Re: Consequences of off-list attacks, spam, etc.? (was RE: Official Statement)
At 06:43 PM 12/10/02 -0800, Nick Arnett wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of J. van Baardwijk Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 11:46 AM ... I must disagree with this. Off-list offenses are a private matter between the sender and the recipient, and therefore it is for the recipient (and only the recipient) to decide how to deal with it (kill-filing, flaming back, filing an abuse report with the offender's ISP). As an off-list offense by definition does not take place on-list, it is not for the listowners or the community as a whole to punish the offender. This is a difficult area. The list managers certainly can't become the Internet Police for anybody who participates in the list. On the other hand, if list members respond to list messages with off-line personal attacks or spam, is that something that should lead to restrictions? Or is it between them (and their ISPs, presumably) at that point? Perhaps it should be perfectly acceptable to forward spam or personal attacks, sent off-list but related to the list, to the list managers for publication on the list. Thus, there'd be a double-check that it's really an offense, but takes away the sender's ability to privately hassle list members over list-related things. Goodness, this is complicated. I think I have a simpler solution: Don't send anything (either on-list or off-list) that you would find offensive if it were directed towards you. GSV Luke 6:31 (Golden Rule class) --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Consequences of off-list attacks, spam, etc.? (was RE: OfficialStatement)
At 10:16 PM 12/10/02 -0800, Nick Arnett wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Deborah Harrell Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 9:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Consequences of off-list attacks, spam, etc.? (was RE: OfficialStatement) --- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippage Goodness, this is complicated. Well, according to what He said to the Libertarians, that might be a good thing, a sign of growing maturity - like teenage acne! :) I nominate this for Most Depressing Analogy of 2002. At least the year is almost over . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Your Japanese Name
In a message dated 12/11/2002 1:15:59 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now, taste my steel, pawn of Apu! Why would the manager of the Quickie Mart need pawns? Maybe it was supposed to read prawns, and he was making shish kabob? Er, for his customers, of course. William Taylor -- Apu survives the collapse of the universe. Thank you, create again. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: DIY bathroom troubles, Re: Fwd: Religion, the good side
Was it on this list awhile back (at least back while we were on the Cornell server) that we had the discussion about always being careful to discharge the flyback capacitor before doing any work on a TV set or computer monitor (and at least one person¹ confessed to have learned that lesson the hard way . . . )? _ ¹Not me. I learned how to do it when I was tasked with writing a computer maintenance manual many years ago, and so far have never forgotten to do so before sticking my finger in that little hole on the side of the CRT (or anywhere else inside the set for that matter) . . . --Ronn! :) waves That was me, very first day on the job as a TV repair person. We were picking up a big tube, at least 29 INCH* and my finger slipped right into the hole. WHAM! The person I was working with didn't know about the voltage either, he just stood there and laughed. I was showed by an older electrician how to play with high voltage. I've had 480 dancing on my finger tips. I was with him unhooking a house from the outside electric, which someone turned on. He twisted his ankle falling from the ladder after getting shocked but was otherwise okay. We took a break and he went back at it. Kevin T. * Sorry Alberto ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court
From: Russell Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Fool wrote: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/10/1039379819086.html Gutnick wins right to have Web libel case heard in Vic Canberra December 10 2002 Why is having a defamation case heard in the jurisdiction of the distribution and consumption of the material, where it coincides with the alledged victim's domicile striking down free speech? This is by far one of the single biggest attacks on freedom of speech that has ever been carried out. Any American who exercises their first amendment rights is now subject to Australian law. This sets Australian law higher than even the U.S. constitution, and makes all Americans slaves to the censorship laws the predominate in Australia. Anything I say online may now be prosecuted in Australia under Australian law. I doubt it will be much longer before all countries have declared their laws sovereign over the U.S. constitution. How long will it be before Saudi Arabia tries to prosecute me for saying 'Mohammed was a pedophile who was inspired with his lips around Satans penis'? It still has to go to court, Dow Jones is a professional publishing house, and a story about Gutnick could reasonably expected to be targeted to include an Australian audience... Has there ever been free speech in publishing? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Starship Trooper
Rob wrote: This is what I think of when I hear Starship Trooper [Actual song lyrics by YES snipped] I never much liked the version on the Yes album, I think the one from Yessongs is much superior. The first one completely ignores the concept of personal responsibility... Just kidding :-) I had always thought the song was ok, but then I heard it in concert during the 9012-Live tour at an outdoor amphitheater her in KC that used to be called Sandstone (the name changed last year to the name of some corporate sponsor that I can't remember, but everyone pretty much ignores that name and still calls it Sandstone). It had been overcast for three days before the concert. A few songs before Starship Trooper, it had started to sprinkle, and then to rain pretty hard. And then *during* Starship Trooper, the rain trailed off to nothing within the first minute or so, and as the song went on, the wind picked up, the clouds suddenly parted, and we had a clear view of the stars in at least half of the sky by the time it ended. That song has had a special place in my heart ever since. Reggie Bautista The Beauty of the Moment Maru _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Your Japanese Name
Adam wrote: I am Ademu ku ripusukonbu Now, taste my steel, pawn of Apu! Ronn! replied: Why would the manager of the Quickie Mart need pawns? Besides, Isn't He Indian? Maru Why *wouldn't* someone from India need pawns? Wasn't chess invented in India? Reggie Bautista I read it on the internet, so it must be true Maru :-) _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Starship Trooper
To heck with waiting to find the book for the quote :-) Here's the reply I mentioned earlier. Dan wrote: He teaches that only one understanding of personal responsibility exists. That taking care of your own and taking orders is the definition of responsibility. Look at the class the lead character was in at the beginning, where there are scientific proofs that force as the first and virtually only moral option. I cannot imagine the Veteran's Democracy he evisions not falling into a neo-Facism because it is a world where questioning orders is treasonous. If you look through the wealth of his books, he tends to has a fair amount of shoot first and ask questions later morality, and not much of a believer in the nicities of civilization. I didn't say the ideas in the book were all good :-) But the ideas of personal responsibility and shame for wrong-doing are certainly needed in the world today, even if I think they should be handled differently than Heinlein handles them. My wife is a gradeschool music teacher. She regularly sees kids who have done something bad enough to get their parent(s) called, and these kids are told that their parent(s) are coming to the school and they don't care. The parent(s) tell them that they are in *big* trouble, and the kids don't care. They don't take responsibility for what they did, they don't feel any shame for their wrongdoing, and they don't care what type of punishment their parent(s) plan to apply. And according to some of the teachers that have been in the district for a long time (20 years), it gets worse every year. This was the type of situation Heinlein was predicting (and was probably already starting to see at the time he wrote the book) and he simply put forth his opinion on how to take care of that situation. I agree with his opinion that lack of personal responsibility, lack of shame and even, so some extent, lack of fear of punishment are bad things, although I don't necessarily agree with all of his suggestions for dealing with those problems. But still, getting back to my original point, these issues, the real heart of the story, were only touched on as parody or were completely ignored in the movie. I continued: Starship Troopers is really a book about taking responsibility for your actions, both individually and corporately [snip] And Rico's story is one of starting with no concept of responsibility, and then learning all about it and eventually becoming a very responsible person. That's why the ending of the book is ultimately satisfying. And Dan said: IMHO, it presents a cartoon version of a moral dillema. I would argue that the Ender series has a much better handle on the question. Yes, the fact that his bugs didn't know that the Earth was sentinent was sorta an easy out, but he still covered the moral difficulty a lot better than Heinlein. To put it sucinctly: Heinlein assumed it was an easy question OSC didn't. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. I agree that the Ender series presents a more realistic moral issue in regard to the bugs, but the Heinlein story wasn't really about the war with the bugs. The war was the MacGuffin that RAH used to allow him to discuss responsibility. And as I stated above, I agree with the issues of the importance of personal responsibility etc., but not necessarily with RAH's answers about how to handle those issues. The movie had nothing whatsoever to do with responsibility. The movie was about a guy who started with no personal responsibility and ended with none. Well, he seemed to accept the idea of taking orders and taking care of one's own at the end of the movie. I have to admit, I don't remember the end too clearly, as I was pretty disapointed by the stuff earlier in the movie and was not paying very close attention by that point. Since I really *don't* remember much of the end, I'll cede this point to you, at least provisionally :-) Reggie Bautista _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Your Japanese Name
From: Ronn! Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Now, taste my steel, pawn of Apu! Why would the manager of the Quickie Mart need pawns? He might like prawns. Would you like a nice tasty prawn-on-a-stick with your slurpee? - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Dr. Brin's LPNC keynote speech
Reggie asked... Harureruru... Isn't that a city in Hawaii? or else it's a fierce sneeze.. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: fibre for the masses
-Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Verzonden: dinsdag 10 december 2002 20:50 Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Onderwerp: Re: fibre for the masses Yea, well they probably give you a shitty connection. Heck, you can get that even if they *don't* run the cables through the sewers. ;) And even with a _good_ connection, still sometimes all you can find on-line is crªp . . . And even with an expensive broadband connection, the speed is regularly such that I often wonder if they have the cables running through the shit, or the shit through the cables... GRIN Jeroen I call it e-shit van Baardwijk LEGAL NOTICE: By replying to this message, you understand and accept that your replies (both on-list and off-list) may be published on-line and in any other form, and that I cannot and shall not be held responsible for any negative consequences (monetary and otherwise) this may have for you. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court
on 11/12/02 12:54 pm, The Fool at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Russell Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Fool wrote: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/10/1039379819086.html Gutnick wins right to have Web libel case heard in Vic Canberra December 10 2002 Why is having a defamation case heard in the jurisdiction of the distribution and consumption of the material, where it coincides with the alledged victim's domicile striking down free speech? This is by far one of the single biggest attacks on freedom of speech that has ever been carried out. Any American who exercises their first amendment rights is now subject to Australian law. This sets Australian law higher than even the U.S. constitution, and makes all Americans slaves to the censorship laws the predominate in Australia. I doubt anybody is going to be extradited from the USA to Australia for a defamation case. I doubt any damages awarded by an Australian court are going to be enforceable in the USA. So it doesn't make any difference to American individuals (except that if they defame people in country X, they might be wise not to travel to country X in future.) It only matters for international companies who have branches and assets in country X. It still has to go to court, Dow Jones is a professional publishing house, and a story about Gutnick could reasonably expected to be targeted to include an Australian audience... Has there ever been free speech in publishing? No. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Putting an infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of keyboards will _not_ result in the greatest work of all time. Just look at Windows. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Server back
-Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Nick Arnett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Verzonden: woensdag 11 december 2002 3:38 Aan: Brin-L@Mccmedia. Com Onderwerp: Server back And since it's a painfully slow machine (a Pentium 266 MHz, I was somewhat surprised to see), and I have a PII motherboard here, I'm thinking I should finally upgrade the darn thing I have an old PC (Pentium 200 MHz, 80 MB RAM) that is dire need of retirement. Once I have a new one, I want to upgrade the old one (new processor, perhaps extra memory) and turn it into a webserver. What would you recommend in terms of processor, memory, operating system and other software? The webserver will be build primarily just to get familiar with setting up such a server, and will otherwise only be used to host my websites, and perhaps for experimenting with running a mailing list on it. What would you recommend in terms of processor, memory and operating system? Jeroen Architectus Websiticum van Baardwijk LEGAL NOTICE: By replying to this message, you understand and accept that your replies (both on-list and off-list) may be published on-line and in any other form, and that I cannot and shall not be held responsible for any negative consequences (monetary and otherwise) this may have for you. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court
Dan Minette wrote: What are the odds on the New York Times winning their case? Slim and None, and Slim is heading out the door. nitpick It's not the NYT, it's Dow Jones, publisher of the Wall Street Journal and Barron's. Totally different animals. /nitpick Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Hayman Fire
Deborah Harrell wrote: Prairie fire that would outrace a horse Maru (from another 'Little House' book) Which one? I'm trying to remember, and about all I *can* remember is something about Pa plowing a firebreak around the house, and after the fire swept through, the house being on a little island in a sea of char Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: DIY bathroom troubles, Re: Fwd: Religion, the good side
