RE: CoS in the news
Better idea - remove tax exemptions and other special benefits for religions and quasi-religious organistions, with the exception of charitable ventures (which must be purely charitable subsidiaries of or wholly separate ventures). And only those over twenty-one should be allowed access to churches/ temples/ashrams/mosques/synagogues and other places where the evil nonsense of religion is purveyed or to the vile corrupting texts of religion. Now there's a great idea! And, how about displaying a health warning outside churches/temples/etc., like the warnings on cigarette packets? Curtis Someone tell me what the story is with Maru? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 09:31 PM Friday 1/25/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: What's wrong with a lapdancer drinking Scotch? Julia Spilling it? Especially if it's on the rocks? You have a point there. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
On Jan 26, 2008, at 12:58 AM, Curtis Burisch wrote: Better idea - remove tax exemptions and other special benefits for religions and quasi-religious organistions, with the exception of charitable ventures (which must be purely charitable subsidiaries of or wholly separate ventures). And only those over twenty-one should be allowed access to churches/ temples/ashrams/mosques/synagogues and other places where the evil nonsense of religion is purveyed or to the vile corrupting texts of religion. Now there's a great idea! And, how about displaying a health warning outside churches/temples/etc., like the warnings on cigarette packets? Unfortunately for this plan, as I seem to recall having seen discussed here recently, presence of religious faith has been shown to have beneficial health effects. I am far too lazy to look it up for you. Someone tell me what the story is with Maru? Here's a link to an answer given on this list in October: http://www.mccmedia.com/pipermail/brin-l/Week-of- Mon-20071008/140300.html It has to do with Japanese ship names and some sort of friendly rivalry between this and the Culture mailing list. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
- Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: Re: CoS in the news On 25 Jan 2008, at 23:18, Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: Jim Sharkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:33 PM Subject: RE: CoS in the news Because I love you guys, I give you the CS orientation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJtUDcm3bBw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfiZehbTAxU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7W9Duq145Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdSqzl9QYTQ It's pretty funny stuff. Because I love my country, I ask that you read this: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=57816postcount=1 Right now I am angry, very angry. And to some degree I am angry with myself for forgetting just how bad these people are. All my life we have talked about the methods the evil people in the world use to subjugate those with less power. And we felt more that a bit superior because we were Americans and we didn't cotton to such behavior. But here we see that the evils we abhor have taken root in our own nation and are spreading out through the world from *our* soil. It is small wonder that the nation of Germany has set to outlaw this group. In my opinion we should do the same. Just ban all religions. That would solve the problem. That might be a reasonable response if Scientology were in fact a religion. xponent Tards Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
- Original Message - From: Curtis Burisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:58 AM Subject: RE: CoS in the news Curtis Someone tell me what the story is with Maru? I really ned to put this on a webpage.G What is Maru? H..good question. Maru is a ship, a Japanese ship. Maru is also a defense against the cultural imperialism of the Culture mailing list with their GSVs and ROUs.(That's a different discussion thoughG) Maru is a way of adding remarks at the end of a message in a way that is distinctive and exclusive to Brin-L. If you see someone who uses a Maru shipname, they are from Brin-L. Maru is a means to crack a joke, make an observation, or poke a stick in someone's eye. And below is the background from which it was derived. *** The word maru originated in the seventh century and has since come to serve as a popular name for a host of Japanese vessels. The first ship to use the suffix is said to have been the 16th century ship called the Nipon Maru, built by the legendary Toyotomi Hideyoschi. However, despite its widespread use, the word has never been graced with a definitive definition. Our attempts to muster a universal meaning of the term maru have all ended in frustration, with each possibility smothered in a down-pour of vaguery. For instance, one Japanese reference worker gave as many as fourteen meanings for maru, while another offered at least five additional meanings without including all the other fourteen. These misunderstandings and discrepancies have arisen from the fact that maru is a word laced with suggestiveness. Here is a selection of some