Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Tony Aiuto]

Bob: I have not found any Gould software yet but last night I found a
packet of all the UTX-32 documentation on microfiche. When you are ready
for it, let me know how to mail it to you.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Al Kossow  wrote:

> There are some new scans up now for 32/75 on bitsavers.org/pdf/sel and
> some software
> under bits/SEL
>
> I'll be working on MPX documentation next
>
>
> On 10/14/16 7:29 PM, Tony Aiuto wrote:
>
> > Bob: I may have a lot of software for it, if I can find the tapes and
> they
> > are still readable. I even got hold of their secret C compiler port.
> >
>
>

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Al Kossow]

There are some new scans up now for 32/75 on bitsavers.org/pdf/sel and some 
software
under bits/SEL

I'll be working on MPX documentation next


On 10/14/16 7:29 PM, Tony Aiuto wrote:

> Bob: I may have a lot of software for it, if I can find the tapes and they
> are still readable. I even got hold of their secret C compiler port.
> 

Re: NWA auctions

[Todd Goodman]

* Noel Chiappa  [161013 16:37]:
> > From: Jim Stephens
> 
> > The two bay 11/45 went for twice the bid, since it was listed as 2 pcs
> > @ 1500 each
> 
> Yeah, I couldn't quite work that out - did it mean there were two mostly
> identical ones, and they only had pictures of one, or did it mean 'two racks'?
> 
>   Noel

Well, I have to confess that I won both those auctions.

I thought originally when I was bidding that it was two identical
systems (of two racks each) but now I think it just meant the two racks
pictured.  So I got half of what I was expecting for my bid.

Not to mention I really shouldn't have been bidding at all in the first
place.  It was just too tempting to pass up.

Todd

Re: NWA auctions (GP-4, SEL 32)

[Cory Heisterkamp]

On Oct 13, 2016, at 9:33 AM, William Maddox wrote:

> This looks like a GP-4, though I am suspicious that parts of it have been 
> modernized.   The GP-4 had a drum memory.
> 
> https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/aspr/Genal-Precision-Systems-2-door-avionics-cabinets/32464723/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464723
> 
> Someone should grab the SEL machines:
> 
> https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/aspr/Simulator-avionics-cabinet/32464645/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464645
> 
> There are a few 3C cards in the pallets of parts, and a few can be seen in 
> the 7th photo here:
> 
> https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/aspr/2-door-avionics-cabinets/32464736/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464736
> 
> Computer Control Company machines (e.g. DDP-124) were widely used in 
> simulators in the mid/late 1960s, when many simulators for aircraft of that 
> vintage were built.
> The computer itself is nowhere in sight, however.  Probably, all that remains 
> are specialized simulator interfaces, with the PC in the last photo doing the 
> computing.  :(
> 
> --Bill
> 
> 

Did anyone on the list grab the GP-4? I just returned from the NWA center and 
while claiming my Documation reader I had a chance to look around the room (and 
there are LOTS of computer rooms there). That GP is an absolute beast, 3 rows 
of interconnected cabinets full of circuit cards and power supplies. The name 
plate says it was originally sold to Continental Airlines. The drum has been 
replaced with a solid state emulator and it looks like the core may have also 
been upgraded. What I also noticed were piles of books, binders, and file 
cabinets full of system documentation including original schematics and system 
diagrams. I sure hope those weren't sold as separate lots.

There also appeared to be more DEC related equipment than I recall on the 
auction site, or perhaps sold under ambiguous lot names. Any PDP buyer(s) 
should have a good look around that computer room for associated documents, 
PCBs, binders, etc. for the sold systems before the paperwork gets tossed.  -C 

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Tony Aiuto]

Yes. The 8 & 9 machines were ECL, the rest were TTL.  IIRC, those were the
32/87, 9780, PN9600.

David mentioned disks on the PN (Unix) series. Those were formatted with
multiple of 512 byte sectors. The RTM/MPX machines used 768 byte sectors,
which was super optimal for the disks they happened to ship with their
earliest machines, but then a right PITA for everyone who used the machines
for decades beyond that. It was not just the strange size, but I think the
minimal disk allocation unit was something like 16K, and you only got 8 or
16 chances to add new segments to that. You better know how big your file
would grow before you started writing.

It's all slowly leaking back into my brain. The early machines, were number
32/xx and ran RTM, their Real Time Monitor. The xx was, IIRC, 27, 75, 77,
87. Very much process control oriented. A terminal *could* be hooked up to
an editor task that could edit code and submit jobs, but then it could not
detach and let you interact with another program. The company I worked for
hacked up a task swapping capability on top of it so we could actually get
work done.  That was 1976 or so.

Around 1982?, they added an MMU and introduced MPX, the Mapped Programming
Executive. That was much more usable, but still with the problematic disk
layout. I think the numbering changed then to x7nn, where X was the overall
technology and nn was a size within that. I know there was an 8750, 8780,
9780, 6780, 2750, and 7750. Those were the MPX machines. The UTX (Unix)
machines replaced the 7 with a 0, giving David his PN9080 and PN6050.

