Troll on the list needs to learn manners...
to take it off-list, little honey boo-boo. No no no. Aww, aren't you adorable? Here, honey, here's a wowwipop. Aww, aren't you good at passive aggressive insults? Here, suck on this. Warren Adams-Ockrassa JW, you really need to crawl out of your Mommy's basement and find something more rewarding to do that trying to lower others to your level of purile provocation and personal attack. By posting Actually, no, that is not why I assume you are not successful you're clearly evading responding to my questioning your comment why you assume I am not successful by phishing to get me to respond to your sarcasm, so you can deliver another cheap shot. That is exactly what trolls do when they can't refute an argument or retort. If you're not mature enough to participate in a rational dialog you should say nothing, or leave. Why are you on this site, anyway. you don't seem like a fan of David Brin? As for making compromises to get elected it wouldn't make a difference in this case. That is what Obama does, and he is much better than the alternative. In this case, no one would believe I would change my spots, plus they would not support me anyway because they already have too many candidates who would sell out for real. There is no way I will EVER agree to revolving door conflict of interest cronyism, backscratching patronage, politics! My goals include getting the SMO airport closed, getting free WiFi with a link to a Virtual Town Hall on the city website, etc. I have made substantial progress in that direction. Sometimes the best way to win is to lose. That is what Japan did... Jon Mann ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Troll on the list needs to learn manners...
On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Jon Louis Mann net_democr...@yahoo.comwrote: ... My goals include getting the SMO airport closed, getting free WiFi with a link to a Virtual Town Hall on the city website, etc. I have made substantial progress in that direction. Sometimes the best way to win is to lose. That is what Japan did... Close SMO?! We don't need any more small airports closing - we've lost thousands already and no new ones are opening. What's up with that? I've flown in and out of SMO many times... Nick ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Troll on the list needs to learn manners...
My question for the list is: if John comes across as a troll, why are people responding to him? By doing so, you give him exactly what he wants. By getting a rise out of others, he makes you dance to his tune. If you really think he has nothing worthwhile to add to the conversation, don't reply to his goads! Damon. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Troll on the list needs to learn manners...
On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 23:12:03 -0500, Damon Agretto damon.agre...@gmail.com wrote: My question for the list is: if John comes across as a troll, why are people responding to him? By doing so, you give him exactly what he wants. By getting a rise out of others, he makes you dance to his tune. If you really think he has nothing worthwhile to add to the conversation, don't reply to his goads! ..he says, even though it's an indirect means of poking the troll. ;) -- Warren ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Look Who's Back / Mike's crazy list of physics hypotheses that he wishes he had time to look into but doesn't have the time.
I'm back again. I don't really know that I am doing any better than I was when I left, but I will see. I wanted to discuss some concepts with intelligent people (some of whom may already know about some of this stuff). I will preface these that my knowledge of Quantum theory is small, and if anyone can recommend a good (emphasis on good, not overly simplified or popularized like Hawking's Books which read more like quantum physics for dummies I want nitty-gritty details) book on quantum theory, I would appreciate it. Mike's Crazy Hypothesis 1: I have heard hypothesized that neutrons are simply protons upon-which an electron has collapsed. First, does this make sense by our current understanding of quantum theory? If the hypothesis does make sense, what if the hypothesis is backwards? What if Neutrons are the natural state of matter and protons are neutrons that had part of them stripped away (likely during the big-bang)? This could explain why electrons are near mass-less and the incredibly strong force of attraction between protons and electrons. Mike's Crazy Hypothesis 2: I am half-way through reading Richard Dawkin's book The God Delusion. In it he says that proponents of a creator argue that the fundamental force constants in the universe are so finely tuned so as to allow the conditions that make life (as we know it) possible. and that if even one of these, like the strong force, was slightly different, that life would not be possible because if the strong force were higher, all hydrogen in the universe would have fused into heavier stuff, and if it were weaker, no heavier atoms essential to the formation of our planet and the life on it could be created in the cores of massive stars. He explains Multi-dimensional theory and it as a possible explanation that would explain why a universe that has the right constants can exist without a creator. Multi-dim theory aside, a thought occurred to me: If the constants of our universe need to be at a specific range for matter to exist in the forms that promote life, what if the constants like the strong force are not constants? What if, over billions of years (or even longer), the strong force slowly got weaker. Indeed, a higher strong force would go a long way to explain the singularity that resulted in the big bang, and the weakening of the strong force would go a long way to explaining why the big bang occurred in the first place. It might also go a long way to explain why Galaxies and solar-systems don't seem to follow the same model of gravity. If the fundamental constants of the universe are changing ever-so-slowly, Objects at a great distance would appear to be affected differently than objects closer together simply because of the time it took for the bodies to form with relation to each other and the changing of the fundamental forces. This may also explain the recent data suggesting that the universe appears to be expanding at an ever increasing rate rather than slowing down as one would expect. I have more crazy hypotheses, but I am getting tired, so I think that I will stop there for now. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Look Who's Back / Mike's crazy list of physics hypotheses that he wishes he had time to look into but doesn't have the time.
On 10/22/2010 10:35 PM, Michael Harney wrote: I'm back again. I don't really know that I am doing any better than I was when I left, but I will see. I wanted to discuss some concepts with intelligent people (some of whom may already know about some of this stuff). I will preface these that my knowledge of Quantum theory is small, and if anyone can recommend a good (emphasis on good, not overly simplified or popularized like Hawking's Books which read more like quantum physics for dummies I want nitty-gritty details) book on quantum theory, I would appreciate it. Have you tried Michio Kaku's or Brian Greene's books? In my experience they are both wonderfully accessible writers with very firm grasps in the details of quantum and string/M theories. I've certainly enjoyed what I've read from both writers. (They are also both humble, working theoreticians.) -- --Max Battcher-- http://worldmaker.net ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
On 18 Nov 2009 at 20:40, Bruce Bostwick wrote: Considering the fact that the only two loss of vehicle and crew events NASA has ever had to deal with that actually involved going into or coming back from space (not counting Apollo 1 in that, as it Both were directly caused by problems on-launch... the RCC leading edge of the wing -- and since the spaceplane design in question does *not* include any abort options from liftoff to the !??? What spaceplane design do you think I'm talking about? I am not refering to any single design, and never have been. I'd have to question why putting crew on top of a rocket is insane. Because both failures on launch are related to strapping huge rockets to the crew section, and then taking off vertically, maybe? a lot of ways. About the only thing Ares I/Ares V can't do is... ...Is retrieve the decades lost while NASA messed arround with the shuttle and ISS? Oh, and let's not forget launch affordably, be reuseable, have a sensible turnarround time, use safer hybrid fuel systems... AndrewC ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
On Nov 19, 2009, at 6:44 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 18 Nov 2009 at 20:40, Bruce Bostwick wrote: Considering the fact that the only two loss of vehicle and crew events NASA has ever had to deal with that actually involved going into or coming back from space (not counting Apollo 1 in that, as it Both were directly caused by problems on-launch... .. and would not have caused an LOV/C in either event if the geometry of the stack didn't put components like the SRB *next to*, and not *in tandem with*, other components like the ET, likewise with the ET and the wing leading edges. If an SRB burn-through happened in a tandem stack, the most that would happen would be a noticeable reduction in SRB thrust and possibly a skewed thrust vector, which would be easily escapable with an LES activation. And ice-saturated foam chunks popping off the ET can only fall downstream .. in a tandem stack, there aren't any fragile wing leading edges or TPS tiles in the way for them to hit. the RCC leading edge of the wing -- and since the spaceplane design in question does *not* include any abort options from liftoff to the !??? What spaceplane design do you think I'm talking about? I am not refering to any single design, and never have been. See below. I'd have to question why putting crew on top of a rocket is insane. Because both failures on launch are related to strapping huge rockets to the crew section, and then taking off vertically, maybe? See above. The stack geometry of the STS is one of the most insane things I've ever seen, and I'm quite frankly impressed that they've only had two LOV/C's and not many more, especially in the pre-51L days. (It says something that the current mission plans usually include a contingency STS-3xx rescue mission, which, before 39B was converted to Ares I support, was stacked at 39B ready to fuel up and launch whenever an STS-1xx was flying. Word is that if NASA has to fly an STS-3xx, the STS program will be terminated after that flight.) a lot of ways. About the only thing Ares I/Ares V can't do is... ...Is retrieve the decades lost while NASA messed arround with the shuttle and ISS? Oh, and let's not forget launch affordably, be reuseable, have a sensible turnarround time, use safer hybrid fuel systems... AndrewC And there, I'll partially agree with you. I'll concede that a spaceplane design that is better than the Orion/Ares I may exist. STS just isn't it. And you know what? If you come up with a propulsion system that's more efficient than binary-fuel combustion from onboard fuel and oxidizer, that will get a spaceplane from earth surface to LEO with only the consumables it carries onboard, and allows carrying a payload that doesn't run head on into diminishing returns the way the current systems do, I'd be at the head of the line cheering for it. And if you come up with such a thing, and can make it work, you can pretty much write your own paycheck, either contracting to NASA or running your own launch business. ;) (I've considered MIPCC-type turbojet propulsion and a flying-wing robot lifting stage for that first part of the trip out of the troposphere, and there's some real promise there in terms of the significantly greater Isp of air-breathing (or LOx-supplemented) turbojet thrust vs. rocket thrust, and possibly an aerospike engine in the orbiter to get from that jet-lift altitude to LEO. Once you're out of the atmosphere and not dealing with significant degrees of drag, really efficient technologies like VASIMR become an option, but that first 50,000 feet or so is a real hurdle.) A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -- attributed to Lazarus Long by Robert A. Heinlein ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
Oh, and while we're talking about STS .. why is it, exactly, that NASA has been dropping all of those ET's back into the atmosphere to burn up, after spending the $10k/pound to get them up there, and not saving them on-orbit as construction material? I know they've considered keeping them on-orbit, purging out the remaining propellant traces (which are hydrogen and oxygen, nothing toxic like hypergolics or anything like that), sealing and pressurizing them, and using them as space station components? I've never really seen the logic in carrying something that large into orbit, *getting* it into orbit (albeit with a fairly low perigee and a fairly rapid decay), and then just throwing it away .. you got it out of the gravity well, and could use it as structural material, and you just abandon it? Doesn't make sense, unless I'm really missing something important .. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
