Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research
Pedrazo = Pedroso De: celeste perry ccgran...@yahoo.com Para: azores@googlegroups.com Enviadas: Sábado, 17 de Abril de 2010 19:46:08 Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research Thanks for your input about this record. I am really glad it is not the record for the John M. Machado Deniz for which I am searching. This one seems to be more complicated than I can figure out. In any case, I will continue to try to find out where John was born and hopefully will have the same good results I am having with his wife who I have found WAS born in Rosais, Sao Jorge. I do not have any information at this time indicating that John was also from Rosais, or even Sao Jorge. Only have census records for his children which state their father was born in the Azores. Celeste, Hayward, CA Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com --- On Sat, 4/17/10, Margaret Vicente margaretvice...@gmail.com wrote: From: Margaret Vicente margaretvice...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research To: azores@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 3:40 PM I Cheri and Celeste, The translation reads somewhat differently, and if I may, filho d'outro literally means son of another which indicates Jorge Machado Dias was of Unkown/incognito or known but not declared father or simply son of single Mother. Manoel son of Jorge Machado Dias, son of another and of Maria Florinda da Silveira, already deceased and, of his wife Maria do Espirito Santo daughter of Manoel Silveira Pereira and of Barbara Silveira, already deceased Margaret Vicente On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 2:35 PM, celeste perry ccgran...@yahoo.com wrote: Thank you, again, Cheri. I am going to set this one aside until I have more concrete information for John M. Machado Deniz. The Machado Deniz caught my attention; however, that may just be a fluke. I am working on trying to get more info from the fraternal society to which he belonged, according to his granddaughter. Celeste, Hayward, CA Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com --- On Sat, 4/17/10, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: From: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research To: azores@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 11:25 AM Full transciption (some of it is faded). 1) Manoel, son of Jorge 2) Machado Diniz, son of the same name, and of 3) Maria Florinda (?) da Silveira, already both dead (hyphenated) 4) dead, and of his wife, Maria do Es- 5) prirto Santo, daughter of Manoel Silveira 6) Pereira and of Barbara Silveira, already both dead (hyphenated) 7) dead, natives of (faded here; doesn't follow wording of next doc) 8) (faded) freguesia of Ribeira Seca 9) that (faded) living in this 10) place of Manadas, parish of 11) Santa Barbara, something and Coun- 12) cil of the Vila of Velas, island of Sao Jorge (hyphenated) 13) Jorge; he was born on the day 30 of May 14) of the 30, I meant to say the 25 of 15) July, was baptized something (priest's name?) 16) something. For godparents Manoel 17) Fidrazo? Pedrazo? de Borba and Izabel Delfina de 18) S. something, both single, both natives of 19) Biscoitos of Calheta, and freguesia some- 20) thing Parish of Manadenzel? (I thought this was Manadas) 21) I think he's babbling about the priest here 22) and here 23) year of birth? of the baptism 24) one thousand eight hundred seventy and seven. Someone really needed to water down the vinho for him! Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research
Does anyone can send me this image, because I'd like to help to read. Joao S.Lopes De: celeste perry ccgran...@yahoo.com Para: azores@googlegroups.com Enviadas: Sábado, 17 de Abril de 2010 19:46:08 Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research Thanks for your input about this record. I am really glad it is not the record for the John M. Machado Deniz for which I am searching. This one seems to be more complicated than I can figure out. In any case, I will continue to try to find out where John was born and hopefully will have the same good results I am having with his wife who I have found WAS born in Rosais, Sao Jorge. I do not have any information at this time indicating that John was also from Rosais, or even Sao Jorge. Only have census records for his children which state their father was born in the Azores. Celeste, Hayward, CA Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com --- On Sat, 4/17/10, Margaret Vicente margaretvice...@gmail.com wrote: From: Margaret Vicente margaretvice...