subject:"\[AusNOG\] HE Routing \(not a joke\)"

Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Mark Andrews


> On 16 May 2018, at 9:59 am, Bradley Amm <b...@bradleyamm.com> wrote:
> 
> So I guess its unlikely that HE will fix the routing to Telstra, Optus, AAPT 
> anytime soon. 

Shouldn’t that be Optus, Telstra and AAPT won’t fix the routing to HE anytime 
soon?
They can ALL initiate the fix.  I believe HE has very open peering policies.

> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Nick Stallman <n...@agentpoint.com>
> Date: 16/5/18 7:32 am (GMT+08:00)
> To: Pieter Berkel <pieter.ber...@gmail.com>, McDonald Richards 
> <mcdonald.richa...@gmail.com>
> Cc: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)
> 
> A beancounter must have realised they had lots of unused Australia -> US 
> capacity and decided they wanted to make some profit from it.
> 
> On 16/05/18 09:29, Pieter Berkel wrote:
>> Fair -- but where does "bits we both end up paying for" fit into that 
>> spectrum?
>> 
>> 
>> On 16 May 2018 at 09:25, McDonald Richards <mcdonald.richa...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> standard route policy: bits you pay me for > bits I get for free > bits I 
>> pay for.
>> 
>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Pieter Berkel <pieter.ber...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> Matt and Gavin are right: this asymmetric routing seems to only impacts 
>> providers that buy transit from HE in SJC (TPG and Vocus being the two main 
>> ones I've noticed).  It would appear from the below post that HE policy is 
>> to preference transit over peering links (presuming that AS paths for both 
>> are the same length?):
>> 
>> https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81=233763_no=2#2006292
>> 
>> (Although I'm not quite sure how the reverse might break routing, it might 
>> break their business model?).  I guess it's up to Vocus & TPG to figure out 
>> how fix if it becomes a problem for them.
>> 
>> Edwin: there is some merit to having a routable /48 to experiment with, not 
>> sure if Internode supply that sort of IPv6 subnet to ADSL customers?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 16 May 2018 at 09:05, Dave Browning <d...@sentrian.com.au> wrote:
>> All good if on MegaIX SYD
>> 
>> Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>> over a maximum of 30 hops:
>> 
>>   1<1 ms<1 ms<1 ms  vl666.cr01.b1.bne.qld.au.sentrian.net.au 
>> [103.226.9.138]
>>   215 ms16 ms14 ms  vl3.cr01.s1.syd.nsw.au.sentrian.net.au 
>> [103.226.9.245]
>>   313 ms16 ms14 ms  as6939.sydney.megaport.com [103.26.68.236]
>>   412 ms19 ms15 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>> 
>> Dave Browning | Network Engineer
>> P 1300 791 678
>> Level 1, 12 Railway Tce, Milton QLD 4064
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>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Pieter Berkel

There's nothing for HE to fix in the case of Telstra, Optus, AAPT -- none
of them peer with HE locally, so naturally the best path is across to SJC
and back again.



On 16 May 2018 at 09:59, Bradley Amm <b...@bradleyamm.com> wrote:

> So I guess its unlikely that HE will fix the routing to Telstra, Optus,
> AAPT anytime soon.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>  Original message 
> From: Nick Stallman <n...@agentpoint.com>
> Date: 16/5/18 7:32 am (GMT+08:00)
> To: Pieter Berkel <pieter.ber...@gmail.com>, McDonald Richards <
> mcdonald.richa...@gmail.com>
> Cc: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)
>
> A beancounter must have realised they had lots of unused Australia -> US
> capacity and decided they wanted to make some profit from it.
>
> On 16/05/18 09:29, Pieter Berkel wrote:
>
> Fair -- but where does "bits we both end up paying for" fit into that
> spectrum?
>
>
> On 16 May 2018 at 09:25, McDonald Richards <mcdonald.richa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> standard route policy: bits you pay me for > bits I get for free > bits I
>> pay for.
>>
>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Pieter Berkel <pieter.ber...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Matt and Gavin are right: this asymmetric routing seems to only impacts
>>> providers that buy transit from HE in SJC (TPG and Vocus being the two main
>>> ones I've noticed).  It would appear from the below post that HE policy is
>>> to preference transit over peering links (presuming that AS paths for both
>>> are the same length?):
>>>
>>> https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81=233
>>> 763_no=2#2006292
>>>
>>> (Although I'm not quite sure how the reverse might break routing, it
>>> might break their business model?).  I guess it's up to Vocus & TPG to
>>> figure out how fix if it becomes a problem for them.
>>>
>>> Edwin: there is some merit to having a routable /48 to experiment with,
>>> not sure if Internode supply that sort of IPv6 subnet to ADSL customers?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 16 May 2018 at 09:05, Dave Browning <d...@sentrian.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> All good if on MegaIX SYD
>>>>
>>>> Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>>>> over a maximum of 30 hops:
>>>>
>>>>   1<1 ms<1 ms<1 ms  vl666.cr01.b1.bne.qld.au.sentr
>>>> ian.net.au [103.226.9.138]
>>>>   215 ms16 ms
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2%C2%A0+%C2%A0+15+ms%C2%A0+%C2%A0+16+ms=gmail=g>
>>>>   14 ms  vl3.cr01.s1.syd.nsw.au.sentrian.net.au [103.226.9.245]
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=245%5D+%0D%0A%C2%A0+3%C2%A0+%C2%A0+13+ms%C2%A0+%C2%A0+16+ms=gmail=g>
>>>>   313 ms16 ms
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3%C2%A0+%C2%A0+13+ms%C2%A0+%C2%A0+16+ms=gmail=g>
>>>>   14 ms  as6939.sydney.megaport.com [103.26.68.236]
>>>>   412 ms19 ms
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=4%C2%A0+%C2%A0+12+ms%C2%A0+%C2%A0+19+ms=gmail=g>
>>>>   15 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>>>>
>>>> Dave Browning | Network Engineer
>>>> P 1300 791 678
>>>> Level 1, 12 Railway Tce, Milton QLD 4064
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=12+Railway+Tce,+Milton+QLD+4064=gmail=g>
>>>> ___
>>>> AusNOG mailing list
>>>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>
>
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> Technical Director
> [image: Email] n...@agentpoint.com
> [image: Phone] 02 8039 6820 <0280396820>
> [image: Website] www.agentpoint.com.au
> [image: Agentpoint] <https://www.agentpoint.com.au/>
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> Level 3, 100 Harris Street, Pyrmont NSW 2009 [image: Facebook]
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Benoit Page-Guitard

