Re: Importing a PDP-8 from Canada

[Marc Howard via cctalk]

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/375/~/duty-on-u.s.-made-goods-returning-to-the-u.s
.

Kinda echos my experience.  Unless the PDP-8 has been
"improved" I don't think you'll have any problems.

Marc

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 7:51 PM, william degnan via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> That's what I did, became my own brokerage, and as a broker ran through fed
> ex.  I declared the items as props for a movie.
>
> Bill Degnan
> twitter: billdeg
> vintagecomputer.net
> On Jul 31, 2017 10:36 PM, "Adrian Stoness via cctech" <
> cct...@classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
> > call a broker
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 9:35 PM, Ian McLaughlin via cctech <
> > cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > > There may be no duties or tariffs, however you may have to pay sales
> > taxes
> > > on the value of the machine, so make sure you have paperwork showing
> how
> > > much you paid for the machine, or paperwork showing it is a gift.
> > >
> > > (This is the case for me bringing in hardware from the USA into Canada)
> > >
> > > Ian
> > >
> > > > On Jul 31, 2017, at 7:22 PM, Marc Howard via cctech <
> > > cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I had a similar issue many years back (re)importing a pinball machine
> > > from
> > > > Canada.  It was held in customs for a few hours (they thought it was
> a
> > > > gambling machine) until I casually mentioned that it was built in
> > > > Bensonville, IL and say so on the playfield.  No problems after that.
> > > >
> > > > If you're re-importing something that was previously made in the USA
> > then
> > > > there are no customs duties.
> > > >
> > > > Marc
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech <
> > > > cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> The RICM has an opportunity to get a PDP-8/M (built in Maynard, MA)
> > > that is
> > > >> in Canada. I remember that there was a discussion on the procedure
> > here,
> > > >> but I can't find it with Google.
> > > >>
> > > >> Can you either point me to the discussion, or tell me what the
> > procedure
> > > >> is?
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Michael Thompson
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam
> > > here:   http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=
> > > 3FB1C53E766011E7AD1CEA3A93ED0201
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Importing a PDP-8 from Canada

[Ian McLaughlin via cctalk]

There may be no duties or tariffs, however you may have to pay sales taxes on 
the value of the machine, so make sure you have paperwork showing how much you 
paid for the machine, or paperwork showing it is a gift.

(This is the case for me bringing in hardware from the USA into Canada)

Ian

> On Jul 31, 2017, at 7:22 PM, Marc Howard via cctech  
> wrote:
> 
> I had a similar issue many years back (re)importing a pinball machine from
> Canada.  It was held in customs for a few hours (they thought it was a
> gambling machine) until I casually mentioned that it was built in
> Bensonville, IL and say so on the playfield.  No problems after that.
> 
> If you're re-importing something that was previously made in the USA then
> there are no customs duties.
> 
> Marc
> 
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech <
> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
>> The RICM has an opportunity to get a PDP-8/M (built in Maynard, MA) that is
>> in Canada. I remember that there was a discussion on the procedure here,
>> but I can't find it with Google.
>> 
>> Can you either point me to the discussion, or tell me what the procedure
>> is?
>> 
>> --
>> Michael Thompson
>> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam here:   
> http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=3FB1C53E766011E7AD1CEA3A93ED0201

Re: Importing a PDP-8 from Canada

[william degnan via cctalk]

I set up an import license with my company using FedEx, that's how I
imported 25 IBM PC's through customs from Canada to USA.  Not sure if I can
help, but I still have the set up it took about 4 hours to complete.

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:22 PM, Marc Howard via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I had a similar issue many years back (re)importing a pinball machine from
> Canada.  It was held in customs for a few hours (they thought it was a
> gambling machine) until I casually mentioned that it was built in
> Bensonville, IL and say so on the playfield.  No problems after that.
>
> If you're re-importing something that was previously made in the USA then
> there are no customs duties.
>
> Marc
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech <
> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > The RICM has an opportunity to get a PDP-8/M (built in Maynard, MA) that
> is
> > in Canada. I remember that there was a discussion on the procedure here,
> > but I can't find it with Google.
> >
> > Can you either point me to the discussion, or tell me what the procedure
> > is?
> >
> > --
> > Michael Thompson
> >
>

Re: Importing a PDP-8 from Canada

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

I have a truckload coming in from Saskatchewan Canada within the next few
weeks.
Where is yours located?

