subject:"RE\: CFC\-based GPL web HTML editor"

Win IE5.5 required = unusable.

Adam Wayne Lehman
Web Systems Developer
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
Distance Education Division


-Original Message-
From: Mauricio Giraldo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 6:09 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: OT: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

Hi

Just wanted to let you know we have posted on SourceForge a WYSIWYG 
web-based HTML Editor. It is in Beta development right now. It is quite 
stable and I'm sure you will find it useful (we looked all over the web
for 
a good CF web editor and all are quite costly so we decided to port a
really 
good PHP-based editor).

It uses CFC so CFMX is required. It will work in shared server
environments. 
Win MSIE 5.5+ required.

If you want to contribute/submit bugs/whatever just post your messages
in 
the corresponding SourceForge forums for the project. The project
summary is 
in:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/spaw-cf

Regards
- mga

(Non-commercial only for now)

_
Try MSN Messenger 6.0 with integrated webcam functionality! 
http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_webcam


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in 
ColdFusion and related topics. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread Andre Turrettini

I'll definetly check it out. I had thought of doing the same.  Thanks MGA.
DRE

-Original Message-
From: Adam Wayne Lehman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 7:36 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

Win IE5.5 required = unusable.

Adam Wayne Lehman
Web Systems Developer
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
Distance Education Division

-Original Message-
From: Mauricio Giraldo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 6:09 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: OT: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

Hi

Just wanted to let you know we have posted on SourceForge a WYSIWYG 
web-based HTML Editor. It is in Beta development right now. It is quite 
stable and I'm sure you will find it useful (we looked all over the web
for 
a good CF web editor and all are quite costly so we decided to port a
really 
good PHP-based editor).

It uses CFC so CFMX is required. It will work in shared server
environments. 
Win MSIE 5.5+ required.

If you want to contribute/submit bugs/whatever just post your messages
in 
the corresponding SourceForge forums for the project. The project
summary is 
in:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/spaw-cf

Regards
- mga

(Non-commercial only for now)

_
Try MSN Messenger 6.0 with integrated webcam functionality! 
http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_webcam

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread Jim Davis

 -Original Message-
 From: Adam Wayne Lehman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:36 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 Win IE5.5 required = unusable.

...unless you have IE 5.5+  ;^)

But I agree in theory - however this would make lots of sense for a
controlled environment (Intranet or Administration system) that featured
IE as a standard.

However it IS an open-source project: those interested may undertake
their own project to test it on other platforms and make the needed
adjustments.

(As an aside - a good friend of mine just got accepted at John Hopkins
in a web position, not sure what department.  She starts in a week or
so, Karin Horlbeck?  Know her?)

Jim Davis

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in 
ColdFusion and related topics. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

LOL. She's my new office mate!

Adam Wayne Lehman
Web Systems Developer
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
Distance Education Division


-Original Message-
From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 10:40 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 -Original Message-
 From: Adam Wayne Lehman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:36 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
 
 Win IE5.5 required = unusable.

...unless you have IE 5.5+  ;^)

But I agree in theory - however this would make lots of sense for a
controlled environment (Intranet or Administration system) that featured
IE as a standard.

However it IS an open-source project: those interested may undertake
their own project to test it on other platforms and make the needed
adjustments.

(As an aside - a good friend of mine just got accepted at John Hopkins
in a web position, not sure what department.  She starts in a week or
so, Karin Horlbeck?  Know her?)

Jim Davis



~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Get the mailserver that powers this list at 
http://www.coolfusion.com

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

Win IE5.5 required = unusable.

... by about 5% users...

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Get the mailserver that powers this list at 
http://www.coolfusion.com

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you
can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority.

Adam Wayne Lehman
Web Systems Developer
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
Distance Education Division


-Original Message-
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:08 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

Win IE5.5 required = unusable.

... by about 5% users...


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Get the mailserver that powers this list at 
http://www.coolfusion.com

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 Win IE5.5 required = unusable.

 ... by about 5% users...

That kind of perspective is how we got stuck with Microsoft in the 
first place!

Matt Liotta
President  CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.MontaraSoftware.com
(888) 408-0900 x901


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for 
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
http://www.cfhosting.com

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread Clint Tredway

Matt Liotta wrote:

Win IE5.5 required = unusable.


... by about 5% users...



That kind of perspective is how we got stuck with Microsoft in the 
first place!

Matt Liotta
President  CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.MontaraSoftware.com
(888) 408-0900 x901



~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Get the mailserver that powers this list at 
http://www.coolfusion.com

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread Thane Sherrington

At 11:37 AM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote:
Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you
can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority.

That depends.  If 5% of users are non-IE users, then I can't really spend 
more than 5% of my development time on making things work for them, can 
I?  That's the downside to the non-IE compatible browsers.  Remember when 
word processors *had* to be WordStar file compatible?  It's the same thing 
with browsers.  I'm all for competition, but browser companies should take 
note of OpenOffice - it can read MS Word formats well, and that's what's 
making it successful.


T

Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer?  Move 
them to the Net!
www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your 
favourites in one place and
access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet. 

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in 
ColdFusion and related topics. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread Thomas Chiverton

On Tuesday 16 Sep 2003 16:55 pm, Benjamin S. Rogers wrote:
 (or, even better, use Virtual PC). Instead, we would have to invest a
 substantial amount of money into a machine we have no intention of using
 for anything else.

There are Mac emulators.
There is also a web site (which I can't recall the name of atm) that will take 
a screenshot of your app using a variety of O/S and browsers, and email them 
all back to you.

-- 
Tom Chiverton (sorry 'bout sig.)
Advanced ColdFusion Programmer

Tel: +44(0)1749 834997
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
BlueFinger Limited
Underwood Business Park
Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF
Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900
Fax: +44 (0)1749 834901
web: www.bluefinger.com
Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple
Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG.
*** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee
only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us
immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this
communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from
this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of
the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the
completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over
public networks.***

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for 
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
http://www.cfhosting.com

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 Win IE5.5 required = unusable.
 
 ... by about 5% users...

Even less, last time I looked. And then divide that by all of the
various browsers used on the Mac (Safari, several different Gecko based
browsers, Internet Explorer, Opera, etc.). To further complicate things,
we can't just install a Mac OS onto an old x86 box for testing purposes
(or, even better, use Virtual PC). Instead, we would have to invest a
substantial amount of money into a machine we have no intention of using
for anything else.

In the end, we try to design our sites to be as standards compliant as
possible, try to make them degrade as gracefully as possible in older
browsers (Netscape 4, Internet Explorer 4, etc.), and hope for the best
everywhere else. Of course, the first two are often mutually exclusive.
In which case, standards be damned, we're going to make our customers'
sites look as good as possible in as many browsers as we reasonably can.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread Jim Campbell

You can get an old iMac on Ebay for less than $200:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2Fkrd=1from=R8MfcISAPICommand=GetResultht=1SortProperty=MetaEndSortquery=iMac

You don't need anything more if you're just going to be testing web
pages. That, and you can get a moderately more expensive one with OS X
if you want to check modern performance (have to be OS X.2 for Safari).

Apple doesn't release an OS for x86 so they don't have to deal with a
bazillion components and associated drivers. It's like complaining you
can't install IRIX on your old Compaq to see how your site looks in
Netscape on it.

- Jim

Benjamin S. Rogers wrote:

Win IE5.5 required = unusable.

... by about 5% users...

Even less, last time I looked. And then divide that by all of the
various browsers used on the Mac (Safari, several different Gecko based
browsers, Internet Explorer, Opera, etc.). To further complicate things,
we can't just install a Mac OS onto an old x86 box for testing purposes
(or, even better, use Virtual PC). Instead, we would have to invest a
substantial amount of money into a machine we have no intention of using
for anything else.

In the end, we try to design our sites to be as standards compliant as
possible, try to make them degrade as gracefully as possible in older
browsers (Netscape 4, Internet Explorer 4, etc.), and hope for the best
everywhere else. Of course, the first two are often mutually exclusive.
In which case, standards be damned, we're going to make our customers'
sites look as good as possible in as many browsers as we reasonably can.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Get the mailserver that powers this list at
http://www.coolfusion.com

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

Look, if only 100 people used the internet, then disregarding 5% would
be acceptable. 2004 projections for people online worldwide is 710-945
million. 
So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time? There
are plenty of Javascript and Flash based WYSIWYGs.

Adam Wayne Lehman
Web Systems Developer
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
Distance Education Division


-Original Message-
From: Thane Sherrington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:58 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

At 11:37 AM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote:
Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you
can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority.