For unrelated reasons, I have to clean my basement today. Who knows what I
will dig up.




On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:07 PM, ANDY HOLT  wrote:

>
>
> - Original Message -
> > From: "David Brownlee" 
> >
>
> > We had a PN9080 and PN6040 at City University as the main systems in the
> > late 90's
> Ah, yes, "The Magic Roundabout" - was three 6040s and one 9080. I still
> possess the Gould nameplate from the 9000.
> They were the last machines we had that we though of as mainframes (even
> if many would call them minis - but I think the racks were wider than 19"
> so they clearly weren't minis!)
>
> There's some interest in the story of how this system came together:
> we did have a Honeywell dual 66/60 which was supplemented by the 9000 as
> a time-sharing system when we had had it 5 years.
> After two more years we calculated that we could buy and maintain the
> trio of 6000s for less than the maintenance cost for the three years
> that the Honeywell was due to remain and gain a noiceable increase in
> computing power (and a noticeable decrease in power consumption) by
> doing so … and actually managed to convince the bean counters of this.
>
> > (accessed via the usual mix of ADM3As, ADM5s, some Sun3s and a
> > whole bunch of Whitechapel MG-1s, ans some colour terminals of which I
> > cannot recall the name, but I remember them having a setting where they
> > would auto colour characters based on their clas - alpha one colour,
> > numbers another, and two or three other colours for the rest of ASCII)
>
> I also forget what those colour terminals were. The first Sun came along
> when it turned out that it was cheaper to buy it and an Ada* compiler than
> the Ada for the Honeywell.
> * Computer Science /insisted/ they needed an Ada compiler.
> They never used it - but the Sun was useful :-)
>
> > When the CS department finally moved away from their own 6040 it was left
> > forgotten in a room over the summer - in the autumn the aircon was found
> to
> > have failed, overflowed and the machine was sitting there with water all
> > over the floor and in a steam bath. Still running fine.
>
> Don't remember that - but certainly believable
>
> > Quite robust that ECL :)
> Um, I don't think the 6000s were ECL - think they were a reimplementation
> of
> the 9000 using cheaper technology - probably whatever was the current
> "state of the art" TTL (don't think CMOS had taken-over for speed yet)
>
> Thanks, Abs, for reminding me of those times.
>
> Andy
>

RE: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Rick Bensene]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Aiuto
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 7:29 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

I used most of the SEL/Gould/Encore machines.  The 32/77 was an original SEL 
design, from before Gould bought them. It ran MPX-32, their real-time OS. TTL 
based. The 32/87 was ECL, in a much bigger cabinet. They made slight hardware 
changes to the 32/77 and 32/75 and released them as the PowerNode PN7000 and 
PN5000, which ran UTX-32, their Unix port. IIRC, we took a few 77's and changed 
one board in the chassis to turn them into PowerNodes.

The instruction set was more RISC-y than CISC-y. The floating point was base 16 
exponent rather than base 2. Because of the way they did normalization, there 
were a lot of bit patterns which were impossible results. I made a lot of use 
of those to represent special values.

I'm glad it was saved.

Bob: I may have a lot of software for it, if I can find the tapes and they are 
still readable. I even got hold of their secret C compiler port.



On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:43 AM, Al Kossow <a...@bitsavers.org> wrote:

> I have been given an lot of SEL software and documentation, along with 
> a simulator Now, I need to get off my butt and put it all on line.
>
> Thank you for saving the system, Bob.
>
> On 10/13/16 8:34 PM, Bob Rosenbloom wrote:
> > On 10/13/2016 9:01 AM, Rick Bensene wrote:
> >>> I'm curious what the Systems 32/77 is..
> >>> Wasn't Gould SEL?  maybe an SEL system?
> >>
> >> The 32/77-series was a 32-bit machine implemented in ECL, based on 
> >> earlier SEL designs, but is definitely Gould in design/manufacture.
> >>
> >> Some of the machines in the series had a very powerful (for the 
> >> time) floating point unit (known as the IPU) that operated in 
> >> tandem with the main CPU that vastly increased the number-crunching 
> >> power available
> >>
> >> The machines were mainly intended for real-time control 
> >> applications (as used in the flight sim applications in the 
> >> auction)
> >>
> >> The machine ran a real-time executive called MPX-32.
> >>
> >> More information: http://www.encore-support.com/htmls/32_77.htm
> >>
> >> Years ago, I had some experience with these machines.  They were 
> >> quite powerful for their time, and were also workhorses that just ran and 
> >> ran.
> >> Very robust design.
> >>
> >> These are neat machines, and I hope that they end up in the hands 
> >> of someone that can care for them rather than ending up scrap.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Rick Bensene
> >> The Old Calculator Museum
> >> http://oldcalculatormuseum.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > Well... with a momentary lapse of reason, I bought the Gould / SEL
> system. It won't go to scrap.
> > No idea how I'm going to get it, and what I'm going to do with it, 
> > but
> after reading about it last night,
> > I thought it might be fun to play with. We'll see...
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[ANDY HOLT]

- Original Message -
> From: "David Brownlee" 
>

> We had a PN9080 and PN6040 at City University as the main systems in the
> late 90's 
Ah, yes, "The Magic Roundabout" - was three 6040s and one 9080. I still
possess the Gould nameplate from the 9000.
They were the last machines we had that we though of as mainframes (even
if many would call them minis - but I think the racks were wider than 19"
so they clearly weren't minis!)

