What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
Hi all, (warning, this is kinda confusing email) Been following the list for some time and specially paying attention to what could be the killer clojure app as Akka is for Scala. I keep seeing small libs (I like libs) popping up like ants, but I don't believe none of them (alone at least) can make clojure explode and become main technology in a old school /ordinary company. People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... Pulsar is quite dead, core async isn't clear regarding remoting, and avout? And lamina? And aleph? Where are the tools that can make clojure to cover from Web to big data and batch? Luminous, caribou, etc, are they going to become the next grails? Huumm.. Will take lot of time. Clojure Script alone will not go any further than the current server side. What made me give up scala was Scalaz, and I hope the create thousand disconnected libs and publish a post with ANN sufix approach doesn't make me give up clojure. Sorry guys, I've been posting about Clojure since 2009, and still can't see it becoming the main technology even being the CTO of the company. What is the killer app for you? Or how do you think we can make clojure supporting apps like Facebook or something big like that? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com writes: Sorry guys, I've been posting about Clojure since 2009, and still can't see it becoming the main technology even being the CTO of the company. What is the killer app for you? Or how do you think we can make clojure supporting apps like Facebook or something big like that? Being on the list a few days only I can tell you the 'killer-use-case' a complete newbie was looking for: clojure for android. Clojure apps that run as smooth as java apps but are (by the very nature of clojure) much more convenient to write would probably open up some doors in the enterprise world. I've seen real Scala for Android jobs already, hopefully there will be Clojure for Android jobs in the future too. -- cheers, Thorsten -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
Hi Paulo. 2014-04-19 18:15 GMT+02:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: Hi all, (warning, this is kinda confusing email) Been following the list for some time and specially paying attention to what could be the killer clojure app as Akka is for Scala. I keep seeing small libs (I like libs) popping up like ants, but I don't believe none of them (alone at least) can make clojure explode and become main technology in a old school /ordinary company. People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... Pulsar is quite dead, core async isn't clear regarding remoting, and avout? And lamina? And aleph? Where are the tools that can make clojure to cover from Web to big data and batch? Pulsar is dead? Really? https://github.com/puniverse/pulsar/commit/1bb398cff65017c79d04bedd26915bca03a7752124 days ago the last commit preparing new release. I follow the development of pulsar and quasar and it not seems dead. distributed/remote communication is not target of CSP and core.async but can be implemented without much problems over any existing transport protocols: http://niwibe.github.io/jnanomsg/#_async_support (example implementing clojure channels over nanomsg) Luminous, caribou, etc, are they going to become the next grails? Huumm.. Will take lot of time. Clojure Script alone will not go any further than the current server side. What made me give up scala was Scalaz, and I hope the create thousand disconnected libs and publish a post with ANN sufix approach doesn't make me give up clojure. Creating one unique library that includes and integrates everything is really a solution? I believe not. Sorry guys, I've been posting about Clojure since 2009, and still can't see it becoming the main technology even being the CTO of the company. What is the killer app for you? Or how do you think we can make clojure supporting apps like Facebook or something big like that? In summary: erlang/elixir has actors, scala has actors (and very slow compiller...), prolog has logic programming, go has csp and clojure has all them. Really you need a killer app? Sorry I don't understand the motivation of this email :( Andrey -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Andrey Antukh - Андрей Антух - andrei.anto...@kaleidos.net / n...@niwi.be http://www.niwi.be http://www.niwi.be/page/about/ https://github.com/niwibe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
The 'killer' problem domain for clojure is the same as that of any lisp: the creation of domain-specific languages. There exist a plethora of problems which are awkward to solve using conventional programming, and clojure's macros make it easier. An example is twitter's storm project. It's a real-time processing project, which partitions your problem space into a set of nodes which route data between them in 'streams.' There are two most common ways to interact with it, the clojure dsl and the scala project called Summingbird. In clojure, it is possible to define the entirety of the logic that is related to the structure of the system in about 10 lines, plus another 2-3 for each transformation or input/output. In scala? You'll need to make sure that your Producer[P#Store[Datatype, Producer], Sink[Producer[Store]] type wrappers line up in *every single part of your logic*. I exaggerate, but inherent in this comparison is a truth that both systems need to do the same thing to interact with the library. In other languages, the exceptional part of your domain will taint every line of logic that you seek to write. In clojure, a library writer can do the heavy lifting for you. They can silently constrain what you can instruct, for safety and expressiveness. You don't write clojure, you write the entirely new language that you've made for your domain. With macros, it is trivial to make a solution only need to state the solution in the language of the problem domain, rather than the language of the programming language. Lisp, and clojure, allow you to grow the language up to meet you. In such a way, you can achieve high productivity without sacrificing safety or performance. The killer app for clojure is whatever you make it out to be. If you've found that you cannot recommend clojure because there isn't an amazing library or framework for your problem domain, the fault lies not with the language but with you. On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 12:15 PM, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, (warning, this is kinda confusing email) Been following the list for some time and specially paying attention to what could be the killer clojure app as Akka is for Scala. I keep seeing small libs (I like libs) popping up like ants, but I don't believe none of them (alone at least) can make clojure explode and become main technology in a old school /ordinary company. People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... Pulsar is quite dead, core async isn't clear regarding remoting, and avout? And lamina? And aleph? Where are the tools that can make clojure to cover from Web to big data and batch? Luminous, caribou, etc, are they going to become the next grails? Huumm.. Will take lot of time. Clojure Script alone will not go any further than the current server side. What made me give up scala was Scalaz, and I hope the create thousand disconnected libs and publish a post with ANN sufix approach doesn't make me give up clojure. Sorry guys, I've been posting about Clojure since 2009, and still can't see it becoming the main technology even being the CTO of the company. What is the killer app for you? Or how do you think we can make clojure supporting apps like Facebook or something big like that? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
How to import under an alias?