Kevin Tarr wrote: I was showed by an older electrician how to play with high voltage. I've had 480 dancing on my finger tips. I was with him unhooking a house from the outside electric, which someone turned on. He twisted his ankle falling from the ladder after getting shocked but was otherwise okay. We took a break and he went back at it. How high was he when he fell? And how many people get hurt every year because someone comes along and turns on the power they've shut off so they can work *safely*? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Osama's letter to America
At 22:58 2002-12-08 +1100, you wrote: Ronn! Blankenship wrote: Just imagine that the only faces you ever get to see are those of bearded men . . . Hey, what's wrong with bearded men??? I resemble that remark. Anyway, why would you want to see bearded women?? Regards, Ray. And I'd resent it if it was serious. Of course, Ray can look like anything he likes, including remarks. I look like just about every bearded guy out there: Grizzly Adams, Hagrid, etc. Jean-Louis :O) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Server back
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:48 AM ... I have an old PC (Pentium 200 MHz, 80 MB RAM) that is dire need of retirement. Once I have a new one, I want to upgrade the old one (new processor, perhaps extra memory) and turn it into a webserver. What would you recommend in terms of processor, memory, operating system and other software? The webserver will be build primarily just to get familiar with setting up such a server, and will otherwise only be used to host my websites, and perhaps for experimenting with running a mailing list on it. What would you recommend in terms of processor, memory and operating system? That machine as it is will run Linux/Apache quite well unless you're expecting a heavy load. I couldn't say exactly how many concurrent users it would support, but I'd imagine 8-10, comfortably. And that's a fair bit for a personal server. So I'd start with it as-is, watch the peak load levels, then consider upgrading. It's amazing how well a slow machine performs when you abandon Windows and use Linux, especially Linux in text mode. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Dr. Brin's LPNC keynote speech
Debbie wrote: Deborafu Harureruru Reggie Bautista wrote: Harureruru... Isn't that a city in Hawaii? That's how Scooby Doo would pronounce the name of their capital city. ;-) __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court
- Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BRIN-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:41 AM Subject: Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court on 11/12/02 12:54 pm, The Fool at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has there ever been free speech in publishing? No. Why doesn't the Pentagon Paper ruling count as free speech for publishing? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court
- Original Message - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court Dan Minette wrote: What are the odds on the New York Times winning their case? Slim and None, and Slim is heading out the door. nitpick It's not the NYT, it's Dow Jones, publisher of the Wall Street Journal and Barron's. Totally different animals. nitpick right back I was referring to a hypothetical article about the Saudi royal family. The NYT hypothetically published that article. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court
[EMAIL PROTECTED]01df01c2a0d0$86d457e0$[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 028101c2a13d$8ef9ae80$[EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b2 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Discussions of the writings of science fiction/futurist authors David Brin and Gregory Benford. brin-l.mccmedia.com List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=subscribe List-Unsubscribe: http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://www.mccmedia.com/pipermail/brin-l List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=help Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dan Minette wrote: nitpick right back I was referring to a hypothetical article about the Saudi royal family. The NYT hypothetically published that article. :-) Did they at least win a hypothetical Pulitzer? ;-) __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court
on 11/12/02 5:43 pm, Dan Minette at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BRIN-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:41 AM Subject: Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court on 11/12/02 12:54 pm, The Fool at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has there ever been free speech in publishing? No. Why doesn't the Pentagon Paper ruling count as free speech for publishing? That would be an instance of free speech. I took the rhetorical question to mean 'there never been free speech in publishing generally', to which specific instances of free speech are not a counterexample. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Putting an infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of keyboards will _not_ result in the greatest work of all time. Just look at Windows. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court
- Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BRIN-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court on 11/12/02 5:43 pm, Dan Minette at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BRIN-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:41 AM Subject: Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court on 11/12/02 12:54 pm, The Fool at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has there ever been free speech in publishing? No. Why doesn't the Pentagon Paper ruling count as free speech for publishing? That would be an instance of free speech. I took the rhetorical question to mean 'there never been free speech in publishing generally', to which specific instances of free speech are not a counterexample. OK, I guess you are technically correct. There is no free speech in publishing; just freedom of the press as given in the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. What was the reason for making this distinction? I'm still not clear why the slightly sloppy reference to freedom of the press as freedom of speech in publishing needs to be corrected in quite that manner. Why not say technically that's freedom of the press and leave it at that? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court
From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Putting an infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of keyboards will _not_ result in the greatest work of all time. Just look at Windows. I'd say that says more about M$Windows programmers than it does about monkeys. Totally different animal. :-) /mini rant/ Although I have to say that I completely *loathe* OS X. Installed 'Jaguar' on my G4 dual processor at work along with a host of newly X-compliant apps and have never, ever seen so many application crashes. Adobe, Apple, AOL, Claris, Microsoft, Intuit... it's no longer limited to a single manufacturer or to a single behavior. Arrgh! My WinXP machine at home never crashes this much and it's put through much more demanding paces than this machine. /mini rant/ Next step is to reinitialize the hard drive, install new partitions and start from scratch. :-( Jon Who Needs It? Maru _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Internet Free Speech struck down by Australian court
The Fool wrote: This is by far one of the single biggest attacks on freedom of speech that has ever been carried out. Any American who exercises their first amendment rights is now subject to Australian law. This sets Australian law higher than even the U.S. constitution, and makes all Americans slaves to the censorship laws the predominate in Australia. Anything I say online may now be prosecuted in Australia under Australian law. I doubt it will be much longer before all countries have declared their laws sovereign over the U.S. constitution. How long will it be before Saudi Arabia tries to prosecute me for saying 'Mohammed was a pedophile who was inspired with his lips around Satans penis'? What about posession of child pornography? Do you think that it should be given the same consideration? I understand that it's a different situation, but you can be prosecuted in this country (and entirely, completely rightly so) for possessing pornographic materials that were neither manufactured by you or in your country of origin. There are obviously differences. Jon _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [ir]rational answer question
Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: speak ;D ), but if multiplying two negative numbers is _supposed_ to make a positive, the square root of a negative number 'should not be' possible. That's why they're called imaginary numbers! Imaginary or not, though, they're quite useful... It's funny, because in all my math classes through Calculus II or Calc III in college, I thought that imaginary/complex numbers were the most rediculous, worthless things I'd ever seen, an abstract concept with no real-world use or value. And whenever I had to deal with them, I loudly proclaimed that. Then I started my sophomore year Circuit Analysis courses, and suddenly I discovered that complex numbers were *incredibly* useful and real-world applicable once you get involved with AC circuitry, amongst many other things. Heh - as a friend of mine used to say, my crystal ball apparently is a bit cloudy. Burion Deri ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: brin: Turing machine for Conways life
http://www.rendell.uk.co/gol/tm.htm Nifty. Nifty indeed! Thanks. But I see Conway's Game of Life as intrinsically limited. The version I hypothesize about in GLORY SEASON would be more complex at the individual cell level, in order to allow fewer cells to do much more. Cool though! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Keening Linux
At 19:23 10-12-2002 -0800, Nick Arnett wrote: The only thing I see in the logs that seem unusual are a bunch of things from identd, like this: Dec 10 15:45:20 www identd[4623]: request_thread: read(9, ..., 1023) failed: Connection reset by peer Looking into this, I don't see that it's a reason for the machine to get all excited or anything. I swear I had nothing to do with that! :-) Jeroen Denial phase van Baardwijk LEGAL NOTICE: By replying to this message, you understand and accept that your replies (both on-list and off-list) may be published on-line and in any other form, and that I cannot and shall not be held responsible for any negative consequences (monetary and otherwise) this may have for you. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Why did the Chicken cross the road?