That depends.  If 5% of users are non-IE users, then I can't really
spend 
more than 5% of my development time on making things work for them, can 
I?  That's the downside to the non-IE compatible browsers.  Remember
when 
word processors *had* to be WordStar file compatible?  It's the same
thing 
with browsers.  I'm all for competition, but browser companies should
take 
note of OpenOffice - it can read MS Word formats well, and that's what's

making it successful.


T

Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer?  Move 
them to the Net!
www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your 
favourites in one place and
access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet. 


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

It shouldn't take any of your development time to see that making use 
of something that only works with a specific version of IE on Windows 
isn't going to work for everyone. Just spend your time working on stuff 
that is known to work for everyone.

-Matt

On Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 11:57 AM, Thane Sherrington wrote:

 At 11:37 AM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote:
 Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you
 can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority.

 That depends.  If 5% of users are non-IE users, then I can't really 
 spend
 more than 5% of my development time on making things work for them, can
 I?  That's the downside to the non-IE compatible browsers.  Remember 
 when
 word processors *had* to be WordStar file compatible?  It's the same 
 thing
 with browsers.  I'm all for competition, but browser companies should 
 take
 note of OpenOffice - it can read MS Word formats well, and that's 
 what's
 making it successful.


 T

 Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer?  Move
 them to the Net!
 www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your
 favourites in one place and
 access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet.

 
~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in 
ColdFusion and related topics. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread Thane Sherrington

At 12:16 PM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote:
Look, if only 100 people used the internet, then disregarding 5% would
be acceptable. 2004 projections for people online worldwide is 710-945
million.
So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time? There
are plenty of Javascript and Flash based WYSIWYGs.

If I have 20 hours to complete a project, and 5% of my audience needs 
special work, then I have 1 hour to make sure it works on their 
systems.  I'm not suggesting that I would purposely break the application 
on their systems, I'm saying that they have to respect the percentages.

Besides, just because there are 710 million users, I really doubt they all 
come to my website.  Maybe I only cater to 1000 of them.  But that still 
isn't the issue - I have to make the system work for the majority of my 
users.  It's like business.  I'm sure that there are people who would like 
to buy a suit at 1AM.  But since there are so few people like that, there 
are very few suit stores open then (at least where I live.)

T

Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer?  Move 
them to the Net!
www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your 
favourites in one place and
access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet. 

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 There are Mac emulators.
 There is also a web site (which I can't recall the
 name of atm) that will take a screenshot of your
 app using a variety of O/S and browsers, and email
 them all back to you.

Yes, NetMechanic does this. However, these are costs we'd have to pass
off to the customer (both the third party fees and our time). In
reality, most customers only care that the site looks good on their
computer. We try to ensure that the site looks good on the vast majority
of the computers on the Internet. We try and design the site so as not
to preclude other browser/OS combinations. However, most customers do
not care to pay us to test on the others.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Get the mailserver that powers this list at 
http://www.coolfusion.com

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 You can get an old iMac on Ebay for less than $200:

Again, which combinations of OS and browsers will that iMac support? As
you said, if we spend more, we can get an OS X box. However, we would
have to buy both to get the majority of the combinations. Or, perhaps we
could buy an OS X box, Virtual PC for the Mac and all the various OS
licenses. That's still much more than $200, and I'd have to shove yet
another box under my desk or make room for it on one of the racks -- but
of course they don't rack mount.

And, to be honest, we simply don't have anyone on staff familiar with
either OS X or legacy Mac OSes. I wouldn't even know how to put the
thing on the network. I'm sure I could figure it out, but designing Web
sites which are compatible for the Mac is simply not a priority. It's
not something our customers are willing to pay us for. So, we do what we
do and hope for the best.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in 
ColdFusion and related topics. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time?
There
 are plenty of Javascript and Flash based WYSIWYGs.

Even if you're numbers had some basis in reality, that's not what I'm
saying. I'm saying that our customers are not willing to pay us to
develop specifically for Macintosh browsers. It's a simple business
decision. Our average proposal is about 15 pages long, and it explains
browser support in depth about half way through. So far, no one has
opted to pay us more to ensure compatibility on the Mac.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in 
ColdFusion and related topics. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 It shouldn't take any of your development time to see that making use 
 of something that only works with a specific version of IE on Windows 
 isn't going to work for everyone. Just spend your time working on
stuff 
 that is known to work for everyone.

I don't think anyone is saying that they would purposefully break a site
or use code that they new didn't work in one of various browser on the
Mac. Of course, we try to avoid that where ever possible. However, every
browser/OS combination has its own set of bugs and idiosyncrasies.

For instance, it's my understanding that Internet Explorer on the Mac
renders text at 96 dpi instead of the system 72 dpi. So, though I might
use nothing but the paragraph tag, I can't possibly foresee what the
site will look like.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for 
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
http://www.cfhosting.com

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

Wow. Call me old fashion by my proposals say:

Vendor will ensure that the site always appears as a good
representation of the client's company and brand in all major browsers.

*major modern browsers considered include: Internet Explorer 5+ for Mac
and PC, Netscape 4.5+ for Mac and PC, Mozilla for Mac  PC, Safari for
Mac, and Opera 5+ for Mac and PC

I don't charge extra because I consider it part of my job.

Adam Wayne Lehman
Web Systems Developer
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
Distance Education Division


-Original Message-
From: Benjamin S. Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:12 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time?
There
 are plenty of Javascript and Flash based WYSIWYGs.

Even if you're numbers had some basis in reality, that's not what I'm
saying. I'm saying that our customers are not willing to pay us to
develop specifically for Macintosh browsers. It's a simple business
decision. Our average proposal is about 15 pages long, and it explains
browser support in depth about half way through. So far, no one has
opted to pay us more to ensure compatibility on the Mac.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in 
ColdFusion and related topics. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 I don't think anyone is saying that they would purposefully break a 
 site
 or use code that they new didn't work in one of various browser on the
 Mac. Of course, we try to avoid that where ever possible. However, 
 every
 browser/OS combination has its own set of bugs and idiosyncrasies.

Well this thread is about using a HTML editor that only works with IE 
5.5 on Windows. Knowing that it seems like anyone making use of it is 
purposefully breaking a site.

Matt Liotta
President  CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.MontaraSoftware.com
(888) 408-0900 x901


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

but people *do* use Macs

Yes, 5% ;-)

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Get the mailserver that powers this list at 
http://www.coolfusion.com

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time?

This is not the problem.
WYSIWYG HTML editing is fairly easy thanks to many tools provided by both IE and 
Windows.
Developing the same thing without them would be at least 10 times more work, and 
re-inventing the wheel.

When developers of Linux, Macs and so on will make equivalent tools available, I'll be 
glad to use them.
For the time being it's simply too time consuming.

Same thing with Netscape 6+ : when they'll make a decent documentation about their 
Javascript
implementation, I'll spend some time on cross browser functionalities. For the time 
being,
I'm tired of having to guess how it works.

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Get the mailserver that powers this list at 
http://www.coolfusion.com

Re: Mac usage [Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor]

 the last two numbers are the interesting ones IMHO -- used to be 
 graphic
 designers used Mac, developers used PC (maybe with Linux on it, but 
 probably
 Windows). Most of the Java developers I know are moving to Mac. I'd 
 head
 there myself if I didn't spend 50-60% in MS-SQL developer world with 
 local
 database servers (and I'm not real interested in running VirtualPC for 
 that)

The reason is simple; Mac OS X currently provides the best overall 
platform for Java developers. In fact, it was recently reported by the 
Java mothership, Sun, that most of their employees use Macs at home.

Matt Liotta
President  CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.MontaraSoftware.com
(888) 408-0900 x901


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in 
ColdFusion and related topics. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 3) it is an open-source GPL editor. If anyone wants to contribute and 
 make a crossbrowser version we are completely open to ideas.

Except of course that your editor depends on functionality only found 
in IE. Writing an editor that was completed cross-platform would 
require throwing all everything you have done so far and starting again.

Matt Liotta
President  CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.MontaraSoftware.com
(888) 408-0900 x901


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread John Paul Ashenfelter

A more worrisome statistic is how much of the web is non-English speaking
(specifically the huge projections for China). Should you also dedicate,
say, 20% of your project time to translating into Chinese? Or maybe 10% for
Spanish? etc. etc.

It's all about knowing your audience. If you're ok that the 5% of your
audience that's non-English speaking (to use a conservative number) can't
access your site, why do you need to worry about 5% that uses Macs and can't
access your site? 5% is 5%. What about the population of the disabled who
use alternative browsers? And if you're developing in Canada, can you ignore
the French translation of your site and rule out Quebec (and probably
violate some provincial laws in the process)? Or build a MSIE/Win app and
deploy it for all the Mac users at the local design firm?