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research To: azores@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 3:40 PM I Cheri and Celeste, The translation reads somewhat differently, and if I may, filho d'outro literally means son of another which indicates Jorge Machado Dias was of Unkown/incognito or known but not declared father or simply son of single Mother. Manoel son of Jorge Machado Dias, son of another and of Maria Florinda da Silveira, already deceased and, of his wife Maria do Espirito Santo daughter of Manoel Silveira Pereira and of Barbara Silveira, already deceased Margaret Vicente On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 2:35 PM, celeste perry ccgran...@yahoo.com wrote: Thank you, again, Cheri. I am going to set this one aside until I have more concrete information for John M. Machado Deniz. The Machado Deniz caught my attention; however, that may just be a fluke. I am working on trying to get more info from the fraternal society to which he belonged, according to his granddaughter. Celeste, Hayward, CA Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com --- On Sat, 4/17/10, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: From: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research To: azores@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 11:25 AM Full transciption (some of it is faded). 1) Manoel, son of Jorge 2) Machado Diniz, son of the same name, and of 3) Maria Florinda (?) da Silveira, already both dead (hyphenated) 4) dead, and of his wife, Maria do Es- 5) prirto Santo, daughter of Manoel Silveira 6) Pereira and of Barbara Silveira, already both dead (hyphenated) 7) dead, natives of (faded here; doesn't follow wording of next doc) 8) (faded) freguesia of Ribeira Seca 9) that (faded) living in this 10) place of Manadas, parish of 11) Santa Barbara, something and Coun- 12) cil of the Vila of Velas, island of Sao Jorge (hyphenated) 13) Jorge; he was born on the day 30 of May 14) of the 30, I meant to say the 25 of 15) July, was baptized something (priest's name?) 16) something. For godparents Manoel 17) Fidrazo? Pedrazo? de Borba and Izabel Delfina de 18) S. something, both single, both natives of 19) Biscoitos of Calheta, and freguesia some- 20) thing Parish of Manadenzel? (I thought this was Manadas) 21) I think he's babbling about the priest here 22) and here 23) year of birth? of the baptism 24) one thousand eight hundred seventy and seven. Someone really needed to water down the vinho for him! Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To
[AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning
Hi, Filho de outro MEANS sono f another man named de same way as his son. So father and son had the same name! eliseu De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] Em nome de Margaret Vicente Enviada: sábado, 17 de Abril de 2010 22:40 Para: azores@googlegroups.com Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research I Cheri and Celeste, The translation reads somewhat differently, and if I may, filho d'outro literally means son of another which indicates Jorge Machado Dias was of Unkown/incognito or known but not declared father or simply son of single Mother. Manoel son of Jorge Machado Dias, son of another and of Maria Florinda da Silveira, already deceased and, of his wife Maria do Espirito Santo daughter of Manoel Silveira Pereira and of Barbara Silveira, already deceased Margaret Vicente On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 2:35 PM, celeste perry ccgran...@yahoo.com wrote: Thank you, again, Cheri. I am going to set this one aside until I have more concrete information for John M. Machado Deniz. The Machado Deniz caught my attention; however, that may just be a fluke. I am working on trying to get more info from the fraternal society to which he belonged, according to his granddaughter. Celeste, Hayward, CA Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com --- On Sat, 4/17/10, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: From: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research To: azores@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 11:25 AM Full transciption (some of it is faded). 1) Manoel, son of Jorge 2) Machado Diniz, son of the same name, and of 3) Maria Florinda (?) da Silveira, already both dead (hyphenated) 4) dead, and of his wife, Maria do Es- 5) prirto Santo, daughter of Manoel Silveira 6) Pereira and of Barbara Silveira, already both dead (hyphenated) 7) dead, natives of (faded here; doesn't follow wording of next doc) 8) (faded) freguesia of Ribeira Seca 9) that (faded) living in this 10) place of Manadas, parish of 11) Santa Barbara, something and Coun- 12) cil of the Vila of Velas, island of Sao Jorge (hyphenated) 13) Jorge; he was born on the day 30 of May 14) of the 30, I meant to say the 25 of 15) July, was baptized something (priest's name?) 16) something. For godparents Manoel 17) Fidrazo? Pedrazo? de Borba and Izabel Delfina de 18) S. something, both single, both natives of 19) Biscoitos of Calheta, and freguesia some- 20) thing Parish of Manadenzel? (I thought this was Manadas) 21) I think he's babbling about the priest here 22) and here 23) year of birth? of the baptism 24) one thousand eight hundred seventy and seven. Someone really needed to water down the vinho for him! Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:azores%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:azores%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research
Joao S Lopes and others (but use Internet Explorer (IE) or Safari): http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMB1870-1879/SJVMB1870-1879_item1/P99.html Cheri -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research
Jorge Machado Dias son of another, that is: Jorge Machado Dias son of another Jorge Machado Dias. His father bears the same name as him. De: celeste perry ccgran...@yahoo.com Para: azores@googlegroups.com Enviadas: Sábado, 17 de Abril de 2010 19:46:08 Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research Thanks for your input about this record. I am really glad it is not the record for the John M. Machado Deniz for which I am searching. This one seems to be more complicated than I can figure out. In any case, I will continue to try to find out where John was born and hopefully will have the same good results I am having with his wife who I have found WAS born in Rosais, Sao Jorge. I do not have any information at this time indicating that John was also from Rosais, or even Sao Jorge. Only have census records for his children which state their father was born in the Azores. Celeste, Hayward, CA Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com --- On Sat, 4/17/10, Margaret Vicente margaretvice...@gmail.com wrote: From: Margaret Vicente margaretvice...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research To: azores@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 3:40 PM I Cheri and Celeste, The translation reads somewhat differently, and if I may, filho d'outro literally means son of another which indicates Jorge Machado Dias was of Unkown/incognito or known but not declared father or simply son of single Mother. Manoel son of Jorge Machado Dias, son of another and of Maria Florinda da Silveira, already deceased and, of his wife Maria do Espirito Santo daughter of Manoel Silveira Pereira and of Barbara Silveira, already deceased Margaret Vicente On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 2:35 PM, celeste perry ccgran...@yahoo.com wrote: Thank you, again, Cheri. I am going to set this one aside until I have more concrete information for John M. Machado Deniz. The Machado Deniz caught my attention; however, that may just be a fluke. I am working on trying to get more info from the fraternal society to which he belonged, according to his granddaughter. Celeste, Hayward, CA Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com --- On Sat, 4/17/10, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: From: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research To: azores@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 11:25 AM Full transciption (some of it is faded). 1) Manoel, son of Jorge 2) Machado Diniz, son of the same name, and of 3) Maria Florinda (?) da Silveira, already both dead (hyphenated) 4) dead, and of his wife, Maria do Es- 5) prirto Santo, daughter of Manoel Silveira 6) Pereira and of Barbara Silveira, already both dead (hyphenated) 7) dead, natives of (faded here; doesn't follow wording of next doc) 8) (faded) freguesia of Ribeira Seca 9) that (faded) living in this 10) place of Manadas, parish of 11) Santa Barbara, something and Coun- 12) cil of the Vila of Velas, island of Sao Jorge (hyphenated) 13) Jorge; he was born on the day 30 of May 14) of the 30, I meant to say the 25 of 15) July, was baptized something (priest's name?) 16) something. For godparents Manoel 17) Fidrazo? Pedrazo? de Borba and Izabel Delfina de 18) S. something, both single, both natives of 19) Biscoitos of Calheta, and freguesia some- 20) thing Parish of Manadenzel? (I thought this was Manadas) 21) I think he's babbling about the priest here 22) and here 23) year of birth? of the baptism 24) one thousand eight hundred seventy and seven. Someone really needed to water down the vinho for him! Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning
Yes, I'm pretty sure of that too, Eliseu. It was either you or Joao who taught me that. Just to be sure, I went back to the original image that Celeste had a question about (URL provided somewhere else in this thread). She's looking at baptism 15. On the next page, at the bottom, on baptism 17, the purple priest writes Pai incognito. On number 19, someone is filho de Pais incognitos, # 21 was pai nao sabido. He's inconsistent. So I went looking for the marriage of Jorge Machado Diniz Maria Florinda to see who the parents were. http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1870-1879/SJVMC1870-1879_item1/P24.html The name of the groom isn't Jorge Machado Diniz, it's Jorge Machado Dias. I went back to the original baptism that Celeste provided and it says Dias, not Diniz. Anyways, the marriage of Jorge Machado Dias, son of Jorge Machado Dias and Maria Florinda da Silveira, married Maria do Espirito Santo da Silveira, daughter of Manuel Silveira Pereira and Barbara Silveira. It all matches with the baptism. It said there was no impediment. I will have to respectfully disagree with Margaret V's analysis of d'outro and go with what Eliseu said. For those learning and wondering about some of the other terms mentioned: Pai incognito = father unknown. When the mother baptized the baby, she said that she didn't know who the father was (although, in reality, she and half the village knew who the father was). Pai nao sabido = same meaning as above. I think the literal translation of this one is father unknown and the literal translation of pai incognito may be father incognito, but the meaning is the same. Pais incognitos = both parents unknown. In this case, it was a baby left on a door step or at the church roda (wheel - it's like a Lazy Susan where you put your offering and spin it around so it goes inside the church). impediment = the bride and groom aren't related to each other (usually it's only mentioned to the 3rd cousin level). Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research
Manoel filho de Jorge Machado Dias filho d'outro e de Maria Florinda da Silveira, já defunctos, e de sua mulher Maria do Espirito Santo, filha de Manoel Silveira Pereira e de Barbara Silveira, já defunctos, naturais estes, da Fajã?(...) Freguezia da Ribeira Seca e aquelles naturaes e moradores deste? Lugar da Manadas Parochial de Santa Barbara Ouvidoria e Concelho da Villa das Vellas Ilha de S. Jorge: nasceu no Dia trinta de Mayo a trinta, digo, da vinte e nove? de Julho foi baptizado p. mim Cura Respectivo? forão Padrinhos Manoel Pedrozo de Borba e Izabel Delfina de S. João (ou S. Julião), Solteiros, ambos naturaes dos Biscoitos da Calheta e freguezes desta Parochia Manadense?: Do q para constar fiz este termo q assigno, com o thezoureiro Jorge de Souza de [...] e do Baptismo mil oito centos settenta e sette Manoel son of Jorge Machado Dias, son of another [jorge Machado Dias] and Maria Florinda da Silveira, already dead, and of his wife Maria do Espirito Santo, daughter of Manoel Silveira Pereira and Barbara Silveira, already dead, these [wife and her parents] born at Fajã?(...) parish of Ribeira Seca e those [husband and his parents] born and living at the place of Manadas parish of Santa Barbara Ouvidoria and Concelho of the Villa das Vellas Island of St George: he's born at May 30th , correcting, July 29th and was baptize for me the respective priest (Cura) godparents: Manoel Pedrozo de Borba and Izabel Delfina de S. João (or S. Julião), both single and born at Biscoitos da Calheta and parishers of this Manadense (gentillic of Manadas) Parish: [...] e do Baptism 1877 De: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com Para: azores@googlegroups.com Enviadas: Domingo, 18 de Abril de 2010 12:37:43 Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research Joao S Lopes and others (but use Internet Explorer (IE) or Safari): http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMB1870-1879/SJVMB1870-1879_item1/P99.html Cheri -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning
Jorge Machado Dias (senior) and Maria Florinda's marriage: http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1831-1860/SJVMC1831-1860_item1/P62.html De: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com Para: azores@googlegroups.com Enviadas: Domingo, 18 de Abril de 2010 13:59:31 Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning Yes, I'm pretty sure of that too, Eliseu. It was either you or Joao who taught me that. Just to be sure, I went back to the original image that Celeste had a question about (URL provided somewhere else in this thread). She's looking at baptism 15. On the next page, at the bottom, on baptism 17, the purple priest writes Pai incognito. On number 19, someone is filho de Pais incognitos, # 21 was pai