Re: Stus-List Max-Prop settings

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Sounds like you nailed it. I wouldn't change anything.

Joel

On Friday, August 15, 2014, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> The max RPM is 3200 and we could get to that value no problem, didn’t want
> to hold it there for too long, just a few minutes. We did a 20 min test at
> 3000 RPM where we held 6.8 knots. No problems were found and although very
> loud she ran well.  There was no current, wind or waves to speak of.
> Cheers,
> Bill
>
> On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Josh Muckley  > wrote:
>
> Be careful over pitching it cause continuously running the engine below
> 80% of full load can cause other problems such as coking up the exhaust
> elbow and glazing the cylinders.  Lots of people like the idea of over
> pitching the prop to run a little faster at a lower rpm.  I say, the
> difference in speed is minimal and as for fuel efficiency, with these
> little engines your probably not gonna use a full tank in a season anyway.
> So that causes problems too.
>
> For me I want to be able to reach instantanious max rpm.  I won't run
> there but I could get there if I had to.
>
> Also as the bottom gets dirty you'll slow down, rpms will need to go up to
> maintain speed...but you probably won't be able to speed up once the bottom
> gets dirty enough.  If you overpitch the prop then at this point you will
> be overloaded, below max rpm, and start blowing black smoke.
>
> I'm kinda with Joel.  At most you might want to go the other way and
> underpitch it a step.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Aug 15, 2014 12:30 PM, "Bill Hoyne via CnC-List"  > wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>> Here are the results of my Max Prop issues.
>>
>> I have a C&C 35 Mk II with a  Volvo Penta 2003 28hp with a 2.4:1
>> reduction MS2B transmission max RPM is 3200. The prop is a left rotation.
>> The Max Prop is 14” and set to 24 deg (X=C, Y=E). This gives 11.6” pitch.
>> The original settings were way off with wrong settings for any degree and
>> thus the issues.
>> Now I am getting 3000rpm = 6.8-6.9 knots, 2800 rpm = 6.4 knots, 2600rpm =
>> 6.0 knots.
>>
>> How are does this compare with what you guys are seeing? Do you guys
>> thing I can go up to 26 deg and get better speed at some what lower RPM?
>> 3000 rpm is rather loud ( especially if you are motoring for several
>> hours), 26-2700 is much easier on the ears but still loud. (Any ideas on
>> what is best to sound proof the engine compartment?)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bill
>>
>> PS I just did my first cruise. An 11 day trip in the Gulf Islands. Lots
>> of fun!! No dents or dings and the boat still floats!!
>>
>> *Bill Hoyne*
>> Mithrandir
>> ’74 C&C35 MkII
>> in Victoria,BC
>>
>>
>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:23 AM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>> I think that will be the plan of attack.
>>
>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>> I agree with Josh on contacting Hutch at PYI to get the best info. Your
>> description of being unable to reach full RPM when in gear does sound like
>> a reduction in pitch is called for.
>>
>> I have changed the pitch on Calypso’s MAX Prop several times including
>> the original effort at installation.  For a few years I intentionally ran
>> 10% over pitch to reduce cruise speed RPM.  Before we went around Vancouver
>> Island (2011) I reduced pitch by one increment to be sure we could achieve
>> full RPM (horsepower) when motoring into bigger waves and higher winds.
>> The reduction to cruise speed (at a smooth engine RPM) was about .2 knot
>> with no measurable change in fuel consumption.
>>
>> The MAX prop owner’s manual has the chart that describes the X Y
>> relationship to pitch.  I have heard tales of divers willing and able to
>> change the pitch on a classic MAX prop underwater.  I would not attempt it
>> myself and in the past set up a deal with a yard to haul and hold in the
>> slings for the change then re-launch.  It may take several haul/launch
>> cycles if you want to fully optimize the pitch.
>>
>> Martin
>> Calypso
>> 1971 C&C 43
>> Seattle
>>
>> 
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
>> ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Josh Muckley via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:22 PM
>> *To:* C&C List; Bill Hoyne
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Prop Grease (Now Max-Prop settings)
>>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> Contact Fred "Hutch" Hutchinson at PYI.  He'll be able to tell you
>> immediately where to start.
>>
>> hu...@pyiinc.com 
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>> On Jul 28, 2014 12:16 AM, "Bill Hoyne via CnC-List" <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I have a Max Prop of unknown diameter (forgot to measure when I had the
>> boat out of the water).  I also have a Volvo Penta 2003 and when I run the
>> engine in idle I get 3000+ RPM,s but when I run it in gear I only get
>> 1900-2000 RPM’s. I suspect the pitch is a little high. ( A dripless seal,
>> new shaft and cutles