And the folks *without* web access? What about them :)

So take a look at the current web logs (you do look at your web logs,
right?) and see what browsers, versions, platforms, and charactersets are
being used. That might help guide the development efforts -- not simply
generalizations like 5% of the population is Mac.

As an aside, the open source log analyzer awstats generates some really
straightforward data from apache and iis logs as far as browsers go (Sure,
you could also just import the logs in Excel and run the analysis yourself,
but this is an easy, daily update). Little quirky to install, but really
useful IMHO.

Regards,

John Paul Ashenfelter
CTO/Transitionpoint
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Adam Wayne Lehman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 12:16 PM
Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor


 Look, if only 100 people used the internet, then disregarding 5% would
 be acceptable. 2004 projections for people online worldwide is 710-945
 million.
 So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time? There
 are plenty of Javascript and Flash based WYSIWYGs.

 Adam Wayne Lehman
 Web Systems Developer
 Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
 Distance Education Division


 -Original Message-
 From: Thane Sherrington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:58 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 At 11:37 AM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote:
 Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you
 can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority.

 That depends.  If 5% of users are non-IE users, then I can't really
 spend
 more than 5% of my development time on making things work for them, can
 I?  That's the downside to the non-IE compatible browsers.  Remember
 when
 word processors *had* to be WordStar file compatible?  It's the same
 thing
 with browsers.  I'm all for competition, but browser companies should
 take
 note of OpenOffice - it can read MS Word formats well, and that's what's

 making it successful.


 T

 Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer?  Move
 them to the Net!
 www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your
 favourites in one place and
 access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet.


 
~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

Mac usage [Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor]

2003-09-16 Thread John Paul Ashenfelter

Agreed. It all depends on your target market. A few examples of Mac usage
(culled from netcraft, web logs, and personal experience etc) in...

the total population of the web 10%
education ~40% at University of Virginia last I had stats
Darden Business school @ University of Virginia 0% (ok, I have one developer
friend who brings in his powerbook...)
the last graphic design firm I worked with 100%
my company, currently 0%
the OReilly Open Source Convention ~50%
speakers at the last All-Stuff, No-Fluff java weekend I attended ~ 50%

the last two numbers are the interesting ones IMHO -- used to be graphic
designers used Mac, developers used PC (maybe with Linux on it, but probably
Windows). Most of the Java developers I know are moving to Mac. I'd head
there myself if I didn't spend 50-60% in MS-SQL developer world with local
database servers (and I'm not real interested in running VirtualPC for that)

More interesting to me is of the Macintosh OS X users, how many are using
Safari vs using MSIE or Mozilla.

Regards,

John Paul Ashenfelter
CTO/Transitionpoint
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor


  Win IE5.5 required = unusable.
 
  ... by about 5% users...
 
 That kind of perspective is how we got stuck with Microsoft in the
 first place!

 Matt Liotta
 President  CEO
 Montara Software, Inc.
 http://www.MontaraSoftware.com
 (888) 408-0900 x901


 
~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

Re: Mac usage [Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor]

2003-09-16 Thread John Paul Ashenfelter

No argument. But the OSCON number was intersting because the Java population
there was more like 10-15%. The bulk were Perl, PHP, and Ruby.

But in all fairness, even the folks with Dell, HP, and Compaq laptops were
usually running some Linux distro :) You could here the chiming of Windows
starting up, but that was more the reporters, managers, and other folks -- 
developers were *way* Mac-centric.

This is a far cry from the OS8-9 days where Java 1.1.7 (plus swing and
collections API as downloads) was the version you got from Apple man was
that a PIA.

Regards,

John Paul Ashenfelter
CTO/Transitionpoint
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Mac usage [Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor]


  the last two numbers are the interesting ones IMHO -- used to be
  graphic
  designers used Mac, developers used PC (maybe with Linux on it, but
  probably
  Windows). Most of the Java developers I know are moving to Mac. I'd
  head
  there myself if I didn't spend 50-60% in MS-SQL developer world with
  local
  database servers (and I'm not real interested in running VirtualPC for
  that)
 
 The reason is simple; Mac OS X currently provides the best overall
 platform for Java developers. In fact, it was recently reported by the
 Java mothership, Sun, that most of their employees use Macs at home.

