Re: [Care2002-developers] Framework?
Hi Claudio et al. «As I can see, as part of the project, is that we are talking over the same stuffs, still feb 2007» - Claudio No! You're wrong. We are talking about the same stuff since 2003. At least I am. Also, I disagree with this the way I understood it: «The problem with a Framework, as I see it, is that you will have to do it all, i.e create the CORE, the plugin API, etc. This will be just exchange Care2x existing framework by a more consistent framework. It will not speed the development and will not have the specific community around.» The CORE (module) should be minimal and very similar to what you can see done with Drupal's Organic Groups. Also, if using Drupal as the base system most of the API is already done, Ajax is part of the system, load balancing is also part of the system, inteligent caching is also part of the system, workflow is also part of the system, i18n and l10n idem, usability ibidem, etc, etc, etc http://lvb.net/item/6026. Related to the second part of the above text I do agree with the person who said it. But I still think that the decision model and the legal structure is the issue here and not the coding part. « Take a look at Typo3 and Drupal associations for instance. But there are many other legal models to consider. I could not explain how they are doing it. But actually it is always nice to read. J I know both Drupal Association and Typo3 Association :)» This are examples of how the diferent teams look at the code: CARE 2X Integrated Information System for Hospitals and Health Care Organizations and Services Care 2002, Care2x, Copyright (C) 2002,2003,2004,2005,2006 Elpidio Latorilla All Drupal code is Copyright 2001 - 2008 by the original authors. Drupal is a registered trademark of Dries Buytaert. http://association.typo3.org/about/t3a-faq/ Those are three diferent legal and decision models. Those are the ones that make things real move on or not. In common the last two have a collegiate decision model and a association type legal structure and they know that to push a project from a certain point forward funds and a legal entity are required. The first one doesn't think that this is needed for quite a long time. «Please decide somethink» - Claudio Your question is wrongly done. Although we* are the project administrators in reality you should have said: «Elpídio, decide something» since he his the only one that decides stuff on the project, as you well know. I'm still waiting for an answer to a question I made to Elpidio regarding the new website. I started a discussion just with the other admins sometime ago about all this stuff and only Robert really replied. Nothing result on this discussion. I'm not quiting Care2x but my current position regarding it is: 1. I will still help it as much as I can -- giving ideas, promoting it and so forth -- but without any coding efforts hence I don't agree with the direction it goes for too much time now; 2. If I get funds to work on the project I will start porting Care2x to Care3G based on the model and concept I discussed with several people already, i.e. Everything is a module. And Drupal will be the framework choosen hence I don't want or need to code everything from scratch; 3. If we get a concensus on the legal and decision model to support Care2x/3G development I'll also pass the copyright of my work to that structure. Have a nice weekend. Best regards, Lopo Note *: Claudio G. Torbinio, Kaloyan Raev, Elpidio Latorilla, Noel Villamor, Robert Meggle and me Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:11:29 +0100 From: Dott Claudio G. Torbinio [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Care2002-developers] Framework? To: care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: noel villamor [EMAIL PROTECTED], Elpidio Latorilla [EMAIL PROTECTED], Robert Meggle [EMAIL PROTECTED] , Kaloyan Raev [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi carers As i can see, as part of the project, is that we are talking over the same stuffs, still feb 2007 The same talking, te same FW talking, the same CMS talking... There is somethink does not work. In one year i can rewrite code, port the project, make 1000 more activityes But only talk about... is a poor result. Now someone can agree with me how hard is decide... By my side i can agree or not with decision, but i am always, still, ever hard working. Please decide somethink BR Claudio G. Torbinio Hi, Just the links for the projects I mentioned earlier: Managing News: http://www.managingnews.com/ (the site is working) Drigg: http://www.drigg-code.org (and FSDaily.com) Another project that is/was made with Drupal as its base is http://www.lulu.com/. Today it uses more things like Ruby and Python and I don't know if they steak with Drupal but... If you go to http://groups.drupal.org/ you could see how much
Re: [Care2002-developers] Framework?
