Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] DNA Relationship of 13 people on list
Sam, I read this list all the time. I've done my DNA test for the female line but not family finder yet. My mother is a Silva through her father. She is from Manteca/Escalon, Calif area. My 2nd great grandmother is Maria Inacia da Silveira born in 1853 Calheta, Sao Jorge. Her spouse was Joao Faustino de Luz. Her mother (my 3rd great grandmother) was Marianna Inacia Silveira born Aug 26 1820 Ribeira Seca. Maria's father was Joao Silveira Nunes. Mariana Inacia Silveira's parents I have listed as Isabel Silveira s. Pedro and Manuel Michado Mendonca Borba. I don't have birth dates for all the parents or grandparents yet. I'm a slow reader of the baptism, etc pages. Does any of your Silveira line have any of these Silveira names listed? I have my family on tribalpages.com. I don't know how to do Gedcom, post my DNA results, or even understand them. I saw your post that had Silveira and the correct island so I thought I would ask. Thanks for your time. Robin L On Apr 26, 2014, at 14:02, aportugee via Azores Genealogy azores@googlegroups.com wrote: Hello list; I just ran a comparison on FTDNA Family Finder Matrix. The 13 people below are shown as matches. I know William Coelho and Alfred Rose are 2nd cousins. The line goes from Fraga back to Silveira back to Machado on the island of Sao Jorge. My thought is, if the 13 of s compared notes and gedcoms, wouldn’t you think we could find the link? My gedcom is up on FTDNA and I know some of the others are as well. Perhaps if the rest of the 13 who do not have there gedcoms posted on FTDNA would post them, we might find the link? Does anyone else have an idea how to figure this out? Thanks, Sam (wandering around the U.S. in search of a home) William Coelho Alfred Rose William (Bill) Antoine Dennis Silva (Contact: Fawn) Manuel Soares Cunha (c/o Helen) Adeline Marie Amaral (Contact: Veronica) Shirley Adene Cooley David Maria Do Carmo Geraldine Martin Buzzie Mendonca Sharon Pereira-Driscoll Danae Andrea Sharp Emil Henry Silveira Sent from Windows Mail -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Santa Maria marriage: Name of groom, Bride and her parents
Happily, I stumbled on the marriage of one of Sebastiaom Jacomo de Resendes sons while looking for someone else. I'm not sure if the son's name is Joze or Joao. I researched and found Sebastiaom and Maria did have a son named Joze but this groom's name looked like Joao . http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730_item1/P52.html the mother is Maria Da Costa but can't figure out what it says after her name. (Guessing deceased?) The bride is Antonia (?) de Jesus Rapozo (?)- guessing here Daughter of Joze? De ? And can't figure out the mother of the bride's name or anything after that. I'm guessing at the names of the bride and her parents. Not even sure if the bride's name is Antonia or Maria One NICE THING in this record was I noticed the beautiful signature of Sebastiaom Jacome de Resendes - Amazing! My husband will be so tickled to see his 8 grandfather knew how to write- at least his name. I'm going to use that signature for his foto. Was the marriage 26 June? (1725). Any help would be so appreciated. Maria Elena in Wisconsin Lower left page and upper right http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730_item1/P52.html Maria Elena -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] use of dona
I think the use of dona can be applied very arbitrarily. I've seen many old records where it appears to be noble families but it's also simply used as a sign of respect.our bankers on Pico always call me Dona Nancy and that's certainly not because of a noble rank! We have a neighbor who is the wife of a professor and she is always referred to as Dona Manuela. Nancy Jean From: p...@dholmes.com To: azores@googlegroups.com; dpai...@gmail.com Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] use of dona Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:17:22 -0700 Hi Dano, I just wanted to mention that I have many ancestors who were capitao, alferes, sargento and one tenente, plus another ajudante, not one of them whose wife was called Dona. Mine are from Pico and Terceira - mostly Pico for my military ancestors. I do know they were from old and noble families or some such wording in priest applications. I guess they just didn't get that higher level treatment for some reason. Come to think of it, I even have some Capitao-mor ancestors or sons of my ancestors and still their wives were not dona. But you are right in most cases that on other islands we would see dona for their wives. I guess it's just a quirk on Pico, but dona was certainly found on Pico. I have one single ancestors with dona and she was the wife of an administrator of a vinculo so I guess that finally was enough to qualify. But her mother was not a dona. It came from her husband, yet his mother was not dona either! Since my only comment was about the use of this word, I changed the subject. By the way, your comment about your failing eye sight came as a surprise, since you still show no sign of it preventing you from reading the records well. Impressive, but sorry to hear about that. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage and Death Record help From: Dano dpai...@gmail.com The obito is not for your Francisco, as he seems to have acquired a new surname, and the high level military title of Captain, not even a full eight years after his marriage, when his occupation was shoemaker. People just did not rise from artisan/craftsmen to the class of Captain ever. Only those of the privileged (noble) class could expect any such appointment, and I don't see any Dom or Dona title for any of the people mentioned. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santa Maria marriage: Name of groom, Bride and her parents
Hi Maria, Which of these 4 is your record..terrible writing! Nancy Jean Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santa Maria marriage: Name of groom, Bride and her parents From: maria.lima...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 07:52:00 -0500 To: azores@googlegroups.com Happily, I stumbled on the marriage of one of Sebastiaom Jacomo de Resendes sons while looking for someone else. I'm not sure if the son's name is Joze or Joao. I researched and found Sebastiaom and Maria did have a son named Joze but this groom's name looked like Joao . http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730_item1/P52.html the mother is Maria Da Costa but can't figure out what it says after her name. (Guessing deceased?) The bride is Antonia (?) de Jesus Rapozo (?)- guessing here Daughter of Joze? De ? And can't figure out the mother of the bride's name or anything after that. I'm guessing at the names of the bride and her parents. Not even sure if the bride's name is Antonia or Maria One NICE THING in this record was I noticed the beautiful signature of Sebastiaom Jacome de Resendes - Amazing! My husband will be so tickled to see his 8 grandfather knew how to write- at least his name. I'm going to use that signature for his foto. Was the marriage 26 June? (1725). Any help would be so appreciated. Maria Elena in Wisconsin Lower left page and upper right http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730_item1/P52.html Maria Elena -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] use of dona