 Matt Liotta
 President  CEO
 Montara Software, Inc.
 http://www.MontaraSoftware.com
 (888) 408-0900 x901


 
~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for 
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
http://www.cfhosting.com

Re: Mac usage [Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor]

2003-09-16 Thread Pete Freitag

Matt Liotta wrote:

The reason is simple; Mac OS X currently provides the best overall 
platform for Java developers. In fact, it was recently reported by the 
Java mothership, Sun, that most of their employees use Macs at home.

  

Actually I have been dealing with a major Java bug for almost a year now 
on OS X. The LiveConnect API is not implemented properly in any web 
browsers on OS X. This API allows a Java applet to communicate with 
JavaScript, or the calling document's DOM. This is a major hurdle in 
getting WYSIWYG editors to work on Mac's, because you can't seamlessly 
interact with a web form. I've submitted several bug reports to Apple 
with no avail.

Flash also relies on LiveConnect, in it's fscommand function.

Other than this problem, OSX is a pretty kickin OS.

_
Pete Freitag
http://www.cfdev.com/
Author CFMX Developers Cookbook
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0672324628/netgig-20



~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in 
ColdFusion and related topics. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 I don't charge extra because I consider it part of my job.

Well, all other things being equal, my base price is going to be lower
than yours. I assure you, my customers are more concerned about price
than whether or not the site functions properly in one of several
different browsers on one of a couple different Operating Systems on the
Mac. I consider addressing my customers' concerns my entire job.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Get the mailserver that powers this list at 
http://www.coolfusion.com

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 The editor is built using CFCs and an OO perspective. This way we can 
 replace pieces of code without having to redo everything. Javascript 
 is well separated from CF. I guess a cross-browser version could be 
 done why not? Have you given it a look?

I have given it a look and I believe that using a Java front-end 
through either an Applet or Java Web Start is the only way to create a 
good cross-platform HTML editor. Therefore, nothing in your project is 
useful in that regard.

Matt Liotta
President  CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.MontaraSoftware.com
(888) 408-0900 x901


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Get the mailserver that powers this list at 
http://www.coolfusion.com

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 I have given it a look and I believe that using a Java front-end 
 through either an Applet or Java Web Start is the only way to create a

 good cross-platform HTML editor. Therefore, nothing in your project is

 useful in that regard.

I would think a better approach would be to use the tools native to each
browser and provide a standard ColdFusion interface:

 
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/browser/msht
ml/mshtml_editing_node_entry.asp

  http://www.mozilla.org/catalog/libraries/editor/

That way, instead of rolling your own very limited, non-native Java
editor, you could provide a feature rich, seamless experience for each
browser.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for 
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
http://www.cfhosting.com

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 That way, instead of rolling your own very limited, non-native Java
 editor, you could provide a feature rich, seamless experience for each
 browser.

First, if you wrap your editor around native functionality then the 
capabilities and behavior of the editor will vary by platform, which is 
certainly no good. Second, why would a Java solution be limited in any 
way as compared to a native solution?

Matt Liotta
President  CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.MontaraSoftware.com
(888) 408-0900 x901


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for 
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
http://www.cfhosting.com

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread Mike Kear

I've implemented that editor on an experimental area of a site I'm working
on and it's a beaut!  It's simple to use, no heaps and heaps of
configuration files to muck about with.  It's great for what I think would
be the majority of applications for this kind of tag.

I like the fact that the formatting options are limited, so non-technical
users can't experiment with html tags and wreck the look and feel of my
site.  I can restrict the html they can use.  And it's cfc-friendly.



I would like to see the old browsers handled by replacing the tag with a
standard textarea tag rather than bump them off to an oldbrowser.htm file.
Is this easy to do?



Cheers,
Michael Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP Webworks.




-Original Message-
From: Thane Sherrington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2003 1:58 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

At 11:37 AM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote:
Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you
can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority.

That depends.  If 5% of users are non-IE users, then I can't really spend 
more than 5% of my development time on making things work for them, can 
I?  That's the downside to the non-IE compatible browsers.  Remember when 
word processors *had* to be WordStar file compatible?  It's the same thing 
with browsers.  I'm all for competition, but browser companies should take 
note of OpenOffice - it can read MS Word formats well, and that's what's 
making it successful.


