Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Oliver Lehmann]

Hi Warner, hi Brad,

I have an old russian 50MHz dual-beam osciloscope but without
any storage functionality. -> http://files.pofo.de/P1070427.JPG
I guess it would not be that easy to actually display the whole
communication cylce. I could see how good the flanks are, but I guess
my AVR does it quite well.

In the meantime I checked the FreeBSD ata driver as well as Linux
ata driver and I also took a look on FreeDOS. I don't see that much
differences to how I issue the Read/write commands.

This is my circuit:
http://www.pofo.de/P8000/notes/plaene/eigene/P8000_WDC_Emulator/P8000_WDC_Emulator_v1.2_Plan.pdf
It changed a bit in the meantime regarding the reset logic and I moved
2L1 from the PATA-Connector to the free AVR-Port, but nothing significantly
changed.

https://github.com/OlliL/P8000_WDC_Emulator/blob/master/P8000_WDC_Emulator/wdc_drv_pata.c

This is my ATA driver and in the directory is all the other Code for my
AVR.

I'll probably dig out my old 486 mainboard with an old ISA IDE Controller
to check if this old thing is able to work with that harddisk. All newer
stuff will do WDMA or UDMA and not PIO like I do with my AVR.

If the 486 is also able to work with that disk, I see two options...

a) get a cheap "open logic sniffer" (logic analysator) and see how good
the timing is (but as I said I added massive delays without success)

b) just accept that there is hardware around in the PC sector which works
"sometimes" ;)

I don't intend to use this harddrive anyway, I just fear that I made a
misstake in my circuit or the code and others intending to use my
emulator also experiencing problems with their drives too.

Regards,
Oliver

Looking for AS/400

[Brian Adams]

Hi there,

Recently, I've been reading up into AS/400s.. They seem like really neat 
machines, and look really sharp with those matching block terminals.
I remember retail stores using those, and I always wondered what kind of a 
system they were running on... I figured it was DOS!

I've been having trouble locating one, however.

Anybody have one lying around, or know of where to find one in the Toronto area?
It needn't be a high spec machine, just something to play with OS/400 and a 
terminal.

Thanks!

-brian

Re: Appraisal for Donation (Pontus Pihlgren)

[Michael Thompson]

>
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 16:47:51 +0100
> From: Pontus Pihlgren 
> Subject: Re: Appraisal for Donation
>
> I'm not sure what you are asking. But a PDP-12 sold north of
> 15k dollars:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/161199469414
>
> /P
>

Thanks! I remembered that one selling, but I couldn't remember where.

-- 
Michael Thompson

Pair of PDP-11/04's available

[Noel Chiappa]

So I've been informed that a pair of PDP-11/04's are available, Chicago US
area. The price isn't set - someone else has offered the owner ~$400, which
seems a bit low to me (although I don't know what peripherals/memory are
included, if any). One is in a 5" box, and one in an 11"; both apparently
include the basic "Operator's Console" (i.e. halt and reset toggles). Contact
Patrick Lynn at 815-838-0134 if interested.

Noel

Re: TU-58

[rod]

its working ok now. Its hung off of an old notebook on a serial port.
NB has dos 6.2 and some drivers I found on spare time gizmos site

I discovered by chance that the rubber compression sleeve from an NType  
RF connector

is exactly the right size and when cut in half fixes both drive wheels.
I need to go up in the loft and see if I have any more carts.

Rod


On 06/12/2015 17:27, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
>On Friday, December 4th, 2015 at 11:41 A.M. GMT (6:41 A.M. EST) Rod 
Smallwood wrote:



Hello All
   Well I managed to find some suitable rubber tubing and 
glued it in place of the nasty black mess.
So I put everything back and turned on. Lo and Behold LED on the 
board flashed once and stayed on.


I had been told (Tony D I think) thats what its supposed to do.

Anybody know whats the quickest way to test a TU-58?


As expected, my approach will always be based on using RT-11.
There are DD(X).SYS device drivers available up to V05.04G
of RT-11.  If you are able to boot one of those versions and
you manage to connect the null-modem cable between the
DL and the TU-58, you should be able to read and write
to the TU-58 device.

If you don't have a cabinet kit, then use whatever is needed
at both ends.  If your cable is 10-pin at each end, then
disconnect the 10-pin cable to the cabinet kit for that DL
port and connect the cable directly to the DLV11-J.

Note that under RT11XM, I believe
it is necessary to first LOAD the DDX device handler as in:
LOAD  DD:

In addition, even before that, you must match the CSR and
VECTOR with the DL port you are using.  On a Qbus
system with a DLV11-J, usually the first DL port is:
SET  DD  CSR=176500
SET  DD  VECTOR=300

On a PDP-11/23, there is an extra port at:
SET  DD  CSR=177570
SET  DD  VECTOR=70
if I remember correctly.

With a Unibus system, I am not sure, but the values will be
similar.

Let us know what happens.  Don't forget that the TU58 is
a very slow serial tape device, not a disk drive even though
the RT-11 software thinks that there is a small disk drive
being used.

Jerome Fine

Re: TU-58

[Pete Turnbull]

On 06/12/2015 17:27, Jerome H. Fine wrote:


In addition, even before that, you must match the CSR and
VECTOR with the DL port you are using.  On a Qbus
system with a DLV11-J, usually the first DL port is:
SET  DD  CSR=176500
SET  DD  VECTOR=300

On a PDP-11/23, there is an extra port at:
SET  DD  CSR=177570
SET  DD  VECTOR=70
if I remember correctly.


I don't think so :-)  177570 is the switch/display register, which only 
exists on some Unibus machines.  It definitely doesn't exist on an 
11/23.  Maybe you're thinking of the console CSR at 177560 with vector 60?


Unibus addresses are the same as QBus, at least for I/O devices (things 
like memory management are done differently).


--
Pete

Pete Turnbull

Re: TU-58

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2015-12-07 10:24, Pete Turnbull wrote:

On 06/12/2015 17:27, Jerome H. Fine wrote:


In addition, even before that, you must match the CSR and
VECTOR with the DL port you are using.  On a Qbus
system with a DLV11-J, usually the first DL port is:
SET  DD  CSR=176500
SET  DD  VECTOR=300

On a PDP-11/23, there is an extra port at:
SET  DD  CSR=177570
SET  DD  VECTOR=70
if I remember correctly.


I don't think so :-)  177570 is the switch/display register, which only
exists on some Unibus machines.  It definitely doesn't exist on an
11/23.  Maybe you're thinking of the console CSR at 177560 with vector 60?


The display register also exist on some Qbus machines, such as the 
11/83, which have a two digit 7 segment display.



Unibus addresses are the same as QBus, at least for I/O devices (things
like memory management are done differently).


Uh. I/O addresses as such are just addresses. Devices might be similar 
between Unibus and Qbus. Depends on the device. There are many Qbus 
devices that are similar/compatible with their Unibus counterparts, but 
not always. DMA devices are not, for the obvious reason. However, they 
can still be "mostly compatible".


The memory management is compatible, so no, memory management is not 
done differently.


All that said, yeah, the second serial port is most likely not at 
177570. But that can be checked in the manuals...


Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

80186 multi buss system problem

[Grant]

Hi,

I’m looking for some help diagnosing a old Grid server problem,I am a hobbyist 
learning my way around old computer systems .
The system consists of three boards labeled
Diagnostic server
File server
Com server

Each board contains a 80186 , ram and rom and are all connected via a backplane.
The diagnostic server has rs232 port and a connector to a small led display.
The file server has a GPIB port and a something along the lines of a SASI port
The com server has what i believe to be several rs232/422’s ports at least

What i know works is the diagnostics server and the file server as i can 
interact with the diagnostic server via a serial terminal and the file server 
attempts to boot from a gpib floppy but i have no boot media that will boot it.
The problem is with the com server board, when the system initializes the 
diagnostic board does a self test then looks for other boards on the system it 
finds the file server board but does not find the com server board.
If i remove the the file and com server and power them out of system, reset the 
processor’s and then probe the different signals they appear to be operating 
the same,clk activity , data and address buss activity is identical. When i put 
them in the system and watch the file and com server boot it looks like the com 
server get stuck when it goes to send its data to the diagnostic server.  I'm 
just a amateur at these things, i am looking for help to point me in the right 
direction. i made a small video of a typical data line at boot the first is the 
file server then the com server where you can see it get stuck , this is 
typical of all the signals that i test.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHftWR0Ddys=youtu.be

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: TU-58

[rod]

OK as you surmised its destined for 'eleven_heaven' my row of q-bus 
pdp11's 11/23 11/53 11/73.
I I also have two 11/94's (Hybrid bus) waiting on the day KDJ11-E's 
don't cost $2000.

  DLV-11J I have or what ever the four port one is called.
Plus  backplate with four 25way D connectors and split ribbon cable to 
four plugs into the DLV.


As to the speed , well, I had one at DecPark called Sylvester because 
sat on my desk and purred.

Rod


On 07/12/15 08:47, rod wrote:

its working ok now. Its hung off of an old notebook on a serial port.
NB has dos 6.2 and some drivers I found on spare time gizmos site

I discovered by chance that the rubber compression sleeve from an 
NType  RF connector

is exactly the right size and when cut in half fixes both drive wheels.
I need to go up in the loft and see if I have any more carts.

Rod


On 06/12/2015 17:27, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
>On Friday, December 4th, 2015 at 11:41 A.M. GMT (6:41 A.M. EST) Rod 
Smallwood wrote:



Hello All
   Well I managed to find some suitable rubber tubing 
and glued it in place of the nasty black mess.
So I put everything back and turned on. Lo and Behold LED on the 
board flashed once and stayed on.


I had been told (Tony D I think) thats what its supposed to do.

Anybody know whats the quickest way to test a TU-58?


As expected, my approach will always be based on using RT-11.
There are DD(X).SYS device drivers available up to V05.04G
of RT-11.  If you are able to boot one of those versions and
you manage to connect the null-modem cable between the
DL and the TU-58, you should be able to read and write
to the TU-58 device.

If you don't have a cabinet kit, then use whatever is needed
at both ends.  If your cable is 10-pin at each end, then
disconnect the 10-pin cable to the cabinet kit for that DL
port and connect the cable directly to the DLV11-J.

Note that under RT11XM, I believe
it is necessary to first LOAD the DDX device handler as in:
LOAD  DD:

In addition, even before that, you must match the CSR and
VECTOR with the DL port you are using.  On a Qbus
system with a DLV11-J, usually the first DL port is:
SET  DD  CSR=176500
SET  DD  VECTOR=300

On a PDP-11/23, there is an extra port at:
SET  DD  CSR=177570
SET  DD  VECTOR=70
if I remember correctly.

With a Unibus system, I am not sure, but the values will be
similar.

Let us know what happens.  Don't forget that the TU58 is
a very slow serial tape device, not a disk drive even though
the RT-11 software thinks that there is a small disk drive
being used.

Jerome Fine

Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Joseph Lang]

Try sector count=1

Joe

> On Dec 6, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Oliver Lehmann  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've built a Harddisk-Controller-Emulator for my system which accesses
> a IDE (PATA) harddisk with an ATMega in PIO mode. It works like a charm
> except for one WD harddisk. The harddisk itself works fine with MS-DOS
> 6.22 and FreeBSD but refuses to work with my ATMega.
> 
> On reading or writing a sector, right after the command is issued, the
> error bit is set in the status register, and the error register indicates
> an ABRT.
> 
> # ABRT:
> # indicates the requested  command has been aborted  due to a
> # drive status error (such as not ready or write fault) or because
> # the command is invalid.
> 
> Right after power up and after the disk got ready, I issue the IDENTIFY
> command and read the data back which works perfectly. After that I
> read sector 0 and this fails.
> 
> I use LBA since the harddisk states that is supportes LBA. Nevertheless
> I also tried accessing the harddisk with CHS mode and got the same error.
> 
> I tested other harddisks which support either CHS+LBA or CHS only. All
> of them work perfectly.
> 
> 
> 
> What happens after powerup to read block 0 of the disk in LBA mode:
> 
> - Setup AVR ports and so on
> - wait until RDY gets high
> - wait until BSY gets low
> - issue a Drive/Head register Command with value 0
> - wait until BSY gets low
> - issue a Command Register Command with value 0xEC (identify device)
> - *read data*
> - process and print out data
> - wait until BSY gets low
> - issue a Sector Count register Command with value 0
> - issue a Sector Number register Command with value 0
> - issue a Cylinder Low register Command with value 0
> - issue a Cylinder High register Command with value 0
> - issue a Drive/Head register Command with 0 + 0xE0 (LBA, Drive 0)
> - issue a Command Register Command with value 0x20 (Read Sector)
> - *read data*
> 
> 
> *read data*:
> 
> - wait until BSY gets low
> - check ERR bit in the Status register <- set on cmd 0x20 here
> - wait until DRQ gets high
> - issue a Data register Command with no data
> - put /RD on low
> - read 512 bytes of data
> - put /RD on high
> - check ERR bit in the Status register
> 
> Issuing a Command works always like setting /CS0, /CS1, /DA0, /DA1,
> /DA2 to low, and then set the needed signals to high so the desired
> command is indicated.
> When data has to be transfered with this command, the lower 8 bits
> are put then onto the port, /WR is set to low afterwards, 3 nop()
> are done and /WR is set back to high.
> 
> Does anyone see an error what could make the drive behave like I said?
> 
> - ATA IDENTIFY works, and the drives data can be read
> - after a read or write sector command is issued, the status register
> directly goes 0xd0 (busy) and with the 2nd fetch 0x59 (not busy, drq
> set, err set)
> 
> Regards, Oliver

Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Oliver Lehmann]

Joseph Lang  wrote:


Try sector count=1


Good eyes! :)
Unfortunally it was just a type I made in the mail.

Sector count is of course 1.

Regards, Oliver

Re: Evotek Winchester Harddisk

[Oliver Lehmann]

Tom Gardner  wrote:

The Evotek drive initially used the notoriously unreliable Ampex  
Alar plated media; whether they ever upgraded to sputtered media is  
uncertain.  It probably should be avoided.


I would look for an replacement drive using oxide media.  The nice  
thing about oxide media is it came pre-corroded so that's one thing  
not to worry about in a 35 year old drive


OK, but I'm not looking for a replacement for en Evotek harddisk, but for
a CDC FINCH harddisk. These drives seem to be so rare - I would not even
care about the media the disks where made of ;)
And - I found nothing "compatible" so far to replace them with other
harddisks.

Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Warner Losh]

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Brad Parker  wrote:

> On 12/7/15 6:52 AM, Oliver Lehmann wrote:
>
> I don't have much to offer, but I have done PIO IDE accesses on lots of
> cpu's, including small ARM cpu's.  I would put the code into a "read loop"
> and "write loop" and look at the signals with a scope. Make sure they look
> good - i.e. clean edges and the width of the assertion is "ok".  I think
> the minimum is something like 300ns (I may be wrong, that's what I
> remember).   And make sure the address is stable before you assert WE# -
> I'd check that with a scope as well.  If you don't have a scope a simple
> logic analyser will work, but a scope is better.
>
> I seem to recall some drives got unhappy if some of the signals on the IDE
> interface were not exactly right - several need to be grounded and several
> pulled up with a resistor.  You don't mention what your physical interface
> is.  If you do I can dig up my notes and tell you what I've done in the
> past (not that it's authoritative, but it's something to compare with).


One thing that's often forgotten is that some IDE drives redefine what it
means to be low-end. The literature
is littered with stories of drive 'cost reduction' that would make the
original engineers cringe: removing filtering
caps because they weren't needed, removing termination and/or specifying
higher tolerance resistor packs
(which only breaks cables at the limits of the spec), using cheaper caps
that go horrifically bad over time
(both the electrolytic well known to this forum from power supplies, to
others that were cheap because
they were defective). If drive makers could save a buck doing it, you can
be sure at least one of them
has tried with product in the market that may be causing you grief. Things
that shouldn't matter most
of the time will matter. It might even be on your board. Too-slow rise
times, etc from board layout.

tl;dr: get a scope and make sure the signals look clean and meet the
minimums in the specs
by a safe margin.

Warner

SCSI Questions (Was: "Re: Purchased a Microvax 3800")

[Christian Gauger-Cosgrove]

On 6 December 2015 at 13:24, Mark G. Thomas  wrote:
> As much as I love old CPUs, I've lost my patience with hard disk drives.
> I've been using AztecMonster (search ebay) CF-SCSI adapters, with several-GB
> CF cards instead of spinning disks. The KA660 and several PDP-11/83s
> here run reliably from CF storage. I see now there are SCSI2SD cards for
> half the price of the AztecMonster CF adapters I've been using. These
> might be an alternative, if they play okay with whatever q-bus SCSI
> controller you find. Installing from SCSI CDROM and using flash
> storage is definitely the way to go if you can get the parts.
>
That's great news to hear that the AztecMonster works on QBUS PDP-11s.
I now know exactly what my future plans are...

But I have a "random" question for those here. I know some of the QBUS
(and UNIBUS) SCSI controllers can act both as an MSCP and TMSCP
controller. (CMD CQD-220A/TM for one example.) And I know that several
of the PDP-11 operating systems install from tape, and can install
from TMSCP tape (hello RSTS/E). What I'd like to know is: Is there
anything out there that can emulate a SCSI tape device on a CF card/SD
card/USB stick/what-have-you?


