Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I started school in a public school which had a classroom specifically for the blind students in the area in side it. We got to go home every night, and we never really interacted with the sighted kids there at first. But as I entered 3rd grade, I started to mainstream slowly into lessons with sighted peers.They increased the amount of mainstream time until the end of 4th grade, when they thought I was ready for full time mainstreaming. I then went to public school from grade 5 on. Compared to some of you guys's experiences, I had on ok time.Public school, on the other hand, was a nightmare. People were always horrible to me. But I wouldn't have changed how it went, I would've never stood for being in the school for the blind full time. I couldn't handle the way they want to control every aspect of life. I am a rebel and probably would've been kicked out anyway if I had to deal with anything close to some of the things listed above.It's really interesting to read about everybody's experiences. They make me glad I never went to one full time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=341178#p341178 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @zakc93 I'll have you know that my parents have been very good with taking care of me for almost 18 years that I've been on this planet, I'd hardly call them uninformed. Each parent razes their kid differently, there is no expected standard for how to raze a visually impaired child. As for mainstream schools, they do go out of their way to purchase technology for VI students. Sometimes, especially for my school, they make you use their technology and don't allow you to use anything else that they don't have experience with or don't like, despite weather or not you feel more comfortable using it. They also don't let me bring in my personal computer because it has to go through a process, to make sure it has the software they think you need on it. So basically, they're restrictive in terms of technology. Apparently, my school is the only school that does this. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=340974#p340974 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Nope Tjt, I think it was all about systematisation and control. It was a school for the blind so everyone had to be "blind" to fit into the same mould and anyone who deviated from that whether in behaviour or even in amount of vision had to be made to fall into line with their system. My brother coined the term "clockwork mice" for those who'd finished specialist schools, and it was unfortunately quite accurate one. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=340924#p340924 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind How strange, Dark. Do you think that they had good intentions--by attempting to discourage discussion of vision, they would be making people feel less sad for being blind? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=340852#p340852 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Funny Turtlepower, at the school for the blind I attended it was the other way around. if you had any usable vision you were made to feel guilty for having it, for example if you were playing a game with a totally blind person, often the staff would give the total person some really amazingly unfair advantage, for example I once remember myself and one other eight year old playing football against four ten year old boys and it was held to be fair because we could see, never mind the fact we were smaller and ran less far, and the blasted ball with the bell wasn't at all visible anyway . This was definitely an attitude fostered by teachers, for example if I said "I watched a tv program" I was instantly corrected to "you mean you listened to it" and talking about colours or anything else was actively discouraged, heck they even missed the "he gave us eyes to see them" verse of the old hymn all things bright and beautiful. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=340782#p340782 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Interesting observations. I had the opposite experience, where you could get away with far more at a school for the blind that wouldn't have been tolerated in any mainstream environment, never mind society at large. Many of the kids I knew who had been at the school for the blind their whole lives displayed far more social awkwardness than any of the blind kids I knew who went to a mainstream school. To bring up a rather extreme example, I once knew a guy who's autistic, and was prone to meltdowns when he didn't get his way about doing stuff that he wanted to do. He also happens to be blind. This was in the public school I attended. Well, one day, I guess things got especially bad, and the principal and another teacher tried to physically restrain him, which only made the situation worse. He ended up kicking the principal, and got suspended for a long time, just as any other kid would have. Had he done that the school for the blind, I can practically guarantee that he would have gotten away with it, unless the staff didn't like him for some reason. As I said in a previous post, some people got away with far more than they should have, just because they were either showed favoritism, or because everyone felt sorry for them. People like me, on the other hand, got in trouble for the tiniest of offenses, while others, even if they were involved in the same incident, didn't get in trouble at all.We also had a lot of people who had some usable vision at the school for the blind I attended, but what often seemed to happen was that there was a social hierarchy. If you had some vision, you were seen as cooler. In a public school, the popular kids obtained their status by following all the latest fashion trends and things like that, but in this case it was your visual accuity that got you envied. It was a really odd experience that took me a long time to get used to. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=340748#p340748 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I think that in today's world where the teachers think they're on top of everything, parents really need to advocate for their kids. Teachers are there to give suggestions, not hand down rulings as to how things need to be done. That being said, I was never at a blind school, though I was in classes in a school staffed by our intermediate unit. All through fifth grade, which was twice for me because I wasn't ready to go to middle school. At that time, i was pissed, but now I agreed that it was the right decision to hold me back. After that, I went on to middle school and from there through college, I was in mainstream classes.I don't have experience though, but what I can say is that if they're fostering dependance, that isn't the root to take. It is also not only possible, but practical for parents to do their own teaching, but I guess everyone isn't as able to do that as some. For one thing, my dad was great at it. I got sick of living with my mother after their divorce, so I moved in with my dad, he had to get up early for work and stuff like that, so I had to get myself up, get showered and dressed and out to the bus for school. How many parents these days have to drag their kids out of bed? A lot. he also taught me how to cook, and do laundry, which I did from then on. He usually made supper, but weekends and days I had off school, I got my own food. When I was in college, I knew how to do laundry already, which a lot of the people I knew up there didn't know how to do, and those were sighted individuals as well.I am also firmly against boarding schools, I see no reason, none whatsoever, except for extreme laziness, that you would ever send a child off to one of those places. When you're a kid, you're supposed to be with your family, that means coming home every night after school. So unless the child expressed an interest in it, I can't see a viable reason for forcing them to go to the boarding schools except to get them out from under foot. I see that as bad parenting. Sorry, but if you stick it in, be prepared to stick it out, meaning that being a parent is a great sacrifice, if you're not ready to see it through, don't be screwing around, or use a damn bag, or make sure she on the pill or something. Wrap that rascal! 18 years of raising a kid ain't worth that little bit of pleasure unless you wanted a kid in the first place.Also, I don't like that they think they can run every aspect of your life. I was in a camp thing for preparing for college, my oVR counselor lied to my parents at the time, and my parents forced me to go, waste of four days let me tell you. I was the only visually impaired person in the place. It was for people with learning disabilities, teaching you study techniques and stuff like that, all of which I either was already doing, or already found not to be effective for me or something like that. The dude bitched me out for buying a soda from the soda machine downstairs in the hotel lobby, saying I wasn't allowed to do that, wait wait wait.. not allowed? I was 18 at the time and it was my own money my dad gave me for that. He said if I wanted a soda, I had to come to their hospitality room and get some from there, I said fuck you buedy, I do what I want. He also tried to stop us from renting a movie, which we did anyway, because both me and my roommate were over 18, so yeah, the fact that it was a R rated movie, I mean I could understand it, a lot of the people there were still 17 and so forth, but you can't get in my face, I'm a legal adult, and if I want a movie and a damn soda, be grateful I'm not snorting lines of blow in the bathroom with a 65 year old woman who has bags under her eyes, and flaps of fat everywhere. They took us to the college, and explained the process if it was in consideration if we wanted to enroll there, or send in an app, the rules they had were completely and utterly ridiculous. Like the college was all for adults, and they had these rules that treated them like children, like you had to get at least one of your meals a day in the cafeteria, you had to be in by I think 11, etc. Like bitch, I told you already, I do, what the fuck, I... wawn! If I gotta pay bills and be responsible for my own self and shit like that, you damn right I get to do whatever I want. I also fell off the damn bed and slammed my head into the corner of the nighttable and had to get four staples in it while I was there, so yeah, not a great time.So, blind schools, yeah, not in favor. If they had like programs you could enroll in that were strictly for learning about technology, and learning how to do things, which I'm sure there are, I just never needed it. But, if there are those things, and they actually treat you like you're an adult with full mental faculties in place, then that would be alright. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=340071#p340071
