Re: BD Down under
Dear Merla, If you want to potentise large quantities of spray material you could try fitting as large a drum as you can mount and handle on to a two person children's swing, or conversely you could get Herb to make you a motorised see-saw, with substance on both ends. The problem with potentising large quantities by hand is: The amount of water used, and The labor used. Mechanize the process and you are part of the way down the track, however from my experience even the hand prepared preps and peppers are not anywhere near the potency of radionic substance i.e.: stirred preps on our place might start off at an energy reading of 640, stir them and you might get to somewhere about 1000, or an increase in energy of 50%. potentise the same preps (or substance) to say 3x and the energy has increased to around 10,000. Stirred preps maybe fine on poor soils, but once you start to get high vitality in your soils the BD 500 in some cases can knock the vitality down. the same with all the other preps, it is only by Radionic Analysis that you can tell what is going to happen, before you do it. Or if your soil really needs what you want to put out. A few months ago I wrote of some basalt soils on our farm that had plenty of mineralisation, extremely high paramagnetism, 5% organic matter and a vitality reading of 10% which is about as low as it can get and Brix of 8. Since then I have used Radionic broadcast plus radionic testing of what substances would give the best results, this has increased Brix to 22 and vitality to about 90%. No putting preps out by hand, all soil inputs are broadcast via Polaroid photographs. Part of the secret has been that we have been able to change the soil polarity from positive to negative. There is not any discussion on soil polarity on the list , however it is probably the one single factor that has the most influence on soil fertility. Good luck, James Dear Merla, Just finished a workshop in Traverse City, Michigan. We covered these issues from the easy side. I'd love to show you. But I only got 2 out of 100 that were interested in my presentation at Moscow, November 7, 8 at your Idaho Organic meet. Don't know if I can get there on so slim a shoelace. But, you are right that homeopathy and biodynamics the stir and spray way is much too hard. I'd love to show you radionics. Best, Hugh James, it took us hours and hours to spray our tansy and knapweed D-8 solution six times (two different weeks when the moon was in a fire sign). We came home at midnight twice. I think radionics is the answer for large acreages. I'm still trying to understand how to potentize 4 gallons of D-7 pepper. What do you use to put it in to hang it from a tree and whack the *#!!! out of it? I'm still wondering if I ground the ash correctly and potentized each succession correctly. Whenever I start doing radionics, that's going to be a whole new level of learning what to do on a material level and on a spiritual level. Best, Merla James Hedley wrote: Greetings from the Land of the Wizards of Oz, :-) Earlier this month 6 members of Central West Biodynamic Group had a social prep spraying day at one of our members who had been drastically effected by the drought. We had 2 stirring machines (one 60 gallon and a 90 gallon) and 2 sets of flow forms running into a 400 litter tank, along with the brand new fire tanker which bought the water for the spraying out. As usual there was some problem with at least one pump, nothing much that a few willing hands couldn't fix. The first load of spray headed out at about 3'oclock and continued on until after dark. Back up again before daylight to get the 501 out. In all we got preps out over 200 acres that were sown that weekend as the gods must have heard that the preps were going out and gave us an inch of rain. The property is 1500 acres with around 800 acres under cultivation, so it would have taken all of us at least 4 days to put out the preps only on the cultivation area.The whole exercise gave all of us a n insight into the difficulties of broad acre application of BD preps. Itut the preps out in between stirring and spraying The biggest problem is that the time when the preps go out usually coincides with the time for sowing. In many instances the sowing gets done and the preps wait for a less busy time(if there is one). It is easy to see that there is a future for radionics in broad acre cropping. Our member manages 1500 acres by himself, quite a feat. It is not uncommon in Australian cropping for one man to manage very large areas. Just try sowing down 800 acres in a few days because there is enough rainfall to at least get a germination, even although there is minimal subsoil moisture. One must give full praise to the broad acre farmers who have not even come out of drought yet still expend large amounts of money to put another crop in, full of hope and not much else there for them. For many farmers
Re: BD Down under
From: James Hedley Dear Merla, If you want to potentise large quantities of spray material you could -- or conversely you could get Herb to make you a motorised see-saw, with substance on both ends. BRILLIANT! ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: BD Down under
Hi James, Thanks for your comment re homoeopathy and Koliskos I think that it is vitally important. Re changing polarity, Does this have a connection with the balance of anions and cations or pH where this does not otherwise co-relate? Next month I will be in Cairns and hope to meet good number of you wizards of Oz. Unfortunately I won't beable to mke a wider tour on this occasion. One day I hope to visit a few of you folk on your home patches and see what you're all doing. In the meantime I'm looking forward to Hugh's visit. - Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biodynamic Food and Farming Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:26 PM Subject: Re: BD Down under ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: BD Research was Can error be turned to advantage?
Hi Liz, The peppering experiment you are mentioning is very similar to what a group of us in N.Z. would like to follow through on, Your brush tailed possum is rather too fond of our bush and needs to be controlled. The cages need to be on the ground and the ground is much more receptive to the pepper material if it is moist enough to support seed germination. If you are working with ash stired into sand or a homoeopathic dilution the energy of the pepper needs to be taken into the soil to radiate back out again. I have found rabbits here to consistently move six weeks after application of the preparation, and it takes either two or three applications over a number of years to get the message across to them to stay away long term. At Gary and Jan Blake's place a patch that the rabbits loved and was easily viewed from the dineing table was peppered and a daily watch was maintained from the table at breakfast time. Behavioural changes were noted in any that strayed into the treated zone. They felt uneasy and on edge and didn't stay for long. Go for it it would be valuable research. Best wishes, Peter. Secondly the peppering, from the little I know the reproductive system should be affected. Now I know that lab. research is not the real thing, but could this not be tested in a controlled environment experiment. If I was to house pairs of rabbits separately, and treat some with a pepper. This sort of experiment could show physical changes, behaviour changes or drop of reproductive rate numbers? Is it worth observing to that degree and further regarding planet influences? It's an area I'd like to work in and wonder if this is where I could put scientific research of BD into action? Or would I be better off pursuing the preps??? I have the honour of having a wise and well published scientist at the uni, who is willing to guide me in whatever I pursue. He says with all that he's done the greatest of these is teaching Ecological Agriculture. Feel as though this is a chance for some sort of research and my heart/head/hands are with BD. Have to admit I'm a bit ahead of myself, but my marks are being maintained for an honours research year, so would like to consider some options. All feedback welcome, thanks. ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: BD Research was Can error be turned to advantage?
Thanks Peter, I appreciate your experience and words of support. I've read a few articles on the peppering work on brush tailed possums in NZ, and it always intrigues me. Will be in touch for any words of wisdom you may be willing to pass on. Thanks again LL Liz on 18/6/03 8:57 PM, Peter Michael Bacchus at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Liz, The peppering experiment you are mentioning is very similar to what a group of us in N.Z. would like to follow through on, Your brush tailed possum is rather too fond of our bush and needs to be controlled. The cages need to be on the ground and the ground is much more receptive to the pepper material if it is moist enough to support seed germination. If you are working with ash stired into sand or a homoeopathic dilution the energy of the pepper needs to be taken into the soil to radiate back out again. I have found rabbits here to consistently move six weeks after application of the preparation, and it takes either two or three applications over a number of years to get the message across to them to stay away long term. At Gary and Jan Blake's place a patch that the rabbits loved and was easily viewed from the dineing table was peppered and a daily watch was maintained from the table at breakfast time. Behavioural changes were noted in any that strayed into the treated zone. They felt uneasy and on edge and didn't stay for long. Go for it it would be valuable research. Best wishes, Peter. Secondly the peppering, from the little I know the reproductive system should be affected. Now I know that lab. research is not the real thing, but could this not be tested in a controlled environment experiment. If I was to house pairs of rabbits separately, and treat some with a pepper. This sort of experiment could show physical changes, behaviour changes or drop of reproductive rate numbers? Is it worth observing to that degree and further regarding planet influences? It's an area I'd like to work in and wonder if this is where I could put scientific research of BD into action? Or would I be better off pursuing the preps??? I have the honour of having a wise and well published scientist at the uni, who is willing to guide me in whatever I pursue. He says with all that he's done the greatest of these is teaching Ecological Agriculture. Feel as though this is a chance for some sort of research and my heart/head/hands are with BD. Have to admit I'm a bit ahead of myself, but my marks are being maintained for an honours research year, so would like to consider some options. All feedback welcome, thanks. ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
BD Down under
Greetings from the Land of the Wizards of Oz, :-) Earlier this month 6 members of Central West Biodynamic Group had a social prep spraying day at one of our members who had been drastically effected by the drought. We had 2 stirring machines (one 60 gallon and a 90 gallon) and 2 sets of flow forms running into a 400 litter tank, along with the brand new fire tanker which bought the water for the spraying out. As usual there was some problem with at least one pump, nothing much that a few willing hands couldn't fix. The first load of spray headed out at about 3'oclock and continued on until after dark. Back up again before daylight to get the 501 out. In all we got preps out over 200 acres that were sown that weekend as the gods must have heard that the preps were going out and gave us an inch of rain. The property is 1500 acres with around 800 acres under cultivation, so it would have taken all of us at least 4 days to put out the preps only on the cultivation area.The whole exercise gave all of us a n insight into the difficulties of broad acre application of BD preps. Itut the preps out in between stirring and spraying The biggest problem is that the time when the preps go out usually coincides with the time for sowing. In many instances the sowing gets done and the preps wait for a less busy time(if there is one). It is easy to see that there is a future for radionics in broad acre cropping. Our member manages 1500 acres by himself, quite a feat. It is not uncommon in Australian cropping for one man to manage very large areas. Just try sowing down 800 acres in a few days because there is enough rainfall to at least get a germination, even although there is minimal subsoil moisture. One must give full praise to the broad acre farmers who have not even come out of drought yet still expend large amounts of money to put another crop in, full of hope and not much else there for them. For many farmers it will be very tough, if they can hang on, if there is no crop this year. Something like 95% of NSW is still drought affected, although fortunately our property has had 22 inches of rain since March. We had really good mileage from Hugh Lovel's Workshop at Albury, however I have found that Radionic broadcast of sea water and the use of Radionic color therapy on the atmosphere has enabled the rain to move in a further 30 km from the east. More on the results of sea water broadcast in another post. Regards James Hedley ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: BD Down under
James, it took us hours and hours to spray our tansy and knapweed D-8 solution six times (two different weeks when the moon was in a fire sign). We came home at midnight twice. I think radionics is the answer for large acreages. I'm still trying to understand how to potentize 4 gallons of D-7 pepper. What do you use to put it in to hang it from a tree and whack the *#!!! out of it? I'm still wondering if I ground the ash correctly and potentized each succession correctly. Whenever I start doing radionics, that's going to be a whole new level of learning what to do on a material level and on a spiritual level. Best, Merla James Hedley wrote: Greetings from the Land of the Wizards of Oz, :-) Earlier this month 6 members of Central West Biodynamic Group had a social prep spraying day at one of our members who had been drastically effected by the drought. We had 2 stirring machines (one 60 gallon and a 90 gallon) and 2 sets of flow forms running into a 400 litter tank, along with the brand new fire tanker which bought the water for the spraying out. As usual there was some problem with at least one pump, nothing much that a few willing hands couldn't fix. The first load of spray headed out at about 3'oclock and continued on until after dark. Back up again before daylight to get the 501 out. In all we got preps out over 200 acres that were sown that weekend as the gods must have heard that the preps were going out and gave us an inch of rain. The property is 1500 acres with around 800 acres under cultivation, so it would have taken all of us at least 4 days to put out the preps only on the cultivation area.The whole exercise gave all of us a n insight into the difficulties of broad acre application of BD preps. Itut the preps out in between stirring and spraying The biggest problem is that the time when the preps go out usually coincides with the time for sowing. In many instances the sowing gets done and the preps wait for a less busy time(if there is one). It is easy to see that there is a future for radionics in broad acre cropping. Our member manages 1500 acres by himself, quite a feat. It is not uncommon in Australian cropping for one man to manage very large areas. Just try sowing down 800 acres in a few days because there is enough rainfall to at least get a germination, even although there is minimal subsoil moisture. One must give full praise to the broad acre farmers who have not even come out of drought yet still expend large amounts of money to put another crop in, full of hope and not much else there for them. For many farmers it will be very tough, if they can hang on, if there is no crop this year. Something like 95% of NSW is still drought affected, although fortunately our property has had 22 inches of rain since March. We had really good mileage from Hugh Lovel's Workshop at Albury, however I have found that Radionic broadcast of sea water and the use of Radionic color therapy on the atmosphere has enabled the rain to move in a further 30 km from the east. More on the results of sea water broadcast in another post. Regards James Hedley ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: BD Research was Can error be turned to advantage?