On 19 Nov 2009 at 8:19, Bruce Bostwick wrote: Oh, and while we're talking about STS .. why is it, exactly, that NASA has been dropping all of those ET's back into the atmosphere to burn up, after spending the $10k/pound to get them up there, and not saving them on-orbit as construction material? One of my my *major* bugbears with the way the entire program's been run, actually. They've hauled up the ISS *inside* the shuttle. I have yet to hear any convincing explination either. For reference, the volume of the ET's LOX tank alone is very roughly 3500m^3. The current ISS habitable volume is 358m^3. The stack geometry of the STS is one of the most insane things I've ever seen, and I'm quite frankly impressed that they've only had two LOV/C's and not many more, especially in the pre-51L days. I'm not convinced that for carrying Humans, Ares is going to be much safer. Yes, I've heard the arguments. Still not entirely convinced, and it's still an extremely expensive launch vehicle - for the price, they'd be better just using proven Russian lifters. And you know what? If you come up with a propulsion system that's more efficient than binary-fuel combustion from onboard fuel and oxidizer, Well - I'm sure you're aware that SpaceShipOne sucessfully used a N2O/HTPB Hybrid rocket engine. And I'm with Pournelle's contention that if you gave Rutan a billion, he'd have a working reuseable Spaceplane which could reach a reasonable orbit inside three years. (And honestly, he could of done so for at least a decade). ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
On Nov 19, 2009, at 11:15 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 19 Nov 2009 at 8:19, Bruce Bostwick wrote: Oh, and while we're talking about STS .. why is it, exactly, that NASA has been dropping all of those ET's back into the atmosphere to burn up, after spending the $10k/pound to get them up there, and not saving them on-orbit as construction material? One of my my *major* bugbears with the way the entire program's been run, actually. They've hauled up the ISS *inside* the shuttle. I have yet to hear any convincing explination either. For reference, the volume of the ET's LOX tank alone is very roughly 3500m^3. The current ISS habitable volume is 358m^3. Exactly. Why waste all that material if you *have it in orbit with you*? All they'd have to do is delay releasing the tank until after the OMS burns, and maybe compensate for the change in thrustline with some RCS torque if they can't gimbal the OMS engines. At most, they'd have to bolt an auxiliary propulsion module on it with enough delta-V to get it to a storage orbit. Trivial, given that the cost of getting it up to transfer orbit has already been paid. That being said, what I really wish someone would propose is sending a robot propulsion/navigation system out to a conveniently sized nickel/ iron asteroid, bring it home, and park it in an orbit high enough to keep it from decaying for the foreseeable future (and any orbit with a perigee higher than a few hundred miles qualifies for that), preferably one that doesn't spend too much time in the van Allen belts, and set up an automated smelter, foundry, and mill on/in it that can build structural components on-orbit, without ever having to lift them up from earth. And, if there's a surplus, make periodic drops to the surface. Did I mention that steel parts made in a vacuum are incredibly strong, mainly because they don't have any of the oxide inclusions and other contaminants that are unavoidable in the same parts made in an air atmosphere? ;) *That* would be a good application for VASIMR and other high- efficiency engine technologies .. The stack geometry of the STS is one of the most insane things I've ever seen, and I'm quite frankly impressed that they've only had two LOV/C's and not many more, especially in the pre-51L days. I'm not convinced that for carrying Humans, Ares is going to be much safer. Yes, I've heard the arguments. Still not entirely convinced, and it's still an extremely expensive launch vehicle - for the price, they'd be better just using proven Russian lifters. There's still the question of transporting hardware to the launch site, which if we were using Russian launch systems would involve either shipping all that hardware to Baikonur (and a greatly expanded fleet of Super Guppies and all the infrastructure to support them), or setting Canaveral up to launch Protons, which would involve shipping them here and building an entire new pad structure (and possibly major modifications to the VAB high bays) and fitting out MLP's to support them. And building a UDMH/N2O4 infrastructure at the new pad, to boot. Nasty stuff, those two. Worth taking the tour of the Titan II Museum in AZ to hear just how nasty. [And the Russian systems haven't always been all that safe. There's a blast scar at Baikonur, from an N-1 crash in the 60's that pretty much wrecked all the pad infrastructure they had at the time, that was clearly visible from orbit for at least 20 years. (That was from the one that shut down all but one of its first stages a couple of hundred feet up, and fell back onto the pad. The blast from it had enough of an overpressure to flatten all the surrounding buildings and buckle the tanks on the one remaining N-1 that hadn't been launched yet. Which is why the USSR never landed on the moon.) The Protons are a much more mature system, especially now, granted, but a lot of the legacy systems were USSR-built and .. well, let's just say they cut a few corners here and there.] And you know what? If you come up with a propulsion system that's more efficient than binary-fuel combustion from onboard fuel and oxidizer, Well - I'm sure you're aware that SpaceShipOne sucessfully used a N2O/HTPB Hybrid rocket engine. And I'm with Pournelle's contention that if you gave Rutan a billion, he'd have a working reuseable Spaceplane which could reach a reasonable orbit inside three years. (And honestly, he could of done so for at least a decade). Pournelle is probably just about right, there. It all comes down to a) developing enough thrust (and/or lift) to get out of the part of the atmosphere where you're having to expend most of your energy pushing air out of the way (one reason RP1/LOX worked so much better for first stages early on), and b) putting in enough deltaa-V, fast enough, to get to a high enough apogee to be able to burn one last time to bring the perigee
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
Bruce Bostwick wrote: That being said, what I really wish someone would propose is sending a robot propulsion/navigation system out to a conveniently sized nickel/ iron asteroid, bring it home, and park it in an orbit high enough to keep it from decaying for the foreseeable future Great idea! All it would require was a propulsion system that does not waste fuel to change the asteroid's speed from about 50 km/s to 30 km/s in the perihelium of the transfer orbit, and it would be cheaper than launching stuff from Earth at the enormous 10 km/s speed (give or take a few km/s). Alberto Monteiro ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
On Nov 19, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Bruce Bostwick wrote: That being said, what I really wish someone would propose is sending a robot propulsion/navigation system out to a conveniently sized nickel/ iron asteroid, bring it home, and park it in an orbit high enough to keep it from decaying for the foreseeable future Great idea! All it would require was a propulsion system that does not waste fuel to change the asteroid's speed from about 50 km/s to 30 km/s in the perihelium of the transfer orbit, and it would be cheaper than launching stuff from Earth at the enormous 10 km/s speed (give or take a few km/s). Alberto Monteiro Not as tall an order as it might sound, using something like VASIMR which has an Isp of up to 5000 s. Once you get out of the atmosphere, a higher efficiency engine system can spread out the delta-V across a fairly large period of time, and with enough engines and enough energy (some of which, for part of the mission at least, can come from PV panels), I think it would be within reach to bring us a suitable size asteroid. And as far as how much could be mined from one, well .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining The asteroid 16 Psyche is believed to contain 1.7×1019 kg of nickel- iron, which could supply the 2004 world production requirement for several million years. A small portion of the extracted material would also contain precious metals. I think it might be worth a try. ;) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
On 19 Nov 2009 at 12:23, Bruce Bostwick wrote: That being said, what I really wish someone would propose is sending a robot propulsion/navigation system out to a conveniently sized nickel/ iron asteroid, bring it home, and park it in an orbit high enough to Question: Would you need to go the asteroid belt for this, or are there inner-system asteroids, or even NEA's in easy-to-capture orbits, which would be useable? lift them up from earth. And, if there's a surplus, make periodic drops to the surface. Yep. Getting things /down/ is easy, things just need to fall correctly. Heck, even if there's a requirement for a Human to be up there and check the trajectory, it's cheap compared to the metals we're talking about. Which is why the USSR never landed on the moon.) The Protons are a much more mature system, especially now, granted, but a lot of the legacy systems were USSR-built and .. well, let's just say they cut a few corners here and there.] True, but they're an existing system, and while a proper replacement system is designed the Russians could do the man-lifting for NASA without the massive cost of Ares I launches. Pournelle is probably just about right, there. :) It was in a now several-year old rant of his I agree with... Heck, you could give a billion to five companies to hedge your bets, include a couple of the major aerospace companies if you wanted. I'd still put my money on the small comnoanies coming up with the working designs at this point... AndrewC Dawn Falcon ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
Bruce Bostwick wrote: Not as tall an order as it might sound, using something like VASIMR which has an Isp of up to 5000 s. Once you get out of the atmosphere, a higher efficiency engine system can spread out the delta-V across a fairly large period of time, and with enough engines and enough energy (some of which, for part of the mission at least, can come from PV panels), I think it would be within reach to bring us a suitable size asteroid. How about the way they did it in Heart of the Comet? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
On Nov 19, 2009, at 4:50 PM, Andrew Crystall wrote: That being said, what I really wish someone would propose is sending a robot propulsion/navigation system out to a conveniently sized nickel/ iron asteroid, bring it home, and park it in an orbit high enough to Question: Would you need to go the asteroid belt for this, or are there inner-system asteroids, or even NEA's in easy-to-capture orbits, which would be useable? There are definitely inner system and near-Earth asteroids. Not sure how many of them are nickel-iron in large enough quantities to invest in trying to catch one -- about 10% of asteroids are M-type, and I can't seem to find any info on whether that population distribution is the same for the near-Earth variety as it is for the main-belt variety. The NEA's are in fairly elliptical orbits with perihelia much lower than that of Earth (which would be great for PV-assisted VASIMR, which could lower the aphelion to the point where the asteroid was exposed to near Earth-level solar illumination and allow raising the perihelion as well), so it would take a long time and a lot of reaction mass to get into a transfer orbit that would put a capture within reach of a high efficiency engine. Unless a translunar slingshot would help. ;) About the only thing we'd have going in our favor is that most of them aren't too much out of the plane of the ecliptic, so at least there wouldn't be huge plane changes involved. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
At 05:42 PM Tuesday 11/17/2009, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 17 Nov 2009 at 12:48, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: starts here . . . The Best Invention of the Year: NASA's Ares Rockets The 50 Best Inventions of 2009 - TIME http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1934027_1934003_1933945,00.html http://tinyurl.com/yl4evjq (Includes the 5 Worst Inventions of the Year and a poll for voting on the ranking: Ares is not #1 in that poll.) The Ares I darn well should be. I mean, the Ares V is a good enough concept for bulk launch, never mind that the Saturn V was carrying arround 75% of the same payload in the late 60's, but sticking Astronaughts on top of a rocket at this stage? Insane. Spaceplanes, allready. AndrewC I'm guessing I wasn't clear and that you didn't go through the list at the site. The poll is for visitors to the site to rank the items in the 50 Best list. When I was there #1 was what they referred to as the Electric Eye, #2 was the 60W LED light bulb (no word on when they'll come out with one to replace 100W bulbs here at least 60W aren't bright enough to light up the room well enough from the ceiling fixture (even though the ceiling is painted white) or to read by), and bringing up the tail at #50 was the cloned puppy. Dog Gone Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:12 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 05:42 PM Tuesday 11/17/2009, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 17 Nov 2009 at 12:48, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: starts here . . . The Best Invention of the Year: NASA's Ares Rockets The 50 Best Inventions of 2009 - TIME http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1934027_1934003_1933945,00.html http://tinyurl.com/yl4evjq (Includes the 5 Worst Inventions of the Year and a poll for voting on the ranking: Ares is not #1 in that poll.) The Ares I darn well should be. I mean, the Ares V is a good enough concept for bulk launch, never mind that the Saturn V was carrying arround 75% of the same payload in the late 60's, but sticking Astronaughts on top of a rocket at this stage? Insane. Spaceplanes, allready. AndrewC I'm guessing I wasn't clear and that you didn't go through the list at the site. The poll is for visitors to the site to rank the items in the 50 Best list. When I was there #1 was what they referred to as the Electric Eye, #2 was the 60W LED light bulb (no word on when they'll come out with one to replace 100W bulbs — here at least 60W aren't bright enough to light up the room well enough from the ceiling fixture (even though the ceiling is painted white) or to read by), and bringing up the tail at #50 was the cloned puppy. Dog Gone Maru . . . ronn! :) My main gripe about LED lighting is that, with the sole exception of IKEA, I think, everyone seems to love cool white LED's in lighting fixtures. I very much prefer warm white phosphor GaN LED's (or even yellow/orange GaAs LED's in some applications). I've just never been a big fan of that blue-white color balance, never liked it in fluorescent tubes and really don't like it in LED's. Of course, it seems like maybe the GaN types are mature enough now that people aren't as eager to show off the fact that they can get blue LED's. I've become very annoyed by that color, particularly the shorter-wavelength variety. Plus they have way too much power dissipation for some applications. :p HANK: A man came by from the Shiney Pines trailer park, and he said you still got a trailer there. LUANNE: No I don't, it tipped over. HANK: But it's still there. LUANNE: No, it tipped over! HANK: Luanne, let me try to explain. I have a beer can. I tip it over. Now, is it still there? LUANNE: I can't live in a beer can. I can live in a trailer, but I don't have a trailer because the trailer tipped over! ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
On Nov 17, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 17 Nov 2009 at 12:48, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: starts here . . . The Best Invention of the Year: NASA's Ares Rockets The 50 Best Inventions of 2009 - TIME http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1934027_1934003_1933945,00.html http://tinyurl.com/yl4evjq (Includes the 5 Worst Inventions of the Year and a poll for voting on the ranking: Ares is not #1 in that poll.) The Ares I darn well should be. I mean, the Ares V is a good enough concept for bulk launch, never mind that the Saturn V was carrying arround 75% of the same payload in the late 60's, but sticking Astronaughts on top of a rocket at this stage? Insane. Spaceplanes, allready. AndrewC Considering the fact that the only two loss of vehicle and crew events NASA has ever had to deal with that actually involved going into or coming back from space (not counting Apollo 1 in that, as it was sitting on the ground when the fire occurred) involved a spaceplane design -- one due to an SRB hull joint failure that burned through the ET wall, the other due to a large (and undetected) hole in the RCC leading edge of the wing -- and since the spaceplane design in question does *not* include any abort options from liftoff to the beginning of the RTLS window, and NASA is crossing their fingers that nobody ever has to try an RTLS abort, I'd have to question why putting crew on top of a rocket is insane. I'd much rather ride an Orion/Ares I than I would an STS flight. The Orion/Ares I has a launch escape system at least as good as the one used for Apollo, and has the SRB in the only place I'd really want one -- well aft of the liquid fuel tanks and the crew cabin. It may not be the *best* design, granted, but it's better than STS in a lot of ways. About the only thing Ares I/Ares V can't do is retrieve satellites and bring them back to earth. And I can't quite recall STS ever using that capability, honestly. Go ahead and do it, you can apologize later. -- RADM Grace Hopper, 1906-1992 The sunset is an illusion, but the beauty is real. -- Richard Bach ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
starts here . . . The Best Invention of the Year: NASA's Ares Rockets The 50 Best Inventions of 2009 - TIME http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1934027_1934003_1933945,00.html http://tinyurl.com/yl4evjq (Includes the 5 Worst Inventions of the Year and a poll for voting on the ranking: Ares is not #1 in that poll.) . . . ronn! :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
On 17 Nov 2009 at 12:48, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: starts here . . . The Best Invention of the Year: NASA's Ares Rockets The 50 Best Inventions of 2009 - TIME http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1934027_1934003_1933945,00.html http://tinyurl.com/yl4evjq (Includes the 5 Worst Inventions of the Year and a poll for voting on the ranking: Ares is not #1 in that poll.) The Ares I darn well should be. I mean, the Ares V is a good enough concept for bulk launch, never mind that the Saturn V was carrying arround 75% of the same payload in the late 60's, but sticking Astronaughts on top of a rocket at this stage? Insane. Spaceplanes, allready. AndrewC ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
Bruce Bostwick said the following on 8/22/2009 1:37 AM: On Aug 21, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Lance A. Brown wrote: Heh. I thought the list had just taken a deep breath. Instead it appears something has gone awry. I, too, am not receiving everything that is listed in the archive. --[Lance] .. there's an archive? :\ Uh. Yeah. Follow the link at the bottom of each message: http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com --[Lance] -- GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9 CACert.org Assurer ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
List administrators: list broken!
List administrators: It seems that many list emails are not being sent out to list members. They are showing up on the archive, but there are many that are not being emailed to me. I think Ronn may also be in a similar situation (judging from his re-posts). Although I did receive Chris's recent post, something about avatars. Judging from the recent decrease in volume, I wonder if this problem is widespread. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
Heh. I thought the list had just taken a deep breath. Instead it appears something has gone awry. I, too, am not receiving everything that is listed in the archive. --[Lance] -- GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9 CACert.org Assurer ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Lance A. Brownla...@bearcircle.net wrote: Heh. I thought the list had just taken a deep breath. Instead it appears something has gone awry. I, too, am not receiving everything that is listed in the archive. Maybe it is fixed now, at least for new posts? I received Chris's avatar post, and now I received your post. But for old posts, there are still quite a few in the archive that I did not receive by email. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
At 11:48 AM Friday 8/21/2009, John Williams wrote: List administrators: It seems that many list emails are not being sent out to list members. They are showing up on the archive, but there are many that are not being emailed to me. I think Ronn may also be in a similar situation (judging from his re-posts). I take it you saw both copies of those? I haven't seen either copy of any of them. Although I did receive Chris's recent post, something about avatars. Judging from the recent decrease in volume, I wonder if this problem is widespread. Personally, I've been busy with other things, including dealing with messages from one Yahoo! list after another I'm subscribed to also no longer coming through, apparently now including two lists I'm co-moderator of. Among other annoyances . . . . . . ronn! :-\ Anyone who works with @#*%$! computers for any length of time at all finds out why the little arrow on the screen is called a cursor . . . ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Ronn! Blankenshipronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net wrote: I take it you saw both copies of those? I haven't seen either copy of any of them. I only saw the second copy on the archive: http://mccmedia.com/pipermail/brin-l_mccmedia.com/Week-of-Mon-20090817/date.html But I did receive your email that I am replying to. So it looks like messages are being mailed out today. I wonder if the list administrators are reading this thread... Where are the we ? ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 2:09 PM, John Williams jwilliams4...@gmail.comwrote: I wonder if the list administrators are reading this thread... I am reading... and I'm not sure what's going on. The list lives at Bluehost these days, which has the virtue of being inexpensive, but frustrating to deal with. I'll see if I can figure out what's going on. Nick ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
At 04:30 PM Friday 8/21/2009, Nick Arnett wrote: On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 2:09 PM, John Williams jwilliams4...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if the list administrators are reading this thread... I am reading... and I'm not sure what's going on. The list lives at Bluehost these days, which has the virtue of being inexpensive, but frustrating to deal with. I'll see if I can figure out what's going on. Nick Well, though it is most probably of absolutely no significance to the problem observed on this list, it turns out that I am only not receiving mail from one of the two Yahoo! lists I am co-moderator of. (Plus an as-yet-undetermined number of those I am just an ordinary member of . . . ) . . . ronn! :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
And I am breaking the general rule about replying to yourself to note that the following message apparently went through and came back quickly with no problems . . . At 05:44 PM Friday 8/21/2009, you wrote: At 04:30 PM Friday 8/21/2009, Nick Arnett wrote: On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 2:09 PM, John Williams jwilliams4...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if the list administrators are reading this thread... I am reading... and I'm not sure what's going on. The list lives at Bluehost these days, which has the virtue of being inexpensive, but frustrating to deal with. I'll see if I can figure out what's going on. Nick Well, though it is most probably of absolutely no significance to the problem observed on this list, it turns out that I am only not receiving mail from one of the two Yahoo! lists I am co-moderator of. (Plus an as-yet-undetermined number of those I am just an ordinary member of . . . ) . . . ronn! :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com . . . ronn! ;) A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
John Williams wrote: ... I wonder if the list administrators are reading this thread... Where are the we ? Right here, as always. But we don't own the list. (I'm not sure passive/aggressive is the right word, but seriously, give it a rest...) ---David ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:15 PM, David Hobbyhob...@newpaltz.edu wrote: (I'm not sure passive/aggressive is the right word, but seriously, give it a rest...) One of us apparently has no sense of humor. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
John Williams wrote: On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:15 PM, David Hobbyhob...@newpaltz.edu wrote: (I'm not sure passive/aggressive is the right word, but seriously, give it a rest...) One of us apparently has no sense of humor. Because of course, it couldn't just have not been funny. : ) ---David ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:43 PM, David Hobbyhob...@newpaltz.edu wrote: John Williams wrote: On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:15 PM, David Hobbyhob...@newpaltz.edu wrote: (I'm not sure passive/aggressive is the right word, but seriously, give it a rest...) One of us apparently has no sense of humor. Because of course, it couldn't just have not been funny. : ) That would indicate that the one of us that has no sense of humor is me, would it not? Tough week? ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
John Williams wrote: On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:43 PM, David Hobbyhob...@newpaltz.edu wrote: John Williams wrote: On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:15 PM, David Hobbyhob...@newpaltz.edu wrote: (I'm not sure passive/aggressive is the right word, but seriously, give it a rest...) One of us apparently has no sense of humor. Because of course, it couldn't just have not been funny. : ) That would indicate that the one of us that has no sense of humor is me, would it not? Not necessarily, since many people use sense of humor to just talk about whether or not people get jokes. Tough week? Yes, but that's a separate issue. ---David ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List administrators: list broken!
On Aug 21, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Lance A. Brown wrote: Heh. I thought the list had just taken a deep breath. Instead it appears something has gone awry. I, too, am not receiving everything that is listed in the archive. --[Lance] .. there's an archive? :\ The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed and hence clamorous to be led to safety by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - H.L. MENCKEN ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Odd emails from Dan: list software trouble?
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:49 PM, dsummersmi...@comcast.netdsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote: This went just to john instead of the list twice. I'm not sure why. I just noticed something odd. You messages, that come through the list, have the Reply-to: set to both your own email address, and the list address. So when I hit reply, gmail sends a copy to the list as well as to your own address. Then, if you reply to the one that I sent you directly, it apparently goes to me only and not the list. I don't understand why your list emails have the dual Reply-to: addresses. None of the other emails I get through the list have that. Is the list software at mccmedia getting confused by something about the headers in your emails to the list? ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Archives: attention list management
Where can I find the list archives? Note also that typing Brin-L in Google returns: http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l Which produces a page No such list brin-l, which is not helpful if we want to recruit new members. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
uplift book list and talking points for some darn good arguments...
http://web.syr.edu/~blbousfi/UPLIFTEX22.html well.. I'm certainly no expert .. does anybody see volumes missing? ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
ADMIN: Mailing list limits
Those fine folks at Bluehost, where Brin-L presently is hosted, didn't bother to mention that there's a limit of 150 emails per hour... which one message on Brin-L will use up. They have raised the limit to 500 per hour, which still seems crazy low, but there you go. If messages don't seem to be getting through, please make sure I know. Nick ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Admin: Moving the list
As I mentioned in passing the other day, I'm planning to move everything off the server I operate at home and on to a hosted solution. Soon, I'll move the list to www.nickarnett.net, which is hosted at Bluehost. After I've done that and moved some other stuff there, I'll move the mccmedia.com domain name also. I'm trying to do this with as little list disruption as possible. But don't be surprised if you see activity related to the move. Sorry about the domain name switch, but I'll make that as painless as possible by forwarding the current list address to the new one until I take down the current server. The archives will be disrupted. I couldn't find a hosted solution (at a reasonable cost, anyway) that gives me access to the archive directories. That means there's no easy way to move the old archive to the new location. I'll probably start by just having two archives, split on the date that the list moves. But I'm working on some tools that should improve the archive in other ways while consolidating it. I now have all of the current archived messages in a database... and I'm going to dig up older archives from my, er, archives and add them. Thus, we'll end up with a more complete archive -- and a way I can run a lot more statistics, which might be fun, at least. I was hoping to find an open-source discussion platform that would allow me to easily import the archived messages, so that we would have the benefits of a mailing list and web forums... haven't found such a thing yet. I considered using a wiki for that purpose and still might go that route. Your suggestions are welcome, of course. By the way, one benefit of the move should be higher availability. Things have been stable lately, but we are susceptible to power and network outages in ways that a hosted solution shouldn't be. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Admin: Moving the list
From: Nick Arnett narn...@mccmedia.com I was hoping to find an open-source discussion platform that would allow me to easily import the archived messages, so that we would have the benefits of a mailing list and web forums... haven't found such a thing yet. I considered using a wiki for that purpose and still might go that route. Your suggestions are welcome, of course. Hi Nick, if you do decide to go the wiki route, you should try www.wikidot.com I've been using it for a few months. It is a really good host and it you get 5 x 300MB sites for free. Regards, Wayne Eddy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Admin: Moving the list
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Wayne Eddy we...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Hi Nick, if you do decide to go the wiki route, you should try www.wikidot.com I've been using it for a few months. It is a really good host and it you get 5 x 300MB sites for free. I'm happy with Bluehost (except for the lack of back-end access to Mailman archives)... the issue is more to do with which technology to use for archiving. They offer several kinds of wikis... I was tempted by MoinMoin because it is Python-based. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Admin: Moving the list
Original Message: - From: Nick Arnett narn...@mccmedia.com Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:59:01 -0800 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Admin: Moving the list I'm happy with Bluehost (except for the lack of back-end access to Mailman archives)... the issue is more to do with which technology to use for archiving. They offer several kinds of wikis... I was tempted by MoinMoin because it is Python-based. Which allows you to run the list while showing your computer the full Monty? Dan M. mail2web.com What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 05:42 PM Wednesday 10/22/2008, Bruce Bostwick wrote: On Oct 22, 2008, at 5:33 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: One problem is that compared to an e-mail list like this, most of the web-based communities have too rigid a structure, while this is much like an informal conversation where one person says something and then someone else responds, etc., and there may be different individual conversations going on between subsets of the group at the same time, etc. And too rigid a structure can be a community-killer, as I've seen happen more than once over more than 25 years. Online communities that rely on the technology to structure the communication too tightly, as well as the ones that are very strict on enforcing topicality, tend to have low populations, and going from less structure to more structure or radically altering the technology base of the community can trigger population crashes as people are driven off by the hassle factor. The e-list format does very much resemble a conversation, as well as some degree of cross-pollination between conversation threads, and the blog format can sometimes isolate the topical threads *too* much. That was the objection on the other list, including the fact that a small group would choose the topics of the various blog threads and approve all responses. (The e-mail list was and is moderated, but as it happens many of those who had been on the list for 10 years or better had also known each other in RL beginning as much as 25 or more years ago, while those who were going to be in charge of the blog system were by comparison relative newcomers. (Yeah, it's complicated, and I'm trying to avoid compromising some peoples' privacy by not going into all of the specifics . . . )) Also, as someone has mentioned, many people prefer having the messages come to them (as on a list like this) rather than them having to remember to look somewhere else for them . . . Now, this isn't necessarily a problem if you set the RSS feed up right. (I follow several online communities from my mail client, which can import RSS feeds along with mail accounts. Which mail client would that be, if you don't mind saying? Using Mozilla Thunderbird here, for the same purposes. And actually, I'm following the list on gmane, with the NNTP/news interface, so as not to clobber my inbox. I love gmane (http://gmane.org). /c ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
- Original Message - From: Kevin B. O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: Re: Future of the list / Questions? I've been through this a few times, and my experience is that moving to a web-type forum generally means the end of the community. Sometimes I think that is the intention (I'm getting too much e-mail, how can we cut it down?). I have a quote in my sig file that goes A university is what a college becomes when it stops caring about its students. I think a corollary should be that a web forum is what a discussion list becomes when people stop caring about the conversation. Regards, -- Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL Somebody mentioned a while ago that there are currently two Brin Lists, three if you count David's blog. Was an argument about the list's format the reason for the split? I had a look at the site for the other list yesterday and I note that the volume of posts there is pretty light compared to here. William you are member of both, and you plug the weekly chat forum is that a fourth Brin List? Is binary fission the answer to list longevity I wonder? If there were 20 Brin Lists each claiming to be the original, you might imagine that at least one would find the right formula and continue on into the distant future. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Wayne Eddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Somebody mentioned a while ago that there are currently two Brin Lists, three if you count David's blog. Was an argument about the list's format the reason for the split? I had a look at the site for the other list yesterday and I note that the volume of posts there is pretty light compared to here. The other list was started by a person who was so disruptive, including trying to hack into my server, that he was banned from the list. He is the only person we have banned, as far as I know (other than some spammers who tried to post right after joining). I can't even think of anybody else we have ever put on moderation (although all new users are automatically moderated until we feel confident that they are not just spammers and such). I'm not sure exactly what David B.'s attitude is toward the other list, but he is subscribed, albeit filtered, to this one. David only sees messages whose subject starts Brin:. William you are member of both, and you plug the weekly chat forum is that a fourth Brin List? A chat isn't a list and vice versa. Is binary fission the answer to list longevity I wonder? If there were 20 Brin Lists each claiming to be the original, you might imagine that at least one would find the right formula and continue on into the distant future. This one has been around far longer than any other. Its future rests mostly in the hands of the participants. My attitude has always been to err on the side of letting the community regulate itself. Now if I could just get PHP to work properly on the serve, I'd be most of the way to getting the blog mirror working. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
On 23 Oct 2008, at 20:40, Wayne Eddy wrote: Somebody mentioned a while ago that there are currently two Brin Lists, three if you count David's blog. Was an argument about the list's format the reason for the split? I had a look at the site for the other list yesterday and I note that the volume of posts there is pretty light compared to here. There was argument involved, but not about the list format. William you are member of both, and you plug the weekly chat forum is that a fourth Brin List? The chat is a complementary forum that has coexisted with the email lists since the original list was hosted at Cornell. I volunteered to take over running it a few years ago when the original computer service became unavailable. Is binary fission the answer to list longevity I wonder? If there were 20 Brin Lists each claiming to be the original, you might imagine that at least one would find the right formula and continue on into the distant future. This is the 'original' Brin List in the sense that it is the direct successor to the original Cornell list. Identity Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Theists cannot be trusted as they believe that right and wrong are the arbitrary proclamations of invisible demons. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
Nick Arnett wrote: I'm not sure exactly what David B.'s attitude is toward the other list, but he is subscribed, albeit filtered, to this one. David only sees messages whose subject starts Brin:. Not counting times when He uses a sock puppet just to see if we are still worshipping Him in His absence :-))) Alberto the paranoid ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
On Oct 21, 2008, at 1:46 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Wayne Eddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should it move to a newer type of platform? Facebook or a wiki maybe? Does the list have a life of its own? Does it somehow attract the type of member that will enable it live forever? Are monotonous posts and trolls and heated discussions the way it has found to survive? I hate to pre-announce... but I'm working on installing a blog interface. I also hope to mirror that blog to another server, as backup. As long as the email interface persists, please. I like the fact that it comes to me, rather than my having one more place to go to check out the goings-on. Several communities of which I've been a part have threatened to go all-web (for various reasons) and the practically universal response has been but keep the emails coming. Which puts me a bit at odds with my employer, probably, since we make our living by running web-based communities. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Dave Land wrote: On Oct 21, 2008, at 1:46 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Wayne Eddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should it move to a newer type of platform? Facebook or a wiki maybe? Does the list have a life of its own? Does it somehow attract the type of member that will enable it live forever? Are monotonous posts and trolls and heated discussions the way it has found to survive? I hate to pre-announce... but I'm working on installing a blog interface. I also hope to mirror that blog to another server, as backup. As long as the email interface persists, please. I like the fact that it comes to me, rather than my having one more place to go to check out the goings-on. Several communities of which I've been a part have threatened to go all-web (for various reasons) and the practically universal response has been but keep the emails coming. I suspect that's why there's been such little move to go set up web forums in one of my RL communities. I mean, who wants to deal with that when you can just sit there and hope that Julia sets up a Yahoo group for it? :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
At 01:01 AM Wednesday 10/22/2008, Dave Land wrote: On Oct 21, 2008, at 1:46 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Wayne Eddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should it move to a newer type of platform? Facebook or a wiki maybe? Does the list have a life of its own? Does it somehow attract the type of member that will enable it live forever? Are monotonous posts and trolls and heated discussions the way it has found to survive? I hate to pre-announce... but I'm working on installing a blog interface. I also hope to mirror that blog to another server, as backup. As long as the email interface persists, please. I like the fact that it comes to me, rather than my having one more place to go to check out the goings-on. Several communities of which I've been a part have threatened to go all-web (for various reasons) and the practically universal response has been but keep the emails coming. This happened a few months ago on another list I am on. The list owners presented it as a done deal that the e-mail list would be terminated and replaced by a blog-type forum run by the officers of the organization on such-and-such a date. (IIRC less than two weeks after the first mention of it to list members.) After many people stated that they preferred the e-mail list, and were told No, and long time members of the list made their good-byes, those in charge changed their minds and re-started the e-mail list. Which puts me a bit at odds with my employer, probably, since we make our living by running web-based communities. One problem is that compared to an e-mail list like this, most of the web-based communities have too rigid a structure, while this is much like an informal conversation where one person says something and then someone else responds, etc., and there may be different individual conversations going on between subsets of the group at the same time, etc. Also, as someone has mentioned, many people prefer having the messages come to them (as on a list like this) rather than them having to remember to look somewhere else for them . . . . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
On Oct 22, 2008, at 5:33 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: One problem is that compared to an e-mail list like this, most of the web-based communities have too rigid a structure, while this is much like an informal conversation where one person says something and then someone else responds, etc., and there may be different individual conversations going on between subsets of the group at the same time, etc. And too rigid a structure can be a community-killer, as I've seen happen more than once over more than 25 years. Online communities that rely on the technology to structure the communication too tightly, as well as the ones that are very strict on enforcing topicality, tend to have low populations, and going from less structure to more structure or radically altering the technology base of the community can trigger population crashes as people are driven off by the hassle factor. The e-list format does very much resemble a conversation, as well as some degree of cross-pollination between conversation threads, and the blog format can sometimes isolate the topical threads *too* much. Also, as someone has mentioned, many people prefer having the messages come to them (as on a list like this) rather than them having to remember to look somewhere else for them . . . Now, this isn't necessarily a problem if you set the RSS feed up right. (I follow several online communities from my mail client, which can import RSS feeds along with mail accounts. Getting xkcd in my morning email is a delightful thing to wake up to. :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Bruce Bostwick wrote: On Oct 22, 2008, at 5:33 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: Also, as someone has mentioned, many people prefer having the messages come to them (as on a list like this) rather than them having to remember to look somewhere else for them . . . Now, this isn't necessarily a problem if you set the RSS feed up right. (I follow several online communities from my mail client, which can import RSS feeds along with mail accounts. Getting xkcd in my morning email is a delightful thing to wake up to. :) I'm getting new entries for one blog e-mailed to me. I usually click on the link to take me to the blog site because it's prettier than the e-mail, and if anyone's left a comment, that's how I'll see it, but if I didn't care about the aesthetics or comments, I could just read the e-mails and leave it at that. (The folks running that particular blog did *not* want an LJ syndication set up for it, and once I looked at the website and found out I could get new entries e-mailed to me, I signed up for that, so I'm still in my only one site to check for everything not in e-mail state.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
At 05:42 PM Wednesday 10/22/2008, Bruce Bostwick wrote: On Oct 22, 2008, at 5:33 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: One problem is that compared to an e-mail list like this, most of the web-based communities have too rigid a structure, while this is much like an informal conversation where one person says something and then someone else responds, etc., and there may be different individual conversations going on between subsets of the group at the same time, etc. And too rigid a structure can be a community-killer, as I've seen happen more than once over more than 25 years. Online communities that rely on the technology to structure the communication too tightly, as well as the ones that are very strict on enforcing topicality, tend to have low populations, and going from less structure to more structure or radically altering the technology base of the community can trigger population crashes as people are driven off by the hassle factor. The e-list format does very much resemble a conversation, as well as some degree of cross-pollination between conversation threads, and the blog format can sometimes isolate the topical threads *too* much. That was the objection on the other list, including the fact that a small group would choose the topics of the various blog threads and approve all responses. (The e-mail list was and is moderated, but as it happens many of those who had been on the list for 10 years or better had also known each other in RL beginning as much as 25 or more years ago, while those who were going to be in charge of the blog system were by comparison relative newcomers. (Yeah, it's complicated, and I'm trying to avoid compromising some peoples' privacy by not going into all of the specifics . . . )) Also, as someone has mentioned, many people prefer having the messages come to them (as on a list like this) rather than them having to remember to look somewhere else for them . . . Now, this isn't necessarily a problem if you set the RSS feed up right. (I follow several online communities from my mail client, which can import RSS feeds along with mail accounts. Which mail client would that be, if you don't mind saying? . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
On Oct 22, 2008, at 7:04 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: Also, as someone has mentioned, many people prefer having the messages come to them (as on a list like this) rather than them having to remember to look somewhere else for them . . . Now, this isn't necessarily a problem if you set the RSS feed up right. (I follow several online communities from my mail client, which can import RSS feeds along with mail accounts. Which mail client would that be, if you don't mind saying? . . . ronn! :) Apple Mail. (I'm very much a Mac person, currently considering expanding into Linux for home server and possibly CNC machine controller applications, but for my personal machine, OS X only.) :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
Julia Thompson wrote: I'm getting new entries for one blog e-mailed to me. I usually click on the link to take me to the blog site because it's prettier than the e-mail, and if anyone's left a comment, that's how I'll see it, but if I didn't care about the aesthetics or comments, I could just read the e-mails and leave it at that. (The folks running that particular blog did *not* want an LJ syndication set up for it, and once I looked at the website and found out I could get new entries e-mailed to me, I signed up for that, so I'm still in my only one site to check for everything not in e-mail state.) I've been through this a few times, and my experience is that moving to a web-type forum generally means the end of the community. Sometimes I think that is the intention (I'm getting too much e-mail, how can we cut it down?). I have a quote in my sig file that goes A university is what a college becomes when it stops caring about its students. I think a corollary should be that a web forum is what a discussion list becomes when people stop caring about the conversation. Regards, -- Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux User #333216 Paid for by the Tirebiter for Political Solutions Committee, Sector R. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Future of the list / Questions?
Has anyone thought much about the future list? What it will be or should be like in 5, 10, 20, 50 or 100 years time? Are people joining leaving at an accelerating, decelerating or constant rate? Is its demographic changing over time? Has its purpose changed over time? Should its purpose be restated? (I haven't noted a lot of Discussion about the Killer B's or Vernor Vinge since I joined.) Should it move to a newer type of platform? Facebook or a wiki maybe? Does the list have a life of its own? Does it somehow attract the type of member that will enable it live forever? Are monotonous posts and trolls and heated discussions the way it has found to survive? Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Wayne Eddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should it move to a newer type of platform? Facebook or a wiki maybe? Does the list have a life of its own? Does it somehow attract the type of member that will enable it live forever? Are monotonous posts and trolls and heated discussions the way it has found to survive? I hate to pre-announce... but I'm working on installing a blog interface. I also hope to mirror that blog to another server, as backup. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
On Oct 21, 2008, at 3:36 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote: Has anyone thought much about the future list? What it will be or should be like in 5, 10, 20, 50 or 100 years time? Are people joining leaving at an accelerating, decelerating or constant rate? Is its demographic changing over time? Has its purpose changed over time? Should its purpose be restated? (I haven't noted a lot of Discussion about the Killer B's or Vernor Vinge since I joined.) Should it move to a newer type of platform? Facebook or a wiki maybe? Does the list have a life of its own? Does it somehow attract the type of member that will enable it live forever? Are monotonous posts and trolls and heated discussions the way it has found to survive? Regards, Wayne Eddy There's an interesting sort of social dynamic to successful online forums that seems to have been fairly constant since the dialup BBS days -- I notice a lot of commonalities between an unusually successful local BBS I used to frequent back in the dialup days, and many modern social-networking communities and e-lists like this one. Based on that, I think the medium the forum resides in is only a superficial aspect of the community -- focus on the people, and on bringing in people who are both the kind of people you want to attract and, to some extent, the people who attract others of that type as well, and most of the other problems solve themselves. It may just be the fact that I've lived close to Internet-related technology for a lot longer than most people, but I've never seen the technology itself as a raison d'etre for an online community. The technology facilitates communication, but never perfectly, and never in such a way that there isn't room for improvement. Email is a good medium for writers -- the one population not particularly vulnerable to email's known limitation of filtering out nonverbal communication cues that keep offhand humorous quips from being treated as hideous insults and mortal threats -- and literate readers, whom I tend to think of as just extremely non-prolific writers in disguise. But there are other media that would work equally well. (Facebook probably isn't one of them, from my experiences with it, as it tends to provide a sort of canned sociality that facilitates social activity between people who have difficulty navigating both the technology and the social conventions, but tends to get in the way of more meaningful social interaction by reducing it to a sort of video game. Same complaints about Myspace, never liked either of them much. LiveJournal stays out of the way somewhat more, and as a matter of fact, at least two of my favorite communities are LJ communities, but again, it's only a medium, not the message.) LiveJournal does provide an article/comments structure that e-list communities handle more in terms of email threads (and some mail reader clients don't handle those as well as others, and sometimes servers regurgitate old posts, etc.), so that might be a good model to look at in terms of better supporting the *style* of communication the community prefers, but still, people first, technology as needed to support the people. IMHO, trolling and monotonous posting are self-limiting problems. I've dealt with them in e-list communities in which I've been a mod or owner, and while new members may be more inclined to feed trolls and pour fuel on flame wars, for the most part, these are behaviors that mature community members eventually learn to help control, if by no other means than ignoring the posts/comments that tend to generate more heat than light. Media that provide more tools for depriving a flame war of fuel (like placing the more intemperate commenters on temporary moderated status, etc.) can help somewhat in that respect, but can also make it hard to strike the delicate balance between moderation, facilitation, and censorship. I'd rather live with the signal/noise ratio and decide for myself what's signal and what's noise than have someone try to protect my delicate little ears/eyes .. the latter is often a hallmark of *unsuccessful* online communities, and tends to kill successful ones too when it's over-applied. That's for starters. I've thought about this for at least 25 years, so there's a lot more in my head that hasn't bobbed to the surface yet .. :D ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
- Original Message - From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 6:46 AM Subject: Re: Future of the list / Questions? I hate to pre-announce... but I'm working on installing a blog interface. I also hope to mirror that blog to another server, as backup. Nick Good idea. William can do a blog on 'Why Religion is Evil'. John can do a blog about 'Why Interference in the Free Market is Evil' etc, etc. and list members can read up on the topics they are interested in as they desire. Should make everyone happy. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
On Oct 21, 2008, at 4:07 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote: I hate to pre-announce... but I'm working on installing a blog interface. I also hope to mirror that blog to another server, as backup. Nick Good idea. William can do a blog on 'Why Religion is Evil'. John can do a blog about 'Why Interference in the Free Market is Evil' etc, etc. and list members can read up on the topics they are interested in as they desire. Should make everyone happy. Regards, Wayne. Can even make them sticky, so people who want to discuss those subjects can find the current discussion easily. :) - (also believes religion is evil, but for possibly much more personal reasons) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
At 04:07 PM Tuesday 10/21/2008, Wayne Eddy wrote: - Original Message - From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 6:46 AM Subject: Re: Future of the list / Questions? I hate to pre-announce... but I'm working on installing a blog interface. I also hope to mirror that blog to another server, as backup. Nick Good idea. William can do a blog on 'Why Religion is Evil'. John can do a blog about 'Why Interference in the Free Market is Evil' etc, etc. and list members can read up on the topics they are interested in as they desire. While the rest of us can continue with the regular list here. . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
On 21 Oct 2008, at 21:58, Bruce Bostwick wrote: There's an interesting sort of social dynamic to successful online forums that seems to have been fairly constant since the dialup BBS days -- I notice a lot of commonalities between an unusually successful local BBS I used to frequent back in the dialup days, and many modern social-networking communities and e-lists like this one. Based on that, I think the medium the forum resides in is only a superficial aspect of the community -- focus on the people, and on bringing in people who are both the kind of people you want to attract and, to some extent, the people who attract others of that type as well, and most of the other problems solve themselves. I think the technology does shape the community. Slashdot and Digg are the way they are because of the peer-review algorithms they use. Wikipedia has its problems because of the way the hierarchy of moderation is organised. The way all these forums have been played and abused and the way those running them have tweaked the algorithms and organisation to counter that and been re-countered in return show that there is no simple way of building a general forum for ideas and debate. It may just be the fact that I've lived close to Internet-related technology for a lot longer than most people, but I've never seen the technology itself as a raison d'etre for an online community. The technology facilitates communication, but never perfectly, and never in such a way that there isn't room for improvement. Email is a good medium for writers -- the one population not particularly vulnerable to email's known limitation of filtering out nonverbal communication cues that keep offhand humorous quips from being treated as hideous insults and mortal threats -- and literate readers, whom I tend to think of as just extremely non-prolific writers in disguise. But there are other media that would work equally well. (Facebook probably isn't one of them, from my experiences with it, as it tends to provide a sort of canned sociality that facilitates social activity between people who have difficulty navigating both the technology and the social conventions, but tends to get in the way of more meaningful social interaction by reducing it to a sort of video game. Same complaints about Myspace, never liked either of them much. LiveJournal stays out of the way somewhat more, and as a matter of fact, at least two of my favorite communities are LJ communities, but again, it's only a medium, not the message.) LiveJournal does provide an article/comments structure that e-list communities handle more in terms of email threads (and some mail reader clients don't handle those as well as others, and sometimes servers regurgitate old posts, etc.), so that might be a good model to look at in terms of better supporting the *style* of communication the community prefers, but still, people first, technology as needed to support the people. An email list represents the bazaar model of idea exchange. One can simply ignore threads of discourse one isn't interested in and killfile those that are irrelevant or pointless. Any more complicated model with ratings, peer trust networks, relevancy association or whatnot is placing faith in the idea someone else's algorithm can sort interesting from bullshit better than oneself. IMHO, trolling and monotonous posting are self-limiting problems. I've dealt with them in e-list communities in which I've been a mod or owner, and while new members may be more inclined to feed trolls and pour fuel on flame wars, for the most part, these are behaviors that mature community members eventually learn to help control, if by no other means than ignoring the posts/comments that tend to generate more heat than light. Media that provide more tools for depriving a flame war of fuel (like placing the more intemperate commenters on temporary moderated status, etc.) can help somewhat in that respect, but can also make it hard to strike the delicate balance between moderation, facilitation, and censorship. I'd rather live with the signal/noise ratio and decide for myself what's signal and what's noise than have someone try to protect my delicate little ears/eyes .. the latter is often a hallmark of *unsuccessful* online communities, and tends to kill successful ones too when it's over-applied. The problem is avoiding communities that crystallise around a world- view and become isolated by filtering out all dissenting voices. Opinion Maru The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. - Albert Einstein -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ ___ http
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, William T Goodall wrote: An email list represents the bazaar model of idea exchange. One can simply ignore threads of discourse one isn't interested in and killfile those that are irrelevant or pointless. Any more complicated model with ratings, peer trust networks, relevancy association or whatnot is placing faith in the idea someone else's algorithm can sort interesting from bullshit better than oneself. And this is what I like about mailing lists. I tend to read every. single. post (so I'm not subscribed to as many lists as I *might* be), especially the ones I'm a moderator for (and one of the others is deathly dull, but I have to keep an eye out for anything illegal, which has been a problem once or twice), but also for the others. Eventually I work out how much weight to give a particular poster on a particular subject, and have the values for that in my head. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
SF List
A prozine doesn't exist outside of the Hugo Awards but yes, they are considered prozines by the award. I'm not sure about SF Review actually since it is a website. By prozine or any other publication I assumed you just meant any publication because I'm not sure what is special in terms of reviews about the prozines. (sic) I would suggest you make use of the resource in front of you: a list full of SF fans. I'm sure they can recommend some hard SF for you. Have you read Egan? Which hard SF authors do you like? Martin Hard SF is a mis-nomer; perhaps I should say cutting edge, high tech, near future, speculative fiction? There is no new SF in my library by Greg Egan, and some of his older novels have been stolen. This is even a bigger problem with Fantasy novels, but that is not my concern. Here is an incomplete reading list I compiled of some of my favorite novels (not all SF). I also enjoy post apocalyptic, and alt history novels. Please add your favorite authors, novels and websites: http://www.sfreviews.com/ http://www.literature-map.com/ Jon Mann Piers Anthony - Macroscope* Iian Banks - Inversions, Consider Phlebas, The Player of Games Michael Bishop - Count Geiger's Blues Terry Bisson, Fire on the Mountain, Bears Discover Fire** Lois McMcaster Bujold - Falling Free Octavia Butler - Mind of My Mind, Clay's Ark, Patternmaster, Wild Seed**, Parable of the Sower Orson Scott Card - Ender* (series) Samuel Delany - Dhalgren Charles De Lint - Trader*, Little Country Philip Jose Farmer - River World** (series)The Fabulous Riverboat* Kathleen Anne Goonan - Queen City Jazz* (trilogy) Robert Heinlein* - Stranger in a Strange Land**, Moon is a Harsh Mistress*, Double Star* Hermann Hesse - Magister Ludi**, Narcissus and Goldman* Daniel Keyes - Flowers for Algernon* Donald Kingsbury - Courtship Rites* Jack McDervitt - Infinity Beach China Mayville - Perdido Street Station Pat Murphy - The City Not Long After* Alexi Panshin - Rite of Passage Marge Piercy - He She And It**, Woman on the Edge of Time H Beam Piper - Little Fuzzy* Robert Reed - An Exaltation of Larks Mike Resnick - Kirinyaga Rudy Rucker - The Hollow Earth, etc. Tim Robbins - Jitterbug Perfume*, Even Cowgirls Get the Blues*, Another Roadside Attraction** Joanna Russ - The Female Man Melissa Scott - Shadow Man Dan Simmons - Hyperion (series) Cordwainer Smith, The Rediscovery of Man (series) Neal Stephenson - Snow Crash**, Cryptonomicon* Sherri Tepper - Gibbons Decline and Fall**, The Gate to Woman's Country John Varley - Persistence of Memory*. Vernor Vinge - A Deepness in the Sky* (trilogy) Chelsa Quinn Yarbro - False Dawn* Robert Charles Wilson - Harvest SF Fandon: Bimbos of the Death Star Zombies of the Gene Pool Non-Fiction Roger McBride Allen - Orphan of Creation Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene, The God Delusion Stephan J Gould - Panda's Thumb Oliver Sacks - Anthropologists on Mar Author addendum: Doug Adams, Brian Aldiss, Poul Anderson, Kage BAKER, JG Ballard, Steve Barnes, Stephen Barrett, Stephen BAXTER, Greg Bear, Gregory Benford, Alfred Bester, James Blaylock, Ben Bova, John BRUNNER, Steven Brust, Algis Budrys, Jack Dann, Philip K DICK, Tom Disch, Greg Egan, Robert Forward, Wm GIBSON, Joe Jack HALDEMAN, Peter Hamilton, James Hogan, Henry Kuttner, RA Lafferty, Ursula LeGuin, Ian MacDonald, Vonda McIntyre, Geo RR Martin, Larry Niven, Frederick Pohl, Jerry Pournelle, Tim Powers, Alastair REYNOLDS, Stanley Robinson, Spider Robinson, Pam Sargeant, Robert Sawyer, Chas Sheffield, Lewis Shiner, Lucius Shepard, Robert Silverberg, Clifford Simak, Bruce Sterling, SM STIRLING, Charles STROSS, Theodore STURGEON, Michael Swanick, Harry Turtledove, Jack Vance, Vernor VINGE, Connie WILLIS, et al... The Grandmasters Asimov, Bradbury and Clarke et al... References: The SF Encyclopedia, The Fantasy Encyclopedia by Peter Nicholls, John Clute Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SF List
At 02:27 PM Saturday 2/9/2008, jon louis mann wrote: Here is an incomplete reading list I compiled of some of my favorite novels (not all SF). I also enjoy post apocalyptic, and alt history novels. Please add your favorite authors, novels and websites: http://www.sfreviews.com/ http://www.literature-map.com/ Jon Mann Piers Anthony - Macroscope* Whatfor do the asterisks stand? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
SF List
What for do the asterisks stand? -- Ronn! :) no * is good, 1* is better 2** is great 3 *** is best. jlm Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Interesting list
http://www.economist.com/research/styleGuide/index.cfm?page=673903 This is a list of words that get misused a lot. Examples: Appraise means set a price on. Apprise means inform. Blooded means pedigreed or initiated. Bloodied means wounded. Collapse is not transitive. You may collapse, but you may not collapse something. Discreet means circumspect or prudent; discrete means separate or distinct. Remember that Questions are never indiscreet. Answers sometimes are. (Oscar Wilde) Effectively means with effect; if you mean in effect, say it.The matter was effectively dealt with on Friday means it was done well on Friday. The matter was, in effect, dealt with on Friday means it was more or less attended to on Friday. Effectively leaderless would do as a description of the demonstrators in East Germany in 1989 but not those in Tiananmen Square. The devaluation of the Slovak currency in 1993, described by some as an effective 8%, turned out to be a rather ineffective 8%. Flaunt means display; flout means disdain. If you flout this distinction, you will flaunt your ignorance. (And that's as much as I'm going to copy paste right now.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Interesting list
On Dec 19, 2007 6:26 AM, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.economist.com/research/styleGuide/index.cfm?page=673903 This is a list of words that get misused a lot. The Economist is a British publication, so the usages (and spelling) are not necessarily the same as we'd consider proper on this side of the pond. Around here, I don't think it is particularly uncomplimentary to say that a salesperson or company is aggressive. And we spell etiology without that silly extra 'a.' And a brokerage is and does over here. Etc. As for among and between, that one annoys me when people misuse it... and every time I have to use the BETWEEN operator in SQL, I'm slightly annoyed. In SQL, BETWEEN 1 AND 10 means 1 to 10 inclusive, even though the actual integers between 1 and 10 actually are 2 through 9. But I manage. I hate centered around, no matter how you spell center/centre. Back when integrated circuits were less common, I was frequently amused by the notion of discreet electronics. We could probably use more of them. I see disinterested misused more and more. Frankenstein was not a monster, but its creator. I think this is just pickiness about metaphor, which drives a lot of language. The word has come to mean the monster. At least over here. *Haver* means to *talk nonsense*, not *dither*,* swither *or *waver*. Haver? Swither? These are English words? My mother the English teacher despises the word hopefully. I'm not so bothered. Sometimes I use it just to see if she'll still correct me. Hopefully, some day she won't. A sad omission -- phase and faze. Every time I read that someone was phased (or unphased), I think Star Trek and its phasers. At least I think those were phasers, not fazers. Nick -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Interesting list
On 19 Dec 2007, at 15:46, Nick Arnett wrote: *Haver* means to *talk nonsense*, not *dither*,* swither *or *waver*. Haver? Swither? These are English words? They are in common use around here. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Two years from now, spam will be solved. - Bill Gates, 2004 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Interesting list
On Dec 19, 2007 8:48 AM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 19 Dec 2007, at 15:46, Nick Arnett wrote: *Haver* means to *talk nonsense*, not *dither*,* swither *or *waver*. Haver? Swither? These are English words? They are in common use around here. Concerning religion, undoubtedly ;-) Nick -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Two years from now, spam will be solved. - Bill Gates, 2004 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Interesting list
On 19 Dec 2007, at 17:15, Nick Arnett wrote: On Dec 19, 2007 8:48 AM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 19 Dec 2007, at 15:46, Nick Arnett wrote: *Haver* means to *talk nonsense*, not *dither*,* swither *or *waver*. Haver? Swither? These are English words? They are in common use around here. Concerning religion, undoubtedly ;-) I never swither about calling religious cant havering :) -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance - Steve Ballmer ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Interesting list
On Dec 19, 2007, at 10:29 AM, William T Goodall wrote: On 19 Dec 2007, at 17:15, Nick Arnett wrote: On Dec 19, 2007 8:48 AM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 19 Dec 2007, at 15:46, Nick Arnett wrote: *Haver* means to *talk nonsense*, not *dither*,* swither *or *waver*. Haver? Swither? These are English words? They are in common use around here. Concerning religion, undoubtedly ;-) I never swither about calling religious cant havering :) Indeed, not: you chunter on about it. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: culture list
jon louis mann wrote: i just tried to sign up and this was my reply: List server report: Unknown list server command: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Recipient: Culture List listserver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unknown list server command: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oh that? That's just how they keep us Brin-L riff-raff out. :-p Jim A Player of Maru ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
culture list
are you referring to ian banks? That's the one. Several people here are also members of the Culture list. thanks, doug, i just tried to sign up and this was my reply: List server report: Unknown list server command: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Recipient: Culture List listserver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unknown list server command: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~stefan/culture.html then i tried agains and rec'd this: Unable to deliver message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery failed for the following reason: Server 217.77.176.15[217.77.176.15] failed with: 550 5.7.1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Access not allowed Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
[ADMIN] List interruption
Had some network downtime for a while today... they think it's a physical problem on the line... trouble ticket is in. It's up now, but slow and we'll see what happens... Nick -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [ADMIN] List interruption
At 06:11 PM Friday 6/15/2007, Nick Arnett wrote: Had some network downtime for a while today... they think it's a physical problem on the line... trouble ticket is in. It's up now, but slow and we'll see what happens... Given the recent activity rate on the list, I doubt anyone noticed the downtime. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: HOW MANY LIST MEMBERS DOES IT TALE TO CHANGE A LIGHT BULB?
In a message dated 4/29/2007 2:33:14 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Per Judith Hanford: HOW MANY LIST MEMBERS DOES IT TALE TO CHANGE A LIGHT BULB? Would it not be better to potty train the light bulb so it never again needs to be changed? And just where do you find light bulb diapers? Viyehm ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: HOW MANY LIST MEMBERS DOES IT TALE TO CHANGE A LIGHT BULB?
Robert G. Seeberger wrote: Three to tell a funny story about their cat and a light bulb. That whole post was funny. This bit brings to mind a question: What is it with Internet people and cats? Growing up, I didn't know one kid who liked cats better than dogs, but a majority of my Internet friends have cats. I've never quite figured it out. Jim The truth about cats and dogs Maru ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
HOW MANY LIST MEMBERS DOES IT TALE TO CHANGE A LIGHT BULB?
Per Judith Hanford: HOW MANY LIST MEMBERS DOES IT TALE TO CHANGE A LIGHT BULB? One to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed. Fourteen to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. Seven to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. Seven more to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. Five to flame the spell checkers. Three to correct spelling/grammar flames. Six to argue over whether it's light bulb or lightbulb another six to condemn those six as stupid. Fifteen to claim experience in the lighting industry and give the correct spelling. Nineteen to post that this group is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a light bulb (or light bulb) forum. Eleven to defend the posting to the group saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this group. Thirty six to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty. Seven to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs. Four to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL. Three to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group. Thirteen to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add Me too. Five to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy. Four to say didn't we go through this already a short time ago? Thirteen to say do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs Three to tell a funny story about their cat and a light bulb. AND One group lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again. xponent Snopes List Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The list might be back up
This is a test... after a very long and difficult week. Details to follow if this works. Nick -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The list might be back up
Nick Arnett wrote: This is a test... after a very long and difficult week. Details to follow if this works. Nick BTW, sorry I couldn't respond sooner than I did. (The last 24 hours have been not so much fun, and when Dan is sufficiently better for this to be possible, I want to sleep 12 hours straight.) Glad you got things worked out. That's more than enough Christmas present for me today. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
[ADMIN] List interruption
A disk filled on the mail server... without any of the normal pages that notify me when this is approaching. I've taken care of the problem and now I'll try to figure out why I didn't get the notification. When you get this email, Brin-L is back in business. Nick -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
ADMIN: List glitch
A disk got away from me last night, it appears... and I was quite distracted by a failed fuel pump in my Subaru. But the disk is all better now and I think we're back up. I think I have enough parts around here to build a new, quieter, cooler, faster server... if I didn't have to reassemble the car, I think I'd be doing that. I don't really trust the drives that are in the server. They're from a Sun D-1000 and a couple or three of them have failed already. Meanwhile, I left every window in my car, plus the sunroof open... all my tools lying around it, everything that is normally in the truck (big EMS kit, tools, etc.) and the back seat out... and it RAINED. It NEVER rains here in the summer. Never. Oy. Nick -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The List
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: Has the list been down recently, or did everyone else leave their computers behind for a long Memorial Day weekend after seeing X-Men 3? Did the usual OC, MD trip myself. However, I did not see X3 before going. Absent Mr. Singer at the helm, I just don't have any desire to rush out to the multiplex to see it. I may catch it in a couple of weeks, if the mood strikes, but that's not certain. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The List
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: Has the list been down recently, or did everyone else leave their computers behind for a long Memorial Day weekend after seeing X-Men 3? (Personally, I did the latter at midnight Thursday and spent most of the subsequent time lying down with a couple of heating pads because everything from the top of my neck to my waist hurts whenever I move or breathe, but that's just me . . . ) Chronic Illness Sucks Maru I think at the time you sent that, I was eating extremely marinated grilled beef and waiting to get my upper chest decorated with henna. (And if anyone has 3rd ed. psionics book, maybe we can figure out which page the picture used as a model for it is on, for future reference. At least I *think* it was the psionics book, could have been something else. But it was 3rd ed. or 3.5, I'm sure of that much, anyway.) (Extremely marinated means sitting in the marinade in a well-iced cooler for over 96 hours. So very, very nice, IMO. I ate lots of beef and fruit.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The List
In a message dated 5/28/2006 8:50:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Did you stay for the coda, or did you wimp out with the majority of mindless Marveless minions who walked out when the credits started rolling? Well since I don't remember what I stayed for am not sure. Saw the hint for the future but don't know if that was before or after the credits. So what was it? PS - I really liked this one. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The List
In a message dated 5/29/2006 2:16:57 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Did you stay for the coda, or did you wimp out with the majority of mindless Marveless minions who walked out when the credits started rolling? Well since I don't remember what I stayed for am not sure. Saw the hint for the future but don't know if that was before or after the credits. So what was it? S P O I L E R Xavier is now in the body of that brain dead guy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The List
cool ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The List
Has the list been down recently, or did everyone else leave their computers behind for a long Memorial Day weekend after seeing X-Men 3? (Personally, I did the latter at midnight Thursday and spent most of the subsequent time lying down with a couple of heating pads because everything from the top of my neck to my waist hurts whenever I move or breathe, but that's just me . . . ) Chronic Illness Sucks Maru --Ronn! :) Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too? -- Red Skelton (Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The List
In a message dated 5/28/2006 5:36:05 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has the list been down recently, or did everyone else leave their computers behind for a long Memorial Day weekend after seeing X-Men 3? (Personally, I did the latter at midnight Thursday and spent most of the subsequent time lying down with a couple of heating pads because everything from the top of my neck to my waist hurts whenever I move or breathe, but that's just me . . . ) Did you stay for the coda, or did you wimp out with the majority of mindless Marveless minions who walked out when the credits started rolling? Vilyehm ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The List
At 07:40 PM Sunday 5/28/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 5/28/2006 5:36:05 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has the list been down recently, or did everyone else leave their computers behind for a long Memorial Day weekend after seeing X-Men 3? (Personally, I did the latter at midnight Thursday and spent most of the subsequent time lying down with a couple of heating pads because everything from the top of my neck to my waist hurts whenever I move or breathe, but that's just me . . . ) Did you stay for the coda, or did you wimp out with the majority of mindless Marveless minions who walked out when the credits started rolling? I _always_ stay for the credits, if for no other reason than to see if anyone I know had anything to do with the movie. (Occasionally the projectionist gets tired and cuts the credits off before they end, so I have to leave.) At this particular showing, I'm guessing 1/3 to 1/2 left at the beginning of the credits (aided no doubt by the lights coming up at that point) while some remained in their seats and others stood around shooting the breeze with the people they came with (only one group came in costume, though). Just before the credits ended, though, someone went Shh! loudly, so at least that one person had a clue what was coming . . . --Ronn! :) Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too? -- Red Skelton (Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
LSSU 2006 List of Banished Words
I ran across this on some obscure news page, and then after reading it, also saw it on ABCnews.com. You have to visit the webpage and read the short description to appreciate why some of these made it to the banished list. From the Banished Words history page... In order to gain the most media coverage possible, the Banishment List is released each year on New Year's Day. This is attributed to former newsman Rabe's knowledge of the press. New Year's Day is traditionally a slow news day. 2006 list... BREAKING NEWS - Once it stopped presses. Now it's a lower-intestinal condition brought about by eating dinner during newscasts. Now they have to interrupt my supper to tell me that Katie Holmes is pregnant. - Michael Raczko, Swanton, Ohio. DESIGNER BREED - Many nominators consider this a bastardization of dog breeding. It may be a good line to use on angry neighbors when an un-neutered dog escapes. When you mate a miniature schnauzer to a toy poodle, it's not a 'Schnoodle,' it's a mongrel. - George Bullerjahn, Bowling Green, Ohio. SURREAL HUNKER DOWN PERSON OF INTEREST COMMUNITY OF LEARNERS UP OR DOWN VOTE 97% FAT FREE FEMA FIRST-TIME CALLER PASS THE SAVINGS ON TO YOU! AN ACCIDENT THAT DIDN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN JUNK SCIENCE GIT-ER-DONE DAWG TALKING POINTS HOLIDAY TREE http://www.lssu.edu/banished/current.php __ ...speak your mind, even if your voice shakes... - Maggie Kuhn ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: LSSU 2006 List of Banished Words
- Original Message - From: Gary Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 10:53 AM Subject: LSSU 2006 List of Banished Words I ran across this on some obscure news page, and then after reading it, also saw it on ABCnews.com. You have to visit the webpage and read the short description to appreciate why some of these made it to the banished list. From the Banished Words history page... In order to gain the most media coverage possible, the Banishment List is released each year on New Year's Day. This is attributed to former newsman Rabe's knowledge of the press. New Year's Day is traditionally a slow news day. 2006 list... BREAKING NEWS - Once it stopped presses. Now it's a lower-intestinal condition brought about by eating dinner during newscasts. Now they have to interrupt my supper to tell me that Katie Holmes is pregnant. - Michael Raczko, Swanton, Ohio. DESIGNER BREED - Many nominators consider this a bastardization of dog breeding. It may be a good line to use on angry neighbors when an un-neutered dog escapes. When you mate a miniature schnauzer to a toy poodle, it's not a 'Schnoodle,' it's a mongrel. - George Bullerjahn, Bowling Green, Ohio. SURREAL HUNKER DOWN PERSON OF INTEREST COMMUNITY OF LEARNERS UP OR DOWN VOTE 97% FAT FREE FEMA FIRST-TIME CALLER PASS THE SAVINGS ON TO YOU! AN ACCIDENT THAT DIDN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN JUNK SCIENCE GIT-ER-DONE DAWG TALKING POINTS HOLIDAY TREE http://www.lssu.edu/banished/current.php Unfortunately, Git'R'Done isn't going away fast enough for me. The thing I hate most about Larry the Cable Guy is that he makes dumb-uninterested-hick-southerness appear to possess some sort of mantle of coolness. This, IMO, causes unsophisticates to further embrace the redneck ethic of stupidity worship as a virtue. And *that* is a little too close to Cut'N'Shoot, Texas for my taste. xponent Unlike Sgt. York Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
I wanna be on Bill O'reilly's Enemies List!
Bill O'reilly is a href = http://www.billoreilly.com/;Terrorist sympathizer/a and a a href = http://www.billoreilly.com/;Traitor/a. ~KeZiK + + 'Hope is the denial of reality. It is the carrot dangled before the draft horse to keep him plodding along in a vain attempt to reach it.' 'Are you saying we should just give up?' Tanis asked, irritably tossing the bark away. 'I'm saying we should remove the carrot and walk forward with our eyes open,' Raistlin answered. (Dragons of Autumn Twilight) + + ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: I wanna be on Bill O'reilly's Enemies List!
- Original Message - From: KZK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Brin-L brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 5:44 AM Subject: I wanna be on Bill O'reilly's Enemies List! Bill O'reilly is a href = http://www.billoreilly.com/;Terrorist sympathizer/a and a a href = http://www.billoreilly.com/;Traitor/a. http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/14/oreilly-mccarthyism/ A little easier to find G xponent The List Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Sony-BMG Rootkit CD List
Neighbors, For those of you trying to avoid Sony's attempt at hacking your computer, here's a blog that lists the 45-or-so CDs with the rootkit: http://www.idiotabroad.com/2005/11/cds-affected-by-the-sony-bmg-spyware/ http://makeashorterlink.com/?S18825A2C http://tinyurl.com/76mj3 Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Scouted]Time magazine has two links of list interest
On Sep 28, 2005, at 6:42 PM, Jim Sharkey wrote: and a picture of a real live giant squid http://www.time.com/time/pictured/0,23052,1110690,00.html As usual, Dave Barry's Blog has more to offer on the subject at hand: http://blogs.herald.com/dave_barrys_blog/2005/09/why_this_blog_l.html Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
[Scouted]Time magazine has two links of list interest
An interview of Joss Whedon (Serenity) and Neil Gaiman (Anansi Boys and Mirrormask) http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1109313,00.html and a picture of a real live giant squid http://www.time.com/time/pictured/0,23052,1110690,00.html Enjoy! Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
