Re: Question for Dutch members
On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:33:40 +1000, Russell Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, One of you has in the past chastised list members for referring to the Netherlands as Holland, and explained the difference. I am curious as to why the World Cup cricket team currently playing in Africa is playing as Holland (complete with really natty orange uniforms, eclipsed only by the Canadians for a bright uniform). Any explanation appreciated. The tiny Netherlands basically have a north south divide. Pretty much along the big rivers. The north is protestant, monarchist and loud. The south is catholic, papist and doesn't really very much care about patriotism or monarchy. The south has its base in farming and mining. The north has its base in commerce and government. In the north part of the country there are two provinces, North and South Holland. You could say that our monarchy and most of the commerce has it's base of operations there. Logically any representation of our country usually was and today mostly still is from the north. The Dutch calling themselves 'Hollanders' has it's roots in history (I believe somewhere in the 80 years war but I'd have to look that up if you really wanne know) but today it is technically very incorrect. It doesn't however bother anyone from the north very much. To southerners it is sort of an insult. It's a bit like foreigners calling an American a Yankee. I can imagine that not all Americans are too happy about that either. As for the orange... Our current monarch is from 'Het Huis van Oranje' (The House of Orange) so if anywhere in the world the (idiotic) patriotism of the Dutch is shown, it is done by dressing up in Orange (with red/white/blue attire) and a lot of (drunk) shouting 'HUP HOLLAND HUP'. You can however be pretty much asured that it will be Northerners doing that. People down south are more levelheaded and have more sense. grin Sonja GCU Care to guess which part of the country I grew up? grin ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for Dutch members
On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:39:03 -, Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sonja wrote: The Dutch calling themselves 'Hollanders' has it's roots in history (I believe somewhere in the 80 years war (...) Which war is that? A 50 year extension of the 30 Years War, or a 20 year truce in the 100 Years War? :-) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l The 80 years war was a revolt in the sixteenth century of the low lands against the Spanish. This war eventually lead to the Republik of the United Netherlands in the peace of Munster. Whne the war exactly started is not clear but it is said to be 1568. It ended with the peace of Munster in 1648. During the war there was however a 12 year cease fire during which there were no hostilities. A number of major events took place during this war among which the reformation, the Unie of Utrecht and the revolt against the Spanish King. It is the basis for our country (and also our monarchy b.t.w.) as it is today. If you are very interested I could attempt to find more information, but so far most I found is in Dutch. Sonja ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:45:36 -0600, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Germany has proportional representation. If there are two big parties, each with 47.5% of the legislature, then a party with 5% can claim a pretty high price to make one of the two parties the top dog. Not really. It is all a matter of give and take. One major advantage of this system is that it forces parties to work together and find compromises. But if no compromise can be reached a minority government is also a possibility and then there is the multi-party majority. In the past it has been shown that making the 5 percent hurdle can be a pretty big hindrance for parties to overcome. If they don't get at least 5 percent of all votes they are not represented. This makes for a very cleaned up form of representation and prevents nutter parties from being represented. I had to write a paper once on all the pros and cons I could come up with for different types of representations. It turns out that for all types of representation systems it is possible to come up with scenarios where the representation unfair in respect to the voting result. Actually neither of our current systems is good when you compare it to the direct representation like f.i. that of the ancient Athenians. Then again in ancient Athens only free _male_ citizens had a vote :o) Sonja ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 17:47:57 -, Andrew Crystall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 14 Mar 2003 at 16:02, S.V. van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:45:36 -0600, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had to write a paper once on all the pros and cons I could come up with for different types of representations. It turns out that for all types of representation systems it is possible to come up with scenarios where the representation unfair in respect to the voting result. Actually neither of our current systems is good when you compare it to the direct representation like f.i. that of the ancient Athenians. Then again in ancient Athens only free _male_ citizens had a vote :o) If you have it arround I'd love to read it. I just knew someone was going to ask me this. The reason I didn't offer is because it was some 15+ years ago, when I was still in high school. I did what all kids do best at that age. Be totally bored with anything remotely school and focus on being a teenager. I had to write the damn thing to pass my grade. You might say it was some extra curricular stuff. In hindsight I have to say it was probably meant well. The teach must have thought it might get me interested and able to pass the grade. Wrong, wrong and right. Although I got the information chisseled into my brain that way, the exercise also scarred me for life. I aced all the tests on the subject but I was never again even remotely interested in politics. grin For understandable reasons (besides it being in Dutch and for me pre-puter) I didn't keep it around. I do however recall some of the conclusions of it. I am currently pretty frustrated by the UK's First Past the Post system - at no time because of demographics (I've still voted, but...) has my vote counted (I've always supported the minority candidate, it seems. Because I don't like ANY of the three major parties, I vote on personalities of the individuals involved). Lemme see. I recall that this first pass the post system, has the advantage of not having any real minorities. Also there usually aren't major shifts in political colour unless something major upsetting happens within the country. I believe the worst part of the English system was that even if a large minority in the country is voting for one particular party, the spread over the country still makes it hard for that party to get through to the centre of power. But this also keeps the major decision making somewhat easier with large continuity, because there are no really small parties that have to be taken into consideration. In the Netherlands the smaller parties are represented proportionally, without the (German) threashhold of 5% (and you were correct about the reason for that threashold). In the Netherlands you can get really small parties, with itty bitty interests that can make any decision making process grind to a halt. Then again representation is rather fair and the possibility for reaching majorities is multiple. This makes dependences on minorities smaller then in the Geman system. It also keeps the decision making process dynamic, with lots of tradeoffs, compromise and negotiations. This makes for some rather good short time politics. Unfortunatly there is a big potential for shifts during elections which makes long term planning somewhat hair raising and more often then not re-re-re-re-..etc...-reversible. The German system is a mix of passing the post and the Dutch system. It has the advantage of being fairer then the English system while at the same time getting stability without fragmentation. It does however give small parties on occasion a lot of leverage. (Not in Dan's much quoted example however. The goals of some of the parties makes them natural enemies. The greens and the CDU/CSU would never go well together. SPD and greens form a somewhat more natural albeit forced alliance. They both have to work hard to keep the coalition going, which makes for good enough politics to keep them in power.) Sonja GCU I still hate politics. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:24:04 -0600, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 9:17 PM Subject: Re: Who is the sheriff? I appreciate your sincerity in this, but I'm curious as to why you think that while an extremely modest effort (about $40 spent per person in Afghanistan is as much as can be done) a massive effort will work in Iraq. It doesn't seem reasonable that a $200/per person (just under 6 billion/year) effort in Afghanistan will involve so much money the system couldn't handle it. I'm not sure but from all the coverage we got from within the country I didn't get the impression that the iraqi people are undeveloped. They have a great deal of oppresion from above to deal with but most of them are literate and educated rather well by our standards. Even women have the possibility to achieve a high grade of education. So I think that the state Afghanistan is in,in no way can be compared to the state Iraq is in (will be in after Hussein). My personal belief is that Afghanistan offers a much easier test case for a lot of things we could try in Iraq. I'll grant you that we will take more control initially in Iraq, but having experience working in a Moslem country should prove invaluable. So, that's my suggestion. I rather disagree. I think that when there'll be money again and a stable government is in place (with preferable most of the current infrastructure/borders left intact by any invading ... oops sorry liberating ;o) forces), Iraq will be able to take care of itself without much interference from the US. I do however think that keeping the pressure on high, while conducting further peacefull inspections is probably the best bet for improvement in the region. Then again I don't see how the US will be prevented from going for the price... oops I mean ... peace. :o) The thing that is scary is that the Kurds are used as pawns in this powerplay. If the US isn't carefull it'll be looking at the wrong end of the barrel it supplied to (former) allies. again. Sonja ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Commentary on French-bashing
On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 11:33:49 -0800, Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) For French fries: They're not particularly French. I think McDonald's just calls them fries without any additional adjective. Just call them fries, unless they're the superior steak fries, and call those *that*, and BTW, let me know where I can get steak fries. :) IIRC from culinary school, they're Belgian in origin The Belgians would be grossly insulted if they heard this. The Belgian fry is very different from the French fry. It is almost triple in diameter and made from pieces that are visibly irregular because they are supposed to be cut by hand from real potato. Also they aren't as dry because of the larger size. 2) For French toast: Someone on another mailing list told me that prior to one of the World Wars, it had been called German toast. I have done no research to verify; does anyone here know? And I think my response was, Why don't we just call it 'European toast'? It is a meal know under many different names. Each country (even each region has it's own name for this meal). The earliest recipe I can find is pain perdu or lost bread - but that doesn't mean its French by any real stretch; its kind of the peanut-butter jelly of its day, appearing in most every recipe book from the 1300's on. Wentel teefjes (rotating bitches ?! :o), you just have to be Dutch to make that one up), Verwend schnitje, Verwoentes Schnittchen (A Dutch dialect and a German version of Pampered slices) just to mention a few very different ones. Sonja ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Freedom Vanilla Ice Cream (was RE: Commentary on French-bashing)
On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:03:03 -0800, Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about this - historically speaking, french fries aren't French in origin. :D OK. I'll try again. I just figured something out. It's something of a language thingy. Frietes (Belgian/Dutch for fries) the fried patato stick dish, generally translates into English as French fries. However 'French' fries are translated literally to us 'Franse frietjes' which in our (and the Belgian) country are considered to be the very thin, long and crisp form of the same sort of fried patato stick meal. I can only guess that since the French quisine is known for it's daintyness the confusion probably has it's origin somewhere there. Wentel teefjes (rotating bitches ?! :o), you just have to be Dutch to make that one up), Verwend schnitje, Verwoentes Schnittchen (A Dutch dialect and a German version of Pampered slices) just to mention a few very different ones. M... any region variations in preperation or serving? The Germans use a fresh, hard kind of whitish like bread (any one wanne translate 'zuurdesem brood'?). The Dutch use one or two day old formerly soft white bread, the french use leftover baguette. They all use milk and egg to make the bread soft and nice again. Panfried and with suger they are the best kind of breakfast one can have. (My son disagrees, but I think that eventually he'll grow out of his to date much beloved liquid porridge breakfast) Sonja GCU What are Ham waffles? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Freedom Vanilla Ice Cream (was RE: Commentary on French-bashing)
On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:44:02 -0800, Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
-Original Message-
From: S.V. van Baardwijk-Holten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent:
Friday, March 14, 2003 02:18 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Freedom Vanilla Ice Cream (was RE: Commentary on French-
bashing)
GCU What are Ham waffles?
http://gourmet.org/images/waffle.jpg
..for what is often refered to as a Belgian Waffle. A Ham Waffle will
have bits of ham (and cheese) mixed into the batter before hand (I've
also seen them put on top, but thats just Wrong..)
Not to be difficult or anything but the Belgian waffles I know only have
crunchy pieces of sugar in them Haven't seen any of them with ham.
This is what I'd consider a Belgian waffle: ('Luikse wafel' to be more
accurate)
http://www.lotusbakeries.com/LW.htm
And for a mouth watering picture of the chocolate coated version:
http://www.lotusbakeries.com/LWChoc.htm
(I know I'm cruel) ;o)
But next go I have on making anything waffely I'll try making the hart
shaped waffles with ham in 'm. Might be a while though since _Jeroen's_ son
is currently trying to wreck the living room. So I urgently need to go
outside with him. For a change it is very nice sunny weather and almost
warm, although I very much realise that many of the listees might consider
11 deg C very chilly. I just hope that I'll be able to get our little
terror ( ;o) ) tired enough for a voluntary nap later on.
Sonja
GCU: Waffles pah! Anyone tried one of Magnum's seven sins icecream yet?
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: .... and now for something completely different
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 13:13:55 -0600, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: S.V. van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: Since I'm a bit tired of arguing the war, Iraq, Iran, the Middle East, bombs, politicians, speeches, the UN, the US and all the rest, here is something entirely different. I'm so totally proud of myself. list of wonderful achievements snipped That's great, Sonja! I don't know how it would work in your yard, or in your climate, or with your palate, but rosemary is a pretty and useful ornamental bush Yes it most definetly would. A few houses down the road someone has two wonderfull bushes of rosemary in their front yard. I'd like to plant something like them together with some lavender and some thyme in a herb stack. But since those are perennial (and also very expensive to get) they just have to wait until the new flower beds are in place. So that'll be next year. Btw, anybody got a suggestion for a large ornamental plant? (around 1 to 1.5 m in hight would be nice) I'm building one very big plant container (using 4 palettes for sides) and I need something to display in it. The plant should be able to tolerate sun/drought and to some extent frost with on my account minimum effort for frost protection. I'm thinking perhaps a small fruit tree/bush but those are a lot of work and need lots of water. Perhaps something with palm type leaves? Sonja ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: .... and now for something completely different
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 13:57:41 -0500, Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: S.V. van Baardwijk-Holten [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: and now for something completely different Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:41:55 +0100 Since I'm a bit tired of arguing the war, Iraq, Iran, the Middle East, bombs, politicians, speeches, the UN, the US and all the rest, here is something entirely different. Aye, and thank ye kindly for it. :) You're welcome Hurray for me. And you should be proud!!! Congratulations!!! :) Have Jeroen cook dinner! *grin* Somehow I don't feel that that is an option. He is still learning. Now since that made me feel soo good, I went and did some much needed gardening. Actually it was surprisingly easy going, except for again groan digging up lots of glass and bricks and stuff. How large a space are you clearing? I did a 30 foot x 6 foot (approx. 10 meters x 2 meters) strip along the back of my backyard a few years ago. It took days to prepare by hand, rake and shovel and I'd never seen so many stones in my life. :) But... it was perfect for growing tomatoes, carrots, onions, chives, mint, etc. Wel it was just a little under a meter wide by some 16 meters. But I could have nearly built a house with the stuff I dug up. Especially the pieces of glass are so very nasty. You cannot really use your hands to dig into the soil to clear something. Even the stones (and I really do mean half and whole bricks) need to be dug up all the way before you can touch them safely. So all needs to be done by raking and shovelling. Not very comfortable. But I managed with a minimum of cuts. Tell me'bout the carrots. Do I stand a chance? I put them in a shady place in verfy fine well drained soil. The seeds were placed on a long strip of paper, that you have to put in the ground. Apperently you don't need to thin the plants if you use this stuff instead of loose seeds. Sonja ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: .... and now for something completely different
On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:43:10 +0100, Jean-Marc Chaton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * S.V. van Baardwijk-Holten [Wed, 19/03/2003 at 21:41 +0100] Btw, anybody got a suggestion for a large ornamental plant? (around 1 to 1.5 m in hight would be nice) I'm building one very big plant container (using 4 palettes for sides) and I need something to display in it. The plant should be able to tolerate sun/drought and to some extent frost with on my account minimum effort for frost protection. I'm thinking perhaps a small fruit tree/bush but those are a lot of work and need lots of water. Perhaps something with palm type leaves? Hortensias are quite resistant and dispalys enormous purple to rose flowers depending on the soil acidity. Yes I thought about them. They look stunning. But unfortunatly they aren't very good for kids. Their sap can be a skin irritant. Sonja ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Something wonderful happened today...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:12:25 -0500, Matthew and Julie Bos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here name is: Anneka Marie Bos She's 6 pounds 4 ounces, Nineteen and a half inches long. Born at 1:32 on Thursday Mother and daughter are doing fine. Father is a nervous wreck. Already? Well then I can only wish you all the strength in the world, to get through the next 18 years... big grin I am going to sit down, have a beer, and try to figure out what's going on out there in the world... Same as always. Just go ahead and have loads of fun and enjoy that sweet addition to your family as much as you can. Congrats to y'all and all the best wishes. Sonja ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