T




~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for 
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
http://www.cfhosting.com

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread Kevin Graeme

Hey Mauricio,

I just wanted to say that despite all the commotion your editor caused that
I think it's great that you took an open source option and converted it to
CF. It makes me want to take another look through SourceForge to see if
there's other nifty things I haven't been paying attention to that might be
worth converting.

-Kevin

- Original Message - 
From: Mauricio Giraldo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:09 PM
Subject: OT: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor


 Hi

 Just wanted to let you know we have posted on SourceForge a WYSIWYG
 web-based HTML Editor. It is in Beta development right now. It is quite
 stable and I'm sure you will find it useful (we looked all over the web
for
 a good CF web editor and all are quite costly so we decided to port a
really
 good PHP-based editor).

 It uses CFC so CFMX is required. It will work in shared server
environments.
 Win MSIE 5.5+ required.

 If you want to contribute/submit bugs/whatever just post your messages in
 the corresponding SourceForge forums for the project. The project summary
is
 in:

 http://sourceforge.net/projects/spaw-cf

 Regards
 - mga

 (Non-commercial only for now)

 _
 Try MSN Messenger 6.0 with integrated webcam functionality!
 http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_webcam

 
~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for 
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
http://www.cfhosting.com

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 According to this:
 http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/

 Java is installed in around 91% of users' computers. I prefer a 95% IE 
 5.5+ no-plug-in-needed penetration than a 91% Java penetration.

What is interesting about those statistics is that they don't tell you 
the conclusion you are making. For example, how could 95% of people 
being using IE 5.5+ if 5% of people are using Macs. That would mean 
that everyone who uses Windows using IE 5.5+, which is certainly not 
true. Further, the Java number is also skewed as most people who are 
using modern browsers such as IE 5.5 certainly do have Java. And of 
course there is the fact that all Mac OS X users have Java installed.

It is entirely possible that the percentage of people with Java 
installed is actually higher than the number of people who have IE 5.5+.

Matt Liotta
President  CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.MontaraSoftware.com
(888) 408-0900 x901


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for 
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
http://www.cfhosting.com

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

I would think a better approach would be to use the tools native to each browser

The problem is that there is NO editing tools in other browsers :-(

That way, instead of rolling your own very limited, non-native Java editor,

I don't see the advantage of going Java in order to get cross browser
There may be about 5% of users that don't use IE, but there is definitely a much
greater percentage of IE 6 users not having Java installed and who don't want to here 
about it.

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for 
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
http://www.cfhosting.com

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

Java is installed in around 91% of users' computers.

Even this looks pretty optimistic to me.
There are also those who do have Java installed, but it is not activated, and this 
includes
all those who never found it in their IE options and didn't know it was called 
Virtual Machine ;-))

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in 
ColdFusion and related topics. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread Andre Turrettini

No one is disregarding.  The opposite.  Its providing the best functionality
you can within reason for each browser.

Example, Yahoo uses it for their email program.  The wysiwig doesnt show up
on a mac or netscape browser but plenty of people use yahoo with macs and
with netscape.

DRE


-Original Message-
From: Adam Wayne Lehman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 10:16 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor


Look, if only 100 people used the internet, then disregarding 5% would
be acceptable. 2004 projections for people online worldwide is 710-945
million. 
So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time? There
are plenty of Javascript and Flash based WYSIWYGs.

Adam Wayne Lehman
Web Systems Developer
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
Distance Education Division


-Original Message-
From: Thane Sherrington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:58 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

At 11:37 AM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote:
Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you
can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority.

That depends.  If 5% of users are non-IE users, then I can't really
spend 
more than 5% of my development time on making things work for them, can 
I?  That's the downside to the non-IE compatible browsers.  Remember
when 
word processors *had* to be WordStar file compatible?  It's the same
thing 
with browsers.  I'm all for competition, but browser companies should
take 
note of OpenOffice - it can read MS Word formats well, and that's what's

making it successful.


T

Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer?  Move 
them to the Net!
www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your 
favourites in one place and
access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet. 



~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

That would mean that everyone who uses Windows using IE 5.5+,

No, because you also have all those using IE on Macs ;-)
When one say 95% of IE users, this include about all Mac users.
The 5% remaining are not Mac users, but Opera, Mozilla, etc.

most people who are using modern browsers such as IE 5.5
  certainly do have Java.

