Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Russell wrote: A lot of this is simply the context the books are written in - it is entirely from Harry's perspective. I can't think of any narration that occurs outside Harry's observation, and Harry only associates himself with the good guys. Draco, Dolores, Lucius et al probably have quite interesting multi-dimensional lives, but Harry never sees any of that because of his limited contact with them, whereas he has deep and meaningful discussions with the good guys on a regular basis. The Inner Life of Draco Malfoy... God, what a scary thought ;-) But that's definitely a good observation, I had not thought of it that way. Now that Harry is getting older and having his illusions shattered, I wonder if he'll start to see any of those characters as more than just the bad guys. Reggie Bautista _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Horn, John wrote: I do like how the books are becoming more mature and sophisticated as Rowling has gone on. I wonder how much of that is intentional or just a result of her maturing as a writer. That is intentional. IIRC, Rowling is writing the books to be age appropriate for the age-level that Harry is in the book. (i.e., the first book is supposed to be appropriate for 11-yr-olds, both in difficulty and subject matter). I have a feeling that each book will get increasingly ambiguous regarding good/evil as he gets older. Now that the kids are 16 or so, I've been wondering if there is some sort of anti-sex hex at Hogwarts! There must be! There was the scene when they tried to go into the girls dorm to fetch Hermione, which activated the staircase. Perhaps we'll see more of this if Harry gets a girlfriend. -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Gautam Mukunda wrote: I have to admit that I _was_ a little surprised by who died. I thought right up until the final battle that it would be Hagrid - and by the time the battle started I was too caught up in it to even remember that someonme was supposed to die. I agree that it didn't, for some reason, have much emotional resonance for me either - not the death, anyways, although much else that Harry goes through does, often enough. SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! I thought the choice of who would die became obvious soon into the book. The character suddenly started displaying emotional imbalance, was removed from action, every indication was given that Harry himself preferred to keep this character at a distance...Rowling left no reason for the continued existence of this character. If that didn't make it obvious enough, there was that grating ploy, that pathos inducing gift, accompanied by a portentous message. She had actually made it so obvious that I would have been surprised had anyone else been killed. Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Jim (I think) wrote: Of course, I'm about the only person who liked Luna Lovegood among people I;ve talked to, so what do I know? :) Jon replied: I like Looney too. :) Me Too (tm)! Reggie Bautista No Value Added Maru _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Tom Beck wrote: In general, I think, Rowling does much better with her good guys than with her villains. A lot of this is simply the context the books are written in - it is entirely from Harry's perspective. I can't think of any narration that occurs outside Harry's observation, and Harry only associates himself with the good guys. Draco, Dolores, Lucius et al probably have quite interesting multi-dimensional lives, but Harry never sees any of that because of his limited contact with them, whereas he has deep and meaningful discussions with the good guys on a regular basis. Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
--- Horn, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must disagree. I was somewhat disappointed in #5. The plot was sort-of pointless, if you think about it. The great mystery of who would die was pretty obvious to me. And for both my wife and myself, there was ZERO emotional reaction when the death did happen. I do like how the books are becoming more mature and sophisticated as Rowling has gone on. I wonder how much of that is intentional or just a result of her maturing as a writer. Now that the kids are 16 or so, I've been wondering if there is some sort of anti-sex hex at Hogwarts! There must be! - jmh I have to admit that I _was_ a little surprised by who died. I thought right up until the final battle that it would be Hagrid - and by the time the battle started I was too caught up in it to even remember that someonme was supposed to die. I agree that it didn't, for some reason, have much emotional resonance for me either - not the death, anyways, although much else that Harry goes through does, often enough. MINOR SPOILERS! MINOR SPOILERS! MINOR SPOILERS! There. I don't know about the anti-sex hex. There was a vague implication of it during Book 4 (Fleur and what's-his-name, Roger Davies or something, were at least snogging away in the rose bushes after the dance). 16 is still pretty young. I know that's supposedly the median age for first sexual activity in the US, but, still, that seems young. I doubt that there will be any by other than implication during the books. I rather imagine that Harry's going to end up with Ginny Weasley, who will only be 16 at the _end_ of the 7th book as well. Although who knows, of course? My favorite moment in the book, though, by a lot, is the Minister of Magic's (I'm forgetting his name) attempt to arrest Dumbledore. I know you were a very good auror ?, but if you try to arrest me, I'm afraid that I'll have to hurt you. That setup was so perfect. For the first time we saw why Voldemort was _afraid_ of Dumbledore - that he was more than a kindly old geezer running a high school. I loved that - the action sequence, fine, it was good to see what Dumbledore is capable of, but that was, to me, far more effective. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
I enjoyed #5 immensely. I especially liked the way Rowling developed Ginny Weasley - she's turning out to be a very interesting young witch. In general, I think, Rowling does much better with her good guys than with her villains. I also liked the way a lot of stuff that happened in this novel was prefigured in the preceding ones. It shows that she has done an excellent job of world-building and future history plotting. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Tom Beck wrote: In general, I think, Rowling does much better with her good guys than with her villains. Generally true, but I *loved* Dolores Umbridge. Of course, I'm about the only person who liked Luna Lovegood among people I;ve talked to, so what do I know? :) Jim ___ Eliminate pop-ups before they appear! Visit www.PopSwatter.com now - It's FREE. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Generally true, but I *loved* Dolores Umbridge. Of course, I'm about the only person who liked Luna Lovegood among people I;ve talked to, so what do I know? :) A) I don't consider Umbridge to be completely a villain. She's certainly wrongheaded and even cruel and destructive. But she's not in the same category as Voldemort or Bellatrix Lestrange or even Lucius Malfoy. B) I like Luna, too, although I wish we'd had at least a mention of her in a previous book. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Tom wrote: A) I don't consider Umbridge to be completely a villain. She's certainly wrongheaded and even cruel and destructive. But she's not in the same category as Voldemort or Bellatrix Lestrange or even Lucius Malfoy. B) I like Luna, too, although I wish we'd had at least a mention of her in a previous book. S P O I L E R S P A C E Just because Dolores' motives for her actions were not of the slay everyone and take over the world variety does not mean she's not a villain. Evil doesn't have to wear a black cape and cackle maliciously in order to be evil. I found her brand of banal self-centeredness far more chilling than Voldemort's megalomania. Additionally, her willingness to use the Dark Arts (the scarring pen, for exanmple) and to extract information with the Cruciatus Curse shows her true colors. I can see your point about Luna; I suppose she could have gotten a mention in passing at some point. But she is a Ravenclaw, and I don't recall any of Harry's classes being with them. One could assume she just never came up in conversation, and I'm willing to give JKR a pass on that one. Jim ___ Express Yourself - Share Your Mood in Emails! Visit www.SmileyCentral.com - the happiest place on the Web. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
S P O I L E R S P A C E Just because Dolores' motives for her actions were not of the slay everyone and take over the world variety does not mean she's not a villain. Evil doesn't have to wear a black cape and cackle maliciously in order to be evil. I found her brand of banal self-centeredness far more chilling than Voldemort's megalomania. Additionally, her willingness to use the Dark Arts (the scarring pen, for exanmple) and to extract information with the Cruciatus Curse shows her true colors. I think she's an interesting case for Rowling, whose villains usually seem to be kind of Johnny One-Notes. She and Fudge are well-intentioned but so wrong-headed as to be all but villains. However, they aren't. They are in between, which makes a nice change for Rowling. I mean, Draco Malfoy - how is he fooling anyone? Why does Snape, who clearly abhors Voldemort and all the Death Eaters, still show any favor at all to Slytherin just because it's his own house, when it is full of people who at the very least sympathize with Voldemort? Another gray area - Snape, not Draco. Interesting... Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Tom wrote: S P O I L E R S P A C E Why does Snape, who clearly abhors Voldemort and all the Death Eaters, still show any favor at all to Slytherin just because it's his own house, when it is full of people who at the very least sympathize with Voldemort? Keeping up appearances, I imagine. He uses Occlumency to hide his true feelings from Voldermort, and favors Slytherin to demonstrate his continuing loyalty. Or at least that is my theory. Jim ___ Eliminate pop-ups before they appear! Visit www.PopSwatter.com now - It's FREE. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Tom wrote: S P O I L E R S P A C E Why does Snape, who clearly abhors Voldemort and all the Death Eaters, still show any favor at all to Slytherin just because it's his own house, when it is full of people who at the very least sympathize with Voldemort? Jim replied: Keeping up appearances, I imagine. He uses Occlumency to hide his true feelings from Voldermort, and favors Slytherin to demonstrate his continuing loyalty. Or at least that is my theory. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer? I hadn't thought about that. And it may be that he really doesn't see the problems with the students in Slytherin (or with most of them, anyway); teachers can be notoriously blind to what's going on right beneath their noses. He obviously has problems with Harry because of Harry's father, despite what Harry himself has done and been through. Also, maybe Snape feels that Slytherin is a valid choice of house (as Dumbledore must also feel, since he hasn't gotten rid of Slytherin house), and why not have some loyalty to your own house? Maybe he thinks some of the students from that house are salvageable, and he wants to be an example of how one can be dark and moody and... well, Goth, for lack of a better term, and still not be a Voldemort sympathizer or follower. Reggie Bautista _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Someone wrote: S P O I L E R S P A C E Just because Dolores' motives for her actions were not of the slay everyone and take over the world variety does not mean she's not a villain. Evil doesn't have to wear a black cape and cackle maliciously in order to be evil. I found her brand of banal self-centeredness far more chilling than Voldemort's megalomania. Additionally, her willingness to use the Dark Arts (the scarring pen, for exanmple) and to extract information with the Cruciatus Curse shows her true colors. Tom replied: I think she's an interesting case for Rowling, whose villains usually seem to be kind of Johnny One-Notes. She and Fudge are well-intentioned but so wrong-headed as to be all but villains. However, they aren't. They are in between, which makes a nice change for Rowling. I definitely see Fudge as well-intentioned but wrong-headed (or just plain stubborn), but Umbridge seems much more... well, she seems a lot like Cruella DeVille to me, actually :-) Reggie Bautista Disney-R-Us Maru _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
From: Jim Sharkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Tom Beck wrote: In general, I think, Rowling does much better with her good guys than with her villains. Generally true, but I *loved* Dolores Umbridge. Of course, I'm about the only person who liked Luna Lovegood among people I;ve talked to, so what do I know? :) I like Looney too. :) Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Jim Sharkey wrote: Tom wrote: S P O I L E R S P A C E Why does Snape, who clearly abhors Voldemort and all the Death Eaters, still show any favor at all to Slytherin just because it's his own house, when it is full of people who at the very least sympathize with Voldemort? Keeping up appearances, I imagine. He uses Occlumency to hide his true feelings from Voldermort, and favors Slytherin to demonstrate his continuing loyalty. Or at least that is my theory. I would say used occlumency. I believe that Voldermort knows exactly where Snape stands now. In the other books, this was given as a reason why Dumbledore trusted Snape--they both knew that Voldermort would kill Snape if he won. But Snape still has many flaws, he is another mixed character. As for the no-sex hex, my impression is that Harry is pretty out of it. There could be orgies at Hogwart's, for all Harry knew. Maybe he'll ask Hermionie in Book 6, and it will turn out that she's know about them for years. (And not told Harry and Ron, to give them more time to concentrate on their studies.) I kept hoping that Harry's anger would be partially explained as psychic overflow from Voldermort. I guess that it still could be, but the evidence so far points to Harry being a rather large jerk... ---David ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
From: David Hobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim Sharkey wrote: Tom wrote: S P O I L E R S P A C E Why does Snape, who clearly abhors Voldemort and all the Death Eaters, still show any favor at all to Slytherin just because it's his own house, when it is full of people who at the very least sympathize with Voldemort? Keeping up appearances, I imagine. He uses Occlumency to hide his true feelings from Voldermort, and favors Slytherin to demonstrate his continuing loyalty. Or at least that is my theory. I think that Snape, while being against Voldemort, is still basically a product of Slytherin, and thus is largely bound to be a jerk in any case, even if he isn't evil. Has anyone from Slytherin been protrayed in a positive manner at all, in any of the books? I can't think of any examples. As for the no-sex hex, my impression is that Harry is pretty out of it. There could be orgies at Hogwart's, for all Harry knew. Maybe he'll ask Hermionie in Book 6, and it will turn out that she's know about them for years. (And not told Harry and Ron, to give them more time to concentrate on their studies.) Well, we have to keep in mind that the HP books are still considered children's books. Even if they have a lot of adult appeal and an increasingly dark story that makes it less suitable for kids, there's going to be tons of 10-12 year olds hooked into the series, reading them. I extremely doubt that any of the series will feature anything more than kissing. I kept hoping that Harry's anger would be partially explained as psychic overflow from Voldermort. I guess that it still could be, but the evidence so far points to Harry being a rather large jerk... I read an interview with JKR, and her intention was to make Harry more realistic and less of a saint. 16 years olds can be moody jerks at times, and with all the stuff Harry's been put through, it's fairly understandable. I'd argue we probably should have seen gradual evidence of this sooner in the series, but what can you do? I'm guessing though, that Harry will work out his issues and come around by the end of book 6. _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