Is it just the 8 box or cab? I can get it to VCFMW it that helps.

Paul

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 7:15 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> The RICM has an opportunity to get a PDP-8/M (built in Maynard, MA) that is
> in Canada. I remember that there was a discussion on the procedure here,
> but I can't find it with Google.
>
> Can you either point me to the discussion, or tell me what the procedure
> is?
>
> --
> Michael Thompson
>

Re: Importing a PDP-8 from Canada

[william degnan via cctalk]

That's what I did, became my own brokerage, and as a broker ran through fed
ex.  I declared the items as props for a movie.

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Jul 31, 2017 10:36 PM, "Adrian Stoness via cctech" 
wrote:

> call a broker
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 9:35 PM, Ian McLaughlin via cctech <
> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > There may be no duties or tariffs, however you may have to pay sales
> taxes
> > on the value of the machine, so make sure you have paperwork showing how
> > much you paid for the machine, or paperwork showing it is a gift.
> >
> > (This is the case for me bringing in hardware from the USA into Canada)
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > > On Jul 31, 2017, at 7:22 PM, Marc Howard via cctech <
> > cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I had a similar issue many years back (re)importing a pinball machine
> > from
> > > Canada.  It was held in customs for a few hours (they thought it was a
> > > gambling machine) until I casually mentioned that it was built in
> > > Bensonville, IL and say so on the playfield.  No problems after that.
> > >
> > > If you're re-importing something that was previously made in the USA
> then
> > > there are no customs duties.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech <
> > > cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> The RICM has an opportunity to get a PDP-8/M (built in Maynard, MA)
> > that is
> > >> in Canada. I remember that there was a discussion on the procedure
> here,
> > >> but I can't find it with Google.
> > >>
> > >> Can you either point me to the discussion, or tell me what the
> procedure
> > >> is?
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Michael Thompson
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam
> > here:   http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=
> > 3FB1C53E766011E7AD1CEA3A93ED0201
> >
> >
>

Re: Importing a PDP-8 from Canada

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

call a broker

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 9:35 PM, Ian McLaughlin via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> There may be no duties or tariffs, however you may have to pay sales taxes
> on the value of the machine, so make sure you have paperwork showing how
> much you paid for the machine, or paperwork showing it is a gift.
>
> (This is the case for me bringing in hardware from the USA into Canada)
>
> Ian
>
> > On Jul 31, 2017, at 7:22 PM, Marc Howard via cctech <
> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > I had a similar issue many years back (re)importing a pinball machine
> from
> > Canada.  It was held in customs for a few hours (they thought it was a
> > gambling machine) until I casually mentioned that it was built in
> > Bensonville, IL and say so on the playfield.  No problems after that.
> >
> > If you're re-importing something that was previously made in the USA then
> > there are no customs duties.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech <
> > cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> The RICM has an opportunity to get a PDP-8/M (built in Maynard, MA)
> that is
> >> in Canada. I remember that there was a discussion on the procedure here,
> >> but I can't find it with Google.
> >>
> >> Can you either point me to the discussion, or tell me what the procedure
> >> is?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Michael Thompson
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam
> here:   http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=
> 3FB1C53E766011E7AD1CEA3A93ED0201
>
>

Re: Importing a PDP-8 from Canada

[Marc Howard via cctalk]

I had a similar issue many years back (re)importing a pinball machine from
Canada.  It was held in customs for a few hours (they thought it was a
gambling machine) until I casually mentioned that it was built in
Bensonville, IL and say so on the playfield.  No problems after that.

If you're re-importing something that was previously made in the USA then
there are no customs duties.