There's some interest in the story of how this system came together:
we did have a Honeywell dual 66/60 which was supplemented by the 9000 as
a time-sharing system when we had had it 5 years. 
After two more years we calculated that we could buy and maintain the 
trio of 6000s for less than the maintenance cost for the three years 
that the Honeywell was due to remain and gain a noiceable increase in
computing power (and a noticeable decrease in power consumption) by 
doing so … and actually managed to convince the bean counters of this.

> (accessed via the usual mix of ADM3As, ADM5s, some Sun3s and a
> whole bunch of Whitechapel MG-1s, ans some colour terminals of which I
> cannot recall the name, but I remember them having a setting where they
> would auto colour characters based on their clas - alpha one colour,
> numbers another, and two or three other colours for the rest of ASCII)

I also forget what those colour terminals were. The first Sun came along
when it turned out that it was cheaper to buy it and an Ada* compiler than
the Ada for the Honeywell.
* Computer Science /insisted/ they needed an Ada compiler.
They never used it - but the Sun was useful :-)

> When the CS department finally moved away from their own 6040 it was left
> forgotten in a room over the summer - in the autumn the aircon was found to
> have failed, overflowed and the machine was sitting there with water all
> over the floor and in a steam bath. Still running fine.

Don't remember that - but certainly believable

> Quite robust that ECL :)
Um, I don't think the 6000s were ECL - think they were a reimplementation of
the 9000 using cheaper technology - probably whatever was the current 
"state of the art" TTL (don't think CMOS had taken-over for speed yet)

Thanks, Abs, for reminding me of those times.

Andy

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[David Brownlee]

On 15 October 2016 at 03:29, Tony Aiuto  wrote:

> I used most of the SEL/Gould/Encore machines.  The 32/77 was an original
> SEL design, from before Gould bought them. It ran MPX-32, their real-time
> OS. TTL based. The 32/87 was ECL, in a much bigger cabinet. They made
> slight hardware changes to the 32/77 and 32/75 and released them as the
> PowerNode PN7000 and PN5000, which ran UTX-32, their Unix port. IIRC, we
> took a few 77's and changed one board in the chassis to turn them into
> PowerNodes.
>

Random Gould side reference.

We had a PN9080 and PN6040 at City University as the main systems in the
late 90's (accessed via the usual mix of ADM3As, ADM5s, some Sun3s and a
whole bunch of Whitechapel MG-1s, ans some colour terminals of which I
cannot recall the name, but I remember them having a setting where they
would auto colour characters based on their clas - alpha one colour,
numbers another, and two or three other colours for the rest of ASCII)

I remember looking at the filesystem and thinking "Mmm, on disk formats
with 32 bit timestamps but with padding ready to be taken to 64 bit when
needed, nice future proofing".

When the CS department finally moved away from their own 6040 it was left
forgotten in a room over the summer - in the autumn the aircon was found to
have failed, overflowed and the machine was sitting there with water all
over the floor and in a steam bath. Still running fine. Quite robust that
ECL :)

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Rick Bensene

> Some of the machines in the series had a very powerful (for the time)
> floating point unit (known as the IPU) that operated in tandem with the
> main CPU 

I wonder if the machines in the auction had this?

Noel

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Bob Rosenbloom]

On 10/14/2016 7:29 PM, Tony Aiuto wrote:

I used most of the SEL/Gould/Encore machines.  The 32/77 was an original
SEL design, from before Gould bought them. It ran MPX-32, their real-time
OS. TTL based. The 32/87 was ECL, in a much bigger cabinet. They made
slight hardware changes to the 32/77 and 32/75 and released them as the
PowerNode PN7000 and PN5000, which ran UTX-32, their Unix port. IIRC, we
took a few 77's and changed one board in the chassis to turn them into
PowerNodes.

The instruction set was more RISC-y than CISC-y. The floating point was
base 16 exponent rather than base 2. Because of the way they did
normalization, there were a lot of bit patterns which were impossible
results. I made a lot of use of those to represent special values.

I'm glad it was saved.

Bob: I may have a lot of software for it, if I can find the tapes and they
are still readable. I even got hold of their secret C compiler port.


That's great! Might actually end up being a useful system. It will be 
interesting to see if any
peripherals are in the cabinets. Are they multiprocessor capable? The 
photos had two
control panels on one of the cabinets implying two systems, or two CPU's 
in the cabinet.


Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Tony Aiuto]

I used most of the SEL/Gould/Encore machines.  The 32/77 was an original
SEL design, from before Gould bought them. It ran MPX-32, their real-time
OS. TTL based. The 32/87 was ECL, in a much bigger cabinet. They made
slight hardware changes to the 32/77 and 32/75 and released them as the
PowerNode PN7000 and PN5000, which ran UTX-32, their Unix port. IIRC, we
took a few 77's and changed one board in the chassis to turn them into
PowerNodes.

The instruction set was more RISC-y than CISC-y. The floating point was
base 16 exponent rather than base 2. Because of the way they did
normalization, there were a lot of bit patterns which were impossible
results. I made a lot of use of those to represent special values.

I'm glad it was saved.

Bob: I may have a lot of software for it, if I can find the tapes and they
are still readable. I even got hold of their secret C compiler port.



On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:43 AM, Al Kossow  wrote:

> I have been given an lot of SEL software and documentation, along with a
> simulator
> Now, I need to get off my butt and put it all on line.
>
> Thank you for saving the system, Bob.
>
> On 10/13/16 8:34 PM, Bob Rosenbloom wrote:
> > On 10/13/2016 9:01 AM, Rick Bensene wrote:
> >>> I'm curious what the Systems 32/77 is..
> >>> Wasn't Gould SEL?  maybe an SEL system?
> >>
> >> The 32/77-series was a 32-bit machine implemented in ECL, based on
> >> earlier SEL designs, but is definitely Gould in design/manufacture.
> >>
> >> Some of the machines in the series had a very powerful (for the time)
> >> floating point unit (known as the IPU) that operated in tandem with the
> >> main CPU that vastly increased the number-crunching power available
> >>
> >> The machines were mainly intended for real-time control applications (as
> >> used in the flight sim applications in the auction)
> >>
> >> The machine ran a real-time executive called MPX-32.
> >>
> >> More information: http://www.encore-support.com/htmls/32_77.htm
> >>
> >> Years ago, I had some experience with these machines.  They were quite
> >> powerful for their time, and were also workhorses that just ran and ran.
> >> Very robust design.
> >>
> >> These are neat machines, and I hope that they end up in the hands of
> >> someone that can care for them rather than ending up scrap.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Rick Bensene
> >> The Old Calculator Museum
> >> http://oldcalculatormuseum.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > Well... with a momentary lapse of reason, I bought the Gould / SEL
> system. It won't go to scrap.
> > No idea how I'm going to get it, and what I'm going to do with it, but
> after reading about it last night,
> > I thought it might be fun to play with. We'll see...
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Al Kossow]

I have been given an lot of SEL software and documentation, along with a 
simulator
Now, I need to get off my butt and put it all on line.

Thank you for saving the system, Bob.

On 10/13/16 8:34 PM, Bob Rosenbloom wrote:
> On 10/13/2016 9:01 AM, Rick Bensene wrote:
>>> I'm curious what the Systems 32/77 is..
>>> Wasn't Gould SEL?  maybe an SEL system?
>>
>> The 32/77-series was a 32-bit machine implemented in ECL, based on
>> earlier SEL designs, but is definitely Gould in design/manufacture.
>>
>> Some of the machines in the series had a very powerful (for the time)
>> floating point unit (known as the IPU) that operated in tandem with the
>> main CPU that vastly increased the number-crunching power available
>>
>> The machines were mainly intended for real-time control applications (as
>> used in the flight sim applications in the auction)
>>
>> The machine ran a real-time executive called MPX-32.
>>
>> More information: http://www.encore-support.com/htmls/32_77.htm
>>
>> Years ago, I had some experience with these machines.  They were quite
>> powerful for their time, and were also workhorses that just ran and ran.
>> Very robust design.
>>
>> These are neat machines, and I hope that they end up in the hands of
>> someone that can care for them rather than ending up scrap.
>>
>> -- 
>> Rick Bensene
>> The Old Calculator Museum
>> http://oldcalculatormuseum.com
>>
> 
> 
> Well... with a momentary lapse of reason, I bought the Gould / SEL system. It 
> won't go to scrap.
> No idea how I'm going to get it, and what I'm going to do with it, but after 
> reading about it last night,
> I thought it might be fun to play with. We'll see...
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Josh Dersch]

On 10/13/16 8:34 PM, Bob Rosenbloom wrote:


On 10/13/2016 9:01 AM, Rick Bensene wrote:

I'm curious what the Systems 32/77 is..
Wasn't Gould SEL?  maybe an SEL system?


The 32/77-series was a 32-bit machine implemented in ECL, based on
earlier SEL designs, but is definitely Gould in design/manufacture.

Some of the machines in the series had a very powerful (for the time)
floating point unit (known as the IPU) that operated in tandem with the
main CPU that vastly increased the number-crunching power available

The machines were mainly intended for real-time control applications (as
used in the flight sim applications in the auction)

The machine ran a real-time executive called MPX-32.

More information: http://www.encore-support.com/htmls/32_77.htm

Years ago, I had some experience with these machines.  They were quite
powerful for their time, and were also workhorses that just ran and ran.
Very robust design.

These are neat machines, and I hope that they end up in the hands of
someone that can care for them rather than ending up scrap.

--
Rick Bensene
The Old Calculator Museum
http://oldcalculatormuseum.com




Well... with a momentary lapse of reason, I bought the Gould / SEL 
system. It won't go to scrap.
No idea how I'm going to get it, and what I'm going to do with it, but 
after reading about it last night,

I thought it might be fun to play with. We'll see...


Very nice!  Glad it's not going to scrappers, I was seriously debating 
bidding on one of the two systems but I just don't have the room.  I'd 
love to see pictures of this thing once you manage to get it back to 
your place.


- Josh




Bob

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Mark Linimon]

congrats!

mcl

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Bob Rosenbloom]

On 10/13/2016 9:01 AM, Rick Bensene wrote:

I'm curious what the Systems 32/77 is..
Wasn't Gould SEL?  maybe an SEL system?


The 32/77-series was a 32-bit machine implemented in ECL, based on
earlier SEL designs, but is definitely Gould in design/manufacture.

Some of the machines in the series had a very powerful (for the time)
floating point unit (known as the IPU) that operated in tandem with the
main CPU that vastly increased the number-crunching power available

The machines were mainly intended for real-time control applications (as
used in the flight sim applications in the auction)

The machine ran a real-time executive called MPX-32.

More information: http://www.encore-support.com/htmls/32_77.htm

Years ago, I had some experience with these machines.  They were quite
powerful for their time, and were also workhorses that just ran and ran.
Very robust design.

These are neat machines, and I hope that they end up in the hands of
someone that can care for them rather than ending up scrap.

--
Rick Bensene
The Old Calculator Museum
http://oldcalculatormuseum.com




Well... with a momentary lapse of reason, I bought the Gould / SEL 
system. It won't go to scrap.
No idea how I'm going to get it, and what I'm going to do with it, but 
after reading about it last night,

I thought it might be fun to play with. We'll see...


Bob



--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: NWA auctions

[Chris Elmquist]

I mentioned to someone else that that 747-400 simulator is, umm, "famous",

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui

"Moussaoui allegedly received US$14,000 in wire transfers from bin al-Shibh, 
originating fromDüsseldorf and Hamburg, Germany, in early August. This money 
could have helped him pay for flight training about two weeks later at Pan-Am 
International Flight Academy in Eagan, Minnesota. On August 13, Moussaoui paid 
US$6,800 with US$100 bills to receive training in a 747-400simulator. The 
simulator that Pan-Am uses is operated by Northwest Aerospace Training 
Corporation (NATCO), a training facility affiliated with Northwest Airlines. "

On October 13, 2016 4:00:03 PM CDT, Dennis Boone  wrote:
>> No, it doesn't make an incredible amount of sense for some of this...
>
>Considering how many cabinets full of computer equipment were labelled
>"avionics rack", it's clear the auctioneers had no clue what most of
>this stuff was.
>
>De

-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: NWA auctions

[Dennis Boone]

 > No, it doesn't make an incredible amount of sense for some of this...

Considering how many cabinets full of computer equipment were labelled
"avionics rack", it's clear the auctioneers had no clue what most of
this stuff was.

De

Re: NWA auctions

[Josh Dersch]

On 10/13/16 1:37 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:


 > From: Jim Stephens

 > The two bay 11/45 went for twice the bid, since it was listed as 2 pcs
 > @ 1500 each

Yeah, I couldn't quite work that out - did it mean there were two mostly
identical ones, and they only had pictures of one, or did it mean 'two racks'?

Noel



It means (as far as I can tell) "two items" where the items in this case 
are the two racks.  You're buying the lot, but bidding on the cost of a 
single item. The TI 980B I got 
(https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464722) was 
sold as three items (the rack, the printer on the small rack, and some 
weird readout on a rolling pedstal).  No, it doesn't make an incredible 
amount of sense for some of this...


- Josh

Re: NWA auctions

[jim stephens]

On 10/13/2016 10:20 AM, Brent Hilpert wrote:

On 2016-Oct-13, at 12:35 AM, jim stephens wrote:

On 10/12/2016 11:04 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:

Any idea what this might be?  Looks interesting, but not a lot of information to go by 
apart from the "Display Systems Incorporated" badges...

https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/aspr/Portable-simulator-display-screens/32464587/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464587

- Josh

There is a horribly stylized some set of letters in front of the Display 
Systems Incorporated.  I don't know if I could figure it out even if the photo 
was close up and focused.  I hate designers. Typical crap they pull, make logos 
with letter you can't figure out if you tried.

The blurry blob to the left the tie first "D" is some set of letters or a word, 
can't tell.


The blurry blob logo is the letters "dsi" in lowercase, done in a kind of 
stencil font or font with a widely varying line width.


Went for a quarter.

I looked at the photography of the interior of several of the 747 
simulator heads, and there appear to be some with bare CRTs mounted on 
edge like the ones on this unit.  There are a couple of other "portable 
screens" as well.  I suspect when they were working on the simulations 
in the machine room they used these as temporary hookups to see what was 
appearing in the cockpits by hooking them up to the actual machines.


Also, I found another complete Evans and Sutherland machine here. Mr 
H*t got it as well, rather cheap.  I hope as others have said this 
is not a scrapper, since a large price was paid for the 11/45 that buyer 
seems to have purchased.


The two bay 11/45 went for twice the bid, since it was listed as 2 pcs @ 
1500 each == $3000 total.


https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/aspr/Assorted-avionics-cabinets-and-computer-equipment/32464904/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464904

thanks
Jim

RE: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Paul Birkel]

But then add the "Internet Fee" and Sales Tax (read the Terms and Conditions) 
for a ~26% mark-up from the closing price.  So ~$5670.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad H
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 1:07 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

$4500!  Is it likely a collector or someone that would be using these things 
somewhere?

I don't know my PDP stuff well.. the 11/45 is from around the early 70s right?

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Owen
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 9:40 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

Looks like one person got both the 11/45s for $4500 total. Too much for me, but 
that didn't seem like a bad deal.

Kyle

RE: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[tony duell]

> I don't know my PDP stuff well.. the 11/45 is from around the early 70s right?

1972 I think. It's a very nice machine, all TTL (over 1000 ICs in CPU, MMU
and floating point processor). I suppose the 11/70 is even more fun 
(with 22 bit addressing, etc) but the 11/45 is one of my all-time favourites.

-tony

Re: NWA auctions

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2016-Oct-13, at 12:35 AM, jim stephens wrote:
> On 10/12/2016 11:04 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
>> Any idea what this might be?  Looks interesting, but not a lot of 
>> information to go by apart from the "Display Systems Incorporated" badges...
>> 
>> https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/aspr/Portable-simulator-display-screens/32464587/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464587
>>  
>> 
>> - Josh 
> 
> There is a horribly stylized some set of letters in front of the Display 
> Systems Incorporated.  I don't know if I could figure it out even if the 
> photo was close up and focused.  I hate designers. Typical crap they pull, 
> make logos with letter you can't figure out if you tried.
> 
> The blurry blob to the left the tie first "D" is some set of letters or a 
> word, can't tell.


The blurry blob logo is the letters "dsi" in lowercase, done in a kind of 
stencil font or font with a widely varying line width.

RE: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Brad H]

$4500!  Is it likely a collector or someone that would be using these things 
somewhere?

I don't know my PDP stuff well.. the 11/45 is from around the early 70s right?

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Owen
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 9:40 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

Looks like one person got both the 11/45s for $4500 total. Too much for me, but 
that didn't seem like a bad deal.

Kyle

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Kyle Owen]

Looks like one person got both the 11/45s for $4500 total. Too much for me,
but that didn't seem like a bad deal.

Kyle

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Josh Dersch]

On 10/13/16 9:14 AM, Al Kossow wrote:



On 10/13/16 9:01 AM, Rick Bensene wrote:


These are neat machines, and I hope that they end up in the hands of
someone that can care for them rather than ending up scrap.


hope ht was one of us :-)






I ended up with the TI-980.  The 11/45's got out of range for me...

9 minutes left on the other Gould 32/77; hope someone here ends up with 
it...


- Josh

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[JP Hindin]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2016, Al Kossow wrote:

On 10/13/16 9:01 AM, Rick Bensene wrote:


These are neat machines, and I hope that they end up in the hands of
someone that can care for them rather than ending up scrap.



hope ht was one of us :-)


That's what I said when I quit bidding at $180.

I had one of those moments where I went "You know, I'd like to spend more, 
but I have a building full of computers, I can't really fit any more, and 
at $200+ it starts getting harder to justify it to the wife."


Which is usually a sign it's getting harder to justify to myself and my 
conscience is telling me it's time to fold.


But I sure hope it went to a collector.

(It's not often I find computer stuff within 2.5 hours of my home, too.)

 - JP

Re: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Al Kossow]

On 10/13/16 9:01 AM, Rick Bensene wrote:

> These are neat machines, and I hope that they end up in the hands of
> someone that can care for them rather than ending up scrap.
> 

hope ht was one of us :-)

RE: Gould 32/77 (was: NWA auctions)

[Rick Bensene]

> I'm curious what the Systems 32/77 is..
>Wasn't Gould SEL?  maybe an SEL system?


The 32/77-series was a 32-bit machine implemented in ECL, based on
earlier SEL designs, but is definitely Gould in design/manufacture. 

Some of the machines in the series had a very powerful (for the time)
floating point unit (known as the IPU) that operated in tandem with the
main CPU that vastly increased the number-crunching power available

The machines were mainly intended for real-time control applications (as
used in the flight sim applications in the auction)

The machine ran a real-time executive called MPX-32.

More information: http://www.encore-support.com/htmls/32_77.htm

Years ago, I had some experience with these machines.  They were quite
powerful for their time, and were also workhorses that just ran and ran.
Very robust design.

These are neat machines, and I hope that they end up in the hands of
someone that can care for them rather than ending up scrap.