Hi Roger, James, Lloyd et al You wizards always get me thinking. Firstly the energy of the Manaro plains, do you think the energy is caused from what Lloyd said about overgrazing? I've driven through that country several times and it is very depleted, a draining energy and often barren, yet that is not how it was. I had the pleasure of driving through there with a ranger, whose family had been in the area for 5 generations. How he described the changes were mostly due to grazing. What's the compaction like anyone know? Secondly the peppering, from the little I know the reproductive system should be affected. Now I know that lab. research is not the real thing, but could this not be tested in a controlled environment experiment. If I was to house pairs of rabbits separately, and treat some with a pepper. This sort of experiment could show physical changes, behaviour changes or drop of reproductive rate numbers? Is it worth observing to that degree and further regarding planet influences? It's an area I'd like to work in and wonder if this is where I could put scientific research of BD into action? Or would I be better off pursuing the preps??? I have the honour of having a wise and well published scientist at the uni, who is willing to guide me in whatever I pursue. He says with all that he's done the greatest of these is teaching Ecological Agriculture. Feel as though this is a chance for some sort of research and my heart/head/hands are with BD. Have to admit I'm a bit ahead of myself, but my marks are being maintained for an honours research year, so would like to consider some options. All feedback welcome, thanks. Markess any words of wisdom? LL Liz on 17/6/03 6:42 PM, James Hedley at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Lloyd, I agree that there is an energy factor operating at Dalgetty. This energy factor is not just unique to Dalgetty, it is common to all poor country. Unfortunately Roger and I cant let the cat out of the bag yet. One of two things can happen, the work is worthy of a Nobel Prize, or we don't really know enough about what we are doing yet. I know that the concepts which we are working with at Dalgetty have worked elsewhere on small scale trials. However there is a long way to go yet. Regards James Hedley Roger wrote Notwithstanding Lloyd's positive remarks about the Dalgety area, the extended results of lack of rain, overgrazing and invasive weed are very evident in reducing soil quality and growth patterns - and this land is marginal to begin with. It was more a general comment on the area, I'd agree that Dalgety is pretty marginal, its fairly low rainfall and the soils are ordinary. The Monaro used to be lightly stocked but hard times and bad advice from government experts in the 70's led to farmers trying to run numbers that the country was not capable of supporting long term. I remember a farmer from that area (Dalgety side of town) going through court for failure to control rabbits in 1969 or 70, politely told the beak that with a wife and kids to support he was catching 200 pair a night and had no intention of eliminating his only useful source of income until wool prices improved. I dont know what it was but in a short time up there I met a lot of good people - they seemed to have a depth of character - maybe tough times do that ? But I think there is an energy factor in that whole area that you dont see in other places. Cheers Lloyd Charles ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
For Arjen: BD NOW! ARCHIVES was Re: Introduction
Arjen - You can currently access a large portion of the BD Now! archives without a password at http://www.mail-archive.com/bdnow%40envirolink.org/http://www.mail-archive.com/bdnow%40envirolink.org/ Your password for the archives should have been given to you in the 'letter' you received when you subscribed to BD Now! If you do not have your passoword, you can get it again by making a query at the envirolink control page. In fact, you must have had an opportunity to get your password mailed to you when you were refused entry to the archives, no? Thanks for the informative posts! -Allan ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy
Thanks P AS one would almost expect of fanatical sceptics I will not waste my time G - Original Message - From: BP Bell To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 3:12 PM Subject: Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy G'day:I know of a dowsing friend in India who submitted detailed documents to "R", put all the correspondence on line, over the months, and funny thing, once it was clear to R's group that it was serious, the fellow in India stopped receiving communication. CheersPenelopeLloyd Charles wrote: - Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy Got the details? I sure it would made a few press inches, and make our development easier, if we could collect this. GA Glen This is probably Randi - the guy is a first class a-- - you do not wanna go there. No matter what you managed to prove with this guy you will never get his money. Cheers Lloyd Charles .
Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy
Well done Glen. A couple of questions, who are HortResearch? Are they independent of you? Is BDMAX your brand? The results and the presentation of them are impressive. David C - Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 3 March 2003 11:48 AM Subject: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy IF there was ever any doubt homeopathic BD preps work we now have scientific proof for all to see Our frost protection spray ThermoMax has passed the test with flying colours check out the HortReseach graph at www.bdmax.co.nz 50% more fruit set @ a -2C frost 33% @ -4C not bad for fairy dust GA
Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy
- Original Message - From: D S Chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:18 AM Subject: Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy Well done Glen. Thanks A couple of questions, who are HortResearch? Yes hortResearch are an independant -semi government - top of the heap NZ research group Are they independent of you? Yes they are independant research contractors to all of horticulture Is BDMAX your brand? Yes, we have rebranded as Garuda has negative connotation on this side of the planet due to GAruda Airlines having and image of cheap and nasty. BdMax also images our taking BD practises to the limit and seeing what they can do. No holds barred and NO FEAR. The beauty of the ThermoMax trials are they were on chemical apples in bags and worked. The results and the presentation of them are impressive. Thanks David. We hope to have more available in the future as we embark on wide ranging efficay trials with hortresarch. 501, ripening and bird controls on grapes all begin their trials today. Results in a few months. These trials will be done on chemical orchards so if the results are positive, as others we have done on chemical grapes have been, then BD brakes out of its confines of only be applied to the .1% OF HORTICULTURE AND can easily effect mainstream markets. G David C - Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 3 March 2003 11:48 AM Subject: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy IF there was ever any doubt homeopathic BD preps work we now have scientific proof for all to see Our frost protection spray ThermoMax has passed the test with flying colours check out the HortReseach graph at www.bdmax.co.nz 50% more fruit set @ a -2C frost 33% @ -4C not bad for fairy dust GA
Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy
Randi was involved in a BBC Horizon programme 'disproving' homeopathy; see www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathy.shtml if you have all the replicable data, scientifically produced, it should relatively straightforward ? Sure you will have to jump thru some hoops, but it is a lot of money ! It does seem a little strange that no one has taken up the challenge, like we are not 100% certain that it DOES work. Or maybe Randi and his cronies are not impartial, I dont know. All I do know is that if people say 'no', it is because they are not sure of a fair shot, and not because they are scared of a negative result. thus endeth todays sermon ! Gideon. - Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 12:40 AM Subject: Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy tHANKS FOR THE ADVICE The website talks about paranormal and I did not see any mention of homeopathics on the quick scan I did of the site, so I emailed for clarification.
Searching BD Archives
Can anyone explain to me how to search the BD arcives? Doug _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Searching BD Archives
Doug, Try here... http://www.mail-archive.com/bdnow%40envirolink.org/ Perry - Original Message - From: Doug Jay Stewart To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 3:43 PM Subject: Searching BD Archives Can anyone explain to me how to search the BD arcives?Doug_Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy
G'day: I know of a dowsing friend in India who submitted detailed documents to "R", put all the correspondence on line, over the months, and funny thing, once it was clear to R's group that it was serious, the fellow in India stopped receiving communication. Cheers Penelope Lloyd Charles wrote: - Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy Got the details? I sure it would made a few press inches, and make our development easier, if we could collect this. GA Glen This is probably Randi - the guy is a first class a-- - you do not wanna go there. No matter what you managed to prove with this guy you will never get his money. Cheers Lloyd Charles .
Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy
Got the details? I sure it would made a few press inches, and make our development easier, if we could collect this. GA - Original Message - From: gideon cowen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 8:38 PM Subject: Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy some Yankee magician (?) was offering $1 million to anyone who could prove homeopathy under 'scientific' tests. You could be in the money there Glen ! Gideon, boy do I watch too much TV ! - Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 1:48 AM Subject: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy IF there was ever any doubt homeopathic BD preps work we now have scientific proof for all to see Our frost protection spray ThermoMax has passed the test with flying colours check out the HortReseach graph at www.bdmax.co.nz 50% more fruit set @ a -2C frost 33% @ -4C not bad for fairy dust GA
Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy
Alrighty Glen here you go, I dont want any commision, I just want to see this schmuck eat his words ! See www.randi.org , look under the $1 million Paranormal Challenge. Good luck, and keep us posted... Gideon. - Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 8:10 PM Subject: Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy Got the details? I sure it would made a few press inches, and make our development easier, if we could collect this. GA - Original Message - From: gideon cowen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 8:38 PM Subject: Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy some Yankee magician (?) was offering $1 million to anyone who could prove homeopathy under 'scientific' tests. You could be in the money there Glen ! Gideon, boy do I watch too much TV !
Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy
- Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy Got the details? I sure it would made a few press inches, and make our development easier, if we could collect this. GA Glen This is probably Randi - the guy is a first class a-- - you do not wanna go there. No matter what you managed to prove with this guy you will never get his money. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy
tHANKS FOR THE ADVICE The website talks about paranormal and I did not see any mention of homeopathics on the quick scan I did of the site, so I emailed for clarification. G - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 12:38 PM Subject: Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy - Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Scientific proof of Homeopathic BD prep efficacy Got the details? I sure it would made a few press inches, and make our development easier, if we could collect this. GA Glen This is probably Randi - the guy is a first class a-- - you do not wanna go there. No matter what you managed to prove with this guy you will never get his money. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: BD and steam
Christine , thank you for the info I will follow up and let you know the outcome, regards Ross - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: Re: BD and steam Hi Ross, There is another company in Australia (Adelaide) marketing a steam weeder especially for under vines called 'Vaporjet'. They also have photos of a modified version for [vegetables?] asparagus that a grower made himself. The company's name is 'travohtec', PO Box 2162, Port Adelaide Business Centre, SA 5015; ph 08-8347 7499; fax 08-8347 7599; email [EMAIL PROTECTED]; contact person: Chris Travers 0407 976 033. Christiane
Re: BD and steam
Hi Ross, There is another company in Australia (Adelaide) marketing a steam weeder especially for under vines called 'Vaporjet'. They also have photos of a modified version for [vegetables?] asparagus that a grower made himself. The company's name is 'travohtec', PO Box 2162, Port Adelaide Business Centre, SA 5015; ph 08-8347 7499; fax 08-8347 7599; email [EMAIL PROTECTED]; contact person: Chris Travers 0407 976 033. Christiane
Re: BD
David Robinson said: That would be superstition if there were not experimental evidence that it works. Dave - I'm always looking for experimental confirmations to cite. Would you mind sharing your references? Thanks _Allan
Re: BD and steam
I made a flame weeder about8 years ago,runs on propane gas . 40kg of gas covers about 1 acre. Brillent on annual seedling weeds not so good with grasses and perennial weeds. Best results where achieved on the afternoon of a leaf dayduring the week of full moon.I use mind 3 or 4 timesfor stale seed bed preparation before planting. Cheers Tony Robinson Land Down Under
BD
At 12:04 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, roger wrote: When I first talked about BD with a good friend of mine, he looked at me with the now-familiar 'steer caught in the headlights' look, laughed and said You can't be serious, falling for something like that. Cow shit buried in a cow horn after dancing backwards round a campfire in the light of the silvery moon with a feather up your backside! It's funny how folks react to perceived superstitious nonsense. Truly, BD is a fantastic claim. However, the alternative conceptual model behind Steiner contains a consistent and logical philosophy if you dig into it. The amazing part is the statement that we can manipulate material stuff is a way that manages subtle energies, which then in turn influence the material world. That would be superstition if there were not experimental evidence that it works. David Robison
Re: BD and steam
to Steve Diver, thanks for your comments on the steam/flame web sites. I would appreciate if you could advise the contact details for Atarus in Australia as I will contact them concerning their applicators. cheers Ross - Original Message - From: Steve Diver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:59 AM Subject: Re: BD and steam Flame, Infra-Red, Steam now you're talking about some hot topics in weed control. See: Flame Weeding for Vegetable Crops http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/flameweedveg.html http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/PDF/flameweedveg.pdf This is the NCAT-ATTRA pub with all the suppliers and resources. EcoFarm in California just held a workshop on this topic in January, where I presented a summary of this topic. We featured the Waipuna hot foam equipment from New Zealand and the Infra-Red EcoWeeders from Switzerland, distributed by Forevergreen in British Columbia. Infra-red weeders are Swiss made. In North America, they are available from two suppliers: Forevergreen and Rittenhouse. A market farm scale flame weeder with a flaming hood, on wheels, can be obtained for $300-400. Flame Weeders in West Virginia http://www.flameweeders.cjb.net/ The Lady Punto, also known as EcoWeeder Lady, is an entry level hand-held Infra-Red weeder for $170. This is what you need, Merla, to try it out. A landscaper said they work great around trees and to edge sidwalks, pavements, and borders. Forevergreen EcoWeeders http://www.chemfree-weedcontrol.com/ The Junior 3 is getting into a farm-scale Infra-Red model for about $870. The Agri Infra-Red models on wheels for market farmers are going into the $1,200 and $1,600 range but don't quote me. Ask them. The Infra-Red weeders are therefore more expensive, but still reasonable to a commercial organic farmer or landscaper. When you're looking at 200', 400', and 600' rows of carrots, parsely, beans, onions, corn... well, you get the picture. Pro-rate your cost out over several years. The Waipuna hot foam is another story. The expense to lease these units are more inline with municipal park departments, institutional landscape maintenance, and large-scale orchards, vineyards, and berry operations rather than small farms and market gardens. Yet, steam or hot foam is *very* appealing to an organic farming situation. If you can imagine a 40-80 acre organic blackberry plantation in Oregon, you can understand how it would match this kind of organic farming. If you are talking about 5 acres of market vegetables, it is not in your budget. Waipuna http://www.waipuna.com/ The Atarus steam weeding equipment, from Australia, is now available in the U.S. through Delta Liquid Energy in Paso Robles, California. http://www.deltaliquidenergy.com/thermweedprodpage.html Have not seen what the Atarus costs, but again I am guessing it is more akin to larger-scale vineyards, rather than small farms. It is the nature of equipment costs. Merla, it occurs to me that you can pass along information about the Waipuna and Atarus steam-based weed control equipment to your weed control board. This is technology that works. Keep in mind, however, it is really expensive and not something they are likely to jump on. Over time, they might warm up to the idea. Regards, Steve Diver
Re: BD and steam
Hi Ross - The Atarus website in Australia is listed in the Flame Weeding for Vegetable Crops publication from ATTRA. http://www.atarus.com.au Yet, the web site quit working some weeks or months ago so I can't say much more than that. John McPhee (Team Leader for Sustainable and Profitable Industries, Vegetable Branch, Devonport, Tasmania) is looking into equipment and technology for organic / sustainable vegetable production so you might get in touch at: John McPhee [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you think of wood chip mulch on trees and vines, combined with steam for the emerging weeds, which ultimately poke through the mulch, you have a very powerful combination. You get the moisture conserving and weed-controlling mulch benefits, you provide the food and shelter benefits for soil biota, you get the fungal foodweb benefits, you get the humic benefits relative to Ramial Chipped Wood -- the Bois Raméal Fragmenté, and you get the no-till benefits. Yet, you avoid the fire hazard of open flame weeders and dried mulch in an arid climate. Regards, Steve Diver Ross McDonald asks: to Steve Diver, thanks for your comments on the steam/flame web sites. I would appreciate if you could advise the contact details for Atarus in Australia as I will contact them concerning their applicators. cheers Ross
Oregon BD
Theres another new posting for more advanced practioners --- Planetary Processes in the Preparations based on Lievegoed from www.oregonbd.org select the Community Page, then the article David Robison
Re: Oregon BD (1)
Dave Robison wrote: Also found it helpful to elaborate on horns versus antlers. As roger said: But when I read (in David's course notes) about the process by which it (bd 500) becomes so, I laughed with chronic disbelief - how, I thought, could anyone be taken in by such patent cosmic clap-trap? I don't know if you've noticed that when something in your computer goes wrong, the error message generated often bears little resemblance to the fault. This is because the number of error messages is limited and if the computer cannot identify one which fits, it just tosses another one up which it 'thinks' might fit. That was the feeling I had when I first read the explanation on the horn manure process, that someone had been asked how the thing worked and that was the best they could come up with in the time allowed. When I first talked about BD with a good friend of mine, he looked at me with the now-familiar 'steer caught in the headlights' look, laughed and said You can't be serious, falling for something like that. Cow shit buried in a cow horn after dancing backwards round a campfire in the light of the silvery moon with a feather up your backside! And I laughed with him and then added Dug up after six months, liquidised and sprayed out and it makes the garden or the farm grow like you wouldn't believe. And all for the cost of a handful of cow shit! He delights in telling that story to everyone he meets. Good publicity, I reckon. The message we should be putting out is that BD500 (and the other preps) is pure energy, and we should frame it in the context and knowledge of the person to whom we're giving it. It took me a long time to get over the negative impact of that explanation; I only did so when I had acquired, through dowsing, a basis of understanding. It's like you can't teach someone anything without giving them a basic level of knowledge they can build on. Hee hee. Me too. So roger, can you explain about Since 'discovering' within myself the ability I have to detect energy flows, that understanding has grown in depth. Perhaps I should have said 'Since discovering within myself the ability everyone has to detect energy flows, that understanding has grown in depth.' We all have this ability, the trick lies in finding the way to it, and the pendulum and divining rods are the tools which fine tune our learning and usage of it. Dowsing is all about locating natural energy, using it (in the case of water, say) and in many cases controlling it. The more one learns about dowsing, the more one realises that energy is not just one thing, but many things, or one thing in many forms. Each of the building blocks of life is a separate form of energy, each vitamin, each trace element, plant, organism, etc. So in describing BD500 and how it becomes so, I could say: Life building blocks in combination = energy1 (soil) + energy2 (water, nutrient, heat) + energy3 (BD500) = womb for energy4 (seeds) + (energy2 + aerial influences) = energy5 (perennial grasses) + energy6 (cow) = energy7 (milk, meat) minus energy8 (protein + nutrient) = energy9 (manure) + energy10 (in-horn purification composting process) = energy11 (BD500) I know I've missed a bit out but I daresay you'll get the general idea, that being that at each stage along the way there is another non-esoteric logical step to be taken and also a chance for control, and that BD500 is pure energy. By using the fine-tuning tools dowsing gives, each of the energies above can be measured. Imagine you have a desk in front of you with a measure on it marked out in even divisions from 1 to 10,000. I'll call these divisions 'pys'. Taking roma tomato plants growing in a suburban veggie plot (mine, with average soil to which compost of questionable value was added, irrigated with tap water because no rain) as an example, we come up with the following: When the 6 seedlings were planted the soil = 2,500 pys, now it's 760. We have had no rain so watering has been by tap water (6.5 pys compared with pure rainwater 1,500). We have had about 100 good sized tomatoes and are still picking at a rate of about 15 every two or three days. Each tomato averages 75 pys, all taste wonderful. The plants = 1,490 pys each. Even without performing a complicated equation it is clear there is a huge imbalance here, that the plant energies far outweigh those in the soil and so the extra must be manufactured in the plants and come from aerial energies as well. Don't ask me how much of each, I don't know. A cow puts out the equivalent weight in manure per day as the grasses it consumes. Usually she will only eat perennial grasses, the annuals she tramples down to form a living mulch. If we were to measure the energies in her diet, including moisture, plus those in her self, we would likely find a similar imbalance and answer. A man in reasonable health and fitness measures about 900 pys in the morning before eating
Re: Oregon BD (2)
Dave Robison wrote: Also what's this about alfalfa being 509? Without doubt it is an important herb, but what do you do? Do you prepare it? I didn't say I personally did anything with it, the suggestion is just a theory that seems logical to me that each of the preps plus one or two missing ones fits in with the plant growth cycle. The things I know about alfalfa (lucerne in Oz) are that it is a legume which contains every known mineral and vitamin, is a valuable forage plant/stock feed/mulch, is an alkaliser and detoxicant, is harvested dried and pelletised and sold as cat and rabbit litter, has considerable medical uses. When newly pelletised it is highly hydroscopic; put 100 milligrams in an empty 500gram coffee tin, add 100 ml of water, and the resultant bulk will fill the can. In this form it can be dug into the top layer of soil and used as a wetting agent but make sure the area is mulched. Dry, its energy is 350 pys; water releases the nutrients and multiplies the energy. Other news -- we had a weekend meeting with Ruth Zinniker to discuss prep making. She is probably the oldest prep maker in terms of being in the chain of transmission from the original lectures. She is a very practical person and basically just told us to keep doing it and stay off the head trips. She wouldn't let us just sit around talking; we had to go out and do some chores with her! Ruth has some reluctance about flow forms, feels they have the lemniscate but not enough vortex. Hence they tend to bring in whatever the natural forces are and fail to gather the farmer's individuality. She likes stirring machines better because they have a strong vortex; she was interested to hear about Steve's egg-shaped machine. Ruth stirs for her farm by hand in a 50-gal barrel, so maybe 25 acres worth each time. So spraying occurs over several days each time. Whilst I agree that the contribution of farmers or farm managers is an important part of BD, I could argue that the energising of the water itself in any sort of device, be it stirring or flowform or recirculating stream, in combination with the energising of BD500 or 501, would be more than enough for the growing of crops and feed. Take pasture grasses, for instance. Generally their energy is around 490 pys. BD500 vortex-mixed in rainwater with manure concentrate for sixty minutes has an off-the-flowform rating of several thousand. The recommendation is it be sprayed out after 3pm (or in the cool of the evening in very hot areas or regions with prolonged sunshine) and within 24 hours of mixing. By that time its energy will have dropped to a residual charge of 100. roger
BD and steam
As a new convert to to the BD practice can anyone advise if steam is used and method of applicationin managing weeds in the vineyard. We are primarily using a modified cutoff plough and then reforming the soil beneath the vines - I dont like doing this as the soil is turned over too often and the feeder roots of the vines must suffer. we are also using mulch under the vines but the noxious weeds are still about. any comments? Ross McDonald
Re: BD and steam
Ross McDonald wrote: As a new convert to to the BD practice can anyone advise if steam is used and method of application in managing weeds in the vineyard. We are primarily using a modified cutoff plough and then reforming the soil beneath the vines - I dont like doing this as the soil is turned over too often and the feeder roots of the vines must suffer. we are also using mulch under the vines but the noxious weeds are still about. any comments? Ross McDonald Leichardt Council in Sydney use steam in controlling roadside weeds. 18 months ago the contractor offered to send a tanker and prime mover up to Goulburn to a project I was working on to give a demo but nothing came of it. I can find out some contact details if you like. Whereabouts are you, Ross? If you are using a hay-type mulch 50-75mm thick that should cut the weeds down a bit. What sort of weeds have you got? roger -- %% May I have given you seeds, that you can turn into roots, that will bear fruit in the future. (Rudolf Steiner) %% Reiki Healer, Earth Healing, Natural Energy Divination Earthcare Environmental Solutions PO Box 2057 Queanbeyan NSW 2620 Australia Ph: +61 2 6255 3824 Fax: +61 2 6255 1028 Mob: +61 410 469 541 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BD and steam
Roger, I have looked into this on the net and only found very large equipment. If you find small units for individuals to use, I would be interested in hearing about them. Aren't they on a par with flame weeding? Merla Roger Pye wrote: Ross McDonald wrote: As a new convert to to the BD practice can anyone advise if steam is used and method of application in managing weeds in the vineyard. We are primarily using a modified cutoff plough and then reforming the soil beneath the vines - I dont like doing this as the soil is turned over too often and the feeder roots of the vines must suffer. we are also using mulch under the vines but the noxious weeds are still about. any comments? Ross McDonald Leichardt Council in Sydney use steam in controlling roadside weeds. 18 months ago the contractor offered to send a tanker and prime mover up to Goulburn to a project I was working on to give a demo but nothing came of it. I can find out some contact details if you like. Whereabouts are you, Ross? If you are using a hay-type mulch 50-75mm thick that should cut the weeds down a bit. What sort of weeds have you got? roger -- %% May I have given you seeds, that you can turn into roots, that will bear fruit in the future. (Rudolf Steiner) %% Reiki Healer, Earth Healing, Natural Energy Divination Earthcare Environmental Solutions PO Box 2057 Queanbeyan NSW 2620 Australia Ph: +61 2 6255 3824 Fax: +61 2 6255 1028 Mob: +61 410 469 541 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BD and steam
- Original Message - From: Steve Diver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 7:59 PM Subject: Re: BD and steam Flame, Infra-Red, Steam now you're Thanks Steve, for the hot info. In the fall, i was modifying my roofing torch for the same use, trying to alternate the torch head with the infared heating attachment which you can purchase for the top of a standard propane tank. I was pleasantly surprised to see the photos of the market garden in Colorado on the one site ...showing the use of the flamer since i worked there some 35 yrs ago! What a change! Now, without me going through all the data which you provide, can you say whether or not the heat treatment is the least harmful to the microlife compared to any other method of weed control?.manfred
bd preps
Hello All, We will have to purchase our preps from JPI, making our own is not possible. Might seem a bit of hypocracy, we are vegans, but we want the best for our patch of earth and biodynamics is part of the process. Already have some people that want food grown without the use of any animal products or residues. Research is providing a wealth of material locally to rebuild our acres; rock dusts, animal manures, paramagnetic rock, compost, sawdust,etc. We live in southern NM, a few miles from Mexico. Starting a school, a raw food learning center to open some tiime this year. Growing wheatgrass, sprouts, our own greens, veggies, planted over 500 various trees so far, off-grid, alternative building designs and methods, trying to lighten our footprint. Is there a best time for us to apply 500 501 here, can grow greens outside year round. How many times, and dates? Does anyone have plans for a stirring machine that they are willing to share? Thanks, DwayneDo you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Re: BD News/Dr.Thomas Cowan/Guelph/Toronto
Roughly translated means if i spend an extra 50 bucks a month on my internet connection and put a decent computer on it, I can listen to the tapes - tempting - yes - affordable ? not till it rains some! We would go from 26 k to 256k line speed LCharles OK Bandwidth works two ways. It's helpful to know your point of view. However, you should still be able to listen to these files, even on your 26kb connection by adjusting your buffering rate. It's like drip irrigating from a 1,000 gallon tank that you've got spaghetti seeping into 24 hours a day. If you can buffer far enough ahead, you shouldn't notice the slowness as you actually buffer. It's that waiting for the buffer to fill after the buffer has been set to the right size that we need to adjust. I'm not, however, getting enough feedback from the list to know what steps need to be taken to correct these problems. I'm no internet audio whiz. What would be most helpful is if people would talk to their ISPs and/or the RealAudio people to get suggestions for improving the playability of these files. Thanks -Allan
Re: BD News/Dr.Thomas Cowan/Guelph/Toronto
If you do not have a decent bandwidth - jetstream or even good phone lines - then the audio files will take ages to download. As for me. G - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:35 PM Subject: Re: BD News/Dr.Thomas Cowan/Guelph/Toronto The man from Garuda said: Bandwidth, bandwidth bandwidth Does this mean something to you? It doesn't mean anything to me. What are you talking about? (I'm asking in earnest) Thanks -Allan
Re: BD Brain Teasers
Roger: Sorry to have taken so long to reply to this thread, been busy lurking. The story as I have been told is that the preps were numbered by the powers that were, not Steiner and the numbers have no significance other than identification. In fact they have been numbered in the sequence that Steiner spoke of them in Lectures 4 5. Steiner specifically mentioned 502 - 507 as compost preps, The prep numbering started at 500 because up to 499 was allocated to other potions, medicinal ones I think. 508 was mentioned as a tea for rust or similar plant diseases and Steiner suggested they use homeopathic quantities on acreage. 509? would appear to be horn clay to me, as discussed on the list previously Steiner mentioned clay in passing but never went back to explain further. There are a number of other horn remedies used at various times by practitioners that have not been accepted by those who allocate the numbers, if such persons still exist, such as sulphur, copper basalt. Lastly it is my belief that it shouldn't matter where preps are placed in the compost heap, we are after all, seeking to transfer the energies of the preps to the compost as a whole and as they naturally complement each other why should their position matter? David C - Original Message - From: Roger Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 31 January 2003 2:56 PM Subject: BD Brain Teasers 1. Did Steiner really intend BD502-507 to be used solely in compost manufacture? 2. Did he identify equisetum as BD508 or was it someone else? 3. Is there a 'missing' BD509? If so, what might it and its purpose be? * Someone told me once, or I have read it and forgotten where, that the preps are not numbered sequentially but that 502-508 actually fall between 500 and 501. That is, the 'sequence' could be 500, 502, 503, 504, 505, 506, 507, 508, 501. The plant growth cycle is divisible into nine stages - mature seed, cotyledons, buds, leaves, calyx, petals, pistils, fruit, immature seed. There are at least twelve major building blocks of life - eg calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulphur, nitrogen, carbon, hydrogen, phosphorus, silicon, sodium, chlorine, manganese. There are also trace elements and other minerals that life needs - eg copper, mercury, iron, silver, tin, zinc, lead, aluminium. Now if we look at the preps we find that some of these are represented and the plant stages fit conveniently as well. 500 - horn manure - calcium - (balances soil, encourages microbial life) 502 - yarrow - sulphur - copper - (seed) 503 - chamomile - oxygen - mercury - (cotyledons) 504 - nettle - nitrogen - iron - (bud) 505 - oak bark - carbon - silver - (leaves) 506 - dandelion - hydrogen - tin - (calyx) 507 - valerian - phosphorus - lead - (petals) 508 - equisetum - silica - (pistils, stamen) (509) - ?? - ?? - (fruit) 501 - horn silica - light energy - (seed) Given the exactitude of scientists it seems unlikely that Steiner numbered his preparations in the order they 'came off the shelf' but that he had a reason for assigning the numbers as he did. One attribute all the preps have in common is energy. Could it be that in some way he assessed the amount of energy held within each prep, aligned it with the appropriate stage of plant growth, and numbered it accordingly? Back in 1924 the soils of Europe held a natural fertility that isn't there any more. Germany and Austria had been saddled with a reparations bill for world war I which was virtually impossible to pay (no prizes for guessing which country was behind that). Farmers were under pressure to produce more with less, added to which commodity prices were falling and would not recover for at least ten years. Hence the use of artificial fertilisers which were adversely affecting soil fertility. Steiner produced his preparations to counter those effects and take the soil back to its original fertility. How did he do that? Indeed, how did he know what that 'fertility' state was? Let us now enter the realm of fantasy. Let us suppose Steiner had a device which enabled him to measure the amount of 'standing' energy held in things and that at some time pre-superphosphate era he had measured the soil and come up with an amount I shall call X enertrons. In 1924 he remeasured the soil and it had a reading of X minus 100 enertrons. In developing the preps, he conceived that: horn manure would restore the level to X, seed germination required an additional 200en, cotyledrons another 300en buds another 400 leaves another 500 calyx another 600 petals another 700 pistils another 800 fruit another 900 mature seed another 1000 His insights and experience led him to the development of matching preps and initially he numbered them to suit: 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, 1000. However he already had 499 homeopathic remedies. So he kept the capital figures, prefixed them with '50
Re: BD Brain Teasers (2)
Lloyd Charles wrote: This is just a game OK? Near the dam are four black plastic 200 litre drums with push-fit lids, all were filled from the dam: No 1 was filled 10 Oct 02 when the dam was full and the water comparatively clear. (Vitality rating (VR) about 1500). No it isn't a game, Lloyd, sorry. I really am looking for answers here from the different perspectives demonstrated on this list. roger
Re: BD Brain Teasers (2)
- Original Message - From: Roger Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 10:45 PM Subject: Re: BD Brain Teasers (2) Lloyd Charles wrote: This is just a game OK? Near the dam are four black plastic 200 litre drums with push-fit lids, all were filled from the dam: No 1 was filled 10 Oct 02 when the dam was full and the water comparatively clear. (Vitality rating (VR) about 1500). No it isn't a game, Lloyd, sorry. I really am looking for answers here from the different perspectives demonstrated on this list. roger I'm not into competitions but - you have my answers as to what I would expect to find in those barrels right now 1 good clean water (could drink it) 2 weed pepper thats run out of steam and needs re potentising 3 slow brew compost tea thats gone off a bit but still usable and beneficial to the plants (because of the way it was made) 4 'off' water a bit smelly / stale (I'm not gonna drink from this barrel) I have reasons that make sense to me - based on the very limited information you provided - for these answers I have very good reasons for my opinion on the tea barrel that I think James would agree with and Elaine Ingham would not. More later if you like Cheers Lloyd Charles
BD News/Dr.Thomas Cowan/Guelph/Toronto
Re: Dr. Cowan, anthroposophical md.etc. Though i could not attend, i heard reports that Dr Cowan received standing ovation from about 700 Organic and a few dozen BD growers attending his keynote address at the annual Guelph organic conference 2 weeks ago. I did make it to his subsequent presentation in Toronto, and was further inspired by his simple correlations of RS observations regarding human health...ie... ... the description of the segmented human skeleton as a resonant instrument whose own integrity determines much of the status of the whole organism. Paraphrasing: If you can't eat the bugs and worms directly for the nutrient value, then pass them through the chickens firststressing the accessible Omega factor in skeletal health just as grass fed cows convert the solar to the molar. ...manfred
Re: BD News/Dr.Thomas Cowan/Guelph/Toronto
Manfred - Thanks for this pertinent post. Your efforts to report are appreciated. I have a 1.5 hour Tom Cowan presentation to post to the sound files when we get through this troubleshooting stage. How do we get through this troubleshooting stage, well, people, access the York file and tell me if it works for you or not and, if not, call your ISP and find out 'why' This is only going to happen if we work at it together and there's work that can be done from any seat. Thanks -Allan
Re: BD News/Dr.Thomas Cowan/Guelph/Toronto
Bandwidth, bandwidth bandwidth - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 7:34 AM Subject: Re: BD News/Dr.Thomas Cowan/Guelph/Toronto Manfred - Thanks for this pertinent post. Your efforts to report are appreciated. I have a 1.5 hour Tom Cowan presentation to post to the sound files when we get through this troubleshooting stage. How do we get through this troubleshooting stage, well, people, access the York file and tell me if it works for you or not and, if not, call your ISP and find out 'why' This is only going to happen if we work at it together and there's work that can be done from any seat. Thanks -Allan
Re: BD News/Dr.Thomas Cowan/Guelph/Toronto
The man from Garuda said: Bandwidth, bandwidth bandwidth Does this mean something to you? It doesn't mean anything to me. What are you talking about? (I'm asking in earnest) Thanks -Allan
Re: BD Brain Teasers
how does one contact Joe Stevens?