At 23:21 10-12-2002 -0500, William Taylor wrote: The world's very first chicken joke. snip Later, it was time for battle, and the priest were bringing up the pot of paint that they had prepared for battle. Suddenly, one of the priests shrieked and dropped the pot. The high priest in utter disbelief looked down at the pot and said, All right, which one of you chickens crossed the woad? Note to self: do not, I repeat: do not read William's messages when you just took a sip of coffee and haven't swallowed it yet. Your laptop will appreciate it. GRIN Jeroen Coffee stains on laptop delenda est van Baardwijk LEGAL NOTICE: By replying to this message, you understand and accept that your replies (both on-list and off-list) may be published on-line and in any other form, and that I cannot and shall not be held responsible for any negative consequences (monetary and otherwise) this may have for you. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Starship Trooper
- Original Message - From: Reggie Bautista [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:43 AM Subject: Re: Starship Trooper Rob wrote: This is what I think of when I hear Starship Trooper [Actual song lyrics by YES snipped] I never much liked the version on the Yes album, I think the one from Yessongs is much superior. I agree. Most of the versions on Yessongs blow away the studio versions. ST was never one of my favorite songs, I liked it a lot, but there were others I liked better. But there was one concert in '78 where the band was playing so perfectly, and everything was just so right, that I felt that I was hearing the most beautiful piece of music imaginable and felt myself uplifted, spirit and soul, to a place (spititual mental whatever) that was pure and purely delightful. I suppose it was some sort of transcendent experience, it was great, I wish it would happen again, but I'm not willing to give myself over to silly theories of how such things occur in order to find it. The first one completely ignores the concept of personal responsibility... Just kidding :-) I had always thought the song was ok, but then I heard it in concert during the 9012-Live tour at an outdoor amphitheater her in KC that used to be called Sandstone (the name changed last year to the name of some corporate sponsor that I can't remember, but everyone pretty much ignores that name and still calls it Sandstone). It had been overcast for three days before the concert. A few songs before Starship Trooper, it had started to sprinkle, and then to rain pretty hard. And then *during* Starship Trooper, the rain trailed off to nothing within the first minute or so, and as the song went on, the wind picked up, the clouds suddenly parted, and we had a clear view of the stars in at least half of the sky by the time it ended. That song has had a special place in my heart ever since. Reggie Bautista The Beauty of the Moment Maru Either I've heard stories about that particular concert many many times, or this has happened at Yes concerts many many times. This is a topic that comes up on alt.music.yes sometimes. xponent Not A Friend To Yes Religioun Types Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: DIY bathroom troubles, Re: Fwd: Religion, the good side
Kevin Tarr wrote: at least 29 INCH* * Sorry Alberto I always find it amusing that we measure our TV screens in cm and our computer screens in inches. I know why of course (we still have 3½ and 5¼ inch drive bays as well), but it does seem silly. Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: inches are evil, why they must be eradicated
- Original Message - From: Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:02 PM Subject: inches are evil, why they must be eradicated Russell Chapman wrote: I always find it amusing that we measure our TV screens in cm (...) Australia must be a blessed land. Here in Brazil they sell TVs in inches (1 inch = 2 cm). Is there any job opportunity for a starship pilot and an intense care pediatrician over there? Uh...1 inch is not equal to 2 centimeters. Very rough approximation maybe. xponent Non Metric Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
inches are evil, why they must be eradicated
Russell Chapman wrote: I always find it amusing that we measure our TV screens in cm (...) Australia must be a blessed land. Here in Brazil they sell TVs in inches (1 inch = 2 cm). Is there any job opportunity for a starship pilot and an intense care pediatrician over there? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: inches are evil, why they must be eradicated
On Wed, Dec 11, 2002 at 06:34:36PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: From: Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Australia must be a blessed land. Here in Brazil they sell TVs in inches (1 inch = 2 cm). Is there any job opportunity for a starship pilot and an intense care pediatrician over there? Uh...1 inch is not equal to 2 centimeters. Very rough approximation maybe. Not even a good approximation, since 1inch = 2.54cm (exactly), to round to one digit it would be approximately 3cm. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: DIY bathroom troubles, Re: Fwd: Religion, the good side
- Original Message - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:07 AM Subject: Re: DIY bathroom troubles, Re: Fwd: Religion, the good side Kevin Tarr wrote: I was showed by an older electrician how to play with high voltage. I've had 480 dancing on my finger tips. I was with him unhooking a house from the outside electric, which someone turned on. He twisted his ankle falling from the ladder after getting shocked but was otherwise okay. We took a break and he went back at it. How high was he when he fell? And how many people get hurt every year because someone comes along and turns on the power they've shut off so they can work *safely*? Better question is how many are killed. xponent I Speak To You Through Electrical Language Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Dr. Brin's LPNC keynote speech
- Original Message - From: Steve Sloan II [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:18 AM Subject: Re: Dr. Brin's LPNC keynote speech Debbie wrote: Deborafu Harureruru Reggie Bautista wrote: Harureruru... Isn't that a city in Hawaii? That's how Scooby Doo would pronounce the name of their capital city. ;-) Scooby Doo is Japanese??? xponent Deliberate Confusion Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: inches are evil, why they must be eradicated
Erik Reuter wrote: On Wed, Dec 11, 2002 at 06:34:36PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: From: Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Australia must be a blessed land. Here in Brazil they sell TVs in inches (1 inch = 2 cm). Is there any job opportunity for a starship pilot and an intense care pediatrician over there? Uh...1 inch is not equal to 2 centimeters. Very rough approximation maybe. Not even a good approximation, since 1inch = 2.54cm (exactly), to round to one digit it would be approximately 3cm. But 2 inches = 5 cm is a half-decent approximation (and one I use now and again, most notably interchanging 4 inches / 10 cm). The other approximation I use for distance is 1 mile = 1.6 km, and I know *that's* not exact. (I think it's more like 1 mile = 1.609 km.) And my speedometer has a digital readout and can toggle between miles and kilometers, and 120 kph is approximately 74 mph. (And I can tell you who *not* to try to follow if you don't want to speed by 15 kph or so -- it's the guy I was following when I originally made that determination.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
U.S. Missile Intercept Test Fails
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39735-2002Dec11.html A Raytheon Corp.-built kill vehicle designed to destroy incoming warheads failed to separate from its booster on Wednesday in a test over the Pacific, setting back a multibillion-dollar system under development to shield against ballistic missiles from countries such as Iraq, Iran and North Korea. We do not have an intercept, said Air Force Lt. Col. Rick Lehner of the Pentagon's Missile Defense Agency. He said it was frustrating and disappointing that a glitch that had little to do with advanced missile technology had doomed the eighth, $100 million, flight test of a key part of a planned U.S. layered defense against ballistic missiles. Five of the flight tests have succeeded in shooting down the target vehicle launched from California's Vandenberg Air Force base. Wednesday's flight was the third failure, including a July 8, 2000, test in which Raytheon's so-called Exo-Atmospheric Kill Vehicle also failed to separate from its booster, in that case because of an electronic module failure. Separating boosters from their payloads is something the United States has been doing successfully for some 50 years, Lehner said. A spokesman for Raytheon, Dave Shea, said the company had confidence in its design. High technology seemed an unlikely culprit, he said, as it might have been had the device separated on schedule and yet missed its target in space. The kill vehicle weighs about 120 pounds. Equipped with two infrared sensors and a visible sensor, it packs a small propulsion system meant to zero in on its target, bypassing decoys expected to accompany any incoming warhead. 'HIT TO KILL' The botched hit to kill intercept was meant to demonstrate that, as in previous tests, a warhead tipped with a weapon of mass destruction -- nuclear, chemical or biological -- would be totally destroyed and neutralized in a collision with the kill vehicle. Lehner said the test had begun without a hitch with the launching of a modified Minuteman intercontinental ballistic missile from Vandenberg, on the central California coast. Also launched without incident was the interceptor. It was fired from 4,800 miles away on Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands, for the first time under cover of night, a new wrinkle in the testing program. The preceding four flight tests, all successes, had bolstered the Pentagon's confidence that the so-called ground-based system to shoot down incoming warheads in mid-course was on track. President Bush wants to put an Alaska-based test bed with five missile silos -- and rudimentary operational capabilities -- in place by October 2004. The site, at Fort Greely, near Fairbanks, would constitute one leg of a projected multilayered defense against missiles from countries such as Iran, Iraq and North Korea, members of Bush's axis of evil. Developing a missile defense is the Pentagon's single most expensive program, likely to cost hundreds of billions of dollars over coming decades, including for sea-, air- and space-based components. For each of the past two fiscal years alone, Bush requested and Congress approved $7.8 billion in research, development and testing funds. Boeing Co. is the lead system integrator for the ground-based mid-course program. TRW Inc. builds the system's battle command, control and communications system. Lockheed Martin Corp. is the prime contractor on the current booster system. xponent Explodus Interuptus Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