--
Rick Bensene
The Old Calculator Museum
http://oldcalculatormuseum.com

RE: NWA auctions (GP-4, SEL 32)

[William Maddox]

This looks like a GP-4, though I am suspicious that parts of it have been 
modernized.   The GP-4 had a drum memory.

https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/aspr/Genal-Precision-Systems-2-door-avionics-cabinets/32464723/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464723

Someone should grab the SEL machines:

https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/aspr/Simulator-avionics-cabinet/32464645/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464645

There are a few 3C cards in the pallets of parts, and a few can be seen in the 
7th photo here:

https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/aspr/2-door-avionics-cabinets/32464736/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464736

Computer Control Company machines (e.g. DDP-124) were widely used in simulators 
in the mid/late 1960s, when many simulators for aircraft of that vintage were 
built.
The computer itself is nowhere in sight, however.  Probably, all that remains 
are specialized simulator interfaces, with the PC in the last photo doing the 
computing.  :(

--Bill

Re: NWA auctions

[Al Kossow]

On 10/13/16 12:11 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:

> What are those modern looking peripherals? Looks like storage, it might 
> be the real find here.
> 

They are Wilson Labs disk emulators.
Like I said, someone needs to get these.

Re: NWA auctions

[Ben Sinclair]

I just now realized that these auctions are out of a Delta Airlines
facility! Plus they are in MN, so within range of myself.

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Ben Sinclair  wrote:

> Check out this video of a flight simulator running on some PDP-11s:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-DpcvY4aBk
>
> Those rack mounted zip drives look like the same devices in the "Decpack
> avionics cabinet" auction.
>
> They're calling them "avionics," so I wonder if these are from a flight
> simulator?
>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Al Kossow  wrote:
>
>> https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288
>>
>> someone needs to grab those 11/45's!
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ben Sinclair
> b...@bensinclair.com
>



-- 
Ben Sinclair
b...@bensinclair.com

Re: NWA auctions

[Ben Sinclair]

Check out this video of a flight simulator running on some PDP-11s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-DpcvY4aBk

Those rack mounted zip drives look like the same devices in the "Decpack
avionics cabinet" auction.

They're calling them "avionics," so I wonder if these are from a flight
simulator?

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Al Kossow  wrote:

> https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288
>
> someone needs to grab those 11/45's!
>
>


-- 
Ben Sinclair
b...@bensinclair.com

Re: NWA auctions

[P Gebhardt]

>https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288
>
>someone needs to grab those 11/45's!


Again on the wrong side of the pond :(((


--- 

Pierre's collection of classic computers moved to: http://www.digitalheritage.de

Re: NWA auctions

[jim stephens]

On 10/12/2016 11:04 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
Any idea what this might be?  Looks interesting, but not a lot of 
information to go by apart from the "Display Systems Incorporated" 
badges...


https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/aspr/Portable-simulator-display-screens/32464587/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464587 



- Josh 


There is a horribly stylized some set of letters in front of the Display 
Systems Incorporated.  I don't know if I could figure it out even if the 
photo was close up and focused.  I hate designers. Typical crap they 
pull, make logos with letter you can't figure out if you tried.


The blurry blob to the left the tie first "D" is some set of letters or 
a word, can't tell.


thanks
Jim

Re: NWA auctions

[E. Groenenberg]

On Thu, October 13, 2016 06:13, Al Kossow wrote:
> https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288
>
> someone needs to grab those 11/45's!
>
>

There are a few DEC terminals & printers too, as well as a Documentum M200
punchcard reader.

Ed
--
Ik email, dus ik besta.
BTC : 1J5fajt8ptyZ2V1YURj3YJZhe5j3fJVSHN
LTC : LP2WuEmYPbpWUBqMFGJfdm7pdHEW7fKvDz

Re: NWA auctions

[COURYHOUSE]

they were pretty  famous  for running simulators   for   pilot training
Ed# _www.smacc.org_ (http://www.smacc.org)  
 
 
In a message dated 10/13/2016 12:19:45 A.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,  
dersc...@gmail.com writes:

The  Systems 32/77 is a Gould/SEL machine.  32-bit, ECL.  I don't know  
too much about it, but it's cool looking.  Wish I had the  space...

Re: NWA auctions

[jim stephens]

On 10/13/2016 12:11 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:


Also don't miss out on the VT330 (color graphics terminal!) and
Documation card reader.

I'm curious what the Systems 32/77 is..

Wasn't Gould SEL?  maybe an SEL system?

/P

Re: NWA auctions

[jim stephens]

On 10/12/2016 11:46 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 12:49:50AM -0500, Mark Linimon wrote:

Printronix

Printronixes, plural.

fwiw I also went through the "day 2" auction and although there are some
open-frame aluminum racks, most of the items of interest to this list are
in the "day 1" auction.

No, I'm not just saying this because there's something really cool I want
to bid on in the "day 2" auction :-)

mcl

There appears to be a Documation M200 card reader in one photo, though 
not called out.


thanks
Jim

Re: NWA auctions

[Josh Dersch]

On 10/13/16 12:11 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:


On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 09:13:19PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote:

https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288

someone needs to grab those 11/45's!