Estimada Dona Nancy,You are talking about modern usage where every adult female is dona.I was recently looking at civil records in Rio de Janeiro and every bride was Dona in the early 1900s - 100% of them.It has now become common and shows respect, no different than Mr. Coelho or Mrs. Johnson.But in the older church records, before 1910, it is far more sparingly used. It evolved from the early 1600s when it was way more uncommon to being more like today's usage by the time we get to 1910, but still way more uncommon than today.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] use of "dona" From: nancy jean baptiste fishsongf...@hotmail.com Date: Tue, April 29, 2014 8:54 am To: azores group azores@googlegroups.com I think the use of "dona" can beapplied very arbitrarily. I've seen many old records where it appears to be noble families but it's also simply used as a sign of respect.our bankers on Pico always call me "Dona" Nancy and that's certainly not because of a noble rank! We have a neighbor who is the wife of a professor and she is always referred to as Dona Manuela.Nancy JeanFrom: p...@dholmes.comTo: azores@googlegroups.com; dpai...@gmail.comSubject: [AZORES-Genealogy] use of "dona"Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:17:22 -0700Hi Dano,I just wanted to mention that I have many ancestors who were capitao, alferes, sargento and one tenente, plus another ajudante, not one of them whose wife was called "Dona." Mine are from Pico and Terceira - mostly Pico for my military ancestors. I do know they were "from old and noble families" or some such wording in priest applications. I guess they just didn't get that higher level treatment for some reason.Come to think of it, I even have some Capitao-mor ancestors or sons of my ancestors and still their wives were not "dona."But you are right in most cases that on other islands we would see "dona" for their wives. I guess it's just a quirk on Pico, but "dona" was certainly found on Pico. I have one single ancestors with "dona" and she was the wife of an administrator of a "vinculo" so I guess that finally was enough to qualify. But her mother was not a "dona." It came from her husband, yet his mother was not "dona" either!Since my only comment was about the use of this word, I changed the subject.By the way, your comment about your failing eye sight came as a surprise, since you still show no sign of it preventing you from reading the records well. Impressive, but sorry to hear about that.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santa Maria marriage: Name of groom, Bride and her parents
Sorry- it's the lower left hand and it goes into the upper right hand page. Thank you. Maria Elena On Apr 29, 2014, at 10:57 AM, nancy jean baptiste fishsongf...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Maria, Which of these 4 is your record..terrible writing! Nancy Jean Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santa Maria marriage: Name of groom, Bride and her parents From: maria.lima...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 07:52:00 -0500 To: azores@googlegroups.com Happily, I stumbled on the marriage of one of Sebastiaom Jacomo de Resendes sons while looking for someone else. I'm not sure if the son's name is Joze or Joao. I researched and found Sebastiaom and Maria did have a son named Joze but this groom's name looked like Joao . http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730_item1/P52.html the mother is Maria Da Costa but can't figure out what it says after her name. (Guessing deceased?) The bride is Antonia (?) de Jesus Rapozo (?)- guessing here Daughter of Joze? De ? And can't figure out the mother of the bride's name or anything after that. I'm guessing at the names of the bride and her parents. Not even sure if the bride's name is Antonia or Maria One NICE THING in this record was I noticed the beautiful signature of Sebastiaom Jacome de Resendes - Amazing! My husband will be so tickled to see his 8 grandfather knew how to write- at least his name. I'm going to use that signature for his foto. Was the marriage 26 June? (1725). Any help would be so appreciated. Maria Elena in Wisconsin Lower left page and upper right http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730_item1/P52.html Maria Elena -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santa Maria marriage: Name of groom, Bride and her parents
Gerri; Thanks for the heads up. I’ll check out your gedcom and hopefully, you will check out mine and we’ll see if we can figure out our relationship. Here’s hoping, Sam Sent from Windows Mail From: Maria Lima Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:23 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com Cc: azores group Sorry- it's the lower left hand and it goes into the upper right hand page. Thank you. Maria Elena On Apr 29, 2014, at 10:57 AM, nancy jean baptiste fishsongf...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Maria, Which of these 4 is your record..terrible writing! Nancy Jean Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santa Maria marriage: Name of groom, Bride and her parents From: maria.lima...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 07:52:00 -0500 To: azores@googlegroups.com Happily, I stumbled on the marriage of one of Sebastiaom Jacomo de Resendes sons while looking for someone else. I'm not sure if the son's name is Joze or Joao. I researched and found Sebastiaom and Maria did have a son named Joze but this groom's name looked like Joao . http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730_item1/P52.html the mother is Maria Da Costa but can't figure out what it says after her name. (Guessing deceased?) The bride is Antonia (?) de Jesus Rapozo (?)- guessing here Daughter of Joze? De ? And can't figure out the mother of the bride's name or anything after that. I'm guessing at the names of the bride and her parents. Not even sure if the bride's name is Antonia or Maria One NICE THING in this record was I noticed the beautiful signature of Sebastiaom Jacome de Resendes - Amazing! My husband will be so tickled to see his 8 grandfather knew how to write- at least his name. I'm going to use that signature for his foto. Was the marriage 26 June? (1725). Any help would be so appreciated. Maria Elena in Wisconsin Lower left page and upper right http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730_item1/P52.html Maria Elena -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: use of dona
Doug, I just wanted to clarify my comments about Dom Dona. Basically, I used the terms in the *metaphorical* sense, just to provide an example of the point I was trying to make. Now, I've done enough research to know that those titles didn't go as package deal, but, I also know that seldom, if ever, did a shoemaker get elevated to the rank of Capitao, over a period of seven years - especially, in a world where royalty and nobility ruled, and, where most everyone else was relegated to peasantry. As for that nobility, none of it rubbed off on me, either - although, I too, am descended from persons of title. As for my eyesight, it is was it is. It was a shock when my eye doctor first broke the news, last year, but I'm lucky, at least, that I still have one eye that has been able to become the workhorse for two. If I didn't have the experience that I have researching these old documents, I probably wouldn't be able to decipher anything. ~~ On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:17:22 AM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Hi Dano, I just wanted to mention that I have many ancestors who were capitao, alferes, sargento and one tenente, plus another ajudante, not one of them whose wife was called Dona. Mine are from Pico and Terceira - mostly Pico for my military ancestors. I do know they were from old and noble families or some such wording in priest applications. I guess they just didn't get that higher level treatment for some reason. Come to think of it, I even have some Capitao-mor ancestors or sons of my ancestors and still their wives were not dona. But you are right in most cases that on other islands we would see dona for their wives. I guess it's just a quirk on Pico, but dona was certainly found on Pico. I have one single ancestors with dona and she was the wife of an administrator of a vinculo so I guess that finally was enough to qualify. But her mother was not a dona. It came from her husband, yet his mother was not dona either! Since my only comment was about the use of this word, I changed the subject. By the way, your comment about your failing eye sight came as a surprise, since you still show no sign of it preventing you from reading the records well. Impressive, but sorry to hear about that. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage and Death Record help From: Dano dpa...@gmail.com javascript: The obito is not for your Francisco, as he seems to have acquired a new surname, and the high level military title of Captain, not even a full eight years after his marriage, when his occupation was shoemaker. People just did not rise from artisan/craftsmen to the class of Captain ever. Only those of the privileged (noble) class could expect any such appointment, and I don't see any Dom or Dona title for any of the people mentioned. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Divorce Records
Thanks, Cheri. I've noticed that you're the owner of this site. So many have been so generous with what they know, I keep reaching out to thank them. I'm not sure of the protocol, though. I don't want to keep clogging up the site with my thanks, but I do want to let everyone know how much I appreciate it. Any advice? On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:18:04 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: Check Newspaper Archives (paid site). Some libraries, or FHCs may have a subscription. http://newspaperarchive.com/us/ Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] use of dona
Well, Doug, and Nancy, not having been born, or grown up in the islands, I can't speak definitively about the customs. However, I was brought up to respect persons in the community. In my case the terms I was to use were Senhor e Senhora - that, and the fact that I didn't speak a word of English before entering parochial school, one might say that I was brought up as a Portuguese [expatriate]??? On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 12:22:26 PM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Estimada Dona Nancy, You are talking about modern usage where every adult female is dona. I was recently looking at civil records in Rio de Janeiro and every bride was Dona in the early 1900s - 100% of them. It has now become common and shows respect, no different than Mr. Coelho or Mrs. Johnson. But in the older church records, before 1910, it is far more sparingly used. It evolved from the early 1600s when it was way more uncommon to being more like today's usage by the time we get to 1910, but still way more uncommon than today. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] use of dona From: nancy jean baptiste fishso...@hotmail.com javascript: Date: Tue, April 29, 2014 8:54 am To: azores group azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: I think the use of dona can be applied very arbitrarily. I've seen many old records where it appears to be noble families but it's also simply used as a sign of respect.our bankers on Pico always call me Dona Nancy and that's certainly not because of a noble rank! We have a neighbor who is the wife of a professor and she is always referred to as Dona Manuela. Nancy Jean -- From: pi...@dholmes.com javascript: To: azo...@googlegroups.com javascript:; dpa...@gmail.com javascript: Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] use of dona Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:17:22 -0700 Hi Dano, I just wanted to mention that I have many ancestors who were capitao, alferes, sargento and one tenente, plus another ajudante, not one of them whose wife was called Dona. Mine are from Pico and Terceira - mostly Pico for my military ancestors. I do know they were from old and noble families or some such wording in priest applications. I guess they just didn't get that higher level treatment for some reason. Come to think of it, I even have some Capitao-mor ancestors or sons of my ancestors and still their wives were not dona. But you are right in most cases that on other islands we would see dona for their wives. I guess it's just a quirk on Pico, but dona was certainly found on Pico. I have one single ancestors with dona and she was the wife of an administrator of a vinculo so I guess that finally was enough to qualify. But her mother was not a dona. It came from her husband, yet his mother was not dona either! Since my only comment was about the use of this word, I changed the subject. By the way, your comment about your failing eye sight came as a surprise, since you still show no sign of it preventing you from reading the records well. Impressive, but sorry to hear about that. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: use of dona
Until about 1800s, usually the donas were wives or daughters of men of high social ranking. Gradually dona was becoming just a way of showing respect, like Mistress. JS Lopes Em Terça-feira, 29 de Abril de 2014 14:53, Dano dpai...@gmail.com escreveu: Doug, I just wanted to clarify my comments about Dom Dona. Basically, I used the terms in the metaphorical sense, just to provide an example of the point I was trying to make. Now, I've done enough research to know that those titles didn't go as package deal, but, I also know that seldom, if ever, did a shoemaker get elevated to the rank of Capitao, over a period of seven years - especially, in a world where royalty and nobility ruled, and, where most everyone else was relegated to peasantry. As for that nobility, none of it rubbed off on me, either - although, I too, am descended from persons of title. As for my eyesight, it is was it is. It was a shock when my eye doctor first broke the news, last year, but I'm lucky, at least, that I still have one eye that has been able to become the workhorse for two. If I didn't have the experience that I have researching these old documents, I probably wouldn't be able to decipher anything. ~~ On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:17:22 AM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Hi Dano, I just wanted to mention that I have many ancestors who were capitao, alferes, sargento and one tenente, plus another ajudante, not one of them whose wife was called Dona. Mine are from Pico and Terceira - mostly Pico for my military ancestors. I do know they were from old and noble families or some such wording in priest applications. I guess they just didn't get that higher level treatment for some reason. Come to think of it, I even have some Capitao-mor ancestors or sons of my ancestors and still their wives were not dona. But you are right in most cases that on other islands we would see dona for their wives. I guess it's just a quirk on Pico, but dona was certainly found on Pico. I have one single ancestors with dona and she was the wife of an administrator of a vinculo so I guess that finally was enough to qualify. But her mother was not a dona. It came from her husband, yet his mother was not dona either! Since my only comment was about the use of this word, I changed the subject. By the way, your comment about your failing eye sight came as a surprise, since you still show no sign of it preventing you from reading the records well. Impressive, but sorry to hear about that. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage and Death Record help From: Dano dpa...@gmail.com The obito is not for your Francisco, as he seems to have acquired a new surname, and the high level military title of Captain, not even a full eight years after his marriage, when his occupation was shoemaker. People just did not rise from artisan/craftsmen to the class of Captain ever. Only those of the privileged (noble) class could expect any such appointment, and I don't see any Dom or Dona title for any of the people mentioned. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Getting the Most out of your Postings
I've been getting questions on posting to this list. It's time to do some guidelines. NEW POSTS: 1) Compose your email. Address it to Azores@googlegroups.com 2) Subject: Try for a name or names, date or range, and a PLACE. Here's sample from the archive that are NOT as helpful Translation Help Baptismal Record Help Help read the Groom's name BETTER: Baptism of Joao Silva, 1880, Nordeste, Sao Miguel Why is that better than Baptismal Record Help? Because you may connect to family members on this list who are not yet reading the records, but they are researching Silvas in Nordeste. They will follow the thread to see if you are indeed from their same family. Don't worry, someone will still help you with the words that you can't make out. OLD POSTS: Hit Reply and post your response to that topic. So, if the topic is Flight to the Azores and you suddenly remember that Carol (Silva) Warnock's cousin is your DNA match, DON'T respond to Carol about DNA under a thread/post about a trip to the Azores. Please start a new thread about DNA matches to the Silvas of Lajes, Pico. That thread will really pique Carol's interest! Besides, I will get an email 6 months later from someone who remembers something about Carol and her Silvas on Pico and can't find it in the archive. And I can't find it either because when I run Carol's posts, I won't find any that mention DNA, but I will find ones that mention a trip to the Azores. And I really wouldn't read 10 messages about a trip to the Azores to find the DNA one because it doesn't make sense to look there. MANNERS: I know people don't want to be rude, but due to the volume of email, we really need to cut down on sending a single message that says Thanks Thank you, or just You're welcome. Please, try to thank the people in advance when you make the post. And no need to say you're welcome. To send a message to 1200+ people to say thank you to 1 person for help with translating in addition to several posts for translation help...well, it makes the list unnecessarily busy. If you really need to thank or say you're welcome you can always send a private email. Hope this helps out with making successful posts! Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: use of dona
Hello, Dona is also ubiquitous in use in Mexican culture of the 19th century, especially of the mid 1800's. Parish records of this time period demonstrate this, as nearly every female is called Dona. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] use of dona
Hi Dano, I hear people addressed as Senhor and Senhora all the time in Picoit seems to be the equivalent of Mr. and Mrs..as I mentioned out of all my female neighbors only one is addressed as Dona and I'll find out why this summer. Nancy Jean Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:11:04 -0700 From: dpai...@gmail.com To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] use of dona Well, Doug, and Nancy, not having been born, or grown up in the islands, I can't speak definitively about the customs. However, I was brought up to respect persons in the community. In my case the terms I was to use were Senhor e Senhora - that, and the fact that I didn't speak a word of English before entering parochial school, one might say that I was brought up as a Portuguese [expatriate]??? On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 12:22:26 PM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Estimada Dona Nancy, You are talking about modern usage where every adult female is dona.I was recently looking at civil records in Rio de Janeiro and every bride was Dona in the early 1900s - 100% of them. It has now become common and shows respect, no different than Mr. Coelho or Mrs. Johnson. But in the older church records, before 1910, it is far more sparingly used. It evolved from the early 1600s when it was way more uncommon to being more like today's usage by the time we get to 1910, but still way more uncommon than today. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] use of dona From: nancy jean baptiste fishso...@hotmail.com Date: Tue, April 29, 2014 8:54 am To: azores group azo...@googlegroups.com I think the use of dona can be applied very arbitrarily. I've seen many old records where it appears to be noble families but it's also simply used as a sign of respect.our bankers on Pico always call me Dona Nancy and that's certainly not because of a noble rank! We have a neighbor who is the wife of a professor and she is always referred to as Dona Manuela. Nancy Jean From: pi...@dholmes.com To: azo...@googlegroups.com; dpa...@gmail.com Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] use of dona Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:17:22 -0700 Hi Dano, I just wanted to mention that I have many ancestors who were capitao, alferes, sargento and one tenente, plus another ajudante, not one of them whose wife was called Dona. Mine are from Pico and Terceira - mostly Pico for my military ancestors. I do know they were from old and noble families or some such wording in priest applications. I guess they just didn't get that higher level treatment for some reason. Come to think of it, I even have some Capitao-mor ancestors or sons of my ancestors and still their wives were not dona. But you are right in most cases that on other islands we would see dona for their wives. I guess it's just a quirk on Pico, but dona was certainly found on Pico. I have one single ancestors with dona and she was the wife of an administrator of a vinculo so I guess that finally was enough to qualify. But her mother was not a dona. It came from her husband, yet his mother was not dona either! Since my only comment was about the use of this word, I changed the subject. By the way, your comment about your failing eye sight came as a surprise, since you still show no sign of it preventing you from reading the records well. Impressive, but sorry to hear about that. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618www.dholmes.com -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: use of dona
The word Dona is to show respect to an older woman, it has nothing to do with stature you have or your husband has. I might walk into a house any house and say como vai a Dona da casa or if I see someone I will say como vai a Dona Maria it is a term used allot in S. Miguel On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:17:22 AM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Hi Dano, I just wanted to mention that I have many ancestors who were capitao, alferes, sargento and one tenente, plus another ajudante, not one of them whose wife was called Dona. Mine are from Pico and Terceira - mostly Pico for my military ancestors. I do know they were from old and noble families or some such wording in priest applications. I guess they just didn't get that higher level treatment for some reason. Come to think of it, I even have some Capitao-mor ancestors or sons of my ancestors and still their wives were not dona. But you are right in most cases that on other islands we would see dona for their wives. I guess it's just a quirk on Pico, but dona was certainly found on Pico. I have one single ancestors with dona and she was the wife of an administrator of a vinculo so I guess that finally was enough to qualify. But her mother was not a dona. It came from her husband, yet his mother was not dona either! Since my only comment was about the use of this word, I changed the subject. By the way, your comment about your failing eye sight came as a surprise, since you still show no sign of it preventing you from reading the records well. Impressive, but sorry to hear about that. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage and Death Record help From: Dano dpa...@gmail.com javascript: The obito is not for your Francisco, as he seems to have acquired a new surname, and the high level military title of Captain, not even a full eight years after his marriage, when his occupation was shoemaker. People just did not rise from artisan/craftsmen to the class of Captain ever. Only those of the privileged (noble) class could expect any such appointment, and I don't see any Dom or Dona title for any of the people mentioned. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Family Finder matches
We got four new matches for my father's Family Finder test. So if you haven't checked lately, you might find some new ones, too.Strangely, many of the recent matches the date of the match got changed from the original.For instance, it has been maybe 2 weeks since I last logged in. Each time I log in I set the relationship to "Distant Cousin" if I don't already know exactly how we connect. So each time I log in, if there are any new matches, they will be waiting for me to do that. Yet, these latest four matches are dated about 2 weeks ago and I have maybe 5 newer matches that I had already set for "Distant Cousin." These latest 4 are not at the top of my list as they should be. So there is no other way than to think these other matches got a new date.Of course, it makes zero difference, but is just a curiosity.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Family Finder matches From: p...@dholmes.com Date: Wed, March 26, 2014 4:21 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com I have been checking my and my father's Family Finder matches and noticed there are many new matches that are actually dated as much as 3 years ago.Seems to me that they went through everything and changed their criteria as to what is a match.One strange thing is that I am matching two people (siblings) with Portuguese ancestry that my father doesn't match. I find it hard to believe it is anything other than a mistake by FTDNA, because they have 100% Portuguese (Mainland) ancestry and I suspect one ancestor moved over from the Azores to the continent.So it might pay to check your matches again.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com -- -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Simas DNA
To all people with Simas ancestors,I'm wondering how many of you have done the Family Finder DNA test.If you have Simas ancestors and don't match me, I am just curious about it.For instance, I know Herb Silva has some Simas and so does John Raposo. Herb got the Family Finder test and isn't showing as a match to me. Neither does John Raposo, but I don't know if he got the test yet. I think Cheri Mello has a remote Simas ancestor and doesn't match me, either. I believe Altino once wrote me about his Simas ancestors and we don't match, if he got the test.Simas in the Azores traces back, usually, to Domingos de Simas from Spain. He settled in Nordeste in the late 1500s. From there, Simas spread out around Sao Miguel. But one son headed off to Pico and if you have Simas from Pico, chances are we could match that way, because it's more recent.So we are talking about people born 400 years ago and usually beyond the range for showing any connection. But since my Simas is from my Pico ancestry where I have a recent 1st cousin marriage, that acts as a multiplier, maybe a 2X multiplier, and we get matches way beyond the normal 200 year time frame.Many of my matches have Lajes do Pico ancestors and I know some have Simas ancestors. But due to the lack of older records from the church in Lajes, we can't find the connections. We can still assume they exist and somehow DNA evidence is showing we do have some sort of link.Anyway, speak up publicly on this list or write me privately if you like. It would be interesting to see what we've got.I think the connection is too remote to show a link to anyone with Simas lines that stayed in Sao Miguel. But maybe those people all match each other. And maybe all with Simas on Pico match each other.I would love to find someone with a direct male line assent to this Domingos de Simas. I need to check if any exist on Pico. Then we could do the Y-DNA test on them and that would tell us more about his origins. This is something I'm working on for all my Portuguese ancestors. When I'm ready to type it up, I'll let you know. I recently started something similar on two of my Hungarian ancestral lines which if interested you can find here:www.dholmes.com/balla.htmlwww.dholmes.com/liska.htmlThanks,Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] DNA Relationship of 13 people on list
Hi Robin; Given the Silveira name and that your ancestors are from the same island and village, it would seem we must be related to some degree, however; I have none of your ancestors in my tree, as yet…. I tried looking at your tree on tribal pages but; could not find a Robin Lebo tree. I tried looking under Silveira but; was unable to open any of those listed. Do you have to be a member to see the trees? As for creating a gedcom, depends on which program you use, I’d guess. Which do you use? If you have done a family finder test and if we have a match, it would be automatically posted as long as you have checked that you want it to be posted. You can talk to Cheri about that. If you have done the Family Finder test what name did you do it under? Look forward to hearing from you, Sam in CA (for now) Sent from Windows Mail From: Robin Lebo Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 9:36 PM To: azores@googlegroups.com Sam, I read this list all the time. I've done my DNA test for the female line but not family finder yet. My mother is a Silva p://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: use of dona
I would like to be the voice of my 3rd great grandfather, Francisco Ferreira Drummond, on the use of “Dona” in Portugal and Azores until the XVIII century. On the first volume of his Annaes da Ilha Terceira, on page 19, note n. 5, he writes: “…signal d’estima, que antigamente só era concedido pelos Reis a seus descendentes, e aos ricos homens” In other words: a tribute of respect, in ancient times, given only by the Kings to his descendants, and to the rich man. He also says: “Que diremos hoje à liberdade, e à lisonja com que este appellido se dá.” Here we can see how the use of “Dona” became common at his time – he wrote this around 1830. Besides what he wrote, I can only confirm what others already mentioned. In Portugal, Azores and Brasil, Dona or Senhora, is a respectful and common way to talk to someone older than you. The same doesn't apply to Dom, the old title given to a noble, rich man, this one is out of use in our days. Senhor is the correct and respectful choice one can use. Isabella Baltar myportuguesegen.blogspot.com -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: use of dona
Obrigado, Isabella.I have your ancestor's books. Very valuable. It must be far more special that he's your own ancestor.I was just looking at his tree and see we likely connect through his mother's like of Aguiar. But there is one missing marriage that would prove it. We also might link through Lucas.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: use of "dona" From: Isabella Baltar myportuguese...@gmail.com Date: Tue, April 29, 2014 4:55 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com Cc: John Raposo marra...@yahoo.com, marra...@yahoo.com I would like to be the voice of my 3rd great grandfather, Francisco Ferreira Drummond, on the use of “Dona” in Portugal and Azores until the XVIII century. On the first volume of his Annaes da Ilha Terceira, on page 19, note n. 5, he writes: “…signal d’estima, que antigamente só era concedido pelos Reis a seus descendentes, e aos ricos homens” In other words: a tribute of respect, in ancient times, given only by the Kings to his descendants, and to the rich man. He also says: “Que diremos hoje à liberdade, e à lisonja com que este appellido se dá.” Here we can see how the use of “Dona” became common at his time – he wrote this around 1830. Besides what he wrote, I can only confirm what others already mentioned. In Portugal, Azores and Brasil, Dona or Senhora, is a respectful and common way to talk to someone older than you. The samedoesn'tapply to Dom, the old title given to a noble, rich man, this one is out of use in our days. Senhor is the correct and respectful choice one can use.Isabella Baltarmyportuguesegen.blogspot.com -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: use of dona
I meant this line to read:mother's line of AguiarDoug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: use of "dona" From: p...@dholmes.com Date: Tue, April 29, 2014 5:40 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com, "Isabella Baltar" myportuguese...@gmail.com Obrigado, Isabella.I have your ancestor's books. Very valuable. It must be far more special that he's your own ancestor.I was just looking at his tree and see we likely connect through his mother's like of Aguiar. But there is one missing marriage that would prove it. We also might link through Lucas. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Sebastiao Fernandes Borges and Beatriz de Melo of Altares, Terceira
Hi Gerri,Sebastiao and Beatriz are also my ancestors. In fact, they are the ancestors of a huge percentage of the Altares population.Maybe I've just forgotten, but I don't think we show as a DNA match, do we?By the way, you got the right date of marriage.I'd love to hear from you - in private, if you prefer.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Marriage record help From: Gerri Martin gerrimar...@rocketmail.com Date: Mon, April 28, 2014 7:41 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com I have been staring for an hour - time to ask for help I guess.I think the year is 1671 because of previous entries on page, I think the day is Jan 18th.Groom Joao Coelho, Bride Beatriz de MeloHer parentsSebastiao F Borges and Beatriz de MeloHis parents I cannot read, although I found a family tree on ancestry that says they are Maria Goncalves Jose Rodrigues. I cannot make it out.Hoping someone can confirm my date and help with grooms parentshttp://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712_item1/P28.htmlIt is bottom right page,Thank you so muchGerri -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: use of dona
John, I am not going to disagree w/you and history. Dear António, I am afraid I must disagree with you. You are correct that today, the use of Dona, the use of which is almost universal, is usually used in the formal address of a married or older woman. However, until the end of the 19th/early 20th centuries, it was reserved for propertied and socially promminant women, either in their own right, or through their husbands. I have seen 19th century marriage records of many a young 17 year old Dona... being married to a morgado, or someone whose profession is described as vivendo dos seus bens (in other words, living from his investments). At 17 one is neither old nor married. I have even see a baptism of an infant Dona Maria Isabel, daughter of a Morgado and his wife D. When doing genealogical research one can go through several generations of ancestors who were illiterate peasants. And then all of a sudden in the 18th century one discovers a male ancestor with a very long series of family names and his wife, Dona Efigênia da Silva dos Reis e Mendonça, and one knows that the rest of the research will be easy. If one is researching in S. Miguel or Santa Maria, it is almost a certainty that D. Efigênia's line will be documented in Carlos Machado or Rodrigo Rodrigues all the way back to one of the first settlers of the islands or the Condes de Feira, etc., etc. So, the use of Dona in the last 120 years is as you describe it, but before then, my illiterate barefooted females ancestors, mostly named Maria de Jesus, were not titled Dona by anybody. Tia Maria de Jesus was more likely and Carlos Machado and Rodrigo Rodrigues were not interested in their ancestry. Best regards, John Miranda Raposo On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 3:43 PM, Antonio Roque roqueant...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The word Dona is to show respect to an older woman, it has nothing to do with stature you have or your husband has. I might walk into a house any house and say como vai a Dona da casa or if I see someone I will say como vai a Dona Maria it is a term used allot in S. Miguel On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:17:22 AM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Hi Dano, I just wanted to mention that I have many ancestors who were capitao, alferes, sargento and one tenente, plus another ajudante, not one of them whose wife was called Dona. Mine are from Pico and Terceira - mostly Pico for my military ancestors. I do know they were from old and noble families or some such wording in priest applications. I guess they just didn't get that higher level treatment for some reason. Come to think of it, I even have some Capitao-mor ancestors or sons of my ancestors and still their wives were not dona. But you are right in most cases that on other islands we would see dona for their wives. I guess it's just a quirk on Pico, but dona was certainly found on Pico. I have one single ancestors with dona and she was the wife of an administrator of a vinculo so I guess that finally was enough to qualify. But her mother was not a dona. It came from her husband, yet his mother was not dona either! Since my only comment was about the use of this word, I changed the subject. By the way, your comment about your failing eye sight came as a surprise, since you still show no sign of it preventing you from reading the records well. Impressive, but sorry to hear about that. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage and Death Record help From: Dano dpa...@gmail.com The obito is not for your Francisco, as he seems to have acquired a new surname, and the high level military title of Captain, not even a full eight years after his marriage, when his occupation was shoemaker. People just did not rise from artisan/craftsmen to the class of Captain ever. Only those of the privileged (noble) class could expect any such appointment, and I don't see any Dom or Dona title for any of the people mentioned. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: use of dona
I use the word w/much estima when I say it when the woman I am directing it is poor, middle class or upper class. I guess back then it was the elite that had that right. I used the word dona before the 25 de Abril,1974 revolution On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:55:28 PM UTC-4, Isabella Baltar wrote: I would like to be the voice of my 3rd great grandfather, Francisco Ferreira Drummond, on the use of “Dona” in Portugal and Azores until the XVIII century. On the first volume of his Annaes da Ilha Terceira, on page 19, note n. 5, he writes: “…signal d’estima, que antigamente só era concedido pelos Reis a seus descendentes, e aos ricos homens” In other words: a tribute of respect, in ancient times, given only by the Kings to his descendants, and to the rich man. He also says: “Que diremos hoje à liberdade, e à lisonja com que este appellido se dá.” Here we can see how the use of “Dona” became common at his time – he wrote this around 1830. Besides what he wrote, I can only confirm what others already mentioned. In Portugal, Azores and Brasil, Dona or Senhora, is a respectful and common way to talk to someone older than you. The same doesn't apply to Dom, the old title given to a noble, rich man, this one is out of use in our days. Senhor is the correct and respectful choice one can use. Isabella Baltar myportuguesegen.blogspot.com -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Family Finder matches
Doug, Please don't mislead people on the list. FTDNA doesn't change dates. What you write makes no sense to me or to any DNA admin. If you have a problem with your match dates, direct the question directly to me at my private email or email FTDNA to ask. Customer service will get back to you. Cheri On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 4:20 PM, p...@dholmes.com wrote: We got four new matches for my father's Family Finder test. So if you haven't checked lately, you might find some new ones, too. Strangely, many of the recent matches the date of the match got changed from the original. For instance, it has been maybe 2 weeks since I last logged in. Each time I log in I set the relationship to Distant Cousin if I don't already know exactly how we connect. So each time I log in, if there are any new matches, they will be waiting for me to do that. Yet, these latest four matches are dated about 2 weeks ago and I have maybe 5 newer matches that I had already set for Distant Cousin. These latest 4 are not at the top of my list as they should be. So there is no other way than to think these other matches got a new date. Of course, it makes zero difference, but is just a curiosity. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Family Finder matches From: p...@dholmes.com Date: Wed, March 26, 2014 4:21 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com I have been checking my and my father's Family Finder matches and noticed there are many new matches that are actually dated as much as 3 years ago. Seems to me that they went through everything and changed their criteria as to what is a match. One strange thing is that I am matching two people (siblings) with Portuguese ancestry that my father doesn't match. I find it hard to believe it is anything other than a mistake by FTDNA, because they have 100% Portuguese (Mainland) ancestry and I suspect one ancestor moved over from the Azores to the continent. So it might pay to check your matches again. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com -- -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Santa Maria marriage: Name of groom, Bride and her parents
Maria, The groom is João de Sousa de Resendes, son of Sebastião Jácome de Resendes and Maria da Costa (after her name is written: se casaram solenemente). The bride is Maria da Paixão de Almada, daughter of Antonio de Almada and Catarina de Melo Sebastião Jácome de Resendes descends from Antonio Curvelo, known as Mestre Antonio, Catalão (master Antonio, Catalan - from Catalonia). It´s a very interesting line documented in Rodrigo Rodrigues on chapter 30. Manoel Em terça-feira, 29 de abril de 2014 09h52min00s UTC-3, Maria escreveu: Happily, I stumbled on the marriage of one of Sebastiaom Jacomo de Resendes sons while looking for someone else. I'm not sure if the son's name is Joze or Joao. I researched and found Sebastiaom and Maria did have a son named Joze but this groom's name looked like Joao . http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730_item1/P52.html the mother is Maria Da Costa but can't figure out what it says after her name. (Guessing deceased?) The bride is Antonia (?) de Jesus Rapozo (?)- guessing here Daughter of Joze? De ? And can't figure out the mother of the bride's name or anything after that. I'm guessing at the names of the bride and her parents. Not even sure if the bride's name is Antonia or Maria One NICE THING in this record was I noticed the beautiful signature of Sebastiaom Jacome de Resendes - Amazing! My husband will be so tickled to see his 8 grandfather knew how to write- at least his name. I'm going to use that signature for his foto. Was the marriage 26 June? (1725). Any help would be so appreciated. Maria Elena in Wisconsin Lower left page and upper right http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1708-1730_item1/P52.html Maria Elena -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Family Finder matches
Yeah kind of weird because on the main page it says last match on ex husbands grandmother was 11/1/2013, then you click on matches and I show 12 new matches.and out of those 12 new matches 1 person has a Gedcom. I do hope if these people find out how we connect that they would at least contact us to let us know HOW we connect since they have no gedcoms. On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 6:58 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: Doug, Please don't mislead people on the list. FTDNA doesn't change dates. What you write makes no sense to me or to any DNA admin. If you have a problem with your match dates, direct the question directly to me at my private email or email FTDNA to ask. Customer service will get back to you. Cheri On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 4:20 PM, p...@dholmes.com wrote: We got four new matches for my father's Family Finder test. So if you haven't checked lately, you might find some new ones, too. Strangely, many of the recent matches the date of the match got changed from the original. For instance, it has been maybe 2 weeks since I last logged in. Each time I log in I set the relationship to Distant Cousin if I don't already know exactly how we connect. So each time I log in, if there are any new matches, they will be waiting for me to do that. Yet, these latest four matches are dated about 2 weeks ago and I have maybe 5 newer matches that I had already set for Distant Cousin. These latest 4 are not at the top of my list as they should be. So there is no other way than to think these other matches got a new date. Of course, it makes zero difference, but is just a curiosity. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Family Finder matches From: p...@dholmes.com Date: Wed, March 26, 2014 4:21 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com I have been checking my and my father's Family Finder matches and noticed there are many new matches that are actually dated as much as 3 years ago. Seems to me that they went through everything and changed their criteria as to what is a match. One strange thing is that I am matching two people (siblings) with Portuguese ancestry that my father doesn't match. I find it hard to believe it is anything other than a mistake by FTDNA, because they have 100% Portuguese (Mainland) ancestry and I suspect one ancestor moved over from the Azores to the continent. So it might pay to check your matches again. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com -- -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Marriage record help
Gerri Here is what I make out: !8 january 1671; Joao Coelho son of jose Rodrigues and Maria Gonaclves with Britis de Mello (Beatriz de Melo) daughter of Sebastiao Fernandes Borges and Britis de Mello (Beatriz de Melo). Sorry no diacritics. Hermano Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:41:33 -0700 From: gerrimar...@rocketmail.com To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Marriage record help I have been staring for an hour - time to ask for help I guess. I think the year is 1671 because of previous entries on page, I think the day is Jan 18th. Groom Joao Coelho, Bride Beatriz de Melo Her parents Sebastiao F Borges and Beatriz de Melo His parents I cannot read, although I found a family tree on ancestry that says they are Maria Goncalves Jose Rodrigues. I cannot make it out. Hoping someone can confirm my date and help with grooms parents http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712_item1/P28.html It is bottom right page, Thank you so much Gerri -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Marriage record help
Hello Gerri I messed up on my last post, the brides first name is Catarina. Sorry. Hermano From: lagoe...@hotmail.com To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Marriage record help Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 03:19:53 + Gerri Here is what I make out: !8 january 1671; Joao Coelho son of jose Rodrigues and Maria Gonaclves with Britis de Mello (Beatriz de Melo) daughter of Sebastiao Fernandes Borges and Britis de Mello (Beatriz de Melo). Sorry no diacritics. Hermano Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:41:33 -0700 From: gerrimar...@rocketmail.com To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Marriage record help I have been staring for an hour - time to ask for help I guess. I think the year is 1671 because of previous entries on page, I think the day is Jan 18th. Groom Joao Coelho, Bride Beatriz de Melo Her parents Sebastiao F Borges and Beatriz de Melo His parents I cannot read, although I found a family tree on ancestry that says they are Maria Goncalves Jose Rodrigues. I cannot make it out. Hoping someone can confirm my date and help with grooms parents http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712_item1/P28.html It is bottom right page, Thank you so much Gerri -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Family Finder matches
You see, Cheri.Pam noticed it, too.Let me give you a specific. I believe you can view my father's kit, so when you log in and view the most recent matches, you will see a Mr. Swain with the matching date of 26 April 2014, just three days ago. I first saw him with that date yesterday when he was at the very top and he was already listed by me as Distant Cousin. But I hadn't logged info for maybe 2 weeks, at least. Now he is second from the top, because a new match just came in yesterday after I logged in.Now click on his notes and you see I left myself a note that I sent him email on 9 March. So if my comments are out of line, how do you explain that?OK, I accept your profound apologies. :-)Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Family Finder matches From: Pam Santos pamsanto...@gmail.com Date: Tue, April 29, 2014 7:16 pm To: "azores@googlegroups.com" azores@googlegroups.com Yeah kind of weird because on the main page it says last match on ex husbands grandmother was 11/1/2013, then you click on matches and I show 12 new matches.and out of those 12 new matches 1 person has a Gedcom. I do hope if these people find out how we connect that they would at least contact us to let us know HOW we connect since they have no gedcoms. On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 6:58 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: Doug,Please don't mislead people on the list. FTDNA doesn't change dates. What you write makes no sense to me or to any DNA admin.If you have a problem with your match dates, direct the question directly to me at my private email or email FTDNA to ask. Customer service will get back to you. Cheri -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