Re: Stus-List Nice sail but dangerous waters in harbor

[Jack Brennan via CnC-List]

Gators are a lot more docile than you think.

When my younger daughter was about 11, she did a school report on the 
Everglades. I took her on an 18-mile bike trip through Shark Valley in 
Everglades National Park.

Well, the cover of the report was a photo of her standing there in her bike 
helmet next to two medium-sized gators sunning on a canal bank.

Humans are too salty to taste good, so gators generally leave you alone. They 
get dangerous when you’re in murky water. They tend to test whether something 
is edible by taking a bite; If that’s your arm in the murky water, well, you’re 
out of luck.

When you approach them on land, they will ignore you until you get too close. 
then they will let out a big HOOF sound that will scare the pants off you, but 
they won’t attack. I’ve canoed right up next to alligators in the Everglades 
without a problem.

Once in the 1970s, a buddy of mine and I went canoeing in Everglades National 
Park with a carry-out bucket of Kentucky Fried Kitchen in addition to the 
obligatory ration of beer. Well, we had a 10-foot gator trailing us who was 
determined to get a bite of the Colonel’s best.

We finally had to beach the canoe on some dry land and eat our food. We left 
the bones to distract the alligator and went on our way without a problem.

Jack Brennan
Former C&C 25
Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30
Tierra Verde, Fl.



From: Brent Driedger via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 8:12 PM
To: schiller ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Nice sail but dangerous waters in harbor

The best I can do is while nearly asleep in the quarterberth at my slip, I 
heard the unmistakable sound of a carp slamming full speed into the rudder. The 
next morning it lay dead in the water near my boat. Big too.
No alligators in Lake Winnipeg, just sea monsters.

Brent
27-5
Lake Winnipeg


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2014, at 5:26 PM, schiller via CnC-List  
wrote:


  So, what exactly is a "moderately sized alligator"?  To me, anything bigger 
than a pet store size is bigger than a "moderately sized alligator".  We don't 
have much in Lake Michigan that wants to eat us!

  Neil Schiller
  1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
  (C&C 35, Mark I)
  "Corsair"
  538243


  On 8/15/2014 8:42 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:

Finished a couple boat jobs yesterday and decided to go out on the lake for 
a late afternoon sail.  Not much breeze but a pleasant sail nonetheless.


After the pleasant uneventful sail, I entered Mandeville Harbor afterwards 
(30 20' 50", 90 03' 46").  There was a guy on the seawall fighting a fish.  His 
buddy waved at me to move to the far side of the entrance to allow him to play 
the fish.  As I went by the fish broke the surface.  Wow!  Looked like a 3-4 
footer, species unknown.  Then his line broke.  Too bad.


I continued up the harbor into the narrow bayou and made the sharp right 
hand turnHoly Crap!  Here comes one of my marina friends in his Leopard 38 
catamaran with 20+ foot beam.  I eased as far to the edge of the channel 
watching that my shrouds didn't hit overhanging branches from a cypress tree.  
We passed with 3 feet between us.


A couple hundred yards later I had to dodge a moderately sized alligator 
swimming up the bayou.


Glad to get Touche' back into the slip.


Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA




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Re: Stus-List Prop size/pitch for a Yanmar 1GM10 in a 27 MkII

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

It is hard to say but a dirty bottom CAN be that big of an effect.

