[Aus-soaring] Standard Libelle tailplane/horizontal stabilizer
Does anyone have one of the above, or know anybody who might have one , for sale? Can you please reply to me off-list or give me a call 03 5352 4938. Thanks. Gary ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] How about this useful book!
"Normal" Deviates?? By definition Deviates aren't normal. How does the RAND Corporation define an Abnormal Deviate? What happens when a digit is really a dodget? I was interested to see that at least one reviewer at least felt that the book "should be read in its original binary." G From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Texler, Michael Sent: Tuesday, 22 September 2015 7:07 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] How about this useful book! "A Million Random Digits with 100,000 Normal Deviates" by The RAND Corporation. This is a book well worth reading, see the reviews. http://www.amazon.com/Million-Random-Digits-Normal-Deviates/product-reviews/ 0833030477/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Sporting Licences and Records - requirement to register with FAI
Hi Pam, What a shocker! I thought that all this happened automatically. Was that the case prior to October 2014? If so what was the justification for the change? I note that the FAI states that it is the NAC that issues the licence, so don't they forward the info on the FAI? How does Beryl fit into all this? What is the current chain? Regards, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of pam Sent: Tuesday, 11 August 2015 1:35 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Sporting Licences and Records - requirement to register with FAI If you are at all likely to attempt a World Record or a Continental Record, your Sporting Licence needs to be registered with the FAI PRIOR to the attempt. This rule came into effect in October 2014. If you have recently flown in the Australian Team in an International event, your sporting licence SHOULD already be registered. You can check your registration at this link: http://www.fai.org/about-fai/fai-sporting-licences If your Sporting Licence expiry date has passed, I suspect that you are automatically removed from the list - I have just emailed FAI about that because my registration has disappeared. I can arrange for this registration to be done. I would like to have a whole batch to submit at one time, so if you would like me to do this for you before the summer season ramps up, please give me the following information asap: Licence number / valid from / valid to / Air Sport Discipline / First Name / Last Name / Gender / Date of Birth / Nationality / Country of Residence / Address including Country / email address and a phone number (specify Home, office or mobile). I need all these details because they have to be entered into a form for upload to the FAI database. Quite a few people flying Australian Records find they have achieved a Continental Record or even a World Record as well, so even if your ambitions only extend to Australian Records it could be a good idea for you to register your Sporting Licence rather than risk a claim being rejected. PLEASE NOTE there is no requirement to register your sporting licence for Australian record claims or for badge flights. Pam Kurstjens-Hawkins Records Officer Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Pawnee tow plane
Hi All, Does anyone know of such an aircraft that might be available (in Australia), for sale? If so, details please, preferably off list. Thanks, Gary ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Trailer for a long wing Kookaburra
Hi Derek, Quite possibly, some might say exactly the same thing about the aircraft! Gliding legend Doug Robinson, (from GCV), called the short wing version a Brickaburra. Was this tongue in cheek I wonder? I think that somewhere along the line I helped to rig a couple of LW Kookaburra's, but this is NOT an experience that lives forever in my memory! Perhaps this is a very good thing! As always, I imagine the secret to rigging this type is to have plenty of man-power, and just one person (who knows exactly how everything - glider and trailer - works), to coordinate things. I wonder what an unbiased person might say about the practically and ease of using Emilis's trailer! Does such a person still exist out there? Also, how well did this trailer tow? BTW Peter C, does your trailer match Emilis's description? Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock Sent: Wednesday, 8 July 2015 7:57 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Trailer for a long wing Kookaburra Sounds hideous... -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of emilis prelgauskas Sent: Tuesday, 7 July 2015 1:04 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Trailer for a long wing Kookaburra I don't know where GLZ is these days. When I owned it, it had an open trailer ex Southern Cross GC. I then built an enclosed trailer which was sold on to the late Mike Valentine and John Viney. This trailer has (from memory) the tailplane in the roof, the outer wing panels side by side with root ends in the front right corner (looking from the rear open door), the fuselage with rudder at the front end diagonally across the trailer, and the centre section against the left wall with underside facing outward. The centre section is in a cradle at the front trailer end in a rolling frame, so that it can rotate horizontal once the centre section is clear of the trailer rear with its door swung out of the way. The centre section is at a height that clears the fuselage height rolling on the ground. A stand holds the external end of the horizontal centre section. This permits the fuselage to be rolled under, tilted away from the trailer side as the external stand is removed and the centre section mated at this somewhat inclined angle. Once rigged, this part airframe rolls aft away from the trailer and the other lighter parts can be carried and rigged. On 06/07/2015, at 4:04 PM, Peter Champness wrote: We are attempting to put VH-GRN into service. The trailer is pretty atrocious and it is a lot of trouble to unpack and to load the glider. Does anyone have a trailer or have any good ideas re wing stands, rigging aids etc. Peter Champness___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6037 / Virus Database: 4365/10184 - Release Date: 07/07/15 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] flying cat
A snake too! From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Monday, 22 June 2015 3:08 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flying cat Nor to me but there has been a myth about such an event in gliding in Australia for years. From: Norm Sutton mailto:nls...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 2:30 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flying cat Doesn't look like a glider to me. On 22 Jun 2015, at 14:21, Christopher McDonnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com wrote: http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/06/22/13/58/cat-goes-sky-high-in-glider-r ide ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Good press
Quotable quotes The times I enjoyed it most is when I have been high [in the atmosphere]. Parenthesis/brackets are just sooo handy at times. Seriously, it is nice to see the word getting out. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Friday, 19 June 2015 2:04 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Good press http://www.abc.net.au/local/photos/2015/06/19/4258343.htm ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 7
Geez Noel, you lived/are living in interesting times! Did some ol' Chinese magician put a curse on you, by any chance? I assume that your planned wave route to NZ is via Tasmania? If so I estimate that the journey is just a tad under 2500 k. How much fuel did you say the Stemme holds? I have an alternative suggestion: After the boys have finished with the Perlan II glider, (it will obviously be superseded in a very short time frame by the Perlan III, IV V etc as Airbus is now paying the bills), just borrow this museum piece from them, make a few mods (like fitting it with a big jet, financed by Airbus of course: hey they might just have one lying around), and then climb into the core of the jetstream, just above Stawell, and simply blow across to NZ - much easier! Loved the bit in your story about the senior FA. Whilst mere pilots just fly aeroplanes, Hosties are much closer to God, and do important things like giving out the barley sugar, and cleaning up the vomit resulting from the pilots incompetence. Cheers, Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Noel Roediger Sent: Saturday, 9 May 2015 10:15 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Cc: 'Beverley Roediger' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 7 On August 2nd 1978 a Maule VH-MSM flown by Beverley with Doug Vanstan and Gordon Wilson as pax. towed me in John Bignall's New LS3 on its delivery flight to Bothwell, TAS. We climbed to 10,000 ft. and tracked so the Maule could reach land via abeam King Island to Wynyard where we refuelled. I'd developed a migraine and Bev called a cab to go into town to get me a packet of Panadol and something to eat. It took a couple of hours before my migraine ceased and then off we went to Bothwell. A temporary VHF comm. had been established using my portable Edo-aire. Unfortunately it, and its battery had to be housed and the only thing available to me was its hand held mic. That worked well while crossing Bass Straight but out of Wynyard we went out of comms. while Bev went onto Launceston control for airways clearance. We had to track via the Great Lake and on reaching it a comfortable cruise speed I noticed my IAS begin to decrease. When it came back to 60kts. the Maule began descending at around 500fpm. towards the lakes surface. We were only about 2000ft. above the lake when the descent began and it didn't decrease but turbulence became fierce. Bev, who had a comprehensive knowledge of wave flying, turned down wind to get out of the sink, but for what seemed an eternity, we continued to descend. As we neared the eastern shore the lakes surface had frozen and by the time we descended below 500ft. above it I'd decided to release when I thought I could glide close to the shore and land on the ice in the hope that relieved of the LS3 the Maule would be able to climb and clear the terrain to the east. I actually had my hand on the yellow T to release when our descent stopped and immediately we began to climb in smooth air. From there on the flight was uneventful and I released over Bothwell and waited for the Maule to land. Floating around and admiring the scenery I noticed smoke from a couple of chimneys drifting towards the others source - flew over the top of it and climbed with vario pegged at over 10kts. to the base of CTA and then pulled full D/B and descended to land at Bothwell. A couple of notes: I. Bev later advised she had the Maule at max power during our descent which would normally result in a climb around 1,000fpm. 2. Doug came along to inspect a Kookaburra at Bothwell with the intent to purchase it. He did and it now resides at Benalla as the only mid-wing ES52. MORE: A number of sailplane pilots flew for Ansett TAA in various types: F27, DC9, B737, B727 B767 and I'm sure all will agree that the leg Launceston - Hobart could be the most turbulent air in Australia. Mainly due to the fact that route flew through the rotor of the Tas. Wave system when it was working. On one trip in a B737 the system was at full strength. I flew the leg at lowest safe speed and had the aircraft move as it wanted in the turbulence. After landing at Hobart the senior F.A. barged into the cockpit and advised it was the roughest flight she had ever been on and she would never fly with me again. A quick check of the pax. manifest for the flight revealed their numbers did not warrant a full crew of F.A.'s so I was able to comply with her desire and left her in Hobart to find her own way back to Melbourne. MORE: In the late 70's - early 80's a bloke called Mac purchased a Pik 20E and operated from his own strip somewhere to the south of Hobart in the lee of Mt. Wellington. I've never caught up with his wave flying escapades but think Rob Dorning may know. A CHALLENGING THOUGHT: In the past years I did a lot of wave flying in the Grampians system
Re: [Aus-soaring] gliding
Hmmm A very Interesting point that you raise here Mike. For some reason I was reminded of Robert Brownings poem Up at a villa, down in the city, which I hadnt thought about for decades. Of course one answer is obvious, having both a town house, and a villa on the hill, would be very nice. In gliding terms a few of our more well heeled members have managed to do just that. Yeah ... its all about choice and compromise. Unfortunately for a large proportion of the human race, these people are not able to get to the point where they can even contemplate being able to make a choice. Day to day survival is the name of the game. Browning did not write a poem about the homeless, and those living in slums and shanty towns. Anyone like to give us an example of a poet who has done just that? Moving on: Over the years, having living in many countries, and many towns in those countries, I am now living in deepest downtown Ararat. You can Google Ararat if you are so inclined. It is a vibrant town with a pro active Council. It also has and airfield and a gliding club Grampians Soaring Club Inc. of which I am a member. From a gliding perspective, is this the ideal place to be? Well I was about to say no, but then I had further thoughts. Instead, let me share some of the positives with you. In brief, from Ararat Airfield which is located a mere 5 km east of the township, you can experience thermals, to 15,000 (on rare days to be sure), you can also ridge soar Lhangi Ghiran just a few km to the east of the airfield, and you can of course try the Grampians Wave, the potential of which has been barely touched on. So far a mere 32,000. So we have ridge, thermal, and wave opportunities. H. The GSC is holding its annual Queens birthday Wave Soaring Festival, out of a private strip at the base of the Grampians. You are invited to participate. Contact me off line for further details. In the first instance call me on 03 5352 4938 after 10.00 am. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Tuesday, 5 May 2015 6:14 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two seater Nats Hmmm Perth is a nice clean modern city that has had lots of money spent on it in the last decade. Excellent roads and public transport. Great river for sailing, the best beaches in Australia and you only need to drive 130km to Beverley to go gliding cross country instead of the 200+ just about anywhere else but Adelaide. I spent 5 years in Melbourne in 1971.:-) Mike 12:10 PM 5/05/2015, you wrote: You bloody betcha  given that i am now based in MELBOURNE !!  i feel alive!  back in the land of the living rather than being isolated in Perth!!! On 5 May 2015 at 11:19, Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Hi Ron Apparently there was some discussion about holding the comps at another venue. That didn't proceed so now NGC is seeking Sports committee ratification to hold them at Narromine in February. Will you come this time? Cheers, ROSS  From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Sunday, 3 May 2015 11:57 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Two seater Nats  Just wondering why this competition is not listed in GlidingAustralia.org in the calendar?? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy
Hi James, Good question, deserving an answer. In a lifetime of flying, here is my experience with instrument failure: Direct failure of the vario – once only. Ironically it was the mechanical vario that failed, but I had an electronic “ back up” – not a big deal. Experienced a plugged TE probe once – proved to be a VERY small spider (alive at the time, so it moved about in the line, thus rendering the DI check useless). I could fly by the “seat of my pants” OK, but not effectively compete. Task was eventually abandoned, and I returned to base, and blew out the line. Also (in a comp) – and once only thank God – total power failure INCLUDING failure of the back- up battery – unbelievable! I was very happy to have a mechanical Sage I can tell you, and hardly missed a beat, soaring wise, despite the elevated level of stress, and having to mentally do the final glide calculations. However the lesson I learnt here had nothing to do with any of this. Not having a radio at the finish proved, in the event, to be quite dangerous. So, if you ever find yourself in this situation, allow yourself a bit of extra height, to visually work out what is going on at the finish aerodrome, when you arrive, and if the wind is reasonably light, it is probably a good idea not to land on the active strip. Also had one altimeter failure in flight. Again not a big deal. Never had an in flight radio failure. That’s it! Regarding Mike B’s original comment on this topic, I think he has more or less totally covered it. However I will make one comment on his post. I think he makes a little too much of the dangers associated with outlanding: Make no mistake – there ARE very real dangers. However each and every one of us has been taught the proper procedures on how to deal with an outlanding. If you follow the procedures, you will be generally OK, with NO damage to glider or self, in almost 100% of cases. If you choose to ignore the procedures, well all I can say is “good luck”, because you will need it! Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of James Dutschke Sent: Monday, 27 April 2015 7:55 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy Straw poll. Has anyone, had a vario failure. Sent from my iPhone On 27 Apr 2015, at 19:14, Nick Gilbert cirru...@gmail.com wrote: Surely a backup electric vario is a more useful backup than a mechanical? With its own emergency battery you get a backup audio and averager as well as the needle. With all the stress that goes with a power failure having to stare at the instrument would make things worse. Nick On 27 Apr 2015, at 5:41 pm, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.com wrote: I have just been choosing instruments for a new glider. I did wonder for a moment after reading Adam's post whether I had wasted money on the Winter Vario. However I agree with Mike. A set on basic instruments (redundancy) is good insurance. In my case I have something in case of electrical failure. No doubt thermal can be found and used without any instruments, but it difficult. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: At 08:14 AM 27/04/2015, you wrote: There’s no need for a winter backup now Maybe not a Winter vario as backup but you should have a backup. Adam's advice is probably the silliest thing I've read in a long time. The only time you may reasonably want to rely on one vario is in a motorglider if you are prepared to start the motor and fly home if the single vario fails. Too bad if you are half way round a 500km triangle and set to win the Nationals if you do reasonably this day. For the paleo engineless gliders you are likely to risk an outlanding with its attendant hazards. Pretty stupid to risk breaking your glider or yourself over lack of a backup. If you are serious about competition you should be equipped to cope with single failures of equipment. Most people carry two flight recorders for good reason. A main navigation system and some reasonable backup is also necessary. Hint: fly with the backups working. The time to find out they have failed is NOT when you've had another failure. The backup vario may also have a different speed of response and will likely just display TE vario. Your primary should be showing netto (airmass) or relative netto ( airmass offset down by the sink rate in circling flight - this means it always shows the rate of climb you would get if you slowed down and circled, no matter your current airspeed). The two varios may show slightly different information without changing modes which can be useful. We've all had even modern electronic equipment fail. Phones, PC's GPS , etc etc. It is pretty good nowadays but anyone doing what Adam says is tempting fate, Murphy's Law and
Re: [Aus-soaring] Obtaining a CASA Glider Pilot License on the way to an FAA Glider Pilot's License
Jenny, Stop whinging/worrying: Put in anything you like, but quite obviously not somebody – or an organisation – that is deceased! In theory they have to have a valid email address. However if you are not in a hurry you might just make up something and see how you go. Hey guys, what might be an interesting email address to use here? This is a box ticking exercise to be sure. The essential thing is that CASA has YOUR contact details. Your last question is interesting. Please let us all know what you discover. Good luck. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Jenny Ganderton Sent: Monday, 20 April 2015 10:41 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Obtaining a CASA Glider Pilot License on the way to an FAA Glider Pilot's License Hi Simon, and everyone Just had another look at the CASA paperwork, and thought I'd try to fill it in for the heck of it. In Section C: Applicant Declaration it says I authorise CASA to send a copy of all communications regarding THIS application to my training provider Contact NameContact Email What are you supposed to put in here? Your gliding Club? CFI? Does anybody know? And when you get the GPL is it perpetual like the PPL? Regards Jenny _ From: Simon Hackett si...@base64.com.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 17 April 2015, 17:44 Subject: [Aus-soaring] Obtaining a CASA Glider Pilot License on the way to an FAA Glider Pilot's License Some months ago, I asked some questions here on this list about how to get a “Glider Pilot Certificate” on the way to getting a CASA “Glider Pilot License”. I got a variety of helpful responses directly and indirectly, along with a few folks basically wishing me luck !! Well, I actually did manage to do it in the end - it took months, but the CASA GPL turned up in the mail today (as an endorsement on my Part 61 license). For those of you who either want to do the same thing, or for those who are simply masochists, I’ve just spent some happy time today writing down the journey so far. I’ve done that mostly in the hope that others may find it helpful to make their own (similar) journey easier, if they should wish to undertake that journey themselves in the future. Here it is: http://simonhackett.com/2015/04/17/australian-to-usa-glider-pilot-license/ Cheers, Simon ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glow sailplane
Peter, In regard to your first critique, please have another CLOSE look at the information supplied. You will see that the drive motor is located directly between the two main wheels. On first inspection, this appears to be a very elegant solution. Comments from the forum ??? Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter Champness Sent: Monday, 20 April 2015 7:52 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glow sailplane I still like the single main wheel, preferably fixed. Simple, cheaper, robust and can't land wheel up. Yes it is tipped over at the start of the take off, but wing can be raised as soon as airspeed is sufficient. which might not take long with the wheel motor. Q4. Is the tail wheel stuck on? Seem s like this is a simulation at this stage. Turbofan required instead of turbo jet. Unfortunately nothing on the market yet. On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: At 07:24 PM 20/04/2015, you wrote: Thanks Mike, Q1. Main wheels are very close together. Would a wind tip it over? Single main wheel and wing tip wheels might be better. Possibly, but single wheel means it is already tipped over. I've thought about 2 single wheels a little further apart. More complex mechanism. Q2. Where is the jet air intake? Top of fuselage behind canopy. Pop up intake. Q3. Is the jet thrust sufficient for climb out? Should be but I'd like a little more while preventing running the engine at more than 80% thrust for longevity and reliability reasons. My rule of thumb is Thrust weight or around .18 to 0.2 so you can get 0.14 to 0.15 T/W without running engine at 100%. Mike On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com mailto:mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: VFMG members will have seen this already: http://www.proairsport.com/ Looks like PW-5 wings and tailplane, nicer fuselage and some really good ideas. I've though for some time that dual wheels and electric taxiing are a great idea although I'd have made it a taildragger with steerable tailwheel. Mike Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel:  07 4635 5784     overseas: int+61-7-4635 tel:%2B61-7-4635%205784 5784 mob: 042835 5784                : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] V3
Do you have any details? Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of James Dutschke Sent: Tuesday, 14 April 2015 10:07 PM To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] V3 Sent from my iPhone ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] FLARM update
Mike, You are probable right on the mark here. However, in this instance, I have no argument with their approach. The record shows that this device has saved lives (just as parachutes have saved lives). Do we begrudge Parachute Manufacturers making an honest living from their enterprise? Limiting entry of competition, where possible, has always been a valid business principle. I am almost certain that the guys from (FLARM, Switzerland), monitor this forum. Perhaps they might like to make comment? Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Saturday, 14 March 2015 7:41 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] FLARM update At 05:54 PM 14/03/2015, you wrote: FYI: FLARM has now published it's latest update - v6. It's available here:Â http://flarm.com/support/firmware-updates/ The protocols in the current version (v5) and new version (v6) are supposedly totally incompatible, so please update your FLARMs before next flight or you won't be able to see pilots with the other version. soapbox opinion I think it's very irresponsible of FLARM to publish a backwards incompatible upgrade like this. I am glad I am not flying in the Alps this weekend. /opinion I gather it is to prevent competitors from producing compatible hardware without paying royalties to Flarm. Mike ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Wool tuft testing
Mike, a very nice and relevant image! Adam, Re the Ventus, I wonder what information the factory might have on file (And will they make it available to you???) Does the factory know of anybody who has already gone down the route you are proposing? Adam, have you asked them these questions? If not, maybe you should consider an approach to the factory through Maddog if Mike is willing to cooperate. I suggest that this is worth at least a phone call or two. I know that the wing root to fuselage junction problem was bad for Libelles and Hornets, and now of course you can now buy retrofit fairings for the Libelle, which DO make a significant performance difference, as one would expect. From memory, the wing to fuselage junction was something that was given great attention in the design of the Concordia - was it something like 7 or 8 different profiles over a distance of 500 mm or so? As always, it is much better to polish the pilot, rather than the glider, but of course to be able to do both is a real bonus. Dick Johnston did quite a bit of testing of gliders over the years. What he measured was sometimes quite subtle, and required some quite sophisticated (and no doubt expensive), equipment ... and always not enough high tows at dawn! How are you going to measure the effect of any change you make? Here is one thought for you that might be worth following up on: Can you get your hands on the test equipment that Dick used, if it has not already been sent to landfill? Have you done any costing for your proposed project? What is your time frame? You might find that is much more economic just to go out and buy something like an ASG29, which quite possibly will give you more bang for your buck. I look forward to an update if you decide to proceed. Maybe an article in the mag. too? Good luck. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Tuesday, 10 March 2015 5:45 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Wool tuft testing Take a look at the root fairings on the P-38 http://www.gayot.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/lockheed-p-38-lightning .jpg Note the fairing is at the leading edge. Particularly noticeable on the wing to fuselage but also on the wing to booms. No fairing or fillet at the TE. Fixed an airflow problem apparently. A more blended wing/body junction may have some merit. Mike At 01:54 PM 10/03/2015, you wrote: G'day Anthony, Thanks for your detailed reply, lots to think about plan for. I'm going to wool tuft test the wing root of my Ventus, as I want to improve on the lamina flow induced drag in that area, which ultimately will help with climbing handling. Once I discover the separation points, I plan to 'fix it'.. Guessing I'll need to view the tufts at thermalling speeds/bank, at my usual cruise speeds. Cheers, WPP On 9 Mar 2015, at 18:38, Anthony Smith anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net wrote: Adam I have done it on the wing tip of a large military aircraft. Wing loading is only a problem if you have a particular issue that is wing loading related. In essence what are you looking for? Is it Reynolds Number related or is it Angle of Attack related? Or both? Wool lengths need to be visible to the camera or observer. For my project we had a PC-9 as a chase plane with a photographer and video camera in the back seat. So we had really big tufts. For your purpose, quite fine wool may work depending on how you plan to record the results. You do not want the tufts to overlap. Typical patterns have the end of each tuft, a small gap and then the start of the tape adhering the next tuft. Lateral spacing is the same. Wool thickness will depend on what speed you are operating at. Also will depend on how visible you want it. I used the thickest wool we could find in order to be visible to the camera. Also we were operating at much higher speeds than your average glider. You will not need to be that thick. Some simple experimenting with a range of wool sizes stuck to the wing root may give you an answer. How many tufts will depend on the length of the wool tuft. For my project, we adopted a diamond pattern. This aligned really well with some features on the wingtip that we wanted to study. The size of the diamond was dictated by the length of the tuft and the features on the wingtip.A square pattern may work better for your problem. Installation: You need to tie a knot in both ends of the wool tuft. The knot under the tape helps to hold the tuft in place. The knot in the free end stops the wool unravelling. A simple knot will do. Don't get carried away or the mass of the knot will affect the results. A dob of super glue on the free end may also work just as well. We used triangular pieces of fabric reinforced tape (instant airframe)
Re: [Aus-soaring] Best Pterigium surgeon in Brisbane?