Hi Bradley,

They seemed entirely uninterested in solving their lack of domestic GoF
routes when I challenged them on this topic when they tried to sell me IP
transit a few months back.

My guess is they built out their AU presence on the back of a few lucrative
L2 transport customers, and are basically just fishing for any poor suckers
that want to pick up some cheap international-only transit until they
further expand their AU footprint (and GoF routing).


Regards,

Benoit Page-Guitard
Network Engineer
Digital Pacific Group

Phone: 1300 MY HOST (694 678)
Email: benoit.p...@digitalpacific.com.au
Website: https://www.digitalpacific.com.au

On 15 May 2018 at 19:59, Bradley Amm <b...@bradleyamm.com> wrote:

> So I guess its unlikely that HE will fix the routing to Telstra, Optus,
> AAPT anytime soon.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>  Original message 
> From: Nick Stallman <n...@agentpoint.com>
> Date: 16/5/18 7:32 am (GMT+08:00)
> To: Pieter Berkel <pieter.ber...@gmail.com>, McDonald Richards <
> mcdonald.richa...@gmail.com>
> Cc: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)
>
> A beancounter must have realised they had lots of unused Australia -> US
> capacity and decided they wanted to make some profit from it.
>
> On 16/05/18 09:29, Pieter Berkel wrote:
>
> Fair -- but where does "bits we both end up paying for" fit into that
> spectrum?
>
>
> On 16 May 2018 at 09:25, McDonald Richards <mcdonald.richa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> standard route policy: bits you pay me for > bits I get for free > bits I
>> pay for.
>>
>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Pieter Berkel <pieter.ber...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Matt and Gavin are right: this asymmetric routing seems to only impacts
>>> providers that buy transit from HE in SJC (TPG and Vocus being the two main
>>> ones I've noticed).  It would appear from the below post that HE policy is
>>> to preference transit over peering links (presuming that AS paths for both
>>> are the same length?):
>>>
>>> https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81=233
>>> 763_no=2#2006292
>>>
>>> (Although I'm not quite sure how the reverse might break routing, it
>>> might break their business model?).  I guess it's up to Vocus & TPG to
>>> figure out how fix if it becomes a problem for them.
>>>
>>> Edwin: there is some merit to having a routable /48 to experiment with,
>>> not sure if Internode supply that sort of IPv6 subnet to ADSL customers?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 16 May 2018 at 09:05, Dave Browning <d...@sentrian.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> All good if on MegaIX SYD
>>>>
>>>> Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>>>> over a maximum of 30 hops:
>>>>
>>>>   1<1 ms<1 ms<1 ms  vl666.cr01.b1.bne.qld.au.sentr
>>>> ian.net.au [103.226.9.138]
>>>>   215 ms16 ms
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2%C2%A0+%C2%A0+15+ms%C2%A0+%C2%A0+16+ms=gmail=g>
>>>>   14 ms  vl3.cr01.s1.syd.nsw.au.sentrian.net.au [103.226.9.245]
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=245%5D+%0D%0A%C2%A0+3%C2%A0+%C2%A0+13+ms%C2%A0+%C2%A0+16+ms=gmail=g>
>>>>   313 ms16 ms14 ms  as6939.sydney.megaport.com
>>>> [103.26.68.236]
>>>>   412 ms19 ms
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=4%C2%A0+%C2%A0+12+ms%C2%A0+%C2%A0+19+ms=gmail=g>
>>>>   15 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>>>>
>>>> Dave Browning | Network Engineer
>>>> P 1300 791 678
>>>> Level 1, 12 Railway Tce, Milton QLD 4064
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=12+Railway+Tce,+Milton+QLD+4064=gmail=g>
>>>> ___
>>>> AusNOG mailing list
>>>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> AusNOG mailing list
>>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> ___
> AusNOG mailing 
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>
>
> --
> Nick Stallman
> Technical Director
> [image: Email] n...@agentpoint.com
> [image: Phone] 02 8039 6820 <0280396820>
> [image: Website] www.agentpoint.com.au
> [image: Agentpoint] <https://www.agentpoint.com.au/>
> [image: Netpoint] <https://netpoint.group/>
> Level 3, 100 Harris Street, Pyrmont NSW 2009 [image: Facebook]
> <https://www.facebook.com/agentpoint/> [image: Twitter]
> <https://twitter.com/agentpoint> [image: Instagram]
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> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/agentpoint-pty-ltd>
>
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Matt Richards