Josh
On Aug 15, 2014 6:20 PM, "Paul Baker via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> Any 27MkII folks out there with a Yanmar 1GM10 diesel?  What prop do you
> have on there, and is it able to achieve max rpm under load?  I can't
> recall what I have (3 blade but don't know size/pitch) but at 2700rpm I am
> billowing black smoke and still only doing 5kts.  Dirty bottom is going to
> contribute to this, plus some junk on the prop itself, but I wouldn't have
> thought it would be *that* big an effect.
> Cheers,
> Paul
>
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Re: Stus-List Nice sail but dangerous waters in harbor

[Brent Driedger via CnC-List]

The best I can do is while nearly asleep in the quarterberth at my slip, I 
heard the unmistakable sound of a carp slamming full speed into the rudder. The 
next morning it lay dead in the water near my boat. Big too. 
No alligators in Lake Winnipeg, just sea monsters. 

Brent
27-5
Lake Winnipeg


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 15, 2014, at 5:26 PM, schiller via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> So, what exactly is a "moderately sized alligator"?  To me, anything bigger 
> than a pet store size is bigger than a "moderately sized alligator".  We 
> don't have much in Lake Michigan that wants to eat us!
> 
> Neil Schiller
> 1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
> (C&C 35, Mark I)
> "Corsair"
> 538243
> 
>> On 8/15/2014 8:42 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
>> Finished a couple boat jobs yesterday and decided to go out on the lake for 
>> a late afternoon sail.  Not much breeze but a pleasant sail nonetheless.
>> 
>> After the pleasant uneventful sail, I entered Mandeville Harbor afterwards 
>> (30 20' 50", 90 03' 46").  There was a guy on the seawall fighting a fish.  
>> His buddy waved at me to move to the far side of the entrance to allow him 
>> to play the fish.  As I went by the fish broke the surface.  Wow!  Looked 
>> like a 3-4 footer, species unknown.  Then his line broke.  Too bad.
>> 
>> I continued up the harbor into the narrow bayou and made the sharp right 
>> hand turnHoly Crap!  Here comes one of my marina friends in his Leopard 
>> 38 catamaran with 20+ foot beam.  I eased as far to the edge of the channel 
>> watching that my shrouds didn't hit overhanging branches from a cypress 
>> tree.  We passed with 3 feet between us.
>> 
>> A couple hundred yards later I had to dodge a moderately sized alligator 
>> swimming up the bayou.  
>> 
>> Glad to get Touche' back into the slip.
>> 
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>> 
>> 
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Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I just worked on a Yanmar (model unknown) starter. There was a relay or 
something on the side of the block under the starter.  The wire (white) from 
the start side of the key switch went to the relay. Another wire (orange) went 
from the relay to the solenoid. 

Dennis C.
Touché 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 15, 2014, at 3:44 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> The fuse to which we are all refering is upstream of the key switch.  If you 
> hear a buzzer/low oil pressure alarm then the fuse is fine.  I would check 
> voltage going to the panel and voltage back to the start solenoid.  As Dwight 
> suggested the button could be bad so a resistance check across the button 
> terminals with the key off and the button depressed will determine that.  
> After verifying the voltage and eliminating the button I would look to the 
> solenoid.  You may have 2, check them both.  It could be burnt out or just 
> stuck...low voltage or high resistance to the solenoid could cause the 
> solenoid to appear bad.
> 
> I would take a short piece of wire and jumper from the positive supply 
> terminal to the start terminal on each of the two solenoids.  That should 
> eliminate the solenoids...
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
>> On Aug 15, 2014 4:18 PM, "dwight veinot via CnC-List" 
>>  wrote:
>> Check the starter button.  Also inline fuses.  bad contacts,not just blow 
>> fuses can cause this.
>> 
>>> On Friday, August 15, 2014, Brad Crawford via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> I switch the key on, the alarm buzzer buzzes as normal, I depress the start 
>>> button, and the only thing I see or hear, is the lights light up on the 
>>> control panel.  No clicking sounds, no starter sounds, nothing.  I will 
>>> check out and go through the start circuit wiring.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Brad
>>> 
>>> C&C 36
>>> 
>>> Elliott Bay
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: Martin DeYoung [mailto:mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com] 
>>> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 10:23 AM
>>> To: Raymond Macklin; Brad Crawford
>>> Cc: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Subject: RE: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> > Could it be heat related.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> As the temp rises so does the DC resistance.  If the start / run wiring has 
>>> loose or corroded connections or undersized / corroded wires they may pass 
>>> enough voltage and current to work at lower temperatures but not when hot.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> A starter solenoid may suffer from voltage drop as the wiring heats up 
>>> pushing it from just barely working to not working.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Brad, when you say nothing happened, does that mean the starter did not 
>>> crank?  If so, I would follow the wiring from the key back to the starter 
>>> and tighten the connections if loose, repair corrosion if found before 
>>> replacing the starter and solenoid.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Martin
>>> 
>>> Calypso
>>> 
>>> 1971 C&C 43
>>> 
>>> Seattle
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: Raymond Macklin [mailto:ray.mack...@gmail.com] 
>>> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 3:55 AM
>>> To: Brad Crawford
>>> Cc: Martin DeYoung; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Everyone:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the input.  I replaced the 30 amp fuse like i was instructed and 
>>> it started up right away.  Brad brings up a good point.  Could it be heat 
>>> related.  I guess I should have tried starting it before replacing the 
>>> fuse, but i immediately changed the fuse and it worked.  I looked at the 
>>> fuse and it still looked good.  However, it was an OLD fuse.  Only time 
>>> will tell if it is heat related.
>>> 
>>> Ray
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Brad Crawford  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I had a similar issue this last weekend. We  motored from Elliott Bay to 
>>> Port Ludlow, set the hook, shut the engine off, about a half hour later I 
>>> decided to relocate the anchor.  I depressed the starter switch and nothing 
>>> happened, tried a couple of times, no start.  So we stayed put figuring I’d 
>>> tackle the problem in the morning.  The next morning she started right up.  
>>> On the way back a few days later, we motored from Kingston back to Elliott 
>>> Bay Marina, we stopped at the fuel dock to empty the waste tank, when 
>>> finish I again depressed the start button to move on to our slip.  Same 
>>> thing, no start, I checked around looking for something obvious that may 
>>> have caused the problem, found nothing, so we waited about 45 – 60 minutes. 
>>>  After a cool down time I tried again depressing the start switch and she 
>>> started right up. I think my issue may be heat related but not sure?  Could 
>>> it be the switch, fuse or fuse holder, solenoid, or starter?  Any ideas? 
>>> Has anyone else experienced this?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Brad
>>> 
>>> 81 C&C 36
>>> 
>>> Elliott Bay
>>> 
>> 

Re: Stus-List Nice sail but dangerous waters in harbor

[schiller via CnC-List]

So, what exactly is a "moderately sized alligator"? To me, anything 
bigger than a pet store size is bigger than a "moderately sized 
alligator".  We don't have much in Lake Michigan that wants to eat us!


Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"
538243

On 8/15/2014 8:42 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
Finished a couple boat jobs yesterday and decided to go out on the 
lake for a late afternoon sail.  Not much breeze but a pleasant sail 
nonetheless.


After the pleasant uneventful sail, I entered Mandeville Harbor 
afterwards (30 20' 50", 90 03' 46").  There was a guy on the seawall 
fighting a fish.  His buddy waved at me to move to the far side of the 
entrance to allow him to play the fish.  As I went by the fish broke 
the surface.  Wow!  Looked like a 3-4 footer, species unknown.  Then 
his line broke.  Too bad.


I continued up the harbor into the narrow bayou and made the sharp 
right hand turnHoly Crap!  Here comes one of my marina friends in 
his Leopard 38 catamaran with 20+ foot beam.  I eased as far to the 
edge of the channel watching that my shrouds didn't hit overhanging 
branches from a cypress tree.  We passed with 3 feet between us.


A couple hundred yards later I had to dodge a moderately sized 
alligator swimming up the bayou.


Glad to get Touche' back into the slip.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


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Stus-List Prop size/pitch for a Yanmar 1GM10 in a 27 MkII

[Paul Baker via CnC-List]

Hi Folks,
Any 27MkII folks out there with a Yanmar 1GM10 diesel?  What prop do you have 
on there, and is it able to achieve max rpm under load?  I can't recall what I 
have (3 blade but don't know size/pitch) but at 2700rpm I am billowing black 
smoke and still only doing 5kts.  Dirty bottom is going to contribute to this, 
plus some junk on the prop itself, but I wouldn't have thought it would be 
*that* big an effect.
Cheers,
Paul

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Re: Stus-List Max-Prop settings

[Bill Hoyne via CnC-List]

Hi 

The max RPM is 3200 and we could get to that value no problem, didn’t want to 
hold it there for too long, just a few minutes. We did a 20 min test at 3000 
RPM where we held 6.8 knots. No problems were found and although very loud she 
ran well.  There was no current, wind or waves to speak of. 
Cheers,
Bill

On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Josh Muckley  wrote:

> Be careful over pitching it cause continuously running the engine below 80% 
> of full load can cause other problems such as coking up the exhaust elbow and 
> glazing the cylinders.  Lots of people like the idea of over pitching the 
> prop to run a little faster at a lower rpm.  I say, the difference in speed 
> is minimal and as for fuel efficiency, with these little engines your 
> probably not gonna use a full tank in a season anyway.  So that causes 
> problems too.
> 
> For me I want to be able to reach instantanious max rpm.  I won't run there 
> but I could get there if I had to.
> 
> Also as the bottom gets dirty you'll slow down, rpms will need to go up to 
> maintain speed...but you probably won't be able to speed up once the bottom 
> gets dirty enough.  If you overpitch the prop then at this point you will be 
> overloaded, below max rpm, and start blowing black smoke.
> 
> I'm kinda with Joel.  At most you might want to go the other way and 
> underpitch it a step.
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> On Aug 15, 2014 12:30 PM, "Bill Hoyne via CnC-List"  
> wrote:
> Hi All,
> Here are the results of my Max Prop issues.
> 
> I have a C&C 35 Mk II with a  Volvo Penta 2003 28hp with a 2.4:1 reduction 
> MS2B transmission max RPM is 3200. The prop is a left rotation. The Max Prop 
> is 14” and set to 24 deg (X=C, Y=E). This gives 11.6” pitch. The original 
> settings were way off with wrong settings for any degree and thus the issues. 
> Now I am getting 3000rpm = 6.8-6.9 knots, 2800 rpm = 6.4 knots, 2600rpm = 6.0 
> knots. 
> 
> How are does this compare with what you guys are seeing? Do you guys thing I 
> can go up to 26 deg and get better speed at some what lower RPM? 3000 rpm is 
> rather loud ( especially if you are motoring for several hours), 26-2700 is 
> much easier on the ears but still loud. (Any ideas on what is best to sound 
> proof the engine compartment?)
> 
> Cheers,
> Bill
> 
> PS I just did my first cruise. An 11 day trip in the Gulf Islands. Lots of 
> fun!! No dents or dings and the boat still floats!!
> 
> Bill Hoyne
> Mithrandir
> ’74 C&C35 MkII
> in Victoria,BC
> 
> 
> On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:23 AM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>> I think that will be the plan of attack. 
>> 
>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> I agree with Josh on contacting Hutch at PYI to get the best info. Your 
>>> description of being unable to reach full RPM when in gear does sound like 
>>> a reduction in pitch is called for.
>>>  
>>> I have changed the pitch on Calypso’s MAX Prop several times including the 
>>> original effort at installation.  For a few years I intentionally ran 10% 
>>> over pitch to reduce cruise speed RPM.  Before we went around Vancouver 
>>> Island (2011) I reduced pitch by one increment to be sure we could achieve 
>>> full RPM (horsepower) when motoring into bigger waves and higher winds.  
>>> The reduction to cruise speed (at a smooth engine RPM) was about .2 knot 
>>> with no measurable change in fuel consumption.
>>>  
>>> The MAX prop owner’s manual has the chart that describes the X Y 
>>> relationship to pitch.  I have heard tales of divers willing and able to 
>>> change the pitch on a classic MAX prop underwater.  I would not attempt it 
>>> myself and in the past set up a deal with a yard to haul and hold in the 
>>> slings for the change then re-launch.  It may take several haul/launch 
>>> cycles if you want to fully optimize the pitch.
>>>  
>>> Martin
>>> Calypso
>>> 1971 C&C 43
>>> Seattle
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh 
>>> Muckley via CnC-List
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:22 PM
>>> To: C&C List; Bill Hoyne
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Prop Grease (Now Max-Prop settings)
>>>  
>>> Bill,
>>> 
>>> Contact Fred "Hutch" Hutchinson at PYI.  He'll be able to tell you 
>>> immediately where to start.
>>> 
>>> hu...@pyiinc.com
>>> 
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C&C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD
>>> 
>>> On Jul 28, 2014 12:16 AM, "Bill Hoyne via CnC-List"  
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>> I have a Max Prop of unknown diameter (forgot to measure when I had the 
>>> boat out of the water).  I also have a Volvo Penta 2003 and when I run the 
>>> engine in idle I get 3000+ RPM,s but when I run it in gear I only get 
>>> 1900-2000 RPM’s. I suspect the pitch is a little high. ( A dripless seal, 
>>> new shaft and cutless bering were installed last year and in the process 
>>> the max-prop was taken off and may not have been installed with the 
>>> original spec

Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

The fuse to which we are all refering is upstream of the key switch.  If
you hear a buzzer/low oil pressure alarm then the fuse is fine.  I would
check voltage going to the panel and voltage back to the start solenoid.
As Dwight suggested the button could be bad so a resistance check across
the button terminals with the key off and the button depressed will
determine that.  After verifying the voltage and eliminating the button I
would look to the solenoid.  You may have 2, check them both.  It could be
burnt out or just stuck...low voltage or high resistance to the solenoid
could cause the solenoid to appear bad.

I would take a short piece of wire and jumper from the positive supply
terminal to the start terminal on each of the two solenoids.  That should
eliminate the solenoids...

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 15, 2014 4:18 PM, "dwight veinot via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Check the starter button.  Also inline fuses.  bad contacts,not just blow
> fuses can cause this.
>
> On Friday, August 15, 2014, Brad Crawford via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>>  I switch the key on, the alarm buzzer buzzes as normal, I depress the
>> start button, and the only thing I see or hear, is the lights light up on
>> the control panel.  No clicking sounds, no starter sounds, nothing.  I will
>> check out and go through the start circuit wiring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> C&C 36
>>
>> Elliott Bay
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Martin DeYoung [mailto:mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com]
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 15, 2014 10:23 AM
>> *To:* Raymond Macklin; Brad Crawford
>> *Cc:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Subject:* RE: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse
>> Issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Could it be heat related.
>>
>>
>>
>> As the temp rises so does the DC resistance.  If the start / run wiring
>> has loose or corroded connections or undersized / corroded wires they may
>> pass enough voltage and current to work at lower temperatures but not when
>> hot.
>>
>>
>>
>> A starter solenoid may suffer from voltage drop as the wiring heats up
>> pushing it from just barely working to not working.
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad, when you say nothing happened, does that mean the starter did not
>> crank?  If so, I would follow the wiring from the key back to the starter
>> and tighten the connections if loose, repair corrosion if found before
>> replacing the starter and solenoid.
>>
>>
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> Calypso
>>
>> 1971 C&C 43
>>
>> Seattle
>>
>>
>> [image: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Raymond Macklin [mailto:ray.mack...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 15, 2014 3:55 AM
>> *To:* Brad Crawford
>> *Cc:* Martin DeYoung; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse
>> Issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> Everyone:
>>
>> Thanks for the input.  I replaced the 30 amp fuse like i was instructed
>> and it started up right away.  Brad brings up a good point.  Could it be
>> heat related.  I guess I should have tried starting it before replacing the
>> fuse, but i immediately changed the fuse and it worked.  I looked at the
>> fuse and it still looked good.  However, it was an OLD fuse.  Only time
>> will tell if it is heat related.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Brad Crawford 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I had a similar issue this last weekend. We  motored from Elliott Bay to
>> Port Ludlow, set the hook, shut the engine off, about a half hour later I