IE 5.5 yes, but about 60% of users are running version 6 which does not include the
Virtual Machine and many of those people won't even try to install it.

It is entirely possible that the percentage of people with Java
installed is actually higher than the number of people who have IE 5.5+.

IMHO it is much probable it is far less than that.



~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in 
ColdFusion and related topics. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread Mike Kear

Not for me.  I see there is a 'redirect=oldbrowser.htm' parameter in the
tag, but if I remove it, the page throws an error in netscape.  The notes
say if the browser isn't IE5.5+ then the user is redirected somewhere else.
I think they should still get the form, but with a textarea instead of the
tag. 

No?


Have I done that wrong?


Ummm ...  we *ARE* talking about tmt_xhtmleditor.cfm aren't we?  If not,
what's the name of YOUR tag, Mauricio and where can it be got?



Cheers,
Michael Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP Webworks.




-Original Message-
From: Mauricio Giraldo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2003 7:38 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re:CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

I would like to see the old browsers handled by replacing the tag with a
standard textarea tag rather than bump them off to an oldbrowser.htm
file.
Is this easy to do?

Absolutely. It is already implemented. Non-IE 5.5+ browsers will get a plain
old TEXTAREA tag

:)

- mga


~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

2003-09-16 Thread Sean A Corfield

I was going to stay out of this but...

On Tuesday, Sep 16, 2003, at 15:05 US/Pacific, Claude Schneegans wrote:
 That would mean that everyone who uses Windows using IE 5.5+,
 No, because you also have all those using IE on Macs ;-)

Actually, no. Mac IE stopped at 5.2.3 - it did not reach 5.5. And many, 
many Mac users have long since abandoned IE for a more feature-rich 
browser such as Safari, Mozilla, Opera...

Visitors to my blog (86% Win, 13% Mac, 1% Linux):
64% IE 6.x
 6% IE 5.x __ 70% IE 5.x+
 1% Konqueror 3.x
29% Netscape 5.x

Vistors to my site in general (85% Win, 3% Mac, 12% Other/Linux):
72% IE 6.x
 8% IE 5.x __ 80% IE 5.x+
 1% Konqueror 3.x
 1% Konqueror 2.x
 1% Netscape 6.x
12% Netscape 5.x
 1% Netscape 4.x
 4% Netscape 3.x

As you can see, not even all Windows users are running IE - only about 
15% of my audience is non-Windows, yet 20-30% of my audience is non-IE.

Note: certain 'fringe' browsers are detected as Netscape / Konqueror 
when they aren't.

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive.
-- Margaret Atwood

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in 
ColdFusion and related topics. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 First, if you wrap your editor around native functionality then the 
 capabilities and behavior of the editor will vary by platform, which
is 
 certainly no good.

Why? It seems like most of the editors already support a very common set
of features. Most users are not going to be impressed that a Java editor
functions the same way on all platforms. I'm sure a Mac user would
prefer the editor to function like a native application/widget. I know
part of the reason I dislike Macromedia applications is that they do not
feel or function like Windows applications. I pretty sure I'm note alone
on this.

 Second, why would a Java solution be limited in any 
 way as compared to a native solution?

Because, instead of writing a relatively simple interface for each
different platform, you'd have to write, test, debug, etc. all the
functionality yourself. Unless I'm completely off base, I think it would
take much more time to write a feature rich, cross platform HTML editor.
I'd much rather just leverage the work done by other individuals. I
don't have any desire to reinvent the wheel.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

 Actually, no. Mac IE stopped at 5.2.3 - it did not reach 5.5.

The version numbers are not comparable cross-platform. Just as an
example, Internet Explorer 6 for the PC uses the Mac Internet Explorer
rendering engine. This, of course, does not mean that Mac Internet
Explorer 5.x is equivalent to the PC Internet Explorer version 6.x
(which did come out later). However, they are a much closer pedigree
than the 5.x versions as far as HTML rendering goes.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for 
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
http://www.cfhosting.com

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

part of the reason I dislike Macromedia applications is that they do not
feel or function like Windows applications. I pretty sure I'm note alone
on this.

You sure are not. This is also one of the reason I gave up with Netscape when they
spent (lost) one year just to rewrite the interface so it doesn't look like Windows
I'm sorry, but it is MY Windows, I paid fot it and I don't like programs which fill my 
disk with
all it takes to have a different interface, even if they are free. What a loss of time!



~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4

Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor