Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
ColdFusion has more than a decade of market exposure. Re-branding any product is very costly proposition. I am not suggesting that Abode stop spending money to market ColdFusion, merely that re-branding a well known product is waste of money and time, and would likely lose more customers than it would gain. Totally pointless. On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey mary...@cfwebstore.com wrote: As someone that is in software development and sales myself I can say that you won't HAVE any money for development UNLESS you have sales. So you absolutely need to be putting resources into both. Sure, as a developer in CF I'd prefer that the bulk of resources go to development but that's just not reasonable to expect that all of it would. If in a bad economy that means cutting back some on development, that's understandable. If Adobe feels rebranding will help increase exposure and/or interest in the product, then it certainly should be looked at. I'm dubious that it would make much difference and can't imagine after all these years having to refer to it as anything but ColdFusion but if it might help uptake among certain markets, I can live with that. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334860 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Apologies. My phrasing here is misleading. 100% my fault. I knew about CF being free for education, but dreamweaver, flash, photoshop, illustrator, are not. This was the complaint I was hearing from my educational colleagues. Again, I apologize for my miscommunication. The class on CF I was teaching there (this would have been the 5th year I taught it), is being replaced with a class on PHP. Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ Open BlueDragon Steering Committee Railo Community Distributions On 06/24/2010 06:31 PM, James Holmes wrote: Of course Adobe does in fact give away ColdFusion free to education for exactly this reason: https://freeriatools.adobe.com/ https://freeriatools.adobe.com/ -- WSS4CF - WS-Security framework for CF http://wss4cf.riaforge.org/ On 25 June 2010 08:54, Jordan Michaelsjor...@viviotech.net wrote: They *WANT* to teach Adobe technologies, CF could be included with that, but it's just too expensive for them to do so. I don't think Adobe should give software away, even to schools (we all gotta pay the bills, right?) but easing up a little would yield excellent long-term results (and customers!) IMHO. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334841 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Windows nn - Windows nn = still sucks. Although I hear Windows 7 sucks less :) That's not really rebranding though is it? The product is still called Windows. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334838 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
I agree not only do they need to try and get classes into the colleges, they also need to teach the capabilities to the web staff of the colleges. I took a class on web administration (required couldn't opt out even though I've been doing this a long time), and I used CF for my final project. When the instructor (also the director of the college web services) saw my icons for pdf files she asked me why I took the time to build pdfs. I told her they were dynamic, built on the fly. She thought I had pirated software to do it, until I showed her that it was built into ColdFusion. At the time (this was a few years ago) she was looking into options for generating pdfs on the fly and the costs for the software were more than buying ColdFusion. She had no idea. I really think that the push for getting this into colleges should go more to the community colleges (2 year) first. There has been a major trend at least in Michigan for people to go to community colleges first, then move on to 4 year institutions. If we suddenly had a lot more people trained in the technologies, business might consider it more viable. Steve -Original Message- From: Wil Genovese [mailto:jugg...@trunkful.com] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:53 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? I knew Adobe had free educational licenses now, my point was more that I think Adobe really needs to market to the college computer science programs and even send people in to teach them how to setup and configure ColdFusion for high performance. Nothing will turn them off of ColdFusion faster than having a poorly configured CF server that crashes routinely. I would love to get into the various schools around MN to help them get ColdFusion servers up and running. Besides the small paycheck involved, I'd really love spreading the ColdFusion goodness. I've already done this for one college in MN. Cheers, Wil Genovese Sr. Web Application Developer/ Systems Administrator Wil Genovese Consulting wilg...@trunkful.com www.trunkful.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334840 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
CF Educational licensing is free if I remember correctly (correct me if I am wrong on that...) -Original Message- From: Jordan Michaels [mailto:jor...@viviotech.net] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:55 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? Windows nn - Windows nn = still sucks. Although I hear Windows 7 sucks less :) Nah. That's crazy talk. My belief is Adobe really needs to get into the schools and teach the new programmers about CF. Agree 100%. I have a bit of a history with educational systems, and talking with some of my past colleagues the other day they indicated they've stopped teaching the majority of Adobe technologies (Flash, Dreamweaver, etc - they still teach Photoshop) because it was too dang expensive to buy even the educational licenses to do so. Many states have made huge cuts in education budgets trying to balance the state budget - so schools are cutting back on software spending to help compensate right now. They *WANT* to teach Adobe technologies, CF could be included with that, but it's just too expensive for them to do so. I don't think Adobe should give software away, even to schools (we all gotta pay the bills, right?) but easing up a little would yield excellent long-term results (and customers!) IMHO. Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ Open BlueDragon Steering Committee Railo Community Distributions On 06/24/2010 05:12 PM, Wil Genovese wrote: A Rose by any other name is still a Rose. And so is a turd a turd. Microsoft is one of the industry kings of rebranding. ASP -- .NET = still a turd IMHO Windows nn - Windows nn = still sucks. Although I hear Windows 7 sucks less :) Only the uninformed fall for the rebranding. The rest can smell the rose or turd as the case may be. My belief is Adobe really needs to get into the schools and teach the new programmers about CF. At the same time focus on managers that make the tech decisions and show them ColdFusion can fill their needs. Then show case very high volume/traffic ColdFusion powered sites and dispel the myths about ColdFusion with live case studies. Wil Genovese Sr. Web Application Developer/ Systems Administrator Wil Genovese Consulting wilg...@trunkful.com www.trunkful.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334844 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Java Fusion Please NO ! Enough Java con-fusion with Java and Javascript. ;-) ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334849 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
RapidFusion! Because developing is so rapid compared to developing in other languages. haha -Original Message- From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Claude_Schn=E9egans [mailto:schneeg...@interneti=71?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?ue.com=3E?=] Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 3:13 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? Java Fusion Please NO ! Enough Java con-fusion with Java and Javascript. ;-) ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334854 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Of course, one downside to that (from the company's standpoint) is once they announce the name, they're kind of locked into a timeline. So, they may release a buggier version of ColdFusion 2011 just to get it out before the end of 2011 rather than having to release CF2011 in 2012 or having to rename it. Scott On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Raymond Camden rcam...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, I'm now straying into OT area, but I must be the only who liked the idea of PRODUCT YEAR as a brand. Ie, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000. To me it was a very clear way to know the release of the version you are using. -- - Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334797 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
With the limitations on budget in today's economic, few companies can afford money for both. I'd much rather the money be spent on development. Frankly, if I get another overpriced glossy marketing packet from Abode when they are cutting staff in product development, I'm gonna barf. On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Dorioo dor...@gmail.com wrote: Maureen, can't both be done? They're not mutually exclusive. Especially when marketing and development are not that dependent on each other. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334800 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Ok, I'm now straying into OT area, but I must be the only who liked the idea of PRODUCT YEAR as a brand. Ie, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000. To me it was a very clear way to know the release of the version you are using. This sounds perfect for Rick. Where's dave when we need'em?? :) ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334814 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
With the limitations on budget in today's economic, few companies can afford money for both. I'd much rather the money be spent on development. Frankly, if I get another overpriced glossy marketing packet from Abode when they are cutting staff in product development, I'm gonna barf. As someone that is in software development and sales myself I can say that you won't HAVE any money for development UNLESS you have sales. So you absolutely need to be putting resources into both. Sure, as a developer in CF I'd prefer that the bulk of resources go to development but that's just not reasonable to expect that all of it would. If in a bad economy that means cutting back some on development, that's understandable. If Adobe feels rebranding will help increase exposure and/or interest in the product, then it certainly should be looked at. I'm dubious that it would make much difference and can't imagine after all these years having to refer to it as anything but ColdFusion but if it might help uptake among certain markets, I can live with that. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334816 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Not really...they do what they have been doing...until the final release is ready call it names like Scorpio. -Original Message- From: Scott Brady [mailto:dsbr...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:03 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? Of course, one downside to that (from the company's standpoint) is once they announce the name, they're kind of locked into a timeline. So, they may release a buggier version of ColdFusion 2011 just to get it out before the end of 2011 rather than having to release CF2011 in 2012 or having to rename it. Scott On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Raymond Camden rcam...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, I'm now straying into OT area, but I must be the only who liked the idea of PRODUCT YEAR as a brand. Ie, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000. To me it was a very clear way to know the release of the version you are using. -- - Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334820 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