Once I couldn't spell eye-surgeon, now ay is one. Do you mean Pterygium? Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mandy Temple Sent: Thursday, 5 March 2015 3:57 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Best Pterigium surgeon in Brisbane? Thanks Mandy ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4299/9229 - Release Date: 03/04/15 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] ABC Radio Brisbane - Ding Something New Each Week
Kevin, Thank you for the report; full version. Delightful! Without doubt, a very honest and real account, without too many (any?), of those quaint factual errors that seem to almost always plague these reports. Once upon a time (for me, almost beyond living memory), I think most of us were in a somewhat similar state/space. Regards, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Brisbane Gliding Adventures Sent: Friday, 27 February 2015 7:27 PM To: aus-soaring Subject: [Aus-soaring] ABC Radio Brisbane - Ding Something New Each Week https://doingsomethingneweachweek.wordpress.com/2015/02/26/soaring-with-the-eagles/ Kevin Rodda Caboolture Gliding Club ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
Hi Rolf, Some time has passed since you responded to my yesterdays post. In the interval, there have been some very considered responses from other members of this forum. In your initial response I think you really missed the point that Derek made, and which I fully supported. Derek basically said that very useful X/C training can be done in a K13 performance type glider, even in this day when Duo's and DG 1000's are available in an increasing number of clubs. Please note exactly what Derek added (but don't go too far : ) And that is the very crux of the matter. The training has to be conducted within the performance envelope of the glider being used, and the conditions on the day. You seem to be saying that conditions are so bad at your home airfield - Bacchus Marsh - that (most times), you fully expect to be in a paddock if you attempt a X/C flight in a K13 from your airfield. ?? Most clubs have a milk run 100 k triangle that early X/C pilots can attempt. Usually the pilot is never more than 20 or 30 km from base. I suggest to you that on an average Oz day at Bacchus Marsh, not even a K13 is going to be out of range of the home base for very long on such a task. BTW, I know that 750 k flights have been done out of BM. Maybe the first or second ever done in Australia? Useful X/C training does NOT require the use of State of the Art gliders. Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. Richard Frawley, I am staggered after reading your post. Just as Derek covered the early training situation in a low (by current standards), performance glider in one line , you seem to have covered in a very few words, the entire guts of the situation. Well done indeed. I suggest to the GFA Board that your post is incorporated (spelling aside), into the relevant GFA manual. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of rolf a. buelter Sent: Monday, 16 February 2015 1:18 PM To: aus soaring Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots Dear Gary, I beg to differ from your opinion. On a lazy Sunday afternoon I'm happy to embark on a cross country coaching flight in our Duo as I expect to be back in time for a refreshing drink and still return to my home at a christian time. With an ASK 13 and an crappy old trailer I expect to outland, spend three hours in a fly blown paddock and then 2 hour in the dark to put the glider into a crappy old trailer, return to the airfield around mid night and be in my bed earliest 1 am Monday. Besides all that I inflict the same fate on at least 3 other fellow club members. N.B. - a flight within gliding range of an ASK 13 to the aerodrome does not qualify as a x-country coaching flight. At best it represents some thermalling practice. To conclude a couple of personal questions, which you don't have to answer if you prefer not to: How many cross country coaching flights have you conducted over the last 24 months? How many of those were in an ASK 13 or similar performance glider? How many of these gliders had a crappy old trailer? How many ended in an out landing? Come to think of it - how many out landings did you do last 24 months? To out myself - I have done 4 or 5 pre-arranged training ones and none in anger. With kindest Regards - Rolf From: gstev...@bigpond.com To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 20:44:57 +1100 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots Hi Derek, Hope you are well. This is a very late response to your email, but as no one else seems to have made comment on your suggestion, let me say that you have summed up the entire discussion in a single line. Well done. As a rule of thumb, early X/C flights (dual or solo), should not exceed 3 hours. There has been some suggestions that a good trailer is almost essential for road retrieves. What a load of rot! A good trailer is a great asset, but it is by no means essential. What IS ESSENTIAL is that the pilot intending to go X/C is totally familiar with the workings of the trailer that IS available. Quite simply, if the pilot is not familiar with the trailer, then NO X/C for that pilot until this exercise is done. Just possibly, said pilot might get off his a*se, and make a few improvements to said trailer, if the trailer is a bit marginal (almost always!), but in my experience, this is a rare occurrence indeed. Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 7:54 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals You don't need a DG1000: take the K13! (but don't go as far :) )
Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
Hi Derek, Hope you are well. This is a very late response to your email, but as no one else seems to have made comment on your suggestion, let me say that you have summed up the entire discussion in a single line. Well done. As a rule of thumb, early X/C flights (dual or solo), should not exceed 3 hours. There has been some suggestions that a good trailer is almost essential for road retrieves. What a load of rot! A good trailer is a great asset, but it is by no means essential. What IS ESSENTIAL is that the pilot intending to go X/C is totally familiar with the workings of the trailer that IS available. Quite simply, if the pilot is not familiar with the trailer, then NO X/C for that pilot until this exercise is done. Just possibly, said pilot might get off his a*se, and make a few improvements to said trailer, if the trailer is a bit marginal (almost always!), but in my experience, this is a rare occurrence indeed. Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 7:54 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals You don't need a DG1000: take the K13! (but don't go as far :) ) -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of DMcD Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 6:02 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals the GFA pilot training programme for more cross-country exposure during the ab-initio stage. Who said that! If only that happened more during training. IMHO, that's the single most important thing for a club to do when trying to make the conversion from student pilot to addicted and committed flyer. Having done enough HG flying to know what I was up for, the endless circuit training did not kill my enthusiasm but it can. My son said at one point that he was wondering what it was all about until he got to cloud base on day… and I don't think anyone ever took him XC during training. I have tried to persuade our club to stop the clock and some point and say to students at some point, this is not being charged for… we're going to fly somewhere for an hour to show you why we all do it. I'm sure it would make a big difference to the number of pilots who drop out after going solo. But then we don't have something like the DG which would make getting home more likely than in a Grob or K21 :-) D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4273/9029 - Release Date: 01/31/15 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] ASW20C for sale
Or you could buy MY ASW 20BL (525 kg MAW - in 15 m configuration - and 16.6 m wing extensions included), HDY for $50, 000 firm. See a few more details and a few pics on Maddog's website, and then give me a call - 03 5352 4938, or email me (off list PLEASE), for the full detail. A/C is located in Ararat, Victoria. Cheers, Gary Stevenson From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Don Woodward Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2014 10:26 AM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: [Aus-soaring] ASW20C for sale Hi all, I've decided to sell my ASW20C. Built 1986 Refinished in PU by Peter Holmes December 2010 New Clearnav system, radio, seals September 2013 Komet trailer Minimal accident history which is rare for a 20. Set up for comps, nothing to do. $60,000 Regards Don Woodward 0427350628 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] ASW20C for sale
Of course. Thank you Peter. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter (PCS3) Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2014 8:56 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ASW20C for sale or list it on http://glidersales.com.au/single.php :-) PeterS On 27/11/2014 6:29 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: Or you could buy MY ASW 20BL (525 kg MAW - in 15 m configuration - and 16.6 m wing extensions included), HDY for $50, 000 firm. See a few more details and a few pics on Maddog's website, and then give me a call - 03 5352 4938, or email me (off list PLEASE), for the full detail. A/C is located in Ararat, Victoria. Cheers, Gary Stevenson From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Don Woodward Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2014 10:26 AM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: [Aus-soaring] ASW20C for sale Hi all, I've decided to sell my ASW20C. Built 1986 Refinished in PU by Peter Holmes December 2010 New Clearnav system, radio, seals September 2013 Komet trailer Minimal accident history which is rare for a 20. Set up for comps, nothing to do. $60,000 Regards Don Woodward 0427350628 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] VIC State Comps at Benalla called OFF - Pilot commtment
Hallo John, I for one, REALLY appreciate the effort that you (and no doubt a very few un-named others), have put in to try and try and get this comp up, as a stand alone event in Victoria for 2014/15: THANK YOU. * I wonder what this abysmal result says about the mind set of firstly GCV pilots (the potential host club), then Victorian pilots in general, and finally that of pilots in SA NSW who could quite easily (?), also attend? [Yeah I know all about those pathetic excuses, that start I only have 4 weeks annual leave per year, and I have already committed to spend 2 weeks of that at the beach with my family.] Anyone considering this matter, must also think about the concurrent 2014/15 SA State Comp debacle. To my mind, there is not the slightest doubt that at the National level, the performance of pilots competing at this level continues to advance. This is not surprising given the increasing International exposure gained by many of the competing pilots. This experience feeds back into the system:. The performance advance, not just of the top 3 or so pilots, but of the whole field is quite marked. I think that as far as competition flying is concerned, at the National and International level things are basically on track. As to the rest? The only thing I can say is that it takes time and effort to become a good soaring pilot. If you want to be a good competition pilot, or a good distance flyer, there are additional skills that must be learned. Club Regattas and State Competitions are the ideal training ground to learn competition flying skills. If you want distance, start early and finish late. None of this is impossible: however it does require YOUR commitment. The OLC is basically about distance flying. Are there differences here to flying State/National Competitions which are basically only about speed flying ? Of course, but perhaps surprisingly, the essential skills required are, in the main, exactly the same. Mostly the top scoring Australian OLC pilots also include the top scoring Australian competition pilots. Have a re-read of James Cooper's very recent article in Gliding Australia - issue 21 - on Winning the OLC. You will see that his final comment is on the total commitment that is required. Regards, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of John Switala Sent: Sunday, 23 November 2014 1:46 PM To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] VIC State Comps at Benalla called OFF The VSA State competition that was re-scheduled to Benalla between 29 November and 6 December 2014, has been called OFF. There were only 7 participants, spread over 4 classes, not enough for a valid comp. Also, we had organised people to help run the comp, including one who was taking leave to help us, and it is hardly fair on them to give up their time and then not have a valid comp. The VSA State comps will probably be run in-conjunction with Horsham week in February 2015. Regards John Switala ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Goondiwindi accident et al
Hallo Chris, Matthew S All, I sometimes shudder at the sheer ignorance that is often displayed by members of this forum. Here is a very condensed overview, of who has responsibility, in an aviation accident. Prime responsibility rests with the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB), a Commonwealth “Responsible Authority”. Among other things this body is empowered to investigate Aviation, Marine, and Rail accidents. Check out their web site for more information. I understand that many years ago they elected not to investigate gliding accidents. As a result, gliding accident investigation is now the responsibility of the GFA, who report back to the ATSB where appropriate. Chris Thorpe is the Executive Manager, Operations for the GFA. As part of his responsibilities, he is charged with investigating and reporting gliding accidents. In the case of the Goondiwindi accident, he completed his report on the 31 October 2014, and forwarded a copy to the ATSB. Matthew, I hope that EXACTLY answers your question. Now, would you like to know more? If you are a GFA member log on to the GFA site – members area. If you are not a GFA member, bad luck. Go to Members Services and then Operations, and look up Accidents/Incidents Particularly take note of the general comments made by David Pietsch in the preamble to this area of the site. For The Goondiwindi accident see “2015 Summaries - report No S0421”. Be aware that this report will be considered by your peers in GFA, and it is possible that one outcome may be the development of an education program for competition pilots focusing on human factors and risk management. Regards, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Friday, 31 October 2014 5:29 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit Gee Matthew, there is no ‘like’ tab. From: Matthew mailto:yellowplant...@gmail.com Scutter Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 4:22 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit Official report from who exactly? On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi Paul, As I somewhat earlier said, we should wait for the official report, and full knowledge of the facts, before trying to draw ANY definitive conclusions. Given this, I therefore was NOT making any judgement as such, at all. Other than that, you are in general perfectly correct, and your further comments/conclusions are astute and bear thinking about. From what Jim choose to tell us, there is a difference between his final glide and that of the other two pilots who also outlanded close to home. Jim ended up in a situation where he had nowhere to go. In contrast, the other 2 pilots safely landed, without incident, in a suitable paddock, and I think that is the lesson here. They did indeed show greater wisdom. Hope that helps to clarify things for you. Kindest regards, Gary BTW let me correct one part my earlier email. The Specialist is an American – not Australian - work written many years ago by Charles Sale. However the parallels to the Australian experience are unmistakable. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Paul Mander Sent: Thursday, 30 October 2014 1:54 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit I think you’ve been a bit quick to judge. You state that whilst “Jim chose to fly on”, two other pilots made quite routine outlandings 7km back on the track, implying a greater wisdom on their part. Those outlandings were not routine, if you study the traces. They were straight in landings just as was Jim’s. One of them makes a desperate last circle close to the ground then straightens up and lands. There is a striking similarity in all three traces, which paint a cautionary picture. All three picked up climbs just before their last turn, and then appear to consider themselves on final glide. Then they turn into a 20kt headwind from the SW, lose their final glide and start to search for lift. All three try to thermal again without success. All three glide on and the ground rises up to smite them; the other two are simply 7km further out when it does. There are undoubtedly lessons to be learnt from their experience, not the least being how quickly thermals die in Queensland and how quickly the trap can snap. But it’s not instructive, or fair, to make out that one was foolish where others were wise. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun
Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit
Hi Paul, As I somewhat earlier said, we should wait for the official report, and full knowledge of the facts, before trying to draw ANY definitive conclusions. Given this, I therefore was NOT making any judgement as such, at all. Other than that, you are in general perfectly correct, and your further comments/conclusions are astute and bear thinking about. From what Jim choose to tell us, there is a difference between his final glide and that of the other two pilots who also outlanded close to home. Jim ended up in a situation where he had nowhere to go. In contrast, the other 2 pilots safely landed, without incident, in a suitable paddock, and I think that is the lesson here. They did indeed show greater wisdom. Hope that helps to clarify things for you. Kindest regards, Gary BTW let me correct one part my earlier email. The Specialist is an American not Australian - work written many years ago by Charles Sale. However the parallels to the Australian experience are unmistakable. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Paul Mander Sent: Thursday, 30 October 2014 1:54 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit I think youve been a bit quick to judge. You state that whilst Jim chose to fly on, two other pilots made quite routine outlandings 7km back on the track, implying a greater wisdom on their part. Those outlandings were not routine, if you study the traces. They were straight in landings just as was Jims. One of them makes a desperate last circle close to the ground then straightens up and lands. There is a striking similarity in all three traces, which paint a cautionary picture. All three picked up climbs just before their last turn, and then appear to consider themselves on final glide. Then they turn into a 20kt headwind from the SW, lose their final glide and start to search for lift. All three try to thermal again without success. All three glide on and the ground rises up to smite them; the other two are simply 7km further out when it does. There are undoubtedly lessons to be learnt from their experience, not the least being how quickly thermals die in Queensland and how quickly the trap can snap. But its not instructive, or fair, to make out that one was foolish where others were wise. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary Stevenson Sent: Tuesday, 28 October 2014 10:45 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit Michael Texler in his post of the evening of 28 Oct, finally Got It. Tim has now amplified matters, so that to mis-quote one famous author, even a schoolboy can understand. Just a preamble: the point I really want to make is that on that last day when Jim choose to fly on, 2 pilots in Sports Class elected to make quite routine outlandings (into the same paddock apparently), just 7 km from home. As usual their traces are available on Soaring Spot. Names do not need to be mentioned just look at Sports Class, and then check the outlandings and distances covered to pinpoint the two relevant traces. Tim , you are being a little bit shy in your use of the Oz vernacular. The Municipal Dunny Man filled a very valuable and quite unique place in servicing one the essential needs of communities prior to the development of reticulated sewerage systems. So to get the language straight, let me put shed loads back into its true blue and dinky di context: shit-cart full loads. Further ; For Australian Musical Researchers try Googling Municipal Dunny Can. . And of course do not overlook that Australian work of great literary worth titled The Specialist. For visual art buffs this work was no doubt part inspiration for the 2006 Oz movie Kenny. Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, 28 October 2014 8:39 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules... Hi all, Once again a disclaimer: I hold no relevant official position with the GFA. I do have considerable experience as a rulemaker, as a Contest Director, as a Scorer, and as a competition pilot. I speak only for myself. What follows is general clarification about competitions and rules, and is not intended as a comment on any specific incident. Back when I was involved in competition rulemaking, I remember we introduced some principles as a preamble to the rules and on checking I found that most of them are still there: At all times it remains the responsibility of pilots to operate in accordance with the GFA Manual of Standard Procedures and all applicable
Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit
Michael Texler in his post of the evening of 28 Oct, finally Got It. Tim has now amplified matters, so that to mis-quote one famous author, even a schoolboy can understand. Just a preamble: the point I really want to make is that on that last day when Jim choose to fly on, 2 pilots in Sports Class elected to make quite routine outlandings (into the same paddock apparently), just 7 km from home. As usual their traces are available on Soaring Spot. Names do not need to be mentioned just look at Sports Class, and then check the outlandings and distances covered to pinpoint the two relevant traces. Tim , you are being a little bit shy in your use of the Oz vernacular. The Municipal Dunny Man filled a very valuable and quite unique place in servicing one the essential needs of communities prior to the development of reticulated sewerage systems. So to get the language straight, let me put shed loads back into its true blue and dinky di context: shit-cart full loads. Further ; For Australian Musical Researchers try Googling Municipal Dunny Can. . And of course do not overlook that Australian work of great literary worth titled The Specialist. For visual art buffs this work was no doubt part inspiration for the 2006 Oz movie Kenny. Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, 28 October 2014 8:39 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules... Hi all, Once again a disclaimer: I hold no relevant official position with the GFA. I do have considerable experience as a rulemaker, as a Contest Director, as a Scorer, and as a competition pilot. I speak only for myself. What follows is general clarification about competitions and rules, and is not intended as a comment on any specific incident. Back when I was involved in competition rulemaking, I remember we introduced some principles as a preamble to the rules and on checking I found that most of them are still there: At all times it remains the responsibility of pilots to operate in accordance with the GFA Manual of Standard Procedures and all applicable laws and regulations. Pilots are expected to conduct themselves at all times in the spirit of these rules and in accordance with the practice of good sportsmanship. Safety is at all times the primary consideration. If at any time a pilot feels that the requirements of these rules compromises the safety of their flight then they should take whatever actions are required to ensure the safety of themselves and of other air users. This may include withdrawing from the task or from the competition. Pilots are required to conduct themselves in a manner that will not bring disrepute on the Organisers, the hosting club or the GFA. There is nothing in the competition rules that suspends any laws. There are no exemptions. Pilots flying in a competition are just pilots, and must obey every requirement of the law. They remain fully responsible as Pilots in Command for the conduct of the flight. If they choose to disobey the law or good practice then that is entirely their responsibility. The competition is a game. Flying is not. No one wants to break their glider or themselves, and the rules of the game clearly discourage that by the simple fact that most of the time there is another race tomorrow. You won't get any points from a hospital bed or if your glider is in bits. On the last day, well if there was a million dollars at stake I could imagine that the risk of rolling yourself into a ball might be worth taking for some - but in our game why would anyone break a $100K glider for a bottle of cheap wine and a round of applause? Or even for the opportunity to spend shed loads of their own money representing Australia? If you want to know who is responsible for the safety of a flight where you are the Pilot in Command, take a good look in a mirror. And be very sure of what you see. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 28/10/2014 2:06 PM, Texler, Michael wrote: The caveat should be in place that the crash was a result of your own poor decision making. Now what constitutes poor decision making is a matter of opinion. Surely competition rules should be in place to discourage crashing: i.e. you crash, you are out of the comp. You pack up and go home. I'll leave it to others more experienced in these matters to give reasons why. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:
Re: [Aus-soaring] Press
Hi Mike, I not sure that I understand your question. At Goondiwindi there was no set minimum height to cross the circle. Over the line is in. Preferred landings on the airfield are straight in and land long. Over the years the radius of the finish circle at State and National levels has been played around with: 1.5 , 2, 3 10 km have all been trialled at various times places. 3 km seem to get the nod. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Friday, 24 October 2014 3:23 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Press Gary, Thanks. So the finish circle was 3km radius. What height AGL ? Mike At 09:30 PM 23/10/2014, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_003E_01CFEF10.EFA13B30 Content-Language: en-au Hi Mike, As no one else has responded to your quite reasonable query, let me inform you that Jim Crowhurst did indeed do just that. Details, regarding how it happened, and damage sustained to the glider are sketchy, so I suggest that you wait for the official report. I am pleased to say that Jim did not appear to be physically injured at all - a VERY lucky man indeed! He was at the wind up dinner, where he was awarded the Club Class Champion trophy, as reported in the local press article. If you have a look at Jim's trace, available on Soaring Spot, I think you will be able to very clearly see the scenario. Club Class flies dry, and there was about a 20 kt headwind component on his final glide. Jim crashed within the 3 km finish circle, and therefore got both speed and distance points for the day. In accordance with the rules, Jim did not incur a points penalty for crashing. I will make one comment - DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES THINK THAT THIS CANNOT HAPPEN TO YOU. The history of gliding is full of reports of EXPERT pilots who fucked-up and ended up very dead! BEWARE, and be aware. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Thursday, 23 October 2014 10:10 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Press So did someone hit a power line? Mike At 06:28 PM 22/10/2014, you wrote: This is a bit comical. https://www.google.com/url?rct=j https://www.google.com/url?rct=jsa=turl=http://www.goondiwindiargus.com.a u/story/2642553/amazing-escape/%3Fcs%3D1451ct=gacd=CAEYACoUMTE4NTMyMzQ5OTQ 2Mjc4ODEyMDAyHTZiNzMyZjY2MmIzY2FiM2U6Y29tLmF1OmVuOkFVusg=AFQjCNGOkDYHpvkZar jgCVD_905ZY7SSHA sa=turl=http://www.goondiwindiargus.com.au/story/2642553/amazing-escape/%3 Fcs%3D1451ct=gacd=CAEYACoUMTE4NTMyMzQ5OTQ2Mjc4ODEyMDAyHTZiNzMyZjY2MmIzY2Fi M2U6Y29tLmF1OmVuOkFVusg=AFQjCNGOkDYHpvkZarjgCVD_905ZY7SSHA ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Press
Hi Mike, As no one else has responded to your quite reasonable query, let me inform you that Jim Crowhurst did indeed do just that. Details, regarding how it happened, and damage sustained to the glider are sketchy, so I suggest that you wait for the official report. I am pleased to say that Jim did not appear to be physically injured at all - a VERY lucky man indeed! He was at the wind up dinner, where he was awarded the Club Class Champion trophy, as reported in the local press article. If you have a look at Jim's trace, available on Soaring Spot, I think you will be able to very clearly see the scenario. Club Class flies dry, and there was about a 20 kt headwind component on his final glide. Jim crashed within the 3 km finish circle, and therefore got both speed and distance points for the day. In accordance with the rules, Jim did not incur a points penalty for crashing. I will make one comment - DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES THINK THAT THIS CANNOT HAPPEN TO YOU. The history of gliding is full of reports of EXPERT pilots who fucked-up and ended up very dead! BEWARE, and be aware. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Thursday, 23 October 2014 10:10 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Press So did someone hit a power line? Mike At 06:28 PM 22/10/2014, you wrote: This is a bit comical. https://www.google.com/url?rct=j https://www.google.com/url?rct=jsa=turl=http://www.goondiwindiargus.com.a u/story/2642553/amazing-escape/%3Fcs%3D1451ct=gacd=CAEYACoUMTE4NTMyMzQ5OTQ 2Mjc4ODEyMDAyHTZiNzMyZjY2MmIzY2FiM2U6Y29tLmF1OmVuOkFVusg=AFQjCNGOkDYHpvkZar jgCVD_905ZY7SSHA sa=turl=http://www.goondiwindiargus.com.au/story/2642553/amazing-escape/%3 Fcs%3D1451ct=gacd=CAEYACoUMTE4NTMyMzQ5OTQ2Mjc4ODEyMDAyHTZiNzMyZjY2MmIzY2Fi M2U6Y29tLmF1OmVuOkFVusg=AFQjCNGOkDYHpvkZarjgCVD_905ZY7SSHA ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Press
Hi Ron, Cheers old mate. Interesting that you should mention Andy Pybus. Just a few weeks ago, for the first time in 20 years I was thinking about him. A true (forgotten), champion indeed. Yeah, Gawler is an interesting place to fly out of. Please get the terminology right - not Sea Breeze, but Maritime Replacement Air. Please do not get your knickers in a knot: There is no conspiracy theory, or hush hush operating here. The accident happened only one week ago. In the fullness of time all will be revealed. As I intimated in my earlier post to MB, you should be able to work out for yourself what happened with just a quick look at the logger data. Regards, Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Thursday, 23 October 2014 11:10 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Press So now we know. Thanks Gary. Why the reluctance for thisinformation to be on the net out in the open?? Is it because he crashed and then became champion?? not the first ime this has happened, Years ago Andy Pybus crossed the finish line at Gawler but did not land on the airfield; but I guess the difference is that he did not crash. And yes Gary we all could easily get into this situation and especially at Gawler with the sea breeze and its vagaries, so I guess if a guy wants to win so much he crashes his plane it is up to him. Pity about our insurance premiums, which raises a couple of points about choice doesnt it??? but again why has this been so hush hush?? Rgds Ron S On 23 October 2014 19:30, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi Mike, As no one else has responded to your quite reasonable query, let me inform you that Jim Crowhurst did indeed do just that. Details, regarding how it happened, and damage sustained to the glider are sketchy, so I suggest that you wait for the official report. I am pleased to say that Jim did not appear to be physically injured at all – a VERY lucky man indeed! He was at the wind up dinner, where he was awarded the Club Class Champion trophy, as reported in the local press article. If you have a look at Jim’s trace, available on Soaring Spot, I think you will be able to very clearly see the scenario. Club Class flies dry, and there was about a 20 kt headwind component on his final glide. Jim crashed within the 3 km finish circle, and therefore got both speed and distance points for the day. In accordance with the rules, Jim did not incur a points penalty for crashing. I will make one comment – DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES THINK THAT THIS CANNOT HAPPEN TO YOU. The history of gliding is full of reports of EXPERT pilots who fucked-up and ended up very dead! BEWARE, and be aware. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Thursday, 23 October 2014 10:10 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Press So did someone hit a power line? Mike At 06:28 PM 22/10/2014, you wrote: This is a bit comical. https://www.google.com/url?rct=jsa=turl=http://www.goondiwindiargus.com.au/story/2642553/amazing-escape/%3Fcs%3D1451ct=gacd=CAEYACoUMTE4NTMyMzQ5OTQ2Mjc4ODEyMDAyHTZiNzMyZjY2MmIzY2FiM2U6Y29tLmF1OmVuOkFVusg=AFQjCNGOkDYHpvkZarjgCVD_905ZY7SSHA ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4181/8436 - Release Date: 10/22/14 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Cost, hail damage
Hi Teal, Yeah, I remember you, from a few years back. Sorry to hear that you were injured, and could not fly for a while. It appears that you have now recovered enough to contemplate rejoining the flying (hopefully specifically the gliding) community. Your comment . demonstrated to be quite plausible. particularly took my eye. So very true . but I think you have already been around the gliding scene enough to know that in general, most gliding blokes are OK, and in the vast majority of cases, are in fact real nice people. [Perhaps I should rephrase that last sentence re cases? There are indeed some hard cases about!] It is (unfortunately), very apparent, that gliding for women is somewhat different to gliding for males. If you have been keeping your finger on the pulse, you will know that this is an issue that is being addressed, not only here in Australia but worldwide. I am sure that you are aware that there is a strong woman's gliding group active here in Oz. If I can help further, please contact me offline, or give me a bell 03 5352 4938. Kindest regards, Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Teal Sent: Friday, 12 September 2014 2:37 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cost, hail damage Wow. I've not been able to fly at all over the last year or so because of an injury. But any concerns I've had that getting back into gliding might mean having to deal with piles of sexist crap from misogynist creeps have now just been nicely demonstrated to be quite plausible. Actually, that issue is just one of a bunch of things making it hard for me to get back into gliding at present. But it's a factor, oh yes it it. Thanks a ton, boys. Teal On 12/09/2014 9:05 AM, Derek Ruddock wrote: Eew. It’s all lumpy *From:*aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Justin Sinclair *Sent:* Friday, 12 September 2014 7:27 AM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Cost, hail damage Hi Simon, unfortunately that is a Schleicher model, no amount of money short of the GDP of NewZealand will fix it. May I suggest you place your hail damaged one in the glue pot to help keep old ASK's and ASW,s flying. Here is a hail damaged Schempp-Hirth Model of the same age, as you can see they are built to a higher quality snipped image The other advantage is that all Schempp Hirths come in a variety of models to suit all tastes no matter sex or inclination. Attached below is the basic trainer and first solo machine. Justin Sinclair 17 Queen st. Scarborough Qld 4020 Hm 07 3885 8949 Mob 0421 061 811 Email jjsincl...@optusnet.com.au mailto:jjsincl...@optusnet.com.au Sent from my iPad On 12 Sep 2014, at 5:56 am, Simon Rammelt monkeypaws...@gmail.com mailto:monkeypaws...@gmail.com wrote: Now THIS is hail damage! On Sep 11, 2014 11:30 PM, Michael Scutter michael_scut...@yahoo.com.au mailto:michael_scut...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Any rough guesses as to what the repair bill will be? Michael ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring LegThighCellulite.png ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8199 - Release Date: 09/12/14 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Controlling attitude
Hi Mark,
Astounding! To me this is an absolutely stunning summary of the current
situation.