Marc

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> The RICM has an opportunity to get a PDP-8/M (built in Maynard, MA) that is
> in Canada. I remember that there was a discussion on the procedure here,
> but I can't find it with Google.
>
> Can you either point me to the discussion, or tell me what the procedure
> is?
>
> --
> Michael Thompson
>

Re: Importing a PDP-8 from Canada

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> The RICM has an opportunity to get a PDP-8/M (built in Maynard, MA) that is
> in Canada. I remember that there was a discussion on the procedure here,
> but I can't find it with Google.
>

If it is actually bears a label stating the origin as the US, then there's
nothing special to do, other than show that label to the customs official
if they don't take your word for it.

Importing a PDP-8 from Canada

[Michael Thompson via cctalk]

The RICM has an opportunity to get a PDP-8/M (built in Maynard, MA) that is
in Canada. I remember that there was a discussion on the procedure here,
but I can't find it with Google.

Can you either point me to the discussion, or tell me what the procedure is?

-- 
Michael Thompson

VCF needs shelving

[Evan Koblentz via cctalk]

VCF needs more shelving for our 7,000 square foot warehouse in New Jersey.

Right now only about 5% of our library (books, magazines, manuals, etc.) 
is sorted/organized and available for researchers.


In the warehouse we have a couple of dozen shelving units full of 
bankers boxes of printed material -- and we're about to get a truckload 
more from Archive.org's Jason Scott.


Please consider making a contribution so we can purchase more shelving. 
As always, contributions to VCF are tax-deductible.


http://vcfed.org/wp/contribute/

Thank you,
Evan K.

Re: PDP-11: DR11-C to FPGA or 1284?

[Don North via cctalk]

On 7/31/2017 2:52 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk
 wrote:

On Jul 31, 2017, at 8:19 AM, Jay Jaeger  wrote:
I have Ethernet shield for my Arduino Uno, and I use that and a simple
(in my case, perl,  program to talk to the final destination device.  I
have two cables, one for each direction, from the DR11-C (not using DMA)
to the Arduino.

Jay, does your Arduino support TTL-level signaling, or did you have to use some 
level-shifting chips?

"Arduino" covers a lot of hardware, but in the case of the Uno and
Mega (and many other models), the GPIO pins are CMOS-level (5V Vcc,
but CMOS thresholds, not TTL).  Not a massive fanout, but a few mA per
pin - at least one TTL load.  You can't drive 8 LEDs from one port,
but you can sink 1-2 LEDs on the same port (the specifics are well
covered in the Atmel datasheets for each processor).


I'm more familiar with FPGA platforms than Arduino, but this might give me a 
good excuse to finally play around with Arduino a bit!

I know there are people here who are not fond of them for various
reasons (some non-technical), but I do a lot of quick-and-dirty things
with them.  They are frequently overkill, but with clones at $6 (and
licensed ones under $30), they do a lot.  Where you can run into
complications is trying to use all the Arduino library function calls
to, say, read and write I/O pins at megahertz speeds (the MCU is
routinely clocke at 16MHz or 20MHz, and mostly
one-instruction-per-cycle).  digitalWrite() and digitalRead() end up
executing hundreds, if not thousand of machine cycles.  You can, of
course, write in AVR assembler, but mostly, just banging on the
relevant DDR and Data registers in C works plenty fast enough, much,
much faster than the Arduino library calls.

TL;DR - the chips are fine.  The libraries are heavy.  Someone coming
from another architecture can get up to speed pretty quickly to read
and write bits and bytes from GPIO pins.

-ethan

Totally agree with the above comments. As an example, my RX02 drive emulator 
(runs on an Arduino Mega2560 with a custom interface shield) code is available 
here: https://github.com/AK6DN/rx02_emulator  as an example. Uses the SDcard 
library, and does very high speed bit banging on GPIO ports thru optimized C 
routines to act as an RX02 drive connected to RX11/RX211/RXV11/RXV21/RX8E-28 
interfaces in a PDP system.

Re: PDP-11: DR11-C to FPGA or 1284?

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk
 wrote:
>> On Jul 31, 2017, at 8:19 AM, Jay Jaeger  wrote:
>> I have Ethernet shield for my Arduino Uno, and I use that and a simple
>> (in my case, perl,  program to talk to the final destination device.  I
>> have two cables, one for each direction, from the DR11-C (not using DMA)
>> to the Arduino.
>
> Jay, does your Arduino support TTL-level signaling, or did you have to use 
> some level-shifting chips?

"Arduino" covers a lot of hardware, but in the case of the Uno and
Mega (and many other models), the GPIO pins are CMOS-level (5V Vcc,
but CMOS thresholds, not TTL).  Not a massive fanout, but a few mA per
pin - at least one TTL load.  You can't drive 8 LEDs from one port,
but you can sink 1-2 LEDs on the same port (the specifics are well
covered in the Atmel datasheets for each processor).

> I'm more familiar with FPGA platforms than Arduino, but this might give me a 
> good excuse to finally play around with Arduino a bit!

I know there are people here who are not fond of them for various
reasons (some non-technical), but I do a lot of quick-and-dirty things
with them.  They are frequently overkill, but with clones at $6 (and
licensed ones under $30), they do a lot.  Where you can run into
complications is trying to use all the Arduino library function calls
to, say, read and write I/O pins at megahertz speeds (the MCU is
routinely clocke at 16MHz or 20MHz, and mostly
one-instruction-per-cycle).  digitalWrite() and digitalRead() end up
executing hundreds, if not thousand of machine cycles.  You can, of
course, write in AVR assembler, but mostly, just banging on the
relevant DDR and Data registers in C works plenty fast enough, much,
much faster than the Arduino library calls.

TL;DR - the chips are fine.  The libraries are heavy.  Someone coming
from another architecture can get up to speed pretty quickly to read
and write bits and bytes from GPIO pins.

-ethan

Re: PDP-11: DR11-C to FPGA or 1284?

[Fritz Mueller via cctalk]

On 07/31/2017 12:15 PM, Don North wrote:
Arduino UNO (the 'original') and the Mega2560 big brother both use 5V 
I/O microprocessors, so all the I/O is directly 5V capable.


Awesome, that seems like the way to go, then -- just need to bodge the 
appropriate cables.  I'll check it out!


  --FritzM.

RE: Reset NVRAM on DECstation 5000/240

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: Maciej W. Rozycki [mailto:ma...@linux-mips.org]
> Sent: 31 July 2017 14:26
> To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; Rob Jarratt ; General
> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> Subject: Re: Reset NVRAM on DECstation 5000/240
> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> > I am trying to get my new 240 going. Unfortunately all the diagnostic
> > LEDs stay lit. From when I had a previous DECstation 5000/240 I found
> > a note that I fixed this by resetting the NVRAM with a jumper.
> >
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately I did not record which jumper where, and I can't find
> > mention of this in any of the docs I have. Can anyone tell me if it is
> > the jumper near the CPU daughterboard?
> 
>  It is.  Check the "DECstation/DECsystem 5000 Model 200 Series Maintenance
> Guide" (EK-PM38C-MG-002), available online.
> 

I have that manual. Having checked again I realise I should have searched
for "NVR" and not "NVRAM", then I would have found it!!

> > Also, can anyone tell me what the jumper on the base board under the
> > leftmost TURBOchannel slot might be (on the left when looking from the
> > back of the machine)?
> 
>  Technically it's wired to one of the 16 IOASIC external interrupt inputs,
which is
> otherwise unused.  Functionally it tells software whether the mainboard is
used
> in a 5000 or a 5900 system configuration.  I can dig out the exact details
if
> you're interested.


That would be interesting, if there is documentation that isn't generally
available it would be good to see it.


> 
>  BTW I saw your 5000/240 web page and I'm glad that you have rescued all
> that fine hardware.  Also I think you don't have to worry about the H7878
PSU --
> apparently none of the caps used in that model suffers from the dreaded
> quaternary ammonium salt issue.


Thanks. I will create a page describing the machine in the coming days, for
now it will just be the blog posting. I do think there is a problem with the
PSU though because it will be just sitting there in the console and power
off, you can't turn it back on until you pull out the power cord. I am going
to check the caps more closely.

> 
>  Last not least, I don't keep up with mailing list traffic, so for a
shorter RTT
> please feel free to CC me on any DECstation stuff.
> 
>  HTH,
> 
>   Maciej

Re: PDP-11: DR11-C to FPGA or 1284?