I requested a direct BGP session with HE and they had it configured in 
under 10 minutes, received a *lot* more prefixes than from the Equinix 
RS but it hasn't fixed the problem.
I've also set my Vocus transit to no-export to HE, but I suspect this 
will just push it on to my other transit (TPG - anybody know of BGP 
communites for them?)


Matt.

On 16/05/2018 11:23 AM, Pieter Berkel wrote:
Matt and Gavin are right: this asymmetric routing seems to only 
impacts providers that buy transit from HE in SJC (TPG and Vocus being 
the two main ones I've noticed).  It would appear from the below post 
that HE policy is to preference transit over peering links (presuming 
that AS paths for both are the same length?):


https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81=233763_no=2#2006292 



(Although I'm not quite sure how the reverse might break routing, it 
might break their business model?).  I guess it's up to Vocus & TPG to 
figure out how fix if it becomes a problem for them.


Edwin: there is some merit to having a routable /48 to experiment 
with, not sure if Internode supply that sort of IPv6 subnet to ADSL 
customers?




On 16 May 2018 at 09:05, Dave Browning > wrote:


All good if on MegaIX SYD

Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net 
[216.218.142.50]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms
vl666.cr01.b1.bne.qld.au.sentrian.net.au
 [103.226.9.138]
  2    15 ms    16 ms    14 ms
vl3.cr01.s1.syd.nsw.au.sentrian.net.au
 [103.226.9.245]
  3    13 ms    16 ms    14 ms as6939.sydney.megaport.com
 [103.26.68.236]
  4    12 ms    19 ms    15 ms tserv1.syd1.he.net
 [216.218.142.50]

Dave Browning | Network Engineer
P 1300 791 678
Level 1, 12 Railway Tce, Milton QLD 4064
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Bradley Amm

So I guess its unlikely that HE will fix the routing to Telstra, Optus,
AAPT anytime soon.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 Original message 
From: Nick Stallman <n...@agentpoint.com>
Date: 16/5/18 7:32 am (GMT+08:00)
To: Pieter Berkel <pieter.ber...@gmail.com>, McDonald Richards <
mcdonald.richa...@gmail.com>
Cc: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

A beancounter must have realised they had lots of unused Australia -> US
capacity and decided they wanted to make some profit from it.

On 16/05/18 09:29, Pieter Berkel wrote:

Fair -- but where does "bits we both end up paying for" fit into that
spectrum?


On 16 May 2018 at 09:25, McDonald Richards <mcdonald.richa...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> standard route policy: bits you pay me for > bits I get for free > bits I
> pay for.
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Pieter Berkel <pieter.ber...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Matt and Gavin are right: this asymmetric routing seems to only impacts
>> providers that buy transit from HE in SJC (TPG and Vocus being the two main
>> ones I've noticed).  It would appear from the below post that HE policy is
>> to preference transit over peering links (presuming that AS paths for both
>> are the same length?):
>>
>> https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81=233
>> 763_no=2#2006292
>>
>> (Although I'm not quite sure how the reverse might break routing, it
>> might break their business model?).  I guess it's up to Vocus & TPG to
>> figure out how fix if it becomes a problem for them.
>>
>> Edwin: there is some merit to having a routable /48 to experiment with,
>> not sure if Internode supply that sort of IPv6 subnet to ADSL customers?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16 May 2018 at 09:05, Dave Browning <d...@sentrian.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> All good if on MegaIX SYD
>>>
>>> Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>>> over a maximum of 30 hops:
>>>
>>>   1<1 ms<1 ms<1 ms  vl666.cr01.b1.bne.qld.au.sentrian.net.au
>>> [103.226.9.138]
>>>   215 ms16 ms
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2%C2%A0+%C2%A0+15+ms%C2%A0+%C2%A0+16+ms=gmail=g>
>>>   14 ms  vl3.cr01.s1.syd.nsw.au.sentrian.net.au [103.226.9.245]
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=245%5D+%0D%0A%C2%A0+3%C2%A0+%C2%A0+13+ms%C2%A0+%C2%A0+16+ms=gmail=g>
>>>   313 ms16 ms14 ms  as6939.sydney.megaport.com
>>> [103.26.68.236]
>>>   412 ms19 ms
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=4%C2%A0+%C2%A0+12+ms%C2%A0+%C2%A0+19+ms=gmail=g>
>>>   15 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>>>
>>> Dave Browning | Network Engineer
>>> P 1300 791 678
>>> Level 1, 12 Railway Tce, Milton QLD 4064
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=12+Railway+Tce,+Milton+QLD+4064=gmail=g>
>>> ___
>>> AusNOG mailing list
>>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>


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Technical Director
[image: Email] n...@agentpoint.com
[image: Phone] 02 8039 6820 <0280396820>
[image: Website] www.agentpoint.com.au
[image: Agentpoint] <https://www.agentpoint.com.au/>
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Level 3, 100 Harris Street, Pyrmont NSW 2009 [image: Facebook]
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Nick Stallman

A beancounter must have realised they had lots of unused Australia -> US 
capacity and decided they wanted to make some profit from it.



On 16/05/18 09:29, Pieter Berkel wrote:
Fair -- but where does "bits we both end up paying for" fit into that 
spectrum?



On 16 May 2018 at 09:25, McDonald Richards 
> wrote:


standard route policy: bits you pay me for > bits I get for free >
bits I pay for.

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Pieter Berkel
> wrote:

Matt and Gavin are right: this asymmetric routing seems to
only impacts providers that buy transit from HE in SJC (TPG
and Vocus being the two main ones I've noticed).  It would
appear from the below post that HE policy is to preference
transit over peering links (presuming that AS paths for both
are the same length?):


https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81=233763_no=2#2006292



(Although I'm not quite sure how the reverse might break
routing, it might break their business model?).  I guess it's
up to Vocus & TPG to figure out how fix if it becomes a
problem for them.

Edwin: there is some merit to having a routable /48 to
experiment with, not sure if Internode supply that sort of
IPv6 subnet to ADSL customers?



On 16 May 2018 at 09:05, Dave Browning > wrote:

All good if on MegaIX SYD

Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net
 [216.218.142.50]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms <1 ms
vl666.cr01.b1.bne.qld.au.sentrian.net.au

[103.226.9.138]
2    15 ms 16 ms


 
  14 ms vl3.cr01.s1.syd.nsw.au.sentrian.net.au

[103.226.9.245]


  3    13 ms    16 ms    14 ms as6939.sydney.megaport.com
 [103.26.68.236]
4    12 ms 19 ms


 
  15 ms tserv1.syd1.he.net 
[216.218.142.50]

Dave Browning | Network Engineer
P 1300 791 678
Level 1, 12 Railway Tce, Milton QLD 4064


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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Pieter Berkel

Fair -- but where does "bits we both end up paying for" fit into that
spectrum?


On 16 May 2018 at 09:25, McDonald Richards 
wrote:

> standard route policy: bits you pay me for > bits I get for free > bits I
> pay for.
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Pieter Berkel 
> wrote:
>
>> Matt and Gavin are right: this asymmetric routing seems to only impacts
>> providers that buy transit from HE in SJC (TPG and Vocus being the two main
>> ones I've noticed).  It would appear from the below post that HE policy is
>> to preference transit over peering links (presuming that AS paths for both
>> are the same length?):
>>
>> https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81=233
>> 763_no=2#2006292
>>
>> (Although I'm not quite sure how the reverse might break routing, it
>> might break their business model?).  I guess it's up to Vocus & TPG to
>> figure out how fix if it becomes a problem for them.
>>
>> Edwin: there is some merit to having a routable /48 to experiment with,
>> not sure if Internode supply that sort of IPv6 subnet to ADSL customers?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16 May 2018 at 09:05, Dave Browning  wrote:
>>
>>> All good if on MegaIX SYD
>>>
>>> Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>>> over a maximum of 30 hops:
>>>
>>>   1<1 ms<1 ms<1 ms  vl666.cr01.b1.bne.qld.au.sentrian.net.au
>>> [103.226.9.138]
>>>   215 ms16 ms
>>> 
>>>   14 ms  vl3.cr01.s1.syd.nsw.au.sentrian.net.au [103.226.9.245]
>>> 
>>>   313 ms16 ms14 ms  as6939.sydney.megaport.com
>>> [103.26.68.236]
>>>   412 ms19 ms
>>> 
>>>   15 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>>>
>>> Dave Browning | Network Engineer
>>> P 1300 791 678
>>> Level 1, 12 Railway Tce, Milton QLD 4064
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> AusNOG mailing list
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread McDonald Richards

standard route policy: bits you pay me for > bits I get for free > bits I
pay for.