What are those modern looking peripherals? Looks like storage, it might
be the real find here.

Also don't miss out on the VT330 (color graphics terminal!) and
Documation card reader.

I'm curious what the Systems 32/77 is..

/P



The WBC 3000s in the 11/45 rack are RK05 emulators, from what I've been 
able to determine.


The Systems 32/77 is a Gould/SEL machine.  32-bit, ECL.  I don't know 
too much about it, but it's cool looking.  Wish I had the space...


- Josh

Re: NWA auctions

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 09:13:19PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote:
> https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288
> 
> someone needs to grab those 11/45's!
> 

What are those modern looking peripherals? Looks like storage, it might 
be the real find here.

Also don't miss out on the VT330 (color graphics terminal!) and 
Documation card reader.

I'm curious what the Systems 32/77 is..

/P

Re: NWA auctions

[Mark Linimon]

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 12:49:50AM -0500, Mark Linimon wrote:
> Printronix

Printronixes, plural.

fwiw I also went through the "day 2" auction and although there are some
open-frame aluminum racks, most of the items of interest to this list are
in the "day 1" auction.

No, I'm not just saying this because there's something really cool I want
to bid on in the "day 2" auction :-)

mcl

Re: NWA auctions

[COURYHOUSE]

I suspect the bidding will be  brisk  with the  peripherals... also  be  
shure to see  theframe  with the documstion card reader 
 
 
In a message dated 10/12/2016 9:38:03 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
dersc...@gmail.com writes:


On  10/12/16 9:13 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
>  https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288
>
>  someone needs to grab those 11/45's!
>
>

Thanks for the  tip!  Against my better judgement I put in a bid on the 
one without  the trim on the faceplate...

-  Josh

Re: NWA auctions

[Adrian Stoness]

someone should enquire about the raised floor

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 11:04 PM, Josh Dersch  wrote:

> On 10/12/16 10:08 PM, jim stephens wrote:
>
>
>>
>> On 10/12/2016 9:37 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 10/12/16 9:13 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
>>>
 https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288

 someone needs to grab those 11/45's!



>>> Thanks for the tip!  Against my better judgement I put in a bid on the
>>> one without the trim on the faceplate...
>>>
>>> - Josh
>>>
>>>
>>> Will you help get one of the 747 full motion boxes back to my house?
>> they have several of those, plus several DC-9 simulators. :-)
>>
>> Anyone interested in Gould or in Evans & Sutherland should look thru all
>> the listings.  There is one tall cabinet that appears full of E equipment.
>>
>> thanks
>> Jim
>>
>>
> Sure thing :)
>
> Any idea what this might be?  Looks interesting, but not a lot of
> information to go by apart from the "Display Systems Incorporated" badges...
>
> https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/aspr/Portable-simulator-di
> splay-screens/32464587/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464587
>
> - Josh
>

Re: NWA auctions

[Josh Dersch]

On 10/12/16 10:08 PM, jim stephens wrote:




On 10/12/2016 9:37 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:


On 10/12/16 9:13 PM, Al Kossow wrote:

https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288

someone needs to grab those 11/45's!




Thanks for the tip!  Against my better judgement I put in a bid on 
the one without the trim on the faceplate...


- Josh


Will you help get one of the 747 full motion boxes back to my house?  
they have several of those, plus several DC-9 simulators. :-)


Anyone interested in Gould or in Evans & Sutherland should look thru 
all the listings.  There is one tall cabinet that appears full of E 
equipment.


thanks
Jim



Sure thing :)

Any idea what this might be?  Looks interesting, but not a lot of 
information to go by apart from the "Display Systems Incorporated" badges...


https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/aspr/Portable-simulator-display-screens/32464587/LotDetail.asp?lid=32464587

- Josh

Re: NWA auctions

[jim stephens]

On 10/12/2016 9:37 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:


On 10/12/16 9:13 PM, Al Kossow wrote:

https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288

someone needs to grab those 11/45's!




Thanks for the tip!  Against my better judgement I put in a bid on the 
one without the trim on the faceplate...


- Josh


Will you help get one of the 747 full motion boxes back to my house?  
they have several of those, plus several DC-9 simulators. :-)


Anyone interested in Gould or in Evans & Sutherland should look thru all 
the listings.  There is one tall cabinet that appears full of E equipment.


thanks
Jim

Re: NWA auctions

[Jason T]

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Al Kossow  wrote:
> https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288

There are a lot of interesting items/lots in this auction.  I hope
whoever ends up with the main bits finds the extras as well.  Wonder
if the /45 controlled their flight simulator...

Re: NWA auctions

[Josh Dersch]

On 10/12/16 9:13 PM, Al Kossow wrote:

https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288

someone needs to grab those 11/45's!




Thanks for the tip!  Against my better judgement I put in a bid on the 
one without the trim on the faceplate...


- Josh

NWA auctions

[Al Kossow]

https://grafeauction.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=117590=288#288

someone needs to grab those 11/45's!