[Don North via cctalk]

On 7/31/2017 10:52 AM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote:

On Jul 31, 2017, at 8:19 AM, Jay Jaeger  wrote:

I have Ethernet shield for my Arduino Uno, and I use that and a simple
(in my case, perl,  program to talk to the final destination device.  I
have two cables, one for each direction, from the DR11-C (not using DMA)
to the Arduino.

Awesome -- it seemed likely somebody here would have done this sort of thing 
already :-)

Jay, does your Arduino support TTL-level signaling, or did you have to use some 
level-shifting chips?  How did you arrange the cabling/packaging?

I'm more familiar with FPGA platforms than Arduino, but this might give me a 
good excuse to finally play around with Arduino a bit!

--FritzM.


Arduino UNO (the 'original') and the Mega2560 big brother both use 5V I/O 
microprocessors, so all the I/O is directly 5V capable.


I happen to prefer the Mega2560 based design because it has a more capable CPU 
(lots more flash and RAM), 4 hardware serial ports, and lots of I/O (50+ pins) 
and it is not that much more expensive (based on Amazon clone suppliers; direct 
from Arduino .org suppliers it is priced way too high for the components it uses).


I used the Mega2560 in my RX01/02 emulator design, with a custom shield to 
interface to DEC standard RX11/211/8E 5V controllers using 5V logic. Works fine.


Arduino is pretty simple to program in more or less vanilla C if you want. The 
tools are freely downloadable from the web from www.arduino.cc

Re: PDP-11: DR11-C to FPGA or 1284?

[Fritz Mueller via cctalk]

> On Jul 31, 2017, at 11:30 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well, I'm confused now.  What do 16 bit paralel and ethernet have to do with 
> each other?

Nothing, directly; confusion created by poor quoting on my part, probably!  The 
goal is a higher-bandwidth and higher-convenience connection between the PDP-11 
and modern desktop compute.  So DR11 <-> Arduino <-> ethernet, as Jay has done, 
is one good approach.

--FritzM.

Did you use a Xerox Alto? Know anyone who did?

[Ian S. King via cctalk]

Hi all,

I'm principal investigator on a research project that encompasses the
history of the Xerox Alto workstation.  I'm trying to find people who
actually USED an Alto in the course of business/academics, i.e. writing
documents, sending emails and the like.  This is part of a set of
interviews intended to add the voices of non-inventor stakeholders to the
historical narrative.

Interviews to date have primarily been over Skype and last between a
half-hour and an hour, depending on how much the individual chooses to
share.  One may participate anonymously should you so choose.

This study is approved by the University of Washington Human Subjects
Review Board (IRB #42619) and an Informed Consent form will be provided
upon request or if you choose to participate.

Got stories to tell?  I'd love to hear 'em.  Please respond to me privately
at isk...@uw.edu.  Thanks -- Ian

PS:  I asked Jay for permission to post this.

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

RE: PDP-11: DR11-C to FPGA or 1284?

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Fritz Mueller via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 1:52 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: PDP-11: DR11-C to FPGA or 1284?

> On Jul 31, 2017, at 8:19 AM, Jay Jaeger  wrote:
>
> I have Ethernet shield for my Arduino Uno, and I use that and a simple
> (in my case, perl,  program to talk to the final destination device.  I
> have two cables, one for each direction, from the DR11-C (not using DMA)
> to the Arduino.

Awesome -- it seemed likely somebody here would have done this sort of thing 
already :-)

Jay, does your Arduino support TTL-level signaling, or did you have to use some 
level-shifting chips?  How did you arrange the cabling/packaging?

I'm more familiar with FPGA platforms than Arduino, but this might give me a 
good excuse to finally play around with Arduino a bit!

__

Well, I'm confused now.  What do 16 bit paralel and ethernet have to do with 
each other?

bill

Re: PDP-11: DR11-C to FPGA or 1284?

[Fritz Mueller via cctalk]

> On Jul 31, 2017, at 8:19 AM, Jay Jaeger  wrote:
> 
> I have Ethernet shield for my Arduino Uno, and I use that and a simple
> (in my case, perl,  program to talk to the final destination device.  I
> have two cables, one for each direction, from the DR11-C (not using DMA)
> to the Arduino.

Awesome -- it seemed likely somebody here would have done this sort of thing 
already :-)

Jay, does your Arduino support TTL-level signaling, or did you have to use some 
level-shifting chips?  How did you arrange the cabling/packaging?

I'm more familiar with FPGA platforms than Arduino, but this might give me a 
good excuse to finally play around with Arduino a bit!

--FritzM.

Re: Cleaning a board slightly oxydized ??

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 07/31/2017 10:18 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

> has anyone ever determined what the real active ingredient is in that
> stuff?
The MSDS is an exemplar for industrial obfuscation:

http://www.techni-tool.com/site/MSDS/218CH052.pdf

Composition?  It's all proprietary, so we can't tell you.
Toxicology?  We haven't tested it, but there's toxicological data for
some of the components--but we won't tell you what those are.

If your kid drinks this stuff, give him lots of water and don't bug us.

--Chuck

RE: Cleaning a board slightly oxydized ??

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william
> degnan via cctalk
> Sent: 31 July 2017 17:54
> To: Warner Losh ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-
> Topic Posts 
> Subject: Re: Cleaning a board slightly oxydized ??
> 
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On 07/31/2017 03:13 AM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk wrote:
> > >
> > >> AFAIK, common household and vinegar and citric acid are the same
> thing.
> > >> Can
> > >> you elaborate, please? O_O
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Vinegar is Acetic acid, Citric acid is Citric acid, a different
> > >> chemical
> > > compound.
> > >
> >
> > And there's often impurities in household vinegar, so you have to be a
> > little careful which ones you use for cleaning. Balsamic Vinegar, not
> > a good choice :). Though most of the white vinegars or concentrated
> > vinegars work well enough for cleaning.
> >

In Spain they sell cleaning vinegar, I think for removing limescale so perhaps 
not very free of contaminants...

Dave



> > Warner
> >
> 
> 
> DE-Oxit?

Re: Ontel 8" floppy disc drives cabinet

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 9/29/11 6:58 AM, Shoppa, Tim wrote:
> Probably from an Ontel OP-1 system in the late 70's or very early 80's.
> 
> The OP-1 was somewhere between a configurable terminal and a dedicated word 
> processor depending on firmware and peripherals installed. Peripherals did 
> include 8" floppies in the high end, I saw this being used in car dealerships 
> back in the early 80's as the front end to a central-office PDP-11 system.
> 
> There are at least a few other manufacturers that used 8" floppies on a DB25 
> cable. E.g. the RX01 cabinet kit for a WPS-8 system. I would not expect to 
> find any of them using compatible pinouts or even "interface concepts". E.g. 
> the RX01 is a dedicated serial bus with some smarts (or at least a state 
> machine) at the drives. The DSD-440 line used a different dedicated serial 
> bus (26 pin ribbon cable IDC's usually but I think I saw it routed over a 
> DB-25 at least once) and a microprocessor in the drive. I'm guessing your 
> board that sits between 50-pin Shugart and 25-pin connectors, doesn't have 
> much smarts, it probably just drops the many unused signal lines and 
> consolidates many of the grounds.
> 
> 
> 

thread from the dead..

was working on cleaning out a room full of boxes in storage, and found several 
dozen Ontel 8" floppy disks

also forgot I bought the manuals for the system, which I will put up as soon as 
I can get some more
disk space on bitsavers

does anyone have a system?

I see one person in the UK with the Telefunken version (Telecomp 5200)

http://www.randomorbit.co.uk/?cat=35

Re: Cleaning a board slightly oxydized ??

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 7/31/17 9:53 AM, william degnan via cctalk wrote:

> DE-Oxit?
> 
over an entire board?
seems like a really expensive solution to a simple problem
has anyone ever determined what the real active ingredient is in that stuff?

Re: Very Late RK07 battery pack location

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Jay Jaeger via cctech
 wrote:

> I did see one reference online from the December 1994 DECUServe Journal
> to the batteries being "in a clip holder under the center column of the
> drive".  One might take that to mean in the center area between the
> logic card cage and the power supply, forward of the circuit
> breaker/power cord entry.
>
> But before I tear into that, can anyone confirm that that is where they
> should be located?

That's where they are on both of my RK07s (I have no idea how late
mine are). You swing out the logic cage and feel around under the
mechanical deck. I think they are connected to one of the mate-n-lock
connectors in that area.

-tony

Re: Ibm rs6000 7025-f50

[Doc Shipley via cctalk]

On 7/26/17 8:33 PM, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote:


I emailed IBM regarding a license to do research with


IBM redid all their websites a few years ago, and finding information
about systems older than Power7 has become ... challenging.

They're ... uh, not going to respond to you.  IMHO.


TL;DR:
Mr. Linimon is probably right.

  In... 1998? I bought a 43P 133 "Carolina" system off Ebay, with the 
intention of learning AIX.  At the time, IBM had offered v4.3.2 "free" 
for educational use, so I was confident that I would have no problem 
obtaining license and media.


  There was no link or instructions in that announcement page on their 
website to actually avail myself of the offer, so I called IBM Sales, 
RS/6000 Group.


  No person in the RS/6000 sales group had ever heard of that 
promotional program.  I logged about 15 hours on the phone with them, 
over the space of two weeks.  EVERY conversation went like this:


 "AIX? What is one of your machines' serial number?  We need that to 
access your support contract."

 
  Then "That RS/6000 is registered to ."
 
  "You bought it on *EBAY*???"
 
  "We don't SELL AIX.  The license and media are included in your 
support contract."

 
  "What do you mean 'free for educational use'...?"

  I eventually located a manager who would give me an email address so 
that I could send this IBM employee, whose job was providing service and 
goods to RS/6000 customers, a link to the web page on ibm.com that 
described the Educational AIX Licensing Program.


  Two or 3 weeks later I received in the mail a 17-page contract 
detailing my obligation to give them a kidney and both pinky toes if I 
dared use my RS/6000 for profit.  I signed it, had it notarized, and 
mailed it back.  Two weeks after that I received a 6-page license 
document and a shiny, shiny set of AIX CDs from IBM.



  I swear this is no exaggeration.  To date, I have never located 
another person who was able to get AIX media through that educational 
program.



Doc

Very Late RK07 battery pack location

[Jay Jaeger via cctalk]

I have a puzzlement.  I have two very late (apparently) model RK07
drives on my PDP-11/24.  As part of an overall search for corroded
battery packs, I went looking for them on the RK07.  But my drives don't
seem to match the Illustrated Parts Breakdown for either early or late
model RK07 drives.

I expected to find the batteries just forward of the logic card cage
area, but there is nothing there.  Also, BOTH of the ones in the IPB
(designated early and late) seem to have the CA transition bracket near
the very rear of the drive.  Mine is about 8 inches forward of the rear
just to the left of the center area between the power supply and logic
card cage areas.

I did see one reference online from the December 1994 DECUServe Journal
to the batteries being "in a clip holder under the center column of the
drive".  One might take that to mean in the center area between the
logic card cage and the power supply, forward of the circuit
breaker/power cord entry.

But before I tear into that, can anyone confirm that that is where they
should be located?

Thanks.

JRJ

Re: Cleaning a board slightly oxydized ??

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 07/31/2017 09:24 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:

> And there's often impurities in household vinegar, so you have to be
> a little careful which ones you use for cleaning. Balsamic Vinegar,
> not a good choice :). Though most of the white vinegars or
> concentrated vinegars work well enough for cleaning.

The stuff for cleaning (and making pickles) is usually identified as
"Distilled White Vinegar".

Citric acid, unlike acetic acid, occurs as a white crystalline powder,
which makes it convenient to store.   Just dissolve in the appropriate
volume of water for use (cleaning lime scale or making lemonade).

--Chuck

Re: Cleaning a board slightly oxydized ??

[william degnan via cctalk]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > On 07/31/2017 03:13 AM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk wrote:
> >
> >> AFAIK, common household and vinegar and citric acid are the same thing.
> >> Can
> >> you elaborate, please? O_O
> >>
> >>
> >> Vinegar is Acetic acid, Citric acid is Citric acid, a different chemical
> > compound.
> >
>
> And there's often impurities in household vinegar, so you have to be a
> little careful which ones you use for cleaning. Balsamic Vinegar, not a
> good choice :). Though most of the white vinegars or concentrated vinegars
> work well enough for cleaning.
>
> Warner
>


DE-Oxit?

Re: Cleaning a board slightly oxydized ??

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 07/31/2017 03:13 AM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk wrote:
>
>> AFAIK, common household and vinegar and citric acid are the same thing.
>> Can
>> you elaborate, please? O_O
>>
>>
>> Vinegar is Acetic acid, Citric acid is Citric acid, a different chemical
> compound.
>

And there's often impurities in household vinegar, so you have to be a
little careful which ones you use for cleaning. Balsamic Vinegar, not a
good choice :). Though most of the white vinegars or concentrated vinegars
work well enough for cleaning.

Warner

Re: Cambridge Workstation woes - VMS 2691 PSU smoke

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 8:17 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:
> On 07/30/2017 11:28 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
>>

>> I certainly traced out the schematics of mine, but I forget which PSU was
>> fitted to my machine (something tells me it was made by Farnell).
>
>
> That could well be - I do think that I've seen another type of PSU used in
> addition to the VMS one, and Farnell would be an obvious choice.

By chance I came across the diagrams today. The PSU in my
Cambridge Workstation was made by Zenith. So I guess the
diagrams aren;'t going to help for this.

-tony

Re: Cleaning a board slightly oxydized ??

[Alexandre Souza via cctalk]

AFAIK, common household and vinegar and citric acid are the same thing. Can
you elaborate, please? O_O

2017-07-31 5:01 GMT-03:00 Christian Corti :

> On Sun, 30 Jul 2017, Alexandre Souza wrote:
>
>> Light green? Was it battery electrolyte? Wash it with vinegar (yes,
>> vinegar) and after, wash with a good detergent and warm water.
>>
>
> No, *not* vinegar. Use citric acid. You don't want to force the formation
> of copper acetate.
>
> Christian
>

Re: Cleaning a board slightly oxydized ??

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017, Alexandre Souza wrote:

Light green? Was it battery electrolyte? Wash it with vinegar (yes,
vinegar) and after, wash with a good detergent and warm water.


No, *not* vinegar. Use citric acid. You don't want to force the formation 
of copper acetate.


Christian

Re: PDP-11: DR11-C to FPGA or 1284?

[Don North via cctalk]

On 7/30/2017 7:47 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote:

So, I have lately been using PDP11GUI to retrieve images of RK05 disk packs and 
to write images to these packs on a PDP-11.  This is awesome, but its a bit 
frustrating that it takes a couple hours to read or write an image this way.

I do, however, have a couple of DR11-C parallel interface cards.  It occurred 
to me that it might be pretty straightforward to interface one of these to an 
FPGA eval card, and this would give me a much higher-bandwidth way to move data 
on and off the PDP-11 (in fact, the RK11 could even be run in 
non-increment-address-mode pointed at the DR11-C, which would be pretty speedy.)

Another approach might be to interface the DR11 directly to a 1284-to-USB 
adapter.  This would only be eight bits wide, so you couldn't use the direct 
RK11/DR11 NPR hack, but it would still be a lot faster than 9600 baud serial.

Before I put too much thought into either of these, I thought I'd ping here to 
see if anybody else has already interfaced a DR11 in either of these two ways?

 cheers,
   --FritzM.


Or interface the DR11-C parallel port to an Arduino (I like the Mega2560 boards 
myself) that has an SDcard shield.


Then just write a bit of Arduino code to interface to the DR11-C port and write 
data to the SDcard using the SDfat library.


When done, just sneakernet the SDcard over to your PC and copy the files.

On the PDP-11 side just write a little macro11 program that reads all blocks of 
the disk and dumps them to the DR11-C, with appropriate handshaking, of course.


Don