Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-04-01
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Hektor via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators When I listened to the recording, I had problems with the part where 5 , 4, and 3 notes were played simultaneously. However, if the pitches of the notes were further apart or they were different sounds, I might be able to tell them apart more easily. Also, in the recording, all the notes had the same origin point/came from the same direction. If they each came from a different origin point/direction, it might be easier to seperate the sounds. For example, I might have trouble identifying the notes C, G, and A if all played in front of me. However, if the C was played in the left speaker, A in the right speaker, and G in the center, I might be able to identify the tones better. I also talked with some friends who are involved in music. They said they think the rule of fourths may actually be called the circle of fifths. One comment they made that might be helpful is that differentiating musical notes can take some training depending on the notes. For example, most people can easily differentiate between a low C, C, and high C note. But they may have more difficulty telling the difference between a B, C, and C#. Differentiating at that level may require some training. Most people probably find it easier to differentiate between types of sounds than pitches of musical notes. Also, there are different types of note identification. Does someone need to identify a specific note or that notes relationship to other notes? Play a E note and most people can't identify that it is an E. But if you play 2 notes, most people can recognizewhether one note is higher or lower than the other--though the closer in pitch the sounds are, the more difficulty they might have with that task.So, if you want to use 5 notes, you might need to use notes that are a bit further apart. However, if the sounds of the notes are coming from different directions, the differences in the pitch of notes may not need to be as much. Another potential idea is to use a combinat ion of sound types and pitches. For example, the A button is a low quick chime, the B button is a high quick chime, the X button is a low quick beep, and the Y is a high quick beep. The fifth button could be a different sound type or perhaps one of the 2 previous sound types played in a mid range. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304998#p304998 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-31
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Sightless Kombat via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators @37Even then 3d audio's very much going to be tricky to do right given cross platform implementations and the ability of headsets etc to render it correctly. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304788#p304788 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-30
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators I'm kinda lost here because its a very complex game that's fast paced and while I think we do need audio implementation, of some sort, it can get overwhelming if not done right. You keep saying surround sound in your posts, but I think you mean 3D audio, I don't know many people with an actual 5.1 or better surround sound system in their house, most would be playing over The speakers, a stereo system, or headphones.One other thing is that if this is done, you'll get a lot of people interested because its new, and they don't know anything about football. I do, but not the in depth stuff TTS to read the plays as you move around then, an indicator for if you flip the play, etc. is definitely needed. What's also needed is a description of each play, to be studied outside the game since we cannot use the diagram on screen. Also since each screen I think comes up with 3 or 6 plays, and you press the square, X circle and triangle buttons to select the m, well we need some indication of that as well. My knowledge is a bit out of date, the last Madden game I played was Madden 14.Also, what would be done about a receiver who was open, but is now covered by a defender. I think the tone for his button shouldn't just go away, but should be occluded and fade out as he becomes less able to catch a pass. Also some more mundane things. A way to see how much time is on the clock, to see if the clock is still running or stopped, maybe an audible indicator that ticks that last 10 seconds of the play clock. Here's this too, how would you know where you can take the ball if running it. Yeah you can hear the other players around you, but I don't know if its good enough to tell if there's a hole you can sneak through. Also sort of a blip when you're being pursued if you're running the ball and you get out ahead of the defense, you're being chased down, you need to keep running, etc. The more rapidly the b lips come, that lets you know you're in trouble, if they start to slacken off, it means you're gaining ground on them. Also perhaps some kind of indication when you pass the chains and score a first down. Not that that means you should stop, but just lets you know whats going on around you.I am partially sighted, getting worse but I used to play pretty well in Madden 08, that's the one I'm more familiar with so I'm sure things have changed a lot since then. There's just so many visual elements on the screen that I don't begin to know how to represent them all, or what of it can be ignored. For instance, when you're in the huddle and on offensive, about to snap the ball, you don't need to know where all the defenders on the screen are at that point, after play begins though, you're gonna need to know who your nearest threat is if that makes sense. I don't think you can represent all of them on screen at once with little bl ips and stuff, thankfully, audio is getting a lot better, so we'll probably be able to tell because of their footsteps, but again, we need to know where we can get through.On defense, we're gonna probably need to know where the ball carrier is at all times as well as where we'er meant to go once play begins. If we're running after the ball carrier, again we need an indicator but this time we want to hear those faster beeps, that lets us know we're in range to go for a tackle. As the QB when throwing a pass, I think we need some sort of indicator of our distance from the line of scrimmage, that way we know we can drop back some if pressured by the D. This won't exactly tell us how far we are away from our intended receiver, but since that can change, I think knowing how far we are from the line is a good compromise.Also, if running the ball, the announcer will usually call out yardage, so that doesn't really need anything done, but wha t does is knowing where we are on the field laterally so we don't go out of bounds, I think a sound that say is silent in the middle, and only starts to get loud as you approach the out of bounds line on either side might do the job. I think a yardage given at the end of play would be nice, like on X's 30 yard line or whatever so that you have the information you need to make smart decisions.Also a way to be able to kick the ball accessibly if going for a field goal, or if the other side is receiving during kickoff, or the extra point. I don't know how the newer mechanics work, I remember the way it worked in Madden 08 though, but that's probably not much help now. But yeah an indicator how strong the wind is, and something for left/right and up/down. An indication where the goal posts are in relation to the kicker as well where appropriate. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304713#p304713 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-30
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ea_accessible via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators @Hektor - yes, 1 indicator appears above each player when they are first open to catch the ball. Up to 5 players can be catchers. I was thinking about using surround sound to identify where each catcher is on the field. I have a hard time telling how far apart notes have to be to be distinguished, as I'm severely hearing impaired and can't hear all notes - input on this would be very welcome. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304705#p304705 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-30
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ea_accessible via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators @Hektor - yes, 1 indicator appears above each player when they are first open to catch the ball. Up to 5 players can be catchers. I was thinking about using surround sound to identify where each catcher is on the field. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304705#p304705 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators Hi.Here is an idea which might work if there is a learn sounds menu option or some practice thing where people can learn how it works:The layout is taken from a ps4 controller, but it does also work on other controllers:X, Circle, Triangle and square have the same sound. Square and circle is played from the left and the right speaker, so square comes to the left and circle comes to the right. Triangle and x are played in the middle, where triangle have a high pitch and x have a low pitch.L1, L2, R1 and R2 have an other sound. L1 and R1 have the sound in high pitch where the sound is coming from the left or right. L2 and R2 use the same sound with lower pitch.The left and right analog sticks have two different sounds because they can move in all directions. If you need to move one of those sticks left, right or forward, the sound is coming from the left, right or middle. Maybe high pitch for the middle. If you need to move it backwards the lower pitch sound is played. Not all people have surround sound.I have never done QTE's where I have to press L3 and R3, but they could have an other sound where it comes from the left or right.The DPad, well, I think you got the point. The same as the analog sticks just with a different sound if it makes any difference if you're using the DPad instead the left analog stick.The touchpad, well, I don't have any ideas for this yet. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304605#p304605 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-29
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Hektor via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators I think I need some additional clarification. there are 5 possible indicators. Am I correct in understanding that only 1 indicator will appear over the head of 1 player, but multiple players could be available to receive a pass so multiple indicators could be present at the same time? Also, another part of this idea would be to play the indicators in such a way that would indicate whether the pass receiver was left, in front of, or right of the passer? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304565#p304565 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-29
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ea_accessible via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators The problem I'm currently trying to solve is game agnostic. 1-5 button icons appear on the screen, in any order, usually within several seconds of each other. The question is, how can I communicate this scenario to the user? The midi file is an attempt to explore differentiating between 1 to 5 tones - the catch being that I'm physically incapable of hearing many tones, so I can only assume the file is correct - unless someone tells me otherwise. I'm totally open to other ways of mocking this up, but I don't have the resources to prototype an actual game right now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304551#p304551 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-29
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Sightless Kombat via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators @31Just wanted to clarify that the only reason I haven't responded really is that I have no idea how the game works and so cannot even begin to figure out how to fit a workable set of options in for things like stick movement etc for accessibility, even if these might translate into other games.If something like Mass Effect had been mentioned, that might've possibly been easier, though I can't be sure.Not to say that your work is not commendable, that it very much is. Just apologising for a lack of contributions and looking forward to being able to help with games that I actually know something about, not being anywhere near a culture that holds a devout following for American Football or any kind of following at all for that matter.I continue to wish you luck in recruiting individuals to try and solve this problem and will help as and when I can with other games as they come up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304537#p304537 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-29
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ea_accessible via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators @karate25 I will be asking for feedback for other games too, but first I'm trying to figure out how to make a business case for a single game. I picked Madden as I know it already has a blind audience & I know the game very well, but I will be covering others once I figure out how to make a plan for Madden. Plans are the first step to making a case for support. I can't promise anything other than I will sincerely try. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304515#p304515 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-29
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : karate25 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators hello everyone, I'm totally shooting in the dark here, and if this is off topic say so, but if this is ea games, I think, if memory serves me properly is the same company that has the sims series of games. I would personally love to see this series made to be playable for the blind. One thing you could do is since you had to click on a sim's head to center him or her on the screen, you could have the individual sim have a name tag on them that the tts could read. The same with the different furniture and household items in the different menus. Again, I'm just thinking out loud here, and if I'm way too off, let me know but this is all very exciting all the same and I know we've got to take baby steps and we didn't get to the point we're at right now over night either. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304491#p304491 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-28
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ea_accessible via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators I found an online midi site, to test the notes proposed. In order seemed to close together, so I tried that, then every other one. There are 5 single notes, then 5,4,3,2,1 notes, then 5 single notes, then 1 2 3 4 5 notes. At least, in theory. I can't hear all the notes, but they are probably all there... please let me know if they are there or not. https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq3RqP692JkyhCyoHa4sS3WXzVAw URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304456#p304456 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-28
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ea_accessible via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators I found an online midi site, to test the notes proposed. In order seemed to close together, so I tried that, then every other one. There are 5 single notes, then 5,4,3,2,1 notes, then 5 single notes, then 1 2 3 4 5 notes. At least, in theory. I can't hear all the notes, but they are probably all there... please let me know if they are there or not. I can't figure out a hotkey, but clicking anywhere around the middle of the screen will start it playing - the margins around the control are around 10% of the screen, all the way around. If this doesn't work out, I'll find another site.https://onlinesequencer.net/442499 URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304456#p304456 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-28
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ea_accessible via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators I found an online midi site, to test the notes proposed. In order seemed to close together, so I tried that, then every other one. There are 5 single notes, then 5,4,3,2,1 notes, then 5 single notes, then 1 2 3 4 5 notes. At least, in theory. I can't hear all the notes, but they are probably all there... please let me know if they are there or not. I can't figure out a hotkey, but clicking anywhere around the middle of the screen will start it playing - the margins around the control are around 10% of the screen, all the way around.https://onlinesequencer.net/442499 URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304456#p304456 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-28
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ea_accessible via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators I found an online midi site, to test the notes proposed. In order seemed to close together, so I tried that, then every other one. There are 5 single notes, then 5,4,3,2,1 notes, then 5 single notes, then 1 2 3 4 5 notes. At least, in theory. I can't hear all the notes, but they are probably all there... please let me know if they are there or not.https://onlinesequencer.net/442499 URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304456#p304456 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-28
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Hektor via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators One thing to keep in mind is that accessibility is a journey. There are problems that won't seem solvable today, but which will become solvable as people develop more experience with solving these types of problems. Some solutions will work fantastic the first time. Other solutions will be replaced with better ones over time. And yet other solutions will turn out to be dead ends and we'll stop using them. I think it is wise to start looking for common solutions that can be used across games. However, it is probably better to focus on solving specific problems, build some experience, and then look for commonalities between solutions. The problem @ea_accessible poses at the beginning of this thread is a good place to start. it is a very specific problem--and specific problems are much easier to solve than generalized problems. Thanks to the later post about vibrations not having a standard approach across controllers, I think using different sounds as indicators is a good idea. I think starting off with the tone scale described is a good starting position. I will admit I am not comfortable with saying that it will absolutely work--but that is because I'm having problems picturing the implementation. There is also the question of how many simultaneous tones the player can process. One tone, no problem. two tones, seems possible. Three tones, maybe? Four tones, not sure... five tones, probably not but I don't have any facts to back that viewpoint up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304448#p304448 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-28
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : magurp244 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators I suspect each game may be best handled on a case by case basis, at least initially. Given the different perspectives, mechanics, and control schemes involved in each with the limited and challenging ways of conveying that information meaningfully.For stick controls using left/right stereo positioning with pitch for height mentioned my ianhamilton_, maybe with two separate tones for each stick may work. Sticks are more or less like a limited mouse typically combined with aim-assist and tracking to compensate, and a few of my projects have used similar mechanics. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304446#p304446 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-28
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators I can't think of a way to convey stick motions audibly without using TTS, and TTS is slow. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304379#p304379 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-28
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators "Tones for face buttons is all well and good, but we're dancing around a topic that Karen brought up in her original post, stick motions."A range of different button actions as well as stick motions, for example:- tap a button immediately when prompted- tap a button a precise time after being prompted, not too early or too late- tap a button repeatedly and quickly until prompted again- hold a button until prompted again- rotate a stick in a single circle- rotate a stick from one specific direction to another specific direction- rotate both sticks simultaneously at the same speed with the same start positions but in opposite directions, until prompted again- push both sticks apart- push a stick in a specific direction- push both sticks in the specific direction- waggle a stick from side to side- use a stick to move a reticle to a specific coordinateAnd 'buttons' can mean all the face buttons, shoulders, triggers, l3/r3So for example Asura's Wrath, Tales From The Borderlands, Shadows of Mordor, MKX and Madden (the above list of actions comes from this small selection of games) might all need quite different approaches to each other, the best approach for one won't necessarily be the best approach for another. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304354#p304354 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-28
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators "Tones for face buttons is all well and good, but we're dancing around a topic that Karen brought up in her original post, stick motions."A range of different button actions as well as stick motions, for example:- tap a button immediately when prompted- tap a button a precise time after being prompted, not too early or too late- tap a button repeatedly and quickly until prompted again- hold a button until prompted again- rotate a stick in a single circle- rotate a stick from one specific direction to another specific direction- rotate both sticks simultaneously at the same speed with the same start positions but in opposite directions, until prompted again- push both sticks apart- push a stick in a specific direction- push both sticks in the specific direction- waggle a stick from side to side- use a stick to move a reticle to a specific coordinateAnd 'buttons' can mean all the face buttons, shoulders, triggers, l3/r3So for example Asura's Wrath, Tales From The Borderlands, Shadows of Mordor, MKX and Madden (the above list of actions comes from this small selection of games) might all need quite different approaches to each other, what works for one won't necessarily work for another. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=304354#p304354 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-24
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators Yeah that might work if it can be done through headphones. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303891#p303891 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-24
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ea_accessible via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators ps4 controllers have a small and large rumble.xb1 controllers have left/right rumble.When attempting to support cross platform, both specifics are generally lost, so very few things use either.The reason I'm asking about tones is to support 1 to 5 pass icons in Madden. A button icon appears above the player's head the first instant the game considers the player open to catch. Each tone would play once, but they can be in any order, and can overlap. I was considering using surround sound to help identify which side of the field each tone originated.So this isn't really a QTE, but it helps to have a QTE discussion as a lead-in, and also because I'l like to have as many blind gaming use cases figured out as possible, for any game. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303861#p303861 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators @20 I wasn't suggesting a direction, I was suggesting the rumble motor in either the left side or the right side of the controller. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303846#p303846 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators Just a heads up, I've moved this topic into general game discussion so hopefully more people will find it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303819#p303819 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators Hi.What an interesting topic. I also think the tones would be the fastest way to hear what buttons to press.Regarding rumble, it's already used in many games where you can feel if you have done it successfully. In some of the Telltale games I have played, I have used the rumble to make sure I did it correctly.A controller can't vibrate in directions, only heavy and light vibrations, and the vibration volume. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303790#p303790 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators I think tones is the best option. TTS is unreliable on PS4, and so I wouldn't even base that in our discussions for the moment, if we're talking about cross platform.I've discussed this with Musicman several times regarding the Rock Band highway, and I think the same tone idea could work here as well. I think no matter what option is used, there *will* be some overlap.Tones for face buttons is all well and good, but we're dancing around a topic that Karen brought up in her original post, stick motions.What about the QTEs that make you use a face button and a stick motion? Double wammy overlap! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303775#p303775 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Hektor via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators This idea might work, but it is also obvious that there are some questions about it. How will this work in the context of other sounds? If tones are played simultaneously, will players be able to untangle the tones quickly enough, decipher which buttons to press, and do that quickly? Maybe? I do not know if this is an option, but this might be a situation where testing a prototype with some users might help. Perhaps something as simple as playing the sounds randomly and having the player use the corresponding contrl--while the program records information on which controls were used and how long it took before a control was used after the sound played. It might be possible to prototype that as a Windows app or maybe a web app. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303756#p303756 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators As I said about the baseball diamond, everyone finds their own way, I'm not suggesting everyone use that method. I just think TTS is too slow even if sped up. Plus, you have no way to know what people are using speed wise, someone could have it set really slow in which case triangle might take nearly a second to say, no way could you do a QTE that way. As for immersion, no way to avoid it, just get used to it because no matter what's done it will break immersion. The good thing here is you decide what breaks immersion for you, its a personal thing, a mental balance, so if you decide that little clicks aren't going to break immersion for you then they won't. A TTS engine saying square square triangle LB RB etc. is not immersion breaking? I don't know much about HRTF and how to use it but I have heard and demos of it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303726#p303726 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Sightless Kombat via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators @15 and other respondantsI'm going to play devil's advocate here.*Baseball isn't a universal sport*As much as I know what a baseball diamond is, there are people who might not only know nothing about that, but also might start in a different order. For example, I'd argue it's better like this for consistency:first=xsecond=ythird=AFourth=B*Breaking imersion*The general idea of having additional, non-immersive tones/clicks/sounds just seems really frustrating to me. If I'm playing the game either alongside or as part of a session with sighted counterparts, I want things that I'll notice but won't be saying "ooh look. This player's using accessibility features." I know that NRS games break this idea, but it's less frustrating because interactible objects can be turned off and the tones are just soft enough that you know where they are, but they don't stand out too much unless you have the music off and even then it's not that bad.*Use of HRTF*HRTF wouldn't be reliable on consoles considering the technology is tricky enough to get working on PC. From what I know, which admittedly isn't much, getting it to work on a multi-platform title would be tricky as well.*Narrator/TTS VS Audio levels*Narrator, in its current form at least, auto-ducks the audio of the game. Yes, I would like that to be tweakable, but it would automatically solve the problem of the TTS being too low in volume.The only other way I could see of not using obfiscation would be to simply call X Y A or B.Auto-QTE wouldn't be that great, I agree.I'll keep an eye on this topic but I think the only way we could give reasonable feedback would be to see a tech demo and work from that. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303659#p303659 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators I don't like the numbers idea proposed above, it makes you think outside the terms of the controller that you're playing on, Madden already has a ton of controls to get used to, and you don't need another layer of obfuscation making things harder for you. The fact of the matter is using TTS will be slower than just tones. I think tones could work given sufficient practice. My proposal is this, have a single click or short tone sound and position it using HRTF. We already know our controllers and our own way to find our way around them. I think of it as a baseball diamond where on Xbox B is first base, Y is 2nd, X is third and A is home plate. But, the fact is, each of us has found his or her own way to mentally map out the controls. So using HRTF to position the click or tone in the sound stage corresponding to its position on the diamond, I think that could work.one issue I can think of is make the click audible above the rest of the game, I think a higher p itched short tone or click could do this, but not too high or you're libal to give people headaches, maybe around 800 to 900 Hz. for shoulder buttons, you could slightly alter the tone or click, or use a rumble inn either the left or right side to indicate this. A quick impulse rumble on the left or right could be LB or L1 on XB and PS4 respectively, and one on the right could be RB and R1. A double impulse quick rumble could indicate that you are meant to press LT or RT rather than the bumpers or L1 or R1.I think a majority of people playing these games will be doing it either on headphones, if in private, or on the TV speakers if with friends or family. Knowing this, I think a headphone-centric approach would be best. I think it would be challenging to play over the TV speakers. Maybe you could have a mode where these audio cues go over the headest if is is plugged into the controller, but the rest of the audio goes to the TV. I think this is possible with PS4, n o telling about XB. I am more familiar with PS4. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303658#p303658 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : musicman via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators no no no. auto QTE is the last thing we want. we wanna play the game, not skip most of it. what's the point then? This is the reason I don't buy stuff in games to make life easier. like SF V characters. or MKX crypt. I'd rather unlock all that myself through gameplay than pay for it if given an option, which is what I'm doing. plus this is about being included, not excluded. then there's things like trophies/achievements. how would you handle that if there's a trophy that requires one to perform a button sequence? not give it to us cause we're blind and enabled accessibility options, thus game considers auto QTE option a cheat modifier? yeah, not good. haha. what I'm trying to say here is, as a blind gamer, I want to play games like everyone else, but without sight. not have it all chopped up. so no auto QTEs, slowing things down, easier bosses etc. I want to discuss the games like my sighted counterpart. "oh man! that boss fight was so difficult! Took me 3 hours!" this is the reason I love fighting games, because we're 100% included. When I did that very last street fighter IV trial a few years ago and the platinum finally popped, I felt a sense of accomplishment, because some of them were insanely difficult and required tight execution. my friends couldn't do many of them so it was fun to brag. ahaha URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303645#p303645 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : DracoSelene89 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators 1. Shenmue 1 had beeping for its QTEs on the Dreamcast aages ago so it's not a new thing at all, but that had a sting in the tail in one particular QTE. (Spoiler: You had not hit anything to pass said QTE, completely going against what you had been doing the whole game), and the less time you had in a QTE the more it beeped faste.2. Just thowing this out there but wouldn't the TTS/beeping/etc have to be overlayed over any and all music or turn down the music volume to hear the TTS? Just thinking aloud here but if I couldn't hear the TTS over the music it would sort of defeat the point of it. That being saidpatten recognition.For a music based QTE for example, have each button assigned to a chord squenece and work those sequences inOr...do what the horrifically bad Rambo rail shooter did, and give an upgrade to auto complete QTEs. Well.that's one way of getting around the issue honestly.EDIT: Just got this pointed out to m e:Why not pair up the audio with a rumble feature and give each buttom a specific rumble? That way even if the music is too loud there's a failsafe option URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303633#p303633 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : DracoSelene89 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators 1. Shenmue 1 had beeping for its QTEs on the Dreamcast aages ago so it's not a new thing at all, but that had a sting in the tail in one particular QTE. (Spoiler: You had not hit anything to pass said QTE, completely going against what you had been doing the whole game), and the less time you had in a QTE the more it beeped faste.2. Just thowing this out there but wouldn't the TTS/beeping/etc have to be overlayed over any and all music or turn down the music volume to hear the TTS? Just thinking aloud here but if I couldn't hear the TTS over the music it would sort of defeat the point of it. That being saidpatten recognition.For a music based QTE for example, have each button assigned to a chord squenece and work those sequences inOr...do what the horrifically bad Rambo rail shooter did, and give an upgrade to auto complete QTEs. Well.that's one way of getting around the issue honestly. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303633#p303633 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators Hello,This is what I will use for my game probably as I'm developing something in style of Telltale games and this is much better than something like voice telling you the name of the button you need to press. Only one difference is, I don't want to use musical tones as it can comfuse many people so to do it easier I will use two sounds in the center (lower and higher, an octave probably) to indicate A (X) and Y (triangle) and beeps playing on the left and right so... X (square) and B (triangle.) I like the idea but what do you mean by surround sound? many of us are playing with heatphones so only one option I could see is 3d audio (HRTF) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303612#p303612 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators Hello,This is what I will use for my game probably as I'm developing something in style of Telltale games and this is much better than something like voice telling you the name of the button you need to press. I like the idea but what do you mean by surround sound? many of us are playing with heatphones so only one option I could see is 3d audio (HRTF) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303612#p303612 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Sightless Kombat via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators This is an interesting discussion. I do feel though that having beeps kind of gives a sort of simon feel which I don't think is desirable if we want to integrate the game better into mainstream consciousness with accessibility in mind.A way to counter it could be to use game-centric sounds with a small tutorial, or abandoning the system of logic to just have rising cues, depending on which one it is, without the need for stereo separation.As for the topic of using a TTS as part of this, You can actually get around the issue of taking too long to say words buy utilising a numeric system as is mostly done in the fighting game community (FGC).1=square/x2=Triangle/y3=cross(x)/a4=Circle/BFor needing to press more than one button at once, a rarity in my experience, you'd theoretically just combine numbers. so if you need to press x and y working with Xbox terminology, the tts would say 12 instead of 1 and 2 simultaneousl y. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303598#p303598 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Sightless Kombat via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators This is an interesting discussion. I do feel though that having beeps kind of gives a sort of simon feel which I don't think is desirable if we want to integrate the game better into mainstream consciousness with accessibility in mind.A way to counter it could be to use game-centric sounds with a small tutorial, or abandoning the system of logic to just have rising cues, depending on which one it is, without the need for stereo separation.As for the topic of using a TTS as part of this, You can actually get around the issue of taking too long to say words buy utilising a numeric system as is mostly done in the fighting game community (FGC).1=square/x2=Triangle/y3=cross(x)/a4=Circle/BFor needing to press more than one button at once, a rarity in my experience, you'd theoretically just combine numbers. so if you need to press x and y working with Xbox terminology, the tts would say 12 instead of 1 and 2 simultaneousl y. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303598#p303598 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators I like the pitch idea using channel separation. an example would be, C and G on left channel would correspond to square x on ps4, D and A on right channel to triangle circle. shoulder buttons could be completely different tone. There are so many ways of doing this. you could map buttons to particular chords. so minor chords for left side, major right side. or number the buttons 1 through 8. I can see that working quite well. 10 if you must use R3 and L3. if joystick movements are needed, you could also have special sounds for that, or vibration patterns. I'm just thinking out loud here. any more thoughts guys? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303572#p303572 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators OK, I must provide my 2 cents here, and here they are.I agree with a bit of what everyone is saying. First, both methods of button indication are valid, but that is very dependent on the game, I think. In a game like Madden, you're not actually dealing with QTE's, you're dealing with realtime events that you must react to accordingly. For that reason, I feel that having the buttons spoken by TTS or recorded voice would be a mistake in Madden, but perfect for QTE sequences in other games.Onto the topic of pitch for this idea of button indication. The idea personally works for me, but i think another question the developers should ask is whether there are ever overlaps for the same button. If a button is used for something, then at a different time that same button is used for something else, perhaps it should play a different sound. The uniformity here would be the pitches. Each pitch is always the same for each button, but the specific types of sounds that are played at that pitch are different depending on the action. One's a beep, one's a kind of ping sound... Just a thought.Regarding the post about not necessarily being able to tell which one to press without a leadup, I feel that, especially if you are a musician, that kind of thing would come with practice, which is how anyone gets better at a game. And i think that once you have an idea of how, for instance, the plays in Madden actually work, you may have some idea of which buttons you'll be needing to press from the moment you call the play. Of course, Madden being dynamic, things could change, but I think by that point you may know how to deal with those changes.Don't get me wrong, I could be completely off. I'm not trying to assume anything, just provide ideas and my own input. I hope it helps. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303564#p303564 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
2017-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Joseph Westhouse via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators The truth is, I'm a musician, and I still wonder how well the option of using a different pitch for each button would work. It's one thing if I know that when I hear some pitch, I need to hit some button. But to be able to hear a pitch, or even multiple pitches, in a vacuum and be able to identify which pitches they are? I don't know if it's reasonable to expect people to have that good of a sense of relative pitch. Maybe it would work better than I'm assuming—and to be fair, I don't have a better option. I just know if I know D4 is the square button and G 4 is the triangle button and you play me a D4, I might know what button to press if I have a starting reference point, but if you play me the note without any lead-up, I don't know if I'd be able to know which one it is. Does that make sense? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303561#p303561 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators I think I remember someone talking about using stereo separation for left/right in conjunction with pitch for up/down, I.e. on an Xbox controller x/b being the same pitch but left/right in stereo URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303552#p303552 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators Hello folks! The musical notes seems fair in my opinion, and to avoid text to speak application it can be used as a default sequence. For example, the buttons are placed like a cross, so the higher pitch would match triangle, the lower the cross button, and so on. If necessary, other notes could be generated for the back buttons r1, r2, l1 and l2 too.Best regards, Haramir. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303545#p303545 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators Wouldn't it be confusing if the buttons were said in words, and overlap? Also, they are time sensitive, and it takes a bit to say "triangle".Mods, would it be possible to move this thread to general discussion? Ian had a good point offline that this is more of a general topic than a coding topic. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303526#p303526 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators There has been a fair bit of discussion on this here already right? From what I remember it was just a straightforward literal instruction... if a QTE tells you to press square, just say 'square', if A, say 'A'.Nice and simple to do with TTS if that's available, and saves having to learn a system. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303521#p303521 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators
Re: Identifying possible console audible indicators There has been a fair bit of discussion on this here already right? From what I remember it was just a straightforward literal instruction... if a QTE tells you to press square, just say 'square', if A, say 'A' URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303521#p303521 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
