ron Wellsted wrote: What route is left for guy with a few Cisco phones in Europe? Piracy? I looked around for nearly a year for a contract after a kind soul got me the images (the closest I got was a site in the US who were prepared to sell me the CON-SNT-CP7960 for £8 ... with £150 Postage!!!)... eventually gave up and ordered a CON-SNT-PKG1 package from lanway which I managed to get for £42. Of course being a Cisco contract it still hasn't arrived 2.5 weeks later. Cisco are the first company I've ever come across who seem to actively resent having customers and would rather you went with someone else. It doesn't arrive. It's all done instantly via email. B ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP images
Bob Goddard wrote: It doesn't arrive. It's all done instantly via email. There's a whole package apparently (hence the £150 postage I was quoted, although I suspect they just weren't interested in selling). Even the entry on voip-info.org says it takes two weeks... Once you buy it the request goes to Cisco who have to get off their backsides and actually issue you with the thing. Nothing yet, although I'll be chasing it again tomorrow (unfortunately it's impossible to chase it directly with cisco as they refuse to deal with mere customers). I've come *so* close to putting the phone on ebay and forgetting about it. Certainly I'll never buy a cisco product again. Tony ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP images
If you call Cisco contract support. 1-800-447-9347 and give them the serial number used when you purchased the smartnet they will give you the contract number over the phone. If the contract was sold properly the reseller would have asked you for the serial number of the unit and turned that into Cisco. Cisco should have then emailed the contract number to you. My experience has been they only email you about half the time and you have to call them the other half. Henry - Original Message - From: Tony Hoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP images Bob Goddard wrote: It doesn't arrive. It's all done instantly via email. There's a whole package apparently (hence the £150 postage I was quoted, although I suspect they just weren't interested in selling). Even the entry on voip-info.org says it takes two weeks... Once you buy it the request goes to Cisco who have to get off their backsides and actually issue you with the thing. Nothing yet, although I'll be chasing it again tomorrow (unfortunately it's impossible to chase it directly with cisco as they refuse to deal with mere customers). I've come *so* close to putting the phone on ebay and forgetting about it. Certainly I'll never buy a cisco product again. Tony ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP images
It doesn't arrive. It's all done instantly via email. There's a whole package apparently (hence the £150 postage I was quoted, although I suspect they just weren't interested in selling). Even the entry on voip-info.org says it takes two weeks... Once you buy it the request goes to Cisco who have to get off their backsides and actually issue you with the thing. Nothing yet, although I'll be chasing it again tomorrow (unfortunately it's impossible to chase it directly with cisco as they refuse to deal with mere customers). I've come *so* close to putting the phone on ebay and forgetting about it. Certainly I'll never buy a cisco product again. As a side note to the above (in the US), the contract reseller is suppose to obtain the phone's serial number. If that serial number is not registered to the individual requesting the contract, the contract supposedly will not be issued. That process is apparently used to identify when used phones are sold via eBay (etc), and essentially says one does not have a valid software license therefore it cannot be placed on maintenance. (A software license cannot be transferred with the sale of a used phone or any of cisco's equipment.) That same process is used for all Cisco equipment, however some used equipment resellers have been able to find ways around it (one way or another). Once a maintenance contract number has been issued (regardless of whether its on a piece of paper or email), that contract number has to be entered into a cisco system that tracks the number against a customer account. If you don't have a customer account, that process can't be completed either. Some resellers will create your account for you and others won't. Once the account has been created and the contract recorded, then the customer is granted access to the download sections of their site via their login/authentication process. So the bottom line is the process requires a fair amount of manual labor and for $8 (in the US), few resellers have any interest in the sales commission resulting from an $8 sale. (Guess that says if you're buying 500 contracts, one might receive a different level of reseller interest.) Regardless of whether we like it or not, cisco wrote the license terms and asterisk users are not going to change their machine. It's obviously written to discourage reselling used equipment without paying a re-certification fee, and that re-certification re-license process can get to be far more costly then simply purchasing their new equipment. Surprise surprise! I don't work for cisco or any of their resellers. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP images
Henry Devito wrote: If you call Cisco contract support. 1-800-447-9347 and give them the serial number used when you purchased the smartnet they will give you the contract number over the phone. If the contract was sold properly No serial number was asked for.. I just explained that I just wanted the smartnet contract and they took my credit card details. Presumably not all dealers work the way cisco would like them to. TBH I'm not even sure I know the serial of that phone - threw the box away months ago. Tony ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP images
Serial number is on the bottom of phone. Email me off list I will help. - Original Message - From: Tony Hoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP images Henry Devito wrote: If you call Cisco contract support. 1-800-447-9347 and give them the serial number used when you purchased the smartnet they will give you the contract number over the phone. If the contract was sold properly No serial number was asked for.. I just explained that I just wanted the smartnet contract and they took my credit card details. Presumably not all dealers work the way cisco would like them to. TBH I'm not even sure I know the serial of that phone - threw the box away months ago. Tony ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
Rich Adamson wrote: Wanta take a guess what would happen if Cisco decide to really enforce the legal rules? I'll bite: Their market share would plummet in all their markets, and then smaller, more innovative companies would become more able to compete with them, and the overall marketplace would be vastly improved because of more participants and more choices? B. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 03:46:34AM -0500, Brian Capouch said: Rich Adamson wrote: Wanta take a guess what would happen if Cisco decide to really enforce the legal rules? I'll bite: Their market share would plummet in all their markets, and then smaller, more innovative companies would become more able to compete with them, and the overall marketplace would be vastly improved because of more participants and more choices? This is probably true. I would also hazzard a guess that most of the people buying used Cisco gear don't have a clue that they don't have a software license. There are also some that DO know, but don't care if they are violating the license. That's a little too risky for me though. For those of you in smaller shops, the HP procurve switches are quite nice and have lifetime support and downloadable updates without needing to register. Don't know if they have POE versions which VOIP implementors may be interested in however. You can also get a fully managed 24 port layer 3 HP switch for about $200 on ebay. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
Brian Cuthie wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roderick Montgomery Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images ... ### ### Hardware != Software ### Cisco IOS Software, phone firmware, etc. is normally bundled with hardware at the time of purchase, because, frankly, the hardware isn't really of much use without software. You may resell the hardware (which, looking at eBay, happens frequently), but the software license DOES NOT transfer from one end user to another. There are only a few exceptions to this rule, such as for business affiliates, mergers, acquisitions, lease buyouts, and outsourcing arrangements. Frankly, this is a horrible policy. It's designed to eliminate the market for used gear so that vendors can force people to buy new equipment. Frankly, anyone with this business model should be ashamed. And anyone buying equipment under such circumstances should beware. The assets they think they're purchasing today have substantially less value than they think since they can't effectively resell them when they're no longer needed. -brian ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users I think it is time to start a Linux on Cisco hardware project, if one does not already exist. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
Wanta take a guess what would happen if Cisco decide to really enforce the legal rules? I'll bite: Their market share would plummet in all their markets, and then smaller, more innovative companies would become more able to compete with them, and the overall marketplace would be vastly improved because of more participants and more choices? B. I can't wait for that day. I don't deny that cisco make some nice products, but I don't like companies who have the attitude that since they're big and powerful they can invent whatever pricing policy they want and rip off the consumer. Of course, the argument is that as a consumer I can simply choose not to buy if I don't want to - and indeed we are now turning towards Polycom phones rather than Cisco. Cisco phones are already expensive enough - it is simply cheeky that they should have to charge further for the software that runs on the phone. That is a joke. All hardware includes software to some degree, yet one doesn't have to pay creative labs for the drivers that power their soundcards, nor Vegastream for the bundled web manage interface. And when bugs are fixed, it should be the responsibility of manufacturers to update them - the bugs shouldn't exist in the first place. Reading through some of the arguments on this thread (both pro anti Cisco) it is interesting how some feel that we should be paying Cisco the money they are demanding because it funds research and development - ironic considering this very list is about community support for a community made project. Asterisk, like many other open source projects, prove that innovation CAN and DOES take place without direct financial incentive - indeed the likes of sendmail, bind, apache etc... were around years before Microshaft came out with its equivalent tripe - and they charge piss loads for what is effectively a piece of shite. For the Cisco phones we DO have, we don't have any purchased licenses and I don't ever intend on getting any either. Cisco can sue my ass if they really want to. - Terence ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
On Tuesday 30 March 2004 12:34, Terence Parker wrote: Wanta take a guess what would happen if Cisco decide to really enforce the legal rules? I'll bite: Their market share would plummet in all their markets, and then smaller, more innovative companies would become more able to compete with them, and the overall marketplace would be vastly improved because of more participants and more choices? B. I can't wait for that day. I don't deny that cisco make some nice products, but I don't like companies who have the attitude that since they're big and powerful they can invent whatever pricing policy they want and rip off the consumer. Of course, the argument is that as a consumer I can simply choose not to buy if I don't want to - and indeed we are now turning towards Polycom phones rather than Cisco. Cisco phones are already expensive enough - it is simply cheeky that they should have to charge further for the software that runs on the phone. That is a joke. All hardware includes software to some degree, yet one doesn't have to pay creative labs for the drivers that power their soundcards, nor Vegastream for the bundled web manage interface. And when bugs are fixed, it should be the responsibility of manufacturers to update them - the bugs shouldn't exist in the first place. Reading through some of the arguments on this thread (both pro anti Cisco) it is interesting how some feel that we should be paying Cisco the money they are demanding because it funds research and development - ironic considering this very list is about community support for a community made project. Asterisk, like many other open source projects, prove that innovation CAN and DOES take place without direct financial incentive - indeed the likes of sendmail, bind, apache etc... were around years before Microshaft came out with its equivalent tripe - and they charge piss loads for what is effectively a piece of shite. For the Cisco phones we DO have, we don't have any purchased licenses and I don't ever intend on getting any either. Cisco can sue my ass if they really want to. I have no problem with the idea of paying cisco for software that they write. In fact I have no problem with with paying for software full stop. But I'd love to have enough money to sue them if that software proved to have security issues or proved to be not fit for purpose - eg if a phone had a bug in its implementation of SIP. If people/companies want to charge for software fine (after all it takes time/money to develop) but they should be willing to take the responsibility that goes with it. Most companies don't - at least if you cantact cisco with a problem then they'll do their best to fix it or at least come up with a work-around, which is more than a certain other companies do. Jon ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images ... I have no problem with the idea of paying cisco for software that they write. In fact I have no problem with with paying for software full stop. But I'd love to have enough money to sue them if that software proved to have security issues or proved to be not fit for purpose - eg if a phone had a bug in its implementation of SIP. If people/companies want to charge for software fine (after all it takes time/money to develop) but they should be willing to take the responsibility that goes with it. Most companies don't - at least if you cantact cisco with a problem then they'll do their best to fix it or at least come up with a work-around, which is more than a certain other companies do. Jon I don't have a problem paying for updates, even if they include bug fixes. I write software for a living, and it's an imperfect art. My beef with Cisco is that the software license doesn't travel with the device. Without the license you can't buy an upgrade even if you want to. -brian ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
Yep, that would be my guess -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Capouch Sent: Tuesday, 30 March 2004 6:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images Rich Adamson wrote: Wanta take a guess what would happen if Cisco decide to really enforce the legal rules? I'll bite: Their market share would plummet in all their markets, and then smaller, more innovative companies would become more able to compete with them, and the overall marketplace would be vastly improved because of more participants and more choices? B. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
On Tuesday 30 March 2004 19:01, Brian Cuthie wrote: My beef with Cisco is that the software license doesn't travel with the device. Without the license you can't buy an upgrade even if you want to. Indeed that bit is a complete joke. I can't think of anything that could be done about it though. Jon ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
According to Iain Stevenson: Welcome to the very much less than wonderful world of Cisco software support. When will those guys simply make the software downloadable straight away from their website for a modest fee? According to Chris HARIGA: If you pay 8 USD for 1 year support you can download the image :) That may be true, but before downloading, you must first agree that you're licensed for the software image. Cisco presumes that paying customers will do the right thing. You also agree, by the way, that you will pay for the license on demand if it is determined that you downloaded an image for which you are not licensed. As an Account Manager for a Cisco Premier Partner (with IP Telephony specialization) *and* an Asterisk user/administrator/enthusiast, I see a lot of confusion and grumbling within the Asterisk community about Cisco's licensing, pricing, and support. Hopefully I can correct some misconceptions about all three. ### ### Cisco sells software ### First, understand that Cisco considers themselves a software company. Yes, they manufacture tons of hardware, and do millions in RD each year, but most of the magic happens in software. It is fallacy to assume that the software is free of charge, or comes free with a hardware purchase, or that all future software updates are available for $8/year. By contrast, Digium sells telephony hardware while the Asterisk software is free of charge. That's a perfectly legitimate business model, but it's not Cisco's. New Cisco products are sold only one of two ways - direct from Cisco, or through one of Cisco's Channel Partners. Use the following to locate a legitimate Cisco Channel Partner: URL:http://tools.cisco.com/WWChannels/LOCATR/jsp/partner_locator.jsp ### ### Hardware != Software ### Cisco IOS Software, phone firmware, etc. is normally bundled with hardware at the time of purchase, because, frankly, the hardware isn't really of much use without software. You may resell the hardware (which, looking at eBay, happens frequently), but the software license DOES NOT transfer from one end user to another. There are only a few exceptions to this rule, such as for business affiliates, mergers, acquisitions, lease buyouts, and outsourcing arrangements. Under normal circumstances, if you buy Cisco hardware from anyone OTHER THAN Cisco or a Cisco Channel Partner, the hardware does NOT come with a software license. That must be purchased separately by the end user. Translation: eBay buyers beware! Every time a piece of Cisco equipment is sold as previously owned or used, and requires any Cisco software, a new software license needs to be purchased. See the following for more details: URL:http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/765/products/usedEquipmentResources.shtml ### ### SMARTnet Support ### Cisco SMARTnet support is optional and completely separate from hardware purchase and software licensing. SMARTnet support provides rapid access to vital information and assistance when you need it, including: * Registered access to Cisco.com for online tools and technical assistance * Access to the Cisco Technical Assistance Center (TAC) * Cisco IOS Software updates * Advance Replacement of failed hardware SMARTnet is offered with or without onsite assistance (great for busy staff or unstaffed remote offices), and at three service levels: 24x7x4, 8x5x4, and 8x5xNBD (Next Business Day). Each product (IP phone, router, switch) falls into a service category that determines the pricing level for SMARTnet. For Cisco operating systems such as Cisco IOS and CatOS, all software updates for licensed feature sets for your covered platform are included in the basic SMARTnet. Software updates include bug fixes and maintenance, minor, and major releases within a feature set. No additional charge for updates is warranted as long as the product remains under Cisco SMARTnet coverage. For more info on SMARTnet, see: URL:http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/svcs/ps3034/ps2827/ps2978/serv_home.html ### ### Pricing Tailored to Your Needs ### With such a range of options, Cisco pricing reflects your feature requirements and support needs. * Have you purchased used hardware off eBay and need the latest software? There's an inspection and relicensing process that can make your gear fully legit. * Do you need a Cisco IP Phone with a SIP software image and no ongoing support? No problem. * Do you require IP-only IOS rather than VPN/Firewalling IOS? The former is more affordable than the latter. * Do you need 24x7x4 onsite support for a lights-out remote office 823 miles from your IT staff? We can cover that, too. Cisco makes some great products -- I think my 7920 phone is amazing -- but their software is not free, and their support is priced separately. If you want support on your phone, switch, router, whatever... feel free to give me a call or email off-list. If you have questions about licensing for hardware that you're purchased, feel free to ask. If you
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
Roderick Montgomery wrote: * Have you purchased used hardware off eBay and need the latest software? There's an inspection and relicensing process that can make your gear fully legit. Ummm, with a mountain of red tape surrounding the whole deal, and basically at a cost that ensures most people will give up and just buy new Cisco gear and have it done with. . . Cisco's model is to keep their hands in your pockets as deeply and consistently as possible, and it is unfortunate. They have generally very good products, but they treat their customers as if they had the watertight monopoly that Micro$oft does, which they do not. This is why many people who are forced to do business with them do so only to the degree they are forced to, and secretly (or not so secretly) hope that eventually this abject greed leads to their comeuppance. And as I'm sure you well know, they are draconian with their resellers, as well, forcing them to eat most of the problems of their small-volume customers, and often treating the resellers like indentured labor. IMO it is never a good thing for a company to have so many customers who hate them, and who will so readily say that the only reason they deal with them is lack of viable alternatives. B. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
A license for a used 7960 is about a $115 hickey. Ouch. http://www.z-buy.com/product.asp?item=ET-SWCCMUL7960 As they say in Vegas, thanks for playing. John On Mon, 2004-03-29 at 15:14, Roderick Montgomery wrote: According to Iain Stevenson: Welcome to the very much less than wonderful world of Cisco software support. When will those guys simply make the software downloadable straight away from their website for a modest fee? According to Chris HARIGA: If you pay 8 USD for 1 year support you can download the image :) That may be true, but before downloading, you must first agree that you're licensed for the software image. Cisco presumes that paying customers will do the right thing. You also agree, by the way, that you will pay for the license on demand if it is determined that you downloaded an image for which you are not licensed. As an Account Manager for a Cisco Premier Partner (with IP Telephony specialization) *and* an Asterisk user/administrator/enthusiast, I see a lot of confusion and grumbling within the Asterisk community about Cisco's licensing, pricing, and support. Hopefully I can correct some misconceptions about all three. ### ### Cisco sells software ### First, understand that Cisco considers themselves a software company. Yes, they manufacture tons of hardware, and do millions in RD each year, but most of the magic happens in software. It is fallacy to assume that the software is free of charge, or comes free with a hardware purchase, or that all future software updates are available for $8/year. By contrast, Digium sells telephony hardware while the Asterisk software is free of charge. That's a perfectly legitimate business model, but it's not Cisco's. New Cisco products are sold only one of two ways - direct from Cisco, or through one of Cisco's Channel Partners. Use the following to locate a legitimate Cisco Channel Partner: URL:http://tools.cisco.com/WWChannels/LOCATR/jsp/partner_locator.jsp ### ### Hardware != Software ### Cisco IOS Software, phone firmware, etc. is normally bundled with hardware at the time of purchase, because, frankly, the hardware isn't really of much use without software. You may resell the hardware (which, looking at eBay, happens frequently), but the software license DOES NOT transfer from one end user to another. There are only a few exceptions to this rule, such as for business affiliates, mergers, acquisitions, lease buyouts, and outsourcing arrangements. Under normal circumstances, if you buy Cisco hardware from anyone OTHER THAN Cisco or a Cisco Channel Partner, the hardware does NOT come with a software license. That must be purchased separately by the end user. Translation: eBay buyers beware! Every time a piece of Cisco equipment is sold as previously owned or used, and requires any Cisco software, a new software license needs to be purchased. See the following for more details: URL:http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/765/products/usedEquipmentResources.shtml ### ### SMARTnet Support ### Cisco SMARTnet support is optional and completely separate from hardware purchase and software licensing. SMARTnet support provides rapid access to vital information and assistance when you need it, including: * Registered access to Cisco.com for online tools and technical assistance * Access to the Cisco Technical Assistance Center (TAC) * Cisco IOS Software updates * Advance Replacement of failed hardware SMARTnet is offered with or without onsite assistance (great for busy staff or unstaffed remote offices), and at three service levels: 24x7x4, 8x5x4, and 8x5xNBD (Next Business Day). Each product (IP phone, router, switch) falls into a service category that determines the pricing level for SMARTnet. For Cisco operating systems such as Cisco IOS and CatOS, all software updates for licensed feature sets for your covered platform are included in the basic SMARTnet. Software updates include bug fixes and maintenance, minor, and major releases within a feature set. No additional charge for updates is warranted as long as the product remains under Cisco SMARTnet coverage. For more info on SMARTnet, see: URL:http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/svcs/ps3034/ps2827/ps2978/serv_home.html ### ### Pricing Tailored to Your Needs ### With such a range of options, Cisco pricing reflects your feature requirements and support needs. * Have you purchased used hardware off eBay and need the latest software? There's an inspection and relicensing process that can make your gear fully legit. * Do you need a Cisco IP Phone with a SIP software image and no ongoing support? No problem. * Do you require IP-only IOS rather than VPN/Firewalling IOS? The former is more affordable than the latter. * Do you need 24x7x4 onsite support for a lights-out remote office 823 miles from your IT staff? We can cover that, too. Cisco makes some great
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roderick Montgomery Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images ... ### ### Hardware != Software ### Cisco IOS Software, phone firmware, etc. is normally bundled with hardware at the time of purchase, because, frankly, the hardware isn't really of much use without software. You may resell the hardware (which, looking at eBay, happens frequently), but the software license DOES NOT transfer from one end user to another. There are only a few exceptions to this rule, such as for business affiliates, mergers, acquisitions, lease buyouts, and outsourcing arrangements. Frankly, this is a horrible policy. It's designed to eliminate the market for used gear so that vendors can force people to buy new equipment. Frankly, anyone with this business model should be ashamed. And anyone buying equipment under such circumstances should beware. The assets they think they're purchasing today have substantially less value than they think since they can't effectively resell them when they're no longer needed. -brian ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
How come you have to repurchase software anyway? It was already bought and paid for. Cheers, Dean -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Cuthie Sent: Tuesday, 30 March 2004 9:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roderick Montgomery Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images ... ### ### Hardware != Software ### Cisco IOS Software, phone firmware, etc. is normally bundled with hardware at the time of purchase, because, frankly, the hardware isn't really of much use without software. You may resell the hardware (which, looking at eBay, happens frequently), but the software license DOES NOT transfer from one end user to another. There are only a few exceptions to this rule, such as for business affiliates, mergers, acquisitions, lease buyouts, and outsourcing arrangements. Frankly, this is a horrible policy. It's designed to eliminate the market for used gear so that vendors can force people to buy new equipment. Frankly, anyone with this business model should be ashamed. And anyone buying equipment under such circumstances should beware. The assets they think they're purchasing today have substantially less value than they think since they can't effectively resell them when they're no longer needed. -brian ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
We bought a 6 month old Cisco ONS fiber controller for about $20K that had a 5 year maintenance policy on it. When I called Cisco to enable it, they said that there were 4 1/2 years left but it was void since we were not the original buyer. They offered to cover it again for about $10K. I now understand where the profit comes from. Of course we are running it with no maintenance as we do nearly all of our Cisco gear. Great gear, crap company. Tom At 06:03 PM 3/29/2004, you wrote: How come you have to repurchase software anyway? It was already bought and paid for. Cheers, Dean -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Cuthie Sent: Tuesday, 30 March 2004 9:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roderick Montgomery Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images ... ### ### Hardware != Software ### Cisco IOS Software, phone firmware, etc. is normally bundled with hardware at the time of purchase, because, frankly, the hardware isn't really of much use without software. You may resell the hardware (which, looking at eBay, happens frequently), but the software license DOES NOT transfer from one end user to another. There are only a few exceptions to this rule, such as for business affiliates, mergers, acquisitions, lease buyouts, and outsourcing arrangements. Frankly, this is a horrible policy. It's designed to eliminate the market for used gear so that vendors can force people to buy new equipment. Frankly, anyone with this business model should be ashamed. And anyone buying equipment under such circumstances should beware. The assets they think they're purchasing today have substantially less value than they think since they can't effectively resell them when they're no longer needed. -brian ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
It's just the rule of the game, and the game plan is called by the author (not the user). Its not a lot different then 80% of the software vendors charging a large fee to upgrade when the first digit changes (eg, v1.x to v2.x), just different words. The bottom line is, regardless of who the initial vendor happens to be, how do you pay for talent to stay on top of RFCs, attend IETF (etc) meetings, resolve bugs, lab work, research, interoperability testing, trade shows, you wanting your sales person to buy you a diner, and advance the software? Cisco's approach has been consistent since the early '80s and there is a business reason why the company is #1 -- worldwide. As a user, you always have at least two options. Pick one. As a side note for those that still don't have a clue, go to your favorite software store and buy a copy of Peachtree Complete Accounting for Windows. You'll find that each year you must pay an upgrade fee that is equal to or greater than the initial software cost to keep using it (with current accounting rules). Plus an additional tax table maintenance fee that has nothing to do with the annual upgrade. Their business model sucks you in for $150, but annual maintenance is like getting married! ;) Wanta take a guess what would happen if Cisco decide to really enforce the legal rules? How come you have to repurchase software anyway? It was already bought and paid for. -Original Message- ... ### ### Hardware != Software ### Cisco IOS Software, phone firmware, etc. is normally bundled with hardware at the time of purchase, because, frankly, the hardware isn't really of much use without software. You may resell the hardware (which, looking at eBay, happens frequently), but the software license DOES NOT transfer from one end user to another. There are only a few exceptions to this rule, such as for business affiliates, mergers, acquisitions, lease buyouts, and outsourcing arrangements. Frankly, this is a horrible policy. It's designed to eliminate the market for used gear so that vendors can force people to buy new equipment. Frankly, anyone with this business model should be ashamed. And anyone buying equipment under such circumstances should beware. The assets they think they're purchasing today have substantially less value than they think since they can't effectively resell them when they're no longer needed. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Adamson Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images It's just the rule of the game, and the game plan is called by the author (not the user). Its not a lot different then 80% of the software vendors charging a large fee to upgrade when the first digit changes (eg, v1.x to v2.x), just different words. No, it's hugely different. We're not talking about support and ongoing maintenance releases, we're talking about the right to use the software already in the used box you jusy bought. It's just wrong, and the only thing that keeps them from doing it with the hardware is that the FTC would come after them for restraint of trade. Since SW is considered IP and is 'licsensed' rather than sold, all the normal rules don't apply. What I suspect large customers do is negotiate contracts that include a transferable software license. As always it's the little guys who get screwed. -brian ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Brian Cuthie wrote: Frankly, this is a horrible policy. It's designed to eliminate the market for used gear so that vendors can force people to buy new equipment. After reading this, I wondered why there are so many eBay vendors selling used Cisco kit, seemingly with Cisco's blessing (otherwise they'd get shut down, right?). Then I realised that Cisco gets a nice extra dividend with this gear -- as another poster mentioned with an experience of his, a lot of the gear on the 2nd-hand market probably has paid-up (but non-transferable) contracts with the original purchaser, but the new purchaser has to pay up again. When I went to school that was called double-dipping. So, keeping the 2nd-hand market at least a bit active makes more money for the software side -- just as I'm sure the hardware side makes extra from those who get talked out of going 2nd-hand. Frankly, anyone with this business model should be ashamed. And anyone buying equipment under such circumstances should beware. The assets they think they're purchasing today have substantially less value than they think since they can't effectively resell them when they're no longer needed. Agreed. I now have a couple of quite expensive Cisco-badged paperweights, apparently. How pi$$ed off am I. Now, do I throw more money at them to get use out of them, or give the whole thing up in disgust? Either way, I lose ;( In another post, Rich Adamson wrote: Cisco's approach has been consistent since the early 80's So? This was my first (and very likely to be last) experience as a user/purchaser of Cisco gear. Am I just supposed to know that something I buy in good faith is unusable without coughing up more? Caveat emptor indeed. (One thing I did gain from it though: the 7960, as good a phone it might be, is NOT worth its asking price IMHO. A$1000? Get real.) The software vs hardware argument does not wash with me. I buy a phone -- an item of hardware. I expect that device to work. I do not expect to have to spend more to get the item to function. The fact that software is required to make the device work does not provide a mandate for the vendor to charge extra or separately for the software (it was the vendor's decision to choose to implement the phone's function in software rather than hardware circuitry). The hardware device cannot perform its function without the software, so the software is an essential component of the package and should not be charged separately. How many mainboard vendors charge you extra for your BIOS? Instead, they recognise that the software in the BIOS (along with chipset, layout, funky colour scheme, etc) represents an opportunity for competitive advantage and develop (or licence) software which, along with the freely-available upgrades to it, has been costed into the purchase price of the board. If it was for a worthwhile amount of money it would be worth fighting, as the consumer law down here would be on my side I think... The fact that Cisco has been operating like this since the early 80's does not make it right. I think a whole lot of corporates got sucked into the old mantra of the more you pay, the better it must be, thereby creating the Cisco that we have today. Anyway, sorry, this is only barely on-topic for this list... Cheers, Vic Cross ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
Hi Chris, Chris HARIGA wrote: If you pay 8 USD for 1 year support you can download the image :) Best regards, Someone mentioned a while ago that even if you have a support contract for the SIP image this doesn't mean you have a license to use the software. JR ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
I have recieved far more that my money's worth in technical calls to Cisco about my 7960 telephones. They respond immediately. They keep working until the job is done. The pull in whatever resources are neccessary. They have never failed to find and fix the problem. If you want professional, real technical support you should be willing to pay for it, or in this case part of it. Paul Mahler mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 7:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images What you and so may others on this lise seem to forget is that Cisco is a company offering bsuiness products for businesses. Businesses typically pay by check and wire transfer, especially for items such as this. If you want home-user pay-by-credit-card service, buy products from Belkin's home line and similar. Oh...what's that? None of these cheesy Stocked-at-Costco hardware companies have any VoIP phones worth a crap? Then deal with the fact that you are buying from a company who doesn't target home users, and deal with it. It costs Cisco more money than they make on the contract to offer SmartNet on a single device like this. You're lucky they don't have a minimum device limit/contract cost of something like 5 devices or $300/year. I'm guessing this type of policy would hardly effect more than several hundred of their customers, most of them with 7960's and similar. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of John Baker Sent: Sat 3/27/2004 4:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images [massive amounts trimmed] No, you can't use a credit card. You have to send the #$!@@$#'s a check. It's really stupid, but it's the Cisco way. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
I got a 7960 for evaluation purposes. I was planning on upgrading our phone system and wanted to see if Cisco's product was any good. Short answer: Nice phone, horrible service. Support? I called Cisco looking for support on the phones. They told me to go through a reseller, and I could find one on their website. I contacted a local reseller, listed as having the Cisco line on Cisco's website and guess what - they had no idea what I was talking about. Seems they didn't even know they were listed on Cisco's website to begin with. I tried a second reseller with similar results. I finally got ahold of someone at Cisco to sell me the support contract, but it took three weeks and a couple of follow up phone calls for them to process the paperwork and assign me a number. You'd think Cisco would have an easy sign up over the web for this stuff, but no. You've got to send them a check (Why wouldn't you take a credit card???) and answer a barrage of questions before you get the thing. I wondered why a company like Cisco would make you jump through so many hoops. I soon got my answer: one of their sales reps called within days to discuss purchasing more product. I'd be glad to talk to you about it, I told him, but we're a bit premature. I need to evaluate your phone with a current image and I'm getting nowhere with your technical support. Any chance you could speed up the process? It might help you get more business... No chance. After three weeks worth of runaround, I finally got my SIP image. Again the phone was nice, but the service wasn't. The price definitely wasn't. Oh, and let's not forget about the software license requirement and the power cube (purchased separately of course) Add all that up and you're paying alot for what you're getting. I went with the Polycom phones and never looked back. They're every bit as nice as the Cisco phones for a lot less money. John Paul Mahler wrote: I have recieved far more that my money's worth in technical calls to Cisco about my 7960 telephones. They respond immediately. They keep working until the job is done. The pull in whatever resources are neccessary. They have never failed to find and fix the problem. If you want professional, real technical support you should be willing to pay for it, or in this case part of it. Paul Mahler mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 7:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images What you and so may others on this lise seem to forget is that Cisco is a company offering bsuiness products for businesses. Businesses typically pay by check and wire transfer, especially for items such as this. If you want home-user pay-by-credit-card service, buy products from Belkin's home line and similar. Oh...what's that? None of these cheesy Stocked-at-Costco hardware companies have any VoIP phones worth a crap? Then deal with the fact that you are buying from a company who doesn't target home users, and deal with it. It costs Cisco more money than they make on the contract to offer SmartNet on a single device like this. You're lucky they don't have a minimum device limit/contract cost of something like 5 devices or $300/year. I'm guessing this type of policy would hardly effect more than several hundred of their customers, most of them with 7960's and similar. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of John Baker Sent: Sat 3/27/2004 4:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images [massive amounts trimmed] No, you can't use a credit card. You have to send the #$!@@$#'s a check. It's really stupid, but it's the Cisco way. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
They do you just need a CCO and a Smartnet contract for your phone. Ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iain Stevenson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images Welcome to the very much less than wonderful world of Cisco software support. When will those guys simply make the software downloadable straight away from their website for a modest fee? Iain --On Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:43 am -0600 Mitchell S. Sharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just received my first Cisco 7960 today and was looking forward to playing with it this weekend, however I can't seem to get it working via skinny (can't find any information via the wiki regarding what needs to be on the tftp server for skinny). I would like to get my hands on the SIP images to play with it. I know I have to get a support contract through Cisco to get download access via their site which you can bet I'm going to do Monday morning, but I was hoping to work with it this weekend while I have the time. I found the release 4.4 SIP image, but it won't take due to a bug that was evidently fixed around v3.? (4k tftp buffer, and the new image is larger). At least I have a really expensive pretty phone sitting on my desk now! :-) Mitch Sharp ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
John, I completely agree with you. I had the exact same problem you did just 2 years ago. It was our first time dealing with Cisco and I was so disappointed with their service and attitude. I guess as size and fame goes up for a company, service and friendliness goes down. May be some PHD should do a thesis on that. By the time the Polycom phones were available, we completely jumped on them!!! David - Original Message - From: John Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images I got a 7960 for evaluation purposes. I was planning on upgrading our phone system and wanted to see if Cisco's product was any good. Short answer: Nice phone, horrible service. Support? I called Cisco looking for support on the phones. They told me to go through a reseller, and I could find one on their website. I contacted a local reseller, listed as having the Cisco line on Cisco's website and guess what - they had no idea what I was talking about. Seems they didn't even know they were listed on Cisco's website to begin with. I tried a second reseller with similar results. I finally got ahold of someone at Cisco to sell me the support contract, but it took three weeks and a couple of follow up phone calls for them to process the paperwork and assign me a number. You'd think Cisco would have an easy sign up over the web for this stuff, but no. You've got to send them a check (Why wouldn't you take a credit card???) and answer a barrage of questions before you get the thing. I wondered why a company like Cisco would make you jump through so many hoops. I soon got my answer: one of their sales reps called within days to discuss purchasing more product. I'd be glad to talk to you about it, I told him, but we're a bit premature. I need to evaluate your phone with a current image and I'm getting nowhere with your technical support. Any chance you could speed up the process? It might help you get more business... No chance. After three weeks worth of runaround, I finally got my SIP image. Again the phone was nice, but the service wasn't. The price definitely wasn't. Oh, and let's not forget about the software license requirement and the power cube (purchased separately of course) Add all that up and you're paying alot for what you're getting. I went with the Polycom phones and never looked back. They're every bit as nice as the Cisco phones for a lot less money. John Paul Mahler wrote: I have recieved far more that my money's worth in technical calls to Cisco about my 7960 telephones. They respond immediately. They keep working until the job is done. The pull in whatever resources are neccessary. They have never failed to find and fix the problem. If you want professional, real technical support you should be willing to pay for it, or in this case part of it. Paul Mahler mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 7:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images What you and so may others on this lise seem to forget is that Cisco is a company offering bsuiness products for businesses. Businesses typically pay by check and wire transfer, especially for items such as this. If you want home-user pay-by-credit-card service, buy products from Belkin's home line and similar. Oh...what's that? None of these cheesy Stocked-at-Costco hardware companies have any VoIP phones worth a crap? Then deal with the fact that you are buying from a company who doesn't target home users, and deal with it. It costs Cisco more money than they make on the contract to offer SmartNet on a single device like this. You're lucky they don't have a minimum device limit/contract cost of something like 5 devices or $300/year. I'm guessing this type of policy would hardly effect more than several hundred of their customers, most of them with 7960's and similar. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of John Baker Sent: Sat 3/27/2004 4:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images [massive amounts trimmed] No, you can't use a credit card. You have to send the #$!@@$#'s a check. It's really stupid, but it's the Cisco way. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
I think John's said it all - I have absolutely nothing to add! I'm just posting to second his opinion. Terence On 29 Mar 04, at 3:22 AM, John Baker wrote: -- snip -- I finally got ahold of someone at Cisco to sell me the support contract, but it took three weeks and a couple of follow up phone calls for them to process the paperwork and assign me a number. You'd think Cisco would have an easy sign up over the web for this stuff, but no. You've got to send them a check (Why wouldn't you take a credit card???) and answer a barrage of questions before you get the thing. I wondered why a company like Cisco would make you jump through so many hoops. I soon got my answer: one of their sales reps called within days to discuss purchasing more product. I'd be glad to talk to you about it, I told him, but we're a bit premature. I need to evaluate your phone with a current image and I'm getting nowhere with your technical support. Any chance you could speed up the process? It might help you get more business... No chance. After three weeks worth of runaround, I finally got my SIP image. Again the phone was nice, but the service wasn't. The price definitely wasn't. Oh, and let's not forget about the software license requirement and the power cube (purchased separately of course) Add all that up and you're paying alot for what you're getting. I went with the Polycom phones and never looked back. They're every bit as nice as the Cisco phones for a lot less money. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
I had a completely different experience. The day I decided I wanted to get a contract, I called Cisco, gave them my personal credit card, and three hours later had my CCO access upgraded. I just bought a smartnet for one phone for two years (a whopping $16), there was nothing to it. I've never been contacted by a sales rep (as a result of this purchase). I had an issue with the firmware not functioning properly - inside of two weeks, they had released a new firmware version resolving that problem and a few others. I'm not sure why the experiences would have been so different, but they are. Steve On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Terence Parker wrote: I think John's said it all - I have absolutely nothing to add! I'm just posting to second his opinion. Terence On 29 Mar 04, at 3:22 AM, John Baker wrote: -- snip -- I finally got ahold of someone at Cisco to sell me the support contract, but it took three weeks and a couple of follow up phone calls for them to process the paperwork and assign me a number. You'd think Cisco would have an easy sign up over the web for this stuff, but no. You've got to send them a check (Why wouldn't you take a credit card???) and answer a barrage of questions before you get the thing. I wondered why a company like Cisco would make you jump through so many hoops. I soon got my answer: one of their sales reps called within days to discuss purchasing more product. I'd be glad to talk to you about it, I told him, but we're a bit premature. I need to evaluate your phone with a current image and I'm getting nowhere with your technical support. Any chance you could speed up the process? It might help you get more business... No chance. After three weeks worth of runaround, I finally got my SIP image. Again the phone was nice, but the service wasn't. The price definitely wasn't. Oh, and let's not forget about the software license requirement and the power cube (purchased separately of course) Add all that up and you're paying alot for what you're getting. I went with the Polycom phones and never looked back. They're every bit as nice as the Cisco phones for a lot less money. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Steve Creel[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
Welcome to the very much less than wonderful world of Cisco software support. When will those guys simply make the software downloadable straight away from their website for a modest fee? Iain --On Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:43 am -0600 Mitchell S. Sharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just received my first Cisco 7960 today and was looking forward to playing with it this weekend, however I can't seem to get it working via skinny (can't find any information via the wiki regarding what needs to be on the tftp server for skinny). I would like to get my hands on the SIP images to play with it. I know I have to get a support contract through Cisco to get download access via their site which you can bet I'm going to do Monday morning, but I was hoping to work with it this weekend while I have the time. I found the release 4.4 SIP image, but it won't take due to a bug that was evidently fixed around v3.? (4k tftp buffer, and the new image is larger). At least I have a really expensive pretty phone sitting on my desk now! :-) Mitch Sharp ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
If you pay 8 USD for 1 year support you can download the image :) Best regards, Chris HARIGA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iain Stevenson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images Welcome to the very much less than wonderful world of Cisco software support. When will those guys simply make the software downloadable straight away from their website for a modest fee? Iain --On Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:43 am -0600 Mitchell S. Sharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just received my first Cisco 7960 today and was looking forward to playing with it this weekend, however I can't seem to get it working via skinny (can't find any information via the wiki regarding what needs to be on the tftp server for skinny). I would like to get my hands on the SIP images to play with it. I know I have to get a support contract through Cisco to get download access via their site which you can bet I'm going to do Monday morning, but I was hoping to work with it this weekend while I have the time. I found the release 4.4 SIP image, but it won't take due to a bug that was evidently fixed around v3.? (4k tftp buffer, and the new image is larger). At least I have a really expensive pretty phone sitting on my desk now! :-) Mitch Sharp ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
.. not sure this applies outside the US - or I'd reach for the credit card. Iain --On Friday, March 26, 2004 11:29 am -0500 Chris HARIGA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you pay 8 USD for 1 year support you can download the image :) Best regards, Chris HARIGA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iain Stevenson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images Welcome to the very much less than wonderful world of Cisco software support. When will those guys simply make the software downloadable straight away from their website for a modest fee? Iain --On Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:43 am -0600 Mitchell S. Sharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just received my first Cisco 7960 today and was looking forward to playing with it this weekend, however I can't seem to get it working via skinny (can't find any information via the wiki regarding what needs to be on the tftp server for skinny). I would like to get my hands on the SIP images to play with it. I know I have to get a support contract through Cisco to get download access via their site which you can bet I'm going to do Monday morning, but I was hoping to work with it this weekend while I have the time. I found the release 4.4 SIP image, but it won't take due to a bug that was evidently fixed around v3.? (4k tftp buffer, and the new image is larger). At least I have a really expensive pretty phone sitting on my desk now! :-) Mitch Sharp ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
Iain Stevenson wrote: .. not sure this applies outside the US - or I'd reach for the credit card. Iain --On Friday, March 26, 2004 11:29 am -0500 Chris HARIGA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you pay 8 USD for 1 year support you can download the image :) Best regards, Chris HARIGA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iain Stevenson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images Welcome to the very much less than wonderful world of Cisco software support. When will those guys simply make the software downloadable straight away from their website for a modest fee? Iain --On Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:43 am -0600 Mitchell S. Sharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just received my first Cisco 7960 today and was looking forward to playing with it this weekend, however I can't seem to get it working via skinny (can't find any information via the wiki regarding what needs to be on the tftp server for skinny). I would like to get my hands on the SIP images to play with it. I know I have to get a support contract through Cisco to get download access via their site which you can bet I'm going to do Monday morning, but I was hoping to work with it this weekend while I have the time. I found the release 4.4 SIP image, but it won't take due to a bug that was evidently fixed around v3.? (4k tftp buffer, and the new image is larger). At least I have a really expensive pretty phone sitting on my desk now! :-) Mitch Sharp ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users No, you can't use a credit card. You have to send the #$!@@$#'s a check. It's really stupid, but it's the Cisco way. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
Iain Stevenson wrote: .. not sure this applies outside the US - or I'd reach for the credit card. Iain --On Friday, March 26, 2004 11:29 am -0500 Chris HARIGA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you pay 8 USD for 1 year support you can download the image :) Best regards, Chris HARIGA No, you can't use a credit card. You have to send the #$!@@$#'s a check. It's really stupid, but it's the Cisco way. John Or purchase a Smartnet from your local Cisco reseller. -- Scanned for viruses and dangerous content at http://www.oneunified.net and is believed to be clean. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
--On Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:52 pm -0500 Ray Burkholder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Iain Stevenson wrote: .. not sure this applies outside the US - or I'd reach for the credit card. Iain --On Friday, March 26, 2004 11:29 am -0500 Chris HARIGA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you pay 8 USD for 1 year support you can download the image :) Best regards, Chris HARIGA No, you can't use a credit card. You have to send the #$!@@$#'s a check. It's really stupid, but it's the Cisco way. John Or purchase a Smartnet from your local Cisco reseller. Unfortunately I haven't found any reseller offering cheap (or Smartnet) contracts in the UK. There always seems to be a steep premium. Iain ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images
What you and so may others on this lise seem to forget is that Cisco is a company offering bsuiness products for businesses. Businesses typically pay by check and wire transfer, especially for items such as this. If you want home-user pay-by-credit-card service, buy products from Belkin's home line and similar. Oh...what's that? None of these cheesy Stocked-at-Costco hardware companies have any VoIP phones worth a crap? Then deal with the fact that you are buying from a company who doesn't target home users, and deal with it. It costs Cisco more money than they make on the contract to offer SmartNet on a single device like this. You're lucky they don't have a minimum device limit/contract cost of something like 5 devices or $300/year. I'm guessing this type of policy would hardly effect more than several hundred of their customers, most of them with 7960's and similar. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of John Baker Sent: Sat 3/27/2004 4:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Cisco 7960 SIP Images [massive amounts trimmed] No, you can't use a credit card. You have to send the #$!@@$#'s a check. It's really stupid, but it's the Cisco way. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users winmail.dat