Hello everyone! I'm reading the clojure introduction at clojure-doc, I'm currently on namespaces, and after reading about: (require '[clojure.string :as str]) I tried to do: user= (require '[javax.swing.JOptionPane/showMessageDialog :as Diag]) so I could do: user= (Diag nil Hello Clojure!) but I get: FileNotFoundException Could not locate showMessageDialog__init.class or showMessageDialog.clj on classpath: clojure.lang.RT.load (RT.java:443) I only know Python, I'm trying to do something analogous to this in Jython: from javax.swing.JOptionPane import showMessageDialog as Diag Diag(None, Hello Jython!) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
Hi, And there's Storm that could be worth mentioning... used by some (very) large companies (twitter ,groupon, etc...) and a success story. Also prismatic is a good example, and I could mention more companies/products, some that were acquired by big players, others used by millions, netflix comes to mind. About data access we have clients/drivers for any datastore you can think of, and there are tons of excellent web related libs both on front/back-end sides. I am not sure a huge monolithic monster ala rails is something to desire really. Depending on what you do, clojure can be a very good choice for a company/product. We use it as our main backend techno were I work, and we dont' regret that choice, kind of the opposite. Having access to the immense java ecosystem paired with the versatility that clojure gives us (+ its ecosystem) is a big win. On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:27:35 PM UTC+2, Andrey Antukh wrote: Hi Paulo. 2014-04-19 18:15 GMT+02:00 Paulo Suzart paulo...@gmail.com javascript: : Hi all, (warning, this is kinda confusing email) Been following the list for some time and specially paying attention to what could be the killer clojure app as Akka is for Scala. I keep seeing small libs (I like libs) popping up like ants, but I don't believe none of them (alone at least) can make clojure explode and become main technology in a old school /ordinary company. People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... Pulsar is quite dead, core async isn't clear regarding remoting, and avout? And lamina? And aleph? Where are the tools that can make clojure to cover from Web to big data and batch? Pulsar is dead? Really? https://github.com/puniverse/pulsar/commit/1bb398cff65017c79d04bedd26915bca03a7752124 days ago the last commit preparing new release. I follow the development of pulsar and quasar and it not seems dead. distributed/remote communication is not target of CSP and core.async but can be implemented without much problems over any existing transport protocols: http://niwibe.github.io/jnanomsg/#_async_support (example implementing clojure channels over nanomsg) Luminous, caribou, etc, are they going to become the next grails? Huumm.. Will take lot of time. Clojure Script alone will not go any further than the current server side. What made me give up scala was Scalaz, and I hope the create thousand disconnected libs and publish a post with ANN sufix approach doesn't make me give up clojure. Creating one unique library that includes and integrates everything is really a solution? I believe not. Sorry guys, I've been posting about Clojure since 2009, and still can't see it becoming the main technology even being the CTO of the company. What is the killer app for you? Or how do you think we can make clojure supporting apps like Facebook or something big like that? In summary: erlang/elixir has actors, scala has actors (and very slow compiller...), prolog has logic programming, go has csp and clojure has all them. Really you need a killer app? Sorry I don't understand the motivation of this email :( Andrey -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.comjavascript: Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com javascript: For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com javascript:. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Andrey Antukh - Андрей Антух - andrei@kaleidos.net javascript: / ni...@niwi.be javascript: http://www.niwi.be http://www.niwi.be/page/about/ https://github.com/niwibe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
One point that makes me wonder is this: One of the points touted a lot is the availability of immense ecosystem of Java. How does one balance switching between immutable and mutable objects once Java objects are brought into the mix. I have never used Java and Clojure together yet since this question has always bothered me. I tend to think that this mix would negate a lot of strength Clojure would give me, barring the functional style of programming I get to use along with Java objects. I would also love to see some good example of such a mix and if there are any guidelines on how to use them seamlessly without doing the guess work of dealing with a mix of immutable and mutable objects. Thanks On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Max Penet m...@qbits.cc wrote: Hi, And there's Storm that could be worth mentioning... used by some (very) large companies (twitter ,groupon, etc...) and a success story. Also prismatic is a good example, and I could mention more companies/products, some that were acquired by big players, others used by millions, netflix comes to mind. About data access we have clients/drivers for any datastore you can think of, and there are tons of excellent web related libs both on front/back-end sides. I am not sure a huge monolithic monster ala rails is something to desire really. Depending on what you do, clojure can be a very good choice for a company/product. We use it as our main backend techno were I work, and we dont' regret that choice, kind of the opposite. Having access to the immense java ecosystem paired with the versatility that clojure gives us (+ its ecosystem) is a big win. On Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:27:35 PM UTC+2, Andrey Antukh wrote: Hi Paulo. 2014-04-19 18:15 GMT+02:00 Paulo Suzart paulo...@gmail.com: Hi all, (warning, this is kinda confusing email) Been following the list for some time and specially paying attention to what could be the killer clojure app as Akka is for Scala. I keep seeing small libs (I like libs) popping up like ants, but I don't believe none of them (alone at least) can make clojure explode and become main technology in a old school /ordinary company. People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... Pulsar is quite dead, core async isn't clear regarding remoting, and avout? And lamina? And aleph? Where are the tools that can make clojure to cover from Web to big data and batch? Pulsar is dead? Really? https://github.com/puniverse/pulsar/commit/ 1bb398cff65017c79d04bedd26915bca03a77521 24 days ago the last commit preparing new release. I follow the development of pulsar and quasar and it not seems dead. distributed/remote communication is not target of CSP and core.async but can be implemented without much problems over any existing transport protocols: http://niwibe.github.io/jnanomsg/#_async_support (example implementing clojure channels over nanomsg) Luminous, caribou, etc, are they going to become the next grails? Huumm.. Will take lot of time. Clojure Script alone will not go any further than the current server side. What made me give up scala was Scalaz, and I hope the create thousand disconnected libs and publish a post with ANN sufix approach doesn't make me give up clojure. Creating one unique library that includes and integrates everything is really a solution? I believe not. Sorry guys, I've been posting about Clojure since 2009, and still can't see it becoming the main technology even being the CTO of the company. What is the killer app for you? Or how do you think we can make clojure supporting apps like Facebook or something big like that? In summary: erlang/elixir has actors, scala has actors (and very slow compiller...), prolog has logic programming, go has csp and clojure has all them. Really you need a killer app? Sorry I don't understand the motivation of this email :( Andrey -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Andrey Antukh - Андрей Антух - andrei@kaleidos.net / ni...@niwi.be http://www.niwi.be http://www.niwi.be/page/about/ https://github.com/niwibe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
Why does Clojure need a single killer app? I use Clojure because it has a wide range of useful tools, not because of any one tool in particular. To my mind, any language that promotes itself on the basis of a single tool is indicative of specialisation, which isn't what I want in a programming language. For instance, back in 2008, Ruby on Rails was the killer app of Ruby, but the rest of the ecosystem of the library was rather bare. Nowadays Ruby has a far greater range of libraries and tools, and Rails has become just one tool out of many, rather than the sole reason people turn to the language. That said, Clojure boasts several tools that aren't found many other places, and yet are extremely useful. Recently I've been using core.async, and now I find it difficult to imagine handling asynchronous communications without it. I'd almost say that was a killer app if Clojure didn't have so many other tools that have features that are just as compelling. - James On 19 April 2014 17:15, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, (warning, this is kinda confusing email) Been following the list for some time and specially paying attention to what could be the killer clojure app as Akka is for Scala. I keep seeing small libs (I like libs) popping up like ants, but I don't believe none of them (alone at least) can make clojure explode and become main technology in a old school /ordinary company. People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... Pulsar is quite dead, core async isn't clear regarding remoting, and avout? And lamina? And aleph? Where are the tools that can make clojure to cover from Web to big data and batch? Luminous, caribou, etc, are they going to become the next grails? Huumm.. Will take lot of time. Clojure Script alone will not go any further than the current server side. What made me give up scala was Scalaz, and I hope the create thousand disconnected libs and publish a post with ANN sufix approach doesn't make me give up clojure. Sorry guys, I've been posting about Clojure since 2009, and still can't see it becoming the main technology even being the CTO of the company. What is the killer app for you? Or how do you think we can make clojure supporting apps like Facebook or something big like that? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: How to import under an alias?
Clojure namespaces do not interop with java objects like that except for the 'import' statement. The best you can do: (import '[javax.swing JOptionPane]) (JOptionPane/showMessageDialog nil Hello Clojure) On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Ismael VC ismael.vc1...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone! I'm reading the clojure introduction at clojure-doc, I'm currently on namespaces, and after reading about: (require '[clojure.string :as str]) I tried to do: user= (require '[javax.swing.JOptionPane/showMessageDialog :as Diag]) so I could do: user= (Diag nil Hello Clojure!) but I get: FileNotFoundException Could not locate showMessageDialog__init.class or showMessageDialog.clj on classpath: clojure.lang.RT.load (RT.java:443) I only know Python, I'm trying to do something analogous to this in Jython: from javax.swing.JOptionPane import showMessageDialog as Diag Diag(None, Hello Jython!) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
Clojure's killer app is immutable datastructures. Libraries can interoperate extremely easily because their interface is described with simple data structures. What's Java got for this? Spring? Design Patterns? On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 2:47 PM, James Reeves ja...@booleanknot.com wrote: Why does Clojure need a single killer app? I use Clojure because it has a wide range of useful tools, not because of any one tool in particular. To my mind, any language that promotes itself on the basis of a single tool is indicative of specialisation, which isn't what I want in a programming language. For instance, back in 2008, Ruby on Rails was the killer app of Ruby, but the rest of the ecosystem of the library was rather bare. Nowadays Ruby has a far greater range of libraries and tools, and Rails has become just one tool out of many, rather than the sole reason people turn to the language. That said, Clojure boasts several tools that aren't found many other places, and yet are extremely useful. Recently I've been using core.async, and now I find it difficult to imagine handling asynchronous communications without it. I'd almost say that was a killer app if Clojure didn't have so many other tools that have features that are just as compelling. - James On 19 April 2014 17:15, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, (warning, this is kinda confusing email) Been following the list for some time and specially paying attention to what could be the killer clojure app as Akka is for Scala. I keep seeing small libs (I like libs) popping up like ants, but I don't believe none of them (alone at least) can make clojure explode and become main technology in a old school /ordinary company. People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... Pulsar is quite dead, core async isn't clear regarding remoting, and avout? And lamina? And aleph? Where are the tools that can make clojure to cover from Web to big data and batch? Luminous, caribou, etc, are they going to become the next grails? Huumm.. Will take lot of time. Clojure Script alone will not go any further than the current server side. What made me give up scala was Scalaz, and I hope the create thousand disconnected libs and publish a post with ANN sufix approach doesn't make me give up clojure. Sorry guys, I've been posting about Clojure since 2009, and still can't see it becoming the main technology even being the CTO of the company. What is the killer app for you? Or how do you think we can make clojure supporting apps like Facebook or something big like that? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
When people say killer app what they mean is silver bullet. The problem with silver bullets, is while they are quite exceptional at killing vampires, they are often somewhat subpar when it comes to dispatching other monsters of the night, such as ogres. Or at least so I've been told by my friends. I think the biggest strength of Clojure is that it tries at all costs to avoid silver bullets. Sure, actors may work for your project, but they are very horribly suited to most of my projects. Logic programming has its uses, writing a logging system is probably not one of them. Frankly I find it a shame that Akka has taken off to such an extent that apparently many Scala developers reach to it first, the moment they hear distributed. Some criticize CSP (and core.async) of being ill suited to distributed programming, that may be somewhat true, since channels are transactional and provide guaranteed delivery, but so what? Nothing's stopping developers from removing a single CSP channel from their system and replacing it with RabbitMQ, JMQ or any of a dozen other methods. In fact, certain aspects of actors (mailboxes) can be implemented on top of CSP. Many people (including myself) have done that with core.async. As far as enterprise adoption, I see blue skies there. Both Walmart and Staples had booths at Clojure/West. So what's the killer app of Clojure? I think it's werewolves. I heard an quote once from an interview with one of the developers of Datomic. The question was: How long would it have taken you to build Datomic without Clojure. His response was: about 4 years...2 years to write Clojure from scratch, and another 2 years to write Datomic on top of it. The idea being, that the very essence of Clojure, the concurrency primitives, the immutable data structures, the fact normal code is pretty darn fast, is a killer app in and of itself. As a co-worker once said, Clojure doesn't give you silver bullets, it turns you into a werewolf! Timothy On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Gary Trakhman gary.trakh...@gmail.comwrote: Clojure's killer app is immutable datastructures. Libraries can interoperate extremely easily because their interface is described with simple data structures. What's Java got for this? Spring? Design Patterns? On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 2:47 PM, James Reeves ja...@booleanknot.comwrote: Why does Clojure need a single killer app? I use Clojure because it has a wide range of useful tools, not because of any one tool in particular. To my mind, any language that promotes itself on the basis of a single tool is indicative of specialisation, which isn't what I want in a programming language. For instance, back in 2008, Ruby on Rails was the killer app of Ruby, but the rest of the ecosystem of the library was rather bare. Nowadays Ruby has a far greater range of libraries and tools, and Rails has become just one tool out of many, rather than the sole reason people turn to the language. That said, Clojure boasts several tools that aren't found many other places, and yet are extremely useful. Recently I've been using core.async, and now I find it difficult to imagine handling asynchronous communications without it. I'd almost say that was a killer app if Clojure didn't have so many other tools that have features that are just as compelling. - James On 19 April 2014 17:15, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, (warning, this is kinda confusing email) Been following the list for some time and specially paying attention to what could be the killer clojure app as Akka is for Scala. I keep seeing small libs (I like libs) popping up like ants, but I don't believe none of them (alone at least) can make clojure explode and become main technology in a old school /ordinary company. People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... Pulsar is quite dead, core async isn't clear regarding remoting, and avout? And lamina? And aleph? Where are the tools that can make clojure to cover from Web to big data and batch? Luminous, caribou, etc, are they going to become the next grails? Huumm.. Will take lot of time. Clojure Script alone will not go any further than the current server side. What made me give up scala was Scalaz, and I hope the create thousand disconnected libs and publish a post with ANN sufix approach doesn't make me give up clojure. Sorry guys, I've been posting about Clojure since 2009, and still can't see it becoming the main technology even being the CTO of the company. What is the killer app for you? Or how do you think we can make clojure supporting apps like Facebook or something big like that? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
Gary: Immutability is awesome, the ease to work with concurrency in Clojure is fantastic and the interop with Java is very good when you compare with others JVM mainstream languages. But I'm affraid that these technical features that are very important for us, devs, don't sell the language for the standard developer or for most of companies. I started to work with Clojure because I saw the beauty of the language and I feel in he wild the boost of productivity after some time of slow development, but I cannot sell the language in my company only presenting thoses facts. Andrey: I think Paulo showed us a problem (of many others) that we're refusing to see. Clojure, as a LISP, is a powerful and elegant tool. As a JVM language, is built on a powerful and solid platform, with a whole world of mature and well finished components to almost every problem. But, as I wrote, it's not enough to sell Clojure to the 'common people', and even worst to the 'common manager people'. I think the syntax of Clojure is so dead easy that I have a presentation where I can explain the whole idea in five minutes. But again the Average Joe just will mumble about 'too much parenthesis' and won't see any advantage with Clojure. To the Avg Joe, Scala is nice because 'it looks like Java'. The same Avg Joe thought the Ruby syntax was awkward, but Rails made an army of Joes (like me) to dive into Ruby and after to a better way to work with OOP, even today Rails is not the main use of Ruby. I share the same concerns of Paulo, and I don't see a mainstream future for Clojure as a main language without a really attractive tool as a showcase. Regards Plínio On Saturday, April 19, 2014 3:56:15 PM UTC-3, Gary Trakhman wrote: Clojure's killer app is immutable datastructures. Libraries can interoperate extremely easily because their interface is described with simple data structures. What's Java got for this? Spring? Design Patterns? On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 2:47 PM, James Reeves ja...@booleanknot.comjavascript: wrote: Why does Clojure need a single killer app? I use Clojure because it has a wide range of useful tools, not because of any one tool in particular. To my mind, any language that promotes itself on the basis of a single tool is indicative of specialisation, which isn't what I want in a programming language. For instance, back in 2008, Ruby on Rails was the killer app of Ruby, but the rest of the ecosystem of the library was rather bare. Nowadays Ruby has a far greater range of libraries and tools, and Rails has become just one tool out of many, rather than the sole reason people turn to the language. That said, Clojure boasts several tools that aren't found many other places, and yet are extremely useful. Recently I've been using core.async, and now I find it difficult to imagine handling asynchronous communications without it. I'd almost say that was a killer app if Clojure didn't have so many other tools that have features that are just as compelling. - James On 19 April 2014 17:15, Paulo Suzart paulo...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Hi all, (warning, this is kinda confusing email) Been following the list for some time and specially paying attention to what could be the killer clojure app as Akka is for Scala. I keep seeing small libs (I like libs) popping up like ants, but I don't believe none of them (alone at least) can make clojure explode and become main technology in a old school /ordinary company. People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... Pulsar is quite dead, core async isn't clear regarding remoting, and avout? And lamina? And aleph? Where are the tools that can make clojure to cover from Web to big data and batch? Luminous, caribou, etc, are they going to become the next grails? Huumm.. Will take lot of time. Clojure Script alone will not go any further than the current server side. What made me give up scala was Scalaz, and I hope the create thousand disconnected libs and publish a post with ANN sufix approach doesn't make me give up clojure. Sorry guys, I've been posting about Clojure since 2009, and still can't see it becoming the main technology even being the CTO of the company. What is the killer app for you? Or how do you think we can make clojure supporting apps like Facebook or something big like that? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.comjavascript: Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com javascript: For more options, visit this group at
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
2014-04-19 20:15 GMT+04:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... I see lots of companies of all sizes use Clojure successfully for data processing. The great thing about data processing is that there are many ways to do it. Some use Cascalog, some use libraries unrelated to Hadoop, others use just Clojure. So while there may or may not be a single killer app like Rails, Clojure is fantastic at this particular group of problems, as demonstrated by companies from 10 to 10s of thousands of people. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
Unfortunately I'm not a Stuart or a Emerick, or a Miller. So I can't really contribute to clojure that deep. I'm in the user /tech consumer side. That said, it is not my concern only. I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Not tools for very specific cases that may come out if they work in a very specific company in a very specific country. I don't know, I still have all my coins on that. Really hope we can have almost pure clojure clojure solutions as we have pure java solutions. Thank you all for your opinions. On 19 Apr 2014 17:40, Michael Klishin michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-19 20:15 GMT+04:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... I see lots of companies of all sizes use Clojure successfully for data processing. The great thing about data processing is that there are many ways to do it. Some use Cascalog, some use libraries unrelated to Hadoop, others use just Clojure. So while there may or may not be a single killer app like Rails, Clojure is fantastic at this particular group of problems, as demonstrated by companies from 10 to 10s of thousands of people. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Can you explain this statement? I'm not sure I understand. I haven't touched any language but Clojure for every day work in months (years?). I can write a game in Clojure, I can write swing/javafx apps if I want, I can write webapps, I can write distributed systems, I can write high performance code as well as hack it out fast code. So far in my career as a software developer, I've learned, C, C++, QBasic, VB, Delphi, Python, C#, Python, and Erlang. I left every single one of those languages because at one point or another they restricted what I could do with them. There came a day where I said wow...if I could just do X this would be so much simpler. That day hasn't come yet for me with Clojure. Even after 4 years. I'm not sure what these people want? Timothy On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunately I'm not a Stuart or a Emerick, or a Miller. So I can't really contribute to clojure that deep. I'm in the user /tech consumer side. That said, it is not my concern only. I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Not tools for very specific cases that may come out if they work in a very specific company in a very specific country. I don't know, I still have all my coins on that. Really hope we can have almost pure clojure clojure solutions as we have pure java solutions. Thank you all for your opinions. On 19 Apr 2014 17:40, Michael Klishin michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-19 20:15 GMT+04:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... I see lots of companies of all sizes use Clojure successfully for data processing. The great thing about data processing is that there are many ways to do it. Some use Cascalog, some use libraries unrelated to Hadoop, others use just Clojure. So while there may or may not be a single killer app like Rails, Clojure is fantastic at this particular group of problems, as demonstrated by companies from 10 to 10s of thousands of people. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.” (Robert Firth) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
Hi! 2014-04-19 23:00 GMT+02:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: Unfortunately I'm not a Stuart or a Emerick, or a Miller. So I can't really contribute to clojure that deep. I'm in the user /tech consumer side. That said, it is not my concern only. I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Not tools for very specific cases that may come out if they work in a very specific company in a very specific country. This contradicts with single killer app in my opinion..., because single killer app is usually for specific use cases. :S Andrey I don't know, I still have all my coins on that. Really hope we can have almost pure clojure clojure solutions as we have pure java solutions. Thank you all for your opinions. On 19 Apr 2014 17:40, Michael Klishin michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-19 20:15 GMT+04:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... I see lots of companies of all sizes use Clojure successfully for data processing. The great thing about data processing is that there are many ways to do it. Some use Cascalog, some use libraries unrelated to Hadoop, others use just Clojure. So while there may or may not be a single killer app like Rails, Clojure is fantastic at this particular group of problems, as demonstrated by companies from 10 to 10s of thousands of people. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Andrey Antukh - Андрей Антух - andrei.anto...@kaleidos.net / n...@niwi.be http://www.niwi.be http://www.niwi.be/page/about/ https://github.com/niwibe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Animation libraries for clojurescript?
Are there any javascript 2D animation libraries that are particularly well-suited for use from clojurescript? I'm especially interested in a library that uses a scenegraph to store graphical objects in hierarchical relationships to one another. Thanks, Mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
Andrey, Yes. With killer app, I really don't want to find a silver bullet. But something or some things that mostly pushes people to use the language. Thanks to your contribution On 19 Apr 2014 18:15, Andrey Antukh n...@niwi.be wrote: Hi! 2014-04-19 23:00 GMT+02:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: Unfortunately I'm not a Stuart or a Emerick, or a Miller. So I can't really contribute to clojure that deep. I'm in the user /tech consumer side. That said, it is not my concern only. I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Not tools for very specific cases that may come out if they work in a very specific company in a very specific country. This contradicts with single killer app in my opinion..., because single killer app is usually for specific use cases. :S Andrey I don't know, I still have all my coins on that. Really hope we can have almost pure clojure clojure solutions as we have pure java solutions. Thank you all for your opinions. On 19 Apr 2014 17:40, Michael Klishin michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-19 20:15 GMT+04:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... I see lots of companies of all sizes use Clojure successfully for data processing. The great thing about data processing is that there are many ways to do it. Some use Cascalog, some use libraries unrelated to Hadoop, others use just Clojure. So while there may or may not be a single killer app like Rails, Clojure is fantastic at this particular group of problems, as demonstrated by companies from 10 to 10s of thousands of people. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Andrey Antukh - Андрей Антух - andrei.anto...@kaleidos.net / n...@niwi.be http://www.niwi.be http://www.niwi.be/page/about/ https://github.com/niwibe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
But something or some things that mostly pushes people to use the language. If that's the case, then building cool stuff is probably the correct answer. And in that case, this probably applies quite well to Clojure: http://paulgraham.com/avg.html On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com wrote: Andrey, Yes. With killer app, I really don't want to find a silver bullet. But something or some things that mostly pushes people to use the language. Thanks to your contribution On 19 Apr 2014 18:15, Andrey Antukh n...@niwi.be wrote: Hi! 2014-04-19 23:00 GMT+02:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: Unfortunately I'm not a Stuart or a Emerick, or a Miller. So I can't really contribute to clojure that deep. I'm in the user /tech consumer side. That said, it is not my concern only. I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Not tools for very specific cases that may come out if they work in a very specific company in a very specific country. This contradicts with single killer app in my opinion..., because single killer app is usually for specific use cases. :S Andrey I don't know, I still have all my coins on that. Really hope we can have almost pure clojure clojure solutions as we have pure java solutions. Thank you all for your opinions. On 19 Apr 2014 17:40, Michael Klishin michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-19 20:15 GMT+04:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... I see lots of companies of all sizes use Clojure successfully for data processing. The great thing about data processing is that there are many ways to do it. Some use Cascalog, some use libraries unrelated to Hadoop, others use just Clojure. So while there may or may not be a single killer app like Rails, Clojure is fantastic at this particular group of problems, as demonstrated by companies from 10 to 10s of thousands of people. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Andrey Antukh - Андрей Антух - andrei.anto...@kaleidos.net / n...@niwi.be http://www.niwi.be http://www.niwi.be/page/about/ https://github.com/niwibe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
Yes. That's the point. You are taking about a bunch of wrappers. They are not bad, but will not make these people to move their asses from java. Even if they can introduce clojure in their tools set. Thanks On 19 Apr 2014 18:09, Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.com wrote: I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Can you explain this statement? I'm not sure I understand. I haven't touched any language but Clojure for every day work in months (years?). I can write a game in Clojure, I can write swing/javafx apps if I want, I can write webapps, I can write distributed systems, I can write high performance code as well as hack it out fast code. So far in my career as a software developer, I've learned, C, C++, QBasic, VB, Delphi, Python, C#, Python, and Erlang. I left every single one of those languages because at one point or another they restricted what I could do with them. There came a day where I said wow...if I could just do X this would be so much simpler. That day hasn't come yet for me with Clojure. Even after 4 years. I'm not sure what these people want? Timothy On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.comwrote: Unfortunately I'm not a Stuart or a Emerick, or a Miller. So I can't really contribute to clojure that deep. I'm in the user /tech consumer side. That said, it is not my concern only. I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Not tools for very specific cases that may come out if they work in a very specific company in a very specific country. I don't know, I still have all my coins on that. Really hope we can have almost pure clojure clojure solutions as we have pure java solutions. Thank you all for your opinions. On 19 Apr 2014 17:40, Michael Klishin michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-19 20:15 GMT+04:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... I see lots of companies of all sizes use Clojure successfully for data processing. The great thing about data processing is that there are many ways to do it. Some use Cascalog, some use libraries unrelated to Hadoop, others use just Clojure. So while there may or may not be a single killer app like Rails, Clojure is fantastic at this particular group of problems, as demonstrated by companies from 10 to 10s of thousands of people. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.” (Robert Firth) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
2014-04-20 1:26 GMT+04:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: You are taking about a bunch of wrappers. They are not bad, but will not make these people to move their asses from java. Ask someone who's used Cascalog if they want to go back to writing Hadoop jobs in Java. Just a wrapper can be a drastic productivity booster. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
That's the point. You are taking about a bunch of wrappers. They are not bad, but will not make these people to move their asses from java. Even if they can introduce clojure in their tools set. That's utter bogus. Who has ever said that...I won't move to Clojure because I can do it in Java. Because Clojure has a terse syntax, and sane defaults, most Clojure code will be 1/10th the size. Smaller code often means less bugs, etc. But a bunch of wrappers? Don't be ridiculous. Go look at test-check, core.async, core.logic, Datomic, ring, compojure. None of that stuff is a wrapper. But I guess what irritates me the most about comments like this is that they completely miss the goal of software engineering. The goal is to engineer a solution to a problem. If people are just taking whatever stuff Oracle/Microsoft/Google/Cognitect/Clojurewerkz/TypeSafe hands them and saying welp...I guess we'll use X because that's what the big boys use. Then they're a lost cause IMO. Software engineering and design is about thinking about the problem and coming up with simple solutions. It's design, not an assembly plant. Timothy On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. That's the point. You are taking about a bunch of wrappers. They are not bad, but will not make these people to move their asses from java. Even if they can introduce clojure in their tools set. Thanks On 19 Apr 2014 18:09, Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.com wrote: I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Can you explain this statement? I'm not sure I understand. I haven't touched any language but Clojure for every day work in months (years?). I can write a game in Clojure, I can write swing/javafx apps if I want, I can write webapps, I can write distributed systems, I can write high performance code as well as hack it out fast code. So far in my career as a software developer, I've learned, C, C++, QBasic, VB, Delphi, Python, C#, Python, and Erlang. I left every single one of those languages because at one point or another they restricted what I could do with them. There came a day where I said wow...if I could just do X this would be so much simpler. That day hasn't come yet for me with Clojure. Even after 4 years. I'm not sure what these people want? Timothy On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.comwrote: Unfortunately I'm not a Stuart or a Emerick, or a Miller. So I can't really contribute to clojure that deep. I'm in the user /tech consumer side. That said, it is not my concern only. I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Not tools for very specific cases that may come out if they work in a very specific company in a very specific country. I don't know, I still have all my coins on that. Really hope we can have almost pure clojure clojure solutions as we have pure java solutions. Thank you all for your opinions. On 19 Apr 2014 17:40, Michael Klishin michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-19 20:15 GMT+04:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... I see lots of companies of all sizes use Clojure successfully for data processing. The great thing about data processing is that there are many ways to do it. Some use Cascalog, some use libraries unrelated to Hadoop, others use just Clojure. So while there may or may not be a single killer app like Rails, Clojure is fantastic at this particular group of problems, as demonstrated by companies from 10 to 10s of thousands of people. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options,
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
Thanks Timothy. I also took some time to let it go and be able to criticize/show my concerns about something that I really like. thanks for your 50 cent. On 19 Apr 2014 18:39, Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.com wrote: That's the point. You are taking about a bunch of wrappers. They are not bad, but will not make these people to move their asses from java. Even if they can introduce clojure in their tools set. That's utter bogus. Who has ever said that...I won't move to Clojure because I can do it in Java. Because Clojure has a terse syntax, and sane defaults, most Clojure code will be 1/10th the size. Smaller code often means less bugs, etc. But a bunch of wrappers? Don't be ridiculous. Go look at test-check, core.async, core.logic, Datomic, ring, compojure. None of that stuff is a wrapper. But I guess what irritates me the most about comments like this is that they completely miss the goal of software engineering. The goal is to engineer a solution to a problem. If people are just taking whatever stuff Oracle/Microsoft/Google/Cognitect/Clojurewerkz/TypeSafe hands them and saying welp...I guess we'll use X because that's what the big boys use. Then they're a lost cause IMO. Software engineering and design is about thinking about the problem and coming up with simple solutions. It's design, not an assembly plant. Timothy On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.comwrote: Yes. That's the point. You are taking about a bunch of wrappers. They are not bad, but will not make these people to move their asses from java. Even if they can introduce clojure in their tools set. Thanks On 19 Apr 2014 18:09, Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.com wrote: I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Can you explain this statement? I'm not sure I understand. I haven't touched any language but Clojure for every day work in months (years?). I can write a game in Clojure, I can write swing/javafx apps if I want, I can write webapps, I can write distributed systems, I can write high performance code as well as hack it out fast code. So far in my career as a software developer, I've learned, C, C++, QBasic, VB, Delphi, Python, C#, Python, and Erlang. I left every single one of those languages because at one point or another they restricted what I could do with them. There came a day where I said wow...if I could just do X this would be so much simpler. That day hasn't come yet for me with Clojure. Even after 4 years. I'm not sure what these people want? Timothy On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.comwrote: Unfortunately I'm not a Stuart or a Emerick, or a Miller. So I can't really contribute to clojure that deep. I'm in the user /tech consumer side. That said, it is not my concern only. I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Not tools for very specific cases that may come out if they work in a very specific company in a very specific country. I don't know, I still have all my coins on that. Really hope we can have almost pure clojure clojure solutions as we have pure java solutions. Thank you all for your opinions. On 19 Apr 2014 17:40, Michael Klishin michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-19 20:15 GMT+04:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... I see lots of companies of all sizes use Clojure successfully for data processing. The great thing about data processing is that there are many ways to do it. Some use Cascalog, some use libraries unrelated to Hadoop, others use just Clojure. So while there may or may not be a single killer app like Rails, Clojure is fantastic at this particular group of problems, as demonstrated by companies from 10 to 10s of thousands of people. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
2014-04-19 23:39 GMT+02:00 Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.com: That's the point. You are taking about a bunch of wrappers. They are not bad, but will not make these people to move their asses from java. Even if they can introduce clojure in their tools set. That's utter bogus. Who has ever said that...I won't move to Clojure because I can do it in Java. Because Clojure has a terse syntax, and sane defaults, most Clojure code will be 1/10th the size. Smaller code often means less bugs, etc. But a bunch of wrappers? Don't be ridiculous. Go look at test-check, core.async, core.logic, Datomic, ring, compojure. None of that stuff is a wrapper. But I guess what irritates me the most about comments like this is that they completely miss the goal of software engineering. The goal is to engineer a solution to a problem. If people are just taking whatever stuff Oracle/Microsoft/Google/Cognitect/Clojurewerkz/TypeSafe hands them and saying welp...I guess we'll use X because that's what the big boys use. Then they're a lost cause IMO. Software engineering and design is about thinking about the problem and coming up with simple solutions. It's design, not an assembly plant. +1 it is a reality, and I find that reality many times :( I completely agree with you! Timothy On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.comwrote: Yes. That's the point. You are taking about a bunch of wrappers. They are not bad, but will not make these people to move their asses from java. Even if they can introduce clojure in their tools set. Thanks On 19 Apr 2014 18:09, Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.com wrote: I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Can you explain this statement? I'm not sure I understand. I haven't touched any language but Clojure for every day work in months (years?). I can write a game in Clojure, I can write swing/javafx apps if I want, I can write webapps, I can write distributed systems, I can write high performance code as well as hack it out fast code. So far in my career as a software developer, I've learned, C, C++, QBasic, VB, Delphi, Python, C#, Python, and Erlang. I left every single one of those languages because at one point or another they restricted what I could do with them. There came a day where I said wow...if I could just do X this would be so much simpler. That day hasn't come yet for me with Clojure. Even after 4 years. I'm not sure what these people want? Timothy On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.comwrote: Unfortunately I'm not a Stuart or a Emerick, or a Miller. So I can't really contribute to clojure that deep. I'm in the user /tech consumer side. That said, it is not my concern only. I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits every day. Not tools for very specific cases that may come out if they work in a very specific company in a very specific country. I don't know, I still have all my coins on that. Really hope we can have almost pure clojure clojure solutions as we have pure java solutions. Thank you all for your opinions. On 19 Apr 2014 17:40, Michael Klishin michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-19 20:15 GMT+04:00 Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com: People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... I see lots of companies of all sizes use Clojure successfully for data processing. The great thing about data processing is that there are many ways to do it. Some use Cascalog, some use libraries unrelated to Hadoop, others use just Clojure. So while there may or may not be a single killer app like Rails, Clojure is fantastic at this particular group of problems, as demonstrated by companies from 10 to 10s of thousands of people. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
What's killer about clojure is not an app, but an idea. Simplicity. Everything else stems from that idea. Immutability, decomplecting, data first, consistent abstractions - all the things we like to talk about in clojure are really about simplicity. It's about getting all the crap out of your way so you can focus on solving the problem YOU want to solve, not the problems foisted upon you by your language or framework or methodology/dogma. I've heard all these promises before over my 20+ years in the industry, and had just about written it all off as a pipe dream. I'm sure you have too - and we all known that if something seems too good to be true... But not this time. Clojure is true. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Thoughts on bags?
While searching for MultiSet or Bag resources, I found this implementation by Achim Passen at: A simple multiset/bag implementation for Clojure. However, I found I could meet my needs by adding functions to treat vectors, or other collection types, as unordered. These can then be used directly, or in the definition of your own specialized types. For the hash, from Clojure Data Structures: (defn hash-unordered [collection] (- (reduce unchecked-add-int 0 (map hash collection)) (mix-collection-hash (count collection For equality: (defn equals-unordered [coll-a coll-b] Treat collections as unordered for 1st level of comparison. (or (identical? coll-a coll-b) (and (empty? coll-a) (empty? coll-b)) (and (= (hash-unordered coll-a) (hash-unordered coll-b)) (let [set-a (set coll-a) set-b (set coll-b)] (and (= set-a set-b) (loop [[item items] (seq set-a)] (let [finder #(= item %) found-a (filter finder coll-a) found-b (filter finder coll-b)] (if (not= (count found-a) (count found-b)) false (if (empty? items) true (recur items)) Neither Achim's deftype, nor the above, is likely as efficient as implementation as a core collection MultiSet. The attached file has a trivial implementation of a deftype showing the functions in use. It defines a shopping cart where the items are kept on a vector, which is treated as an unordered collection. A transcript of playing with the shopping cart follows: user= (load-file shopping_cart.clj) #'example.multi-set/make-shopping-cart user= (use 'example.multi-set) nil user= (def cart0 (make-shopping-cart 'carrots 'beans 'eggs)) #'user/cart0 user= cart0 (make-shopping-cart carrots beans eggs) user= (def cart1 (make-shopping-cart 'eggs 'carrots 'beans)) #'user/cart1 user= cart1 (make-shopping-cart eggs carrots beans) user= (def cart2 (make-shopping-cart 'ham 'eggs 'carrots 'beans)) #'user/cart2 user= cart2 (make-shopping-cart ham eggs carrots beans) user= (= cart0 cart1) true user= (= cart1 cart2) false Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. shopping_cart.clj Description: Binary data
Re: Thoughts on bags?
Added link missing in previous post. A simple multiset/bag implementation for Clojurehttps://github.com/achim/multiset -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: What's clojure killer app? I don't see any.
On Apr 19, 2014, at 9:15 AM, Paulo Suzart paulosuz...@gmail.com wrote: Been following the list for some time and specially paying attention to what could be the killer clojure app as Akka is for Scala. I don't think Akka is a killer app for Scala. Scala is a multi-paradigm general purpose language that is a better Java as well as a functional programming language. I think the whole killer app for a language is a ridiculous idea to be honest. I keep seeing small libs (I like libs) popping up like ants, but I don't believe none of them (alone at least) can make clojure explode and become main technology in a old school /ordinary company. The more important question is Does Clojure need to become 'mainstream'? for some definition of 'mainstream'. I think the answer is no. We're past the time of one language to rule them all. For years it was C/C++, then it slowly shifted to Java, and then C# became a dominant language for Windows while Java dominated everywhere else. But that homogeneity has pros and cons. Lately we've seen an explosion of programming languages, most of which are general purpose, and many of which are based on the JVM. Now we have choice: we can use whatever language we find most suitable for the task at hand - or even whatever language we just plain ol' prefer! A company can use multiple languages and know they'll all play nicely together. Each team can choose their favorite JVM language and it won't cause problems with other teams. This is a HUGE improvement on the only Java world in my opinion. What made me give up scala was Scalaz Well, that I can understand :) Sorry guys, I've been posting about Clojure since 2009, and still can't see it becoming the main technology even being the CTO of the company. A lot of companies are using Clojure for everyday things. A lot of companies are quite happily using Clojure as their main technology. But if the CTO is too conservative to pick Clojure, that's their choice. It's worth remembering that Clojure endeavors to be a general-purpose language suitable in those areas where Java is suitable. -- http://clojure.org/rationale At World Singles, we use Clojure for accessing databases (MySQL and MongoDB), interacting with third party web services (JSON, XML, REST, even SOAP - ugh, but it's so much nicer than doing it in Java!), analyzing data, transforming data, managing internationalization, logging, environment control... pretty much everything. We use it for all our long-running background processes - one of which generates and sends about 1.5M HTML emails a day and runs millions of JSON queries against a custom search engine. We have a real-time chat server written in Clojure (based on a Java Socket.IO implementation). We're just starting down the path of using ClojureScript for an internal-facing analysis app - using Om and D3 for real-time data display, with core.async over web sockets (via Sente). All new server-side development is in Clojure for us. Two reasons: * The Clojure code is much simpler, shorter and easier to maintain. * The team *love* writing Clojure! They're having more fun in their jobs than ever. The immutability, easy concurrency, DSLs and so on - those are all icing on the cake. Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ Perfection is the enemy of the good. -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
When is The Conj this year? (eom)
Best, Marcus Marcus Blankenship \\\ Problem Solver, Linear Thinker \\\ 541.805.2736 \ @justzeros \ skype:marcuscreo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: How to import under an alias?
Thanks Gary! My intention is to have an alias, so making a new function, seems to be the best option: (defn dialog Shows a dialog and asks for confirmation. [message] (javax.swing.JOptionPane/showMessageDialog nil message)) (dialog Hello Clojure!) Is there any difference or drawback in doing it like that instead of first importing it? (import '[javax.swing JOptionPane]) (defn dialog-2 Shows a dialog and asks for confirmation. [message] JOptionPane/showMessageDialog nil message) (dialog-2 Hello Clojure!) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: How to import under an alias?
There's no drawback. On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 8:49 PM, Ismael VC ismael.vc1...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Gary! My intention is to have an alias, so making a new function, seems to be the best option: (defn dialog Shows a dialog and asks for confirmation. [message] (javax.swing.JOptionPane/showMessageDialog nil message)) (dialog Hello Clojure!) Is there any difference or drawback in doing it like that instead of first importing it? (import '[javax.swing JOptionPane]) (defn dialog-2 Shows a dialog and asks for confirmation. [message] JOptionPane/showMessageDialog nil message) (dialog-2 Hello Clojure!) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