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind One thing a guide dog mobility instructor once told me was that independence did not mean not asking for help, it meant knowing who, when, how and in what way to ask for help. to take a case in point, if I order something from a cafe on my own, I will always! ask to help carry hot items to my seat because I do not want to risk dousing my dog in scolding hot coffee.On the other hand, when the Rnib's answer to the problem of using a cash machine was "get your carer to do it" I pretty appalled.Unfortunately, the latter type of attitude, in which basically a blind person is always assumed to be with a sighted person getting constant assistance and it isn't necessary to learn much is one I've seen advocated by special schools over here. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=339949#p339949 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I graduated from a blind school. My experiences were that Braille was pretty heavily taught, Windows was everywhere, and that they really didn't teach much independent living skills to those who didn't really already have it. We were, in the independent living courses, told to advocate for ourselves, without much knowledge on how to do that. Now, I hear that they have Chromebooks, along with the iPad, so they're climbing on up the technical scale, but children should be taught from a young age, especially if they're totally blind, to be as independent as possible, not just starting at the high school level. That's really what you get from public schools, in most cases. Sure, you could let them baby you, but you could also learn a lot there on how to advocate, as you'll have to do for the rest of your life anyways. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=339717#p339717 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I did half of my schooling in catholic school and the other half at a school for the blind. I can say I had good and bad experiences in both.In mainstream schools I didn't really have difficulty when it came to accommodation, and I wasn't bullied very often either. Actually I was well liked by my support workers who worked with me one-on-one most of the time.The problem lies in the fact I wasn't a part of anything. I was out of the classroom 90 percent of the time, because my braille was too noisy for the rest of the kids to learn and because my workers always had to be talking to me when teaching me math on the abacus. So the other kids weren't seeing me in class. At recess they would talk to me, but it was mostly curiosity about my cane and that sort of things. It wasn't like I was included in their play all that often.Then I got a computer in grade 5, and because it was a desktop it was permanently placed in a room. So I graduated from the hallway to behind closed doors most of the time.On the family front, it wasn't like they could put me in hockey or something like my brother and sister. Sometimes they'd try to teach me life skills, but not being themselves trained to teach it and having the extra burden of fears about my future, they had absolutely zero patience -- if I didn't master the skill in one or two attempts there'd be consequences. The consequences were never severe, but they were enough to make learning hard because you were in fear knowing you had one kick at the can or else your next few days wouldn't be so great.Then I left in grade 6 to go to blind school. It was my idea, I told my mother I wanted to try it and she let me go.For the first two years I didn't like it very much. There were 3 main classes of residence, based on age and maturity level. Back then they were called Junior, Intermediate and Senior, but since then the names have changed. After Senior there was a chance you could make it into a special house where independent living training was more intense, and there were a couple of other categories like deaf blind.As I started in grade 6, I begin in the junior residence. I hated it. It was bootcamp -or prison- like. Extremely structured like some of the earlier posters described. Every moment of your day was preplanned; exactly where you went and exactly what you did. When you played, when you did homework, when you changed into your pyjamas, when you ate, when you showered, when you exercised or did sports; all these things were scheduled to the minute.Needless to say I looked forward to the weekends when I'd go home (by commercial airline!).I don't know how I got through those first two years without saying Screw this, I want to go back to mainstream school at home; but I did, and I'm glad I did.Once you moved up to the intermediate class, things were much better. There was still some structure; there were specific sporting events and other things everyone attended. but that became not so bad because being intermediate gave you the freedom to make some decisions on your own and to have some choice over how you spent your time.As well, being part of things like extracurricular sports was nice. It was far more than I'd have ever had back at home.Even if I didn't enjoy all the sports all the time, there were the ones I liked and at least it was much better than never having the chance to participate in anything.I spent ten years there. I moved up to the senior class and then got into the house after that.In the house, we learned to cook our own meals, do our own cleaning, go grocery shopping, etc. The biggest problem I see with the school is that these things should be everyday activities right from the get-go, not just at the very end of your time there if you happen to make it that far up the residence "ladder".Instead of assembling in the lunch room and being served, students should be taught -- and expected -- to pack their own lunches in residence the night before and bring them to school with them like any other kids would do.We should have been involved in preparation of meals instead of having dinner delivered to us in residence on a big trolly at 5:00 every evening.Other than that, I'd say I got more out of my education there than I would have gotten back home. When I started there in 2001, it was all braille and then it slowly transitioned to being mostly computer based. For me at least, this was a welcome change. Reading and doing school work got much faster, and bringing your homework home was now a matter of carting a USB key instead of a massive heavy bag of books. It was almost exclusively Jaws. They got a few Macs towards the end of my time there, but I never really explored anything other than Jaws until much later.To the issue of being unprepared for the real world, unfortunately there's some truth to this. For me it was mostly the fact that I knew my home for the past ten years was
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @63: My experience in mainstream schools was pretty close to yours. There were a few pupils making fun of me, but it happened quite rarely.Now that I think of it, though I wouldn't go back to that school for the blind if things had to be redone, I think the most problems I had with that school weren't due to said school being for the blind. It was the first time I had to stay over for the entire week, and at the end of the day we had two hours for homework, and we very rarely went out -which may have been different in a mainstream school, I admit it-. So all we were thinking about was studying, not much else, to the point it sometimes became almost unbearable.In that regard, I can really thank myself and one of my friend for what we made for my last year there. We asked to be allowed to form a Heavy Metal band, and we were allowed to repeat at Tuesday evening every week. I was allowed to borrow the PSRS-910 as I wanted to be the keyboardist, my friend played the drums and two other friends later joined for the other instruments. This went to the point it became my favourite moment of the week by far, as we were in this room, playing Heavy Metal like anyone else who would have wanted to, not to mension it was probably one of the least appreciated style of music in the school, to the point we wrote "rock band" instead of "heavy metal band" in the letter we sent to ask for the band to form. It was among those rare moment I could say I felt free, or more exactly, I felt like I was doing something that I wouldn't even have dreamt of when I entered this school.So in the end, though I still kind of wish I staid in minstream schools all allong, I have to say that the experience was much better than it could have been and I shouldn't regret these years as they also brought good moments. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338401#p338401 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @63: My experience in mainstream schools was pretty close to yours. There were a few pupils making fun of me, but it happened quite rarely.Now that I think of it, though I wouldn't go back to that school for the blind if things had to be redone, I think the most problems I had with that school weren't due to said school being for the blind. It was the first time I had to stay over for the entire week, and at the end of the day we had two hours for homework, and we very rarely went out -which may have been different in a mainstream school, I admit it-. So all we were thinking about was studying, not much else, to the point it sometimes became almost unbearable.In that regard, I can really thank myself and one of my friend for what we made for my last year there. We asked to be allowed to form a Heavy Metal band, and we were allowed to repeat at Tuesday evening every week. I was allowed to borrow the PSRS-910 as I wanted to be the keyboardist, my friend played the drums and two other friends later joined for the other instruments. This went to the point it became my favourite moment of the week by far, as we were in this room, playing Heavy Metal like anyone else who would have wanted to, not to mension it was probably one of the least appreciated style of music in the school, to the point we wrote "rock band" instead of "heavy metal band" in the letter we sent to ask for the band to form. It was among those rare moment I could say I felt free.So in the end, though I still kind of wish I staid in minstream schools all allong, I have to say that the experience was much better than it could have been and I shouldn't regret these years as they also brought good moments. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338401#p338401 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @63: My experience in mainstream schools was pretty close to yours. There were a few pupils making fun of me, but it happened quite rarely.Now that I think of it, though I wouldn't go back to that school for the blind if things had to be redone, I think the most problems I had with that school weren't due to said school being for the blind. It was the first time I had to stay over for the entire week, and at the end of the day we had two hours for homework, and we very rarely went out -which may have been different in a mainstream school, I admit it-. So all we were thinking about was studying, not much else, to the point it sometimes became almost unbearable.In that regard, I can really thank myself and one of my friend for what we made for my last year there. We asked to be allowed to form a Heavy Metal band, and we were allowed to repeat at Tuesday evening every week. I was allowed to borrow the PSRS-910 as I wanted to be the keyboardist, my friend played the drums and two other friends later joined for the other instruments. This went to the point it became my favourite moment of the week by far, as we were in this room, playing Heavy Metal like anyone else who would have wanted to, not to mension it was probably one of the least appreciated style of music in the school, to the point we wrote "rock band" instead of "heavy metal band" in the letter we sent to ask for the band to form. It was among those rare moment I could say I felt free.So in the end, though I still kind of wish I staid in minstream schools all allong, I have to say that the experinece was much better than it could have been and I shouldn't regret these years as they also brought good moments. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338401#p338401 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Funny you mention mobility lessons there Jeffb. I'm afraid the school for the blind I went to was rather lacking in that, mostly because everything in the environment was so stratified and pre-determined, and there was and only one way of learning it what you were taught was based on that environment. Eg you'd be told that there were three paces to a table and forced to step count, or have it patronisingly explained to you that the fourth door on the corridor was your classroom, but not given any instruction on what to do somewhere else, we didn't even get any cane training, though several students carried them anyway. Most of my own mobility occurred either through my parents, or a county council mobility officer. Indeed this might be a difference in the Uk since over here there are several different agencies responsible for mobility tuition and it's not left on the school, though of course like most agencies it depends upon how good the individual person is, though since they're working one on one and generally teaching in environments a person is either taken to to practice mobility skills or based around routes a person needs, they don't have the same issue at all as that I mentioned in the special school. Certainly those I've seen who have come from schools for the blind tended to have to learn mobility later.Same goes for daily living type stuff, indeed I always found it odd that at the age of 10 at school I was rather patronisingly being taken through exercises on how to pour liquids, and how I should always use a jug and go slowly and hold one in one hand and one in the other, where I had been getting drinks for myself at home since the age of about six.They even expected me to learn to pour breakfast serial in a proscribed way, when I couldn't stand the stuff (especially with milk on), and when I protested I was told "it is the rules" URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338331#p338331 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Funny you mention mobility lessons there Jeffb. I'm afraid the school for the blind I went to was rather lacking in that, mostly because everything in the environment was so stratified and pre-determined, and there was and only one way of learning it what you were taught was based on that environment. Eg you'd be told that there were three paces to a table and forced to step count, or have it patronisingly explained to you that the fourth door on the corridor was your classroom, but not given any instruction on what to do somewhere else, we didn't even get any cane training, though several students carried them anyway. Most of my own mobility occurred either through my parents, or a county council mobility officer. Indeed this might be a difference in the Uk since over here there are several different agencies responsible for mobility tuition and it's not left on the school, though of course like most agencies it depends upon how good the individual person is, though since they're working one on one and generally teaching in environments a person is either taken to to practice mobility skills or based around routes a person needs, they don't have the same issue at all as that I mentioned in the special school. Certainly those I've seen who have come from schools for the blind tended to have to learn mobility later.Same goes for daily living type stuff, indeed I always found it odd that at the age of 10 at school I was rather patronisingly being taken through exercises on how to pour liquids, and how I should always use a jug and go slowly and hold one in one hand and one in the other, where I had been getting drinks for myself at home since the age of about six. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338331#p338331 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind There's 1 other thing I forgot to mention about my experience as well. When I was at the summer camp, they had rules that you cannot let anyone touch your stuff no matter what. I was showing my friend QWS, and he asked me if he could try it. Of course, I said yes. A few minutes later when he left and I was in my room browsing the internet, a teacher came in. She asked me if I had been letting other kids touch my computer. When I told her I did, she brought up the rules to me again, to which I replied that it was my computer and I could do whatever I wished with it. She still would not back down.@Post63 perhaps we should discuss this on Friday?I have a theory. I think the reason why these schools are so restrictive is because they want to separate blind people from sighted people in an effort to rule them out. Think of that what you will. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338170#p338170 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I'm glad I only attended the Texas School for the Blind very infrequently. Some of these experiences are horrifying!I went through mainstream school and the experience was great! I had plenty of support in terms of Braille and other assistive technology and generally think I received the same crappy education as everyone else.The few times I went to TSBVI were mildly unpleasant. My main issue revolved around constant socialization and visual activities. I'll never forget the time we went to this video game arcade place called Gattitown. I wanted to ride on the bumper cars and they wouldn't let me. They claimed I could hit my head on something and damage the chances of recovering vision in the future. I'm not low vision, I'm utterly blind and don't expect to gain my sight for the rest of my life.Public education was the best thing that happened to me. It exposed me to the "real world". I interacted with sighted people all the time. The only thing I regret was not making too many friends. My main focus was getting the work done so I could leave. I hated school! My confidence wasn't as high as it is now and I found I stuttered much more frequently than I do now. Then again, I've found that I don't need a lot of friends to be happy. Even if I only have one or two "true friends", I'm still happy. This probably ties into my introverted personality which is for another topic. I was never bullied or made fun of. I have to wonder if it's because of my friendly, easy-going personality? School was easy for the most part. I stopped caring after 6th grade or so but forced myself to finish it.I graduated last year with Cum Laude. Being a public school, they constantly force-fed the "go to college go to college go to college!" line down my throat. I have no plans of attending a college. I'm going to receive technical training and either find a job somewhere or start my own computer repair/support business. I don't plan to follow the blind musician stereotype. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338164#p338164 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I can agree with that sentiment. I think schools for the blind encourage people to be lazy in many ways, socially and academically most of all. I also encountered a lot of kids who were much more immature than one would expect for their age group, and I'm not talking about those who actually had intellectual disabilities, although there were plenty of those around too. I honestly don't know what's worse, though. Becoming stagnant in a place where you're not encouraged to grow, or having to fight tooth and nail every single day to be not only included, but treated like a human being. That was my public school experience in a nutshell, and I have to say I have far more lasting bitterness about that than the loss of freedom, autonomy, and possible success I suffered at the school for the blind. Of course, both are quite bad in their own right, and, had I had a better public school experience in the first place, I doubt I'd even be sitting here having this conversation today. Or, at the very least, my perspective would be radically different. it's interesting to think about, that's for sure. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338118#p338118 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Sorry for the double post, but in my rant I forgot to mention that I feel my IQ is dropping bit by bit the longer I am at the school. I don't feel blind or disabled normally but there I really start to. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338022#p338022 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind yeah nock, I feel the same. When ever i'm at summer camp at the school in canada, (W Ross for those in canada), I felt like everyone did things a certain way and every other way was wrong. I felt the same about the other kids being weird... And when I rocked i'm never told to stop. God, I could never spend 10 months a year in a place like that. Also somebody I know who went there posted on his facebook something about "I wish my kallage had braille on the doorways like my old school" that just shows how much people at blind schools take braille and things for granted... Not everywhere has them and sometimes you have to express to somebody that you need them. Its also wurth noting that some people don't even think that going to public schools is possible at all. One kid asked me if I was ever going to go to the school. When I finished explaining why I never would he asked me "How do you do your work if your not at a school for the blind?" Jesus christ, people need to live in the real god damn world! Its possible to live normally with sighted people and go to school with everybody else! Why the hell on god's sort of green but heating up earth can't some people realize this? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338021#p338021 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @54 killing people never has and never will stop people doing bad things. just look at America where they still do it. more people are raped and murdered there than pretty much anywhere else in the world.while I agree with the anger and hatred people feel towards the purpitrators, I don't think just killing them solves anything. personally, I'd rather have them rot in prison for the rest of their lives. they suffer longer that way but I'm not sure we want to turn this thread in to a capital punishment argument or it will defeat the original point and plus it'll go on for ever.what does seem to be coming more and mor apparent though is the amount of bad experiences people have had with the education system in general.nasty as it is to relive and write this stuff down, I think it's giving people an insite, and possibly helping people let out pent up feelings they've had for a long time. I know in my case I found that happening while I was typing some of my posts.so I hope we can stick to the subject and not get in to the hole, let's go string 'em up thing. doesn't help anything. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338015#p338015 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Time to weigh in, I guess...I was mainstreamed all the way through... I'm glad I was. I graduated with honors in the advanced placement program class of 2006 and have never looked back. The very few times I visited the school for the blind in my neck of the woods I was shocked by how little excellence I saw coming out of it. I honestly felt like my overall self worth dropped the longer I stayed there. No, you don't cross streets like this, you do it like this. Listen, you feel those little bumps on the middle of the road? You follow those! You need this kind of cane! don't hold your lunch tray that way, hold it like this! what? Is that an argument? what kind of logic is that? You carried your brailler with you in school? We have braillers in every classroom! No, you cannot stay in your room all the time, by yourself, you need to interact with all these other blind people... You what? they're just like you; never mind that they're rocking and you're not... Never mind that they're gouging out their eyeballs and you're not... You've never heard of such a thing? Where are you from? Oh that blind guy touching you all over? He's just searching for insert random thing he lost 20 seconds ago; all of them here do it that way... Not you?All of the worst stereotypes, and much, much more... No, freaking, joke, because in a school for the blind, many of the students are going to have other issues that can't and won't easily be explained away. while you're likely to encounter this at mainstream schools you'll usually do so in self contained classes and you're aware that said classes have special needs students, so it doesn't come as a shocker when some random someone or another comes up to you and starts touching your hair or trying to talk to you in what sounds like another language, occasionally dropping in a bunch of weird noises and mannerisms you can hardly find a purpose for.I could go deeper and relate a kagillion horror stories, but I honestly don't see the point. You either love segregation of this nature or you just flat out hate it, but if your parents sent you off to one of these rather than trying to homeschool you themselves, you sincerely have my sympathy. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338007#p338007 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Time to weigh in, I guess...I was mainstreamed all the way through... I'm glad I was. I graduated with honors in the advanced placement program class of 2006 and have never looked back. The very few times I visited the school for the blind in my neck of the woods I was shocked by how little excellence I saw coming out of it. I honestly felt like my overall self worth dropped the longer I stayed there. No, you don't cross streets like this, you do it like this. Listen, you feel those little bumps on the middle of the road? You follow those! You need this kind of cane! don't hold your lunch tray that way, hold it like this! what? Is that an argument? what kind of logic is that? You carried your brailler with you in school? We have braillers in every classroom! No, you cannot stay in your room all the time, by yourself, you need to interact with all these other blind people... You what? they're just like you; never mind that they're rocking and you're not... Never mind that they're gouging out their eyeballs and you're not... You've never heard of such a thing? Where are you from? Oh that blind guy touching you all over? He's just searching for insert random thing he lost 20 seconds ago; all of them here do it that way... Not you?All of the worst stereotypes, and much, much more... No, freaking, joke, because in a school for the blind, many of the students are going to have other issues that can't and won't easily be explained away. while you're likely to encounter this at mainstream schools you'll usually do so in self contained classes and you're aware that said classes have special needs students, so it doesn't come as a shocker when some random someone or another comes up to you and starts touching your hair or trying to talk to you in what sounds like another language, occasionally dropping in a bunch of weird noises and mannerisms you can hardly find a purpose for.I could go deeper and relate a kagillion horror stories, but I honestly don't see the point. You either love segregation of this nature or you just flat out hate i, but if your parents sent you off to one of these rather than trying to homeschool you themselves, you sincerely have my sympathy. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338007#p338007 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Oh, and a big thumbs up to post 18, a great illustration of everything I wrote in my previous post. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=338008#p338008 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @50, the capital punishment is definitely a deserved punishment. If someone in your family got raped, or any of your friends got raped, wouldn't you want the death penalty applied to them? I know I certainly would!My experiences at the North Dakota School for the Blind were nowhere near as bad as they could've been, and I'm quite thankful they weren't. One thing I didn't like was how the school always taught you the homemade way of making things, and only that way, rather than the processed way. I get that homemade skills are good to have, but it's good to get a little bit of everything. I'm still connected to the school for the blind -- they and I chat via Email these days -- and every friendship I forged there is still working out nicely. But just because my particular experience was good doesn't mean I like them. I was mostly educated in the public school, and at the start of my education it was terrible. My mom tells me of incidents where, in kindergarten, they'd lock me up in this cage-like place, or the kids would bully me or find any way of excluding me. I, fortunately, have no memory of those events, something I'm quite grateful for. (I probably do have all those memories; it's just my subconscious refusing to recall them.) My first two years of K12 education -- first and second grade, I mean, and even third -- weren't good either. I didn't have anyone to help me out -- how could anyone expect me to fully know how to educate myself at such an early age? -- but I didn't have any assistive technology either. I moved to North Dakota in October of 2008. My 9 years here have been excellent. Ever since I moved here I have not only received enough assistance that I could at least learn independence, but I was also taught how to function without someone there to always help me. I learned that, while independence is important, it doesn't hurt to ask for help, and so I've never understood why some people think that asking for help is bad or something like that. I've done my bad fair share of things; hell, in eighth grade I got caught violating my schools AUP, got lectured and punished, but the punishment wasn't even close to corporal. I got what I deserved and that was that. I've had teachers I've disliked, but mostly things have been good. Now I'm in college, and things have been mostly going well here (excluding the fact that I had to drop math class this semester because the book lists for everyone were sent out later than usual, so I didn't have any time to prepare... and they wouldn't convert to Epubs, fuck amazon!). I'm happy here, and moving to ND was probably one of the best decisions my family has ever made. But my passed, both digital, non-digital and familial, do have bad spots and dark moments. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337999#p337999 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I'm glad your experience has been positive. As I said, I've heard that mainstreaming in general has come a long way since I was in school. Keep in mind that I graduated from high school nearly 10 years ago, and the last time I was in a public school was 2005. Also, that school I attended is in a rural area, and we've got racists, crackpots and Trump supporters aplenty around here. So my experience may very well not be indicatave of what a student would experience in modern times and circumstances. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337989#p337989 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I'm in public school and nobody treats me like that. It depends on the school you go to. I experienced mostly negativity in blind schools, I can't think of 1 positive thing that happened to me there. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337972#p337972 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Yeah, it is true that there are a few things that schools for the blind do well, most of which are centered around extracurriculars and sports. I said in my original post in this topic that not all of my experiences at the school I attended were negative. Well, most of the positive experiences that I had were because I was able to participate in sports, something I never in a million years could have dreamed of doing in public school. Besides, gym class was a nightmare in public school, just another excuse for everyone to point and laugh at me. Anyway, I was able to play goalball, and I ran track and was also on the swimming team. Those were oppurtunities I wouldn't take back if given a chance. I also participated in the choir, which admittedly I could have done in public school as well, but I doubt those backwards assholes would have given me the time of day if I'd tried, so I do feel like that was another oppurtunity I otherwise wouldn't have had.And, while I 100% agree with everyone who has stated that these places stunt your growth socially, I did have to say that the first true friendships I ever forged were at the school for the blind. Oh, I dealt with my fair share of backstabbers, dysfunctional blindies, and well, folks who would have been dysfunctional even with 20/20 vision, but I at least had connections there. In public school, everyone either ignored me, pretended to be my friend so that they could make fun of me later, outright bullied me, or, on the rare occasions where someone dared to be bold enough to try and befriend me, it was usually short-lived because their friends would no longer associate with them if they had anything to do with me. So I can at least say that, had I stayed in public school, I would have had some pretty severe trust issues. Not that I don't have some already, but I can practically guarantee that they would be a billion times worse. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337967#p337967 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind hi,Seriously? You bring up something that I did about 14 years ago? Do you think I'm mentally deranged or something? Or that I'm delusional? I swear that every event that I described in my previous post took place. In the case of the rape incident, I can link to articles in the turkish media, which will support my point. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337941#p337941 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind hi,I agree with you 100%. He apparently called them to the bedroom the teacher on guard stays at, and raped at least 3 children. The article is still in the turkish news. One of the children apparently went to the principal and told him about it. The principal then called the police, who sent their sexual crimes investigation unit to the school. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337938#p337938 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I really wish the death sentence was still a thing, all these blind school teachers need to be executed for this. For anyone who thinks I'm telling a bad joke, I'm actually 100% serious. They need to be executed, no questions asked. Raping blind children? Raping a person or even a child is bad enough, but raping blind children? Punching people in the face, throwing them out of windows? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337934#p337934 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @38 part of the psychological thing with those places was that they were in control. parents was another of their mind games. if you did something wrong, we'll tell your parents and they'll yell at you too kind of thing.so going home and telling your parents, the teacher told me to do this or that was unthinkable because you had it hammered in to you that they wouldn't believe you and the staff would give their own version and be believed. that kind of mentality was used by staff there for much worse things too which I won't go in to but I was fortunate enough not to have ever been a victim of that. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337361#p337361 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I'll tell you I went to public school from kindergarden through graduate school and even to get my doctorate. I did not exactly have an assistant. I had a teacher who made me come in an hour early for school and we learned Braille and stuff like that and she was from the county. I also had a mobility instructor who gave me semi-weekly lessons in mobility and navigation and she was so good I could manage the busses in my town at 5 years old. I had a person follow me around school as an assistant for about 6 minutes until my Mom called the school and got them to get rid of her. Only thing I didn't do is I actually got exempt from PE after elementary, but that is as much because I have weird shoulders that can dislocate on just a little pressure (I can't lift more than 20 pounds no matter how strong I get in terms of muscles) and have a tracheotomy.My parents also were very adamant I learn socialization and stuff and did a lot to teach me on their own part. So I never developed rocking and I always looked at people when I talked to them. Though I have, and still have an eye-pressing habit that I indulge when I know I'm alone if I'm not careful. I did everything the other kids did, I even took part in the potato gun marksmanship challenge in AP Chemistry (the teacher made four different potato guns, each running on one of the four gas laws and you got to fire once for every one you could properly remember and do calculations with. I wasn't the most accurate shot but I won anyhow because I was one of the few who knew all four laws.As for adaptive tech, I always had it, but I also learned on how to get grants and such to reduce the cost or even get it for almost nothing. Also, my state is one of the few that still has a separate department for the blind that isn't lumped in with other disabilities and even has an adult education center for the blind alone. but I've done a lot of self-advocacy, learning how to advocate for myself from my mother doing it first when I was younger and making it clear I had to do it.I never went to my state's school for the blind, but from my good mobility instructor's statements she gave to me on it, "It wasn't for the college-bound like you but it was good for kids who had bad home situations and could be a refuge for them," though she was highly critical of schools for the blind in general.As I never wound up learning to cook all that well and then my vision went from 20:400 to almost nothing very quickly, the mobility skills I used are no longer viable and I have to learn a lot of mobility skills over again now, using different techniques, so I'm having a stint in an adult education for the blind facility soon enough. I take it when my work isn't in the way instead of vacation so I can become more independent. Budget cuts mean in my state I go there or I won't get enough training and although my parents and family were big in teaching me a lot growing up, they had a lot of areas they didn't know how to teach me, so I spnd a little time each year with some who do.I'm far from helpless so I would prefer just working at my own home if I could on stuff like this, but that isn't a viable thing with the way funds for the state are, so that's what I have to do. So schools for the blind have a point to existing, but not so much anymore. I also began school in 1990 if you want a year to pin it down on.In college there is also a disability resource center, and in later stuff, I was able to get funding to help with a research assistant at times and also thanks to modern tech, most modern philosophical journals are available as digital things I can use my screenreader on.so again, the places have their uses and I have to use one now for mobility and cooking (though I'm teaching myself a lot through trial and error at home in terms of cooking and cleaning.) but I think if you can, go public in terms of education. I have a lot more going on than probably several of you and I handled a rather crappy school, and went through college just fine. Though I think it might depend on schools too. I met a bunch of people in high school who went to the Texas one and they seemed great, extremely well-educated both in terms of academia and socialization and mobility. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337354#p337354 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @Post37 and you didn't tell your parents about it? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337337#p337337 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind not at my school there wasn't. see my previous posts. I didn't get involved in the first part of that i wrote about, 2 other lads did though. as for the second, i do regret taking orders because the person in question did have problems i didn't know about. we didn't actually do anything to him though. when we turned up he lost it and lashed out. i got punched in the face and grabbed his arm. one of the others grabbed the other and we marched him to the room he should have been in.I'm not trying to justify that though, just pointing out the kind of things that went on and that were not only allowed by teachers, but actually ordered.that same poor kid was expelled not long after for smoking and sent to a school for children with extreme behavioural problems. this was the kind of thing we were threated with too. toe the line or you'll go somewhere like he went.at a guess the teachers did things like that because they knew they'd be in a lot of trouble if they used force against a pupil. so they'd just order some of the other boys to do it. only come back then is the students get in to trouble and they can deny they had any part in it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337324#p337324 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind not at my school there wasn't. see my previous posts. I didn't get involved in the first part of that i wrote about, 2 other lads did though. as for the second, i do regret taking orders because the person in question did have problems i didn't know about. we didn't actually do anything to him though. when we turned up he lost it and lashed out. i got punched in the face and grabbed his arm. one of the others grabbed the other and we marched him to the room he should have been in.I'm not trying to justify that though, just pointing out the kind of things that went on and that were not only allowed by teachers, but actually ordered.that same poor kid was expelled not long after for smoking and sent to a school for children with extreme behavioural problems. this was the kind of thing we were threated with too. toe the line or you'll go somewhere like he went. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337324#p337324 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @Post34 It is real. Nobody could make something like that up, at least not to my knowledge.@Post35 There's always a choice, when the teacher told you to do it you could have said no I'm not going to. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337317#p337317 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind [[wow]], shotgunshell. Is that Real? Seems pretty unbelievable that staff would do things like that.The school in my area has had many lawsudes against it. Apparently in the 50s staff would throw braillers at students, and in the 70s someone had burn marks on their back or something. I'm not sure what's true and what isn't, though. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337309#p337309 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @Turtlepower, couldn't agree more with your post. I also experienced some of the events you mentioned on your post in my primary school. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337303#p337303 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @24 Not having been in the situation, I have briefly shared your thought process, but I agree with post 27 in that there is a definite degree of fear. I'd also like to add though that not being in a place like that for years (gosh, one year feels like a long time, students attended these schools for a lot longer than that) eliminates the connection that you'd have with the place. Even if you hate it, you'll still likely be scared to rebel against its system. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337197#p337197 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind hard to explain but people didn't dare fight back, at least at the school I was at. most students were there from a very early age and figured that was just the way schools are. kids become very institutionalised in places like that and arguing against the rules or even wondering why they exist just doesn't cross their minds. I did get in to a lot of trouble for questioning things and weirdly, there was no physical punishment so you'd think nothing to be scared of. it was kind of drilled in to you that you were there because you needed to be and that the teachers, house staff etc were all powerful. I can remember being dragged before the head mistress on more than one ocation and shaking like a leeff although I've no idea what I was actually scared of. she was a nun by the way. how could anybody be scared of a nun? ask that to a lot of people that went to catholic schools, especially blind schools or orphanages. they can be bitter and crule but that's not for this topic really.I did eventually get really annoyed after being yelled at for something totally stupid that I don't even remember now and asked if I could see this famous book of rules they kept telling me I was breaking. they didn't have one. or if they did they sure as hell weren't going to show me it. at least prisoners get a rule book to tell them what they can and can't do rather than people in charge making them up on the spot if they're annoyed with you.another of their favourite lines was to tell you, you're lucky to be here. we look after you and help you to learn. no other school will do that for you because you're blind. I seriously did get told that many times and I believed them. at the time in the 80's they were probably rite.at this particular school as well, they had a rule that residential pupils must get changed under a dressing gown. they said it was to stop children looking at each other. interesting rule for a blind school don't you think? I think it was more to cover themselves so that staff couldn't purve at the kids which shows how much they trusted the people that worked there.anhyway, I could go on and on on this subject but I only started out to answer a question that was meant for dark so i'll shut up now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337187#p337187 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @post24 With all the bullshit you had to go through, I'm surprised you didn't fight back, and for that matter, nobody else seemed to have done so either. I would not have put up with that what so ever, they would have ended their little strict rules game pretty quick if I were there. Sounds like someone ought to clean up their act for them, same goes for the school I was at 7 years ago. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337177#p337177 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Sadly player the majority of Schools for the blind I've heard of in Britain, and at least a few of those in the states were pretty authoritarian and did cause the sort of reliance on the environment I mention, this might be different elsewhere, but I've seen too many examples of people who've come out of that system and end up damaged by it, heck, my mum still has lasting issues from time at specialist school 50 years ago. The independence teaching was also less than stellar because the specialist school was so bent on doing things one, and only one way, they even had specially constructed liquid level indicators with one bleep for the amount of milk in the cup, and another for the amount of hot water and tea, and no you didn't get a choice on how you took your tea or whether you would rather have coffee. This translated then a few years ago when I ran into someone I went to school with who was horrified at the idea of not! using a liquid level indicator.If I could also make one miner correction, actually mainstream school and taking notes on a perkins brailler is quite possible, I did it myself quite a bit, albeit the work then had to be transcribed, my mum still! prefers fast note taking in braille. All you need to do is make sure there is a thick mat or something under the brailler to stop it being too noisy. Actually, the special school I mentioned had such a rigorous way of teaching typing, I had typing lessons for two years and was literally taught two letters on the keyboard a week, had their teaching been better I could've moved to a laptop a couple of years earlier than I did which would've made a major difference in which secondary school I went to. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337085#p337085 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind That is an interesting topic. I never thought, that other schools for the blind were run in such strict ways. I guess, I can count myself lucky, that I was visiting a school for the blind, that was pretty progressive in it's ways. And I must admit, that I am glad, that I was at one of those schools. Today, things would be probably different. But in the early 90s, the technology just wasn't that well developed. Not everyone had their own Braille display. And imagine, you are sitting in a classroom with sighted people, and you have to take notes on your bulky, and very loud Braille typewriter...I think, it is ok, to be in one of those schools, at least for the first few years. Long enough for you, to learn propper reading, and how to get around with your cain propperly.Especially Darks post was, well, sort of disturbing. That really sounded more like a prison to me. In my school, they taught us to be independent. Of course there were rules. And there was enough stuff, that the staff was doing for us, simply for timely reasons. But through the years, we were taught, to do more and more stuff on our own.I guess, in the end, it all comes down to how good a school for the blind really is. You could be lucky, and get to one, were you really get prepared for your life, or you end up in one, where you lose all your independency. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337083#p337083 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @15I agree with you here. This is also a problem. From my experience, staff put forth no effort to try to teach students that they shouldn't do things like rocking. They often miss the opportunity very early on and so the student ends up developing an almost unbreakable habit. I also know several very young students from one school I attended whose parents were very transparent about the fact that they were just sending their child to the school to get rid of them. Some parents didn't know what to do with their child, so they just dropped them off at the school. Those are pretty sad situations. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337061#p337061 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind fully agree with this. I have been in so called school for the blind though I would call it the place where you learn to be a good guy and where you get everything when ever you wanted it. That's most likely why I more like being in a mainstream school. Yes, not menny of them know how to exactly to diel with blind people in the terms of speeking. For example, when the teacher asks a question, he doesn't say My name, and even if he does, there are more then one students with the same name. That's why there are some persons called assistance. they help the blind persons do there job while still not making it better for them. For example, he helps me go froo the school because menny kids run froo the coridors, etc. But, for example everyone that were in that old blind school that I was talking about earlier, they always you are all on your own and what ever, While they always say turn there and there, there is something in front of you, Well, That shurely doesn't meen that we are on our own. Although I have less in the mainstream community, that's maybe the main reason Why I stick to the net and stuf, because I don't have any real friends that are not only contact way is team talk or skype or such. Again, I fully agree with this artikle. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337053#p337053 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @17 Agreed, and this is why I'm fully against blind schools in the long term. Lumping people together who all are blind or whatever, eliminates the social diversity that people, not just those who are blind, need to properly learn how to function in society. Also, being told you're doing something abnormal should not be discouraged, as blind people especially in my opinion need those verbal queues at the start because they cannot see what their sited peers are doing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337023#p337023 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I myself have pretty much tried everything, I started off in a primary school as the only blind student, then went to a residential special school for a couple of years, then a secondary school with a Vi unit, and finally finished my a levels in another school where I was the only blind student again. I can say the specialist school experiences I had were pretty dreadful, and I am fairly sure from talking to people I had some of those experiences were universal. Not so much about the teaching or technology, but about the attitude and the way the hole school was run. Everything ran to a strict, almost Victorian time table with things like bells for brushing your teeth, you weren't even aloud your own shampoo in the shower but had to get out and have one of the staff squirt it onto your head. If you disobeyed the rules, or did something in a the system didn't allow for you tended to get some pretty extreme reactions, eg, I once got a severe yelling at for the "crime" ofopening a can of pop myself and drinking out of it, or failing to eat any part of the school meal (really this was a major deal).Contrary to what others have said, I actually felt more an outsider at special school since I'd not been in the system from the age of five and therefore others saw me as the outsider. the laugh of course, is that the people I knew at specialist school have grown up as Sir Badger said a large percentage only able to interact with people they were at school with. A more serious problem is general lack of motivation, since when you've been in an environment where everything is completely controlled by others, you don't get any experience of thinking for yourself. To take one example, I know someone who happens to enjoy driving had played Top speed when he'd seen it at some of blind get together. I asked if he'd downloaded any extra tracks and cars or checked out other racing games, or indeed other audiogames at all.he replied no in a rather dispirited manner. This wasn't because he wouldn't enjoy them, but simply because it didn't occur to him to explore anything outside the confines of what he'd been shown to be available. Likewise, he'd done computer science at university (because that's what blind people usually do), but had absolutely no interest in the subject and didn't even know what a programming language was.This is to me the main issue of special school, the environment is so profoundly artificial, that it encourages far too much reliance upon that environment and discourages a person to think for themselves or act outside familiar box. Now of course this isn't to say universally sticking people in any old mainstream school will work either, since that depends heavily on the school, the support and technology available etc etc which can vary hugely, but simply on the basis of an artificially created environment vs tteaching someone to function in an environment along side sighted people I'd always advise the latter, plus of course, how the hell are sighted kids going to actually grow up to see blind people as actually the same if they never meet any vi kids?Btw, in ~Britain these days Special schools are being phased out pretty much, mostly because they're expensive to run and send kids to. The school where I went is now closed. This is certainly good in the case of visually impared kids, though with other disabilities the question might be a different one. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=337010#p337010 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind There's this "Don't criticize anything a disabled person does unless it's just that disruptive" attitude among certain segments of the population, in these parts at least. That's not how people learn socialization. If you think it through, the implications are pretty nasty, but somehow I doubt these people think it through. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336966#p336966 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind good point there in reply 15. most of the kids I was at school with rocked, poked, or sometimes did both at the same time. we were actually told off by members of staff for telling them that they shouldn't do that because that's just not what people do. they didn't teach about social interaction either.I used to get frustrated when I was talking to a group of people because I'd get ignored all the time. I often put it down to them being nasty. turned out it was because I was never taught to look in their direction when I was talking and so they just figured I wasn't talking or was talking to the table or something. who knows. but sighted people expect you to look at them even if you can't see them or what you say just gets ignored.another thing that comes with those schools is lack of friends. sure, you'll probably have lots of them at your school, but at home, you won't because none of the other kids know you. you don't go to school with them. why should they play with you etc. and that carries on after you leeve. by the time people leeve school they have usually made a circle of friends who will come and go and change as the years go on. but when you leeve a blind school, you have pretty much nobody and it takes a lot of confidence to get out there and find people who you can get on with. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336944#p336944 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Well I would have to disagree with you on the freedom part. I my self went to a blind school, wile I hated it with a passion I finely got out of there and did better in public school. We didn't really have freedom. We weren't free to go ware we wanted and we had are entire day structured and planned out for us. I think the school didn't properly prepare the students for the real world. Oh and other blind people can tell if you were in a blind school your entire life. I didn't start going to that school until 2005 and I left in 2012. I feel that the blind school didn't have as much to do after school as public schools did. Oh and also this school was in Indianapolis if that gives anyone a hint. Wile I did have my share of girlfriends at the school it was generally split among the students. Those who were high functioning prefer to hang with those like them, wile the special education kids stuck to them selves. Oh and if you weren't in the popular group then you were lumped in with the special education students by the rest of the student body. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336931#p336931 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @1:Here's my opinion on the matter. I would not go so far as to disagree with the idea of Blind Schools 100%, because I feel they have their uses. For example: a student who just recently lost the vision they were used to utilizing all their life thus far could definitely benefit from a blind school, as the ready made accessible environment would be more conducive for learning and less stressful on them. On the other hand, I completely disagree with parents sending their children to blind schools year round for more than, say, two years. I see it as institutionalization, nothing more. While being in a blind school can help, if you're in one for too long you begin to expect the braille on all the doors, your accessible technology, the tactile queues for navigation everywhere you go, etc. Not to mention that blind people... tend to perform social actions that are considered peculiar to the sighted such as rocking back and forth. My family jokingly calls these blindisms. Anyway, no one ever teaches you that these blindisms are not really socially acceptable, if anything you end up fitting in with people there if you do them.Bottom line, I think blind schools are good for those who absolutely need them, but not as a long term solution for one's school career. They are just an institution, a shelter for the real world, and, if I'm being frank, sometimes I think a way for parents to not have to take care of their blind child. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336928#p336928 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I myself had an entirely different experience. When I went to the Governor Morhead school for the blind back in 2010, things seemed OK but needless to say it got ruff while I was there. It wasn't just 1 thing, but it was a series of things. I'll probably right an article up on my website about it, because it's way to long to go into detail on in this post. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336921#p336921 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind In truth, the quality of specialized vs mainstream education has varied with time and location. In the US, laws changed at some point in the 1970s-80s, which made it more possible for blind students to attend public schools, but in practice, this was often folded into special education in general, and a lot of specialist schools declined due to loss of resources. I get the impression that this, more than the technical problems, has a lot to do with the decline in braille literacy: public schools needed either a specialist, or a special ed teacher who happened to know how to teach braille, so it turned into an only-if-absolutely-necessary thing. I've heard from older people who attended specialist schools before the transition, and what I've heard is that they were better back then, also. The biggest complaint I heard was that the particular school they were talking about didn't enforce braille use enough on partially-sighted students, many of whom have progressive eye conditions, so by the time they really need it, they're on their own.And we have a form of selection bias, in that people who discuss this sort of thing are going to have both reason and means to do so. For example, if all of your information comes from people talking about their experiences online, you're already filtering for people who talk about education online, which excludes the technically illiterate, people who just don't care for online interaction, and people who don't care strongly enough to mention it. I mean, it seems like most people who participate in these discussions around here know braille pretty well, even when the discussion inevitably brings up the awful state of braille education. You have to be sufficiently literate to write articles about illiteracy.FWIW, I went to public school, and they were unusually accomodating, to the point that my final lesson on braille in the fifth grade was a couple years after I'd already picked up that bit during the course of reading textbooks and such. I got sent to the school for the blind one summer for acting insufficiently teenaged (I regret nothing), and was not impressed. I was one of three students in our age group who was pulled out of the normal schedule maybe 3 times for braille, which was held in a cluttered storage-closet in the basement. Maybe it was because this was the summer program, but not only was the class itself half dungeon-crawl, but finding books involved taking a lantern into a cluttered, not-especially-well-organized library, from which we wound up ultimately grabbing something random just to be done with the place. You could tell the students who attended the school during the academic year from those who didn't, based on factors I'm having a hard time explaining since everyone still had different personalities... And when I got to college, 3 blind students enrolled at the same time: me, one student who went to the school for the blind and hated it, and one who attended mainstream school but who I also met at the summer thing. This went more or less how you'd expect: the one from specialist school was bitter and wound up... I think I heard somethar about a crackhouse? The one from a mainstream background went into law and last I heard was having meetings with the state legislature, and I continued to be that weirdo who never finishes anything. There was a blind student from Italy for a semester or two, and it sounded like the system there was so accomodating that they had no idea what to do outside of it. But I don't know anything else about their background.Meanwhile, I hear a lot of stories like Gamedude's when it comes to public education, but also a lot like what Rory describes in regards to specialist schools. I get the impression that selection/availibility bias explains most of this, so I have no idea what to think.If I had to do it over, or advise someone else with suspiciously similar options to mine? I'd look for decent homeschooling options, then go with public school when those turned out to be unavailible. The main thing I took away from the school for the blind was that blind people are not that special. It's hard to explain what that means; it's not like I thought otherwise before, so much as I didn't think about it at all.TLDR: it's complicated and comes down to a roll of the dice. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336909#p336909 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind In the schools I've been to, meterial was always provided in accessible formats, teachers were always understanding and helpful, etc, etc, etc. I'm so glad I didn't end up going to the blind school in my area, as I understand that it is academically slower than what I'm used to in mainstream school. I think it depends on the area you're in. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336907#p336907 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Well I did both, I was at the end of the era, and now days the blind school is like a resource centre.You get taught the basics, then you go mainstream and tap into resources if and when you need them.For me it was in transition so often both sides got it wrong but I don't blame either side I was not outgoing as others but still.I didn't stay full time at a blind school but did courses there as part of my education.As I understand it now, you do both, mainstream classes and training for other skills and the like.About the technology thing, its just the nature of the beast.You should be offered all and then decide what you get.I do think though unless its changed, that you should try to go with the stuff you can afford, you may or may not depending on funding be able to keep your favorite tech and keep that running for you but still.University for me was a much better system.You were monitered to the extent that if you were in trouble you could ask for service, you had meetings every few monthhs, if the teachers had issues they could just call a number.If I had issues with my notes and texts and other things I or the teachers could get service.If there was a problem that would effect me such as changes to my rout as I traveled around places I was notified.I havn't had a bad system as such in uni school mainstream school was worse than the blind school mainly because the schools could take funds and resources reserved for me and use them.In the new model that exists as I understand it now, they can't there is a large education network of schools and resource centers now in new zealand and a sort of blind student union and they control everything so the mainstream schools can't touch it.I should imagine that if anyone tried anything they'd get it in the balls quite hard.Before though in the mainstream world we didn't have a voice as such and now we do.Ofcause it all depends they like to mix the mainstream and blindness educations now its not like it used to be in the 60sto 80s where it was one big blindy institution. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336894#p336894 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Hi, I think at some point this is a rushed post.I attended a special school for the blind and I’d say it was really not the best experience I’ve had throughout these fifteen years in education. The specialisation or the experience you would get there was completely primitive with many things lacking; particularly the attitude they had toward the institution they worked at. They had so deeply made up their minds that no public school in the world can treat you as well as we do, and nobody can teach you to the extent we do in this school. On the contrary though, most of the knowledge I gained throughout my education, I gained it at high school and now on to the university. The biggest problem with the attitude I wrote about some lines above is that once you foster that idea to the blind students, they will fall into a terrifying hopelessness thinking that once we leave this school, we will say good bye to education since no one will support us. Nobody will lend us a hand when we’re in need and so we will fail quickly if we go to a public school. In fact, it is completely the opposite. If you are really a good person, you will find many people that support you; that enjoy staying with you. You just need to be a good chap! And when I say a good chap, I don’t mean being rebellious, being conceited, being the bad guy that causes trouble and loves quarreling. By a good chap, I simply mean being what you naturally feel being, and not what the trends want you to be. In short, you ought to be someone who is able to give contribution of any form to your community. That when you listen to a discussion, you have the capacity to contribute to it, that when one really needs your help, you feel obliged to help, although you may not be able. I went to a public high school, with no past experience in working with blind people, and I can say those three years there will remain the best years of school in my entire process of education. I studied a lot, I hanged out with classmates a lot, and I laughed a lot as well. This was because I adopted to the way the other students lived, although with some differences as I understood that the role of education in my life was crucial and if I didn’t pay attention to it, I know I would end up at home, completely worthless to my friends and my community. But, after five years in public institutions of education, I feel I am someone wanted in society. I have friends whom I really like for what they are and how they see me in front of them. I didn’t write all this to tell that I’ve achieve something in life, but to say that the effects of special schools for the blind last on those who choose to study there. There is a problem, however, how ready are public schools to accept blind students? Do they provide them with the relevant equipment they need to study? Can the schools have the appropriate staff to work with blind students, like knowing Braille, or simply having the capacity to explain things in the way that the student is able to understand? These questions so far have not been answered with total relevance by any primary or high school. For this reason, I am a little bit hesitant when it comes to deciding whether we really need special schools or not. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336889#p336889 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Hi, I think at some point this is a rushed post.I attended a special school for the blind and I’d say it was really not the best experience I’ve had throughout these fifteen years in education. The specialisation or the experience you would get there was completely primitive with many things lacking; particularly the attitude they had toward the institution they worked at. They had so deeply made up their minds that no public school in the world can treat you as well as we do, and nobody can teach you to the extent we do in this school. On the contrary though, most of the knowledge I gained throughout my education, I gained it at high school and now on to the university. The biggest problem with the attitude I wrote about some lines above is that once you foster that idea to the blind students, they will fall into a terrifying hopelessness thinking that once we leave this school, we will say good bye to education since no one will support us. Nobody will lend us a hand when we’re in need and so we will fail quickly if we go to a public school. In fact, it is completely the opposite. If you are really a good person, you will find many people that support you; that enjoy staying with you. You just need to be a good chap! And when I say a good chap, I don’t mean being rebellious, being conceited, being the bad guy that causes trouble and loves quarreling. By a good chap, I simply mean being what you naturally feel being, and not what the trends want you to be. In short, you ought to be someone who is able to give contribution of any form to your community. That when you listen to a discussion, you have the capacity to contribute to it, that when one really needs your help, you feel obliged to help, although you may not be able. I went to a public high school, with no past experience in working with blind people, and I can say those three years there will remain the best years of school in my entire process of education. I studied a lot, I hanged out with classmates a lot, and I laughed a lot as well. This was because I adopted to the way the other students lived, although with some differences as I understood that the role of education in my life was crucial and if I didn’t pay attention to it, I know I would end up at home, completely worthless to my friends and my community. But, after five years in public institutions of education, I feel I am someone wanted in society. I have friends whom I really like for what they are and how they see me in front of them. I didn’t write all this to tell that I’ve achieve something in life, but to say that the effects of special schools for the blind last on those who choose to study there. But there is a problem; how ready are public schools to accept blind students? Do they provide them with the relevant equipment they need to study? Can the schools have the appropriate staff to work with blind students, like knowing Braille, or simply having the capacity to explain things in the way that the student is able to understand? These questions so far have not been answered with total relevance by any primary or high school. For this reason, I am a little bit hesitant when it comes to deciding whether we really need special schools or not. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336889#p336889 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind never been in a blind school myself, but from what I heard, I'm glad. sharing rooms and shit with strangers is 1 thing, but having the blind school teaching you how to do one thing, their way, stops you from a hell load of adventures, and possibilities, and methods, that you would otherwise miss out on. if I was in a blind school, probably my mobility skills would be better, possibly, my braille skills would be better. but I could list a whole load of things, that would be much worse than what they are now. I suppose what works for most, but I mostly agree with post 1. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336884#p336884 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @7Well I think that this also depends on a few factors like how old the person was, how long they'd been visually impaired, how long they'd attended the blind school, and who knows what else. I'm just suggesting that the school might not be entirely to blame. There also has to be effort put in from the student's end as well. Without that, nothing the school does can make any kind of difference. I'm not saying that the school has no fault. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336882#p336882 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @Gamedude, what I mean about not being forced to read braille is a lot of the kids I know use mainly screen readers and only know the basics of braille. At a sports camp a kid asked me to read the room number sign because he couldn't even read contractions at grade 2 level. That is not something I find acceptable, and I think the school should try and make sure kids know it and use it as its reading. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336880#p336880 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I totally disagree, even though I wasn't blind, I did have poor vision. My parents forced me to go to a mainstream school despite my complaints about problems like being assigned a seat in the back of the class room where I had zero chance of being able to see the blackboards or what was projected using an overhead projector, etc. so I ended up not being able to take notes, or participate because I often had no idea what was going on and the teachers wouldn't do anything to accommodate my disability except punish me for not taking notes I can't see and other similar non senseand my parents weren't interested enough to do anything to help. So I was constantly failing classes which my parents took to mean I wasn't studying hard enough or wasn't paying attention, or anything but the truth that with my poor vision I couldn't cope with an environment designed for people without any disabilities unless some accomodations were made.If you really feel that way, god forbid that you should have any children with special needs, they'll be in trouble from day one. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336876#p336876 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind @2I had a similar experience that forced me to attend my first blind school. I grew up in a pretty bad area with an even worse education system. Once I lost my vision at a young age, my parents (unknown to me at the time) had many different meetings where they fought back and forth with the school's administration to attempt to get them to provide me with any kind of accommodations. While this battle progressed, I met with my teacher twice a week (for half of a school year) I believe who attempted to sum up the entire day's lessons in one hour. To put it nicely, they let us know that they most certainly were not willing to accommodate me and that if we had a problem then we could go elsewhere. The story gets more interesting from there, but to make things short, that was what eventually led to my blind school experience. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336877#p336877 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind Having attended a blind school myself, I am going to address the significant points you've made in your post and offer my opinions about them:1. Almost everybody I know who goes to a school for the blind is always sheltered in one way or another and never use their cane or read braille.ON the contrary, (keep in mind that I cannot speak for all schools for the blind across the United States) using canes and reading braille is actually pretty strongly enforced at the two blind schools I've attended. One was expected to use their cane, and if you don't read braille, well there isn't a whole lot of other opportunities for you to complete assignments. Students were often lectured and told off if seen not using their canes. There wasn't much of a choice for a student whether or not they wanted to use it. Textbooks and most other reading materials were provided in braille. (along with other mediums for students with low vision) I would love to hear more about what you mean by not reading braille though. As far as students being sheltered in this kind of environment, I do agree with you. Even though the schools I went to were extremely adamant about teaching students how they would have to ask for their accommodations once leaving, there weren't a lot of opportunities for students to experience this first hand. I actually understood this concept though having attended public schools for quite a while in my younger years before losing my vision. I know quite a number of students from the schools that I've attended who probably wouldn't know what to do if materials were provided to them in an inaccessible format. I wouldn't say that this is a fault of theirs but more a fault of the school that didn't teach them how to advocate for themselves.2. Don't even get me started on the accessible technology. When you walk in a computer room, you have the option of jaws, window eyes, NVDA or voiceover. In the real world, that's not what happens.I understand the point you're making here, but to play devil's advocate, if someone were to stumble across a Mac that they needed to use in the "real world", they would be able to use Voiceover. When it comes to other assistive technology though, I think you have a strong point. The two blind schools I attended offered many different assistive technology devices to students to use while enrolled there. These included anything from portable magnifiers, to book readers, to braille displays, and many different others. I do think that students should have exposure to these devices and become somewhat familiar with what they have to offer, but students quickly and easily became reliant upon the technology. Unfortunately, once graduating from the school, students no longer have access to these devices unless they have the financial ability to obtain them. (that gets very interesting though once you start looking at devices that are thousands of dollars) I think the point here is that it would be better if students had the opportunity to work with the technology, but not to become reliant upon it.3. I do not think schools for the blind are needed in today's society.Why not? Have you ever had the experience of attending a blind school for any time? Someone who spent all of their years of education in a blind school could say that a public school experience would have been completely useless to them. It's easy to dismiss something you haven't experienced without looking at it from a different perspective. I'm really not trying to defend the blind school experience too much because I do have my issues, but I'm just saying that there's a lot of bias here.4. Also, whenever I go to events at the school near me, I actually feel blind, or feel disabled, if you know what I mean. It’s like all the staff are silently saying "Hey, your different, you belong here."Once again, students who have only been exposed to a blind school environment could say the exact same thing about the public school experience.5. I could never spend 10 months of my life locked away in a place like that.Define "locked away"6. How were you people when you came out of there after high school?In what sense? Mentally? I would say I'm doing pretty well. Emotionally? Not too many problems there that can't be solved. Normal? Point me to one person who is... (blind or not)7. I've always thought somebody who's always gone to a blind school would be screwed once they left, because they actually have to look for what they need rather than have it there always when they need it.That is the case. A lot actually. Like I explained earlier, I've always understood the concept of having to self-advocate having had the opportunity to attend a couple different school environments, so I've never had a problem like that. Don't misinterpret that and think that I am putting myself above other blind individuals who do struggle with this. I'm not doing th
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I went to a school for the blind in England and I hated it. I was lucky enough to be able to go home every night but I pittied the poor kids that were residential. you could see the effect it had on them. they had no social skills and were used to being wrapped in cotton wool the hole time so had no concept of the real world outside. a lot of them when they left went on to other colledges for the blind where they mostly went off the rails because they didn't have the support a they were used to and nobody telling them what they could and couldn't do, or when to do or not do it.as the previous poster said though, it depends on the situation. I too was in school during the 80's and early 90's when mainstream schools here just weren't geared up for blind people or people with pretty much any disability and so we didn't have much choice. the school I went to now only takes extreme cases who also have other special needs. where possible kids are mainstreamed from the get go now and I totally agree with that. I just wish I'd had the same chance. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336869#p336869 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Re: Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind I think it really depends on the school and the student. My mother attempted to put me in mainstream school when I was little, and that school didn't know what to do with me. Maybe things are different now. That was in the late 80's, early 90's. I know nothing about any other blind schools other than the one I attended, so my view is a bit biased. My school does attempt to teach students how to be independent, so when you say most students of blind schools don't do anything for themselves, that really isn't always the fault of the school. Sometimes it's the personality of the student or how the student was raised at home.Are you against deaf schools as well for similar reasons? Should deaf children also be lumped together with everyone else? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336867#p336867 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind
Why I am 100 percent against schools for the blind So I've never been to one of these. I've always gone to public school like everybody else. I've never been seen as any different. I've been bullied, sure, but who doesn't from time to time? Almost everybody I know who goes to a school for the blind is always sheltered in one way or another and never use their cane or read braille. Now somebody better tell me how that is learning independence? Those schools are supposed to teach that, but instead of inforcing safety and reading habites, they let kids do what they want? And don't even get me started on the accessible technology. When you walk in a computer room, you have the option of jaws, window eyes, NVDA or voiceover. In the real world, that's not what happens. You have to voice your needs and fight for your rights, not have everything handed to you at every given moment you need something. I do not think schools for the blind are needed in today's society, but if somebody has a different view, please share it here. I may also be wrong on some things but that's what i've heard about them. Also, when ever I go to events at the school near me, I actually feel blind, or feel disabled, if you know what I mean. Its like all the staff are silently saying "Hey, your different, you belong here." But I also feel like I don't belong there and usually by the end of the week i'm just wanting to get out. God, I could never spend 10 months of my life locked away in a place like that I'd feel imprisoned, I'd go ensane. How were you people when you came out of there after high school? I've always thought somebody who's always gone to a blind school would be screwed once they left, because they actually have to look for what they need rather than have it there always when they need it. Basically what i'm trying to say is I think there's no reason blind people shouldn't live in the real world like everybody else, why should we be sent away somewhere just because our eyes don't work? I don't even think the accademics at those schools are a the same level as regular public schools. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=336863#p336863 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