nao sabido. He's inconsistent. So I went looking for the marriage of Jorge Machado Diniz Maria Florinda to see who the parents were. http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1870-1879/SJVMC1870-1879_item1/P24.html The name of the groom isn't Jorge Machado Diniz, it's Jorge Machado Dias. I went back to the original baptism that Celeste provided and it says Dias, not Diniz. Anyways, the marriage of Jorge Machado Dias, son of Jorge Machado Dias and Maria Florinda da Silveira, married Maria do Espirito Santo da Silveira, daughter of Manuel Silveira Pereira and Barbara Silveira. It all matches with the baptism. It said there was no impediment. I will have to respectfully disagree with Margaret V's analysis of d'outro and go with what Eliseu said. For those learning and wondering about some of the other terms mentioned: Pai incognito = father unknown. When the mother baptized the baby, she said that she didn't know who the father was (although, in reality, she and half the village knew who the father was). Pai nao sabido = same meaning as above. I think the literal translation of this one is father unknown and the literal translation of pai incognito may be father incognito, but the meaning is the same. Pais incognitos = both parents unknown. In this case, it was a baby left on a door step or at the church roda (wheel - it's like a Lazy Susan where you put your offering and spin it around so it goes inside the church). impediment = the bride and groom aren't related to each other (usually it's only mentioned to the 3rd cousin level). Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning
Manuel Machado dias and maria de jesus de borba's marriage: http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1776-1831/SJVMC1776-1831_item1/P109.html De: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com Para: azores@googlegroups.com Enviadas: Domingo, 18 de Abril de 2010 13:59:31 Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning Yes, I'm pretty sure of that too, Eliseu. It was either you or Joao who taught me that. Just to be sure, I went back to the original image that Celeste had a question about (URL provided somewhere else in this thread). She's looking at baptism 15. On the next page, at the bottom, on baptism 17, the purple priest writes Pai incognito. On number 19, someone is filho de Pais incognitos, # 21 was pai nao sabido. He's inconsistent. So I went looking for the marriage of Jorge Machado Diniz Maria Florinda to see who the parents were. http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1870-1879/SJVMC1870-1879_item1/P24.html The name of the groom isn't Jorge Machado Diniz, it's Jorge Machado Dias. I went back to the original baptism that Celeste provided and it says Dias, not Diniz. Anyways, the marriage of Jorge Machado Dias, son of Jorge Machado Dias and Maria Florinda da Silveira, married Maria do Espirito Santo da Silveira, daughter of Manuel Silveira Pereira and Barbara Silveira. It all matches with the baptism. It said there was no impediment. I will have to respectfully disagree with Margaret V's analysis of d'outro and go with what Eliseu said. For those learning and wondering about some of the other terms mentioned: Pai incognito = father unknown. When the mother baptized the baby, she said that she didn't know who the father was (although, in reality, she and half the village knew who the father was). Pai nao sabido = same meaning as above. I think the literal translation of this one is father unknown and the literal translation of pai incognito may be father incognito, but the meaning is the same. Pais incognitos = both parents unknown. In this case, it was a baby left on a door step or at the church roda (wheel - it's like a Lazy Susan where you put your offering and spin it around so it goes inside the church). impediment = the bride and groom aren't related to each other (usually it's only mentioned to the 3rd cousin level). Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning
filho de outro, means the son has the same father's name
Karlushko - Itajai/SC - New York/USA
Pesquisando:
Alemanha, Belgica, Brasil, Luxemburgo, Italia, Portugal, Açores, Espanha
Agueda, Aguiar, André, Antunes, Arruda, Baptista, Beirao, Brasil, Bulcão,
Cardoso, Correia, Costa, Dias, Dutra, Faria, Fernandes, Ferreira, Figueiro,
Gaspar, Gato,
Gomes Gonçalves, Guedes, Jorge, Leal, Lemos, Macedo, Machado, Marques, Martins,
Matos, Mello, Miranda, Moreira, Nascimento, Netto, Nogueira, Nunes, Oliveira,
Pereira, Ponte, Quadrado, Rebello, Rodrigues, Santos, Silva, Silveira,
Simão, Sodré, Souza, Vieira, Zabuya, Fiorenzano, Bertemes, Reinert, Ottekier,
Van der Gocht, de Pres, Hesse,
Laux, Schumer, Jungklaus.
--- Em dom, 18/4/10, Joao S. Lopes josim...@yahoo.com.br escreveu:
De: Joao S. Lopes josim...@yahoo.com.br
Assunto: Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning
Para: azores@googlegroups.com
Data: Domingo, 18 de Abril de 2010, 14:46
Manuel Machado dias and maria de jesus de borba's marriage:
http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1776-1831/SJVMC1776-1831_item1/P109.html
De: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com
Para: azores@googlegroups.com
Enviadas: Domingo, 18 de Abril de 2010 13:59:31
Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning
Yes, I'm pretty sure of that too, Eliseu. It was either you or Joao who taught
me that.
Just to be sure, I went back to the original image that Celeste had a question
about (URL provided somewhere else in this thread). She's looking at baptism
15. On the next page, at the bottom, on baptism 17, the purple priest writes
Pai incognito. On number 19, someone is filho de Pais incognitos, # 21 was
pai nao sabido. He's inconsistent. So I went looking for the marriage of
Jorge Machado Diniz Maria Florinda to see who the parents were.
http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1870-1879/SJVMC1870-1879_item1/P24.html
The name of the groom isn't Jorge Machado Diniz, it's Jorge Machado Dias. I
went back to the original baptism that Celeste provided and it says Dias, not
Diniz.
Anyways, the marriage of Jorge Machado Dias, son of Jorge Machado Dias and
Maria Florinda da Silveira, married Maria do Espirito Santo da Silveira,
daughter of Manuel Silveira Pereira and Barbara Silveira. It all matches with
the baptism. It said there was no impediment.
I will have to respectfully disagree with Margaret V's analysis of d'outro
and go with what Eliseu said.
For those learning and wondering about some of the other terms mentioned:
Pai incognito = father unknown. When the mother baptized the baby, she said
that she didn't know who the father was (although, in reality, she and half the
village knew who the father was).
Pai nao sabido = same meaning as above. I think the literal translation of
this one is father unknown and the literal translation of pai incognito may be
father incognito, but the meaning is the same.
Pais incognitos = both parents unknown. In this case, it was a baby left on a
door step or at the church roda (wheel - it's like a Lazy Susan where you put
your offering and spin it around so it goes inside the church).
impediment = the bride and groom aren't related to each other (usually it's
only mentioned to the 3rd cousin level).
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning
OK, Cheri. I guess this means I can eliminate Rosais, Sao Jorge as a possible
birth place for the Joao M. Machado Deniz I seek. Sorry I got caught up in
this and could not get beyond it until I understood what the record said.
I think I am better off leaving the translation to the professionals!
Celeste
Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com
--- On Sun, 4/18/10, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 9:59 AM
Yes, I'm pretty sure of that too, Eliseu. It was either you or Joao who taught
me that.
Just to be sure, I went back to the original image that Celeste had a question
about (URL provided somewhere else in this thread). She's looking at baptism
15. On the next page, at the bottom, on baptism 17, the purple priest writes
Pai incognito. On number 19, someone is filho de Pais incognitos, # 21 was
pai nao sabido. He's inconsistent. So I went looking for the marriage of
Jorge Machado Diniz Maria Florinda to see who the parents were.
http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1870-1879/SJVMC1870-1879_item1/P24.html
The name of the groom isn't Jorge Machado Diniz, it's Jorge Machado Dias. I
went back to the original baptism that Celeste provided and it says Dias, not
Diniz.
Anyways, the marriage of Jorge Machado Dias, son of Jorge Machado Dias and
Maria Florinda da Silveira, married Maria do Espirito Santo da Silveira,
daughter of Manuel Silveira Pereira and Barbara Silveira. It all matches with
the baptism. It said there was no impediment.
I will have to respectfully disagree with Margaret V's analysis of d'outro
and go with what Eliseu said.
For those learning and wondering about some of the other terms mentioned:
Pai incognito = father unknown. When the mother baptized the baby, she said
that she didn't know who the father was (although, in reality, she and half the
village knew who the father was).
Pai nao sabido = same meaning as above. I think the literal translation of
this one is father unknown and the literal translation of pai incognito may be
father incognito, but the meaning is the same.
Pais incognitos = both parents unknown. In this case, it was a baby left on a
door step or at the church roda (wheel - it's like a Lazy Susan where you put
your offering and spin it around so it goes inside the church).
impediment = the bride and groom aren't related to each other (usually it's
only mentioned to the 3rd cousin level).
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada
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Re: Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research
Eliseu, Joao Cheri, So it is not a literal translation but a term, albeit incomplete? Lesson learned, thank you! Margaret. On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 5:10 PM, celeste perry ccgran...@yahoo.com wrote: Thank you, Joao, I think I finally understand. Manoel was the child that was born. He was the son of Jorge Machado Deniz and this Jorge Machado Deniz was the sone of another Jorge Machado Deniz. That means that Manoel's father and his paternal grandfather have the same name. It is the Machado Deniz name that interests me. I just could not figure out what the record was saying and could not get past that until I understood it. Thank you again for clarifying it for me. Celeste Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com --- On *Sun, 4/18/10, Joao S. Lopes josim...@yahoo.com.br* wrote: From: Joao S. Lopes josim...@yahoo.com.br Subject: Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research To: azores@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 9:37 AM Manoel filho de Jorge Machado Dias filho d'outro e de Maria Florinda da Silveira, já defunctos, e de sua mulher Maria do Espirito Santo, filha de Manoel Silveira Pereira e de Barbara Silveira, já defunctos, naturais estes, da Fajã?(...) Freguezia da Ribeira Seca e aquelles naturaes e moradores deste? Lugar da Manadas Parochial de Santa Barbara Ouvidoria e Concelho da Villa das Vellas Ilha de S. Jorge: nasceu no Dia trinta de Mayo a trinta, digo, da vinte e nove? de Julho foi baptizado p. mim Cura Respectivo? forão Padrinhos Manoel Pedrozo de Borba e Izabel Delfina de S. João (ou S. Julião), Solteiros, ambos naturaes dos Biscoitos da Calheta e freguezes desta Parochia Manadense?: Do q para constar fiz este termo q assigno, com o thezoureiro Jorge de Souza de [...] e do Baptismo mil oito centos settenta e sette Manoel son of Jorge Machado Dias, son of another [jorge Machado Dias] and Maria Florinda da Silveira, already dead, and of his wife Maria do Espirito Santo, daughter of Manoel Silveira Pereira and Barbara Silveira, already dead, these [wife and her parents] born at Fajã?(...) parish of Ribeira Seca e those [husband and his parents] born and living at the place of Manadas parish of Santa Barbara Ouvidoria and Concelho of the Villa das Vellas Island of St George: he's born at May 30th , correcting, July 29th and was baptize for me the respective priest (Cura) godparents: Manoel Pedrozo de Borba and Izabel Delfina de S. João (or S. Julião), both single and born at Biscoitos da Calheta and parishers of this Manadense (gentillic of Manadas) Parish: [...] e do Baptism 1877 -- *De:* Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com *Para:* azores@googlegroups.com *Enviadas:* Domingo, 18 de Abril de 2010 12:37:43 *Assunto:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research Joao S Lopes and others (but use Internet Explorer (IE) or Safari): http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMB1870-1879/SJVMB1870-1879_item1/P99.html Cheri -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comazores%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comazores%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comazores%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research
Margaret V, Not, not a literal translation. More like d'outro = of another (of the same name), I'd say, but they leave out the ( ) part because it is understood (or within the priests and scribes circles of that time period). Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