A Rose by any other name is still a Rose. And so is a turd a turd. Microsoft is one of the industry kings of rebranding. ASP -- .NET = still a turd IMHO Windows nn - Windows nn = still sucks. Although I hear Windows 7 sucks less :) Only the uninformed fall for the rebranding. The rest can smell the rose or turd as the case may be. My belief is Adobe really needs to get into the schools and teach the new programmers about CF. At the same time focus on managers that make the tech decisions and show them ColdFusion can fill their needs. Then show case very high volume/traffic ColdFusion powered sites and dispel the myths about ColdFusion with live case studies. Wil Genovese Sr. Web Application Developer/ Systems Administrator Wil Genovese Consulting wilg...@trunkful.com www.trunkful.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334825 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Windows nn - Windows nn = still sucks. Although I hear Windows 7 sucks less :) Nah. That's crazy talk. My belief is Adobe really needs to get into the schools and teach the new programmers about CF. Agree 100%. I have a bit of a history with educational systems, and talking with some of my past colleagues the other day they indicated they've stopped teaching the majority of Adobe technologies (Flash, Dreamweaver, etc - they still teach Photoshop) because it was too dang expensive to buy even the educational licenses to do so. Many states have made huge cuts in education budgets trying to balance the state budget - so schools are cutting back on software spending to help compensate right now. They *WANT* to teach Adobe technologies, CF could be included with that, but it's just too expensive for them to do so. I don't think Adobe should give software away, even to schools (we all gotta pay the bills, right?) but easing up a little would yield excellent long-term results (and customers!) IMHO. Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ Open BlueDragon Steering Committee Railo Community Distributions On 06/24/2010 05:12 PM, Wil Genovese wrote: A Rose by any other name is still a Rose. And so is a turd a turd. Microsoft is one of the industry kings of rebranding. ASP -- .NET = still a turd IMHO Windows nn - Windows nn = still sucks. Although I hear Windows 7 sucks less :) Only the uninformed fall for the rebranding. The rest can smell the rose or turd as the case may be. My belief is Adobe really needs to get into the schools and teach the new programmers about CF. At the same time focus on managers that make the tech decisions and show them ColdFusion can fill their needs. Then show case very high volume/traffic ColdFusion powered sites and dispel the myths about ColdFusion with live case studies. Wil Genovese Sr. Web Application Developer/ Systems Administrator Wil Genovese Consulting wilg...@trunkful.com www.trunkful.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334828 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Of course Adobe does in fact give away ColdFusion free to education for exactly this reason: https://freeriatools.adobe.com/ https://freeriatools.adobe.com/ -- WSS4CF - WS-Security framework for CF http://wss4cf.riaforge.org/ On 25 June 2010 08:54, Jordan Michaels jor...@viviotech.net wrote: They *WANT* to teach Adobe technologies, CF could be included with that, but it's just too expensive for them to do so. I don't think Adobe should give software away, even to schools (we all gotta pay the bills, right?) but easing up a little would yield excellent long-term results (and customers!) IMHO. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334830 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Jordan Michaels jor...@viviotech.net wrote: I don't think Adobe should give software away, even to schools (we all gotta pay the bills, right?) but easing up a little would yield excellent long-term results (and customers!) IMHO. ColdFusion, ColdFusion Builder and Flash Builder are all free to educational institutions for teaching purposes. https://freeriatools.adobe.com/ -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334831 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
I knew Adobe had free educational licenses now, my point was more that I think Adobe really needs to market to the college computer science programs and even send people in to teach them how to setup and configure ColdFusion for high performance. Nothing will turn them off of ColdFusion faster than having a poorly configured CF server that crashes routinely. I would love to get into the various schools around MN to help them get ColdFusion servers up and running. Besides the small paycheck involved, I'd really love spreading the ColdFusion goodness. I've already done this for one college in MN. Cheers, Wil Genovese Sr. Web Application Developer/ Systems Administrator Wil Genovese Consulting wilg...@trunkful.com www.trunkful.com On Jun 24, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Sean Corfield wrote: On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Jordan Michaels jor...@viviotech.net wrote: I don't think Adobe should give software away, even to schools (we all gotta pay the bills, right?) but easing up a little would yield excellent long-term results (and customers!) IMHO. ColdFusion, ColdFusion Builder and Flash Builder are all free to educational institutions for teaching purposes. https://freeriatools.adobe.com/ -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334835 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
Timestamp them ;-) -Original Message- From: Ian Skinner [mailto:h...@ilsweb.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:05 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur] On 6/22/2010 11:48 AM, Eric Roberts wrote: Now there's an idea...at least it would help remembering the year they were born hehehehe But could get confusing with twins, triplets, etc as well as people who get really busy and mange to have a birth in the first quarter AND the forth quarter of the year! ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334766 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Robert: Adobe does monitor this list and re-branding is definitely a consideration for our next version. However, defining a new brand takes more than just changing the name. -Adam ColdFusion Product Manager On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:58 AM, Rick Faircloth r...@whitestonemedia.comwrote: Even better! :o) -Original Message- From: DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT) [mailto:sd1...@att.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 5:00 PM To: cf-talk Subject: RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? Wait... Wouldn't that be Ray 2010.1, Ray 2010.2, Ray 2010.3? :) Steve -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:r...@whitestonemedia.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:58 PM To: cf-talk Subject: RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur] Just tag 'em... Ray 1.1, Ray 1.2, Ray 1.3 :o) -Original Message- From: Ian Skinner [mailto:h...@ilsweb.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 3:05 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur] On 6/22/2010 11:48 AM, Eric Roberts wrote: Now there's an idea...at least it would help remembering the year they were born hehehehe But could get confusing with twins, triplets, etc as well as people who get really busy and mange to have a birth in the first quarter AND the forth quarter of the year! ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334784 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
I would much rather Abode spent the time and money on improving and promoting ColdFusion than waste it on the marketing push re-branding would require. On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote: Robert: Adobe does monitor this list and re-branding is definitely a consideration for our next version. However, defining a new brand takes more than just changing the name. -Adam ColdFusion Product Manager ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334795 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Maureen, can't both be done? They're not mutually exclusive. Especially when marketing and development are not that dependent on each other. - Gabriel On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Maureen mamamaur...@gmail.com wrote: I would much rather Abode spent the time and money on improving and promoting ColdFusion than waste it on the marketing push re-branding would require. On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote: Robert: Adobe does monitor this list and re-branding is definitely a consideration for our next version. However, defining a new brand takes more than just changing the name. -Adam ColdFusion Product Manager ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334796 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Trivia fact: Macromedia did consider rebranding the product for 6.0, which as we all know was the first version to be built on Java. On 22 June 2010 05:39, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Robert Harrison rob...@austin-williams.com wrote: Because the best links I got out of my previous email were at best bleak. The best link prompted an on-list response that we have 4 years to learn a new language. Bear in mind that Microsoft introduced ASP at the end of 1996 and essentially replaced it with ASP.NET just five years later. ASP.NET is just over 8 years old. CFML is already 15 years old and still going strong with a new version already being planned (and I believe Adobe have said they have the next two versions on their schedule which probably stretches out about four years - so you've got a couple of years at least of CF11 after that before, no doubt, CF12 follows it and so on). That Gartner report also said the rise of free open source CFML engine helps protect your investment in CF technology (because there will always be runtime engines for it). The suggestion to rebrand ColdFusion (it's one word, not two, BTW), comes up in most ColdFusion is Dead discussions and, as folks tend to point out, renaming it won't magically make it more popular (unfortunately). Adobe seem very dedicated to ColdFusion. They just invested a lot of time and money creating an IDE for it (ColdFusion Builder rocks!). The CF product team folks are currently visiting customers getting feedback for ColdFusion 10 and ColdFusion Builder 2.0 (and later versions - they've already outlined a release schedule that has CFB2 and CFB3). -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334716 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