Best regards,
Christian
-- 
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.

RE: Evotek Winchester Harddisk

[Tom Gardner]

Sorry If I didn't make myself clear, I am suggesting one never acquire an 
Evotek drive today other than perhaps as an historical curiosity.

 

The Finch was a short lived 8-inch HDD that went up to 42 MB unformatted BUT 
according to Disk/Trend It did not use an ST506 interface but instead came with 
this  variety of interfaces: Finch, LDI, SMD or SA1000!  So your problem is 
likely to be finding a drive that matches the interface of yr controller card.  
 Some possibilities

· Finch interface was available on certain CDC Wren 5½-inch models, 
e.g. 9415

· SA1000 interface was available on the 8-inch Quantum Q2000

· SMD interface was available on CDC 8-inch FSD models; e.g., 9715

· I have no idea what LDI was

BTW the ST506 interface is a copy of SA1000 interface with the major difference 
being a slightly higher data rate so any ST506 might actually work but the 
problem might be low level formatting due to the unexpected track length.  
Depends upon the formatting utility

 

If u know what interface u need I can suggest models

 

Tom

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Oliver Lehmann [mailto:lehm...@ans-netz.de] 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 3:55 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Evotek Winchester Harddisk

 

 

Tom Gardner <  t.gard...@computer.org> wrote:

 

> The Evotek drive initially used the notoriously unreliable Ampex Alar 

> plated media; whether they ever upgraded to sputtered media is 

> uncertain.  It probably should be avoided.

> 

> I would look for an replacement drive using oxide media.  The nice 

> thing about oxide media is it came pre-corroded so that's one thing 

> not to worry about in a 35 year old drive

 

OK, but I'm not looking for a replacement for en Evotek harddisk, but for a CDC 
FINCH harddisk. These drives seem to be so rare - I would not even care about 
the media the disks where made of ;) And - I found nothing "compatible" so far 
to replace them with other harddisks.

 

Re: SCSI Questions (Was: "Re: Purchased a Microvax 3800")

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2015-12-07 20:25, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:

On 6 December 2015 at 13:24, Mark G. Thomas  wrote:

As much as I love old CPUs, I've lost my patience with hard disk drives.
I've been using AztecMonster (search ebay) CF-SCSI adapters, with several-GB
CF cards instead of spinning disks. The KA660 and several PDP-11/83s
here run reliably from CF storage. I see now there are SCSI2SD cards for
half the price of the AztecMonster CF adapters I've been using. These
might be an alternative, if they play okay with whatever q-bus SCSI
controller you find. Installing from SCSI CDROM and using flash
storage is definitely the way to go if you can get the parts.


That's great news to hear that the AztecMonster works on QBUS PDP-11s.
I now know exactly what my future plans are...

But I have a "random" question for those here. I know some of the QBUS
(and UNIBUS) SCSI controllers can act both as an MSCP and TMSCP
controller. (CMD CQD-220A/TM for one example.) And I know that several
of the PDP-11 operating systems install from tape, and can install
from TMSCP tape (hello RSTS/E). What I'd like to know is: Is there
anything out there that can emulate a SCSI tape device on a CF card/SD
card/USB stick/what-have-you?


I think all (modern PDP-11) OSes can install from TMSCP tapes. RSTS/E is 
more picky than some others, though, if I remember right...


As for your actual question, that is outside the scope of the PDP-11. 
You are asking if there is some SCSI storage, that physically looks like 
a CF card (or so), but logically on the SCSI bus looks like a tape.


Hooking that to a PDP-11 or an x86-64 wouldn't make any difference.

Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Re: SCSI Questions (Was: "Re: Purchased a Microvax 3800")

[Christian Gauger-Cosgrove]

On 7 December 2015 at 14:29, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> I think all (modern PDP-11) OSes can install from TMSCP tapes. RSTS/E is
> more picky than some others, though, if I remember right...
>
Yes, RSTS/E installs from TMSCP just fine (as can RSX-11/M+); I know
that in simh you can bring up Ultrix-11 3.1 only on TMSCP
(specifically a TK50), at least if you want all of the packages to
install. I've installed RSTS/E 10.1-L from MASSBUS, TS11, TM11, and
TMSCP in my various experimentation with emulation, it really doesn't
care what the tape is as long as your SYSGEN device is consistent.


> As for your actual question, that is outside the scope of the PDP-11. You
> are asking if there is some SCSI storage, that physically looks like a CF
> card (or so), but logically on the SCSI bus looks like a tape.
>
Yeah, probably my phrasing or organization was a bit off, but what I
meant wasn't with regards to just the PDP-11, but with regards to a
general device that looks like a SCSI tape device. Since such a SCSI
device could, like you said, work on a PDP-11, modern x86-64 (if the
SCSI bus is right), VAX, Alpha, et cetera.


Cheers,
Christian
-- 
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.

Re: Evotek Winchester Harddisk

[Oliver Lehmann]

Tom Gardner  wrote:

Sorry If I didn't make myself clear, I am suggesting one never  
acquire an Evotek drive today other than perhaps as an historical  
curiosity.




The Finch was a short lived 8-inch HDD that went up to 42 MB  
unformatted BUT according to Disk/Trend It did not use an ST506  
interface but instead came with this  variety of interfaces: Finch,  
LDI, SMD or SA1000!  So your problem is likely to be finding a drive  
that matches the interface of yr controller card.   Some possibilities


· Finch interface was available on certain CDC Wren 5½-inch  
models, e.g. 9415




From what I understood in the Zilog System 8000 manuals, it is the
Finch interface.

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/zilog/s8000/03-3237-04_hwRef_Dec82.pdf

Page 33 - Drive Performance Characterstics
Page 47 - Pinout of the WDC-Controller Disk Connector
Page 65-69 - Describing Driver Configurations


Here are pictures of harddisks used in the System 8000:

http://pics.pofo.de/gallery3/index.php/S8000/Harddisk


And this is the so called "FINCH Adapter Board" used in the S8000:

http://pics.pofo.de/gallery3/index.php/S8000/S8000_boards/FINCH-Adapter-Board

Re: SCSI Questions (Was: "Re: Purchased a Microvax 3800")

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2015-12-07 20:36, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:

On 7 December 2015 at 14:29, Johnny Billquist  wrote:

I think all (modern PDP-11) OSes can install from TMSCP tapes. RSTS/E is
more picky than some others, though, if I remember right...


Yes, RSTS/E installs from TMSCP just fine (as can RSX-11/M+); I know
that in simh you can bring up Ultrix-11 3.1 only on TMSCP
(specifically a TK50), at least if you want all of the packages to
install. I've installed RSTS/E 10.1-L from MASSBUS, TS11, TM11, and
TMSCP in my various experimentation with emulation, it really doesn't
care what the tape is as long as your SYSGEN device is consistent.


Actually, RSTS/E have some issues with install if the tape isn't write 
locked. I thought it was some combo/confusion between TK50 and TK70, but 
it was the write lock issue that I sortof remembered...


Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Re: SCSI Questions (Was: "Re: Purchased a Microvax 3800")

[Paul Koning]

> On Dec 7, 2015, at 2:56 PM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> 
> On 2015-12-07 20:36, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
>> On 7 December 2015 at 14:29, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
>>> I think all (modern PDP-11) OSes can install from TMSCP tapes. RSTS/E is
>>> more picky than some others, though, if I remember right...
>>> 
>> Yes, RSTS/E installs from TMSCP just fine (as can RSX-11/M+); I know
>> that in simh you can bring up Ultrix-11 3.1 only on TMSCP
>> (specifically a TK50), at least if you want all of the packages to
>> install. I've installed RSTS/E 10.1-L from MASSBUS, TS11, TM11, and
>> TMSCP in my various experimentation with emulation, it really doesn't
>> care what the tape is as long as your SYSGEN device is consistent.
> 
> Actually, RSTS/E have some issues with install if the tape isn't write 
> locked. I thought it was some combo/confusion between TK50 and TK70, but it 
> was the write lock issue that I sortof remembered...

That doesn't sound quite right.  RSTS/E treats a boot disk as an installation 
(kit) disk if its file system is marked as read-only.  (That's the file system 
flags, not the drive write protect button).  If you boot such a disk, it goes 
to the installation dialog rather than the system start dialog.

If you boot from tape, you'll also (always) end up in the installation dialog 
since the assumption is that the only bootable tapes out there are install kits.

paul

Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Oliver Lehmann]

And regarding timing... even this drive works without any problem:

=== P8000 WDC Emulator 0.93 ===
INFO: PATA init start
INFO: PATA disk has been found
INFO: Number of logical cylinders: 1001
INFO: Number of logical heads: 15
INFO: Number of logical sectors per logical track: 34
INFO: Serial number:   00DG169020
INFO: Firmware revision: 05.05.01
INFO: Model number: ST3290A
INFO: Capabilities:

Its releasedate should be somewhere in 1994. So it predates the drive
I have problems with for two years:

=== P8000 WDC Emulator 0.93 ===
INFO: PATA init start
INFO: PATA disk has been found
INFO: Number of logical cylinders: 3148
INFO: Number of logical heads: 16
INFO: Number of logical sectors per logical track: 63
INFO: Serial number: WD-WT2891920914
INFO: Firmware revision: 23.16U73
INFO: Model number: WDC AC31600H
INFO: Capabilities: DMA, LBA, IORDY may be disabled, IORDY, Standard  
standby Timer values,

INFO: User addressable sectors for 28-bit commands: 3173184
Single Word DMA modes: 0
Multiword Word DMA modes: 1031
PIO modes: 3
INFO: Minimum Multiword DMA cycle time per word: 120ns
INFO: Recommended Multiword DMA cycle time: 120ns
INFO: Minimum PIO transfer cycle time without flow control: 160ns
INFO: Minimum PIO cycle time with IORDY flow control: 120ns
INFO: Additional support: 0
ERROR: read error at address: 0 / errorcode is: 04

Other WD drives I own from '98 and '99 also work. Also a Samsung 560MB
drive from 1995 which is also doing LBA works fine.

Regards, Oliver


Oliver Lehmann  wrote:


Hi,

OK, i tried now to set Drive/Head first before I set all the other
registers. No success.
I then added a 10ms delay after the data is set for each register,
disable /WR and then wait another 10ms before I execute the next
register.
I also added status checks after each register setting. It stays 0x50
everytime I check it and just after I issue the command it goes to
0x59.

Feel a bit clueless here :/

Oliver


Oliver Lehmann  wrote:


Hi Toby,

Toby Thain  wrote:


I think Jon is probably on to something.

You can check out the delays in my PIO bit-banging code here:
http://www.telegraphics.com.au/svn/picide/trunk/

I tested it on a few drives & spent a lot of quality time with the  
spec...of course I can't guarantee it would work for your specific  
drive, but it might give you a clue where a delay is missing.


I think that what goes wrong in my code is the pure reading/writing
stuff since the IDENTIFY command works without any problem. So I
checked checked your ASM code for the PIC specific for that purpose.

From what I see in "ide_lbacmd" in ide.asm, you wait for BSY and DRQ
to get low, via "ide_devselect", then issue the drive+head register,
wait again for BSY and DRQ still in  "ide_devselect" . Then, back in
"ide_lbacmd" you issue the other sector/cyl/head registers. Right
after that you issue the command to execute without any further
waiting.

Now is the point where I get the error bit - so how the data is read
is probably not important here.

I'll tra to "redo" your code tonight, but beside that you issue the
drive+head first and I do just before I issue the command, I don't
see a big difference here.

I wonder if I could query the drive for the sector/cyl/head data it
works with to see if they where recieved correctly. I guess it just
gets invalid data for at least one of this so it response with ERR
for any read or write command because of "invalid addressing" (I
think).
Do you know if there is a way to find out what sector/cyl/head the
drive tried to process the command?

Regards,
Oliver

Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Brad Parker]

On 12/7/15 6:52 AM, Oliver Lehmann wrote:

I don't have much to offer, but I have done PIO IDE accesses on lots of 
cpu's, including small ARM cpu's.  I would put the code into a "read 
loop" and "write loop" and look at the signals with a scope. Make sure 
they look good - i.e. clean edges and the width of the assertion is 
"ok".  I think the minimum is something like 300ns (I may be wrong, 
that's what I remember).   And make sure the address is stable before 
you assert WE# - I'd check that with a scope as well.  If you don't have 
a scope a simple logic analyser will work, but a scope is better.


I seem to recall some drives got unhappy if some of the signals on the 
IDE interface were not exactly right - several need to be grounded and 
several pulled up with a resistor.  You don't mention what your physical 
interface is.  If you do I can dig up my notes and tell you what I've 
done in the past (not that it's authoritative, but it's something to 
compare with).


I'm sure you'll figure it out - just keep trying :-)

-brad

New release of FreePascal

[Mark Linimon]

So I just saw this commit go by on the FreeBSD ports mailing list.
Since some people were talking about Pascal a month or two ago, I
thought it might be of interest to them.

I'm sure commits to various Linux systems will be done as well.

fwiw, I removed the 1460+ lines of diff :-)

mcl

- Forwarded message from John Marino  -

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 23:29:37 + (UTC)
From: John Marino 
To: ports-committ...@freebsd.org, svn-ports-...@freebsd.org, 
svn-ports-h...@freebsd.org
Subject: svn commit: r403082 - in head: . Mk archivers archivers/fpc-bzip2 
archivers/fpc-paszlib archivers/fpc-unzip audio audio/fpc-a52 
audio/fpc-a52/files audio/fpc-mad audio/fpc-mad/files audio/fpc-modpl...

Author: marino
Date: Sat Dec  5 23:29:36 2015
New Revision: 403082
URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/ports/403082

Log:
  FPC ecosystem: Upgrade version 2.6.4 => 3.0.0
  
  This is the first major release of FreePascal in nearly four years.
  There are a ton of new features, way more to list here. see:
  http://wiki.freepascal.org/FPC_New_Features_3.0
  
  Several new unit ports were added, some were contracted.  Most of
  those were absorbed into the main FPC packages, but two units are
  no longer supported: sndfile and matroshka.
  
  All 99 remaining ports (including Lazarus ports) were build tested
  on FreeBSD i386 and amd64 Release 10.2

- End forwarded message -

RE: Appraisal for Donation

[Cynde Moya]

Here's a couple of professional appraisers who know computers:

Christopher Morgan Consulting 
587 Tremont Street
Boston, MA   02118

AND

Jeremy Norman
HistoryofScience.com
HistoryofInformation.com
BookHistory.net
Jeremy Norman & Co., Inc.
 
Mail: P.O. Box 867
Novato, CA 94948
 
UPS, FedEx, DHL:
936-B Seventh St., PMB 238
Novato, CA 94945-3010
 
Tel: 415-892-3181
Cell: 415-225-3954


Cynde


-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pontus Pihlgren
Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2015 7:48 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Appraisal for Donation

I'm not sure what you are asking. But a PDP-12 sold north of 15k dollars:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161199469414

/P

On Sun, Dec 06, 2015 at 09:16:45AM -0500, Michael Thompson wrote:
> The PDP-12 donor to the RICM needs an appraisal for the charitable donation.
> I already suggested Vintage Tech.
> Any other suggestions?
> 
> --
> Michael Thompson

Re: Evotek Winchester Harddisk

[Al Kossow]

On 12/7/15 3:54 AM, Oliver Lehmann wrote:


And - I found nothing "compatible" so far to replace them with other
harddisks.


It looks similar to the SA1000 interface.  Memorex 112/Fujitsu 2301?
Fujitsu drives were used in Morrow 8" disk units.

Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Oliver Lehmann]

Hi,

OK, i tried now to set Drive/Head first before I set all the other
registers. No success.
I then added a 10ms delay after the data is set for each register,
disable /WR and then wait another 10ms before I execute the next
register.
I also added status checks after each register setting. It stays 0x50
everytime I check it and just after I issue the command it goes to
0x59.

Feel a bit clueless here :/

Oliver


Oliver Lehmann  wrote:


Hi Toby,

Toby Thain  wrote:


I think Jon is probably on to something.

You can check out the delays in my PIO bit-banging code here:
http://www.telegraphics.com.au/svn/picide/trunk/

I tested it on a few drives & spent a lot of quality time with the  
spec...of course I can't guarantee it would work for your specific  
drive, but it might give you a clue where a delay is missing.


I think that what goes wrong in my code is the pure reading/writing
stuff since the IDENTIFY command works without any problem. So I
checked checked your ASM code for the PIC specific for that purpose.

From what I see in "ide_lbacmd" in ide.asm, you wait for BSY and DRQ
to get low, via "ide_devselect", then issue the drive+head register,
wait again for BSY and DRQ still in  "ide_devselect" . Then, back in
"ide_lbacmd" you issue the other sector/cyl/head registers. Right
after that you issue the command to execute without any further
waiting.

Now is the point where I get the error bit - so how the data is read
is probably not important here.

I'll tra to "redo" your code tonight, but beside that you issue the
drive+head first and I do just before I issue the command, I don't
see a big difference here.

I wonder if I could query the drive for the sector/cyl/head data it
works with to see if they where recieved correctly. I guess it just
gets invalid data for at least one of this so it response with ERR
for any read or write command because of "invalid addressing" (I
think).
Do you know if there is a way to find out what sector/cyl/head the
drive tried to process the command?

Regards,
Oliver