BD Brain Teasers (2)
Scenario: A paddock with a roughly circular dam (open water storage) capacity about 30,000 litres of water. Plenty of life in and around this dam (frogs, reeds,birds, assorted vegetation including grass, thistles, mustard weed, mullein, wild sage) which is fed by a nutrient rich underground stream coming in from the west. Rainfall is less than 12 inches a year. There is an outlet on the eastern 'side' at ground level, aside from a little underground seepage it only runs in times of heavy rain. Near the dam are four black plastic 200 litre drums with push-fit lids, all were filled from the dam: No 1 was filled 10 Oct 02 when the dam was full and the water comparatively clear. (Vitality rating (VR) about 1500). Nos 2 and 3 were filled 12 Oct 02 immediately after 7,000 litres had been pumped from the dam. There had been no rain, the underground inlet feed was reduced and evaporation was increasing so the water was 'gluggy' to say the least. VR was then 2000. No 2 was potentised the same day as a weed pepper. A manure/molasses based compost tea was started in No 3 mid-November. The tea was finished by 1 Dec and made ready for spraying out on 10 Dec (but was not used). No 4 was filled 10 Dec immediately after another 7,000 litres had been pumped from the dam. There had still not been any rain, the dam level was down, so this water was very thick indeed (VR 2500). The four drums have been standing in the open in very hot conditions with lids fitted to reduce evaporation. Their contents were last looked at 21 Jan 03. Imagine you did the looking - what would you expect to find in terms of water quality, temperature and VR? (VR equates to lifeforce. For comparison purposes: the VR of rainwater falling on the Snowy Mountains is about 1500; of a reasonably fit person first thing after rising but before breakfast, 850; of a weed (african lovegrass), 500; of a growing vegetable (tomato plant), 1500; of a healthy tree (eucalypt, 20 metres), 60,000 (but this includes a 'contained habitat' loading factor). roger
Re: BD Brain Teasers (2)
This is just a game OK? Near the dam are four black plastic 200 litre drums with push-fit lids, all were filled from the dam: No 1 was filled 10 Oct 02 when the dam was full and the water comparatively clear. (Vitality rating (VR) about 1500). No 1 good clean water still - Energy rating 27/36 No 2 as a potentised weed pepper its kaput! activity level against the intended weeds 20/180, general water energy rating 50/180 (needs repotentising to work) No 3 stinky tea - if its been left undisturbed there should be a layer of white mold or similar covering the top - the liquid will be a little 'off' slight vinegary smell, with some anaerobic poop in a layer at the bottom (dont disturb that) - but still usable for the plants on the reserve - ER of plants50/180 plants plus tea 70/180 - No 4 This water is tired but ok ER 50/180 Just a game right!! LCharles
Re: BD Brain Teasers
Hi Roger, My fantasy is a little differnt to yours. Perhaps Steiner wasn't the one who gave the numbers, perhaps he just gave the recipies. Steiner was concerned that we had active links with the cosmos, the closer part of which are the seven visible planetry bodies. Perhaps the two preparations matured in cows horns relate to the winter Sun and its digestive activity and the summer Sun and its ripening capacity. Perhaps these two were given as a duality. Then we might have Moon / oakbark in skull in water / condencing calcium into carbon 505 Venus / Yarrow florets in a stags bladder / condencing the airy senitive into the watery element of the bladder and urine. potasium, cu. sulfer. Mercury / Chamomile that grows as a weed in anaerobic places and whose flowers bring health to an unsettled digestive tract, oxygen, growth and expansion. Is able to quell smells in anaerobic rotting processes. Cacium and sulfer as a catalyst. Mars / where light penetrates into plant tissue bringing a finenes and delicacy to plant growth. Magnesium plus nitrogen iron calcium etc. Jupiter the dandelion flower is tenuously attached by a delicate hollow tube, almost not of this world. Wrapped in a messentry which is the message centre of the body. The sola plexus divides the upper from the lower Is a messanger from the cosmic world to the plant world as well as from the plant world to the cosmic.One might describe it as a cosmic breathing. To help the plants find what they need. Tin, zinc and hydrogen. Saturn. the lord of warmth and cool. The boundary of the visible planets so intended to form a boundary or skin to a compost or manure heap. To be an individual one needs a boundary or a skin. Lead, phosphorus. You ask the question as to what might correspond to the fruit; what about clay? I present this as another view and I'm sure others have their veiws that are different than these two. Well thats my brain gym for today!! Best wishes, Peter. - Original Message - From: Roger Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 4:56 PM Subject: BD Brain Teasers 1. Did Steiner really intend BD502-507 to be used solely in compost manufacture? 2. Did he identify equisetum as BD508 or was it someone else? 3. Is there a 'missing' BD509? If so, what might it and its purpose be? * Someone told me once, or I have read it and forgotten where, that the preps are not numbered sequentially but that 502-508 actually fall between 500 and 501. That is, the 'sequence' could be 500, 502, 503, 504, 505, 506, 507, 508, 501. The plant growth cycle is divisible into nine stages - mature seed, cotyledons, buds, leaves, calyx, petals, pistils, fruit, immature seed. There are at least twelve major building blocks of life - eg calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulphur, nitrogen, carbon, hydrogen, phosphorus, silicon, sodium, chlorine, manganese. There are also trace elements and other minerals that life needs - eg copper, mercury, iron, silver, tin, zinc, lead, aluminium. Now if we look at the preps we find that some of these are represented and the plant stages fit conveniently as well. 500 - horn manure - calcium - (balances soil, encourages microbial life) 502 - yarrow - sulphur - copper - (seed) 503 - chamomile - oxygen - mercury - (cotyledons) 504 - nettle - nitrogen - iron - (bud) 505 - oak bark - carbon - silver - (leaves) 506 - dandelion - hydrogen - tin - (calyx) 507 - valerian - phosphorus - lead - (petals) 508 - equisetum - silica - (pistils, stamen) (509) - ?? - ?? - (fruit) 501 - horn silica - light energy - (seed) Given the exactitude of scientists it seems unlikely that Steiner numbered his preparations in the order they 'came off the shelf' but that he had a reason for assigning the numbers as he did. One attribute all the preps have in common is energy. Could it be that in some way he assessed the amount of energy held within each prep, aligned it with the appropriate stage of plant growth, and numbered it accordingly? Back in 1924 the soils of Europe held a natural fertility that isn't there any more. Germany and Austria had been saddled with a reparations bill for world war I which was virtually impossible to pay (no prizes for guessing which country was behind that). Farmers were under pressure to produce more with less, added to which commodity prices were falling and would not recover for at least ten years. Hence the use of artificial fertilisers which were adversely affecting soil fertility. Steiner produced his preparations to counter those effects and take the soil back to its original fertility. How did he do that? Indeed, how did he know what that 'fertility' state was? Let us now enter the realm of fantasy. Let us suppose Steiner had a device which enabled him to measure the amount of 'standing' energy held in things and that at some time pre-superphosphate era he had
Re: BD Brain Teasers
Gday Roger Lets have a bit of fun with this 1. Did Steiner really intend BD502-507 to be used solely in compost manufacture? No 2. Did he identify equisetum as BD508 or was it someone else? Someone Else 3. Is there a 'missing' BD509? If so, what might it and its purpose be? Yes Horn Clay * I have absolutely no experience or background knowledge to back this up - just a mental picture of Steiner lecturing to those farmers years ago and I dont think the numbers were part of the deal at that stage I reckon they were someone else's invention at a later time. There is no number system used in the Kolisko book , they refer to the various preparations as dandelion prepared as indicated by Dr Steiner or similar terminology. I'm a raw newcomer to this but for me the numbers dont fit for the man and what he was doing at the time. I guess there will be a bunch of people come out to prove me wrong - good - I'll stand corrected (and unconvinced) Cheers all Lloyd Charles
Re: BD Brain Teasers
The bd remedies took up the numbers 500-508 because the medecal remedies ended at 499. If you arrange them in the compost heap energetically: 500* *[507]#***503*** 504* 505* **506**502* 501* 508* # according to the research from Joe Stevens and his careful look at the original German and other notes from Rudy, it really sez to add the valerian when the compost is finished. I have done several batches this way, as reported to bdnow, and have increasingly dramatic results from past experiences. Try it. I have been working with different clay remedies, not horn clay. I feel there is definite need for clay, Hugo Erbe has described a clay remedy with wheat groats and clay in a bovine esophagus. We will be making some at JPI this year. The compost remedies themselves take on a clay like property. Are we not the clay in the bd remedies ourselves??? I prepare all my composts with this arrangement of remdies. Notice how the last digits add up to nine, that i how the preps energetically compliment eachother. I have been adding the 500 and 501 for over a year and like the results. The 508 adds great fungal activity to the compost.
Re: BD Brain Teasers
I have been adding the 500 and 501 for over a year and like the results. The 508 adds great fungal activity to the compost. Steve - Do you place 500 and 501 in the pile as you would any of the (non-liquid) preps in the pile otherwise? -Allan
Re: BD Brain Teasers
In a message dated 1/31/03 8:20:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steve - Do you place 500 and 501 in the pile as you would any of the (non-liquid) preps in the pile otherwise? -Allan Yes. That diagram represents the way the remedies go in the pile!!! sstorch
Re: BD Brain Teasers
If you arrange them in the compost heap energetically: 500* *[507]#***503*** 504* 505* **506**502* 501* 508* Hi Steve Do you (or would you) use this same pattern and the main preps too (500,501,508) when you make barrel compost, and BD fish and kelp solutions? Thanks Lloyd Charles
Re: BD Brain Teasers
Roger which device do you use to measure engery ? 509 is horn clay, mediator between 500 and 501 As I said before, this is a fantasy. However, I do have a device which measures energy and this tells me that BD500 = 100, BD501 = 1000, and chamomile, nettle and dandelion = 200, 300 and 600 respectively. I can't measure the others because I don't have any but 5 out of 10 seems pretty good to me! So - what is BD509 and what does it do? roger Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Demeter Certified Vineyard Farm http://feast-of-fields.ca EcoVit Aerobic Compost Tea http://compost-tea.ca R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7
Re: BD Brain Teasers
BD fish and kelp solutions ?? me tell me about these. Hi Steve Do you (or would you) use this same pattern and the main preps too (500,501,508) when you make barrel compost, and BD fish and kelp solutions? Thanks Lloyd Charles Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Demeter Certified Vineyard Farm http://feast-of-fields.ca EcoVit Aerobic Compost Tea http://compost-tea.ca R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7
Re: BD Brain Teasers
In a message dated 1/31/03 8:33:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Steve Do you (or would you) use this same pattern and the main preps too (500,501,508) when you make barrel compost, and BD fish and kelp solutions? Thanks Lloyd Charles Yes, all compost and bc, and tea...sstorch
Re: BD Brain Teasers
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 12:40 AM Subject: Re: BD Brain Teasers BD fish and kelp solutions ?? me tell me about these. Another way for broadacre farmers to get the influence of the compost preps working over their farms - contact Cheryl Kemp for more info on this Cheryl Kemp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cheers Lloyd Charles
BD Brain Teasers
1. Did Steiner really intend BD502-507 to be used solely in compost manufacture? 2. Did he identify equisetum as BD508 or was it someone else? 3. Is there a 'missing' BD509? If so, what might it and its purpose be? * Someone told me once, or I have read it and forgotten where, that the preps are not numbered sequentially but that 502-508 actually fall between 500 and 501. That is, the 'sequence' could be 500, 502, 503, 504, 505, 506, 507, 508, 501. The plant growth cycle is divisible into nine stages - mature seed, cotyledons, buds, leaves, calyx, petals, pistils, fruit, immature seed. There are at least twelve major building blocks of life - eg calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulphur, nitrogen, carbon, hydrogen, phosphorus, silicon, sodium, chlorine, manganese. There are also trace elements and other minerals that life needs - eg copper, mercury, iron, silver, tin, zinc, lead, aluminium. Now if we look at the preps we find that some of these are represented and the plant stages fit conveniently as well. 500 - horn manure - calcium - (balances soil, encourages microbial life) 502 - yarrow - sulphur - copper - (seed) 503 - chamomile - oxygen - mercury - (cotyledons) 504 - nettle - nitrogen - iron - (bud) 505 - oak bark - carbon - silver - (leaves) 506 - dandelion - hydrogen - tin - (calyx) 507 - valerian - phosphorus - lead - (petals) 508 - equisetum - silica - (pistils, stamen) (509) - ?? - ?? - (fruit) 501 - horn silica - light energy - (seed) Given the exactitude of scientists it seems unlikely that Steiner numbered his preparations in the order they 'came off the shelf' but that he had a reason for assigning the numbers as he did. One attribute all the preps have in common is energy. Could it be that in some way he assessed the amount of energy held within each prep, aligned it with the appropriate stage of plant growth, and numbered it accordingly? Back in 1924 the soils of Europe held a natural fertility that isn't there any more. Germany and Austria had been saddled with a reparations bill for world war I which was virtually impossible to pay (no prizes for guessing which country was behind that). Farmers were under pressure to produce more with less, added to which commodity prices were falling and would not recover for at least ten years. Hence the use of artificial fertilisers which were adversely affecting soil fertility. Steiner produced his preparations to counter those effects and take the soil back to its original fertility. How did he do that? Indeed, how did he know what that 'fertility' state was? Let us now enter the realm of fantasy. Let us suppose Steiner had a device which enabled him to measure the amount of 'standing' energy held in things and that at some time pre-superphosphate era he had measured the soil and come up with an amount I shall call X enertrons. In 1924 he remeasured the soil and it had a reading of X minus 100 enertrons. In developing the preps, he conceived that: horn manure would restore the level to X, seed germination required an additional 200en, cotyledrons another 300en buds another 400 leaves another 500 calyx another 600 petals another 700 pistils another 800 fruit another 900 mature seed another 1000 His insights and experience led him to the development of matching preps and initially he numbered them to suit: 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, 1000. However he already had 499 homeopathic remedies. So he kept the capital figures, prefixed them with '50' and knocked off the remaining zeros, giving him 501, 502 . . . 509, 501. As he could not have two 501s, and did not have a 500 either, he took a further step and changed the first 501 to 500. As I said before, this is a fantasy. However, I do have a device which measures energy and this tells me that BD500 = 100, BD501 = 1000, and chamomile, nettle and dandelion = 200, 300 and 600 respectively. I can't measure the others because I don't have any but 5 out of 10 seems pretty good to me! So - what is BD509 and what does it do? roger
Re: Garuda BD Sprays results
Glen, I don't see Plant trials after going to case studies... JS From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:27:44 +1300 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Garuda BD Sprays results http://get.to/garuda go to 'Case Studies' (on left), then 'Plant trials'
BD NOW!! subscribe/unsubscribe
The BDNOW E-mail list is open to all. Subscribing is easy: simply sendan e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "subscribe BDNOW!!" in the Subjectfield. (I'll need your name and physical address in the Body of themessage, but it will be released to no one) To unsubscribe from bdnow, simply send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put"unsubscribe BDNOW!!" in the Subject field. This list is archived at:http://csf.colorado.edu/biodynamics/ However, I found this site that has a much better search http://www.mail-archive.com/bdnow%40envirolink.org/ Perry Please, how canmy e-mail address be taken off of your listings?
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Steve, That is a great find and suggestion!It worked very well for me connected at 21.6!!! So the technologies exist to work with slow connection speeds... how do we find out how "they" did it? Perry Fyi, the PowerPoint can be viewed online The audio can be heard
Garuda BD Sprays results
We have up dated our website with some pictures of the effects of some of our BD sprays http://get.to/garuda go to 'Case Studies' (on left), then 'Plant trials' There are some showing the effects of our possum spray on a tree that has been long term grazed by possums - this is not peppering. This method is based on the compost preps as reasonance harmonisers. Also rooting comp., frost protection and pictures of leaves showing the different growth habit from a couple of sprays. In short these pictures show the proof of the efficacy of Homeopathic BD preps and its further extension of Biodynamic applications. We will be posting Gill Cole's research paper on the efficacy of several Garuda sprays in a few days. Also a 'Growers Guide' to Garuda Sprays and 'Common Questions' section have been added. enjoy GA
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Allan, Hugh Lovel's excellent 3-hr. presentation at the Guelph Organic conference a couple years ago was professionally recorded and sold at the conference. I believe he retained a copy. Of course it's up to him whether he feels it appropriate to fwd to you.(or to copy). It was interspersed during one session with some references to his concurrent slideshow, but the wealth of his accessible verbal info would outweigh those non-visual factors. .manfred That sounds GREAT, manfred! -Allan
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
A wav. file of 30 mins is 28mgs or so A CD would be best to send to you. OK G - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 4:00 PM Subject: Re: BD Now! Audio Files Twas thinking. If wav. is very common then I could probably put the files on my site and you have a link to that page? from you BD audio page. Saves alot of middle bisso. Glen Sorry, it's not the way the system works, Glen. I have to substantially massage the files so that they can be streamed. -Allan
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Allan, Hugh Lovel's excellent 3-hr. presentation at the Guelph Organic conference a couple years ago was professionally recorded and sold at the conference. I believe he retained a copy. Of course it's up to him whether he feels it appropriate to fwd to you.(or to copy). It was interspersed during one session with some references to his concurrent slideshow, but the wealth of his accessible verbal info would outweigh those non-visual factors. .manfred That sounds GREAT, manfred! -Allan Dear List, I do not have a copy. However, I have no objections to anyone with a copy sharing it. Best, Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
RE: BD Now! Audio Files
Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me know, ok? We'll count lurkers in this poll also. No computer audio equipment for listening here. (No CDs either, we're really stoneage.) Would you include the audio file web address in the BDNow ads that have run in Acres and Lilipoh? Or is that cluttering? __ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Allan, The settings on Real Player go as low as 28.8... however, I usually log on at 24.. sometimes getting to 26.4 if I'm lucky!!! Perry - I didn't understand the extent of your problem. Anything under 28.8 is going to experience problems unknown to beta testers, etc. What do you need to get a faster connection? IS this just a modem thing or are your lines that poor? Folks - Think of Perry, please, when you do not edit your replies!! I bet we have readers with even lower connections. -Allan
RE: BD Now! Audio Files
Thanks, my friend. It's good to hear that they are being made use of. I guess I was hoping that they would be more of a stimulus for discussion. Maybe I'll put counters on the files and then just assume the messages are getting out in the world. Thanks for the feedback, my friend. -Allan ?Allan: I have listened to all three presentations and I bought VANDANA SHIVA's books too. I think your effort is worthy even if just a handful of people get inspired and decide to do something about it.
RE: BD Now! Audio Files
No computer audio equipment for listening here. (No CDs either, we're really stoneage.) Would you include the audio file web address in the BDNow ads that have run in Acres and Lilipoh? Or is that cluttering? Wow, Nancy! Let me know when you need suggestions for upgrading. What needs to be done is to move the audio files to www.gardeningforthefuture.com and give that as the BD Now! registration address.
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
- Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 10:54 PM Subject: Re: BD Now! Audio Files Allan, The settings on Real Player go as low as 28.8... however, I usually log on at 24.. sometimes getting to 26.4 if I'm lucky!!! Perry - I didn't understand the extent of your problem. Anything under 28.8 is going to experience problems unknown to beta testers, etc. What do you need to get a faster connection? IS this just a modem thing or are your lines that poor? Folks - Think of Perry, please, when you do not edit your replies!! I bet we have readers with even lower connections. -Allan Allan I am on line now at 26.4 occassionally we might get 28k (a lucky break and not often) - our service is more reliable than some I have compared notes with in similar rural areas of the US but fast it is not - the cure to this is to download then play but download times equally slow - I think this is a situation where you might have to forget about a few of us. If we want to go fast we have to go play with sattellites - its real good but pricey. Incidentally this is not much of a problem with normal stuff of the list - text only messages however long are not that slow. Cheers Lloyd Charles
BD Now! Audio Files
I haven't noticed a lot of interest in the audio files that are posted at www.ibiblio.org/biodynamics Case in point: I made a call for other people's tapes and have received to replies. Let me know, ok? We'll count lurkers in this poll also. Allan, a couple of points. 1) I'm surprised that you are tying up your own computer. I guess that's setting up Real files. It doesn't tie up to do the streaming does it? If so. then maybe you can find a non-profit server to host? It seems like a lot to ask of you. 2) Thanks for providing this valuable service. I'm really glad the resource is available. And having said that -- I haven't used it myself. I listened to a bit of some tapes but didn't want to take the time to listen to the whole thing. I work at my computer but somehow don't find it conducive to listen to, even for music. And audio lectures are a demanding media, you can't just let it pass by like video or jump forward/backward like text, you have to be involved to actually listen. So even tho I think this is a great resource, I'm not likely to be using it much. When I go into research mode and find a relevant tape, I would want to listen once and take some notes. That would be about it. I would probably not listen again tho I might reference the source material. BTW, I have it in mind to tape some future events, just don't have any ready at the moment. 3) On the lurker thing -- I'm not sure I get it. I don't always post on every subject and there are many times I wish others were as judicial. We get a lot of unneeded shlock on this list, in addition to comments that I highly value. That's freedom of expression, can't have one w/o the other. Overall, this is a great group, what's the problem? David Robison
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Alan I can appreciate that sound recordings of my presentations at your conference may be difficult to follow without the pictures. I have played around on my computer and can record audio (.wav) so that it replays on Real player and WIndows media player etc. I would be interested in recording a session or two for you if this fits your technology. I could send them over on a CD if the files are too big. What do you think? Glen - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 6:38 AM Subject: BD Now! Audio Files Folks - I haven't noticed a lot of interest in the audio files that are posted at www.ibiblio.org/biodynamics I've agreed to post the rest of the recordings from Sally Fallon's 2002 Weston A. Price conference, so there's another 7 or so files about to go up. Posting files takes a very long time. One one hour presentation can tie my computer up for 3 hours and myself up for almost that long. Don't get my wrong, I'm excited to make streaming sound available to students of biological farming and healthy eating, but I don't want to invest any more time and effort into this project if people are not able to utilize it. Case in point: I made a call for other people's tapes and have received to replies. Let me know, ok? We'll count lurkers in this poll also.
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Alan I can appreciate that sound recordings of my presentations at your conference may be difficult to follow without the pictures. I have played around on my computer and can record audio (.wav) so that it replays on Real player and WIndows media player etc. I would be interested in recording a session or two for you if this fits your technology. I could send them over on a CD if the files are too big. What do you think? Glen Im very interested, Glen. You can put an hour in aiff on a CD (more or less) I can translate .wav also. I work on a Mac, but a Mac is open to most formats. Sounds very good, Glenn!! THANKS!!
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Allan, Hugh Lovel's excellent 3-hr. presentation at the Guelph Organic conference a couple years ago was professionally recorded and sold at the conference. I believe he retained a copy. Of course it's up to him whether he feels it appropriate to fwd to you.(or to copy). It was interspersed during one session with some references to his concurrent slideshow, but the wealth of his accessible verbal info would outweigh those non-visual factors. manfred
BD Now! Audio Files
Folks - I haven't noticed a lot of interest in the audio files that are posted at www.ibiblio.org/biodynamics I've agreed to post the rest of the recordings from Sally Fallon's 2002 Weston A. Price conference, so there's another 7 or so files about to go up. Posting files takes a very long time. One one hour presentation can tie my computer up for 3 hours and myself up for almost that long. Don't get my wrong, I'm excited to make streaming sound available to students of biological farming and healthy eating, but I don't want to invest any more time and effort into this project if people are not able to utilize it. Case in point: I made a call for other people's tapes and have received to replies. Let me know, ok? We'll count lurkers in this poll also.
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Wow, Allen! I've sent people to the site to listen to Percy Schmeiser. I think you have the makings of a good site if you can get more items. Even if you can't I hope you leave what you have up. Patti Berg Allan Balliett wrote: Folks - I haven't noticed a lot of interest in the audio files that are posted at www.ibiblio.org/biodynamics I've agreed to post the rest of the recordings from Sally Fallon's 2002 Weston A. Price conference, so there's another 7 or so files about to go up. Posting files takes a very long time. One one hour presentation can tie my computer up for 3 hours and myself up for almost that long. Don't get my wrong, I'm excited to make streaming sound available to students of biological farming and healthy eating, but I don't want to invest any more time and effort into this project if people are not able to utilize it. Case in point: I made a call for other people's tapes and have received to replies. Let me know, ok? We'll count lurkers in this poll also.
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Allan - When you posted the note about htttp://www.ibiblio.org/biodynamics a short while back, I went and listened to Percy Schmeiser. He was quite sincere and interesting to listen to. He struck a chord in my heart, and the activist spirit got to boiling about Monsanto police tactics. Seed is primal. We have got to protect farmers' rights to save seeds!! So I think the compilation of audio materials in a central location is well worth your effort, and over time the usage will grow and grow. In fact, I want to learn more about audio techniques and blend slides with audio for web-based delivery. Steve Diver
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Allan, I've got a tape of Fred Kirschenmann at the IFOAM conf. last summer. Let me know if you'd like it. My connection is slow, so theyare hard to listen to since it keeps stopping to reload. I reset the buffering time to a longer time, and that helps, butthat just makes it longer when it does stop... Anyone else having trouble listening or is it me... Is there a way to save the file? I thought I could right click -"Save target as", but it only saves the link and then reloads to RealPlayer to open. Perry Wow, Allen! I made a call for other people's tapes and have received to replies. Let me know, ok? We'll count lurkers in this poll also.
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
- Original Message - From: Perry Clutts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:44 PM Subject: Re: BD Now! Audio Files Allan, My connection is slow, so they are hard to listen to since it keeps stopping to reload. I reset the buffering time to a longer time, and that helps, but that just makes it longer when it does stop... Anyone else having trouble listening or is it me... Is there a way to save the file? I thought I could right click - Save target as, but it only saves the link and then reloads to RealPlayer to open. Perry Hi Perry I have the same problem - i think my computer is not up to the job - i get about one minute play then about four minute reloading the buffer (whatever that is) Lloyd Charles
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
It's my understanding that internal settings in the Real Audio player will make it effetive with connections as slow as 48k. Have you guys set up all those prefs to let the software know how slow your connection is? Have you tried doubling the memory allotment see how that affects the performance? And, if the above fails, howabout one or the other of you contacting Real Audio to see if we can find a solution. Myself, when I was doing this stuff on a modem, making those custom settings made all the difference. llan, My connection is slow, so they are hard to listen to since it keeps stopping to reload. I reset the buffering time to a longer time, and that helps, but that just makes it longer when it does stop... Anyone else having trouble listening or is it me... Is there a way to save the file? I thought I could right click - Save target as, but it only saves the link and then reloads to RealPlayer to open. Perry Hi Perry I have the same problem - i think my computer is not up to the job - i get about one minute play then about four minute reloading the buffer (whatever that is) Lloyd Charles
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Wow, Allen! I've sent people to the site to listen to Percy Schmeiser. I think you have the makings of a good site if you can get more items. Even if you can't I hope you leave what you have up. Patti Berg Good to hear of your good work, Patti! Thanks for passing the word! -Allan
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
I've got a tape of Fred Kirschenmann at the IFOAM conf. last summer. Let me know if you'd like it. This w.b. awesome. A copy of your tape is preferred. Allan Balliett POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
In fact, I want to learn more about audio techniques and blend slides with audio for web-based delivery. Steve Diver YOu mean a recording of a speaker with the accompanying slides? That's the next step here. If you mean set up your powerpoint presentations with voiceover, then I recommend reconsideration. Everyone wants things to move faster, and all that. Thanks for the feedback. -Allan
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Steve - It dawns on me that you, of all people, would probably have tapes to contribute to this effort. -Allan
Re: BD Now! Audio Files
Allan, The settings on Real Playergo as low as 28.8... however, I usually log on at 24.. sometimes getting to 26.4 if I'm lucky!!!I did see a toggle that will allow the whole file to download before playing. I'll give that a try tomorrow. That would at leastbe a better way to hear it without distraction. I'll write Real and get their suggestions for slow connections too. Perry internal settings in the Real Audio player will make it effective with connections as slow as 48k.And, if the above fails, howabout one or the other of you contacting Real Audio to see if we can find a solution.
BD biotech workshop proceedings publication
Dear fellow biodynamicists, I append below details of the proceedings of a workshop for the biotech and BD/organic agricultural sectors which took place in the fall in Scotland. Biodynamics was well represented amongst both the invited speakers and the participants. As you might expect, such an event was potentially a 'clash of cultures' but some interesting conversations developed which are fully reported in the proceedings. David Heaf Ifgene UK co-ordinator ~ The following publication is now available to order: Title: Genetic Engineering and the Intrinsic Value and Integrity of Animals and Plants -- Proceedings of a Workshop at the Royal Botanic Garden, Edinburgh, UK. Date: 18-21 September 2002 Editors: David Heaf Johannes Wirz Publisher: Ifgene - International Forum for Genetic Engineering, Publication date: December 2002 ISBN: 0-9541035-1-3 Format: A4; 116 pages; 35 illustrations Contents: What do we mean by the intrinsic value and integrity of plants and animals? -- Holmes Rolston III (Philosophy Department, Colorado University, USA); Engineering genesis: pioneering genetic engineering and ethics in Scotland -- Donald Bruce (Society, Religion Technology Project, Scotland); Seeing the integrity and intrinsic value of animals: developing appreciative modes of understanding -- Craig Holdrege (The Nature Institute, NY, USA); Does genetic engineering impact the intrinsic value and integrity of plants? -- Howard Davies (Scottish Crops Research Institute); Phenomenological studies on transgenic potatoes: genetic modification adds more than intended traits -- Ruth Richter (Naturwissenschaftliche Sektion, Goetheanum, Switzerland); Does genetic engineering impact the intrinsic value and integrity of animals? -- Henk Verhoog (Louis Bolk Institute, Netherlands); Does genetic engineering impact the intrinsic value and integrity of animals? -- Harry Griffin (Roslin Institute, Scotland); Why is it in the farmer's interest to pay attention to the intrinsic value and integrity of animals and plants? -- Timothy Brink (Demeter Standards, UK); New rules for a new situation: protecting animals' interests in the era of genetic engineering -- Mike Radford (Law Department, Aberdeen University, Scotland); Could genetic engineering be part of a sustainable breeding approach? -- Christina Henatsch (Kultursaat, Germany); Naturalness and breeding in organic farming -- Ton Baars (Louis Bolk Institute, Netherlands); The socio-economic implications of biotechnology in agriculture: exploring the issues -- Ben Davies, Caspian Richards and Clive L. Spash (Macaulay Institute, Scotland); Progress towards a science of organisms: genetically modified animals Bruce Whitelaw (Roslin Institute, Scotland); Towards a science of organism: lessons to learn from phenomenology -- Johannes Wirz (Naturwissenschaftliche Sektion, Goetheanum, Switzerland); Making a social contract for biotechnology -- Donald Bruce (Society, Religion Technology Project, Scotland); Genetic engineering and intrinsic value: the New Zealand experience -- Alastair S. Gunn and Kelly A. Tudhope (Philosophy Department, Waikato University, New Zealand); The relation between ethics and aesthetics in connection with moral judgements about gene technology -- Michael Hauskeller (Exeter Genomics Research Centre, UK); Maize landrace integrity and transgenic introgression: the recent Mexican experience -- Fernando Ortiz Monasterio (Cibiogem, Mexico); Experts and the public assessing intrinsic ethical concerns: experiences with the Dutch animal biotechnology policy -- Lino Paula (Ecological Evolutionary Sciences Institute, Leiden, Netherlands); Substantial equivalence and ethical equivalence: contrasting approaches -- Sylvie Pouteau (National Agricultural Research Institute (INRA), France); The intrinsic value of micro-organisms -- Judyth Sassoon (Biochemistry Department, Bath University, UK). Includes transcripts of all discussions. Summary and full details of how to order are at: http://www.anth.org/ifgene/2002.htm Enquiries: David Heaf Email: 101622 (dot) 2773 (at) compuserve (dot) com Tel/Fax: +44 (0)1766 523181 Ifgene UK Hafan Cae Llwyd Llanystumdwy LL52 0SG UK
RE: BD Farming in America
As the snow came fluttering down I thought of snowmen Thats the child in me I was re-born And then recalled Watching Bees in clover GM Pollen mixing with wild corn I looked into the mirror And remembered I was nearly 60 and could see Fancy thinking I'd become a child again Snow though really does strange things to me It flutters with such freedom over everything Nobody escapes Its in our face Children quickly go and find their sledges Then go off sliding all over the place As the snow came fluttering down to-day I wondered What children think as their daddies go to war I am nearly 60 and I'm worried For I'd hoped it wouldn't happen anymore Rex Tyler -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Hugh Lovel Sent: 06 January 2003 15:15 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: BD Farming in America Dear Kristy, et. al., I think what you, Jeff, Allan and others, particularly in Hawaii, Texas, the midwest and out on the west coast, have done as regards making BD info available to the public is quite commendable. Also let us not forget the salubrious efforts of Hugh Courtney, without whom we would have little in terms of availability of the Steiner remedies, to say nothing of availability of literature and presence at conferences auch as ACRES. I do not agree that what Alex Podolinsky has done in Australia is any model to copy, as he has run a rigid and even hidebound program where those who venture outside of his box can be excommunicated. But at least he has created a support system for farmers who want to put BD into practice. The BDGFAA (Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association of Australia) arose in response to the need for more openness than Podolinsky allowed, and it wouldn't do to give Podolinsky full credit for their efforts. They have really done a lot--perhaps more than Alex--to spread BD in Australia. Here in the US it has always been my impression--though for a brief period we did have a national extension agent--that there was no real support for farmers from the central organization. If anything there was a cult atmosphere coming from the central offices and I think it discouraged and turned off people right and left. In my own case I have let my membership in the BD Association lapse after 25 years of trying to pull biodynamics forward against the inertia, resistance and cult atmosphere of the central offices. Maybe Greg is being extreme in his criticism, but when Demeter excommunicated him and prohibited Victor Landa from using the term biodynamic on any products not certified by Demeter I had my fill of wrongheadedness. I'm calling what I do Quantum Agriculture and I only use the term biodynamic in a transitional way. I don't support the BDA or Demeter in any way at this point. Probably I'm one of those Greg refered to who dropped out because they cannot stomach the dogmatism, obstructionism and cultishness any further. I believe I'm pretty thick skinned or I couldn't have taken it as long as I did. The whole fumble of claiming to be the focus of the CSA movement and then doing nothing--even terminating the CSA conferences--was vexation enough and I should have left then. But there have been enough other blunders, including terminating the national extension program, that I should have identified the BDA as non-viable long ago. As far as I'm concerned they are baggage--excess baggage in my case. I can't see any reason for name calling or getting upset or any of that jazz. I have noticed that I'm reaching a wider audience with field broadcasters by calling my work quantum agriculture instead of BD. I suspect BD has a notorious reputation as being inscrutable, cultish and a big turn-off to many farmers. Really most farmers don't understand quantum mechanics either, but I don't seem to face anything like the rejection of my message by couching it in those terms. My lecture room at ACRES was full this time. I seem to be getting further by leaving BD behind. Does that tell you anything? It's still the same remedies, still the same insights into how nature works, I still talk about Rudolf Steiner and the whole nine yards. I just leave the terminology of biodynamic behind. Quite frankly I think it is just fine that Demeter owns the term. Let them have it. As far as I'm concerned it was a big lead anchor around my waist. Best, Hugh Lovel Dear Allan, We have certainly made ourselves available regionally, and offer advice and suggestions for numerous growers each year, plus orgainzing educational events. Jeff Poppen is always also taking in visitors, and holding educational events, writing and doing the TV shows. Allan, you do a huge amount of educational work yourself. JPI has its new farmer advisory program. I think we are wishing for an outdated paradigm when we expect to have some top down organizational figure heads baby us through our movement. This is the era of the conciousness soul, the age of individuality. What ever is lacking
BD NOW! Archives was Re: tree topic
Could some one be kind enough to give step by step instruction for accessing the archive? I have never made it. Gil Gil - We have two archives. This first one is the most complete: http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/ The second is by far the easiest to use: http://www.mail-archive.com In either case, go to these urls and then look for the BD Now! archives. Let me know if this doesn't work. Thanks -Allan
Re: BD Farming in America
David If you want good leadership in a democratic organisation, or country for that matter, it is the responsibility of the membership or citizens to use their rights to ensure that A) You have good leaders and B) The leaders carry out the masses wishes. If only this was possible. In my experience, Positions of power are sought by people in need of power and in their need they are there to pursue their personal goals. We have one (too) long serving council member who -after being reelected at the last AGM- stated 'anything he does not want to happen in the association will not happen'. Too bad he did not say it before the election. This same member has been formally asked to resign by fellow council members, however due to a strickly controlled NZBDA media none of the general membership have heard anything abpout the debilitating effect he has had for many years. We need a free and open media to have a half decent form of democracy. A leadership which enpowers its membership will be supported by the membership. No membership support means they - as a whole- did not support your policies and actions. Glen A
Re: BD Farming in America
Hi! Gary, You make a very valid point. It is fine for those of us who have been around a while to speak in some sort of cryptic short hand, that only we understand, but what about the casual visitor or those early on the path and wondering what it is all about. Good point and one that should be addressed by Allan as the list Sysop. Most of the people on the list are much more experienced than I am. I have been non chemical for a period, organic for a shorter period and Biodynamic for even a lessor period. The further confuse you I am really into Permaculture, Radiesthesia and Radionics! All these fit together for me, into a way of producing food (mainly for me and my family) that is GM Free, Chemical Free and as healthy as we know at this point in time. In our heavily compromised soil in the remote parts of Oz, we have to start with balancing the minerals in the soil and adding a lot of carbon, just to get a soil that was worth starting on. BD, as covered on the list, be it US or Oz or NZ or other, is the cumulating of many years of evolution, starting from the original lectures by RS. RS encouraged us to further develop his work and to add to it. Unfortunately, like happens in some religions, there are those who believe they are the only ones who know the the truth. On this list there are also many free minded ones who know enough, to know they do not know it all. They are the ones who you should share with. They will admit they can still learn. They will tell you all they know and take time to listen to you. If you have specific questions, feel free to post them to the list. Gil Port Lincoln Oz. gary elliott wrote: What is it you have, and why should I listen? That, my friends, is the nub of what you need to answer.. Clarify your message, and foment a revolution of thought in your target audience. Which is the world.