Hi, Just though I would put my two penneth into this discussion. I have been following this mailing list for a while now, and feel a little bit frustrated with this project. It seems to me that care2k has become a reasonable product by v2.5, and is on the way to becoming a good product. Then it seems it was decided to scrap all this good work and rewrite it from scratch. Why? It seems to me that the way forward is one of continuous improvement to the base product we have. It also seems to me that the project has become so wrapped up in the tools that it wants to use, that it has forgotten what its purpose was. That is to produce good open source software for use in hospitals. My advice is to take what we have that is working (ie v2.5), look for a way to improve it, and do that. When that is done, look for another way to improve it, and do that. Anyway, enough from me, just let me finish by saying _please_ dont let this project die, by spending years deliberating over this framework, or that set of tools etc Thanks Tim On 11/02/2008, Dott Claudio G. Torbinio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi carers As i can see, as part of the project, is that we are talking over the same stuffs, still feb 2007 The same talking, te same FW talking, the same CMS talking... There is somethink does not work. In one year i can rewrite code, port the project, make 1000 more activityes But only talk about... is a poor result. Now someone can agree with me how hard is decide... By my side i can agree or not with decision, but i am always, still, ever hard working. Please decide somethink BR Claudio G. Torbinio - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Care2002-developers mailing list Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers
Re: [Care2002-developers] Framework?
I agree with Robert. I see alot of problems with using a CMS for the framework of care 3x. I think we should think of using one of the open source Custermors Relationship systems ie Vtiger crm or Sugar crm. I think if were to go with a cms model we be in alpha stages for a couple years. Just my two cents Jeff On Mon, 11 Feb 2008, Robert Meggle wrote: Hi Tim, Thanks for that nice words. But there is one what I can guarantee; the project will not die. T integration of the current care2x in East Africa are really proceeding. Those ideas and discussions are for the next generation. In the previous years there had been so many ideas about building a HIS on the pillars of CMS, but I really having my doubts about that idea. IMHO... but am always ready to learn from others if there are good arguments. Always thinking forward Robert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:care2002- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Tim Schofield Gesendet: Montag, 11. Februar 2008 14:52 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: noel villamor; Elpidio Latorilla; Robert Meggle; Kaloyan Raev Betreff: Re: [Care2002-developers] Framework? Hi, Just though I would put my two penneth into this discussion. I have been following this mailing list for a while now, and feel a little bit frustrated with this project. It seems to me that care2k has become a reasonable product by v2.5, and is on the way to becoming a good product. Then it seems it was decided to scrap all this good work and rewrite it from scratch. Why? It seems to me that the way forward is one of continuous improvement to the base product we have. It also seems to me that the project has become so wrapped up in the tools that it wants to use, that it has forgotten what its purpose was. That is to produce good open source software for use in hospitals. My advice is to take what we have that is working (ie v2.5), look for a way to improve it, and do that. When that is done, look for another way to improve it, and do that. Anyway, enough from me, just let me finish by saying _please_ dont let this project die, by spending years deliberating over this framework, or that set of tools etc Thanks Tim On 11/02/2008, Dott Claudio G. Torbinio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi carers As i can see, as part of the project, is that we are talking over the same stuffs, still feb 2007 The same talking, te same FW talking, the same CMS talking... There is somethink does not work. In one year i can rewrite code, port the project, make 1000 more activityes But only talk about... is a poor result. Now someone can agree with me how hard is decide... By my side i can agree or not with decision, but i am always, still, ever hard working. Please decide somethink BR Claudio G. Torbinio - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Care2002-developers mailing list Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Care2002-developers mailing list Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___ Care2002-developers mailing list Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers
Re: [Care2002-developers] Framework?
Hi Tim, Thanks for that nice words. But there is one what I can guarantee; the project will not die. T integration of the current care2x in East Africa are really proceeding. Those ideas and discussions are for the next generation. In the previous years there had been so many ideas about building a HIS on the pillars of CMS, but I really having my doubts about that idea. IMHO... but am always ready to learn from others if there are good arguments. Always thinking forward Robert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:care2002- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Tim Schofield Gesendet: Montag, 11. Februar 2008 14:52 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: noel villamor; Elpidio Latorilla; Robert Meggle; Kaloyan Raev Betreff: Re: [Care2002-developers] Framework? Hi, Just though I would put my two penneth into this discussion. I have been following this mailing list for a while now, and feel a little bit frustrated with this project. It seems to me that care2k has become a reasonable product by v2.5, and is on the way to becoming a good product. Then it seems it was decided to scrap all this good work and rewrite it from scratch. Why? It seems to me that the way forward is one of continuous improvement to the base product we have. It also seems to me that the project has become so wrapped up in the tools that it wants to use, that it has forgotten what its purpose was. That is to produce good open source software for use in hospitals. My advice is to take what we have that is working (ie v2.5), look for a way to improve it, and do that. When that is done, look for another way to improve it, and do that. Anyway, enough from me, just let me finish by saying _please_ dont let this project die, by spending years deliberating over this framework, or that set of tools etc Thanks Tim On 11/02/2008, Dott Claudio G. Torbinio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi carers As i can see, as part of the project, is that we are talking over the same stuffs, still feb 2007 The same talking, te same FW talking, the same CMS talking... There is somethink does not work. In one year i can rewrite code, port the project, make 1000 more activityes But only talk about... is a poor result. Now someone can agree with me how hard is decide... By my side i can agree or not with decision, but i am always, still, ever hard working. Please decide somethink BR Claudio G. Torbinio - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Care2002-developers mailing list Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Care2002-developers mailing list Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers
Re: [Care2002-developers] Framework?
Hi, what you say about the improvements in care2x are right from a certain point of view. but, for me, as I see it, is very difficult to add all the features I'll wish. at least with this codebase. if you calculate a bit what has been added to the actual project in this year, you'll notice that it isn't very much. not because there aren't good programmer here, but because the actual codebase is very difficult to handle : no coding standards, old architecture, to much useless code and a lot of other small things. as, for me there are only to possible ways of updating care2x. first, rewrite it all from scratch second, transform the code towards a more modern architecture. wich is what I'm doing actually. regards gjergji Tim Schofield wrote: Hi, Just though I would put my two penneth into this discussion. I have been following this mailing list for a while now, and feel a little bit frustrated with this project. It seems to me that care2k has become a reasonable product by v2.5, and is on the way to becoming a good product. Then it seems it was decided to scrap all this good work and rewrite it from scratch. Why? It seems to me that the way forward is one of continuous improvement to the base product we have. It also seems to me that the project has become so wrapped up in the tools that it wants to use, that it has forgotten what its purpose was. That is to produce good open source software for use in hospitals. My advice is to take what we have that is working (ie v2.5), look for a way to improve it, and do that. When that is done, look for another way to improve it, and do that. Anyway, enough from me, just let me finish by saying _please_ dont let this project die, by spending years deliberating over this framework, or that set of tools etc Thanks Tim On 11/02/2008, Dott Claudio G. Torbinio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi carers As i can see, as part of the project, is that we are talking over the same stuffs, still feb 2007 The same talking, te same FW talking, the same CMS talking... There is somethink does not work. In one year i can rewrite code, port the project, make 1000 more activityes But only talk about... is a poor result. Now someone can agree with me how hard is decide... By my side i can agree or not with decision, but i am always, still, ever hard working. Please decide somethink BR Claudio G. Torbinio - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Care2002-developers mailing list Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Care2002-developers mailing list Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers
Re: [Care2002-developers] Framework?
Hi carers As i can see, as part of the project, is that we are talking over the same stuffs, still feb 2007 The same talking, te same FW talking, the same CMS talking... There is somethink does not work. In one year i can rewrite code, port the project, make 1000 more activityes But only talk about... is a poor result. Now someone can agree with me how hard is decide... By my side i can agree or not with decision, but i am always, still, ever hard working. Please decide somethink BR Claudio G. Torbinio Hi, Just the links for the projects I mentioned earlier: Managing News: http://www.managingnews.com/ (the site is working) Drigg: http://www.drigg-code.org (and FSDaily.com) Another project that is/was made with Drupal as its base is http://www.lulu.com/. Today it uses more things like Ruby and Python and I don't know if they steak with Drupal but... If you go to http://groups.drupal.org/ you could see how much areas are people talking and working on. Take a peek at http://www.drupalbook.com/ to see a little more about it. This is an interesting group: http://groups.drupal.org/enterprise This site as a list of more than 2000 sites made with Drupal: http://www.drupalsites.net/ The problem with a Framework, as I see it, is that you will have to do it all, i.e create the CORE, the plugin API, etc. This will be just exchange Care2x existing framework by a more consistent framework. It will not speed the development and will not have the specific community around. Take a look at Typo3 and Drupal associations for instance. But there are many other legal models to consider. I could not explain how they are doing it. But actually it is always nice to read. J I know both Drupal Association and Typo3 Association :) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 09/02/2008 11.54 -- Dott Claudio G. Torbinio http://cgt.altervista.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] callto://nursind.ancona (Skype ID) mobile: +393339925580 - Riservatezza In ottemperanza al D.Lgs. n. 196 del 30/6/2003 in materia di protezione dei dati personali,le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio sono strettamente riservate ed esclusivamente indirizzate al destinatario indicato (oppure alla persona responsabile di rimetterlo al destinatario). Vogliate tener presente che qualsiasi uso, riproduzione o divulgazione di questo messaggio è vietato. Nel caso in cui aveste ricevuto questo messaggio per errore, vogliate cortesemente avvertire il mittente inviando una email a [EMAIL PROTECTED] o telefonando al n. +393339925580 e distruggere il presente messaggio. Confidentiality According to Italian law D.Lgs. 196/2003 concerning privacy, if you are not the addressee (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person) you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or call n. +393339925580 and destroy it. -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Cerchi un gioiello speciale ad un prezzo davvero imbattibile? Sceglilo su * AA Diamonds.com e lo riceverai a casa tua in 24 ore! * Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=7475d=11-2 - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Care2002-developers mailing list Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers
Re: [Care2002-developers] Framework
Cladio, Thank you very much. Elpidio On 1/1/08, Claudio Giulio Torbinio - Personale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The MODx Ajax CMS and PHP Application Framework (http://modxcms.com/) is the new platform, AMP version indipendent, where we are beginning tke porting of care2x. Please let read documentation of the framework, to sincronyze our developement work. BR Claudio -- -- Dr Claudio G. Torbinio http://cgt.altervista.org http://cgt.altervista.org/blog [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] callto://nursind.ancona (Skype ID) mobile: +393339925580 -- Riservatezza In ottemperanza al D.Lgs. n. 196 del 30/6/2003 in materia di protezione dei dati personali,le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio sono strettamente riservate ed esclusivamente indirizzate al destinatario indicato (oppure alla persona responsabile di rimetterlo al destinatario). Vogliate tener presente che qualsiasi uso, riproduzione o divulgazione di questo messaggio è vietato. Nel caso in cui aveste ricevuto questo messaggio per errore, vogliate cortesemente avvertire il mittente inviando una email a [EMAIL PROTECTED] o [EMAIL PROTECTED] o [EMAIL PROTECTED] o telefonando al n. +393339925580 e distruggere il presente messaggio. Confidentiality According to Italian law D.Lgs. 196/2003 concerning privacy, if you are not the addressee (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person) you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] or call n. +393339925580 and destroy it. -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: In REGALO 'All the Good Thing' di NELLY FURTADO Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=6616d=1-1 - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Care2002-developers mailing list Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___ Care2002-developers mailing list Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers
