RE: To Berner or not to Berner?? Or Bernese and Goldens
Hi Mary, A comment in your post intrigues me:-) I have asked this occasionally of PPO's, and the conventional answer is that that goldens have gotten too popular. They generally like everything about the goldens except their popularity. Are they changing from a Golden because they feel the breed has degenerated because of it's popularity or are they changing because they want a less common breed? Rose T.
Re: To Berner or not to Berner?
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Re: To Berner or not to Berner?? Or Bernese and Goldens
Anne wrote: >Hi...I've heard the comparison between Bernese and Goldens, too. (As in, >"If you love Rottweilers, get a Swissy; if you love Goldens, get a >Berner.")Many current Bernese families seem to have started with Goldens... I try to take notes when I talk to PPO's about berners, and I believe this is more than just coincidental - over half the folks I speak with about adding a berner to their family (first time owners) either currently own or have had Goldens... So here's my question - multi-part. Why are Golden owners abandoning their breed in favor of a new breed, and why is that breed the berner? I have asked this occasionally of PPO's, and the conventional answer is that that goldens have gotten too popular. They generally like everything about the goldens except their popularity. So lets hear from the golden to berner people out there - is that why you are switching? In your experience with both breeds, are their temperaments more alike or different? Add anything else relevant you can think of. Thanks for the input. Mary Shaver
Re: To Berner or not to Berner??
On the barking: Molly is delightfully social, and she loves nothing more than when the neighbors two enormous dogs (a tall blond husky and a burly long-haired shepherd mix of 110 pounds or so) come out to play. The Husky snarls and the shepherd starts running along the fence barking his head off. Molly thinks this is a tremendously fine game and begins to run back and forth along the fence, too. She in non-aggressive, yet also non-fearful. In the midst of all that Bow-wow-wow, very occasionally you will hear her dainty "woof." (Nope, not even her famous rooby-roo!!) Even with all that provocation, she only vocalizes when she really has something to say, and that is not very often. This also tells you something about how their nature can be. Molly loves *all* dogs, even those who find her a nuisance by the mere fact of her existence. At the dog day care we have used occasionally I am told that she makes it a point to be friendly with the one dog who doesn't seem to like her. Around children she is great. If the children are at all smaller than she is, she takes it slowly. A neighbor's child was bitten by his own dog last year and is afraid of Molly. Doing exactly the wrong thing, he puts his hand toward her then yanks it away. That would get jaw on the hand in many cases, but Molly just sits and smiles at him. That's our Molly! She may not always get up when you say "come," but you can't beat her for friendliness!!! Martha Hoverson and Molly (Roo-roo, Mom! Thanks for the compliment! Now can I have a cheeseburger?) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Portland, Maine From: Radha Iyengar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kenneth L Babcock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: To Berner or not to Berner?? Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 12:58:04 -0800 (PST) Dear Kenny, I also live in a townhouse and backyard isn't even fenced. We have put up a dog run but that is barely sufficient. My dog, Smokey, is now 11 months (closing in on a year in just a few weeks) and he is pretty well adjusted to the situation. Something important to consider is that you need to be really willing to take your dog out no matter what. I live in New Jersey and this winter has been snowy, cold and terrible. Regardless smokey always, every single day rain or shine gets at least one long walk and 1 hour of off leash play time in a suitable place (often our dog park--which is privately owned so has many fewer of the problems of dog parks discussed previously). It is just important to keep in mind that especially when they are puppies, dogs need a good deal of exercize. Other than that, I think it sounds like BMD is your kind of dog. Smokey is pretty vocal but not a constant barker. He more barks to communicate (He has a log of different "barks" he can make to say all kinds of things). This is a lot of fur, but I find that regular brushing makes the furriness of the house quite tolerable--but I do quite often find fur in my food, etc. Good luck with everything and drop a line so we know how things are going--okay? Radha (and Smokey) Princeton, NJ --- From: "Kenneth L Babcock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: To Berner or not to Berner?? Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:11:09 -0500 Plain Text Attachment [ Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase | Download File ] Greetings to all the expert Owners of Bernese Mt. Dogs! My name is Kenny and I reciently fell in love with the BMD! I am seriously considering, no...no, I mean I'd love to own a BMD!! However I have a few concerns: Shedding/is my home large enough/temperment/barking/and will the breed fit into my lifestyle? I live in a 3 floor townhome with a fenced in back yard (20' X35"), hopefully daily walks and the small yard will please the breed? Last week I dog sitted my sisters 70Lb. Golden Retriever to experience life with a large dog (although 20 or 30Lbs < a Berner). The first two days were difficult in that he was heavly shedding and the hair was a nusance! However I seemed to adjust by day three and just vacummed and brushed daily! By the end of the week I and my family were attached to this beautiful dog. "Bernie" filled our home with a special warmth and love with his laid back temperment. He is missed, as he went home 3 days ago and my children, (3boys, 20,12,9) enjoyed him greatly. I'm told the berners are similar in temperment to the Golden? Finally barking, neighbors have a Sheltie and a besicon that are cronic barkers and is quite unplesant at times! I prefer a controlled to non-existent barker. You may ask, why not get a Golden? I just loved the look and size of the BMD I met a few breeders and found one I am comfertable with. I met her and her BMD'
Re: To Berner or not to Berner??
Dear Kenny, I also live in a townhouse and backyard isn't even fenced. We have put up a dog run but that is barely sufficient. My dog, Smokey, is now 11 months (closing in on a year in just a few weeks) and he is pretty well adjusted to the situation. Something important to consider is that you need to be really willing to take your dog out no matter what. I live in New Jersey and this winter has been snowy, cold and terrible. Regardless smokey always, every single day rain or shine gets at least one long walk and 1 hour of off leash play time in a suitable place (often our dog park--which is privately owned so has many fewer of the problems of dog parks discussed previously). It is just important to keep in mind that especially when they are puppies, dogs need a good deal of exercize. Other than that, I think it sounds like BMD is your kind of dog. Smokey is pretty vocal but not a constant barker. He more barks to communicate (He has a log of different "barks" he can make to say all kinds of things). This is a lot of fur, but I find that regular brushing makes the furriness of the house quite tolerable--but I do quite often find fur in my food, etc. Good luck with everything and drop a line so we know how things are going--okay? Radha (and Smokey) Princeton, NJ --- From: "Kenneth L Babcock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: To Berner or not to Berner?? Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:11:09 -0500 Plain Text Attachment [ Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase | Download File ] Greetings to all the expert Owners of Bernese Mt. Dogs! My name is Kenny and I reciently fell in love with the BMD! I am seriously considering, no...no, I mean I'd love to own a BMD!! However I have a few concerns: Shedding/is my home large enough/temperment/barking/and will the breed fit into my lifestyle? I live in a 3 floor townhome with a fenced in back yard (20' X35"), hopefully daily walks and the small yard will please the breed? Last week I dog sitted my sisters 70Lb. Golden Retriever to experience life with a large dog (although 20 or 30Lbs < a Berner). The first two days were difficult in that he was heavly shedding and the hair was a nusance! However I seemed to adjust by day three and just vacummed and brushed daily! By the end of the week I and my family were attached to this beautiful dog. "Bernie" filled our home with a special warmth and love with his laid back temperment. He is missed, as he went home 3 days ago and my children, (3boys, 20,12,9) enjoyed him greatly. I'm told the berners are similar in temperment to the Golden? Finally barking, neighbors have a Sheltie and a besicon that are cronic barkers and is quite unplesant at times! I prefer a controlled to non-existent barker. You may ask, why not get a Golden? I just loved the look and size of the BMD I met a few breeders and found one I am comfertable with. I met her and her BMD's and loved playing with all of them. I guess I'm seeking advice or reassurance that my home and lifestyle will accomidate a Berner. Thanks for any possible advice! Kenny B. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Re: To Berner or not to Berner??
Dear Kenny, I am a very novice Berner parent so my note will be not nearly as informative as others. The only advice that I can give you is to listen intently to the experts on this List. They are indeed a wealth of knowledge, love and support for Berner admirers and adoptees. Without them I would not have survived, that I am very sure. I have a one year old beloved boy, Stevie, who is the love of my life. Just be prepared to have your heart stolen, and believe me it doesn't happen quietly or subtly, it is just Wham and you are hooked. Along with that though, you may be called upon to make gut-wrenching decisions when your dogs health or well being is concerned. Because of the all encompassing love for these gentle giants, decisions are difficult at best, whether they involve illness, accident or freakish acts of Nature. With that said, I wouldn't trade one second of the unconditional love that is returned to me 100 fold each and every day. I hope, if you make the decision to search for a Berner, that you are as happy with your choice as I am. It is a fabulous ride. Enjoy it. Oh just one more thing, the hair. I send a disclaimer out with everything and anything that leaves my house!!I wish you well. Karen and Stevie NB, Canada - Original Message - From: "Kenneth L Babcock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 11:11 PM Subject: To Berner or not to Berner?? > Greetings to all the expert Owners of Bernese Mt. Dogs! > > My name is Kenny and I reciently fell in love with the BMD! I am > seriously considering, no...no, I mean I'd love to own a BMD!! However I > have a few concerns: > Shedding/is my home large enough/temperment/barking/and will the breed fit > into my lifestyle? > > I live in a 3 floor townhome with a fenced in back yard (20' X35"), > hopefully daily walks and the small yard will please the breed? Last week I > dog sitted my sisters 70Lb. Golden Retriever to experience life with a large > dog (although 20 or 30Lbs < a Berner). The first two days were difficult in > that he was heavly shedding and the hair was a nusance! However I seemed to > adjust by day three and just vacummed and brushed daily! By the end of the > week I and my family were attached to this beautiful dog. "Bernie" filled > our home with a special warmth and love with his laid back temperment. He is > missed, as he went home 3 days ago and my children, (3boys, 20,12,9) enjoyed > him greatly. I'm told the berners are similar in temperment to the Golden? > Finally barking, neighbors have a Sheltie and a besicon that are cronic > barkers and is quite unplesant at times! I prefer a controlled to > non-existent barker. You may ask, why not get a Golden? I just loved the > look and size of the BMD > I met a few breeders and found one I am comfertable with. I met her and her > BMD's and loved playing with all of them. > I guess I'm seeking advice or reassurance that my home and lifestyle will > accomidate a Berner. > > Thanks for any possible advice! > > Kenny B. > >
Re: To Berner or not to Berner??
-- - Original Message - From: "Kenneth L Babcock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Shedding/ Get a new vacum. Maybe two. >is my home large enough/ Size is less of an issue than clutter (think of that tail--it is a coffee table sweeper). And a bored Berner is a destructive dog; I am not walking my crew right now because one of my dogs has a significant lameness and she gets way too whipped up if I take the others out, which aggrevates her problem. In the last two weeks Mic the Berner boy has eaten my tax papers, trashed a pillow, dismembered an innocent baggie all over the living room floor, and started picking fights with his sister Cassie the Rescue Pyr. I am doing short obedience routines with him, and playing strenuous games like tug of war, and he has acess 24/7 to the fenced yard . . . but he is highly active and energetic and he wants MORE activity. >temperment/ Varies quite a lot. Shyness and sharp-shyness (which leads to fear aggression) is more common in this breed than a casual contact level person might think; we also have some dogs which harken back to the farmyard guardian days who exhibit some territorial aggression. This might not be the most common temperment in this breed, but it is a substantial sub-set and you should exercise caution when finding the right breeder for you. Make sure you meet plenty of relatives and that they are the temperment you want. >barking/ Mic is not the biggest barker in my house (I have Great Pyrenees for that!) but what he (and many other Berners) will do is wait until you are trying to pay attention to some task or program and then bark at you for attention. We practice techniques like walking away, refusing to look at him, and completely ignoring him when he does this sort of thing and it helps, but my g** he is persistent. >I'm told the berners are similar in temperment to the Golden? I think Goldies in general are a little softer and easier in the personality department. Obviously, temperments vary from dog to dog. However, something about the Working breeds makes them a little harder to live with if they do not have a job to do. I know I can't slack off with giving Mic things to do for me or there is simply no living with him. Think, Type A person. There are other Berners, like my friend Kathy's Max, who will tolerate anything and everything and be extremely mellow. Again, meet the family and that will help; Mic is not very like his mother, auntie and older sibling that I met--he is like a rather difficult grandparent. I think Berners are a little more needy than Goldies. They really want to be all over their people, all the time. You have not talked about health at all. That is a *very* important consideration, especially given the amount of cancer in this breed. You should make sure your breeder does some sort of hip and elbow certification for displaysia, and it should be good or excellent in at least one, preferably both, parents. She should be having CERF for the eyes. I strongly recommend heart checks and also a check for Von Willibrand's disease. She should be able to tell you what she is trying to accomplish with her litter. She should be active in the National or local club. She should have someone other than herself assessing the quality of her dogs to avoid kennel blindness, preferably by showing the dogs to their Championships in conformation and perhaps also some sort of performance, such as drafting or obedience. Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.458 / Virus Database: 257 - Release Date: 2/24/2003
Re: To Berner or not to Berner??
Hi...I've heard the comparison between Bernese and Goldens, too. (As in, "If you love Rottweilers, get a Swissy; if you love Goldens, get a Berner.")Many current Bernese families seem to have started with Goldens... The temperament issues have been discussed many times on the list. You should know, however, that if shedding is an issue, this may not be the breed for you. Although shedding is somewhat seasonal, you have to be willing to adapt to having lots of fur around. With a two-year-old Bernese and an almost-10-month old Berner pup who is just starting to blow her baby coat, vacuuming is a daily thing for the most part. It's hard to be fastidious with that much black fur around! And you must get used to your food being seasoned with fur, as well. It's next to impossible to get food to the table without some floating up and into it! In my experience, barking is not a big issue. Nuisance barking does not seem to be a Bernese trait. They bark to announce visitors and passersby, in watchdog fashion. More important to focus on the possible health issues and related commitments, etc.,associated with the breed when making your choice, I think. Anne Cranford, NJ with Maddie and Titan
Re: To Berner or not to Berner??
In a message dated 2/28/2003 10:10:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I guess I'm seeking advice or reassurance that my home and lifestyle will > accomidate a Berner. Hi Kenny, I think Liz answered many of your specific questions very well so I'll just offer a bit of the 'big picture'. Adding a Bernese to your home and family WILL have a big impact on your home and family . A large part of that impact is wonderful and the reason some of us can't imagine life without a Berner on our feet. Over time, a Bernese will connect with you and your family in a way that defies description. It will bring much joy and satisfaction. It will also mean black fur in the butter dish and ice cubes, stains on the carpet where puppy had an accident or the adult dog got sick, a chewed rug-cabinet-prized antique chair leg...it's tough to be house proud when you own a Bernese. It will require a significant committment of your time and energy to train, socialize, and exercise the dog throughout the years...not just the first 6 months. Some dogs will develop chronic and painful diseases requiring ongoing treatment and limiting their ability to participate in activities. And finally, living with and loving a Bernese means suffering the eventual loss of the dog...sometimes sooner, sometimes later. Because the relationship they build with you is so deep... some people never heal from this loss and never get another Berner. So ask as many questions as come to mind and read the excellent information available on line. Websites for the BMDCA, Pat Long, Berner.org, IMBDC-Panda, are all loaded with factual and practical information. Then consider it all within the framework of the larger picture above and you'll be in a good position to make the right decision for you and your family. -Sherri Venditti
Re: To Berner or not to Berner??
- Original Message - >Shedding/is my home large enough/temperment/barking/and will the breed fit into my lifestyle? Kenny -- of COURSE you'd love to have a BMD!!! Who in their right mind wouldn't. There. Now that that's out of the way... 1.) Shedding - yes! Be prepared. We brush our dogs almost every day, but I'll still see Berner "babies" rolling across the floor sometimes. And get used to hair in everything, and I mean EVERYTHING! 2.) We are on BMD #2. We now have a house with a good-sized yard, but that was not the case with BMD #1. Part of the time that we had him (120lb intact male), we lived in a duplex apartment (1 floor, 916 sq ft) with a small back yard (60' long but only 6' wide at one end and 28' wide at the other). Actually, we had 2 dogs in that yard/home. We walked/ran with them almost daily, and they had free access to yard & apartment during good weather when we could leave the door open. 3.) Temperment - varies just like with people, but generally good. Both our boys have been a bit head-strong, but they were both rescues that did not have consistent training & discipline. Both got to be pretty laid-back with time. 4.) Barking - neither of our boys barked much at all. In fact, even when the annoying neighbor dogs bark, ours rarely do. We also are quite clear that barking for "no reason" is unacceptable. Training goes a long way ;-) 5.) Lifestyle - I think you'll find that the "lifestyles of the berner-ly" are quite varied. I think BMDs, if they get love & attention & discipline, can fit into most lifestyles. Just don't get a BMD as a "trophy" and expect it to sit quietly until you are ready to pay attention to it - they need attention from you. Other things... both our boys have LOVED children. They would sit/stand very quietly while neighbor kids come up to pet them. Best wishes in your pursuit of a BMD. I have nothing to back this up scientifically, just my personal opinion, but I think boys are more even tempered and easier to get along with than girls (dogs, cats, horses, sometimes even people!) Let us all know what you decide. Liz Steinweg & The Crew Blue Moon's Baloo Berry Torte "Baloo" Bobby Sox (husky-x), Figaro (20+ lb Forest Cat) Rio & Sahara (the "Rat Cats") and in loving memory of my 1st BMD - Toby (6/29/97 - 6/30/00 lost to MH) Colorado Springs CO http://www.csbservices.com/personal/personal.htm
To Berner or not to Berner??
Greetings to all the expert Owners of Bernese Mt. Dogs! My name is Kenny and I reciently fell in love with the BMD! I am seriously considering, no...no, I mean I'd love to own a BMD!! However I have a few concerns: Shedding/is my home large enough/temperment/barking/and will the breed fit into my lifestyle? I live in a 3 floor townhome with a fenced in back yard (20' X35"), hopefully daily walks and the small yard will please the breed? Last week I dog sitted my sisters 70Lb. Golden Retriever to experience life with a large dog (although 20 or 30Lbs < a Berner). The first two days were difficult in that he was heavly shedding and the hair was a nusance! However I seemed to adjust by day three and just vacummed and brushed daily! By the end of the week I and my family were attached to this beautiful dog. "Bernie" filled our home with a special warmth and love with his laid back temperment. He is missed, as he went home 3 days ago and my children, (3boys, 20,12,9) enjoyed him greatly. I'm told the berners are similar in temperment to the Golden? Finally barking, neighbors have a Sheltie and a besicon that are cronic barkers and is quite unplesant at times! I prefer a controlled to non-existent barker. You may ask, why not get a Golden? I just loved the look and size of the BMD I met a few breeders and found one I am comfertable with. I met her and her BMD's and loved playing with all of them. I guess I'm seeking advice or reassurance that my home and lifestyle will accomidate a Berner. Thanks for any possible advice! Kenny B.