I can see why you have nominated not to make further comment - you have
summed it up quite succulently, and there seems little else that can be
meaningfully said by a mere male on this topic at this point in time. [That
cartoon is so brutal and true!] However I wonder if any female member of the
forum would like to make further informed comment?
It would seem that the ONLY thing left to do is to action things. But
what actions? Quite obviously what we are really discussing here is a major
culture change. Usually, in the nature of things, this takes time, almost
always a great deal of time. Can this process be accelerated?
Never the less I find it somewhat heartening that the topic is now here on
Aus- Soaring for discussion.
Terry Cubley, besides being the Aus rep, is now also the Vice-President of
the IGC. I know that Terry is a member of this forum and therefore at least
scans most of the posted material. As I said in an earlier post to Teal, the
problem is worldwide, and it would seem appropriate that Terry is
directed/nicely asked/whatever by the members of this forum - the majority
of whom I assume are GFA members and therefore can somewhat informally make
this request. {Yeah, yeah, yeah , I know the formal process: The GFA member
has to put it to his/her Club Committee, the Club puts it to the State
Association and then the SA puts it to the GFA Board ... No wonder the likes
of Mike B despairs} - to do everything in his power (whatever that is ),
to expedite that cultural change at international level.
Terry, can you please respond to my post?
Regards,
Gary
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mark Newton
Sent: Friday, 12 September 2014 7:10 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Controlling attitude
I reckon there will be a bunch of people who've read some of the posts on
this mailing list today who'll be saying, I don't see the problem. It's
just a bit of harmless fun. Doesn't hurt anybody.
Guys say that all the time, never realizing that the only reason they're
able to say it is because they've typically been utterly indifferent to
whether their fun is, indeed, harmless, or whether it has hurt anybody.
I don't know, perhaps parents of girls have a different view. Perspective
and experience.
The reason it usually passes without mention is because most women, having
put up with it for their entire living memory, are so sick of it that they
can't be bothered going through the exhausting rigmarole of engaging
anymore, and just remove themselves from situations where it's a problem;
and because so many men, harboring a cataclysmic failure of empathy, don't
even notice the reactions of women, and just let it slide without saying
anything.
The secret life of women.
http://i.imgur.com/OigLS.png
(I know the cartoonist: He told me some of these quotes were provided by his
daughter)
In case you haven't noticed (and I'm almost certain that some of you
actually haven't), gliding is almost entirely dominated by men. There's no
physical reason why that should be the case. There's also no innate
gender-based difference in skill to explain it either.
I'm going to say it's cultural: The traditions and attitudes present at
gliding clubs all over Australia are, either overtly (like today's email
messages) or subtly (like so much of everything else) repulsive to women.
I've seen so many women enjoy their AEF, stick with it for a couple of
weekends, and never come back. And thousands of pilots barely ever wonder
why that's the case. Over time, gliding clubs become male ghettos, all over
Australia.
What we walk past, we accept.
When we're learning to fly, the first lesson we're taught is stability. The
second lesson we're taught is how to change our attitude.
This community seems absolutely excellent at stability. When it comes to
sexism, maybe it ought to be skilled enough to master attitude.
There'll no doubt be replies to this message. I've said my piece, I'm not
going to respond to any of them them. But I, like everyone else who reads
them, will be making character judgements regardless. If you find that idea
challenging, perhaps take 24 hours to have a good hard think about why.
Fin.
- mark
[ I will also reserve judgement over whether off-list replies should be
forwarded to the list.
There will be no shadows here. ]
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Water Landing
Hmmm! You touch on an interesting point here when you say landed wheel down trying to put them up the beach. It seems quite obvious to me that just like paddock landings, no two water outlandings are exactly the same; every water landing has its own peculiarities, and hazards. Whilst it might seem obvious, let me definitively state here, that in the first instance, a water landing should be avoided at all costs! Here are a few scenarios to consider, and no doubt there are many more: Landing in open waters - the sea, or a very large lake - Here wind and wave action will be present, How are you going to deal with this? As far as I can determine, nobody has seriously looked at this scenario. YouTube has some fascinating footage of a T21? landing in relatively smooth seas. Quite obviously, this ship has a fixed wheel, so the gear-up, gear-down option does not apply. Also of interest here is the actual landing speed of the glider. I am prepared to take bets, but it is very obvious that this glider lands at a speed of about half the landing speed of a modern composite fibre glass glider. Great landing. A question of interest is What happened next?[Quite obviously it did not instantly sink.] Landing close to an ocean-facing ridge/cliff. There may or may not be a landing option. In the latter case this is generally defined as a crash if things go pear-shaped! Landing in a relatively small lake, without much wave action ie relatively smooth surface. Landing in a river/canal: Ditto the above. The last two scenarios seem to be the focus of the current thread, but as I have pointed out above, THERE IS MUCH MORE TO CONSIDER! Let me make a few comments, starting with the first line quote above. If there is a beach, why not land on it - you do not have to head towards it. Cath Conway has summarised the situation, regarding what the manufactures' recommend: Yes, it is very simple - land wheel down. Mike Borgelt has pointed you towards some theory to consider as to just why you should do this. In the lake scenario (without beaches), ALWAYS land parallel to the shore, with say about 2 m of water under your keel - if you can judge this. This will max out your chances if your glider decides to become a submarine. In your post there is another point, that I think needs further discussion - video evidence shows that the glider does not necessarily RAPIDLY sink as you stated. It seems to me that in the instance presented, the glider is happily floating along and is very far from sinking. Get your horse before the cart. When the electrics/electronics are submersed, kiss them goodbye. Here is another thought: After running the video of the water landing in question a few times, it is very apparent that the video quality is of such poor quality, that it is impossible to determine if the wheel is up or down. Most posts seem to assume the wheel is up. In my opinion, highly unlikely if we believe the theory ... which I do. Just why pilots get into the situation where they might experience one of these scenarios is I think endlessly fascinating, but any discussion on this is I think the possible start of a whole new (and possibly most interesting), thread. Who want to start it? Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of DMcD Sent: Saturday, 30 August 2014 3:53 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Water Landing Sent to me in 2008: Tests were carried out on a lake in Germany by Walter Schneider and Wolf Lemke of LS fame. They ditched an LS1 prior to the World Championships in Finland because they were worried about the lack of land out options and the proliferation of lakes. They assumed that landing wheel up would be the preferred option, but discovered that the glider 'bounced' off the surface and dropped a wing as the fuselage entered the water because of it's shape. They tried it again with the wheel down, deliberately put the tail down first and discovered that the wheel acted as a gentle brake and controlled the whole process much better. I've seen the photographs, so they may be available on some German web site somewhere. During the Worlds in Borlenge Sweden, a couple of gliders were put into lakes and all came out okay. I'm pretty certain they landed wheel down trying to put them up the beach. The major issue with such landings is that the glider sinks VERY quickly (regardless of wheel position) and the electrics can cause problems as you'd expect. It's certainly not recommended! ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4745 / Virus Database: 4015/8125 - Release Date: 08/29/14
Re: [Aus-soaring] Storm chasers
Hi Rob, I too have suitable sight, as long as I am wearing corrective lens! Seriously, as Laurie points out what Ben Quinn wants is a donation from you. This will give you voting rights too - the bigger the donation the more votes you get. [The very essence of the Capitalist System in a nutshell.] Potential suitable sites, are apparently more or less a dime a dozen, at this point in time, but if Ben can get the funding, there is probably no reason why your site could not eventually get up, if it meets the (unstated?), criteria. Remember the more you give the more voting rights you have, regarding site selection. A big enough donation may allow you enough votes to jump the queue and get YOUR site up and running first. BTW the idea is for YOU to contact him, not vice versa! Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Rob Izatt Sent: Monday, 25 August 2014 3:28 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Storm chasers Get him to contact me as i have a suitable sight Rob Izatt On 25 Aug 2014, at 1:06 pm, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Please put the new thread under a new label. Mike At 12:48 PM 25/08/2014, you wrote: Australian Weathercam Network Ben Quinn from Brisbane Storm Chasers is trying to get funding to extend a set up a network of weather cameras around Australia. Have a look at this crowd funding page. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1650021102/australian-weathercam-networ k Regards Laurie Hoffman On Monday, 25 August 2014 12:23 PM, Al Borowski al.borow...@gmail.com wrote: On 24/08/2014, Ulrich Stauss usta...@internode.on.net wrote: So whilst the GPC tells me that the pilot has been trained to L1 IO standard, the privileges and limitations depend on the log book endorsements (not the GPC). I could imagine that for some clubs and CFIs the legal liabilities arising from MOSP 2, paragraph 13.1.2 (The Club of a person exercising Level 1 Independent Operator privileges is responsible for that person's operations, even when the person is operating independently) may be considered too high a risk exposure in this day and age so that they may wish to restrict the privileges by such logbook endorsements. I've never understood the point of this. My driving instructor isn't responsible for any stupidity on my behalf once I have a car license. The same goes for a number of other licenses (boat, RAA etc) I hold. Why is there seemingly no stage in between 'gliding student' and 'gliding instructor'? Admittedly this only makes a real difference with privately owned gliders / motorgliders. If you're flying a club glider obviously the club can impose whatever conditions they want. Cheers, Al ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Flarm
Hi Guys, There is no doubt that the Aus-soaring site is an appropriate and great place to buy and sell gliding related items for forum members. HOWEVER once you have made initial contact, PLEASE conduct the rest of your negotiations offline. I suggest that the initial postee, might put a brief note on the site as to the outcome of his/her post, if the outcome is positive. Gary PS I have an ASW 20BL supership for sale. I need to reduce my fleet holding. Contact me off line, or give me a call me on 03 5352 4938 if this is the ship you need. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Paul Bart Sent: Saturday, 23 August 2014 7:47 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Flarm Hi Denis I have an OZ Flarm for sale Cheers Paul On Aug 23, 2014 6:11 PM, dennis hipperson dennishipper...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all am looking for a second hand flarm any for sale. Regards, Dennis ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] [Xcsoar-user] XCSoar ~ Aldi Car GPS, $60 thiis week
Please amplify/explain this bit it will convert to XCSoar on a TFC card Where does the card go, where do you get one, and how much do they cost? Are there different varieties/models of TFC cards? Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Alan Wilson Sent: Friday, 22 August 2014 11:38 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Cc: xcsoar-u...@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] [Xcsoar-user] XCSoar ~ Aldi Car GPS, $60 thiis week If you have not yet got your XCSoar box for your glider, Aldi have a 4.3 car GPS on sale this week [in Australia] for $60. Go Cruise Catalogue Number 43719. [About the cost of an aerotow?] It comes with a car charger and windscreen mount etc, and it will convert to XCSoar on a TFT card [not included] in a matter of seconds. Portrait [I prefer] and Landscape mode works. I know most have XCSoar on an Android mobile phone, or can get a Nexux 7 for about $200, and Windows CE version of XCSoar is no longer supported. But it is a nice size and does the XCSoar job.. and the Australia car navigation looks user friendly also. FYI Alan Wilson Canberra. PS. A Great devotee of XCSoar. Now have 4 car GPS XCSoar capable, but this one was easiest. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4745 / Virus Database: 4007/8076 - Release Date: 08/21/14 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] BoM data feed to Australian Atmospheric Soundings website
Mark, I have had a look at the comments to date. There is no doubt that people are getting value from the information you put out in an easily digested format. As one correspondent pointed out, current availability timing of the output is an issue, but there is not much we can do about that! To further delay the output would be a pity, if it could be at all avoided. In the interest of just throwing ideas about for a possible alternate solution, here are two that would maintain the status quo: 1. Negotiate at the highest level (Director/Senior Policy Adviser), with the BoM to obtain an (ongoing), exemption from the registration fee, on the basis that you have historically provided a well supported service to the entire Australian gliding (in its various forms), community, and that you are prepared to continue this service. The BoM likes to see its services used. You may be aware that in the past they have provided (free of charge), senior forecasters and equipment to State and National Competitions. I would be somewhat surprised if you did not get at least a very sympathetic hearing. 2. Negotiate an annual grant to cover the fee - maybe even from the BoM itself! Keep up the good work. Regards, Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mark Newton Sent: Wednesday, 20 August 2014 4:50 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] BoM data feed to Australian Atmospheric Soundings website G'day. I've recently received email from the Bureau of Meteorology to say that the data feed they've historically provided to make http://slash.dotat.org/cgi-bin/atmos work will, in future, cost $1125 per annum. Or, more to the point: The data itself will continue to be free, but there's a $1125 per annum fee to be a registered user of it. I can get similar data at no cost from University of Wyoming's Upper Air Project. In my experience, the sounding data from there is delayed by an hour or so, because they get it from the BoM too, then process it before they make it available. I see a non-trivial number of HTTP server hits on my website, so I know people are still using the facility. But server hits don't tell me if they're getting value out of it. So: Is it still useful? My options, as I see them, are: 1. Pay BoM, 2. Refactor the code to fetch from UoW, and accept that it'll run a little bit late; or 3. Shut down the site. Currently leaning towards (2), but nobody is getting value out of it then (3) is clearly my path of least resistance. Thoughts, comments, requests? - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 4007/8066 - Release Date: 08/19/14 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam
Richard, I am pleased that you are considering this: Use in your cockpit might save your spine/life one day. The subject of an Oz supplier comes up time and time again. Note that Confor is just a brand name. There is one supplier in WA who imports the stuff from the USA in large lumps, called billets - they cut what you want off this lump. However don't bother: their price is totally unrealistic. I note that Jeff Farrow has pinned this supplier for you. Your cheapest option is to import what you need direct from the USA. Here are a couple of names from the USA for you to Google: Dynamic Systems Inc - they originated the stuff, and Sunmate. You will note that there are many densities available. You will find that layers of different densities can be combined. However, as fascinating as this subject might be, it is unlikely that you will need to go down this route. As always, do your research. Ambient temperature is a relevant factor. What is ideal in Finland (say), will not be ideal in most of Australia, as the temperature here is generally MUCH hotter. The higher the temp, the firmer the foam needs to be. Given the recent distressing post from Cumulus Soaring, this might be a possible source of supply for you. Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Richard Frawley Sent: Tuesday, 19 August 2014 8:59 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam has anyone found a source for this foam in Oz? At 06:33 AM 19/08/2014, you wrote: Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net You can reach the person managing the list at aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest... Today's Topics: 1. Microair M720 VHF radio service support (Michael Eales) 2. Latest virgin promo code (Justin Sinclair) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:27:37 +0800 From: Michael Eales m...@gm.harbaskin.com Subject: [Aus-soaring] Microair M720 VHF radio service support To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Message-ID: CAFnuc7gwTO5S_2S1cLXzJ=sdvt2zsn90tmqq4vzwvvyxe5x...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi all, The club recently tried to get a Microair M720 serviced with the Microair folks in Bunderberg, however we were informed that they no longer service the 720's They use to have a Best Effort approach to these radio's in the past as I believe the company inherited them with the name even though they were not the original development company. Apparently there has been a change of management and a decision was reach to no longer support these radio's. They are an old radio, but it was working fine till recently. Does anybody out there know of any other reputable service agents that has the kit to handle a M720? Thanks in advance. Michael. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/2014 0819/9171d170/attachment.html -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 20:33:45 +1000 From: Justin Sinclair jjsincl...@optusnet.com.au Subject: [Aus-soaring] Latest virgin promo code To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Message-ID: 675f27b0-ef7e-460f-9242-715174681...@optusnet.com.au Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hope it helps someone out. Justin Good Afternoon All, As we move past the half-way point of another busy year, it?s important to take time out to relax and rejuvenate with friends and family. To help you do this, Revenue Management have released some amazing fares on selected domestic routes (see attached). These fares are available on our public website by entering the special promotion code KQZ59. These selected routes offer a 30% discount on Saver Lite and Saver Fares for the travel period25 August ? 17 September inclusive and will be on sale until the 31 August 2014. Remember as these are commercial fares, full terms and conditions apply as per the website and ticket purchased. Staff travel cannot assist you with bookings, changes and cancellations. Bookings are only available online and subsequent changes/cancellations should be made through the website or the GCC. Please share this fantastic deal with your friends and family and don?t forget to check out our exclusive staff hotel discounts on our
Re: [Aus-soaring] Importing of gliders
Last time I spoke to Gary –more than two years ago ?- he had been earlier directed by his employers to have nothing further to do with glider imports into Oz. [Be aware that things change!] Maurice has gone, but his employers are still in the game. ITM ( International Trade Management), based in Tullamarine is the company. I have no idea re the quality of their current service. As always, do your homework, and then make your own informed decision. As a small aside, Maurice once told me that all he did was organize the movement of Leggo Blocks from here to there. Quite apt in an understated way. HOWEVER in the reality, please be aware that there is a LOT more to it than that! Chris, have you given any thought to contacting the likes of Tom Gilbert or Bernard Eckey for a few tips? Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ian Mc Phee Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 7:44 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Importing of gliders Gary Brasher has been excellent for me over the years. and does not seem to matter which state you are in. He was on a weeks leave when using him and accepted calls from me. I have also used the late Mauris Little Ian M On 18 July 2014 06:46, Chris Runeckles cmruneck...@gmail.com wrote: G'day all Can any one recommend a good import and freight agent for importing a glider into Australia ? Is Gary Brasher still in that line of work ? any leads would be helpful, besides the two listed on the GFA web site, I have been in contact with both of them. Many thanks Chris Runeckles ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] [World comps in Finland
Hi Mandy, Many thanks for your input re how to link up with the current state of play. I don't recall the exact details, but a few years ago, I do recall that for Bruce Taylor, the penny dropped, and he stated that (from hard learned experience), he was not from that point on, prepared to fly in comps in Europe north of a certain line that he defined. Certainly countries like Finland and Sweden were out. I have been following the OZ teams adventures in this round of World Competition, and I can only agree with BT. I live in Central Victoria, and the weather conditions over the past week or two have been very ordinary here for XC soaring, or any soaring at all, for that matter. Having said that, there is not the slightest doubt that we are experiencing conditions here, that are MUCH better than in Finland: For starters it is not snowing! Very few knowledgeable people will dispute the fact that to be a gliding bum, you generally need to be a millionaire, and equally importantly, have a lot of free time, to indulge your passion. If you meet the criteria,(especially if you are European), I guess that attending a comp anywhere in Europe is not (financially), a big deal. In this situation there will be a basic overall cost which is RELATIVLY minimal. In comparison, the cost of attending a European contest for an OZ pilot is considerable, and I will add that very few of our pilots are millionaires. The record shows that flying comps in Northern Europe is fraught. So we now get to the very nub of the situation. Why is that countries like Finland and Sweden are approved by the IGC to hold these comps? My old mate Terry Cubley, as our IGC delegate, knows a great deal about all this. Quite obviously, the whole situation is totally political, and Terry goes in there and batts for us: Sometimes he has a win. Sometimes he has a win when it seems impossible. A bit like flying X/C on a dodgy day in fact! So Terry, can the Australian gliding movement do ANYTHING to prevent this (in real terms, totally unrealistic), situation - re-occurring? Regards, Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mandy Temple Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2014 5:59 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [World comps in Finland There are several blogs and FB pages See Sports News on the GFA site http://www.glidingaustralia.org/GFA-Sport/Sports-News/ They are just about to start streaming today's briefing live on YouTube Mandy -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Saturday, 21 June 2014 3:08 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Offtopic perhaps - but would be interested to read opinions Do our guys in Finland do a blog each day?? if so link please? Ron On 18 June 2014 17:02, Dion Stuart Baker diob...@gmail.com wrote: How about changes be made so that colour coding/general systems are changed so that colour blind people can distinguish between them? Changing to red/blue would help with 99% of those who are colourblind (the Protanopia and Deuteranopia affected people, which is upwards of 99% of colourblind people - Tritanopia is the cause for some 0.001% of people). I'd be interested to know how many colour blind pilots are out there - I think the statistic I heard is 25% of Western males and 10% of the world's population of males have some severity of colour blindness, although for many of them it's so slight they don't know - I personally work with a guy who never knew until he applied for a position in the ADF. It's pretty depressing (albeit understandable) when you're automatically excluded from a slew of jobs because of something you were born with - for me it was commercial pilot, SAPOL, MFS, half the jobs in the ADF, lab technician, just to name a few. It's more frusturating when you feel that being colour blind wouldn't matter, or if a different colour coding system was used, wouldn't be an issue. Just my 2c from a butthurt colourblind guy. Dion On 18 June 2014 11:34, Nelson Handcock nelson.handc...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/casa-crack down-threatens-to-ground-colour-blind-pilots-20140617-3abkg.html Thanks Regards, Nelson Handcock 0409 149919 http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- sudo apt-get install witty-mail-signature cannot find package: witty-mail-signature sudo apt-get install lame-mail-signature installing ... The main idea of Inception: if you run a VM inside a
Re: [Aus-soaring] Offtopic perhaps - but would be interested to read opinions
Hmm, Just fished this back out of my “delete” box. Ross raises a couple of interesting points here, namely: 1. “Who is Peter Fereday” ie What is his professional background? How did he get to his current position? What are his responsibilities/what does he actually do? Are there political implications here, and if so what have his masters commanded him to do? Is he a “competent person” ? 2. If there are no political implications, what is his purpose in raising this (dead???), issue? If we do not know the answers to these questions, and in particular to Q2, it is somewhat presumptuous to assume “ .an issue that is complete and utter nonsense”. This thread basically began with a “Brisbane Times” news article. Let me make a VERY important point here. In my dealings with the popular media, where I have been in full position of the facts, I have NEVER yet seen a 100% accurate presentation of those facts by the media! Please keep this foremost in your minds. The Brisbane Times somewhat vaguely mentions a paper written by Douglas B Watson (PMO, NZCA), which (the reporter thinks???), is relevant to his article. Has anybody FOUND this paper? Is it, in fact relevant? Have they READ it , CONSIDERED it, and come to an opinion? It is reported that the AFAP made a submission on the matter. If the BT article can be taken at face value, the AFAP submission was very weak. I find this somewhat difficult to believe. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ross McLean Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2014 6:37 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Offtopic perhaps - but would be interested to read opinions Good Grief! Excluding colour blind pilots just doesn't make any sense at all to me. It may have once upon a time, before HF and VHF radio communication and mobile phones were commonplace and the Tower would give take off and landing clearances with Red or Green lights. But that went out with flying goggles and fabric and wood aeroplanes. What is the point? I personally have several very long term good friends who are Airline Captains with 10's of thousands of hours and long successful aviation careers behind them who have always been colour blind. Never seems to have compromised their ability nor the safety of their operations. Just who is this CASA's Industry Permissions Manager Peter Fereday anyway and what is the purpose of raising an issue that is a complete and utter nonsense? According to the Brisbane Times article quoted below .Colour blind pilots have been able to co-pilot passenger planes in Australia for the past 25 years since two landmark cases in the 1980s at the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. Dr Arthur Pape, a pilot who brought one case against CASA at that time concisely stated that there was ''not a skerrick of evidence to suggest that pilots have made so much as a scratch on an aeroplane as a result of colour vision impairment'' in that time. ''Those pilots have been impeccable,'' he said. ROSS _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Dion Stuart Baker Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2014 5:02 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Offtopic perhaps - but would be interested to read opinions How about changes be made so that colour coding/general systems are changed so that colour blind people can distinguish between them? Changing to red/blue would help with 99% of those who are colourblind (the Protanopia and Deuteranopia affected people, which is upwards of 99% of colourblind people - Tritanopia is the cause for some 0.001% of people). I'd be interested to know how many colour blind pilots are out there - I think the statistic I heard is 25% of Western males and 10% of the world's population of males have some severity of colour blindness, although for many of them it's so slight they don't know - I personally work with a guy who never knew until he applied for a position in the ADF. It's pretty depressing (albeit understandable) when you're automatically excluded from a slew of jobs because of something you were born with - for me it was commercial pilot, SAPOL, MFS, half the jobs in the ADF, lab technician, just to name a few. It's more frusturating when you feel that being colour blind wouldn't matter, or if a different colour coding system was used, wouldn't be an issue. Just my 2c from a butthurt colourblind guy. Dion On 18 June 2014 11:34, Nelson Handcock nelson.handc...@gmail.com wrote:
Re: [Aus-soaring] GLIDING INTERNATIONAL - JULY ISSUE
Hey Bob, Great news. You must be making good progress, to be even thinking about flight testing. I note you use the words .. flight test “CONFIGURATION”. Does this mean that the actual flight tests might occur sometime (much??) later than towards the end of the year ? Is the weight of the paper-work yet equal to, or greater than the weight of the Pik 27? Anyway, keep up the good work. Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Bob Ward Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 6:50 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GLIDING INTERNATIONAL - JULY ISSUE Peter, Unfortunately, John guilds the lily quite a lot. I am in close communication with Jack and his team, and agree that Super Cub performance when towing is more realistic. . However, if Aki Suokas performance figures for the Pik 27 prototype are accurate, with the 115 HP Rotax 194, then my Australian prototype, expected to be in flight test configuration later this year, should indeed outperform the Pawnee, with the same engine prop combination as the Beaufort Hornet, but with less drag. We shall see. Interesting possibilities. Regards Bob Ward From: Peter mailto:plchampn...@gmail.com Champness Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 2:10 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GLIDING INTERNATIONAL - JULY ISSUE The Beaufort Hornet tug only has a 2.2 litre Subaru engine of 160-170 Horsepower. Therefore it will not outperform a Pawnee. We do expect that it will have equivalent or better performance to a Supercub. On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 11:59 AM, John Roake j...@johnroake.com wrote: THE JULY 2014 ISSUE OF GLIDING INTERNATIONAL Our subscribers are writing to tell us they enjoy our new format. Thumbs up all round. It has been a great move. The July issue goes in the mail next week. Expect it in your mail box by June 27. The issue covers over 60 new absorbing topics for yet another coffee table issue. The photos alone make it a ‘must have’ issue. • The authorative soaring journalist, Elk Fuglasang-Petersen (Germany) writes for Gliding international about her personal experiences in gliding with a Germany club and then comparing the experience with three years membership in an American club. Her observations are entertaining and informative. The differences are quite incredible. • Aldo Cernezzi has written about his evaluation of Schempp-Hirth’s Arcus E, the all electric fantastic two seater. Exceptionally well illustrated this report points out all the goods things about the Arcus E and about its limitations and costs. • Our staff reporter Rod Dew writes about ‘Mr Aerodrome’ - a story from the early 1900s detailing a catastrophic failure in trying to launch his glider a top a house boat in the Potomac river in USA. This Smithsonian director could have been as famous as the Wright Brothers as he had more answers to directional control than they had at the time. This is a fascinating hitherto hidden story of an exceptional pioneer. Did you know that Englishman Matthew Boulton in 1868 was the first to patent the aileron? Rudders, ailerons, and elevators had been invented long before the Wright’s efforts began. The English patent was unknown to the Wright Brothers who had the greatest difficulty getting a U.S. patent for their methodology. • The 2014 Grand Prix is over and the finals flown at Sisteron, France was an exciting event. Covered for Gliding International by Ritz du Luy, it was all the more interesting because a Frenchman stole the crown. • Schleicher’s new two seater, the ASG32 has flown and we captured the first test flight, flown from Poppenhausen, Germany. A sailplane of beauty! • The cost of towing aircraft gets more expensive by the hour. Two unrelated Australian’s have built home-built tugs that are expected to have performances greater than a Pawnee at less than half the price. A great review and a helpful paper for any club reviewing their towing costs. All this is followed by a review of the new Robin - Europe’s towing work horse. Great if the club has $.25 million to spend • We review Tom Knauff’s new book – a detailed collection of gliding accidents over the past 10 years. This is fascinating and instructive! • Two new, two seater electric motor gliders are flying. The Sun Seeker and the Sun Flyer (unrelated). There is no shortage of new projects being designed, worked on and projected to go into production. • This is frightening. US Customs officials are insisting on searches of motorgliders flown cross country. They have a misguided belief that they are ferrying drugs. A detailed story on one such search. • Research - A paper on how a university has been able to fly an aircraft by
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
Hallo Peter, Ha-ha – you’ve got it! Be that as may, T-L was a master painter, and it would be nice to see some of his works on exhibition here in Australia. Photographs and digital images just do not capture the reality of the colour, detail and sheer vibrancy of the real thing. Re the 2nd image, I think that Mike B has it truly pinned as a little earlier. Google “Wright Bros time line” for further information. Re creating a new thread, just follow the aus-soaring instructions. If you are a lazy b, just change the words in the Subject Line of an existing post! Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter Champness Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2014 9:02 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau Thanks Gary, For some reason the images were not easy to down load. Image 1. I take they are scub(bers). Image 2. Wright flyer at the Rheims event 1909? On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi All, Further to my earlier email, here are two images for your consideration. The first might inspire you to have a look at higher definition images of T-L ‘s work. Re the second image – a painting by Rousseau who was a contemporary of T-L – what is that strange contraption that is shown in the sky? Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary Stevenson Sent: Monday, 9 June 2014 10:32 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence Hi Mike, Awesome. Very nicely brought together. ** Loved the bit about the “stunted poor excuses for trees” I immediately flashed on Henri de Toulouse- Lautrec, one of the masters of the French Post- Impressionist school of painting who was also a bit that way (although not a tree). * Waffling on, you are no doubt familiar with the “Mallee Scrub” . Unknown to most of the world, Mallee roots are the finest/ best heat output, wood fuel known to man. However I can assure you that they are “a bit” gnarly, and do not split like plantation grown pine. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 9 June 2014 7:29 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence You need to understand the geography and climate of SW W.A. The wheatbelt is the area in the SW where the rainfall is high enough to grow wheat. Check out any satellite photos of the area. The rabbit proof fence is the limit of that area pretty much. I had a pal in physics at UWA in the late 1960s who came from a farm just west of the fence. If they were lucky they got a crop 2 out of 5 years and then the bastard emus would be looking hungrily at it from the other side of the fence. So the fence location isn't exactly independent of the surface vegetation/rainfall characteristics. The rain is mostly in winter apart from the odd summer thunderstorm and comes from the showers following passage of cold fronts. Much of the rain falls on the coastal plain and Darling range (what there is of it - Perth is built on a coastal desert) and what is left goes to the wheatbelt. After the harvest in December the wheatbelt is nearly bone dry. Great outlanding country - tell me about it. Your biggest problem, if you didn't figure out where the fences/roads/houses were while still airborne is figuring out where to walk to after landing. If you fly there in summer you'll get good at flying in blue thermals except for the odd spectacular trough day which will have very high based cu and high convection. I've been to 16500 feet in blue thermals there. Much like South Australia but without a large river for irrigation fed by the Great Divide. The dry ground and only a little bit of dry stubble left means there sure as heck isn't a lot of evaporation (latent heat flux) as there isn't any water in the vegetation. In the scrub the stunted poor excuses for trees will however still evapo-transpire so in summer there will be more latent heat flux there. In August the rains are still happening in the crop growing areas with higher rainfall so that's where the latent heat flux is greater than in the scrub. Nothing all that surprising in that paper. What isn't obvious is the salinity problem. Lots of salt lakes and salt coming to the surface as a result of tree clearing. This has been addressed since the mid 1970s with replanting and other mitigation methods. Mike At 06:49 PM 9/06/2014, you wrote: Thanks
Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence
Hi Mike, Awesome. Very nicely brought together. ** Loved the bit about the stunted poor excuses for trees I immediately flashed on Henri de Toulouse- Lautrec, one of the masters of the French Post- Impressionist school of painting who was also a bit that way (although not a tree). * Waffling on, you are no doubt familiar with the Mallee Scrub . Unknown to most of the world, Mallee roots are the finest/ best heat output, wood fuel known to man. However I can assure you that they are a bit gnarly, and do not split like plantation grown pine. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 9 June 2014 7:29 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence You need to understand the geography and climate of SW W.A. The wheatbelt is the area in the SW where the rainfall is high enough to grow wheat. Check out any satellite photos of the area. The rabbit proof fence is the limit of that area pretty much. I had a pal in physics at UWA in the late 1960s who came from a farm just west of the fence. If they were lucky they got a crop 2 out of 5 years and then the bastard emus would be looking hungrily at it from the other side of the fence. So the fence location isn't exactly independent of the surface vegetation/rainfall characteristics. The rain is mostly in winter apart from the odd summer thunderstorm and comes from the showers following passage of cold fronts. Much of the rain falls on the coastal plain and Darling range (what there is of it - Perth is built on a coastal desert) and what is left goes to the wheatbelt. After the harvest in December the wheatbelt is nearly bone dry. Great outlanding country - tell me about it. Your biggest problem, if you didn't figure out where the fences/roads/houses were while still airborne is figuring out where to walk to after landing. If you fly there in summer you'll get good at flying in blue thermals except for the odd spectacular trough day which will have very high based cu and high convection. I've been to 16500 feet in blue thermals there. Much like South Australia but without a large river for irrigation fed by the Great Divide. The dry ground and only a little bit of dry stubble left means there sure as heck isn't a lot of evaporation (latent heat flux) as there isn't any water in the vegetation. In the scrub the stunted poor excuses for trees will however still evapo-transpire so in summer there will be more latent heat flux there. In August the rains are still happening in the crop growing areas with higher rainfall so that's where the latent heat flux is greater than in the scrub. Nothing all that surprising in that paper. What isn't obvious is the salinity problem. Lots of salt lakes and salt coming to the surface as a result of tree clearing. This has been addressed since the mid 1970s with replanting and other mitigation methods. Mike At 06:49 PM 9/06/2014, you wrote: Thanks Robert, Just to clarify for me. The latent heat flux is the movement of heat energy from the surface to altitude associated with the evaporation of water at the surface and its condensation at altitude in clouds.  I take it that, Latent heat flux is one of the effects which generates thermals. The other is sensible heat ie ground gets hot, transfers heat to near surface air by conduction. Air then rises (convection). Do you have any thoughts on why the natural vegetation (we used to call it scrub) has a strong bias to Latent Heat Flux in December but not in August? On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Robert Hart crispin...@gmail.com wrote: On 08-Jun-14 08:44, Peter Champness wrote: That seems right. They should have asked glider pilots. I note that the paper shows that the latent heat flux is strongly skewed to the native vegetation areas in Dec (soaring season). In August it is the other way, higher over the agricultural areas. I assume latent heat flux means avapoeration. Latent heat is the heat absorbed or released during a phase change (ie solid/liquid/gas phases). In water, there is very significant latent heat involved in evaporating water which is then released when the water vapour recondenses to liquid water (droplets) in clouds. The latent heat flux is the movement of heat energy from the surface to altitude associated with the evaporation of water at the surface and its condensation at altitude in clouds. As flatland glider pilots, we ride this flux in the form of thermals generated by a number of effects. -- Note: I am changing my email address - please only use my gmail address from now on! Robert Hart                          crispin...@gmail.com +61 438 385 533
Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence
Hi Mike, Yeah, I tend to agree with you. This is classic glider lore, that we were all taught in the cradle. Somewhat related are those impossible final glides late in the day, which were achieved by following highly vegetated creek lines. Of course a big creek like the Murray River, gives you more of a sporting chance. I sort of remember a flight that was done many years ago by our old mate Noel Roediger, out of Benalla. I think the last turn-point was Shepparton A/F. Noel used the late evening lift off the Broken River, to win the day. He was in fact the only pilot in the competition to get home that day. I wonder if Noel remembers that flight? From what I can remember, it should be etched in his memory forever! My (fallible), memory says that over the last 50 k or so, Noel achieved a MAX height of around 2000' AGL. I think that we can assume that there was a high pucker factor involved here, and no doubt Noel slept well that night! Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Saturday, 7 June 2014 3:52 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence Matthew, Here's the link to the actual paper. There are others in the research repository. Search for Lyons,Nair http://researchrepository.murdoch.edu.au/4041/ This is a climatological study. I think the clouds on any given day over the scrub may be for other reasons. Particularly late in the day the scrub will trap warmer, moister air (tree evapo-transpiration - it's what they do) which will become lighter than the air over the open country nearby at low level leading to late convection with high based cu. Mike At 08:08 AM 7/06/2014, you wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/science/earth/14fenc.html The article is ancient but I thought it was fascinating nonetheless. Often I've seen cumulus form over the sunset country but not elsewhere when flying out of Waikerie or Horsham. Apparently it's not a coincidence. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Whatever-Happened-To-Brenda-Hean
Mal, Did you note the reference to Karen Silkwood early in this video? Check out (Google), that one out too, if you have not already done so However don't see how any of this is relevant on a GLIDING forum: Please enlighten me. Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mal Bruce Sent: Thursday, 10 April 2014 10:27 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Whatever-Happened-To-Brenda-Hean http://www.smh.com.au/tv/Investigation/Whatever-Happened-To-Brenda-Hean-5000 151.html ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Non Aviation Radio Communication Issue
Mark, You seem to be receiving some good ideas, but I wonder if they are really addressing the issue? If I read you correctly, in comparison to (relatively recent??) good past performance, thing have got worse without anything material being changed in the system. If that is the case then there must either be an external cause, or something has changed within the system that you do not know about. Considering the former. What has changed around Benalla in the recent past that might affect your reception? Is it a matter of atmospherics: Is anybody else using this band - maybe in Shepparton - experiencing similar problems? Considering the latter, start with the simplest things first - ie poor connections. Mal Bruce made some good suggestions here. Maybe you just have a replacement parts issue? Does your company have a reliable technician, to maintain/service the gear? If on the other hand you actually HAVE made one or more changes to the system, then you need to revisit those changes, and see if one (or a combination), are the cause of the problem . Good luck. Regards, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mark Goodley Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2014 8:33 AM To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Non Aviation Radio Communication Issue Hello All, As some of you know I work for the taxi company here in Benalla. We are having issues with our VHF radio's. Was just wondering if some of you with more knowledge than I could offer some advice ? The problem we are have is with receiving transmissions, a lot of static and a lot of times unreadable and yet transmission is fine. The radios run at 150.2 mHz. These issues are only over a distance of 3-5 km's. We use to get 15 k +. And have been getting worse over the last 6-12 months. Cheers Mark Goodley image002.gif___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam
On 7 April 2014 13:11, rolf a. buelter rbuel...@hotmail.com wrote: Didn't read quote thoroughly first time - $ 120.- is for 20 mm, $ 150.- same size but 25 mm, both plus GST plus postage handling. Rgds - Rolf _ From: rbuel...@hotmail.com To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] confor foam Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 15:08:32 +1000 Just got a quote from Specialty Foams, $ 120.- for a piece 500 mm X 1,000 mm plus postage handling. Forgot to ask colour or hardness though. Rgds - Rolf _ From: gstev...@bigpond.com To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 13:59:57 +1000 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam Yeah, Paul Remde of Cumulus Soaring makes exactly the same point on his web site about the hardness of the green (CF-47) foam. One other (practical) point. You can shape this stuff with a band-saw or jig-saw. An electric carving knife is extremely handy for applications where the other two saws won’t do, or won’t fit, eg like tapering the thickness. If you don’t have these tools – or can’t be bothered - maybe Speciality Foams in WA would shape the foam for you (at an extra cost), if you sent them a template of the shape you require. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ian Mc Phee Sent: Monday, 7 April 2014 1:08 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam Well explained Gary. Yes green is the most dense and have bought same from WA at John Vineys suggestion. In cold green can be a bit of a solid board. Mr demo is usually 1inch of blue (green works as well) on a brick wall and drive my fist with full strength and it never ever hurts. In confor it goes green, blue, pink, yellow or white. Only the first two pass my test if 1 inch thick. Yellow is too soft but may work if 2 inch thick.?? Aldi had such pads last week but it is only for comfort not for crash back protection I believe. I am yet to see a local foam product (except green from WA) meet my fist test thus order the correct product you have back insurance for LIFE for $50. Ian mcp (a baby with a helmet band arrangement of confor can fall head first one to cement floor without damage) On 07/04/2014 11:29 AM, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: These people get the foam in a large billet, and will cut you a piece to the size and thickness required. From memory, their price was NOT competitive, but that was years ago - maybe they now do a better deal? Confor is a brand name, and other manufacturers (in the USA), make similar products. Note the plural in products: As well as different thicknesses the foam is made in different densities, which are usually colour coded. For Confor, green is the way to go. I think the blue product that Ian refers to MAY be produced by another manufacturer. Ian?? To the best of my knowledge this type of foam is not manufactured in Australia. Can anybody prove me wrong/advise of an Australian manufacturer? I note that Cumulus Soaring in the States is also a retail supplier. GFA on its old web site had a useful discussion on the product, but I do not know if this information was carried across to the new site. Tim Shirley, do you know? As a matter of interest the impact absorbing foam (Confor etc), can be layered with other products too. I bought a layer of memory foam (as used for comfort on some wheel-chairs), but never got around to actually making it up and using it with the Confor in my glider cushion. Regards, Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of b_br...@tpg.com.au Sent: Monday, 7 April 2014 9:58 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam Doesn't necessarily need to come from the States, though I am not sure of their pricing. http://specialtyfoams.com.au Regs Ben On Mon, Apr 7th, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Ian Mc Phee mrsoar...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday at Chris Thorps GFA safety seminar at Archerfield I gave a demo of 1 inch blue confor memory foam. Some people there obviously did not know about confor foam and recently a friend of mine is a southern state was involved in a ground loop in ASK 13 caused by long grass catching one wing and other wing gaining extra lift and whole glider lifted in the air. He was dumped from about 1metre leaving him with injured back for 2 or so months. He knew nothing of confor foam' and did not have same. Glider was all but undamaged. Here is the link to confor foam http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/conForFoan.php?clickkey=5944 It does cost $US23.50 for BLUE PAD 1 inch think (is all you need for protection) and post per pad will be say $20 but that is minor
Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam
These people get the foam in a large billet, and will cut you a piece to the size and thickness required. From memory, their price was NOT competitive, but that was years ago - maybe they now do a better deal? Confor is a brand name, and other manufacturers (in the USA), make similar products. Note the plural in products: As well as different thicknesses the foam is made in different densities, which are usually colour coded. For Confor, green is the way to go. I think the blue product that Ian refers to MAY be produced by another manufacturer. Ian?? To the best of my knowledge this type of foam is not manufactured in Australia. Can anybody prove me wrong/advise of an Australian manufacturer? I note that Cumulus Soaring in the States is also a retail supplier. GFA on its old web site had a useful discussion on the product, but I do not know if this information was carried across to the new site. Tim Shirley, do you know? As a matter of interest the impact absorbing foam (Confor etc), can be layered with other products too. I bought a layer of memory foam (as used for comfort on some wheel-chairs), but never got around to actually making it up and using it with the Confor in my glider cushion. Regards, Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of b_br...@tpg.com.au Sent: Monday, 7 April 2014 9:58 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam Doesn't necessarily need to come from the States, though I am not sure of their pricing. http://specialtyfoams.com.au Regs Ben On Mon, Apr 7th, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Ian Mc Phee mrsoar...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday at Chris Thorps GFA safety seminar at Archerfield I gave a demo of 1 inch blue confor memory foam. Some people there obviously did not know about confor foam and recently a friend of mine is a southern state was involved in a ground loop in ASK 13 caused by long grass catching one wing and other wing gaining extra lift and whole glider lifted in the air. He was dumped from about 1metre leaving him with injured back for 2 or so months. He knew nothing of confor foam' and did not have same. Glider was all but undamaged. Here is the link to confor foam http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/conForFoan.php?clickkey=5944 It does cost $US23.50 for BLUE PAD 1 inch think (is all you need for protection) and post per pad will be say $20 but that is minor to injuries it may prevent. Personally I will not sign a form 2 unless the glider is equipped with confor foam or they get a long talk that they have to order it NOW. We wear seat belts in gliders and cars always so why not have confor in all gliders we fly and costs a lot less than a parachute and is equally important I believe. $50 is the cheapest one off insurance policy you will ever buy in gliding. If you want more proof go to the BGA web site for article on its use and the front cover will be a photo of a Swift glider crashing and pilot walks away. The video or is it a series of still photos of the crash. Thanks to Jenny Ganderton most of the gliders at Keepit have confor in almost all gliders. Personally I think GFA should mandate the use of confor instead of highly recommending it but at least that is a start.. Ian McPhee ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4355 / Virus Database: 3722/7309 - Release Date: 04/06/14 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam
Yeah, Paul Remde of Cumulus Soaring makes exactly the same point on his web site about the hardness of the green (CF-47) foam. One other (practical) point. You can shape this stuff with a band-saw or jig-saw. An electric carving knife is extremely handy for applications where the other two saws won't do, or won't fit, eg like tapering the thickness. If you don't have these tools - or can't be bothered - maybe Speciality Foams in WA would shape the foam for you (at an extra cost), if you sent them a template of the shape you require. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ian Mc Phee Sent: Monday, 7 April 2014 1:08 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam Well explained Gary. Yes green is the most dense and have bought same from WA at John Vineys suggestion. In cold green can be a bit of a solid board. Mr demo is usually 1inch of blue (green works as well) on a brick wall and drive my fist with full strength and it never ever hurts. In confor it goes green, blue, pink, yellow or white. Only the first two pass my test if 1 inch thick. Yellow is too soft but may work if 2 inch thick.?? Aldi had such pads last week but it is only for comfort not for crash back protection I believe. I am yet to see a local foam product (except green from WA) meet my fist test thus order the correct product you have back insurance for LIFE for $50. Ian mcp (a baby with a helmet band arrangement of confor can fall head first one to cement floor without damage) On 07/04/2014 11:29 AM, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: These people get the foam in a large billet, and will cut you a piece to the size and thickness required. From memory, their price was NOT competitive, but that was years ago - maybe they now do a better deal? Confor is a brand name, and other manufacturers (in the USA), make similar products. Note the plural in products: As well as different thicknesses the foam is made in different densities, which are usually colour coded. For Confor, green is the way to go. I think the blue product that Ian refers to MAY be produced by another manufacturer. Ian?? To the best of my knowledge this type of foam is not manufactured in Australia. Can anybody prove me wrong/advise of an Australian manufacturer? I note that Cumulus Soaring in the States is also a retail supplier. GFA on its old web site had a useful discussion on the product, but I do not know if this information was carried across to the new site. Tim Shirley, do you know? As a matter of interest the impact absorbing foam (Confor etc), can be layered with other products too. I bought a layer of memory foam (as used for comfort on some wheel-chairs), but never got around to actually making it up and using it with the Confor in my glider cushion. Regards, Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of b_br...@tpg.com.au Sent: Monday, 7 April 2014 9:58 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam Doesn't necessarily need to come from the States, though I am not sure of their pricing. http://specialtyfoams.com.au Regs Ben On Mon, Apr 7th, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Ian Mc Phee mrsoar...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday at Chris Thorps GFA safety seminar at Archerfield I gave a demo of 1 inch blue confor memory foam. Some people there obviously did not know about confor foam and recently a friend of mine is a southern state was involved in a ground loop in ASK 13 caused by long grass catching one wing and other wing gaining extra lift and whole glider lifted in the air. He was dumped from about 1metre leaving him with injured back for 2 or so months. He knew nothing of confor foam' and did not have same. Glider was all but undamaged. Here is the link to confor foam http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/conForFoan.php?clickkey=5944 It does cost $US23.50 for BLUE PAD 1 inch think (is all you need for protection) and post per pad will be say $20 but that is minor to injuries it may prevent. Personally I will not sign a form 2 unless the glider is equipped with confor foam or they get a long talk that they have to order it NOW. We wear seat belts in gliders and cars always so why not have confor in all gliders we fly and costs a lot less than a parachute and is equally important I believe. $50 is the cheapest one off insurance policy you will ever buy in gliding. If you want more proof go to the BGA web site for article on its use and the front cover will be a photo of a Swift glider crashing and pilot walks away. The video or is it a series of still photos of the crash. Thanks to Jenny Ganderton most of the gliders
Re: [Aus-soaring] Indoor clouds
Was that FRUCTOSE or fruit-cake? Not much lift under these clouds! Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Sunday, 30 March 2014 4:46 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Indoor clouds http://hifructose.com/2014/01/05/indoor-clouds-created-by-berndnaut-smilde/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Woodstock weak link
Hallo Chris, Strongly suggest that you contact the people at Bendigo as per my earlier email advice. Mal and Peter will be able to tell you more than you ever want to know about this type – THEY ARE POSSIBLY THE WORLD EXPERTS on this type! As a small aside, their two Woodstock’s have been winch launching for years! Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Wednesday, 12 March 2014 10:37 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Woodstock weak link Thanks Graham. I am on top of most of that and have more. It is probably 300 kg (green) but I have to have documentary proof before I placard it. A/T only, winch not allowed. have also started a bit of conflict between Burns CTO re record keeping. Paper trail on this A/C is abysmal. Mike supervised the first 4 built. Any thoughts on the ASK 21 weak link? Emailed Balaklava GC today as that is the only other club that winches an ASK 21 Chris From: Graham White mailto:anita_grah...@bigpond.com Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:23 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Woodstock weak link Hi Chris I can’t find anything either. Re. the deflections, I have only the ailerons (32deg UP, 8deg DOWN) and the elevator (20deg UP, no info for down). No rudder deflections and certainly no weak link. The plans and the construction notes are available on the web, but I guess you know that already. There was one built in Australia when Mike Burns was CTO Airworthiness (about 1987 or so) so he may have some recollections of the technical information for that aircraft. All the best Graham _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Tuesday, 11 March 2014 2:05 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Woodstock weak link Hi all, I have tried to find out what the Woodstock aerotow weak link should be but cannot find anything. There is no woodstock in the GFA data sheets either. I hope somebody can help. Regards Chris _ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Woodstock weak link
Thanks Dennis. Re PR's Woodstock, you may be correct, but The Question then is : In a winch launch only club how else do you get your Woodstock into the air? Apart from the club winches, I know that Peter built a single drum reflex launch winch (using rope for the cable), quite some time ago. Do you know if this has been used? Maybe you could contact Peter on these questions - I do not have his contact details - and let us know. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of dennis hipperson Sent: Thursday, 13 March 2014 12:12 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Woodstock weak link Gary, Mal's is not a standard Woodstock it is 15m wingspan and has been winched, Peter does not winch launch his.AFAIK Cheers, Dennis On 12/03/14 10:58 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: Hallo Chris, Strongly suggest that you contact the people at Bendigo as per my earlier email advice. Mal and Peter will be able to tell you more than you ever want to know about this type - THEY ARE POSSIBLY THE WORLD EXPERTS on this type! As a small aside, their two Woodstock's have been winch launching for years! Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Wednesday, 12 March 2014 10:37 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Woodstock weak link Thanks Graham. I am on top of most of that and have more. It is probably 300 kg (green) but I have to have documentary proof before I placard it. A/T only, winch not allowed. have also started a bit of conflict between Burns CTO re record keeping. Paper trail on this A/C is abysmal. Mike supervised the first 4 built. Any thoughts on the ASK 21 weak link? Emailed Balaklava GC today as that is the only other club that winches an ASK 21 Chris From: Graham mailto:anita_grah...@bigpond.com White Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:23 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Woodstock weak link Hi Chris I can't find anything either. Re. the deflections, I have only the ailerons (32deg UP, 8deg DOWN) and the elevator (20deg UP, no info for down). No rudder deflections and certainly no weak link. The plans and the construction notes are available on the web, but I guess you know that already. There was one built in Australia when Mike Burns was CTO Airworthiness (about 1987 or so) so he may have some recollections of the technical information for that aircraft. All the best Graham _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Tuesday, 11 March 2014 2:05 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Woodstock weak link Hi all, I have tried to find out what the Woodstock aerotow weak link should be but cannot find anything. There is no woodstock in the GFA data sheets either. I hope somebody can help. Regards Chris _ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Hand Held Radio Battery
Hi Erich, Greetings! Hope you and the nipper are well. You have supplied some very good information. Regarding the rest of your email: YES ... if you want to maximize the life of the batteries ... you really do need a smart charger to charge your SLA (gel cell) batteries. The charger you showed in your post is almost certainly OK, but I have no idea what is BEST. Technically, you would need to draw up a specification to match your exact needs, and then see what matches it. [Of course I fully understand that when it comes to writing Specifications, in many cases the exact opposite occurs: Find a product that MIGHT do the job, and then write the specification to match that product description! ..A regular procedure in the 3rd world, especially if (large sums of), money change hands. Funny about that good match! Of course such practices would never happen in OZ, and in particular in Australian Tertiary Education Centres . would they? ] Ross is keeping away from batteries being sold from China. I have no experience of this, but modeller friends, use Hobby King -based in Hong Kong - extensively, with good results. If you want to go down the home-build route for your charger, you might want to have a look at a kit. Altronics - Perth based, but now with many outlets - puts out a kit No K1685. This can be built either as a 12V or a 6 V system by changing a few components, all of which are supplied so that at the end of the day you will have a few spare parts. I suspect that the design comes from the Silicon Chip Magazine people, so you can check out their site too, if interested in best parameters. I have not checked, but no doubt Altronics can supply you with an adequate kit to build a useable SLA battery tester too! However if you are regularly doing 10 or more hours in a single flight, without battery depletion problems, then I suggest that you do not need a battery tester. Battery technology is currently changing rapidly. There has been relatively recent extensive discussion on this site, and I refer you to the archives, for that mass of information. It is very apparent that what is cutting edge today, will be very shortly supplanted by something else tomorrow! On p 64 of the March/April edition of Gliding International there is a note re Alternative for Lithium Batteries where experiments are being done at Virginia Tech in which sugar is being used to charge mini fuel cells, with the ultimate aim of producing a biodegradable, high energy density, low price, battery. Hmmm! I use very ordinary SLA batteries (2No 7Ah in parallel, with a 7Ah back-up tail battery), in my glider, and at this point in time see no reason to change to something more exotic: Much more expensive, and potentially much more hazardous. However if you have a battery weight problem then go for it. Did I mention that I had a failure of ALL my (very old), batteries at the same time in an October 2013 flight? Very interesting: Sh*t happens! So much for back-up! (Note: The mechanical Sage vario worked OK.) All these batteries were replaced via 2 local eBay sources, both of which provided a 12 mth warranty on their high quality, brand-name product: Incredibly cheap, about $60 total - including free freight in both cases. Absolutely no problems to date, and I would expect 4 - maybe 10 years tops, life from these batteries, with maybe 400 full recharges in that time period. Regards, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Erich Wittstock Sent: Tuesday, 11 March 2014 3:25 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Hand Held Radio Battery First up the fishing rod: ..it is 2014 After a long debate - they did put the internet on computers. ;-) There is a handy search engine that works in a web browser - it is called Google. can be found at: http://www.google.com.au type in FNB-64 into the search. and on the first page you will find something like https://www.google.com.au/search?q=FNB-64.ie=utf-8oe=utf-8rls=org.mozill a:en-US:officialclient=firefox-achannel=rcsgfe_rd=ctrlei=GIkeU_j5Ds_C8gf qoYG4Cggws_rd=cr#channel=rcscr=countryAUq=FNB-64.rls=org.mozilla:en-US:o fficialsafe=offtbs=ctr:countryAU this. ..and https://www.master-instruments.com.au/products/57686/TWB-FNBV57H.html here is a fish. You could get really adventurous and do a search on Ebay http://www.ebay.com.au/ and get a result such http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Two-way-Radio-Battery-Replacement-for-Standa rd-FNB-64-FNB-83-/160942976753?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Antennashash=item2578f2eef1 as this. And now let's make this thread a bit more interesting: I would like to find out about the Ebay experience of the people on this mailing list with purchases such as batteries for hand held radios? And: what are people using to charge their SLA glider batteries (what is the BEST charger?) Do I really
Re: [Aus-soaring] Woodstock weak link
Send an email request to the Bendigo Gliding Club, marked to the attention of Mal Bennet, and I am sure you will get your answer. Phone the club on a weekend if you are really desperate. All contact details are on the GFA web site. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Tuesday, 11 March 2014 1:05 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Woodstock weak link Hi all, I have tried to find out what the Woodstock aerotow weak link should be but cannot find anything. There is no woodstock in the GFA data sheets either. I hope somebody can help. Regards Chris ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] HVGC will be 50 this Easter
Hi Stephen, On the evidence you have presented, it would seem that your conclusion -an exaggeration - is probably correct. The 50 hrs 15 m FAI record for a sailplane would seem to be definitive. Here is a further thought to mull upon: No doubt organizations such as the CIA, KGB, and similar, have factual data on the effects of sleep [and other sensory ] deprivation, and what the record sleep deprivation duration is! However in the nature of things, most of their data is unlikely to be in the public domain! Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of stephenk Sent: Wednesday, 26 February 2014 12:01 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] HVGC will be 50 this Easter Very Interesting. A Mrs Elaine Henderson (Billie Spiller) held some Australian female duration records up to the end of the second world war: http://www.glidingcaboolture.org.au/gq60/1936_slope_soaring_coorabel_range.h tm http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/98299090 they were comparatively short but she might be a candidate for the record holder. But, In 1952 the single seat world record was 56:15: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_endurance_record#Glider The FAI website also shows a two seater flight of 57:10 in April 1954. I believe duration tasks were discontinued shortly after that (too dangerous) 90 hours is more than 3 1/2 days (!). I think the prospectus is an exageration, but would be happy to be proved wrong. Regards SWK On 25/02/2014 8:23 PM, Paul Dickson wrote: ... Does anyone know who was the Australian girl mentioned in the prospectus that held the duration record of 90hrs in 1964? ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] The nationals: a proposal
Hi All, Some interesting comments from Matthew. His comment in the first paragraph re Tocumwal, is actually a very good reason supporting the use of allocated start points. With 2/3rds of the points out, what we have is 1/3 usable. EVERY pilot still has one start point available in the soarable part of the start area. This is adequate. Contrast this to the hypothetical situation where the one and only (per class) start line has been set up in the unsoarable part of the sky. In the nature of the beast, it is somewhat unlikely that increasing the length of a start line from 10k to 20 k is going to improve safety very much, if at all. Multiple class pre-start gaggling can be minimized with well set tasks, in which it is essential (if the task is to be completed), for each class to get going soon after the opening of their gate. The trend to under-set tasks at Australian competitions continues. Comments in the last two paragraphs are noted. Here is an idea that to my knowledge has NOT been thrown into the ring to date. The idea is to use allocated multiple start lines, with a possible length of say 2-5k. I have not really thought about all the possible ramifications, and whether or not it would actually achieve anything positive, but perhaps it is at least worth considering. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Matthew Scutter Sent: Friday, 14 February 2014 12:06 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] The nationals: a proposal A few points: Despite popular belief, team flying is disallowed or doesn't happen in most European national competitions. I've heard of multiple start points being tried in some places (WGC2010?) but it hasn't stuck. It seems it only takes one day where pilots on one set of start points are disadvantaged and everyone is up in arms and wants start lines back - like after the nationals at Tocumwal with essentially unsoarable weather covering 2/3rds of the start points. I'm not convinced that multiple start points are safer than start lines - with multiple start points I found myself thermalling with vastly different span/wing loading gliders prestart, whereaa with distinctly separate start lines such as those set at Kingaroy and Waikerie it'd be with comparable gliders with similar circling speeds and diameters - if at all, on a 10km start line there were usually multiple potentially optimal locations. If we want to reduce gaggling we could even increase the line length - some european comps fly with 20k. I agree that gaggles are a high risk sitdayson but I remain unconvinced that the formation is any less frequent with start points than start lines - I remember the balls of glass forming on the blue days just as readily at Benalla (last nationals with multiple points) as Waikerie/Kingaroy. There'd be an enormous prestart gaggle, everyone would leave on diverging headings for their start points then reconvene in the first thermal on track. It was essentially the same as we have now but with a randomly selected group of pilots being forced to start a bit lower than everyone else each day. I welcome comments from those who've flown many more competitions than I with both start systems. The reality of the situation is that in weak and inconsistent conditions, it's much slower/riskier to fly alone than with a gaggle and unless you find a way to change the incentives that drive this, on the low, weak, blue days there will be gaggling. All of the ways that I can think of (everybody has a different task, everybody has a different start time) have a substantial impact on fairness such that the day would better be cancelled. On 13 Feb 2014 22:11, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi All, Harry has given us some good information here, which should be of special interest to newer competition pilots. I am somewhat at loss as to why Harry made comment in his last paragraph on team flying. Team flying is OUT in Australian National Competitions, and Ross McLean in a very recent post on this site explained exactly why. Harry gave a brief comment on Start Line (as currently used), as opposed to Start Circle, and as I see it, voted for the start circle. Perhaps Harry might like add some extra comment here? From my now EXTENSIVE experience of using a start line, I can say that the reality is that it would seem that in a majority of circumstances the actual start method does not really matter that much. However note my use of the words SEEM MAJORITY. As Harry pointed out, there are exceptions, and there is not the slightest doubt, that safety is compromised, in these exceptions. The Europeans love start lines ( despite all its potential hazards), because European pilots mostly team fly, and using a start line makes the start easier for a team. It is my understanding that Australia pioneered the use
Re: [Aus-soaring] The nationals: a proposal
Hi Ross, In general, a great and considered overview of the situation, and I certainly concur with the majority of your views. Re Having just one big nationals : We have just concluded the Sports Nationals at Waikerie, where the gliders in that (unlimited), class were able to use water ballast. For whatever the reason, it was conclusively demonstrated that your conclusion in the 2nd last paragraph was NOT in fact the reality of the matter. If this surprised you, let me say I too found the reality somewhat unexpected. Conditions ranged from very strong to extremely weak and yet the 15m span ships prevailed. It would appear that pilot ability can overcome theoretical disadvantages. Comments? Regards, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ross McLean Sent: Sunday, 2 February 2014 7:27 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Cc: go_soar...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] The nationals: a proposal Hi Adam Firstly, congratulations on asking the hard questions. You have clearly put some thought into it and you are passionate about your sport. I will be very interested to hear/see other pilots point of view on your suggestions. My opinion differs from yours however, but nothing in this email should be construed as criticism of or disagreement with your ideas but simply as my personal point of view and I strongly encourage you to continue thinking outside the box on these ideas. As a current Standard Class Nationals competitor and former Chair of the NCC, I have grappled with a number of the points you raise and have discussed a number of the solutions you propose with both the NCC and Sports Committee members during my past tenure and so I hope to be able to clearly express an informed view for you. Just to get some perspective on how the GFA funding should be spent. First thing to say is that the GFA exists to serve the entire gliding community in Australia. It is this broad community who pay the bulk of the money that funds the GFA. Of this broad community there are a minority who choose to participate in Gliding Competitions. These competitors pay an additional levy to GFA (part of the competition fee) which goes to support the International Competitors and usually there is an additional cost to competitors to pay for enough tugs to arrive to run the comp effectively. Of this minority of gliding competitors there is quite a small group that are eligible/interested/able to compete Internationally. Of the entire GFA community there are only about ten or 12 competitors selected to compete internationally. National Gliding Competitions and International Teams Selection: The National Gliding Competitions are held each year in order to establish who are the best *competition glider pilots* in the country. These competitions have nothing at all to do with International Team Selection. Coincidentally, at the moment the ITC does however use the results from these competitions as a convenient benchmark to assist in selecting the International Teams. Gliding in Australia is oversubscribed with competitions: Hooray!! It is no coincidence that the competition scene has grown from being almost non-existent a few short years ago, to now being almost oversubscribed (a very healthy and good situation). The introduction of handicaps and the honing of the rules to eliminate inequities and set a level playing field, along with a strong push for formal Cross Country Coaching and encouraging the Junior Gliding movement, has resulted in the current very healthy competition scene. Pair Flying at National Championships: The idea of implementing rules and processes into the National Competitions that are focussed solely on team selection or pair flying training has been discussed for many years and is not supported at all by the greater competition pilot community and rightly so. Of the 52 weeks of each year there are only two weeks that do not allow pair flying, they are the two weeks of National Competition. The competitions do not exist to serve the needs of the dozen or so elite International Competitors and nor should they. Combining Classes: The 15m Racing Class and the Open Class have long been the least well represented classes. I personally think this is a great shame and don't really understand why that is the case. When competition organisers are forced to combine 15m and Standard and 18m and Open, nobody is really happy about it. It is not a solution which will see those two classes grow in their own right. In fact quite the opposite. The 15m flapped guys don't like being whipped by unflapped LS8's as occurred at the Kingaroy MultiClass Nationals and the Open Class guys hate getting whipped by the 18m gliders, but it is the inevitable outcome when you combine these classes in Australia. There are two ways in which the current situation can be
Re: [Aus-soaring] WA State Comps
Found some form ??? Bloody hell! Congratulations, and well done (yet again), Greg. Congrats too to Norm and Daryl. I would like to meet up and fly with/against Daryl one day, but it is almost certain that this will not be in WA. Daryl, can you get across to the east sometime? John Orton is currently doing it , and having a good time - I think! Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Don Woodward Sent: Saturday, 18 January 2014 8:57 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] WA State Comps Congratulations Greg Beecroft on winning the WA state comps yesterday. He's found some form this season! Well done Greg. Congrats to Norm Bloch 2nd and Daryl Mackay 3rd. DW ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] World Record Claim - Lisa Trotter
Hi Pam,
I echo Rob's sentiments re your good work. Thanks too for your update on the
20 m class.
I tend to agree with you re abolishing the 1000 m gap. If this rule is
adopted it will certainly increase pilot load, without really achieving
much. We already have a level playing field sort of! {Groan}
Congratulations to Lisa on a milestone flight and certainly a PB.
This season is certainly shaping up as one to be remembered (for all the
right reasons), by many Oz pilots.
Gary
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Pam
Sent: Monday, 23 December 2013 2:29 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: [Aus-soaring] World Record Claim - Lisa Trotter
Lisa Trotter flew an FAI 1000km triangle on 21/12/2013 in an LS8 / 15m from
Tocumwal. From preliminary analysis, the Triangle Distance is 1026.80 km,
and the speed 102.73 kph.
This flight will result in one World Feminine Record Claim, several
Continental Record Claims both General and Feminine, and several Australian
National Records both general and feminine.
I will post a full list of the records claims as soon as I have them ready.
Pam
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Petition to remove ASIC
Hi all, From hard experience, I will mention an aspect of flopping onto an airfield (especially late in the day), that has nothing to do with holding or not holding an ASIC. What is certain in this scenario is that nobody will be about on (or even near), the aerodrome, and the aerodrome will be locked up – perhaps not quite as tight as Fort Knox – but locked up nevertheless. You can’t get out, and your crew cannot get in! I leave it to your imagination and your criminal ingenuity as to how you might cope with this. Let me assure the sceptical that (for many reasons) this is a somewhat different scenario to landing in a locked farmer’s paddock. I suggest that landing in an adjacent paddock to the airfield is a far better option than landing on the airfield, all other things being equal. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of John McFarlane Sent: Sunday, 22 December 2013 10:08 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Petition to remove ASIC There is no penalty for flopping there – you are free to use the Aerodrome if it is a requirement to land there. Of course some charges may apply, but without an engine it could be argued it was an emergency and they may be waivered J ASIC’s were never intended to invoke in an Operator a “Pause” for consideration, under any level of reasonable duress, wether to use the aerodrome or land in the paddock next to it due to not having an ASIC – However given the attitudes of most of the Dill’s tasked with upholding the law the Paddock is probably: a. More convenient b. A carton of Beer to the land owner, cheaper than across the road. c. No Taxi surcharge applied. Mostly everyone is allowed to operate from a security controlled airport, without an ASIC, with prior arrangement, notwithstanding other operational caveats – Controlled airspace etc. I’m pretty confident all the drivers of those N registered Gulfstream’s and Challengers aren’t wearing an ASIC – I wonder what the reciprocal document is…… In fact how do all the “international” Business Jets handle this – it would be an interesting line of questioning in regards to the whole ASIC issue. What’s good for the Gander should surely be good for the Goose. As for fines levied by Gov – 500 or 5000. If flopping in due to operational requirements, probably none. However to come back without an ASIC and attempt to operate from there then 5K it is, if anyone cares. Cheers John From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Sunday, 22 December 2013 12:05 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Petition to remove ASIC What are the penalties/sanctions if you flop on a RPT aerodrome in a non motorised glider because the day dies for example. I ask only out of curiosity and laziness to research. From: mailto:p...@mander.net.au Paul Mander Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:21 AM To: mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Petition to remove ASIC Hi Bob, seems it was a Phurhpy. Here is the latest from our CFI: I have researched the issues behind the petition re ASIC cards and am now understand what it behind this. Firstly, as Paul Mander pointed out I was not clear in my previous note. We do not have an exemption from the ASIC card but we do have an exemption from the AVID card. The ASIC card allows access to security areas in airfields. The AVID card is part of a power licence and is a security clearance for a pilot. This proposal effectively asks to replace the ASIC card with the AVID card – which could have raised the issue that we have an exemption from the AVID card. To cut a long story short this proposal does not create the problems I was concerned about and is benign. So by all means respond and add your name to the list. Apologies for making this matter complex but there was a possibility that this would create problems for us. All clear now? Happy Christmas, Paul From: mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Bob Ward Sent: Friday, 20 December 2013 7:05 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Petition to remove ASIC Paul, What does he mean that Sports aviation pilots do not require an ASIC ? When I land my RV7A at any RPT serviced airport, I certainly require an ASIC. When Pam and Gerrit recently used several RPT serviced airports on the way to Burketown and return, I understand that they
Re: [Aus-soaring] Records in 20 m 2-seater class
Hi Pam, As a matter of interest, I would appreciate you giving us the fine detail here. For example, exactly WHO did the review, and why a review was thought necessary. Can you please tell us the process of how we now have arrived at a more realistic estimate. What has changed (and WHY) re the Australian Standard Class records (from 12 months ago), that was initially used as a base. Why were these used as a base anyway? Sorry, we (Grampians Soaring Club), do not run to anything like a Duo Discus (or a DG 1000), but we do have a Janus that once held the World Distance Record. Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Pam Sent: Saturday, 21 December 2013 9:42 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Records in 20 m 2-seater class The Minimum Performances required to set Australian records in the 20m 2-seater class have been reviewed and are now considerably easier to achieve. The new list has been posted on the GFA website. When the class was introduced a year ago, the Minimum Performances were set based on the existing Australian Standard Class records at the time. Following two National Championships in this class, we have been able to make a more realistic estimate of what performances may be expected. So, polish up the club's Duo Discus and have a go! Pam Kurstjens ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Petition to remove ASIC
Mal, Some good relevant information there to think about! Great story. Nice to see that you had a win in Adelaide! Regards, Gary PS Just incidentally, and maybe it could be the start of a whole new thread on this site - I cannot recall any prior mention of it here - how do you guys view the use of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UMV), as a threat to security in the current set-up? I offer the following two thoughts as starters: Outside of total nuclear destruction, UMV's are the most dangerous development that has EVER happened on this planet. In the beginning there was Prometheus. -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mal Bruce Sent: Friday, 20 December 2013 8:50 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Petition to remove ASIC ASIC at $200.50 is expensive in comparison. Opens Cabling Licence old AUSTEL $84.50 every three years. CPR first aid every 2 or 3 years $120.00 Certificate Skid Steer Loader Excavator $1200.00 once off Certificate I in Construction (Whitecard WA NSW) $70 each once off NSW Snow Drivers Licence $200.00 once off Authorised Bus Driver GP3557 $70.00 every three years plus medical. WWC0157205E working with children check $80.00 every four years HR Drivers Licence $81.00 5 years its half price due no point loss. Fireams licence $100.00 5 years Pilots Licence Medical two years depends on age and level of licence and medical condition $200.00 to $400.00 A security guard in Adelaide tried to ASIC check us I asked him if he was and Aviation security inspector he shoved his security licence in my face I happily told him it had expired and walked off laughing. Check the checkers. ask for their identification check the date. Also check the photo. http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2013C00204/Html/Text#_Toc353975553 Part 5—Powers of officials Division 5.1—Aviation security inspectors 5.01 Identity cards (1) For subsection 78(2) of the Act, the requirements as to the form of an identity card are as follows: (a) the card must set out the holder’s full name; (b) the card must bear a recent photograph of the holder; (c) the card must bear a statement to the effect that the holder is an aviation security inspector for the purposes of Part 5 of the Act and this Part; (d) the card must bear the signatures of the holder and the Secretary. (2) If a person representing or apparently representing an aviation industry participant so requests, an aviation security inspector must show his or her identity card to the person. Penalty: 5 penalty units. (3) A person who ceases to be an aviation security inspector must return his or her identity card to the Secretary within 7 days. Penalty: 5 penalty units. (4) Before an aviation security inspector exercises any power under these Regulations (other than regulation 7.08) in relation to a person, the inspector must show his or her identity card to the person. Penalty: 5 penalty units. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] integral wing water tanks
Yes, Chris's last paragraph is VERY relevant. Try to avoid making access holes anywhere near the main spar. I don't know how they build Astir wings, but if the designer used spar caps and a web, then obviously there will be additional layers of glass in this area to hold everything together: Not an area to penetrate, with a random hole or two! Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Chris Runeckles Sent: Monday, 28 October 2013 11:40 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] integral wing water tanks Stuart As John says above, don't get conned into sloshing the leaky tanks, as that solution is temporary at best, as the resin used for sloshing will not bond to the tank due to dirt and contamination inside the tanks. As Mike says opening the tank, cleaning and sealing the tank is the only correct method. One trick you can try on an Astir is to put a little pressure on the tank (125 mm water gauge, the same as AD 165) and use soapy water and try and find the leak, Astir tanks are not very long and I have found one leak on the end rib around the front drag pin mounting, which had become porous some how., or use the trick Mike suggests with the water and stethoscope , you can usually locate the area of the leak with in a 100 mm radius. If you manage to find the leak, open up the tank with a oval hole just big enough to get your hand in , clean the tank thoroughly with scrubbing brush, wire brush, or what ever it takes to clean the scale etc out, wipe thoroughly with acetone, stay away from any areas that have polystyrene though,(Astirs are OK, mainly cirrus.) with chemicals that might dissolve the Styrofoam as some manufactures use this in fillets etc. or on the leading edge as seal the wing halves before joining. then paint liberally with http://www.duram.com.au/productdetail_var11var21var33 Duram 195 - Liquid Polyurethane Waterproofing Membrane, as far as you can get around the opening , but keep a little area around the cut hole clean with masking tape so a joggle can be fitted after the sealer has set which takes a couple of days , don't forget to seal the back of the joggle with the Duram, glue in the joggle and conduct a standard repair and close up the wing. I have never failed to fix a tank by this method, but it is time consuming and messy, expensive if not a labour of love ! I fixed a standard Cirrus once that took 6 holes per wing as I sealed the whole tank, and there are baffles in the tank which means holes each side of the baffles ! Also the obvious must be said, that you are putting holes in the D box in the wing, which is a structural repair, and should only be tackled by a authorised repairer with a Major repair rating in FRP. Kind Regards Chris Runeckles On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 6:32 AM, John Orton johno...@gmail.com wrote: Stuart et al, Mike is right. I have seen the inside of tanks where they tried to seal them by pouring in a resin mix to coat the inside andget it to seal. It was a mess with sheets of resin peeling away from the inside skin. I have leak detected several tanks using the method Mike describes and found that often the leak is in a corner at the end of the tank or where there is a baffle attached to the skin i.e. at a discontinuity. Regards, John Orton On 28 October 2013 06:04, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Stuart, The only rally satisfactory way I have heard of is the method invented in WA many years ago. Put a little water in the tank, put a little suction on it and listen for the air bubbles with a stethoscope. You need to roll the wing around to to get the water over the leak. Then use a hole saw, cut a hole and do a standard repair. Nowadays you may be able to put a little camera in the tank with a light to see what needs doing through a smaller hole first. Mike At 09:12 PM 27/10/2013, you wrote: Hi all, Can anybody recommend a product and method to seal an integral wing tank in an Astir cs. Cheers Stuart ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 tel:%2B61-42835%205784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] OLC Map wanted of heaviestsailplane over longestdistance
Michael, In your pondering, you have not got that last paragraph musings quite right. IMO, your statement SHOULD read (I will take my sailplane out for a SOARING flight). You mentioned the nice alliteration of Gimli Glider. Yes I do agree: It does have a nice ring about it. In Solly's case I suggest that the alliteration can be VERY easily maintained. Following loss of power, both the airborne and waterborne aspects of his adventure can be very nicely summarised by the following 2 words: Sullenberger's Sinker. Do you reckon that they trapped any fish in the hull, to put on the celebration BBQ? OK, I give up. What is TPFIC? Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Texler, Michael Sent: Friday, 20 September 2013 6:14 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] OLC Map wanted of heaviestsailplane over longestdistance Not exactly a sailplane either. The space shuttle is a glider though. (But anything with the thrust turned off is technically gliding, i.e. Gimli Glider wasn't called the Gimli Sailplane though. Perhaps the alliteration of the g sound rolls nicer off the tongue. But then why wasn't it called Sullenberger's Sailplane when he landed in the Hudson...) Ponders question, What is the difference between a sailplane and a glider? Could it be that a sailplane is defined by the intention for it being used for gliding flight from the beginning of the flight (I will take my sailplane out for a gliding flight), whereas any powered after can accidently or intentionally become a glider when the thrust is turned off (Oh poop, my engine(s) failed, I have become a glider). TPFIC ;-) ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3408 / Virus Database: 3222/6682 - Release Date: 09/19/13 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] On Entering Competitions
Dear All, Preamble Discussion on Pilot Qualifications at a competition has been tossed about almost ad nauseam on this web site. Let me say that at a Nationals level they are currently quite unambiguously defined in Clause 13.1 and 13.2 of the National Rules V2.5 Sep 2013. (Thanks Mandy). Further, clause 13.3 quite clearly gives the CD discretion to waiver these requirements under defined circumstances. It has already been said that State rules tend to follow the national rules. However they can (and rightly do), differ in places. All the essential reasons for these differences have also been given in the foregoing discussion. * I agree with everything that Tim said in his post, especially; 1. Match fitness which most definitely includes physical fitness, and psychological fitness. 2. just fly, fly, fly ... There is absolutely no substitute in the game for just doing it. Paul Mander very recently gave you Sebastian Kawas viewpoint about improving your competition flying skills, which is basically similar to point 2 above fly lots of competitions. However competition flying is by no means the only type of flying that pilots do, so see below my note on flying at the beginning and end of the day. Just for the sake of the argument, let me put an alternative viewpoint to Tims statement ...forces you not to be lazy At a competition or regatta a well oiled team is set up which does huge amounts of work this means that YOU do not have to do it! · You do not have to puzzle over the weather the organization supplies a met man who will not only present the weather information, but interpret it too. · You do not have to work out a task for the day unless you are nominated to the task selection committee. You should view this as an opportunity to influence outcomes if you are experienced, and as an important learning experience if you are newish to competition flying. · You do not have to work out a launch time just grid up. · You do not have to organise a tug, tug pilot, wing runner etc, or maybe a winch team to launch you it all just happens, gee, golly, gosh! · There are usually lots of people around, so it is relatively easy to line up a retrieve crew, to come and get you in the event of an outlanding. Hint :Think I will scratch your back if you scratch mine. · You will get fed on site at the end of the day, and usually lunch and breakfast can be provided too. HOWEVER PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU DO HAVE TO MAKE THE EFFORT TO GET TO THE COMPETION. Another point to keep in mind results from the intrinsic nature of a modern gliding competition: It is this - you will be doing the actual racing (the task), in the eye of the day unless you and the task setters got it badly wrong. In the bigger picture, this is not a good thing it is highly desirable to have (and use), the skills necessary to fly competently at the very beginning and at the very end of the day too. However please keep in mind that it does take a substantial amount of time to marshal and launch up to say 60 gliders on the one day. This is the accepted reality, the upshot of which is that it can make some things relatively easier for the pilot at a competition. As to the additional skills, you can develop them with your own dedicated practice. Just one further thing, which SHOULD be self evident, is that flying a glider in a competition is NOT like flying a power plane, and it is NOT like having a lazy fly around at the home airfield either. I can remember a time many years ago now, when an experienced airline pilot who had very little time in gliders, rocked up to a (State) competition, and was VERY miffed when the Safety Officer (acting for the CD), declined to accept his entry which BTW was made on the day. He was rejected on the basis that he did not have enough gliding experience, and was a potential hazard to himself and all the other pilots. Yes, this pilot had picked up the physical piloting skills in an hour or two, but he had no real experience of the gliding environment, let alone the competition gliding environment. I dont think this pilot ever came back to the sport, and in my opinion, that was a bloody good thing. He was not prepared to accept the umpires decision and go away and get more glider time and experience (and get those nominated competition entry pre-requisites), and then come back and have another go. It was quite apparent that he had a completely wrong mind-set, and I have no doubt (especially with hindsight), that the Safety Officer made the right call. To put this story in perspective, this is the only occasion where I have ever come across or heard such a case. Normally all the checks and balances, starting with the Letter from the Club CFI regarding a pilots competency, comes into play, before we get
Re: [Aus-soaring] National Rules
Thanks Mandy. Maybe you can save me a troll through the document. I am almost certain there is a note on the Kingaroy Nationals web site that intimated glider insurance requirements had changed, and left it at that. Extremely unsatisfactory! Can you please give me a definitive answer on WHAT has changed regarding competition insurance ... if anything! To stretch the friendship a bit, can you please summarise the rule changes from last season... if there have been any changes, and the relevant clause numbers? I am appreciative of your earlier advice, that some rumoured changes will not happen this season, if at all. I agree with you entirely that any such proposals require exhaustive consideration and debate at the relevant Pilots meetings. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mandy Temple Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2013 10:03 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] State Comp Required Pilot Qualifications The rules are on the GFA website in Sports Documents The 2013 Version is V2.5 Document 10 https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzvOakkAvohCbDl4ZTgzQnI5SnM https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzvOakkAvohCbDl4ZTgzQnI5SnMusp=sha ringtid=0BzvOakkAvohCZGozSnRsQlNGeHM usp=sharingtid=0BzvOakkAvohCZGozSnRsQlNGeHM Mandy From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2013 8:57 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] State Comp Required Pilot Qualifications And when are we going to get the rules and the turnpoints for the Nats at Kingaroy?? On 11 September 2013 18:41, Ian Mc Phee mrsoar...@gmail.com wrote: John T - it really is crap. Surely several 300km flights would out weigh the 5hr requirement. Can remember doing 8 3/4 hrs in a skylark4 trying for my 500km so come 2days before comps and try for 500km . The important thing is in a state comps you are not going to get shot down day after day. I would suggest you put in a case and ask the powers that be. Actually I can tell you there are several pilots in comps that have not claimed badges yet are flying comps regularly. I best not name them. Just get a comp licence - it means nothing but makes you look good Why does the GFA system totally ignore your airforce experience and airforce really learn lookout unlike many glider pilots unfortunately. I hate this sort of crap. I will see you there John OK Ian McPhee On 11 September 2013 10:12, Tim Shirley tshir...@internode.on.net wrote: Rules (and local rules) for State Competitions are set by State Associations. It has been usual for State Associations in recent times to adopt Nationals Rules, but to make some local rules in regard to things like entry requirements so as to allow less experienced pilots to enter. Its the F in the GFA J Cheers Tim Tra dire e fare cè mezzo il mare From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Trezise Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2013 09:36 To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] State Comp Required Pilot Qualifications Can anyone tell me why the pilot qualifications for State Championships are different between Queensland and NSW ? Some of the differences are pretty minor, but is there any reason they should not be the same ? Issues: Qld: 20 hrs solo vs NSW: 25 hrs solo. Qld Silver C distance vs NSW Silver C plus one 300km flight. Qld 10 aerotows vs NSW no requirement. Cant see any significant differences between Warwick and Lake Keepit which would justify different requirements for each site. Personally, its the second one which causes me a problem because, although I have done a number of 300km plus flights, total time has not exceeded 5 hours, and I see little point in just hanging around for 5 hours to get a boy scout badge. John _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6601 - Release Date: 08/23/13 Internal Virus Database is out of date. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licence renewal
Peter, I am amazed that you again raise this hoary old topic. In fact it is an “old whore” topic. I worked in the gold mining industry (exploration), for some time and the big question then was” how do you tell the real thing from the common (wh)ore? Groan. Given that I claim no expertise at all on this subject, (unlike other postees on this site who would like you to believe they represent God Almighty on any given topic), I think I can make a whole series of totally unproven claims, with total aplomb. Apropos of nothing, let me remind you (just in case you may have forgotten - a couple of days have after all passed), that we have VERY recently concluded an election, the outcome of which is that this country now has a new g’ment. Hooray, Hooray!! ?? Did you take careful note of all the pre-election “promises”, especially those made by the party which is now set to govern Australia for the next few years? Let me propose (I am after all very naive), that the FAI exists to do something that (among many other (possibly conflicting interests), involves supporting and advancing the gliding movement on a worldwide basis. You might have to go to the FAI website and do a bit of basic research to find out what they actually claim is their “mission”. Then you might like to also have a look at their outcomes record. Regardless of outcomes, all this requires large (??), amounts of funds to support an underlying bureaucracy: QED, we have the FAI Competitors Licence, and in Australia, the $ 5 pa fee. Do any of you read books these days? Maybe not, or maybe not very often. Regardless, most of you have probably at least heard of Bernie Ecclestone. A (possibly ex) friend of Bernie’s named Susan Watkins wrote a biography of the man. Here are the title details “Bernie: The Biography of Bernie Ecclestone”. Last I heard, Bernie was a top 10, or better, contender for the “World’s Richest” title. Bernie was always into cars, and he became ”involved” with Formula One racing. Read his story, and then ask yourself was BE good for F1 motor racing.? There is no doubt that F1 was good for Bernie! Here are a couple of questions to ponder: · Does gliding need someone like Bernie? · Do you think that there are (any) parallels between top level gliding, and F1 motor racing as shaped by BE? Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Plchampness Sent: Monday, 9 September 2013 6:57 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Cc: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licence renewal Why do we have the competition licence? It used to be the Silver badge was the necessary qualification. What does the competition licence add to safety or anything else? Yours Peter Champness On Sep 9, 2013, at 12:18 PM, Tim Shirley tshir...@internode.on.net wrote: Hi Ross, This is an FAI document not a GFA one, and the requirements may therefore be set by someone else. However, I will talk to Beryl and see what may be done. Cheers Tim Tra dire e fare c’è mezzo il mare From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ross McLean Sent: Monday, 9 September 2013 12:16 To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licence renewal When are we going to automate this process? Why does Beryl have to personally sign everyone's competition licence renewal? It is a process embedded in 1960's thinking. Surely there is a way that these renewals can be completed online now? ROSS From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary Stevenson Sent: Monday, 9 September 2013 10:39 AM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'; crispin...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licence renewal Hi Robert, In a bit more detail, this is what you need to do. Pay for your renewal ($10.00) at the GFA shop. You will automatically get an email receipt, within minutes if you pay using a credit card. The office staff will let Beryl Hartley know (via email) that you have paid. Post you licence to Beryl. I suggest that you include a copy of your receipt as well – belts and braces. Here is the address: GFA-FAI Claims Officer Beryl Hartley PO Box 275 Narromine NSW 2821 As Beryl is now back from Poland, you should get your updated licence, quite quickly. Good luck. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Matt Gage Sent: Monday, 9 September 2013 7:16 AM To: crispin...@gmail.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licence
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licence renewal
Hi Robert, In a bit more detail, this is what you need to do. Pay for your renewal ($10.00) at the GFA shop. You will automatically get an email receipt, within minutes if you pay using a credit card. The office staff will let Beryl Hartley know (via email) that you have paid. Post you licence to Beryl. I suggest that you include a copy of your receipt as well - belts and braces. Here is the address: GFA-FAI Claims Officer Beryl Hartley PO Box 275 Narromine NSW 2821 As Beryl is now back from Poland, you should get your updated licence, quite quickly. Good luck. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Matt Gage Sent: Monday, 9 September 2013 7:16 AM To: crispin...@gmail.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licence renewal Go to the GFA online shop and look under FAI - not Sport ! On 09/09/2013, at 7:01 , Robert Hart crispin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi I've spent a frustrating time trying to find information on the GFA web site on how to renew my competition licence - to no avail. Please can someone point me to the web reference to this - or otherwise tell me how to do this? Tks -- Note: I am changing my email address - please only use my gmail address from now on! Robert Hart crispin...@gmail.com +61 438 385 533 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] iPhone
Thanks Ian and Mike. That advice is a bit more than a hint! Now why didn't I work that out for myself? On reflection - DON'T ASK! Will make the mod soonest. Why is this sort of thing not incorporated as standard, by the glider manufacturers? The Principals almost invariably live in a climate vastly different to that experienced in Australia, but in reality that is no excuse, as I am sure that they get lots of feedback from their customers here and from others based all over the world: Extreme hot and extreme cold. Maybe all experienced in a single wave flight, over a few hours? I suspect that the glider manufacturers sometimes have quite a different agenda to their customers. In particular, think about the history of GRP glider finishes and the materials used. Comments? Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ian Mc Phee Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 11:00 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] iPhone I totally agree with Mike Borgelt on this one and URGE ALL to cut your holes to let the very hot air escape I know it can get to 75 deg C or higher there. So use a canopy cover when on the ground AND cut a hole or slot in the panel cover so the hot air can escape. You can put black insect screen mesh in the hole if you want. It is so important to let out that heat and can kill or at least interfere electronics. PLEASE CUT YOUR HOLES NOW!!! ALL GLIDERS ALL BRANDS OF INSTRUMENTS Ian McPhee On 4 September 2013 18:24, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Here you go: http://www.apple.com/au/ipad/specs/ zero to 35 deg C. Doesn't seem to stop people using iPads for Oz Runways in power planes. Glider cockpits in summer get MUCH hotter than that which brings me to this advice: Your electronics will last longer if you keep them cooler. The rule of thumb is that each additional 10 deg C halves the mean time before failure. Now take a look at your glider instrument panel. As designed it is a perfect solar oven. Perspex above with a black cover over the instruments, nicely curved so the hot air can build up under the cover with no ventilation. I know it can get to 75 deg C or higher there. So use a canopy cover when on the ground AND cut a hole or slot in the panel cover so the hot air can escape. You can put black insect screen mesh in the hole if you want. Mike At 05:54 PM 4/09/2013, you wrote: I found my iphone switched itself off due to the cold when flying in wave. I dont know what the temperature was inside the cockpit, maybe minus 10, but nothing too extreme. but it gave up pretty quickly. All other loggers, pna's, instruments, oximeters etc were fine but the iphone gave up too easy. Shame because i hoped it might serve as a second backup gps. Not too sure how well it would go in the heat either. It seems too clever to put up with that. Tom On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, Graham Holland wrote: As you all probably know, there are an increasing number of soaring apps for the iPhone. However, the maximum operation temperature is listed as 35 degrees. It's likely that the inside of our cockpits exceed that on some days. An app like See you flight recorder does not need to be in sunlight but can be in a pocket, which could reduce it's temperature (depending on how excited you are!). Does anyone have experience of using an iPhone in their glider? Graham Graham Holland 27 Johnston Crescent Lane Cove NSW 2066 Australia 02 9427 3282 tel:02%209427%203282 grahamholl...@iinet.net.au ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 tel:%2B61-42835%205784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Hello
Hi All, Thanks for doing the sums, Mike. I haven't checked your figures but they feel about right, so I have to agree with your conclusions. Bernard, I loved your little aside ... or should I say less costly. It covers the situation nicely! BTW, congrats on reaching the No. 30 ASG 29 milestone. Yeah the time for picking up a used glider from overseas, at the bottom of the market, has passed. However if you want an ASW 20BL (15/16.6 m), from Ararat, Victoria, ready to go, with no import hassles and no waiting - the gliding season is nigh - send me an email, with your phone number, and I will get back to you to discuss same. All REASONABLE (not silly), offers will be considered. Many images are available. Regards, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Tuesday, 3 September 2013 11:18 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Hello I see, pointing out reality is painting everything in a negative light. Longer term the Aussie dollar has been around 0.60 Euro. Currently gliders are about 7.5% cheaper than when this was the case. During the GFC it went down to under 0.50 for a while, as low as 0.49 or 0.48 I think. It then recovered to 0.60 or slightly higher by late 2009 and continued to rise to over 0.80 and in the last year has slipped to where it is now. If you bought 100,000 Euro at 0.8 it cost A$125,000 If you do that today the same number of Euro will cost you A$155,000 and change, a 24% increase. Hardly all that minor. The exchange rate is back to where it was in February 2010. The peak was August 2012 at a rate of 0.85 and a bit. A 31% decline since then. See here: http://www.oanda.com/currency/historical-rates/ you can set up the Euro-AUD rate and look back 5 years. The trajectory right now isn't looking good. If you are planning on buying a glider it would be a good idea to buy the Euro now or get forward cover. Mike At 10:22 AM 3/09/2013, you wrote: Hi Mike Why don't you look at the bright side? The exchange rate is still so much better than it was only three or so years ago!!! Even allowing for the recent slight decline of our currency against the Euro new gliders are now significantly cheaper for Australian customers. In fact they are about 30% cheaper (or should I say less costly) than a few years back. There is hardly any need to paint everything in a negative light. Kind regards Bernard _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Tuesday, 3 September 2013 9:15 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Hello 0.645 Euro is all it buys right now ( Westpac this morning) Not so strong after all as it has been over 0.80 not so long ago. Mike At 09:37 AM 3/09/2013, you wrote: Good morning all Please celebrate a milestone with us! Last night we received the thirtieth order for an ASG 29. May the Australian Dollar remain as strong as this for a long time to come! Kind regards from Adelaide Bernard ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Microair 760
John, Obviously a manual exists. Have you tried obtaining it directly from Microair? Some of the earlier radios (but not the earliest ones), had a problem when the socket that holds the main IC was substituted for by the supplier. The sides of the new socket distorted and bent, so that the IC pins did not all make good contact. But as I recall the usual symptoms were NOT as you describe – the display just showed strange “Japanese” writing. Have you tried talking to one of Microair’s service techs? Maybe Roger is right? A basic service costs less that the price of that eBay manual. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of jo...@optusnet.com.au Sent: Monday, 26 August 2013 9:08 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Microair 760 Here’s one for sale. Looks pricy? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Microair-760-VHF-Aviation-Transceiver-Service-Manual-Avionics-/110998066462#ht_413wt_1161 From: Roger mailto:rogdr...@optusnet.com.au Druce Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 7:12 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Microair 760 John Ashford seeks a service manual, ie beyond installation issues. My best advice is to send the radio to Microair. I reckon they know of this issue and will fix it. I have had good service from them recently. Regards Roger Druce On 26/08/2013 6:59 PM, jo...@optusnet.com.au wrote: This one? http://www.microair.com.au/admin/uploads/documents/M760installusermanualverM.pdf From: John mailto:john_ja...@iinet.net.au Ashford Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 6:34 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Soaring in Australia.' Subject: [Aus-soaring] Microair 760 I’m looking for a service manual for Microair 760. Can anyone help me with a copy or advise what might cause the display to fade intermittently? John _ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6607 - Release Date: 08/25/13 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6607 - Release Date: 08/25/13 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] ScratchBuild
understand why sailplane homebuilding has not paralled powered homebuilding. I fly an RV7A power aircraft, which I built, which beats the pants off anything that would be available commercially, both with respect of capital cost and operating cost. And performance? Don't even bother to ask the question. I am also within the next year or so to present to the gliding movement the first example of a homebuilt glider tow plane, the Pik 27 , which I confidently believe may well halve the towing costs for my club. The Beaufort Gliding club is also going down a similar path with a different design, but using the same automotive engine and are due to fly shortly. This same club built from plans the training glider which they use to this day. So in summary, Gary, as a very experienced homebuilder, I believe that you owe Neville an apology with your outrageous suggestion that his aspirations were sheer stupidity Terry, of course, as our developments and promotions (or whatever) officer for GFA, is much closer to the mark. Yes I agree that Neville needs to craw, then walk before flying. Other posts have pointed him in the correct direction. However for you to be completely dismissive of his aspirations of owning his own sailplane by means of homebuilding fall far short of the Gary Stevenson that I thought I knew rather well. What a pity that this site does not have a moderator! Regards to all Bob Ward -Original Message- From: Terry Cubley Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 4:40 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ScratchBuild My father in law built himself a large yacht and then learnt how to sail. This may be the approach that Neville is considering for joining aviation. Unfortunately (?) Neville, the rules around registration of home built aircraft are quite restrictive, with many checks (cheques) and balances. I support Gary's suggestion that you contact your closest gliding club and indeed the vintage museum which has many home builders as members, and they will be able to give you guidance on the options available. Terry -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary Stevenson Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013 2:51 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ScratchBuild Neville, The old saying goes that you have to learn walk before you can run. In your case you need to first of all learn how to crawl! My guess is that you haven't the slightest idea on WHAT modern gliders are made of, let alone HOW? I suggest that you become a LOT more familiar about the sport itself, before even THINKING about trying to build a glider. If you want to gain some experience with working on wooden gliders, I suggest that you contact the Vintage Gliding Association, and volunteer you services, say 1 or 2 days per week. After you have done that for a year or two you will have a better idea of the magnitude of the task, the skills that are needed, and -let's face it - the plain stupidity of your idea! If you are not convinced, here is another tip: Google Concordia Project and follow the links. You will note that the first requirement is to be a multi-millionaire! Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Neville Sutton Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013 2:08 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] ScratchBuild Where can one find Plans build gliders i.e. build from scratch not a kit All Google seems to return is Models i.e.radio control Is there a list of suppliers somewhere that supplies Glider Avionics etc? ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6603 - Release Date: 08/23/13 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6603 - Release Date: 08/23/13
Re: [Aus-soaring] MOBA
Hi Bob, Further to your email, you mentioned Gary Sunderland, as a design/builder. I wonder if Gary is a subscriber to this web forum? Is there any information available (Australian Gliding?), to your knowledge, about his homebuild project? I would be particularly interested in Gary's comments today - now MANY years down the track - as to what it all meant. Do you have an email contact? Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Bob Ward Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013 7:59 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ScratchBuild I feel that Gary's reply was far too dismissive of Neville's query. Many GFA members have built their own gliders, to name but a few, John Moore, Gary Sunderland and myself. Gary, I suggest that you probably know nothing of Neville's background, or potential competence to construct a homebuilt sailplane. To suggest that he refers to the Concordia web site as a guide as to what is involved, I respectfully consider is much more stupid (ity) than Neville's original query. The Concordia project is reaching for the stars, re performance. I know that is not where Neville is coming from. It is still possible to build a very respectable homebuilt sailplane. Indeed there is an advertisement for a partially built US designed Falcon on the Madocks website. This aircraft if completed by a competent homebuilder, would be imminently competitive in the club or sports class. It is all fibreglass, and has the performance at least of a Libelle or Standard Cirrus. Unfortunately, the company promoting the kit went into receivership. so anyone attempting to complete the project, would have no factory support. More than this particular example were started in Aus. Unfortunately none were finished. To finish a homebuilt project requires real dedication. Ask me how I know! As a dedicated homebuilder, I can never quite understand why sailplane homebuilding has not paralled powered homebuilding. I fly an RV7A power aircraft, which I built, which beats the pants off anything that would be available commercially, both with respect of capital cost and operating cost. And performance? Don't even bother to ask the question. I am also within the next year or so to present to the gliding movement the first example of a homebuilt glider tow plane, the Pik 27 , which I confidently believe may well halve the towing costs for my club. The Beaufort Gliding club is also going down a similar path with a different design, but using the same automotive engine and are due to fly shortly. This same club built from plans the training glider which they use to this day. So in summary, Gary, as a very experienced homebuilder, I believe that you owe Neville an apology with your outrageous suggestion that his aspirations were sheer stupidity Terry, of course, as our developments and promotions (or whatever) officer for GFA, is much closer to the mark. Yes I agree that Neville needs to craw, then walk before flying. Other posts have pointed him in the correct direction. However for you to be completely dismissive of his aspirations of owning his own sailplane by means of homebuilding fall far short of the Gary Stevenson that I thought I knew rather well. What a pity that this site does not have a moderator! Regards to all Bob Ward -Original Message- From: Terry Cubley Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 4:40 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ScratchBuild My father in law built himself a large yacht and then learnt how to sail. This may be the approach that Neville is considering for joining aviation. Unfortunately (?) Neville, the rules around registration of home built aircraft are quite restrictive, with many checks (cheques) and balances. I support Gary's suggestion that you contact your closest gliding club and indeed the vintage museum which has many home builders as members, and they will be able to give you guidance on the options available. Terry -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary Stevenson Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013 2:51 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ScratchBuild Neville, The old saying goes that you have to learn walk before you can run. In your case you need to first of all learn how to crawl! My guess is that you haven't the slightest idea on WHAT modern gliders are made of, let alone HOW? I suggest that you become a LOT more familiar about the sport itself, before even THINKING about trying to build a glider. If you want to gain some experience with working on wooden gliders, I suggest that you contact the Vintage Gliding Association, and volunteer you services, say 1 or 2 days per week. After
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 119, Issue 37
Hi Neville, Already you should have quite a bit more information as a result of responses to your initial query. Now that I have a rough idea of where you live, here is what I suggest: Most gliding clubs around the country usually work on a weekends and public holidays basis. As the weekend is upon us, gliding people will be attending their various clubs. The nearest club to you is probably the Latrobe Valley Gliding Club, Airfield Road, Morwell. So the people there are the obvious ones to first talk to. I understand that the contact person for the LVGC is Michelle Lappin, 0407839238. Give Michelle a call, and run your queries past her. I can assure you that despite your misgivings the process is in fact VERY straight forward. I also suggest that you ask Michelle if the club will be flying this weekend - the sport is after all weather dependant - and if so arrange to go to the airfield, and have a look at operations. If the club is flying, you can also arrange to have a flight with an experienced pilot in a two-seater glider. This is called an Air Experience Flight (AEF). Ask Michelle how much this will cost you. As a result of the AEF, most people instantly know if the sport is something they want to take up. Here is one comment I have heard ... (almost) better than sex. BE WARNED, the sport is addictive! Good luck. Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Neville Sutton Sent: Friday, 23 August 2013 9:53 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 119, Issue 37 Message: 3 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 14:44:34 +1000 From: Neville Sutton nevs...@wideband.net.au Subject: [Aus-soaring] Newbie Questions To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Message-ID: 5216e8b2.5070...@wideband.net.au Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I am told that you don't need a License to Glide in Australia But there are endorsements or classes ?? I have read online the way to get into Gliding is to Join a local club (I am still trying to find out if local club is still operating) What exams are there and is it possible to study them now (before flying) The process to me seems very confusing Then if a glider has a motor can I assume you need a license Also is there Plans build gliders i.e. build from scratch not a kit All Google seems to return is Models i.e.radio control Regards -- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 15:13:45 +1000 From: Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Newbie Questions To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Message-ID: 002101ce9fbf$8aa608b0$9ff21a10$@com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii First question; Where do you live? If it is a big city name the suburb. Gary Thanks I live in Eastern Victoria (Latrobe Valley) ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6600 - Release Date: 08/22/13 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] ScratchBuild
Neville, The old saying goes that you have to learn walk before you can run. In your case you need to first of all learn how to crawl! My guess is that you haven't the slightest idea on WHAT modern gliders are made of, let alone HOW? I suggest that you become a LOT more familiar about the sport itself, before even THINKING about trying to build a glider. If you want to gain some experience with working on wooden gliders, I suggest that you contact the Vintage Gliding Association, and volunteer you services, say 1 or 2 days per week. After you have done that for a year or two you will have a better idea of the magnitude of the task, the skills that are needed, and -let's face it - the plain stupidity of your idea! If you are not convinced, here is another tip: Google Concordia Project and follow the links. You will note that the first requirement is to be a multi-millionaire! Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Neville Sutton Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013 2:08 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] ScratchBuild Where can one find Plans build gliders i.e. build from scratch not a kit All Google seems to return is Models i.e.radio control Is there a list of suppliers somewhere that supplies Glider Avionics etc? ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6603 - Release Date: 08/23/13 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders, glider manufacturers, service
Hi Adam, As you seem to be in a frisky mood, please advise whose Ventus you bought. How much time have you done in it? What are your first impressions? Whose '20 did Jim buy? On a more serious note, in my experience, the S-H factory provides great service, and the fact that Mike Maddocks is the Oz agent is (I consider), a bonus. Don't know about Schleicher's. Never had to have any dealings with them - which as the owner of one of their ships may be the ultimate compliment - but Bernard Eckey as the Oz agent seems to be knowledgeable, competent, and totally committed to the cause. Is it out of place to ask here about customers' experiences - good, bad; amusing even, when dealing with Bernard? DG? - well maybe the owners of current aircraft can make some comment here as to the service they get? As far as older ships are concerned I am tempted to say forget it, but that is totally simplistic. However when it come to buying/selling an older DG aircraft, there isn't the slightest doubt that the factory policy has had a major impact; not good for a seller, and depending on price - in what is already a buyer's market - maybe good - even very good - for a potential buyer. If you are prepared to pay for it, you will still get service. Then there is the SZD 56 (Diana), from Poland in its several evolutions. First there is the language barrier, and then you have to deal with Bogumil Beres, firstly designer, later factory owner. Possibly a real visionary (but nobody can do it entirely on their own), and Beres has (yet??), to come to terms with this. The Diana 2 is the current hottest 15 m ship without doubt, but not without its problems. Down the track there may be maintenance issues. One that comes to mind is the water ballast/control rod interfaces. The whole wing is filled, so the control rods have to pass through the ballast tanks. No Dianas in Australia, so don't worry. Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Adam Woolley Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2013 7:51 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Tasman Trophy Glider Request That's what I like to hear! Schempp-Hirth all the way. Starting to save up for the Ventus 3aJ already! Dad may or may not be impressed with the thought/plan though.. SeeYou, WPP On 22/08/2013, at 8:04, Cee Kay fibremi...@gmail.com wrote: I know someone with a soon to be refurb'd Ventus a, WPP. Although it might be a little faster than a 20 ;-) Chris On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Adam Woolley go_soar...@hotmail.com wrote: On behalf of Peter Trotter, We need a glider for the NZ Tasman Trophy rep to fly at the Kingaroy nationals which are from 14th to 25th October. Our rep is Jim Crowhurst who flies an ASW 20 so something similar would be preferred. If you have something available could you contact Peter Trotter at mailto:peter.trott...@bigpond.com peter.trott...@bigpond.com Regards, Adam Woolley ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Newbie Questions
First question; Where do you live? If it is a big city name the suburb. Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Neville Sutton Sent: Friday, 23 August 2013 2:45 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Newbie Questions I am told that you don't need a License to Glide in Australia But there are endorsements or classes ?? I have read online the way to get into Gliding is to Join a local club (I am still trying to find out if local club is still operating) What exams are there and is it possible to study them now (before flying) The process to me seems very confusing Then if a glider has a motor can I assume you need a license Also is there Plans build gliders i.e. build from scratch not a kit All Google seems to return is Models i.e.radio control Regards ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6600 - Release Date: 08/22/13 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Colin Collum
Hi Bernard,
Colin flies with the GCV at Benalla, so try the office (03 5762 1058),
tomorrow evening say between 5 and 6 pm (Vic time), and they might be able
to give you contact details. {Office might not be manned mid week in
winter.}
Cheers,
Gary
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Future
Aviation
Sent: Saturday, 10 August 2013 5:58 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Colin Collum
Hello All
I'm currently catching up with the latest issues of Gliding Australia
after a lengthy overseas trip.
As Colin Collum has commented on my NZ article I would like to discuss the
matter with him to
improve my knowledge about safe blood oxygen saturation levels while flying
at altitude.
Can anyone provide me with his contact details, please?
Many thanks and kind regards
Bernard
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Re: [Aus-soaring] FW: New Rules: On the grapevine...
Thanks Mandy, A very timely response. I was about to send you an email on the matter! In the interests of wider discussion, I would appreciate you giving us a summary as to WHY this matter is being reviewed. No doubt you have noted the negative, but (possibly), quite considered?? input from some of the subscribers to this list? Once I have the background, I am happy to contribute to the discussion and give the NCC the benefit of my experience, which includes something like 1000 plus competition finishes, over many years, into many different sites under a wide variety of weather conditions. Obviously Bob Ward is also prepared to contribute. I am sure that there are many other current and highly experienced pilots who would be happy to give the NCC (considered) input! Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mandy Temple Sent: Saturday, 10 August 2013 12:44 PM To: Aus-Soaring@Lists. Internode. On. Net Subject: [Aus-soaring] FW: New Rules: On the grapevine... On behalf of Tom Claffey Chair of NCC I can confirm that the issue of finish height and finish ring size was discussed at last weekend's NCC meeting, however at this stage it is a discussion item only and there will be no change for the coming season. Mandy CSC ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] QLD trailer markings/outlandings
Stuart, That is some very pretty tail, as our Yankee cousins might say! However It seems from responses (on this forum) to you posting, that some of this is not really legal - in fact completely illegal! Pleased to hear that you fitted side clearance lights and reflectors. These items ARE now a legal requirement throughout Australia. In passing, please note that I heartly endorse these particular requirements. Apart from the obvious safety aspect, I can assure you that when you have outlanded in deepest woop-woop (which is somewhere just beyond the black stump), you cannot mistake the imminent arrival of YOUR car and trailer, as opposed to the false alarm generated by the passage of the only other two other vehicles (possibly a horse and cart, or more likely a tractor passing your way, in the 3/5/10 hours that have elapsed since you outlanded. Is that a rego label I see on the back just to the right of the number plate? If so It is highly likely that it is not in the correct position: front LHS is usual. Suggest that you review the current guidelines on this matter. Ron, the diagonal marking tape you want should be available from any 3M outlet: The trick is to get a metre or two, rather than a 50 or 100 metre/yard roll. Ring your local distributer and ask them who in the area has bought a roll or two, get their contact details, and then give them a call and ask if they will sell you a bit. Safety equipment outlets might be another possibility to try. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Stuart Kerri FERGUSON Sent: Saturday, 3 August 2013 8:57 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] QLD trailer markings Guys, I did my trailer up last year - the signs are from a truck/bus supplier; even the big Long Vehicle sign was just $40.00, and before someone comments that I don't have side lights or reflectors, it did before the job was completed. The most expensive item was the LED high centre brake light and the paint J SDF From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Saturday, 3 August 2013 1:41 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] QLD trailer markings Guys Pam Kurstjens some time back kindly reminded all owners of Qld registered trailer about new requirements for do not overtake type markings. Can anyone put me onto a place where I can get these signs please?? I have searched three shops in WA and can only get the printed do not overtake signs. I am after the symbol signs for this in 300 x 300, not the usual 400 x 400, and also the horizontal diagonal striping sticker??? Thanks, Ron. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Importing a glider from the USA
Hi Roger, Thanks for that. Your post allows me to make a very important comment. In my article in Gliding Australia I hope I covered ALL - rather than fair- detail on importing a glider, and then went on to cover what you needed to do next, once you had the glider in your hot little hands. What I would like to make perfectly clear here, is that what I wrote applied specifically to a particular period in time. The finger of time has moved, and inevitably this has brought change; so for anybody contemplating importing a glider now, it is essential for them to do their research, and find out what are the current requirements. Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware. Gary Stevenson From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Roger Druce Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013 3:21 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Importing a glider from the USA Dear Peter, Yes, Gary Stevenson at Ararat. He wrote it up in Soaring Australia magazine about 2 years ago with a fair bit off detail. Cheers Roger Druce On 16/07/2013 3:01 PM, Peter Champness wrote: Has anyone importeda glider from the USA recently ie past few years? Which transport company did you use? Is anyone planning to bring anything in the new year? Peter Champness ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Laminated birch
Antony, Yeah, In fact contacting someone from the Museum @ the Marsh might be your best bet. I suspect it is almost certain that they have what you want, without demolishing a Boomerang or two. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter Champness Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013 7:57 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Laminated birch There might be a derelict Boomerang or two at Bacchus Marsh. They have laminated Birch in the wing spars. Peter Champness On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Anthony Smith anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net wrote: Hi all I need to purchase (or otherwise acquire) two relatively small pieces of 9mm thick laminated birch (aircraft grade). If you have some that you are willing to sell or know of a supplier, please let me know off list. Regards Anthony P.S. I tried to send this message a day ago, but it hasn't appeared on the list for some reason. Sorry if you get two messages from me about this. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] SoaringNZ Day 4?
WPP, Enjoying your tales from Finland. Keep them coming. However despite your detailed description below, I do not understand exactly what was the main problem on this day (day 4?), although I gather it had something to do with decisions made soon after the start? Can you please amplify/give us more comment? With 20/20 hindsight, what should you have done differently? Gary - Original Message - From: Adam Woolley To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] SoaringNZ Day 4? Extremely disappointed in myself today, kicking myself, so frustrating, annoyed, can't believe I allowed a situation to develop. I haven't bent anything, just finished my slowest task on a day that I could've done quite well. Expletives! The CD again did a fantastic job of getting the fleet off at the right time. CC easily climbed away in slow climbs, a short delay for standard occurred before the fleet commenced launching again. The weather situation: who would win the day? The CU with thermals, or a front that is on its way with the showers setting in from 4pm (which is now). So on the grid, everyone is thinking similar - get cracking! The start gate opens, I'm with the crowd. Nothing happens. In fact, I'm sitting at the back watching the CC leader peel off behind the Sweeds who do their own thing unknowingly, along with a local in his own direction others nowhere to be seen. My thinking, go with the local in a glider that I can match in the poor conditions (Vis, climbs, nil streeting). I'm happy pre-start that we're not darting through the line, as the base was clearly going up slowly. Drifting downwind of the start line, I'm ok with it as its an AAT I didn't think much would be lost or gained. I head through the gate, immediate good line of energy followed by a decision point. Follow into a slightly less inviting area (conditions, not terrain), or bank right to where I would go chase down the Sweeds (LS4 ASW20)? I decided to keep to my game plan of following a glider (rather than a team) that I can keep up with. Down, down, down. The only half decent cloud didn't give the climb I needed, in fact it gave nothing. Now it's into flying over a massive black roofed factory, nothing; over a spine of a ridge line with a quarry, nothing. Lower, lower. I pick the paddock, keep going via every trigger point. The air comes alive over the paddock, I circle in enough to keep me airborne. I climb a bit, enough to be able to work with something again in the future. I see some birds launching out of the trees in the sun, I'm confident I'll get a climb. Down, down. I'm low again, come on - work! It does. 1.5kts with partial feel. I'm climbing away from an outlanding, I'm upset with myself that I allowed this to happen when I sort of knew it would. Recenter the head Adam. 34kph. Re-start at around 2-2:15pm potentially arrive back in the sure rain, or keep going make the most of it. I quickly analysed everything said to myself: You're at the pre-worlds Adam, you're at a great comp Adam, you're on holidays with an awesome opportunity Adam, Make.The.Most.Of.It! Fly the best flight you can from here, learn heaps have fun! I always say, it's easy to have fun when you're winning, but when you're not - how do you have fun?! I make myself laugh out loud, ha ha ha!! I make myself smile until it hurts the cheeks. I say out loud, this is fun!! Let's race!! Finally with some altitude, I head off to the next climb area - another normal (but poor climb). The mind back in gear after such a silly mistake which I could see happening, we're off again - thank gosh. From this point on I'm reasonably happy with the progress I made. It was a little disconcerting not having a Danger area displaying on the ClearNav, but I used the good old M.A.P. to get me out of trouble. I'm driving the glider again, putting it where I want to. Not feeling the air as I can with the CNv cirrus, but all is ok. I'm even semi-leading some gliders. The end of the flight is near, going into poorer Vis climb strengths, I'm slowing up tip-toeing. I am losing time, but no big deal as the terrain ahead is ok, but unknown. I pick up a nice climb to final glide power home with better air than expected. I'm going to be practicing the min finish height thing for sure back in AUS. 55kph, 1.5kt climbs for the day 45min over after doing min distance. Upon touch down, I'm immediately wound back up again. Such a disappointing flight, I know I could've kicked butt if I played the game smarter at the start. Anyways, such is life - the big show is next year! ***Thanks to Teemu who took the punches on landing, now that I've thought about the flight written this blog - all is sweet. Massive day for learning will again be better prepared for next year!***
Re: [Aus-soaring] Wave
Also being generated off the Grampians up to around lunch time today, when it all turned to sh*t. - Original Message - From: JR To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Wave over the top of Millicent also - Original Message - From: John C To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Wave Also along the Otway Ranges. John. - Original Message - From: Christopher Mc Donnell To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 11:22 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Wave Nice set to the east of the Adelide hills right now. Chris -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3211 - Release Date: 10/22/10 05:34:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Problems with Web
Well said Anita! I agree with the majority of the postees, who say the site is not (yet) up to scratch. However, it is very obvious that there is considerable work in progress, and I look forward to a more satisfactory end result , hopefully in the not too distant future! Tim, I had no idea that your involvement with the computer systems went so far back. What a great effort! I note that in your reply to a posting by Grant Davies, you endorsed the change by GFA from a volunteer operated system to using a commercial provider. Matt provided some very useful and relevant background comment here. Just for interest ,would it be possible for you to give us a history lesson, and tell us how you got to your present way of thinking re the setup of the GFA website? Obviously the Board had to be convinced that a change was required . What do you think were the principal determinate factors? Are you game to make some predictions as to where we might be, say 5-10 years down the track with the new system? A reply off-line to some of this is OK too! Regards, Gary - Original Message - From: Anita Taylor akauffm...@bigpond.com.au To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:24 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Problems with Web Thanks Tim and Matt for your thoughts. My suggestion to anyone who is having a problem with the web page is to contact the GFA Office. I have had good support from them. I know that there are some issues with our new website and I can understand the frustration. I urge you to let the Office know that you are having problems so they can deal with those problems through our service providers. If you can not get any help, or information that satisfies you, I then suggest that you contact the Executive or your Regional Board representative. I would also remind you that many people are doing their VERY BEST to get things up to scratch. Many doing the work are volunteers and then there are the office employees who care very much about our sport, our members and the website, so please, when you are providing feedback, please be constructive and respectful. All the best Anita ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3211 - Release Date: 10/22/10 05:34:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Jack Iggulden -the end of an era at age 94
Macca, As you only hint at, there is a huge amount of gliding history encapsulated in your few paragraphs, and I thank you for the information that you have provided - fascinating stuff! There is no doubt that the Igguldens contributed immensely to our sport in its formative days in Australia, and to my thinking it would be a very good idea for the GFA Board to devote considerable effort (and funds), to getting the Iggulden story onto National Television, to the benefit of the gliding movement. A story like theirs is the very stuff that the ABC thrives on, so the idea should not be too difficult to sell! Daryl, are you and the Board up to the challenge? Jack's death provides a key - if you move NOW. Ian, I can say that Jack was indeed a published author. I am certain that all his work is now long out of print. The only book of his that I read (many years ago), was his novel The Clouded Sky. Although it was long ago, I recall that this was a very powerful work, that was at least the equal of the best work of the famed authors, Neville Shute Norway, and Hammond Innes. Regards, Gary - Original Message - From: Ian Mc Phee To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GFA Secretary ; DARYL CONNELL ; Brett ; Dave Boulter ; Dave Donald ; STO Airworthiness ; Gavin Wills ; ann...@hwy.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:56 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Jack Iggulden -the end of an era at age 94 John (Jack) Iggulden died at Bellingen friday at the age 94. Jack was proud of the fact he was GFA #1 (think the first life member) and with his late brother Bill Iggulden (died 20+years ago) were responsible for the GFA manual of Standard Proceedures and the GFA instructors manual and while changes have occurred there is still a lot there from those Igguldens. They did a lot of negotiation with Sir Donald Anderson the then head of DCA on behalf of GFA. Their life was gliding. His last flying in gliders was in his beloved ASK14 motorglider. He owned it till about 3 years ago always thinking he would be able to fly again. Mind was still OK buy body was failing. Unfortunately last time I say him was Ben Iggulden's (his nephew Brett's son) wedding about 4 years ago (Tom Iggulden -another son of Brett-was married last weekend who we all see on ABC TV reporting from China most weeks) The Igguldens and the Wills families from UK (Phillip and Justin in UK and Gavin in NZ) always had a close association and always there is still a special place for Lucy Wills in all our lives.(movie Windborn or better known as Lucy Learns to fly) My main times with the Iggulden's was at Keepit and Jack and Brett were like father and son. Can always remember Jack landed K14 and said he want to Boggabri and when Brett landed his LS4 I told Brett about Jack going to Boggabri- Then a a ding dong followed with Brett saying You lying old bastard - you cut the turn point short Jack responded with I could see what the marker was behind the silo To explain before camera verification in comps people would drive to the marker and put a L or X or T marker in close to tall silo and change every say 30min. Pilots would have to write down a time and the marker to prove they turned the marker!! Before being at Bellingen NSW the Igguldens came from Victoria where they did much of the early gliding around Tower Hill I seem to remember. There is old black and whit movie of Jack in a thermal then followed by a bit of a spin - no circuits those days! Jack spent time in Jail over the Port Phillip Bay development and he supported the greenies in early days around Bellingen. There was also a ABC ABC TV program done on Igguldens in there early days at Bellingen and they added gliding to the end of the program . If you go to dentist or before you go to sleep on operating table in hospital you may well see the label that says PLANET LIGHTING BELLINGEN NSW which is family company still going under Brett. Jack had daughter Reberta? (who also flew Libelle) and her children all did gliding at Keepit and do remember at least Graham Reece (Jack's grandson) did many solos. Jack's sister Grace died a few years ago and her husband Fred Hoinville wrote the book halfway to heaven (I think the book was written by Grace). There is something about the Olie the Yellow witch Jack did make a tape recording at Keepit of his version of history of Aust gliding. I think at some stage Edmund Schneider when he came to Australia lived under on of the Igguldens houses in Melbourne. I do know Jack was also a writer and wrote several books. He lived at the Promisde Land behing Bellingen. Funeral is 11am (I think) Thursday in Bellingen area and think a number of gliding types will be there to see the old bugger off. Ian McPhee 0428847642 PS my history may be wrong and I stand to be corrected. (Brett's number 0428268862)
Re: [Aus-soaring] Tape
Yeah the 3m stuff is manufactured in 4' wide rolls, so theoretically it can be split down to any width less than that! I have used type 471 in the past, but found that it is not as flexible as other offerings, for going around complex curves. Bowlus is good, as is the Streifeneder tape available from Tom Gilbert. Tesa (Germany), make a good tape for wing/aileron, wing/flap seals etc - 4651 - but it seems Tesa Australia are reluctant to import it! - minimum order quantity is 1 box which from somewhat hazy memory is about 36 (x 50 m), rolls. As best I can gather, it seems to be a chicken and egg scenario re supply and demand! These days a roll or two can probably be imported directly from Germany with a little bit of trouble. I relatively recently tried a sail repair tape, and whilst it did a great sealing job, boy did I regret it when it came time to removing that tape! Never again! The moral here is to stick (pun) with the known, proven brands, like the 4 above. The ideal tape (which has not yet been invented) comes in almost any desired width and colour; it is very thin but very strong; it is flexible; it sticks like sh*t to a blanket, but conversely it is easily removable; it leaves no glue residue, it does degrade under intense UV, nor become brittle with age; and it does not discolour. Oh, and it is very inexpensive to buy - from multiple retail outlets, all over the country, who only aim is to give YOU the customer exceptional service! Regards, Gary - Original Message - From: anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Tape FWIW I use a couple of different tapes: - Short term use ie a few months (eg wing roots) I use the Bowlus tape from Bruce Taylor. - Long term use ie 12 months or more, I use 3M type 471 tape. The 3M stuff is available from most packaging distributors and can be cut to a custom width (suits some of the wider gaps on the old Bergy). Whilst it is more expensive, it is exceedingly good and very, very durable. All of the adhesives used by tape manufacturers are liable to react with UV light and will leave a hard yellow residue after a very long period of application. You may wish to either: replace the tape every 12 months and do a small amount of clean up each time, or replace the tape when it has completely deteriorated and do a major clean up. The 3M tape I had on the Bergy's elevator trim tab was in place for nearly 5 years before the 10 yearly survey caught up with it Anthony On Wed 22/09/10 9:12 AM , Grant Davies gr...@davies.id.au sent: Hi there, Can anyone point me in the right direction for good tape for wings and control surfaces please? The cheap cloth stuff has way too much glue and when the it deteriorates (way to soon) I always have a big messy job ahead of me to clean it all off. Kindest Regards Grant Davies m. 0419 818 315 f. 07 41 54 14 36 e. gr...@davies.id.au From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Jenny Ganderton Sent: Tuesday, 21 September 2010 10:48 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Felt for Tail Dolly? Hi Catherine, I found that place on the internet, but wasn't sure what grade I would need. Thanks for your help. Jenny --- On Tue, 21/9/10, Catherine Conway wrote: From: Catherine Conway Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Felt for Tail Dolly? To: aviatrix726-soar...@yahoo.co.uk , AUS Soaring Received: Tuesday, 21 September, 2010, 9:05 PM Usually the specification for such felt which needs to be dense and a bit hard is engineering firm white felt (fwf) Try this place http://www.feltfabricating.com/ Unfortunately it's not cheap Cath Sent from my iPhone On 21/09/2010, at 7:31 PM, Jenny Ganderton jennygander...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi all Does anyone know where you can obtain felt (preferably white) suitable for relining a tail dolly? I think it would need to be about 5mm thick. The original felt has worn very thin. Thanks Jenny ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:
[Aus-soaring] Soaring Birds
Ulrich,
That is beautifully written, and so true.
Your comment on flying with a wedge tail eagle reminds me of a chance encounter
I once had in a thermal with a gaggle of 5 Wedge Tailed Eagles,at a place now
long gone, called Bowling Green [Ingo Renner used it as a TP for a very
successful 100 km triangle world record attempt, many years ago] in southern
NSW.
[Apart from that one encounter, and over a period of more than 30 years
gliding, I have never seen more than two eagles together on the wing before or
since, and even then, never in a gaggle.]
I joined their gaggle just slightly above them (they did not scatter on my
approach), and thus I was able to observe them at very close quarters. I noted
there was quite a difference in the size of the birds [was this some sort of
family?], but the one thing that has stayed with me to this very day is the
differentiation in markings of these birds. From above, it was very obvious
that each bird had totally different upper surface wing markings. Why has this
not been recorded in the definifitative texts? It is very obvious: No one (to
my knowledge), had ever observed and reported on this phenomenon of a wedge
tailed eagle gaggle (family?) from above.
Moving on.
In what now seems to be almost another life, I had (quite by chance), the
opportunity to observe the Wandering Albatross (Diomeda exulans), totally free
in its natural environment in the middle of the Southern Ocean. David
Attenborough has done a definitive photo study on this the most studied of
birds but unfortunately I did not find the link to his doco on the subject, so
that I might post it here. I suggest that if you have any interest in soaring,
you follow this up. I am not sure if it was mentioned in the doco, but these
birds can potentially live for at least 50 years. In most cases they mate for
life. The major threat to their lives is the hooks on long line fishing
systems. They go for the bait, get snagged by the hook, and drown.
Let me make some points and ask some questions:
Firstly, a personal statement - despite the amount of research that has been
done, I suspect that there are further surprises when it comes to considering
the many aspects of the Wandering Albatross.
It is suggested in the literature that their glide ratio is about 22:1. How was
this derived and by whom?
From observation, I found that each and every bird has its own unique
markings, and was therefore instantly recognisable.
It is total nonsense to believe that any Albatross flies for ever, and does not
settle quite comfortably on the surface of the ocean below.
The folding of all that wing (up to 4 m span), is something that has to be seen
to be believed.{There is potentially a possible commercial/military payoff
here.}
These birds are masters of dynamic soaring.
Ingo proposed and demonstrated (many years ago), that under a specifically
defined set of conditions, dynamic soaring is possible for gliding pilots. As
far as I know this has never been followed up.
If you think you are good, do you think you can better soar than a Wandering
Albatross?
Regards,
Gary
- Original Message -
From: Ulrich Stauss
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Death of a movement - start of a sport
Hi Andrew,
any chance of involving the family in your flying adventures? It would
probably mean sacrificing a little of your own flying and a somewhat greater
financial burden but it can pay off big time further down the track. With 3
kids and a wife who gets airsick easily I know what it's like, believe me. I
was 39 when I (re)started gliding, my oldest was 11. I made sure that every day
I flew they also had at least a flight, first with someone else and after I got
my pax rating with me. I was lucky that at the time there was another family
with young kids at our club and the kids could play and ride their bikes
together while I went on my early cross-country ventures. If they hadn't had a
flight when (if) I came back they got a flight if they still wanted (which they
usually did, especially my daughter who couldn't get enough of the
roller-coaster).
Family holidays since then often involved gliding - but not exclusively. If
so the rule was there had to be fun for everyone. Most gliding clubs and their
surroundings have something to offer - sometimes you just have to look a bit
harder or be a little creative.
The rewards?
The unforgettable flights I have been able to share with my wife (who
initially was quite scared and still is challenged by motion sickness) - flying
in formation with a pair of wedgetail eagles who like us enjoyed a spectacular
sunset together in smooth ridge lift, (out)landing at Wilpena airstrip in the
Flinders Ranges, checking out secluded Murray River beaches from the air and
the next day swimming and basking in the sun there,
[Aus-soaring] Death of a Movement
Hallo Wombat, Thanks for that clarification. I totally missed the point in Christopher McDonnell's earlier posting! The article and comments:Funny? Perhaps. A sad commentary on US journalism and the knowledge of gliding by the average US citizen? No doubt. Uninformed reporting such as comments like those printed in Daily Inter Lake.com could never happen in Australia? I wish! This news report is a sad commentary on the (lack of), gliding knowledge in the US by the general public. In Australia, unfortunately, it is little different here. I have followed all the Development ideas that have been advanced for the promotion of our sport (and participated in more than a few trial projects - all total failures in any absolute sense), over the past 30 years, but it is seems obvious now that we have totally under-estimated the ignorance of the public on even the most basic aspects of our sport. I feel that this must somehow be rectified. Especially at the political level. The pitiful quantum of money that is doled out to the GFA for the administration of our sport is a joke. Let me amend that - it is patently totally and utterly inadequate, and is in fact a bloody insult to every member of the GFA! Political problems demand a political solution. Many years ago, Chris Stevens, (COO), as a paid officer of GFA commenced some good work here. It was never followed up. Those members with long memories, or with a love of history, know that the GFA had more than a sympathetic ear under the patronage of (Sir) Don Anderson who was Director-General of Civil Aviation from 1956 - 1973. There is no doubt that Donald Anderson understood gliding and its value to this developing Nation over and above gliding being just another sport. I wonder if it was totally co-incidental that many people regard this period as the golden years of Australian gliding? OK, so what do we do about our current totally untenable situation - which will become worse if the declining membership issue is not addressed? The movement is contracting - maybe dying. Like it or not, despite the contribution and best efforts of highly intelligent,motivated and knowledgeable members of our sport NONE of the promotion methods of the past 30 years have (in the long term), worked. We therefore need to move on. To what you may ask. There needs to be a real input of funds, to stimulate a serious and ongoing campaign to raise the awareness of politicians, and thereby everyone else as to the value of our sport. So where are these funds to come from? From the government of course. So how do we get these government funds. Well it just so happens that GFA has about $1,000,000 in loose change lying around. As many contributors to this forum have noted, the GFA Board is not elected by the members and it does not have to answer to the members. I will not go into this, other than to say that herein lies an opportunity. That $1,000,000 is allocated to all sorts of projects.The Board has the power to unilaterally decide where funds might be allocated. I suggest that as a matter of urgency the Board gives very serious consideration to committing ALL of those funds to achieving a political solution to reinvigorating our sport. My initial inclination was to use the funds to pay a professional drummer to make our case in the corridors of power -$100,000 over 10 years say, but as we have a new government assuming power in the next few days it may not take that long, if the right advocate is chosen and we as a movement move ASAP. Alternatively, in a more extended scenario, the GFA can use the funds to eventually get its own politician into the parliament, or distribute the funds to educate many MP's so that they become sympathetic to the cause. Of course, GFA may expend all its funds and not get a result. Funnily enough I suspect this would not be a big deal. Hallo CASA - over to you! What are you going to do about administrating everything that GFA does. [And make no mistake about it, does very well.] Lets move on to a worst case scenario.Frankly this something to shiver about, but I guess no gliding at all meets this criteria. A total mind boggle, but almost certainly amiable to a political solution. One further point: I have run this idea past one Board member, and all the competition pilots present at a recent pilots meeting in Kingaroy. I can say that the reception to the idea was less than enthusiastic from the Board member, and was greeted with total silence from the Kingaroy pilots! In the latter case this is perhaps the right response, as it is something that requires VERY serious thought indeed. As a small aside relating to the value of getting your government on side, let me remind you of the decision of the British Government many years ago to supply 100 Twin Asters to the British gliding movement: These ships were state of the art training machines at the time. In the bigger picture the
Re: [Aus-soaring] Grounded Blanik L13's
Hi Guys, Replacing the Blanik is indeed an option. The Grampians Soaring Club has their (relatively), low hours IS28B2 for sale, as it is surplus to our requirements. It is in good condition and comes complete with a recently finished open trailer. It will be advertised in the September issue of Soaring Australia, but if you want to jump the queue, contact me off line - gst...@dodo.com.au Alternatively phone me on 03 5352 4938 (H/W). Regards, Gary - Original Message - From: Kenneth Jason Caldwell kencaldw...@optusnet.com.au To: k...@riverland.net.au; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Grounded Blanik L13's On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 09:24 +0930, Kym Z wrote: Hi all, As you'd all know, Blaniks (unless they have the Llewelyn mod, and unless they comply with the limited -but badly worded criteria from the factory on the AD) are currently grounded... Are we the only club still using a Blanik as our only trainer? It's pretty hard to operate without a trainer... what are other clubs doing about the situation? Southern Tablelands GC has two Blaniks one with and one without the Llewelyn mods. Both have been thoroughly inspected and the wing spars are OK. We are waiting on word from LET via the GFA which would allow the unmodified Blanik back into service. Failing that we will be looking for another two seater. I fear the market price of second hand two seaters has probably already risen significantly! cheers, Ken ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3074 - Release Date: 08/16/10 04:35:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related.
Hallo John. Hope you have been keeping out of trouble, and you and family are in good shape? Must say that is a generous offer on your part, and also shows off your lateral thinking - well done! Are we likely to see you at Benalla (or where ever), this season? Gary - Original Message - From: John Orton To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related. I have been using XE.com for several years without any worries. Ben: If you only want to a single transaction contact me and I can run it through my account for you. Regards, John Orton On 10 August 2010 12:46, Jim Staniforth staniforth...@yahoo.com wrote: I have been quite happy with XE.com. You must set up an account, but their rates are reasonable and you can even place an order to buy at a prescribed rate. Jim From: Gary Stevenson gst...@dodo.com.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 8:29:46 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related. Ben, The banks will rip you off! Try a dedicated foreign exchange dealer, such as Ozforex Foreign Exchange. Go to their web site www.ozforex.com.au to read about them, and what they offer. They are quite transparent.They will rip you off too - but not as much as the banks! However with OFE the first 2 transactions are cost free to you - but do check your transaction documents to ensure that a fee is not inadvertently charged! If you like what you see, then follow the simple instructions to open an account. ID verification can usually be done on line. The actual funds transfer process is also very straightforward, but you do need to follow the steps. As Stuart says, you will need the other parties bank details. Once your A/C is set up, allow a least a couple of days from when you begin your transfer, for the funds to actually end up in the other parties A/C. Happy dealing, Gary - Original Message - From: Stuart Welsby To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related. Hi Ben, Your bank will have no trouble geting the money to their account (if you have their details), for a fee, of course! Cheers Stuart Welsby - Original Message - From: Ben Jones To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:11 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related. Hello guy’s and gals. I’m looking at buying some aircraft parts from NZ. Can anyone enlighten me on how to “Wire money” or direct deposit money into a NZ bank account ??? as the supplier does not accept credit cards. As I have no idea, your knoledge would be most valuable. Regards Ben Jones West Oz -Perth ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3059 - Release Date: 08/09/10 03:57:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3061 - Release Date: 08/10/10 04:35:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus
[Aus-soaring] Australian know-how
Ben, I suspect that you should make that the best Colibri agent in AUSTRALIA, as John is perhaps the only one(??) Your current post does, I think, touch on a very important issue relevant to gliding in Australia (and in the wider context, possibly worldwide gliding), and that is the availability of service - in all its many aspects - for a sport that is very reliant - unless you a traditionalist, in which case your bum is enough [No red or green pith balls for me!] - on supply and technical support for the electrical/electronic instruments most of us now use, and are utterly ?? dependant on. Let me say that whilst we live in the global village and theoretically it shouldn't matter very much where we live when it comes to buying the essential instrumentation, for our dream machine, when something goes wrong with this equipment and we need a fix NOW, we have a whole new ball game! I think we are very fortunate, here in Australia, to have DEDICATED people/businesses who - initially over and above service - can actually design, build, and market State of the Art equipment at a competitive price. In most cases, (good), service follows as a matter of course. So let me name a few Australian names - there are doubtless more - that deserve your support ; Borgelt Instruments Tasman Instruments Swift Avionics Microair X Country Soar Altair If you are a Cambridge fan, Ian McPhee will look after you. Regards, Gary - Original Message - From: Ben Jones To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related. That's the kind of service you get from the Best Colibri agent in WA ;-) From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary Stevenson Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2010 5:49 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related. Hallo John. Hope you have been keeping out of trouble, and you and family are in good shape? Must say that is a generous offer on your part, and also shows off your lateral thinking - well done! Are we likely to see you at Benalla (or where ever), this season? Gary - Original Message - From: John Orton To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related. I have been using XE.com for several years without any worries. Ben: If you only want to a single transaction contact me and I can run it through my account for you. Regards, John Orton On 10 August 2010 12:46, Jim Staniforth staniforth...@yahoo.com wrote: I have been quite happy with XE.com. You must set up an account, but their rates are reasonable and you can even place an order to buy at a prescribed rate. Jim From: Gary Stevenson gst...@dodo.com.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 8:29:46 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related. Ben, The banks will rip you off! Try a dedicated foreign exchange dealer, such as Ozforex Foreign Exchange. Go to their web site www.ozforex.com.au to read about them, and what they offer. They are quite transparent.They will rip you off too - but not as much as the banks! However with OFE the first 2 transactions are cost free to you - but do check your transaction documents to ensure that a fee is not inadvertently charged! If you like what you see, then follow the simple instructions to open an account. ID verification can usually be done on line. The actual funds transfer process is also very straightforward, but you do need to follow the steps. As Stuart says, you will need the other parties bank details. Once your A/C is set up, allow a least a couple of days from when you begin your transfer, for the funds to actually end up in the other parties A/C. Happy dealing, Gary - Original Message - From: Stuart Welsby To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related. Hi Ben, Your bank will have no trouble geting the money to their account (if you have their details), for a fee, of course! Cheers Stuart Welsby - Original Message - From: Ben Jones To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:11 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related
Re: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related.
Ben, The banks will rip you off! Try a dedicated foreign exchange dealer, such as Ozforex Foreign Exchange. Go to their web site www.ozforex.com.au to read about them, and what they offer. They are quite transparent.They will rip you off too - but not as much as the banks! However with OFE the first 2 transactions are cost free to you - but do check your transaction documents to ensure that a fee is not inadvertently charged! If you like what you see, then follow the simple instructions to open an account. ID verification can usually be done on line. The actual funds transfer process is also very straightforward, but you do need to follow the steps. As Stuart says, you will need the other parties bank details. Once your A/C is set up, allow a least a couple of days from when you begin your transfer, for the funds to actually end up in the other parties A/C. Happy dealing, Gary - Original Message - From: Stuart Welsby To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related. Hi Ben, Your bank will have no trouble geting the money to their account (if you have their details), for a fee, of course! Cheers Stuart Welsby - Original Message - From: Ben Jones To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:11 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Off topic but Aviation related. Hello guy's and gals. I'm looking at buying some aircraft parts from NZ. Can anyone enlighten me on how to Wire money or direct deposit money into a NZ bank account ??? as the supplier does not accept credit cards. As I have no idea, your knoledge would be most valuable. Regards Ben Jones West Oz -Perth ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3059 - Release Date: 08/09/10 03:57:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] good and bad
Go to Google, and type in the caption ( between ). It comes up many times. Take your pick. Gary - Original Message - From: Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] good and bad So has anyone got a way around media not available in your region ? Mike At 05:04 PM 28/06/2010, you wrote: Thought y'all might like some news from the UK...good and bad. This link to a BBC programme that covered the new eurocontrol threat to gliding... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/politics_show/regions/east_midlands/8752013.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/politics_show/regions/east_midlands/8752013.stm And on a better note, we just finished the Midland regionals and had nine competition days out of a possible nine! Everybody was stunned...it has hardly ever happened over here due to normal weather (and dont forget that the brits will compete in utter murk and just about impossible conditions). Even more remarkable, the winner won by a margin of ONE point! -- Australia's #1 job site http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2967 - Release Date: 06/28/10 04:35:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] solar emergency lighting?
Pam, Can you give us a bit of background: Just why are you doing this? Regards, Gary - Original Message - From: Terry Neumann To: p...@kurstjens.com ; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] solar emergency lighting? Pam Kurstjens wrote: Has anyone had to provide emergency exit lighting in a hangar that is remote from mains power? I would hope there is a solar powered option for example. Any ideas? Pam 04 2989 8872 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringG'day Pam, and onlookers ... Jaycar have a few options which might meet your purpose: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MP4554keywords=solar+lighting++kitform=KEYWORD and at a lower cost: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MP4552keywords=MP-4552form=KEYWORD or even http://www.jaycar.com.au/productResults.asp?keywords=mp-4551keyform=KEYWORDSUBMIT.x=0SUBMIT.y=0 All are on page 363 of their current (2010) catalogue.Note that in the first instance, you need to add the storage battery to the cost. I have just finished a very vary basic solar panel charger for my garden shed system which uses a couple of 12 volt BC globes and a surplus N70ZZ car battery as the storage source. It's not the perfect system and uses a battery which is not designed for this kind of service, but it works. Going to the ideal and optimised solar powered system can be expensive. As Mike suggest, a torch by the door is also a worthwhile and also probably a lowest cost option. :-) Regards, Terry -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2953 - Release Date: 06/21/10 16:36:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Skynch
Hi All,
From a practical point of view re pilot control of a winch self -launch, I
would imagine the interesting bit would be foolproof control of - wind in
and appropriately stopping - the cable after release from the glider! I
understand that there is equipment available working on 2400 MHz that might
do the job?
Some of you may remember Bill Lewis (Cirrus GAM), who often worked for a
living in the far outback regions of this country. Bill sometimes took his
glider and winch with him, just to keep his hand in. He told me that he
would flag down somebody passing by - apparently there weren't a lot of
locals - give them a quick lesson on winch driving, and away he would go!
Maybe that was sometimes - usually these tales were told late at night, and
the detail tended to blur, if you know what I mean! I seem to recall that he
once told me he had done a rough estimate of launching costs - what a
masochist! - and it worked out at about $800 per launch! There was the odd
miss-adventure you will understand! Bill was an exponent of rope launching,
and he told me he was the only long line fisherman ever to work out of
Central Australia!
{Annie, it occurs to me that there if you can contact Bill and convince him
to put pen to paper, he will give you enough thrilling stories - not
necessarily entirely about gliding - to fill a book, let alone an article or
two in Soaring Australia! If this is of interest, I suggest you try
contacting Bill though David Nugent of the Sunrasia Gliding Club.}
Regards,
Gary
- Original Message -
From: harry medlicott hw.medlic...@optusnet.com.au
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Skynch
Hi Mike,
We have speed conrol from the glider right now. Its called a VHF radio
with
a press to talk button on the control column and a boom mike. Calling
down
speeds to the winch driver is not that hard. Not perfect but we have the
technolgy in most gliders. Just try and convince the GFA. They insist on
all
winch launch signals being given from outside the glider even though no
problem with wing down aerotow retrieves. The word antedulvian springs to
mind,.
Harry M.
- Original Message -
From: Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Skynch
Doesn't have to be electric.
I've long been an advocate of putting the winch throttle in the
glider pilot's hand.
Sure beats using semaphore with the glider airframe.
Mike
At 10:39 AM 27/05/2010, you wrote:
This would be interesting, but controlling a big electric winch.
Good for weekday fliers who don't have a motor glider.
They would have to be independant operators though. Would'nt they !
http://www.xcmag.com/2010/05/skynch/http://www.xcmag.com/2010/05/skynch/
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phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Winch vers. Aerotow
John, Now that is REALLY weird ; a video comparison between winch launching and aerotow! I find it hard to believe that you missed the obligatory childhood lecture (often repeated through the years), on comparisons: Apples with apples; oranges with oranges. The aerotow box was a total waste of time, and a major distraction. Nice video of the winch launch though, and good footage of the changed topography of the BM airfield. Did you do any soaring off this or any other launch on the day? What is the consensus of the users on the success (or otherwise) of the recently installed launch strips? Cheers, Gary -- Original Message - From: John Parncutt To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 6:46 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Winch vers. Aerotow Hi All, Thought you might be interested to see this comparison between winch launching and Aerotow. Greig Wanless and Roger Druce on Aerotow with Axel Allgaier and myself on Geelong G/C winch. A great day for winching on Saturday with about 15 -20 knots of wind straight down 27 we were consistently getting 2000ft AGL. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky1leolUCAY Cheers, John -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2835 - Release Date: 04/26/10 04:31:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] George B Moffat, Winning II: new perspectives
Hi All, Anybody got a copy of this book handy? I need some info out of it. Please reply off list. gst...@dodo.com.au Regards, Gary___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] NZ Accident Investigation
Hi Matt, Now that you mention it, I was aware that you were the Oz rep that year in NZ. In some ways what a bad experience -my belated condolences. I assumed from the reported a series of turns that Trevor was actually thermalling at low level. Your comment makes it clear that this was not the case. Thanks for that. So for whatever reason (as you rightly observe), this is an open and shut case of pilot error. I can picture the situation from your oh so terse comments, and it just sends a cold shudder down my spine. There is a very clear message here, and it has little to do with dehydration (important as it is), which Julie Hall suggests (and quite possibly was), a contributing factor to this disaster. The rule is; have a landable paddock in range, and if all else fails, make a TIMELY decision to ensure that you can SAFELY land in that paddock. The experience level of the pilot, and the conditions on the day will determine just what is timely. Regards, Gary - Original Message - From: Matthew Gage To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] NZ Accident Investigation We will never know the truth - the only person who knew was Trevor. But from being there and knowing what flying had happened in the lead up, I suspect all of the suggested factors played a part, along with a touch of get-home-itis By the time he turned, he had already run out of options (he wasn't going to clear a line of trees he turned short of) and the paddock was way to short for a down wind landing with 20 knots of wind. On 08/04/2010, at 12:05 , Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: Another view. CAA Coroner at odds. Glider death cause disputed By NATALIE AKOORIE and BELINDA FEEK - Waikato Times Last updated 13:00 08/04/2010 The wife of a Cambridge glider pilot killed in a crash outside Matamata more than two years ago has questioned a Civil Aviation Authority report that her husband was being too competitive when he attempted a fatal turn at low altitude. Trevor Atkins, a scientist originally from Canada, died when he crashed into a paddock 2 kilometres from the Matamata Aerodrome, near Waharoa, while competing in the national gliding championships in February, 2008. In the CAA report out yesterday, safety investigator Alan Moselen said Dr Atkins' decision to continue flying toward the aerodrome, rather than landing early, could have been because he believed a thermal was nearby or because of the pressure of competition to keep going. What was on offer was the opportunity to acquire competition points, and this alone was possibly the primary driver that influenced the pilot's decision-making process. The 51-year-old, who was a gliding administrator and had more than 1200 hours' flying experience, was competing with another pilot for the trans-Tasman Trophy. Mr Moselen found the decision to carry out a series of low-level turns and the eventual loss of control was likely to have been influenced by competition and human error rather than any overriding degree of human under-performance caused by fatigue and or dehydration. But Dr Atkins' wife, Niwa scientist Julie Hall, said a coroner's report into her husband's death released last month pointed to fatigue and dehydration as other contributing factors in the crash. When asked whether her husband was so competitive he would put his life at risk, Dr Hall, a glider pilot herself, said: Absolutely not. I don't believe Trevor was competitive at all costs ... anybody that knows him well would say no. Anybody that knew him well, and other pilots who have competed with him, say no. To be totally put down to competitiveness is out of character. Dr Hall did not dispute that her husband was competitive but believed fatigue and dehydration were just as significant contributing factors in his decision-making. I thought his decision-making was impaired in some way and there is good scientific evidence that cognitive function can be impacted at low levels of dehydration and that's a message that needs to go out. She wanted the flying, in particular gliding, community to be more aware of the impact of those factors when up in the air. She is still in discussion with the CAA over the report which was released to her in January. In his final findings into the death of Dr Atkins, coroner Peter Ryan said he accepted the pilot's poor decision-making at the time of the accident may have been affected by dehydration and fatigue. With respect to the author of the (CAA) report, dehydration and fatigue would, in my view, have been significant factors making up the human error factor referred to in the report. Opinion poll ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Re: [Aus-soaring] NZ Accident Investigation
Interesting (and tragic)!
In my experience there is hardly a gliding accident (mechanical failure aside),
that can be attributed to a single cause. In this case it is highly likely that
ALL the factors mentioned in the newspaper report were in play.
It is entirely possible that there were factors in play that were not even
mentioned- for example the pilot's mental state on the day, and terrain (the
availability of a good outlanding paddock or paddocks). {High definition images
of the area are available on Google Earth.} Was there a strong wind blowing?
I wonder how low the series of low level turns was. The pilot would not need
much height to cover 2 km, even into a strong wind, so I guess that low is
bloody low! This data was no doubt available to the investigator and the
Coroner from the flight recorder. I note that the CAA investigator, Alan
Moselen, did not rule out the possibility of fatigue or dehydration as
contributing factors: He simply said they were unlikely to be the over-riding
factors.
I would hope that the message Julie Hall was trying to get out re dehydration,
was well and truly already known to pilots flying in this country, at least. I
can remember Maurie Bradley doing tests at the Renmark Nationals in '96 and
'97, and making known his results soon after. The message - keep hydrated - has
been iterated over and over again since then.
Ditto re spinning off a turn - especially at low level.
Gary
- Original Message -
From: Christopher Mc Donnell
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 12:05 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] NZ Accident Investigation
Another view. CAA Coroner at odds.
Glider death cause disputed
By NATALIE AKOORIE and BELINDA FEEK - Waikato Times
Last updated 13:00 08/04/2010
The wife of a Cambridge glider pilot killed in a crash outside Matamata more
than two years ago has questioned a Civil Aviation Authority report that her
husband was being too competitive when he attempted a fatal turn at low
altitude.
Trevor Atkins, a scientist originally from Canada, died when he crashed into
a paddock 2 kilometres from the Matamata Aerodrome, near Waharoa, while
competing in the national gliding championships in February, 2008.
In the CAA report out yesterday, safety investigator Alan Moselen said Dr
Atkins' decision to continue flying toward the aerodrome, rather than landing
early, could have been because he believed a thermal was nearby or because of
the pressure of competition to keep going.
What was on offer was the opportunity to acquire competition points, and
this alone was possibly the primary driver that influenced the pilot's
decision-making process.
The 51-year-old, who was a gliding administrator and had more than 1200
hours' flying experience, was competing with another pilot for the trans-Tasman
Trophy.
Mr Moselen found the decision to carry out a series of low-level turns and
the eventual loss of control was likely to have been influenced by competition
and human error rather than any overriding degree of human under-performance
caused by fatigue and or dehydration.
But Dr Atkins' wife, Niwa scientist Julie Hall, said a coroner's report into
her husband's death released last month pointed to fatigue and dehydration as
other contributing factors in the crash.
When asked whether her husband was so competitive he would put his life at
risk, Dr Hall, a glider pilot herself, said: Absolutely not. I don't believe
Trevor was competitive at all costs ... anybody that knows him well would say
no. Anybody that knew him well, and other pilots who have competed with him,
say no. To be totally put down to competitiveness is out of character.
Dr Hall did not dispute that her husband was competitive but believed fatigue
and dehydration were just as significant contributing factors in his
decision-making.
I thought his decision-making was impaired in some way and there is good
scientific evidence that cognitive function can be impacted at low levels of
dehydration and that's a message that needs to go out.
She wanted the flying, in particular gliding, community to be more aware of
the impact of those factors when up in the air.
She is still in discussion with the CAA over the report which was released to
her in January.
In his final findings into the death of Dr Atkins, coroner Peter Ryan said he
accepted the pilot's poor decision-making at the time of the accident may
have been affected by dehydration and fatigue.
With respect to the author of the (CAA) report, dehydration and fatigue
would, in my view, have been significant factors making up the human error
factor referred to in the report.
Opinion poll
--
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Re: [Aus-soaring] Water bag maker in Brisbane?
Greg, If you want to try Kingaroy, give Mark Stallwood of Kingaroy Canvas Discounts a call on 0428 582 654 ... (or shop 07 4162 2744). Gary - Original Message - From: Wrights Clutch Service wrigh...@bigpond.net.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Water bag maker in Brisbane? Greg, Nigel had his Libelle bags made at Watsons Marine, if my memory serves me correctly. David - Original Message - From: Greg Wilson gr...@aeromarket.com.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:59 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Water bag maker in Brisbane? Does anybody know of a water bed manufacturer in Brisbane that will make glider water bags? Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2765 - Release Date: 03/23/10 18:33:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2766 - Release Date: 03/24/10 06:33:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
