Re: [backstage] iMP and alternative models to DRM
On Fri, 9 Dec 2005, Al Petfield wrote: I think it would be great if there was a meritocracy whereby artists were paid in proportion to their popularity but I don't suppose record companies would be too happy to see the link between artist and audience become so transparent! The unit based music/video industry already sort of has this. Its called a bargain bin and contains stuff like the Wurzels, CW music, unknown US action movie DVDs, etc that folk won't stump up large bundles of cash to listen to/watch. Jim'll - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP and alternative models to DRM
I like this idea in theory but, and putting data protection aside, what is to stop people just cracking the revenue share info (or 5 'idle' PCs playing my songs on loop for that matter) and earning themselves lots of money? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Kerswill Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 11:55 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] iMP and alternative models to DRM Hi backstage people, I'm a bit of a lurker on the list and have been catching up! Especially on the iMP and how its DRM has apparently been cracked. Someone mentioned alternatives to DRM and I just thought I'd throw something I've been thinking about into the melting pot. I was thinking of it in terms of the music industry mainly, but it would be applicable to any kind of content. Rather than stopping people listing to what they want by using DRM, how about every user paying a license which allows them to listen to any music, but then sample / monitor what they listen to. For example - last.fm tracks what I am listening to on iTunes, whether it's a CD, a download from iTunes, or a bit of music from a website. Taking all the data, you can build a profile of who's listening to what music. You can then split the revenue from the license amongst all content creators, depending on how much their content has been listened to. Just like the PRS does with radio airplay. Going back to the iMP. As it is really an extension of a radio / tv player --- albeit one where the user chooses when and what content they listen to --- why not just treat it like any other TV / radio / content channel? Sample what everyone is listening to and pay royalties based on that? I know that this is a huge simplification --- and probably licensing laws for old content don't allow it --- but surely in the future this is going to be the simplest way to do it? Because it does always seem that people work out how to crack DRMs eventually... ... even if the cracking is as low-tech as simply plugging an mp3 player into the phono output of your computer while playing a BBC show. Tom - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP and alternative models to DRM
interesting, but would people not try to get around paying? or one pays and shares the goods. and do heavy users pay the same as light users ? another Tom Tom Kerswill wrote: Good point! Hopefully that kind of thing would be fairly easy to pick up though :-) I suppose it's a bit like chart-rigging or spamming Google or anything else - a bit of a pain but hopefully possible to get around it. Tom David Sargeant wrote: I like this idea in theory but, and putting data protection aside, what is to stop people just cracking the revenue share info (or 5 'idle' PCs playing my songs on loop for that matter) and earning themselves lots of money? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Kerswill Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 11:55 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] iMP and alternative models to DRM Hi backstage people, I'm a bit of a lurker on the list and have been catching up! Especially on the iMP and how its DRM has apparently been cracked. Someone mentioned alternatives to DRM and I just thought I'd throw something I've been thinking about into the melting pot. I was thinking of it in terms of the music industry mainly, but it would be applicable to any kind of content. Rather than stopping people listing to what they want by using DRM, how about every user paying a license which allows them to listen to any music, but then sample / monitor what they listen to. For example - last.fm tracks what I am listening to on iTunes, whether it's a CD, a download from iTunes, or a bit of music from a website. Taking all the data, you can build a profile of who's listening to what music. You can then split the revenue from the license amongst all content creators, depending on how much their content has been listened to. Just like the PRS does with radio airplay. Going back to the iMP. As it is really an extension of a radio / tv player --- albeit one where the user chooses when and what content they listen to --- why not just treat it like any other TV / radio / content channel? Sample what everyone is listening to and pay royalties based on that? I know that this is a huge simplification --- and probably licensing laws for old content don't allow it --- but surely in the future this is going to be the simplest way to do it? Because it does always seem that people work out how to crack DRMs eventually... ... even if the cracking is as low-tech as simply plugging an mp3 player into the phono output of your computer while playing a BBC show. Tom - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP and alternative models to DRM
Hi Tom, I am another lurker here I think that the music business and entertainment business will have to eventually behave like any normal retailer does. Can you imagine buying a chain-saw and then paying an extra royalty for every piece of wood that you cut? Well as a member of the public that is what is being asked by paying more every time you access and pay for the same content that others have heard on first hearing for free. It is far better for everyone to pay a fair price upfront, a price that reflects the owners desire to make money once any digital content is released it will always follow its own route through the public domain. If you are a professional user of content then your own desire to earn money should help protect others in the similar business, that said musicians and film directors have been stealing whole songs, sounds and ideas off each other for decades. That is why they have lawyers. DRM will always be a no go area.. it really is an impossible task to control. Hope this makes some sense Richard On 8 Dec 2005, at 13:53, tom coombs wrote: interesting, but would people not try to get around paying? or one pays and shares the goods. and do heavy users pay the same as light users ? another Tom Tom Kerswill wrote: Good point! Hopefully that kind of thing would be fairly easy to pick up though :-) I suppose it's a bit like chart-rigging or spamming Google or anything else - a bit of a pain but hopefully possible to get around it. Tom David Sargeant wrote: I like this idea in theory but, and putting data protection aside, what is to stop people just cracking the revenue share info (or 5 'idle' PCs playing my songs on loop for that matter) and earning themselves lots of money? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Kerswill Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 11:55 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] iMP and alternative models to DRM Hi backstage people, I'm a bit of a lurker on the list and have been catching up! Especially on the iMP and how its DRM has apparently been cracked. Someone mentioned alternatives to DRM and I just thought I'd throw something I've been thinking about into the melting pot. I was thinking of it in terms of the music industry mainly, but it would be applicable to any kind of content. Rather than stopping people listing to what they want by using DRM, how about every user paying a license which allows them to listen to any music, but then sample / monitor what they listen to. For example - last.fm tracks what I am listening to on iTunes, whether it's a CD, a download from iTunes, or a bit of music from a website. Taking all the data, you can build a profile of who's listening to what music. You can then split the revenue from the license amongst all content creators, depending on how much their content has been listened to. Just like the PRS does with radio airplay. Going back to the iMP. As it is really an extension of a radio / tv player --- albeit one where the user chooses when and what content they listen to --- why not just treat it like any other TV / radio / content channel? Sample what everyone is listening to and pay royalties based on that? I know that this is a huge simplification --- and probably licensing laws for old content don't allow it --- but surely in the future this is going to be the simplest way to do it? Because it does always seem that people work out how to crack DRMs eventually... ... even if the cracking is as low-tech as simply plugging an mp3 player into the phono output of your computer while playing a BBC show. Tom - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/ 2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http:// www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/ 2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http:// www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http
Re: [backstage] iMP and alternative models to DRM
tom coombs wrote: interesting, but would people not try to get around paying? or one pays and shares the goods. Yes... a bit like the TV license I suppose. But you can imagine a situation in which a music content license was as ubiquitous as the TV license. I mean, if there are about 50 million music listeners in the UK, a tenner per month each pays for quite a lot of musicians ;-) Okay, I'm getting a little simplistic and off-topic here! and do heavy users pay the same as light users ? another Tom Tom Kerswill wrote: Good point! Hopefully that kind of thing would be fairly easy to pick up though :-) I suppose it's a bit like chart-rigging or spamming Google or anything else - a bit of a pain but hopefully possible to get around it. Tom David Sargeant wrote: I like this idea in theory but, and putting data protection aside, what is to stop people just cracking the revenue share info (or 5 'idle' PCs playing my songs on loop for that matter) and earning themselves lots of money? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Kerswill Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 11:55 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] iMP and alternative models to DRM Hi backstage people, I'm a bit of a lurker on the list and have been catching up! Especially on the iMP and how its DRM has apparently been cracked. Someone mentioned alternatives to DRM and I just thought I'd throw something I've been thinking about into the melting pot. I was thinking of it in terms of the music industry mainly, but it would be applicable to any kind of content. Rather than stopping people listing to what they want by using DRM, how about every user paying a license which allows them to listen to any music, but then sample / monitor what they listen to. For example - last.fm tracks what I am listening to on iTunes, whether it's a CD, a download from iTunes, or a bit of music from a website. Taking all the data, you can build a profile of who's listening to what music. You can then split the revenue from the license amongst all content creators, depending on how much their content has been listened to. Just like the PRS does with radio airplay. Going back to the iMP. As it is really an extension of a radio / tv player --- albeit one where the user chooses when and what content they listen to --- why not just treat it like any other TV / radio / content channel? Sample what everyone is listening to and pay royalties based on that? I know that this is a huge simplification --- and probably licensing laws for old content don't allow it --- but surely in the future this is going to be the simplest way to do it? Because it does always seem that people work out how to crack DRMs eventually... ... even if the cracking is as low-tech as simply plugging an mp3 player into the phono output of your computer while playing a BBC show. Tom - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP and alternative models to DRM
Tom, Perhaps the 'unit' is the key. We're moving away from the physical unit to pure data. I remember when CD's came out that there were some people who felt a little short-changed, in terms of the difference in 'commodity' between a 12 vinyl LP and the smaller CD. Nowadays people are happy to download data and not bother with any tangible item. At the moment we still require a file, to load on to an iPod or burn a CD but will this necessarily be the case in the future? What if high speed wireless connections were ubiquitous? Would there be any need to own the file if you could just stream it from a server* to whatever device - personal stereo, hifi, car stereo - that you want to hear it from? Perhaps in the not-too-distant future, record companies will have morphed into musical content providers and we will subscribe to different channels (be they channels for individual artists, groups of similar artists or a particular genre of music). On preview: Yes, like a TV license - we pay a fixed rate irrespective of how much content we actually consume. I think it would be great if there was a meritocracy whereby artists were paid in proportion to their popularity but I don't suppose record companies would be too happy to see the link between artist and audience become so transparent! Al *Tangential side note: Given that the volume of data being stored is climbing, and that this data has to sit on a server somewhere consuming precious energy, perhaps in the future there will be a tax on data and it will be essential to share files from a single source rather than wastefully having duplicate files in a number of different places. On 12/8/05, Tom Kerswill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: tom coombs wrote: interesting, but would people not try to get around paying? or one pays and shares the goods. Yes... a bit like the TV license I suppose. But you can imagine a situation in which a music content license was as ubiquitous as the TV license. I mean, if there are about 50 million music listeners in the UK, a tenner per month each pays for quite a lot of musicians ;-) Okay, I'm getting a little simplistic and off-topic here! and do heavy users pay the same as light users ? another Tom Tom Kerswill wrote: Good point! Hopefully that kind of thing would be fairly easy to pick up though :-) I suppose it's a bit like chart-rigging or spamming Google or anything else - a bit of a pain but hopefully possible to get around it. Tom David Sargeant wrote: I like this idea in theory but, and putting data protection aside, what is to stop people just cracking the revenue share info (or 5 'idle' PCs playing my songs on loop for that matter) and earning themselves lots of money? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Kerswill Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 11:55 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] iMP and alternative models to DRM Hi backstage people, I'm a bit of a lurker on the list and have been catching up! Especially on the iMP and how its DRM has apparently been cracked. Someone mentioned alternatives to DRM and I just thought I'd throw something I've been thinking about into the melting pot. I was thinking of it in terms of the music industry mainly, but it would be applicable to any kind of content. Rather than stopping people listing to what they want by using DRM, how about every user paying a license which allows them to listen to any music, but then sample / monitor what they listen to. For example - last.fm tracks what I am listening to on iTunes, whether it's a CD, a download from iTunes, or a bit of music from a website. Taking all the data, you can build a profile of who's listening to what music. You can then split the revenue from the license amongst all content creators, depending on how much their content has been listened to. Just like the PRS does with radio airplay. Going back to the iMP. As it is really an extension of a radio / tv player --- albeit one where the user chooses when and what content they listen to --- why not just treat it like any other TV / radio / content channel? Sample what everyone is listening to and pay royalties based on that? I know that this is a huge simplification --- and probably licensing laws for old content don't allow it --- but surely in the future this is going to be the simplest way to do it? Because it does always seem that people work out how to crack DRMs eventually... ... even if the cracking is as low-tech as simply plugging an mp3 player into the phono output of your computer while playing a BBC show. Tom - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail
RE: [backstage] iMP issue
BBC Worldwide Limited is company, wholly owned by the BBC, that sells BBC merchandise (e.g. video and audio recordings of BBC programmes, books, magazines, toys and games). They're primarily there to hold the rights to BBC productions for commercial exploitation - ie, for rebroadcast internationally, for DVD release, and for repeat on non-BBC channels in the UK. They then re-invest in the public service bit of the BBC on a production-by-production basis; ie, putting money in if they think a show has strong commercial potential after its public service 'free' life. It's all a bit complicated, and I only vaguely understand the arrangement. And you're not wrong, Nico - the political and economic issues about the idea would be... large. K - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP issue
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005, Luke Dicken wrote: Umm...the BBC aren't allowed to take money from advertising are they? Andy That's what I'd have thought. And it jolly nice to have one major media outlet on the web that *isn't* stuffing your browser full of banner ads, targetted popups, etc, etc. Long may my membership fee (aka telly licence) keep it that way. Jim'll - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP issue
Hi, On 11/24/05, Kirk Northrop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andy Hawkins wrote: Umm...the BBC aren't allowed to take money from advertising are they? No... but BBC Worldwide are... Ah. Ok. Andy - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP issue
Hi, On 11/24/05, Nico Morrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Time for my 2 p - been monitoring this list since it started - has noone suggested that the Beeb use their extraordinary visibility 'customer base' to emulate Google on a paid ad basis? Umm...the BBC aren't allowed to take money from advertising are they? Andy - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP issue
On 11/24/05, Nico Morrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Time for my 2 p - been monitoring this list since it started - has noone suggested that the Beeb use their extraordinary visibility 'customer base' to emulate Google on a paid ad basis? Umm...the BBC aren't allowed to take money from advertising are they? Andy That's what I'd have thought. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP issue
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:06:34 + Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Don't even *think* about telling me what I should and shouldn't support this is not about you its about what is a good codec to use for the BBC's IMP system , a system that is supposed to be platform agnostic . Anything from microsoft is out from the start as it is not platform agnostic. simple logic. 2 3 error these questions are unworthy of response. Try looking at products produced by a company as individual pieces of software/programmes (as opposed to programs)/initiatives, and taking each on its own merits. You never know, you might broaden your mind a little. you can't take them on their merits when they are designed and implimented as a cohesive mesh of interlocking non-standards . Toodle-pip Amias - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP issue
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 08:22:53 + Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/13/05, Adam Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a bigger problem as iMP is using standard Microsoft WMA DRM files. As this is widely used, there are more people interested in bypassing the DRM system, and so eventually it will always be bypassed, Fair enough DRM is a waste of time IMHO , the time would be better spent working out a revenue model that allowed free delivery of content . plus its created by Microsoft. Right. Could someone explain to me exactly why this is a problem? Widely used, so an obvious target for bypassing - yes, I'll go along with that. Created by Microsoft - no, that's not a problem. Had you said Created by Microsoft and has inherent security flaws as demonstrated by link, link, link and this paper here written by whoever, then yes, that would be a valid point. Simply slating something because it's created by one manufacturer is not. I might not like Volvo cars, but I don't feel the need to slag off the airbag at every possible vaguely related opportunity. er , you 'forgot' the lockins where its very hard / illegal for users of other systems to gain access to documents / media produced by M$ formats and don't get me started on the forced upgrades for profit stuff either. That is enough for me and a growing number of people to ignore microsoft formats out of hand. Try standing up for a company people like instead. Toodle-pip Amias - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP issue
Shame; even thought I hate DRM, I know that PHBs love it, and if they cant work it, it means the Beeb might scram iMP :(On 13/11/05, Dave Whitehead [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems BBC may have a problem with the iMP trial, apparently it's possible to get round the DRM thus taking away the watch within 7days restriction source - http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.tech.digital-tv
Re: [backstage] iMP issue
This is a bigger problem as iMP is using standard Microsoft WMA DRM files. As this is widely used, there are more people interested in bypassing the DRM system, and so eventually it will always be bypassed, plus its created by Microsoft. Other codecs are less widely used and known about, so in theory should be more secure. With the BBC providing the shows for free, there is less of a reason to crack the codecs, although someone is always going to try it. Adam vijay chopra wrote: Shame; even thought I hate DRM, I know that PHBs love it, and if they cant work it, it means the Beeb might scram iMP :( On 13/11/05, *Dave Whitehead* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems BBC may have a problem with the iMP trial, apparently it's possible to get round the DRM thus taking away the watch within 7days restriction source - http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.tech.digital-tv http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.tech.digital-tv - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP issue
And this is why people don't like DRM: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/13/1419206tid=233 With crazy restrictions like that, can you really blame people for trying bypass it?On 13/11/05, Dave Whitehead [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Problem is they will be free to UK tv licence payers, there will be insentive for people outside the UK to try and bypass itDave- Original Message -From: Adam Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 2:49 PMSubject: Re: [backstage] iMP issue This is a bigger problem as iMP is using standard Microsoft WMA DRM files.As this is widely used, there are more people interested in bypassing the DRM system, and so eventually it will always be bypassed, plus its created by Microsoft. Other codecs are less widely used and known about, so in theory should be more secure.With the BBC providing the shows for free, there is less of a reason to crack the codecs, although someone is always going to try it. Adam vijay chopra wrote: Shame; even thought I hate DRM, I know that PHBs love it, and if they cant work it, it means the Beeb might scram iMP :( On 13/11/05, *Dave Whitehead* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems BBC may have a problem with the iMP trial, apparently it's possible to get round the DRM thus taking away the watch within 7days restriction source - http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.tech.digital-tv http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.tech.digital-tv - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.To unsubscribe, pleasevisit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/-Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP
At 16:35 + 9/11/05, Ben Metcalfe wrote: Just to say that a lot of BBC radio content (and soon TV) can be downloaded via iTunes or direct from the BBC website. You can also get all BBC radio streamed via the website Let us assume we are taking about the national radio (e.g. Radio 4 or 6 Music) and local radio (e.g. BBC Radio London). What proportion of all BBC Radio output can be downloaded via iTunes (podcasting)? Personally, I download In Out Time and the 8:10 interview from the Today Programme (both from Radio 4). As for TV, my fave video download (via iTunes) is currently http://www.rocketboom.com/ (just had its first birthday). Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
Betsie's days are no doubt numbered - modern coding techniques allow much greater accessibility to be built into webpages, allowing accessibility without having to resort to parsers like Betsie. You can do a huge amount with a sensible HTML structure and CSS layout/presenation techniques. I assume that y'all have read the code (of BETSIE)? Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP
Just to say that a lot of BBC radio content (and soon TV) can be downloaded via iTunes or direct from the BBC website. You can also get all BBC radio streamed via the website -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Millie Niss Sent: 08 November 2005 05:08 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iMP I don't know exactly what iMP is, so I hope I am not totally off-base here... However, I am a (US) American who would defnitely be willing to pay (if the price were reasonable) for BBC content. My main interest is the radio programming, which someone here said isn't a problem to distribute, but I am also somewhat interested in BBC TV. Right now, I cannot even get The World Service Radio in English _on the radio_ during most of the day. The World Service is broadcast for only a few hours a day on my local public radio station (this actually means private, non commercial -- US Public Radio is nonprofit but privately owned operated, supported by individual and corporate donations and a very small amount of indirect government subsidies). In the past, Americans could get World Service radio directly from the BBC on other bands (MW or LW), but now that isn't beamend towards the U.S. The web site provides streaming and some on-demand access to programs, but not full archives or downloadable versions of most programs. (I have enjoyed the podcasting trial of From Our Own Correspondent, for example, but that is an experiment.) I quite understand that the BBC is funded by UK Licensing fees and that they cannot afford to offer me all the services for free that license-payers get for their money. But I would be happy to pay for my content if I could afford it. After all, I donate money to my public radio stations and pay for cable TV and Internet access, so I am accustomed to paying for media content. I cannot get the BBC content at any price right now, at least not easily. (One issue is that I do not have broadband, so that maybe iMP would not help me. Broadband is much more prevalent in Europe and Asia than in the U.S., and so what I really want is to get my BBC content on the radio and TV!) Is the BBC Radio (and if so, which stations?) available on satellite radio? That is quite expensive impractical (especially for non automobile use) still but I'd consider subscribing to satellite radio if I could get the World Service and Radio 4. Millie - Original Message - From: James [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [backstage] iMP Releasing iMP to the world would almost end piracy of the BBC's content. Releasing it to the UK would still keep all the BBC's content available over the net through the standard ways. What better way to maintain control and quality than to irradicate the need for piracy of BBC content..? I actually wouldn't object to paying for this as a seperate service and I wouldnt be suprised if this is not the way forward for non-uk citizens. Seems fair enough, we pay our £££ per year and if Joel from America wants it, he can but it'll cost him a percentage of the standard lic. fee. Andrew Bowden wrote: I'm at work so I can't check at the moment, but ISTR that my telly licence has a unique reference number with it. This is going back a few years (say about 3-4). I used to buy my license from the old Post Office, and those didn't have a unique number on them. The ones you get sent by TV Licensing do. Hmm, I didn't know that. I wonder how you get them to move the licence to a new property when you move house if you don't have a licence number? The online form[1] has the licence number as a required field. I remember filling in that form back in October 2001 and thinking exactly the same! IIRC, I just put down that I had no license number. But there wasn't a knock on my door, and when it came up for renewal, the letter came from the right address. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http
RE: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
At 14:04 + 9/11/05, Andrew Bowden wrote: Betsie is a bull in a sledgehammer/nut approach to accessibility from a time when that was the only way to crack the nut. Now, someone has invented the nutcracker. Of course not everyone yet has a nutcracker so we still need the sledgehammer, but it's role is increasing. What Betsie does - specifically its rearranging of navigation to be at the bottom - was necessary for the time, but that rearrangement can be done within the HTML very easily (that's how I build my own webpages - so when you turn off CSS, content at the top, navigation at the bottom). Conversion of colours etc, is even easier with CSS. These things can be automatically built into a page without needing standalone parsers. All true... http://sourceforge.net/projects/betsie Better close that down first then? Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP
The BBC World Service is on both XM and Sirius, and BBC Radio 1 is timeshifted on Sirius (so that the breakfast show is on at breakfast time etc). I don't believe that Radio 4 is on any of the services. On 11/8/05, Millie Niss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know exactly what iMP is, so I hope I am not totally off-base here... However, I am a (US) American who would defnitely be willing to pay (if the price were reasonable) for BBC content. My main interest is the radio programming, which someone here said isn't a problem to distribute, but I am also somewhat interested in BBC TV. Right now, I cannot even get The World Service Radio in English _on the radio_ during most of the day. The World Service is broadcast for only a few hours a day on my local public radio station (this actually means private, non commercial -- US Public Radio is nonprofit but privately owned operated, supported by individual and corporate donations and a very small amount of indirect government subsidies). In the past, Americans could get World Service radio directly from the BBC on other bands (MW or LW), but now that isn't beamend towards the U.S. The web site provides streaming and some on-demand access to programs, but not full archives or downloadable versions of most programs. (I have enjoyed the podcasting trial of From Our Own Correspondent, for example, but that is an experiment.) I quite understand that the BBC is funded by UK Licensing fees and that they cannot afford to offer me all the services for free that license-payers get for their money. But I would be happy to pay for my content if I could afford it. After all, I donate money to my public radio stations and pay for cable TV and Internet access, so I am accustomed to paying for media content. I cannot get the BBC content at any price right now, at least not easily. (One issue is that I do not have broadband, so that maybe iMP would not help me. Broadband is much more prevalent in Europe and Asia than in the U.S., and so what I really want is to get my BBC content on the radio and TV!) Is the BBC Radio (and if so, which stations?) available on satellite radio? That is quite expensive impractical (especially for non automobile use) still but I'd consider subscribing to satellite radio if I could get the World Service and Radio 4. Millie - Original Message - From: James [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [backstage] iMP Releasing iMP to the world would almost end piracy of the BBC's content. Releasing it to the UK would still keep all the BBC's content available over the net through the standard ways. What better way to maintain control and quality than to irradicate the need for piracy of BBC content..? I actually wouldn't object to paying for this as a seperate service and I wouldnt be suprised if this is not the way forward for non-uk citizens. Seems fair enough, we pay our £££ per year and if Joel from America wants it, he can but it'll cost him a percentage of the standard lic. fee. Andrew Bowden wrote: I'm at work so I can't check at the moment, but ISTR that my telly licence has a unique reference number with it. This is going back a few years (say about 3-4). I used to buy my license from the old Post Office, and those didn't have a unique number on them. The ones you get sent by TV Licensing do. Hmm, I didn't know that. I wonder how you get them to move the licence to a new property when you move house if you don't have a licence number? The online form[1] has the licence number as a required field. I remember filling in that form back in October 2001 and thinking exactly the same! IIRC, I just put down that I had no license number. But there wasn't a knock on my door, and when it came up for renewal, the letter came from the right address. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
Thanks for the screenshots James. So unless they just ripped the graphics from WMP (possible but unlikely) it's using that as an embedded client. It could be worth trying some of the standard WM player keyboard shortcuts, eg F9/F10 for volume, ALT+ENTER for full screen, and see if it intercepts them. The skin might need to be specifically coded to hand those events to the player. I suppose the questions are - what's the broadcast stream format (is it WMV or some more globally viewable content like MP4). And is it DRM protected, which would definitely prevent Mac** or Linux users, or any other OS, from viewing the content. Cheers - Neil ** Well, Mac media player supports early v4 DRM but they're up to v7 now and that's completely broken on the Mac WMP - and not looking to be updated by all appearances. Unless the beeb can apply some leverage wink / At 00:38 08/11/2005, you wrote: Here's a few screenies: http://www.webcoding.co.uk/imp/ Note that you can actually play the DRM'd files in Media Player itself, it doesnt have to go through the iMP player design. All the video's can be fast forwarded etc without issue. Jim. Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media] wrote: At 12:01 07/11/2005, you wrote: Since it's a testing beta more aimed at testing the technology and the idea I'm sure the accessibility elements will come in when it's out. The boards suggest a limited budget to examine this idea and that's why we havent seen a linux or mac client and I suspect the same can be applied to a complete design and other related issues. I missed getting on the Beta due to being out of the country. But my impression was it uses a skinned windows media player. I could be wrong. If I'm not though, any inherent limitations of WMP (broken, mostly on Mac, and not available for unixes) would be present. Thoughts ? Cheers - Neil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/ Why is there no text only link on this page? There is on most pages on bbc.co.uk... Feel free to use this! http://www.recursion.co.uk/cgi-bin/betsie.cgi/www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/ No charge! Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005, James wrote: Here's a few screenies: http://www.webcoding.co.uk/imp/ Note that you can actually play the DRM'd files in Media Player itself, it doesnt have to go through the iMP player design. All the video's can be fast forwarded etc without issue. With all this DRMed fun, I assume that something stops folk from just screen capturing the rendered output and turning it back into an un-DRMed MPEG2 stream? I'm not a windows user, but a quick Google threw up URL:http://www.hmelyoff.com/index.php?section=4 as a possible tool to let you do this; I'm sure there are others (I know years ago my old SGI Indy workstation with the CosmoCompress video capture card let me grab movies from random sections of the screen, so this is nothing new). Jim'll - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/ Why is there no text only link on this page? There is on most pages on bbc.co.uk... Probably because it has accessibility features built into the page itself, which allow the presentation in a similar way to what Betsie provides, and in some aspects, beyond. Just my educated guess - not sure if anyone who built that site is on this list, to say for sure. Feel free to use this! http://www.recursion.co.uk/cgi-bin/betsie.cgi/www.bbc.co.uk/accessibilit y/ Of course the BBC's Betsie can still be used http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/education/betsie/parser.pl/www.bbc.co.uk/ac cessibility Betsie's days are no doubt numbered - modern coding techniques allow much greater accessibility to be built into webpages, allowing accessibility without having to resort to parsers like Betsie. You can do a huge amount with a sensible HTML structure and CSS layout/presenation techniques. Andrew http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
Because it's written entirely in standards compliant code, with CSS, so can be rendered using a user-applied stylesheet, I think? I've heard - and this is just on the internal bush telegraph, nothing official, that betsie is slowly being phased out in favour of fully accessible coding of pages. I think it's getting a bit long in the tooth and there are load issues, but I could be wrong. K -Original Message- From: Gordon Joly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 November 2005 10:08 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Cc: Kim Plowright; Jonathan Chetwynd Subject: RE: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad? http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/ Why is there no text only link on this page? There is on most pages on bbc.co.uk... Feel free to use this! http://www.recursion.co.uk/cgi-bin/betsie.cgi/www.bbc.co.uk/accessibilit y/ No charge! Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP
-Original Message- Liked it very much, interesting URI - had a peek with etherpeek! Wanted to know if there is any thought given to API's and such which will allow for any interfacing should this go 'gold'. The intergrated media player is cool but essentially unusable if you plan on working and watching stuff at the same time because of the graphical border edges. Don't worry, an API into the iMP is something I'm advocating to the powers as be here in BBC towers... There's certainly all sorts of exciting opportunities here. Can say much more at the moment, but, yes, it's something on my radar. Ben Backstage.bbc.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP
You're *such* a terror. :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Chetwynd Sent: 04 November 2005 16:19 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iMP Kim, I'd just like to correct your suggestion that we only execute internal candidates, in fact we're open to anybody and that is why details are circulated on the BBC Backstage list. There was a slight mix-up on the day they appeared, as the BBC Snuff team inadvertently forgot to flag them as externally visible. Some list members kindly made me aware of this, and the problem was fixed on the same day. Unfortunately the closing date for applications has now passed, so the posts are no longer on the BBC Snuff site. However, new opportunities are often posted in the same area, so keep an eye on it if you are interested. Furthermore, I must address your implication of unfairness in our selection strategy, specifically the favouring of 'friends' over other candidates. This is absolutely not the case, we follow a rigorous fair selection process when firing all of our staff, and this was no exception. I hope this has cleared up any misunderstanding that may have occurred, and I apologise if I was not clear in any of my previous emails about this matter. All the best, ~: ps if you know what this means, please let me know, I'm only the designer. Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and the Internet 29 Crimsworth Road SW8 4RJ 020 7978 1764 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
I don't know about exactly how they've taken accessibility into account on iMP - maybe take the question to the message board posted here earlier? I'll ask Priya on your behalf if I see her around, though. I can't imagine for a second it's been ignored, but I suppose there's a possibility that they haven't completed all the work on it in the beta? Here's some official-ly stuff about what we do: Re accessibility in general, we do have best practice in place: http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/bbc/standards.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/newmedia/accessibility/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/ We also work with AbilityNet on accessibility; they also run *amazing* training courses for us, which all producers and coders in our department went to; it's humbling watching someone surf your site with a screenreader, certainly. http://www.abilitynet.org.uk/ From my point of view - accessibility is always something I take in to account; it makes sites/products more accessible to *everyone*, not just those who use alternative access methods. Great believer in common sense, me... k -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Chetwynd Sent: 05 November 2005 08:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad? iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad? Does anyone have links to positive reports on the accessibility of iMP? According to: http://cms.elfden.co.uk/2005/10/18/bbc-imp-trial-part-1/ Accessibility wise it stinks. No keyboard access what so ever. Who is responsible for accessibility at iMP and which groups representing people with disabilities were invited to comment? Could this be an integral part of the BBC's regular best practice? cheers! Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and the Internet 29 Crimsworth Road SW8 4RJ 020 7978 1764 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
Since it's a testing beta more aimed at testing the technology and the idea I'm sure the accessibility elements will come in when it's out. The boards suggest a limited budget to examine this idea and that's why we havent seen a linux or mac client and I suspect the same can be applied to a complete design and other related issues. Kim Plowright wrote: I don't know about exactly how they've taken accessibility into account on iMP - maybe take the question to the message board posted here earlier? I'll ask Priya on your behalf if I see her around, though. I can't imagine for a second it's been ignored, but I suppose there's a possibility that they haven't completed all the work on it in the beta? Here's some official-ly stuff about what we do: Re accessibility in general, we do have best practice in place: http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/bbc/standards.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/newmedia/accessibility/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/ We also work with AbilityNet on accessibility; they also run *amazing* training courses for us, which all producers and coders in our department went to; it's humbling watching someone surf your site with a screenreader, certainly. http://www.abilitynet.org.uk/ From my point of view - accessibility is always something I take in to account; it makes sites/products more accessible to *everyone*, not just those who use alternative access methods. Great believer in common sense, me... k -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Chetwynd Sent: 05 November 2005 08:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad? iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad? Does anyone have links to positive reports on the accessibility of iMP? According to: http://cms.elfden.co.uk/2005/10/18/bbc-imp-trial-part-1/ Accessibility wise it stinks. No keyboard access what so ever. Who is responsible for accessibility at iMP and which groups representing people with disabilities were invited to comment? Could this be an integral part of the BBC's regular best practice? cheers! Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and the Internet 29 Crimsworth Road SW8 4RJ 020 7978 1764 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP
On Mon, 7 Nov 2005, Angelo wrote: How long do you foresee the trials taking place for before it is released onto the UK market? Also, I assume the basic technology will prevent those from outside the UK viewing the content on imp, but how will you be able to distinguish between those who have and have not paid their licence fee? Or, will it be the case that those who log on without a licence fee will just be breaking the law? I'm at work so I can't check at the moment, but ISTR that my telly licence has a unique reference number with it. Make that something that you have to put into iMP. Don't pay your telly licence and the number no longer lets you get anything other than the radio stuff (which I think you don't need a licence for these days, right?). The Beeb can use concurrency checking to make sure that 3000 people all over the UK aren't simultaneously using the same licence number (but you'd need to allow some concurrency to allow for multiple sets and family members in the same house using it, possible mobile). Jim'll - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
I can see it now - a site for appraising weather forecasts: IsItHotOrNot.com On 11/7/05, Mark Simpkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about a 'Rate this weather' option? Just grade how accurate you thought the weather forcast was for your area. Mark. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Murray Walker Sent: 07 November 2005 13:05 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad? -Original Message- From: Gordon Joly (Ignore that fact that temperatures forecast may differ by as much as 5 degrees C:-) Reminds me of an old idea... Weather from Yahoo, BBC, Met Office all regularly seem to differ quite widely, based purely on personal subjective checking. So... * Poll sites on a regular basis and log, * add after the fact data on what it actually turned out to be * build stats on accuracy obviously hard to do nationally, but I keep meaning to do it for my local area. And/or build a site that allows people to log actual results for their area. Thinking about it, with all the physical weather stations, it ought to be possible to automate even that part (logging actual measured weather, vs 5 day forecast) Maybe someone already has... either way, all seems rather strange given that I assume all the data comes from the met office originally. Or maybe yahoo get it from weather.com or some such... Anyway ... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
Mark Simpkins wrote: How about a 'Rate this weather' option? Just grade how accurate you thought the weather forcast was for your area. Isithotornot.com? Oh really, I should go on tour :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP
I'm at work so I can't check at the moment, but ISTR that my telly licence has a unique reference number with it. This is going back a few years (say about 3-4). I used to buy my license from the old Post Office, and those didn't have a unique number on them. The ones you get sent by TV Licensing do. Hmm, I didn't know that. I wonder how you get them to move the licence to a new property when you move house if you don't have a licence number? The online form[1] has the licence number as a required field. I remember filling in that form back in October 2001 and thinking exactly the same! IIRC, I just put down that I had no license number. But there wasn't a knock on my door, and when it came up for renewal, the letter came from the right address. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP
Hello - my name is Gary O'Dea I'm the Copyright Co-ordinator at the University of Wolverhampton. Could I ask the lists help with a question? If our staff/ students were to use Backstage BBC could there use of content be re-published (to terms of use conditions)on a password accessed VLE at our University or would it have to be on our general public accessed web site for example. Myself I think it would have to be on general access - can someone confirm please? Regards Gary -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Bowden Sent: 07 November 2005 14:53 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] iMP I'm at work so I can't check at the moment, but ISTR that my telly licence has a unique reference number with it. This is going back a few years (say about 3-4). I used to buy my license from the old Post Office, and those didn't have a unique number on them. The ones you get sent by TV Licensing do. Hmm, I didn't know that. I wonder how you get them to move the licence to a new property when you move house if you don't have a licence number? The online form[1] has the licence number as a required field. I remember filling in that form back in October 2001 and thinking exactly the same! IIRC, I just put down that I had no license number. But there wasn't a knock on my door, and when it came up for renewal, the letter came from the right address. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP
Working on the iTunes Music Store model... £1.89 per episode. If episodes are weekly, all year (although I know few are), you could be paying £100 just to download a year's worth of 1 series. Suddenly £126.50 for a licence fee doesn't look too bad...! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Sent: 07 November 2005 15:40 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iMP Releasing iMP to the world would almost end piracy of the BBC's content. Releasing it to the UK would still keep all the BBC's content available over the net through the standard ways. What better way to maintain control and quality than to irradicate the need for piracy of BBC content..? I actually wouldn't object to paying for this as a seperate service and I wouldnt be suprised if this is not the way forward for non-uk citizens. Seems fair enough, we pay our £££ per year and if Joel from America wants it, he can but it'll cost him a percentage of the standard lic. fee. Andrew Bowden wrote: I'm at work so I can't check at the moment, but ISTR that my telly licence has a unique reference number with it. This is going back a few years (say about 3-4). I used to buy my license from the old Post Office, and those didn't have a unique number on them. The ones you get sent by TV Licensing do. Hmm, I didn't know that. I wonder how you get them to move the licence to a new property when you move house if you don't have a licence number? The online form[1] has the licence number as a required field. I remember filling in that form back in October 2001 and thinking exactly the same! IIRC, I just put down that I had no license number. But there wasn't a knock on my door, and when it came up for renewal, the letter came from the right address. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [backstage] iMP
At the same time, if I am sitting in my living room in London with my laptop, paying a TV license - then I can access it. Yet if I take my same laptop to my house in Spain then I can't access it. surely that is where I would want it most. I would pay - no problem. I'm really happy to see it happening.. slowly. Also, why are Mac users still second for the iMP - I use my Mac for far more things than the average PC user, and it always works. With Digidesign plugins they have a demo mode where the length of the demo determines how long it can be used for on any computer. why can't the archives be sent out with a mode incorporated where they actually stop working on a machine after a certain length of time, then the BBC could apply any rule they wished to the viewing time available for a file... it does help with the piracy as well. On 7 Nov 2005, at 15:40, James wrote: Releasing iMP to the world would almost end piracy of the BBC's content. Releasing it to the UK would still keep all the BBC's content available over the net through the standard ways. What better way to maintain control and quality than to irradicate the need for piracy of BBC content..? I actually wouldn't object to paying for this as a seperate service and I wouldnt be suprised if this is not the way forward for non-uk citizens. Seems fair enough, we pay our £££ per year and if Joel from America wants it, he can but it'll cost him a percentage of the standard lic. fee. Andrew Bowden wrote: I'm at work so I can't check at the moment, but ISTR that my telly licence has a unique reference number with it. This is going back a few years (say about 3-4). I used to buy my license from the old Post Office, and those didn't have a unique number on them. The ones you get sent by TV Licensing do. Hmm, I didn't know that. I wonder how you get them to move the licence to a new property when you move house if you don't have a licence number? The online form[1] has the licence number as a required field. I remember filling in that form back in October 2001 and thinking exactly the same! IIRC, I just put down that I had no license number. But there wasn't a knock on my door, and when it came up for renewal, the letter came from the right address. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/ 2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http:// www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [backstage] iMP
Richard Edwards wrote: Also, why are Mac users still second for the iMP - I use my Mac for far more things than the average PC user, and it always works. It makes sense to target the main user base first, obviously. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP
Hi as an ex UK resident now living in Australia, I would be delighted to get access to BBC TV, as there is nothing other thank shonk available locally (excepting the odd UK production that gets broadcast here and the ABC attempts to make programs on a budget of at least $2 per whole program). Having a number of arrows in my back from being a DRM pioneer, the BBC will have a major challenge both protecting and releasing the content, though Pay TV shows that people will pay for content (most of which goes into the shonk category), and making it available to non UK residents will certainly be an excellent way to bring those DVD revenues forward I think iMP is a great idea and needs to see the light of day, the current model of free to air TV needs to adapt to the networked world and in retrospect paying directly for an organization to create and broadcast quality TV seems quite an enlightened idea really Yours in hope Peter . James wrote: Releasing iMP to the world would almost end piracy of the BBC's content. Releasing it to the UK would still keep all the BBC's content available over the net through the standard ways. What better way to maintain control and quality than to irradicate the need for piracy of BBC content..? I actually wouldn't object to paying for this as a seperate service and I wouldnt be suprised if this is not the way forward for non-uk citizens. Seems fair enough, we pay our £££ per year and if Joel from America wants it, he can but it'll cost him a percentage of the standard lic. fee. Andrew Bowden wrote: I'm at work so I can't check at the moment, but ISTR that my telly licence has a unique reference number with it. This is going back a few years (say about 3-4). I used to buy my license from the old Post Office, and those didn't have a unique number on them. The ones you get sent by TV Licensing do. Hmm, I didn't know that. I wonder how you get them to move the licence to a new property when you move house if you don't have a licence number? The online form[1] has the licence number as a required field. I remember filling in that form back in October 2001 and thinking exactly the same! IIRC, I just put down that I had no license number. But there wasn't a knock on my door, and when it came up for renewal, the letter came from the right address. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
At 12:01 07/11/2005, you wrote: Since it's a testing beta more aimed at testing the technology and the idea I'm sure the accessibility elements will come in when it's out. The boards suggest a limited budget to examine this idea and that's why we havent seen a linux or mac client and I suspect the same can be applied to a complete design and other related issues. I missed getting on the Beta due to being out of the country. But my impression was it uses a skinned windows media player. I could be wrong. If I'm not though, any inherent limitations of WMP (broken, mostly on Mac, and not available for unixes) would be present. Thoughts ? Cheers - Neil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
Here's a few screenies: http://www.webcoding.co.uk/imp/ Note that you can actually play the DRM'd files in Media Player itself, it doesnt have to go through the iMP player design. All the video's can be fast forwarded etc without issue. Jim. Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media] wrote: At 12:01 07/11/2005, you wrote: Since it's a testing beta more aimed at testing the technology and the idea I'm sure the accessibility elements will come in when it's out. The boards suggest a limited budget to examine this idea and that's why we havent seen a linux or mac client and I suspect the same can be applied to a complete design and other related issues. I missed getting on the Beta due to being out of the country. But my impression was it uses a skinned windows media player. I could be wrong. If I'm not though, any inherent limitations of WMP (broken, mostly on Mac, and not available for unixes) would be present. Thoughts ? Cheers - Neil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP
I also liked it. Is there any plans to support this on unix? If there is would it be possible to get a guestimation of when it will be available? Thanks for your time, Pete On Fri, 2005-11-04 at 21:56 +, James wrote: No Beef! Liked it very much, interesting URI - had a peek with etherpeek! Wanted to know if there is any thought given to API's and such which will allow for any interfacing should this go 'gold'. The intergrated media player is cool but essentially unusable if you plan on working and watching stuff at the same time because of the graphical border edges. Overall, very impressed and the quality of the shows is v. good, almost as good as the hdtv rips so hats off to ya! This is without doubt a giant leap and a major turning point in delivering television over the net! Jim. Kim Plowright wrote: Yes, but zen ve vould haff to kill you... :-) Don't see why not - what's your beef? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Sent: 04 November 2005 10:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] iMP Are we allowed to talk about iMP here ? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP
Ok, ignore me... I found the following information on the iMP page 14. When will I get iMP on Mac Linux? We are currently conducting a content trial of iMP with 5,000 users in order to assess audience interest. As this is a trial it has only been possible to develop a version for Windows using Windows Media 9 Digital Rights Management, given time and budget constraints. Should the service be approved, we aim to make it accessible for different platforms, like Macintosh and Linux. Our suppliers are currently working towards this. Apologies, Pete On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 23:26 +, Peter Baines wrote: I also liked it. Is there any plans to support this on unix? If there is would it be possible to get a guestimation of when it will be available? Thanks for your time, Pete On Fri, 2005-11-04 at 21:56 +, James wrote: No Beef! Liked it very much, interesting URI - had a peek with etherpeek! Wanted to know if there is any thought given to API's and such which will allow for any interfacing should this go 'gold'. The intergrated media player is cool but essentially unusable if you plan on working and watching stuff at the same time because of the graphical border edges. Overall, very impressed and the quality of the shows is v. good, almost as good as the hdtv rips so hats off to ya! This is without doubt a giant leap and a major turning point in delivering television over the net! Jim. Kim Plowright wrote: Yes, but zen ve vould haff to kill you... :-) Don't see why not - what's your beef? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Sent: 04 November 2005 10:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] iMP Are we allowed to talk about iMP here ? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad? Does anyone have links to positive reports on the accessibility of iMP? According to: http://cms.elfden.co.uk/2005/10/18/bbc-imp-trial-part-1/ Accessibility wise it stinks. No keyboard access what so ever. Who is responsible for accessibility at iMP and which groups representing people with disabilities were invited to comment? Could this be an integral part of the BBC's regular best practice? cheers! Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and the Internet 29 Crimsworth Road SW8 4RJ 020 7978 1764 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] iMP
Are we allowed to talk about iMP here ? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP
Are we allowed to talk about iMP here ? Sure. We can also pass on any specific queries to the iMP team if you're on the trial. There's also quite a lengthy thread on one of our message boards with contributions from the iMP trial team. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbpointsofview/F1951572?thread=1160867 Jem - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP
Kim, I'd just like to correct your suggestion that we only execute internal candidates, in fact we're open to anybody and that is why details are circulated on the BBC Backstage list. There was a slight mix-up on the day they appeared, as the BBC Snuff team inadvertently forgot to flag them as externally visible. Some list members kindly made me aware of this, and the problem was fixed on the same day. Unfortunately the closing date for applications has now passed, so the posts are no longer on the BBC Snuff site. However, new opportunities are often posted in the same area, so keep an eye on it if you are interested. Furthermore, I must address your implication of unfairness in our selection strategy, specifically the favouring of 'friends' over other candidates. This is absolutely not the case, we follow a rigorous fair selection process when firing all of our staff, and this was no exception. I hope this has cleared up any misunderstanding that may have occurred, and I apologise if I was not clear in any of my previous emails about this matter. All the best, ~: ps if you know what this means, please let me know, I'm only the designer. Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and the Internet 29 Crimsworth Road SW8 4RJ 020 7978 1764 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP
Jonathan Chetwynd wrote: I hope this has cleared up any misunderstanding that may have occurred, and I apologise if I was not clear in any of my previous emails about this matter. Someone get me whatever he's on. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP
we only execute internal candidates Ok, this makes me slightly afraid to apply for anything ever again. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP
Back on topic... Heads up for backstage list. The iMP message board is now live at http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbimp/ It launches formally on Monday. Priya Prakash from the project is one of the board's hosts. Ta Jem -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victoria Conlan Sent: 04 November 2005 16:38 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] iMP we only execute internal candidates Ok, this makes me slightly afraid to apply for anything ever again. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP
No Beef! Liked it very much, interesting URI - had a peek with etherpeek! Wanted to know if there is any thought given to API's and such which will allow for any interfacing should this go 'gold'. The intergrated media player is cool but essentially unusable if you plan on working and watching stuff at the same time because of the graphical border edges. Overall, very impressed and the quality of the shows is v. good, almost as good as the hdtv rips so hats off to ya! This is without doubt a giant leap and a major turning point in delivering television over the net! Jim. Kim Plowright wrote: Yes, but zen ve vould haff to kill you... :-) Don't see why not - what's your beef? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Sent: 04 November 2005 10:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] iMP Are we allowed to talk about iMP here ? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] iMP released
I see from Slashdot[1] that the BBC have started their Internet Media Player[2] trial. Any backstagers in the lucky public group? I see that it has a Windows only DRM so no point in us Linux users applying for the trial. Back to tvtime for us! Jim'll [1] http://slashdot.org/articles/05/10/05/0139223.shtml?tid=129tid=95 [2] http://www.bbc.co.uk/imp/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iMP released
I applied ages ago, seems I haven't been selected :( The odds were good too - 30,000 applicants - 5,000 places - 1:6. - David (Very disappointed :() On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:30:39 +0100 (BST), J.P.Knight wrote I see from Slashdot[1] that the BBC have started their Internet Media Player[2] trial. Any backstagers in the lucky public group? I see that it has a Windows only DRM so no point in us Linux users applying for the trial. Back to tvtime for us! Jim'll [1] http://slashdot.org/articles/05/10/05/0139223.shtml?tid=129tid=95 [2] http://www.bbc.co.uk/imp/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ Scanned by Emailfiltering.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