Re: BD Farming in America
Dear Kristy, et. al., I think what you, Jeff, Allan and others, particularly in Hawaii, Texas, the midwest and out on the west coast, have done as regards making BD info available to the public is quite commendable. Also let us not forget the salubrious efforts of Hugh Courtney, without whom we would have little in terms of availability of the Steiner remedies, to say nothing of availability of literature and presence at conferences auch as ACRES. I do not agree that what Alex Podolinsky has done in Australia is any model to copy, as he has run a rigid and even hidebound program where those who venture outside of his box can be excommunicated. But at least he has created a support system for farmers who want to put BD into practice. The BDGFAA (Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association of Australia) arose in response to the need for more openness than Podolinsky allowed, and it wouldn't do to give Podolinsky full credit for their efforts. They have really done a lot--perhaps more than Alex--to spread BD in Australia. Here in the US it has always been my impression--though for a brief period we did have a national extension agent--that there was no real support for farmers from the central organization. If anything there was a cult atmosphere coming from the central offices and I think it discouraged and turned off people right and left. In my own case I have let my membership in the BD Association lapse after 25 years of trying to pull biodynamics forward against the inertia, resistance and cult atmosphere of the central offices. Maybe Greg is being extreme in his criticism, but when Demeter excommunicated him and prohibited Victor Landa from using the term biodynamic on any products not certified by Demeter I had my fill of wrongheadedness. I'm calling what I do Quantum Agriculture and I only use the term biodynamic in a transitional way. I don't support the BDA or Demeter in any way at this point. Probably I'm one of those Greg refered to who dropped out because they cannot stomach the dogmatism, obstructionism and cultishness any further. I believe I'm pretty thick skinned or I couldn't have taken it as long as I did. The whole fumble of claiming to be the focus of the CSA movement and then doing nothing--even terminating the CSA conferences--was vexation enough and I should have left then. But there have been enough other blunders, including terminating the national extension program, that I should have identified the BDA as non-viable long ago. As far as I'm concerned they are baggage--excess baggage in my case. I can't see any reason for name calling or getting upset or any of that jazz. I have noticed that I'm reaching a wider audience with field broadcasters by calling my work quantum agriculture instead of BD. I suspect BD has a notorious reputation as being inscrutable, cultish and a big turn-off to many farmers. Really most farmers don't understand quantum mechanics either, but I don't seem to face anything like the rejection of my message by couching it in those terms. My lecture room at ACRES was full this time. I seem to be getting further by leaving BD behind. Does that tell you anything? It's still the same remedies, still the same insights into how nature works, I still talk about Rudolf Steiner and the whole nine yards. I just leave the terminology of biodynamic behind. Quite frankly I think it is just fine that Demeter owns the term. Let them have it. As far as I'm concerned it was a big lead anchor around my waist. Best, Hugh Lovel Dear Allan, We have certainly made ourselves available regionally, and offer advice and suggestions for numerous growers each year, plus orgainzing educational events. Jeff Poppen is always also taking in visitors, and holding educational events, writing and doing the TV shows. Allan, you do a huge amount of educational work yourself. JPI has its new farmer advisory program. I think we are wishing for an outdated paradigm when we expect to have some top down organizational figure heads baby us through our movement. This is the era of the conciousness soul, the age of individuality. What ever is lacking in the movement is no one fault but our own. Christy Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: BD Farming in America
I'm really excited about the JPI farmer advisory program. I guess I haven't paid attention to it. can you tell us more about it? Hi Allan, I pasted this from their (Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Biodynamics web site www.jpibiodynamics.org), which is where I heard about it, so I'd like to learn more about it myself. I am glad that they are doing it also. Christy The Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Biodynamics in cooperation with experienced biodynamic farmers is offering the following Advisory Service: Biodynamic Farm Conversion Farmer to Farmer Advisory Service Real farmers, offering practical advice through visits to your farm as well as through seminars dealing with nuts and bolts biodynamic agriculture, rather than armchair imaginations. East Advisor: S. Storch Midwest Advisor: D. Morgan West Advisor: G. Nonini For information and a schedule of our seminars, contact: Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Biodynamics, Inc. PO Box 133 Woolwine, VA 24185 Tel: (276) 930-2463 Fax: (276) 930-2475 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BD Farming in America
Alright - Guru status! at last do I get a certificate - Original Message - From: D S Chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: BD Farming in America Glen: Good to know you're still out there listening and your new guru status has not affected your demeanour. In my experience, Positions of power are sought by people in need of power Of course, why else would they take on thankless jobs and become targets for snipers. Hopefully they will use their power for the benefit of all. I always live in hope of such an occurrence. We have one (too) long serving council member who -after being reelected at the last AGM- stated 'anything he does not want to happen in the association will not happen'. Too bad he did not say it before the election. This same member has been formally asked to resign by fellow council members Then the system is working, the fact that his fellow councillors are aware of his shortcomings reduces his power. There's no way to ensure our own version of perfection in all councillors. The other limitations of the system however perpetuates this negativity for years longer than necessary, and wastes far more opportunities than we can really spare. Are we not all on the same team? Should not all interested parties be involved to their abitlities, as a community, instead of being separated as threats to each other? We need a free and open media to have a half decent form of democracy Very, very true. Some years ago I used get the NZBD Association journal I remember they used to publish your somewhat vitriolic letters attacking the then leadership, is that what you mean? I believe that all executive council minutes should be published. My 'vitriolic letters' contained challenging information some would consider liabilous, however I have never been pursued on such charges, as what I outlined was true. The corruption of the system allowed such things to occur and be perpetuated over many years. After some 6 years on the council, trying to deal with it nicely I was very angry, about such things occurring in a organisation selling integrity. Anger is an emotion I believe is at times very appropriate, and I certainly felt OK to express it then. Every action has an opposite and equal reaction. As a Sun Neptune in Libra being, I have been blessed and challenged, with an ability to express 'the reaction' to circumstance and especially abuse. What I confronted in those letters sure appeared to me as abuse of every ethical and moral code you may like to present. Others know this to be true. The sad thing is the dreages of those days still linger on polluting the organisation to this day. As we have seen on this list - a BD free speech zone- we have developed through our rage and separateness and developed into a more mature forum where these things can be bought forward, discussed and acted upon by those who see fit. So a Association newsletter can act as a forum for discussion amoungst far flung members. Editors control as they wish, so best to not have one, if you want truth. The BDANZ is still far from building any sense of 'community' with the resource they have available. It is still a small club /cult imaging the views of the few. The longer they stay as a exclusive cult, the quicker they become irrelevant. Who needs them? A leadership which empowers its membership will be supported by the membership. No membership support means they - as a whole- did not support your policies and actions. Ah if it was only so! My experience is that if the membership is happy with the way things are going, they become complacent and happy to leave all the work to the few, who in their craze for power do all the work. The resultant apathy is not good for the organisation. And so we see another negative manifestation of the craze for power. How about people brimming with enthusiasm who are resourced by the community for the good of the community providing exciting new avenues of exploration and possibilities. Is this not a 3 fold social order ideal? I have been inspired and broadened these last few years through the wealth of imput coming through this ALIVE stream of enthusiastic 'members' on BDNOW who dare to be heretics and live Biodynamics in their lives as it expresses for them , and then share it. Now how can this ethos been bought into the life of the BD associations? Get rid of the deadwood paranoics and swing all available resources into action! We got a PLANET to save. Its nice to have a few moments to comment cheers GA - Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 6 January 2003 7:47 PM Subject: Re: BD Farming in America David If you want good leadership in a democratic organisation, or country for that matter, it is the responsibility of the membership or citizens to use their rights to ensure that A) You
BD Farming in America
There's no one there to teach them. No leader. No wise man. No wise woman. No body. Vacuous. A vacuum at the top, middle and bottom. Good people leave organizations like these - one way or the other. More often than not, if they try to enlighten them, they are kicked out. Which is good for all humanity because this moves things along the Path of Truth. Greg brought up the above. I've been re-reading A.P. recently. Here is an effective transmitter of Steiner's vision. What is it nowadays? 700 farmers working under A.P. and 2,000,000 acres in EFFECTIVE biodynamic management. There are many BD farmers in Australia and one of the major reasons is that BD WORKS under AP's administration. For me, aside from A.P's obvious insights and gifts, one of the major reasons that BD works in Australia is that AP has set up a program of farm visits and of experienced BD farmers working with inexperienced farmers. He doesn't make the service available, he actually demands that anyone starting in biodynamics work with someone A.P. approves of, someone already getting results with biodynamics. Remember, A.P. first demonstrated that BD WORKS in Australia, and then developed his organization afterwards. We've yet to have anyone really do that here in the US, with the exception of Hugh Lovel (who I'd have to say is probably in the best position to explain why we have no equivalent to AP's success in the US) What I'm getting at is that felt a lot of remorse brought on by the fact that we have no similar organization in the US. Many of the questions that are brought up by new people on the list would be dealt with so much better through a farm visit rather than a reading list or a wisdom thrown into the dark. Barring the development of an organization of cooperative farmers, even simply returning to the 'professional BD farm advisor' system that existed when I got started in biodynamics would be a wonderful thing. -Allan
Re: BD Farming in America
Hi all, Couldn't help but comment on this topic. With my conference only a few weeks to go, I've been busy setting up classes (8 from Feb.to May), 5 farm trips this year, mentoring programs for newbies,and so on. Living at 6200+ feet with extremely alkaline soils(9+) and strong west winds continually; the surest way to discouragement is get a newbie excited and then let them figure it out for them selves. Grant some have done it,but most fail. What I'm doing is making it clear right from the git go that if people want to farm, wether it be bd, organic,permaculture or something else sustainable-they will have a mentor. Success is essential due to our goal of providing our local schools with 75% of their food needs within 5 years, thereby keeping millions of dollars in our local economy. When you have got that kind of incentive, mentoring is more than a whim, it is a must. Pat
Re: BD Farming in America
As usual, Pat, you are both right on! and an inspiration. I wish you could afford the time to mentor us all on community organization. -Allan Hi all, Couldn't help but comment on this topic. With my conference only a few weeks to go, I've been busy setting up classes (8 from Feb.to May), 5 farm trips this year, mentoring programs for newbies,and so on. Living at 6200+ feet with extremely alkaline soils(9+) and strong west winds continually; the surest way to discouragement is get a newbie excited and then let them figure it out for them selves. Grant some have done it,but most fail. What I'm doing is making it clear right from the git go that if people want to farm, wether it be bd, organic,permaculture or something else sustainable-they will have a mentor. Success is essential due to our goal of providing our local schools with 75% of their food needs within 5 years, thereby keeping millions of dollars in our local economy. When you have got that kind of incentive, mentoring is more than a whim, it is a must. Pat
Re: BD Farming in America
What I'm getting at is that felt a lot of remorse brought on by the fact that we have no similar organization in the US. Many of the questions that are brought up by new people on the list would be dealt with so much better through a farm visit rather than a reading list or a wisdom thrown into the dark. Barring the development of an organization of cooperative farmers, even simply returning to the 'professional BD farm advisor' system that existed when I got started in biodynamics would be a wonderful thing. Dear Allan, We have certainly made ourselves available regionally, and offer advice and suggestions for numerous growers each year, plus orgainzing educational events. Jeff Poppen is always also taking in visitors, and holding educational events, writing and doing the TV shows. Allan, you do a huge amount of educational work yourself. JPI has its new farmer advisory program. I think we are wishing for an outdated paradigm when we expect to have some top down organizational figure heads baby us through our movement. This is the era of the conciousness soul, the age of individuality. What ever is lacking in the movement is no one fault but our own. Christy
Re: BD Farming in America
Hi! Allan, Good Post. My introduction to BD was AP with that well known TV special, all those years ago. It still took years until I saw other people actually doing it and eating their produce to make me want to make the move. It was then with their help and encouragement that I set out to learn as much as I could and to make the move, having been non chemical for ten years or more. It has also been Hugh Lovel freely sharing his knowledge with all of us that has been of great encouragement. Gil Oz
Re: BD Farming in America
I think we are wishing for an outdated paradigm when we expect to have some top down organizational figure heads baby us through our movement. This is the era of the conciousness soul, the age of individuality. What ever is lacking in the movement is no one fault but our own. Christy Tell me more about this, Christy. I don't really understand what you are saying in the paragraph above, and, to me, it comes across as uncharacteristically mean spirited. I mean, just what am I to make from that paragraph in the face of, for example, 700 BD farms and 2,000,000 BD ACRES in Australia (within just one BD association!) under exaclty the sort or organization you seem to decry? Where are you drawing this 'the age of individuality' from? The age of broken relationships, broken homes, broken communities, broken clergy and so on. I guess I read too much Wendell Berry, but I thought the idea of 'age of individuality' and 'maximum personal freedom' were concepts sown in us by the system that finds both democracies and 'free people' easier to control than people who can still access the traditional support relationships of husband/wife, home/neighborhood, church/community, city/county and so on. (It's not wasted on anyone how much the New World Order fears countries organized in explicitly top down arrangements, is it?
Re: BD Farming in America
Dear Allan, We have certainly made ourselves available regionally, and offer advice and suggestions for numerous growers each year, plus orgainzing educational events. Jeff Poppen is always also taking in visitors, and holding educational events, writing and doing the TV shows. Allan, you do a huge amount of educational work yourself. JPI has its new farmer advisory program. So much of this is headwork. Talking about how to do it is far removed from digging soil profiles or tasting food on each other's farms. The scariest thing about BD, the thing that keeps a lot of purchased preps in the kitchen drawer is the fear of doing it wrong or the fear that things are not working. How does a person know if they don't have access to someone who really does know? I'm really excited about the JPI farmer advisory program. I guess I haven't paid attention to it. can you tell us more about it? Thanks -Allan