of the explanations we have found. Possible meanings The term maru originally seemed to act as a form of compliment when attached to certain personal names. For example, people seemed to be bestowing respect upon the eighth century poet Hitomaru Kikinomoto by attaching the term to his name. It could also be seen as a term of endearment rather like a diminutive, as in the juvenile name Ushiwakamaru, of the twelfth-century general Yoshitsune Minamoto. Gradually the word was thrown to the dogs, literally, as people became accustomed to bestowing it upon their pet animals. Other names which received the maru blessing included a precious utensil used perhaps in some kind of tea ceremony or even the favoured tool of a deft craftsman. Another example of this maru phenomenon can be found in the mighty sword Mura-same-Maru; this famous blade of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries was supposed to be so potent that whoever owned it, regardless of his own intent, was destined to kill somebody sooner or later. The term maru also became associated with the concept of a circle. This circular affinity suggested completeness, entirety, wholeness; notions which the image of a circle seems to symbolise. Indeed, the connotation of 'wholeness' perhaps led to the use of maru to mean 'one entire hour' and also as a term for the fanciful frying of a 'whole' animal, as opposed to a mere handful of giblets. In addition to all these other meanings, it also has an association with 'dust', while at the same time referring to 'those naive in love', hence the wistful phrase dusty lover. Maru and ships Having sashayed through the multifarious meanings of maru, it is now time to cut to the chase, examining it in the context of ships. The use of maru in a ship name would seem to express the hope that the ship will defend those aboard against all perils of the sea, being as complete as a circle, as trustworthy as a sword and as virile as a master craftsman's favourite tool. In addition to this, it also carried a feeling of attachment or endearment, such as that felt by one dusty lover for another. Also, unlike most other countries, a ship in Japan is referred to as a male and in adding maru to the ships name, as was done with young boys in olden times, the ship was protected from harm. In the 1905 edition of Basil Hall Chamberlain's Things Japanese he says of `maru' It is often asked: what does the word Maru mean in the names of ships ...? His answer is: a.. the real meaning is obscure b.. it is probably merging of two words: `maru' and `maro', which was a term of endearment. c.. it used to be used for swords, armour, parts of castles, etc. too. *** From India, the Sanskrit manu also traveled east. In Japan, manu became maru, a word which is included in the name of most Japanese ships. In ancient Chinese mythology, the god Hakudo Maru came down from heaven to teach people how to make ships. This name could well relate to Noah, the first shipbuilder. The custom of including maru in
Re: CoS in the news
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: Curtis Burisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:58 AM Subject: RE: CoS in the news Curtis Someone tell me what the story is with Maru? I really ned to put this on a webpage.G I agree. :) It would be nice to just have a link to it somewhere and when someone asked, they'd just get 10 short responses containing the link from 10 different people. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The Clinic Seed
So has anyone else read Kieth's story? Kieth, have you considered, rather than transformation into a spirit world, a transformation into some sort of nano-construct that could exist independent of the clinic? Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
On 27 Jan 2008, at 02:27, Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just ban all religions. That would solve the problem. That might be a reasonable response if Scientology were in fact a religion. What makes you think that it isn't? Quacks like a duck Maru. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Clinic Seed
On 1/26/2008 8:47:13 PM, Doug Pensinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: So has anyone else read Kieth's story? I read it a while back when the link was posted before. It is quite good! xponent Orions Arm Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
William wrote: snip So while the data suggest some health benefits from social engagement, they are anything but a ringing endorsement of the health benefits of religion or religious faith, per se. It would make sense to me that individuals with some sort of social support group might have lower stress and as a result longer lifespan, but of course the support group wouldn't have to be a religion. Hey, maybe mailing lists have health benefits. 8^) Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
On 27 Jan 2008, at 01:43, Dave Land wrote: On Jan 26, 2008, at 12:58 AM, Curtis Burisch wrote: Better idea - remove tax exemptions and other special benefits for religions and quasi-religious organistions, with the exception of charitable ventures (which must be purely charitable subsidiaries of or wholly separate ventures). And only those over twenty-one should be allowed access to churches/ temples/ashrams/mosques/synagogues and other places where the evil nonsense of religion is purveyed or to the vile corrupting texts of religion. Now there's a great idea! And, how about displaying a health warning outside churches/temples/etc., like the warnings on cigarette packets? Unfortunately for this plan, as I seem to recall having seen discussed here recently, presence of religious faith has been shown to have beneficial health effects. I am far too lazy to look it up for you. http://www.tjols.com/article-450.html Proponents of bringing religion into medicine cite research showing that religious devotion is associated with better health outcomes. But overwhelmingly, the evidence is weak and inconclusive, marred by serious flaws in research methods. Even the best review article in the field, published by Lynda Powell in the American Psychologist in 2003, found that in all but 43 of the hundreds of studies examined, the research methods were so flawed that they couldn’t definitively determine that religion and not other factors, including chance, was responsible for the outcomes. Of all the studies that attempt to establish a connection between religion and health, those finding an association between attendance at religious services and life expectancy are, without question, the strongest. In one of the best studies, a survey of more than 21,000 subjects, R. A. Hummer and colleagues found that frequency of religious attendance was inversely associated with mortality. However, the protective effect was entirely absent for patients with cancer, and only marginally significant for patients with heart disease, the two leading causes of death in the United States. A report published in the American Journal of Public Health in 1998 showed that, in a community sample of 2,023 affluent, largely white adults over age 55 in Marin County, California, religious attendance was associated with reduced mortality. However, the magnitude and significance of the effect varied depending upon the definition of attendance, and whether the model included other indices of social engagement. So while the data suggest some health benefits from social engagement, they are anything but a ringing endorsement of the health benefits of religion or religious faith, per se. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Doug Pensinger wrote: William wrote: snip So while the data suggest some health benefits from social engagement, they are anything but a ringing endorsement of the health benefits of religion or religious faith, per se. It would make sense to me that individuals with some sort of social support group might have lower stress and as a result longer lifespan, but of course the support group wouldn't have to be a religion. Hey, maybe mailing lists have health benefits. 8^) Doug That would depend on the mailing list. Any mailing list that you can shoot a quick, Hey, this happened, should I go to the ER? to and get constructive answers is probably going to have at least a minimal health benefit. Also being on a local mailing list with lots of people who have had both good and bad experiences with various doctors will help a lot in selecting a GP or a specialist or a dentist or whatever. (Anyone in or near Round Rock, TX wanting plastic surgery, I can make a recommendation for the surgeon) (And, the concensus as to whether or not to go to the ER with a potential broken toe is, If you want prescription painkillers, sure, but there's not a whole heck of a lot they'll actually *do* for you. So, I'm going to wait until Monday and see how bad it is then, and if it's really bad, call my GP and get a recommendation from *her* as to what to do.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
On 1/26/2008 8:47:30 PM, William T Goodall ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On 27 Jan 2008, at 02:27, Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just ban all religions. That would solve the problem. That might be a reasonable response if Scientology were in fact a religion. What makes you think that it isn't? Considering your point of view on all things religious, this could be a difficult discussion. So if you consider The Church Of The Jedi or Pastafarianism to be bonafide religions, then there is no point in us wasting our time. If you do indeed draw a line between organizations with origins that arise from actual faith and those who are scams perpetrated for various reasons when defining religions then we might have something to discuss. I would expect you are aware of the history of Sci/Dia but if not, as Anonymous says, Google is your friend. Quacks like a duck Maru. Sounds more like the barking of Lawyers to my ear. Have you seen Anonymous' Response To The Media? This, to me, is the single most science fictional real-life-event of my lifetime. Offhand I cannot recall anything that resonated with my favorite genre the way this story does. You always hear people say You can't make this stuff up, but in this case every aspect of it is like something made up. Probably because every aspect of it is. xponent The Silence Of The Scientologists Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
On 27 Jan 2008, at 03:28, Robert Seeberger wrote: On 1/26/2008 8:47:30 PM, William T Goodall ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On 27 Jan 2008, at 02:27, Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just ban all religions. That would solve the problem. That might be a reasonable response if Scientology were in fact a religion. What makes you think that it isn't? Considering your point of view on all things religious, this could be a difficult discussion. So if you consider The Church Of The Jedi or Pastafarianism to be bonafide religions, then there is no point in us wasting our time. If you do indeed draw a line between organizations with origins that arise from actual faith and those who are scams perpetrated for various reasons when defining religions then we might have something to discuss. That's not a useful distinction because the bona fides of e.g. Joseph Smith or Muhammad are unknowable but the religions they founded are nevertheless 'genuine'. Whatever that's worth for made-up nonsense. Prophets/profits Maru. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
At 09:20 PM Saturday 1/26/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Doug Pensinger wrote: William wrote: snip So while the data suggest some health benefits from social engagement, they are anything but a ringing endorsement of the health benefits of religion or religious faith, per se. It would make sense to me that individuals with some sort of social support group might have lower stress and as a result longer lifespan, but of course the support group wouldn't have to be a religion. Hey, maybe mailing lists have health benefits. 8^) Doug That would depend on the mailing list. Any mailing list that you can shoot a quick, Hey, this happened, should I go to the ER? to and get constructive answers is probably going to have at least a minimal health benefit. Also being on a local mailing list with lots of people who have had both good and bad experiences with various doctors will help a lot in selecting a GP or a specialist or a dentist or whatever. (Anyone in or near Round Rock, TX wanting plastic surgery, I can make a recommendation for the surgeon) (And, the concensus as to whether or not to go to the ER with a potential broken toe is, If you want prescription painkillers, sure, but there's not a whole heck of a lot they'll actually *do* for you. So, I'm going to wait until Monday and see how bad it is then, and if it's really bad, call my GP and get a recommendation from *her* as to what to do.) Julia Okay, I think there is a story there waiting to be told. (Possibly two, if you include how you came to be able to recommend a plastic surgeon in Round Rock, TX . . . ) -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
At 09:24 AM Saturday 1/26/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 09:31 PM Friday 1/25/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: What's wrong with a lapdancer drinking Scotch? Julia Spilling it? Especially if it's on the rocks? You have a point there. :) Julia FWIW, my original thought was simply that spilling a cold drink (e.g., with ice in it) on somebody's lap would be more uncomfortable than one at room temperature. As I started to reply, I recalled the term Scotch on the rocks for it being served over ice cubes. It wasn't until I had started typing that it occurred to me that it could have a second interpretation in this instance . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Clinic Seed
Robert wrote: Orions Arm Maru Hmmm. Went to the website (briefly) and read the Wiki article. I hate the idea of the archailects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archailect. I would hope that if the technology to transcend is discovered that it would become available to anyone that was interested. Also, and I don't know if this attitude is prevalent in Orion's Arm, but I came across this statement: Then again, it is just as likely (perhaps - in view of the infinite capacity of the human race to mess things up - a whole lot *more* likely) that it won't. In Orion's Arm we have deliberately presented a timeline of deeply Pessimistic Transhumanism. This assumes (quite reasonably) (a) that it will take a lot longer than a few decades to get all this ultratech on stream, and (b) the ascension will not be total or across the board, but rather only a few sentients will ascend, while most will be left at their present sapient level. Infinite capacity to mess things up? Maybe in the short term, but haven't we done pretty well as a species so far (last seven years notwithstanding)? That kind of negative, pessimistic observation tends to put me off. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CoS in the news
Julia wrote: (And, the concensus as to whether or not to go to the ER with a potential broken toe is, If you want prescription painkillers, sure, but there's not a whole heck of a lot they'll actually *do* for you. So, I'm going to wait until Monday and see how bad it is then, and if it's really bad, call my GP and get a recommendation from *her* as to what to do.) Ouch! Hope you're not in too much pain. What happened? Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