On Monday 21 Jun 2010 20:20:11 you wrote: I don't know if anyone from Adobe monitors this list, but I'm thinking it may be time to consider rebranding CF. Sigh. Do we have to have the 'ActionScript Server' argument again too ? -- Tom Chiverton Helping to proactively network enterprise real-time integrated sexy content as part of the IT team of the year 2010, '09 and '08 This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office together with a list of those non members who are referred to as partners. We use the word partner to refer to a member of the LLP, or an employee or consultant with equivalent standing and qualifications. Regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.co ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334717 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Trivia fact: Macromedia did consider rebranding the product for 6.0, which as we all know was the first version to be built on Java. They sort of did, a little bit, when they added that MX nonsense to the name. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334721 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Ok, I'm now straying into OT area, but I must be the only who liked the idea of PRODUCT YEAR as a brand. Ie, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000. To me it was a very clear way to know the release of the version you are using. On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Justin Scott jscott-li...@gravityfree.com wrote: Trivia fact: Macromedia did consider rebranding the product for 6.0, which as we all know was the first version to be built on Java. They sort of did, a little bit, when they added that MX nonsense to the name. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334723 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Yes you are straying OT, and yes, I agree with you. :) On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Raymond Camden rcam...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, I'm now straying into OT area, but I must be the only who liked the idea of PRODUCT YEAR as a brand. Ie, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000. To me it was a very clear way to know the release of the version you are using. On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Justin Scott jscott-li...@gravityfree.com wrote: Trivia fact: Macromedia did consider rebranding the product for 6.0, which as we all know was the first version to be built on Java. They sort of did, a little bit, when they added that MX nonsense to the name. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334726 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
The flip side of that is it's also too easy to tell how out of date you are. :) -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:rcam...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:48 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? Ok, I'm now straying into OT area, but I must be the only who liked the idea of PRODUCT YEAR as a brand. Ie, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000. To me it was a very clear way to know the release of the version you are using. On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Justin Scott jscott-li...@gravityfree.com wrote: Trivia fact: Macromedia did consider rebranding the product for 6.0, which as we all know was the first version to be built on Java. They sort of did, a little bit, when they added that MX nonsense to the name. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334727 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Andy Matthews li...@commadelimited.com wrote: The flip side of that is it's also too easy to tell how out of date you are. Which is a great thing I think. Instead of asking why won't this code work on CF5?, people would be forced to sheepishly ask why won't this code work on CF2000?. -Cameron ... ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334736 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Do we really want Livecycle Application Server? ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334737 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
I agree with you there Ray...it does delineate it nicely. -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:rcam...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:48 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? Ok, I'm now straying into OT area, but I must be the only who liked the idea of PRODUCT YEAR as a brand. Ie, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000. To me it was a very clear way to know the release of the version you are using. On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Justin Scott jscott-li...@gravityfree.com wrote: Trivia fact: Macromedia did consider rebranding the product for 6.0, which as we all know was the first version to be built on Java. They sort of did, a little bit, when they added that MX nonsense to the name. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334738 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
It works on getting managers to upgrade too! We're still running CF2000, when CF2009 is already out. We're 9 years behind everyone else! Thanks, Eric Cobb ECAR Technologies, LLC http://www.ecartech.com http://www.cfgears.com Cameron Childress wrote: On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Andy Matthews li...@commadelimited.com wrote: The flip side of that is it's also too easy to tell how out of date you are. Which is a great thing I think. Instead of asking why won't this code work on CF5?, people would be forced to sheepishly ask why won't this code work on CF2000?. -Cameron ... ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334741 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
On 6/22/2010 8:47 PM, Raymond Camden wrote: Ok, I'm now straying into OT area, but I must be the only who liked the idea of PRODUCT YEAR as a brand. Ie, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000. To me it was a very clear way to know the release of the version you are using. named you kids that way too ray? ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334746 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
Now there's an idea...at least it would help remembering the year they were born hehehehe -Original Message- From: Paul Hastings [mailto:p...@sustainablegis.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:45 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur] On 6/22/2010 8:47 PM, Raymond Camden wrote: Ok, I'm now straying into OT area, but I must be the only who liked the idea of PRODUCT YEAR as a brand. Ie, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000. To me it was a very clear way to know the release of the version you are using. named you kids that way too ray? ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334749 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
On 6/22/2010 11:48 AM, Eric Roberts wrote: Now there's an idea...at least it would help remembering the year they were born hehehehe But could get confusing with twins, triplets, etc as well as people who get really busy and mange to have a birth in the first quarter AND the forth quarter of the year! ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334750 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
Those are service pack releases. On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Ian Skinner h...@ilsweb.com wrote: On 6/22/2010 11:48 AM, Eric Roberts wrote: Now there's an idea...at least it would help remembering the year they were born hehehehe But could get confusing with twins, triplets, etc as well as people who get really busy and mange to have a birth in the first quarter AND the forth quarter of the year! ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334752 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
Just tag 'em... Ray 1.1, Ray 1.2, Ray 1.3 :o) -Original Message- From: Ian Skinner [mailto:h...@ilsweb.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 3:05 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur] On 6/22/2010 11:48 AM, Eric Roberts wrote: Now there's an idea...at least it would help remembering the year they were born hehehehe But could get confusing with twins, triplets, etc as well as people who get really busy and mange to have a birth in the first quarter AND the forth quarter of the year! ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334753 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Wait... Wouldn't that be Ray 2010.1, Ray 2010.2, Ray 2010.3? :) Steve -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:r...@whitestonemedia.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:58 PM To: cf-talk Subject: RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur] Just tag 'em... Ray 1.1, Ray 1.2, Ray 1.3 :o) -Original Message- From: Ian Skinner [mailto:h...@ilsweb.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 3:05 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur] On 6/22/2010 11:48 AM, Eric Roberts wrote: Now there's an idea...at least it would help remembering the year they were born hehehehe But could get confusing with twins, triplets, etc as well as people who get really busy and mange to have a birth in the first quarter AND the forth quarter of the year! ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334754 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Even better! :o) -Original Message- From: DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT) [mailto:sd1...@att.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 5:00 PM To: cf-talk Subject: RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? Wait... Wouldn't that be Ray 2010.1, Ray 2010.2, Ray 2010.3? :) Steve -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:r...@whitestonemedia.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:58 PM To: cf-talk Subject: RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur] Just tag 'em... Ray 1.1, Ray 1.2, Ray 1.3 :o) -Original Message- From: Ian Skinner [mailto:h...@ilsweb.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 3:05 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur] On 6/22/2010 11:48 AM, Eric Roberts wrote: Now there's an idea...at least it would help remembering the year they were born hehehehe But could get confusing with twins, triplets, etc as well as people who get really busy and mange to have a birth in the first quarter AND the forth quarter of the year! ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334762 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
I'd suggest taking this discussion to Adobe and their forums, rather than here, but I would also suggest that when you do so you might want to not have your suggestions include the words Java or J2EE since those are trademarks not owned by Adobe. Judah On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Robert Harrison rob...@austin-williams.com wrote: I don't know if anyone from Adobe monitors this list, but I'm thinking it may be time to consider rebranding CF. Right now, the way it's branded (and named), the argument is Cold Fusion vs. .NET. That is a hard argument, but the argument of .NET vs J2EE or Adobe vs. Microsoft is a much easier argument. I'm thinking with some simple rebranding Adobe could really strengthen Cold Fusion. A simple name change (product branding update) could shift the entire argument. What if Cold Fusion was renamed to something more branded to the J2EE architecture on which is runs or which at least leveraged the Adobe name. Say something like: CF Java Java Fusion Fusion J2EE Adobe Web Fusion Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? Robert B. Harrison Director of Interactive Services Austin Williams 125 Kennedy Drive, Suite 100 Hauppauge NY 11788 P : 631.231.6600 Ext. 119 F : 631.434.7022 http://www.austin-williams.com Great advertising can't be either/or. It must be . Plug in to our blog: AW Unplugged http://www.austin-williams.com/unplugged __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5216 (20100621) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334694 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
If Adobe truly wants CF to succeed they should change it's name to ASP.Net *rimshot* Honestly I don't think rebranding will do much for it. The greater community at large looks down on CF and always will no matter what you call it. I love CF but that's beside the point. On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Judah McAuley ju...@wiredotter.com wrote: I'd suggest taking this discussion to Adobe and their forums, rather than here, but I would also suggest that when you do so you might want to not have your suggestions include the words Java or J2EE since those are trademarks not owned by Adobe. Judah On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Robert Harrison rob...@austin-williams.com wrote: I don't know if anyone from Adobe monitors this list, but I'm thinking it may be time to consider rebranding CF. Right now, the way it's branded (and named), the argument is Cold Fusion vs. .NET. That is a hard argument, but the argument of .NET vs J2EE or Adobe vs. Microsoft is a much easier argument. I'm thinking with some simple rebranding Adobe could really strengthen Cold Fusion. A simple name change (product branding update) could shift the entire argument. What if Cold Fusion was renamed to something more branded to the J2EE architecture on which is runs or which at least leveraged the Adobe name. Say something like: CF Java Java Fusion Fusion J2EE Adobe Web Fusion Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? Robert B. Harrison Director of Interactive Services Austin Williams 125 Kennedy Drive, Suite 100 Hauppauge NY 11788 P : 631.231.6600 Ext. 119 F : 631.434.7022 http://www.austin-williams.com Great advertising can't be either/or. It must be . Plug in to our blog: AW Unplugged http://www.austin-williams.com/unplugged __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5216 (20100621) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334695 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Right now, the way it's branded (and named), the argument is Cold Fusion vs. .NET. Why do you say that? That is a hard argument, Why do you say that? but the argument of .NET vs J2EE or Adobe vs. Microsoft is a much easier argument. Why do you say that? Honestly, I'm not trying to be difficult, but none of those statements really seem to be as self-evident as you seem to think. ColdFusion is not just a competitor with .NET; it's a competitor with pure J2EE solutions. But if you were going to cast this as CF vs .NET, there are plenty of compelling arguments you can make for choosing CF over .NET. (And a decent number for choosing .NET also.) The same is true for .NET vs J2EE. And finally, Adobe vs Microsoft isn't a great argument to make in favor of CF - plenty of people use MS server products. Where's Adobe's server OS? Their database platform? Their Sharepoint analog? etc, etc, etc. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334696 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Right now, the way it's branded (and named), the argument is Cold Fusion vs. .NET.Why do you say that? Because the best links I got out of my previous email were at best bleak. The best link prompted an on-list response that we have 4 years to learn a new language. but the argument of .NET vs J2EE or Adobe vs. Microsoft is a much easier argument. Why do you say that? Because that's the argument Ben Forta makes in his blog: http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/node/46362 Comparing ASP.NET to ColdFusion is difficult. Actually, it's not just difficult, it's simply incorrect, and not an apples-to-apples comparison... In other words, deciding between ColdFusion and ASP.NET (and indeed, defending ColdFusion against ASP.NET) first requires a .NET versus J2EE discussion Robert B. Harrison Director of Interactive Services Austin Williams 125 Kennedy Drive, Suite 100 Hauppauge NY 11788 P : 631.231.6600 Ext. 119 F : 631.434.7022 http://www.austin-williams.com Great advertising can't be either/or. It must be . Plug in to our blog: AW Unplugged http://www.austin-williams.com/unplugged -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 3:36 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? Right now, the way it's branded (and named), the argument is Cold Fusion vs. .NET. Why do you say that? That is a hard argument, Why do you say that? but the argument of .NET vs J2EE or Adobe vs. Microsoft is a much easier argument. Why do you say that? Honestly, I'm not trying to be difficult, but none of those statements really seem to be as self-evident as you seem to think. ColdFusion is not just a competitor with .NET; it's a competitor with pure J2EE solutions. But if you were going to cast this as CF vs .NET, there are plenty of compelling arguments you can make for choosing CF over .NET. (And a decent number for choosing .NET also.) The same is true for .NET vs J2EE. And finally, Adobe vs Microsoft isn't a great argument to make in favor of CF - plenty of people use MS server products. Where's Adobe's server OS? Their database platform? Their Sharepoint analog? etc, etc, etc. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334697 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
On 6/21/2010 12:44 PM, Robert Harrison wrote: Because the best links I got out of my previous email were at best bleak. The best link prompted an on-list response that we have 4 years to learn a new language. A) White papers like that can not project more then 5 years out. Heck even 5 years is probably as much voodoo as statistics. So this can't be read to say ColdFusion *will* be in decline in 5 years. Rather it is saying We don't know what will be going on in 5 years. B) I find that people who learn to *program* are much less defined by the language(s) in which they program. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334698 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Not to stir the pot any more than it already is, but I wanted to point out two quick things: 1) That's not Ben Forta's blog you linked to. 2) That article was published 6 years ago. Carry on Thanks, Eric Cobb ECAR Technologies, LLC http://www.ecartech.com http://www.cfgears.com Robert Harrison wrote: Right now, the way it's branded (and named), the argument is Cold Fusion vs. .NET.Why do you say that? Because the best links I got out of my previous email were at best bleak. The best link prompted an on-list response that we have 4 years to learn a new language. but the argument of .NET vs J2EE or Adobe vs. Microsoft is a much easier argument. Why do you say that? Because that's the argument Ben Forta makes in his blog: http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/node/46362 Comparing ASP.NET to ColdFusion is difficult. Actually, it's not just difficult, it's simply incorrect, and not an apples-to-apples comparison... In other words, deciding between ColdFusion and ASP.NET (and indeed, defending ColdFusion against ASP.NET) first requires a .NET versus J2EE discussion Robert B. Harrison Director of Interactive Services Austin Williams 125 Kennedy Drive, Suite 100 Hauppauge NY 11788 P : 631.231.6600 Ext. 119 F : 631.434.7022 http://www.austin-williams.com Great advertising can't be either/or. It must be . Plug in to our blog: AW Unplugged http://www.austin-williams.com/unplugged -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 3:36 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion? Right now, the way it's branded (and named), the argument is Cold Fusion vs. .NET. Why do you say that? That is a hard argument, Why do you say that? but the argument of .NET vs J2EE or Adobe vs. Microsoft is a much easier argument. Why do you say that? Honestly, I'm not trying to be difficult, but none of those statements really seem to be as self-evident as you seem to think. ColdFusion is not just a competitor with .NET; it's a competitor with pure J2EE solutions. But if you were going to cast this as CF vs .NET, there are plenty of compelling arguments you can make for choosing CF over .NET. (And a decent number for choosing .NET also.) The same is true for .NET vs J2EE. And finally, Adobe vs Microsoft isn't a great argument to make in favor of CF - plenty of people use MS server products. Where's Adobe's server OS? Their database platform? Their Sharepoint analog? etc, etc, etc. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334699 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
Because the best links I got out of my previous email were at best bleak. The best link prompted an on-list response that we have 4 years to learn a new language. I don't get where CF vs .NET led to that. The Gartner paper isn't CF vs .NET. It's an overall forecast on the value and the viability of CF. Because that's the argument Ben Forta makes in his blog: http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/node/46362 Comparing ASP.NET to ColdFusion is difficult. Actually, it's not just difficult, it's simply incorrect, and not an apples-to-apples comparison... In other words, deciding between ColdFusion and ASP.NET (and indeed, defending ColdFusion against ASP.NET) first requires a .NET versus J2EE discussion Well, that's a technical argument, and while technically accurate it's not going to convince the people in charge of the technicians. If I'm the guy making purchasing decisions, I can choose to go with Adobe's solution, Microsoft's solution, or any one of a bunch of other solutions. The fact that there's not a one-to-one correspondence between ASP.NET and CF doesn't really matter. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334701 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Is it time for Adobe to Rebrand Cold Fusion?
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Robert Harrison rob...@austin-williams.com wrote: Because the best links I got out of my previous email were at best bleak. The best link prompted an on-list response that we have 4 years to learn a new language. Bear in mind that Microsoft introduced ASP at the end of 1996 and essentially replaced it with ASP.NET just five years later. ASP.NET is just over 8 years old. CFML is already 15 years old and still going strong with a new version already being planned (and I believe Adobe have said they have the next two versions on their schedule which probably stretches out about four years - so you've got a couple of years at least of CF11 after that before, no doubt, CF12 follows it and so on). That Gartner report also said the rise of free open source CFML engine helps protect your investment in CF technology (because there will always be runtime engines for it). The suggestion to rebrand ColdFusion (it's one word, not two, BTW), comes up in most ColdFusion is Dead discussions and, as folks tend to point out, renaming it won't magically make it more popular (unfortunately). Adobe seem very dedicated to ColdFusion. They just invested a lot of time and money creating an IDE for it (ColdFusion Builder rocks!). The CF product team folks are currently visiting customers getting feedback for ColdFusion 10 and ColdFusion Builder 2.0 (and later versions - they've already outlined a release schedule that has CFB2 and CFB3). -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:334715 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