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Pieter Berkel 
wrote:

> Matt and Gavin are right: this asymmetric routing seems to only impacts
> providers that buy transit from HE in SJC (TPG and Vocus being the two main
> ones I've noticed).  It would appear from the below post that HE policy is
> to preference transit over peering links (presuming that AS paths for both
> are the same length?):
>
> https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81=233
> 763_no=2#2006292
>
> (Although I'm not quite sure how the reverse might break routing, it might
> break their business model?).  I guess it's up to Vocus & TPG to figure out
> how fix if it becomes a problem for them.
>
> Edwin: there is some merit to having a routable /48 to experiment with,
> not sure if Internode supply that sort of IPv6 subnet to ADSL customers?
>
>
>
> On 16 May 2018 at 09:05, Dave Browning  wrote:
>
>> All good if on MegaIX SYD
>>
>> Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>> over a maximum of 30 hops:
>>
>>   1<1 ms<1 ms<1 ms  vl666.cr01.b1.bne.qld.au.sentrian.net.au
>> [103.226.9.138]
>>   215 ms16 ms14 ms  vl3.cr01.s1.syd.nsw.au.sentrian.net.au
>> [103.226.9.245]
>>   313 ms16 ms14 ms  as6939.sydney.megaport.com
>> [103.26.68.236]
>>   412 ms19 ms15 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>>
>> Dave Browning | Network Engineer
>> P 1300 791 678
>> Level 1, 12 Railway Tce, Milton QLD 4064
>> ___
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>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
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>>
>
>
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Pieter Berkel

Matt and Gavin are right: this asymmetric routing seems to only impacts
providers that buy transit from HE in SJC (TPG and Vocus being the two main
ones I've noticed).  It would appear from the below post that HE policy is
to preference transit over peering links (presuming that AS paths for both
are the same length?):

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81=
233763_no=2#2006292

(Although I'm not quite sure how the reverse might break routing, it might
break their business model?).  I guess it's up to Vocus & TPG to figure out
how fix if it becomes a problem for them.

Edwin: there is some merit to having a routable /48 to experiment with, not
sure if Internode supply that sort of IPv6 subnet to ADSL customers?

On 16 May 2018 at 09:05, Dave Browning  wrote:

> All good if on MegaIX SYD
>
> Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
> over a maximum of 30 hops:
>
>   1<1 ms<1 ms<1 ms  vl666.cr01.b1.bne.qld.au.sentrian.net.au
> [103.226.9.138]
>   215 ms16 ms14 ms  vl3.cr01.s1.syd.nsw.au.sentrian.net.au
> [103.226.9.245]
>   313 ms16 ms14 ms  as6939.sydney.megaport.com [103.26.68.236]
>   412 ms19 ms15 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>
> Dave Browning | Network Engineer
> P 1300 791 678
> Level 1, 12 Railway Tce, Milton QLD 4064
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Dave Browning

All good if on MegaIX SYD

Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1<1 ms<1 ms<1 ms  vl666.cr01.b1.bne.qld.au.sentrian.net.au 
[103.226.9.138]
  215 ms16 ms14 ms  vl3.cr01.s1.syd.nsw.au.sentrian.net.au 
[103.226.9.245]
  313 ms16 ms14 ms  as6939.sydney.megaport.com [103.26.68.236]
  412 ms19 ms15 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]

Dave Browning | Network Engineer
P 1300 791 678
Level 1, 12 Railway Tce, Milton QLD 4064
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Matt Richards

That's not congestion at the IX, that's HE.net routing traffic back to 
you (and me) via California. They're prefering my Vocus transit in SJC 
over the shorter AS path in Sydney.

Try doing a traceroute from their Sydney router on http://lg.he.net

Matt.

On 16/05/2018 10:46 AM, Edwin Groothuis wrote:

From Internode there seems to be congestion at the exchange point:

traceroute to tserv1.syd1.he.net  
(216.218.142.50), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets

 1  192.168.129.1 (192.168.129.1)  2.043 ms  2.373 ms  1.887 ms
 2 lo0.bras1.syd2.on.ii.net  
(150.101.32.61)  30.334 ms  31.081 ms  30.884 ms
 3 be1.cr2.syd2.on.ii.net  
(150.101.197.80)  54.951 ms  30.238 ms  31.129 ms
 4 be51.cr2.syd7.on.ii.net  
(150.101.40.242)  31.842 ms  31.422 ms  33.403 ms
 5 ae6.cr2.syd4.on.ii.net  
(150.101.41.124)  31.041 ms  31.468 ms  32.887 ms
 6 6939.syd.equinix.com  (45.127.173.24)  
181.514 ms  181.298 ms  179.775 ms
 7 tserv1.syd1.he.net  (216.218.142.50)  
180.816 ms  180.744 ms  181.266 ms

(I don't even understand why I need to investigate this as it's more 
than 10 years ago since I got native IPv6 on my ADSL and can't think 
of a reason besides that nobody providing NBN/FTTC will support it. 
Welcome back to early 2000's)

Edwin

On 16 May 2018 at 07:22, Cameron Murray > wrote:

Looks to be in Sydney for us:

Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net 
[216.218.142.50]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  3     1 ms     2 ms     1 ms  103.17.253.22
  4    13 ms    14 ms    13 ms as6939.nsw.ix.asn.au
 [218.100.52.249]
  5    13 ms    13 ms    13 ms tserv1.syd1.he.net
 [216.218.142.50]

Trace complete.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 6:19 PM, andrew khoo
> wrote:

to confirm, i am tracing from a box in a he.net
 colo and it's going to australia:

as7175-sjc>traceroute 216.218.142.50
traceroute to 216.218.142.50 (216.218.142.50), 30 hops max, 60
byte packets
 1 v1882.core2.fmt2.he.net 
(65.19.156.125)  10.773 ms  0.234 ms  0.374 ms
 2 10ge6-16.core4.fmt2.he.net
 (184.105.213.189)  0.768
ms  0.849 ms  0.319 ms
 3 100ge10-1.core1.sjc1.he.net
 (184.105.80.193)  0.552
ms  0.594 ms  0.652 ms
 4 10ge2-1.core1.syd1.he.net
 (184.105.222.86)  146.522
ms  146.509 ms 146.462 ms
 5 tserv1.syd1.he.net 
(216.218.142.50)  146.303 ms  146.311 ms 146.285 ms

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 6:13 PM, Gavin Tweedie
> wrote:

TPG buys transit from HE /in the US/ so routing via the US
is expected, twice.
TPG SYD -> TPG SJC -> HE SJC -> HE SYD -> HE SJC -> TPG
SJC -> TPG SYD

Yours looks like it's staying in Sydney on the way there,
and coming back via the US I agree.. You don't have any
indications in your traceroute what your source ASN is,
but I'm going to guess that your ASN buys transit from HE,
or someone who buys from HE would that be right?

Hurricane do have a LG @ https://lg.he.net/ which might
help you work out the reverse path.

Gav

On Tue, 15 May 2018 at 16:07, Christopher Hawker
> wrote:

Hi All,

I've seen that HE now supposedly run a IPv6 Tunnel
Server in Sydney, although I have doubts as to it's
location after a few traceroutes. This is from SY4 via
NSW-IX:

default.master@cr1:~$ traceroute 216.218.142.50
traceroute to 216.218.142.50 (216.218.142.50), 30 hops
max, 38 byte packets
 1  upstream.carrier (192.0.2.254)  0.183 ms 0.123 ms 
0.108 ms
 2 as6939.nsw.ix.asn.au 
(218.100.52.249)  150.979 ms  152.368 ms  150.857 ms
 3 tserv1.syd1.he.net 
(216.218.142.50)  150.751 ms  150.839 ms  150.755 ms

However, this trace is from an AAPT NBN HFC service:

C:\Users\default.master>tracert 216.218.142.50
Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net

Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Edwin Groothuis

>From Internode there seems to be congestion at the exchange point:

traceroute to tserv1.syd1.he.net (216.218.142.50), 64 hops max, 52 byte
packets
 1  192.168.129.1 (192.168.129.1)  2.043 ms  2.373 ms  1.887 ms
 2  lo0.bras1.syd2.on.ii.net (150.101.32.61)  30.334 ms  31.081 ms  30.884
ms
 3  be1.cr2.syd2.on.ii.net (150.101.197.80)  54.951 ms  30.238 ms  31.129 ms
 4  be51.cr2.syd7.on.ii.net (150.101.40.242)  31.842 ms  31.422 ms  33.403
ms
 5  ae6.cr2.syd4.on.ii.net (150.101.41.124)  31.041 ms  31.468 ms  32.887 ms
 6  6939.syd.equinix.com (45.127.173.24)  181.514 ms  181.298 ms  179.775 ms
 7  tserv1.syd1.he.net (216.218.142.50)  180.816 ms  180.744 ms  181.266 ms

(I don't even understand why I need to investigate this as it's more than
10 years ago since I got native IPv6 on my ADSL and can't think of a reason
besides that nobody providing NBN/FTTC will support it. Welcome back to
early 2000's)

Edwin


On 16 May 2018 at 07:22, Cameron Murray  wrote:

> Looks to be in Sydney for us:
>
> Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
> over a maximum of 30 hops:
>
>   3 1 ms 2 ms 1 ms  103.17.253.22
>   413 ms14 ms13 ms  as6939.nsw.ix.asn.au [218.100.52.249]
>   513 ms13 ms13 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
>
> Trace complete.
>
> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 6:19 PM, andrew khoo 
> wrote:
>
>> to confirm, i am tracing from a box in a he.net colo and it's going to
>> australia:
>>
>> as7175-sjc>traceroute 216.218.142.50
>> traceroute to 216.218.142.50 (216.218.142.50), 30 hops max, 60 byte
>> packets
>>  1  v1882.core2.fmt2.he.net (65.19.156.125)  10.773 ms  0.234 ms  0.374
>> ms
>>  2  10ge6-16.core4.fmt2.he.net (184.105.213.189)  0.768 ms  0.849 ms
>> 0.319 ms
>>  3  100ge10-1.core1.sjc1.he.net (184.105.80.193)  0.552 ms  0.594 ms
>> 0.652 ms
>>  4  10ge2-1.core1.syd1.he.net (184.105.222.86)  146.522 ms  146.509 ms
>> 146.462 ms
>>  5  tserv1.syd1.he.net (216.218.142.50)  146.303 ms  146.311 ms  146.285
>> ms
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 6:13 PM, Gavin Tweedie <
>> gavin.twee...@megaport.com> wrote:
>>
>>> TPG buys transit from HE /in the US/ so routing via the US is expected,
>>> twice.
>>> TPG SYD -> TPG SJC -> HE SJC -> HE SYD -> HE SJC -> TPG SJC -> TPG SYD
>>>
>>> Yours looks like it's staying in Sydney on the way there, and coming
>>> back via the US I agree.. You don't have any indications in your traceroute
>>> what your source ASN is, but I'm going to guess that your ASN buys transit
>>> from HE, or someone who buys from HE would that be right?
>>>
>>> Hurricane do have a LG @ https://lg.he.net/ which might help you work
>>> out the reverse path.
>>>
>>> Gav
>>>
>>> On Tue, 15 May 2018 at 16:07, Christopher Hawker 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi All,


 I've seen that HE now supposedly run a IPv6 Tunnel Server in Sydney,
 although I have doubts as to it's location after a few traceroutes. This is
 from SY4 via NSW-IX:


 default.master@cr1:~$ traceroute 216.218.142.50
 traceroute to 216.218.142.50 (216.218.142.50), 30 hops max, 38 byte
 packets
  1  upstream.carrier (192.0.2.254)  0.183 ms  0.123 ms  0.108 ms
  2  as6939.nsw.ix.asn.au (218.100.52.249)  150.979 ms  152.368 ms
 150.857 ms
  3  tserv1.syd1.he.net (216.218.142.50)  150.751 ms  150.839 ms
 150.755 ms

 However, this trace is from an AAPT NBN HFC service:


 C:\Users\default.master>tracert 216.218.142.50
 Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
 over a maximum of 30 hops:
   1 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms  172.16.10.254
   2 *** Request timed out.
   312 ms10 ms 9 ms  po41.sglebbrdr11.aapt.net.au
 [202.10.14.198]
   4 8 ms 9 ms 9 ms  syd-gls-har-wgw1-be-30.tpgi.com.au
 [203.219.107.197]
   510 ms15 ms14 ms  203.29.134-67.tpgi.com.au
 [203.29.134.67]
   6   173 ms   170 ms   162 ms  100ge13-1.core1.sjc1.he.net
 [216.218.139.233]
   7   308 ms   311 ms   308 ms  10ge2-1.core1.syd1.he.net
 [184.105.222.86]
   8   309 ms   309 ms   309 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
 Trace complete.

 The first trace looks like it is going over to the US (based on the
 latency), however the second looks like it is going to the US and
 back. Anyone else seen anything like this? If there are any HE techs on
 list, I'd appreciate it if they could please contact me off-list.


 CH.
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Scott Howard

Based on a traceroute from my Comcast connection in the San Jose area, it's
definitely located in Sydney.

Looks to me like the path back from HE to you is going via the US.

10ge5-10.core1.sjc2.he.net 0.0%14   15.9  16.4
15.6  20.4   1.1
 9. 10ge4-4.core1.sjc1.he.net  0.0%14   15.7  21.4
15.6  45.6   9.5
10. 10ge2-1.core1.syd1.he.net  0.0%14  163.9 164.6
161.5 177.7   4.9
11. tserv1.syd1.he.net 0.0%14  161.7 162.3
161.3 166.1   1.4


  Scott



On Tue, May 15, 2018, 12:07 Christopher Hawker 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
> I've seen that HE now supposedly run a IPv6 Tunnel Server in Sydney,
> although I have doubts as to it's location after a few traceroutes. This is
> from SY4 via NSW-IX:
>
>
> default.master@cr1:~$ traceroute 216.218.142.50
> traceroute to 216.218.142.50 (216.218.142.50), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
>  1  upstream.carrier (192.0.2.254)  0.183 ms  0.123 ms  0.108 ms
>  2  as6939.nsw.ix.asn.au (218.100.52.249)  150.979 ms  152.368 ms
> 150.857 ms
>  3  tserv1.syd1.he.net (216.218.142.50)  150.751 ms  150.839 ms  150.755
> ms
>
> However, this trace is from an AAPT NBN HFC service:
>
>
> C:\Users\default.master>tracert 216.218.142.50
> Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
> over a maximum of 30 hops:
>   1 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms  172.16.10.254
>   2 *** Request timed out.
>   312 ms10 ms 9 ms  po41.sglebbrdr11.aapt.net.au
> [202.10.14.198]
>   4 8 ms 9 ms 9 ms  syd-gls-har-wgw1-be-30.tpgi.com.au
> [203.219.107.197]
>   510 ms15 ms14 ms  203.29.134-67.tpgi.com.au [203.29.134.67]
>   6   173 ms   170 ms   162 ms  100ge13-1.core1.sjc1.he.net
> [216.218.139.233]
>   7   308 ms   311 ms   308 ms  10ge2-1.core1.syd1.he.net [184.105.222.86]
>   8   309 ms   309 ms   309 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
> Trace complete.
>
> The first trace looks like it is going over to the US (based on the
> latency), however the second looks like it is going to the US and
> back. Anyone else seen anything like this? If there are any HE techs on
> list, I'd appreciate it if they could please contact me off-list.
>
>
> CH.
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Gavin Tweedie

TPG buys transit from HE /in the US/ so routing via the US is expected,
twice.
TPG SYD -> TPG SJC -> HE SJC -> HE SYD -> HE SJC -> TPG SJC -> TPG SYD

Yours looks like it's staying in Sydney on the way there, and coming back
via the US I agree.. You don't have any indications in your traceroute what
your source ASN is, but I'm going to guess that your ASN buys transit from
HE, or someone who buys from HE would that be right?

Hurricane do have a LG @ https://lg.he.net/ which might help you work out
the reverse path.

Gav

On Tue, 15 May 2018 at 16:07, Christopher Hawker 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
> I've seen that HE now supposedly run a IPv6 Tunnel Server in Sydney,
> although I have doubts as to it's location after a few traceroutes. This is
> from SY4 via NSW-IX:
>
>
> default.master@cr1:~$ traceroute 216.218.142.50
> traceroute to 216.218.142.50 (216.218.142.50), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
>  1  upstream.carrier (192.0.2.254)  0.183 ms  0.123 ms  0.108 ms
>  2  as6939.nsw.ix.asn.au (218.100.52.249)  150.979 ms  152.368 ms
> 150.857 ms
>  3  tserv1.syd1.he.net (216.218.142.50)  150.751 ms  150.839 ms  150.755
> ms
>
> However, this trace is from an AAPT NBN HFC service:
>
>
> C:\Users\default.master>tracert 216.218.142.50
> Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
> over a maximum of 30 hops:
>   1 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms  172.16.10.254
>   2 *** Request timed out.
>   312 ms10 ms 9 ms  po41.sglebbrdr11.aapt.net.au
> [202.10.14.198]
>   4 8 ms 9 ms 9 ms  syd-gls-har-wgw1-be-30.tpgi.com.au
> [203.219.107.197]
>   510 ms15 ms14 ms  203.29.134-67.tpgi.com.au [203.29.134.67]
>   6   173 ms   170 ms   162 ms  100ge13-1.core1.sjc1.he.net
> [216.218.139.233]
>   7   308 ms   311 ms   308 ms  10ge2-1.core1.syd1.he.net [184.105.222.86]
>   8   309 ms   309 ms   309 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
> Trace complete.
>
> The first trace looks like it is going over to the US (based on the
> latency), however the second looks like it is going to the US and
> back. Anyone else seen anything like this? If there are any HE techs on
> list, I'd appreciate it if they could please contact me off-list.
>
>
> CH.
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Chris


Hi,

On 15/05/2018 4:06 PM, Christopher Hawker wrote:

Hi All,


I've seen that HE now supposedly run a IPv6 Tunnel Server in Sydney, 
although I have doubts as to it's location after a few traceroutes. This 
is from SY4 via NSW-IX:


The traffic being sent to the destination looks correct, but could the 
issue be he.net doesn't know how to get back to you via IX AU? Do you 
have bi-lateral peering setup with them? If not, that could be why, I do 
have bi-lateral peering over NSW-IX. For me in Sydney I see this:


traceroute to 216.218.142.50 (216.218.142.50), 30 hops max, 52 byte packets
 1  as6939.nsw.ix.asn.au (218.100.52.249)  1.828 ms  0.710 ms  0.428 ms
 2  tserv1.syd1.he.net (216.218.142.50)  0.415 ms  0.512 ms  1.037 ms

The route looks like this:

216.218.128.0/17   *[BGP/170] 2w1d 15:11:08, MED 0, localpref 190
  AS path: 6939 I, validation-state: unverified
> to 218.100.52.249 via xe-0/0/0.10
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[AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

2018-05-15 Thread Christopher Hawker

Hi All,


I've seen that HE now supposedly run a IPv6 Tunnel Server in Sydney, although I 
have doubts as to it's location after a few traceroutes. This is from SY4 via 
NSW-IX:


default.master@cr1:~$ traceroute 216.218.142.50
traceroute to 216.218.142.50 (216.218.142.50), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
 1  upstream.carrier (192.0.2.254)  0.183 ms  0.123 ms  0.108 ms
 2  as6939.nsw.ix.asn.au (218.100.52.249)  150.979 ms  152.368 ms  150.857 ms
 3  tserv1.syd1.he.net (216.218.142.50)  150.751 ms  150.839 ms  150.755 ms

However, this trace is from an AAPT NBN HFC service:


C:\Users\default.master>tracert 216.218.142.50
Tracing route to tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms  172.16.10.254
  2 *** Request timed out.
  312 ms10 ms 9 ms  po41.sglebbrdr11.aapt.net.au [202.10.14.198]
  4 8 ms 9 ms 9 ms  syd-gls-har-wgw1-be-30.tpgi.com.au 
[203.219.107.197]
  510 ms15 ms14 ms  203.29.134-67.tpgi.com.au [203.29.134.67]
  6   173 ms   170 ms   162 ms  100ge13-1.core1.sjc1.he.net [216.218.139.233]
  7   308 ms   311 ms   308 ms  10ge2-1.core1.syd1.he.net [184.105.222.86]
  8   309 ms   309 ms   309 ms  tserv1.syd1.he.net [216.218.142.50]
Trace complete.


The first trace looks like it is going over to the US (based on the latency), 
however the second looks like it is going to the US and back. Anyone else seen 
anything like this? If there are any HE techs on list, I'd appreciate it if 
they could please contact me off-list.


CH.
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Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

Re: [AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

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[AusNOG] HE Routing (not a joke)

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