>> decided to relocate the anchor.  I depressed the starter switch and nothing
>> happened, tried a couple of times, no start.  So we stayed put figuring I'd
>> tackle the problem in the morning.  The next morning she started right up.
>> On the way back a few days later, we motored from Kingston back to Elliott
>> Bay Marina, we stopped at the fuel dock to empty the waste tank, when
>> finish I again depressed the start button to move on to our slip.  Same
>> thing, no start, I checked around looking for something obvious that may
>> have caused the problem, found nothing, so we waited about 45 - 60
>> minutes.  After a cool down time I tried again depressing the start switch
>> and she started right up. I think my issue may be heat related but not
>> sure?  Could it be the switch, fuse or fuse holder, solenoid, or starter?
>> Any ideas? Has anyone else experienced this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> 81 C&C 36
>>
>> Elliott Bay
>>
>
>
> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>
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Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Check the starter button.  Also inline fuses.  bad contacts,not just blow
fuses can cause this.

On Friday, August 15, 2014, Brad Crawford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>  I switch the key on, the alarm buzzer buzzes as normal, I depress the
> start button, and the only thing I see or hear, is the lights light up on
> the control panel.  No clicking sounds, no starter sounds, nothing.  I will
> check out and go through the start circuit wiring.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Brad
>
> C&C 36
>
> Elliott Bay
>
>
>
> *From:* Martin DeYoung [mailto:mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com
> ]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 15, 2014 10:23 AM
> *To:* Raymond Macklin; Brad Crawford
> *Cc:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> *Subject:* RE: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse
> Issue.
>
>
>
> > Could it be heat related.
>
>
>
> As the temp rises so does the DC resistance.  If the start / run wiring
> has loose or corroded connections or undersized / corroded wires they may
> pass enough voltage and current to work at lower temperatures but not when
> hot.
>
>
>
> A starter solenoid may suffer from voltage drop as the wiring heats up
> pushing it from just barely working to not working.
>
>
>
> Brad, when you say nothing happened, does that mean the starter did not
> crank?  If so, I would follow the wiring from the key back to the starter
> and tighten the connections if loose, repair corrosion if found before
> replacing the starter and solenoid.
>
>
>
> Martin
>
> Calypso
>
> 1971 C&C 43
>
> Seattle
>
>
> [image: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]
>
>
>
> *From:* Raymond Macklin [mailto:ray.mack...@gmail.com
> ]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 15, 2014 3:55 AM
> *To:* Brad Crawford
> *Cc:* Martin DeYoung; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse
> Issue.
>
>
>
> Everyone:
>
> Thanks for the input.  I replaced the 30 amp fuse like i was instructed
> and it started up right away.  Brad brings up a good point.  Could it be
> heat related.  I guess I should have tried starting it before replacing the
> fuse, but i immediately changed the fuse and it worked.  I looked at the
> fuse and it still looked good.  However, it was an OLD fuse.  Only time
> will tell if it is heat related.
>
> Ray
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Brad Crawford  > wrote:
>
> I had a similar issue this last weekend. We  motored from Elliott Bay to
> Port Ludlow, set the hook, shut the engine off, about a half hour later I
> decided to relocate the anchor.  I depressed the starter switch and nothing
> happened, tried a couple of times, no start.  So we stayed put figuring I’d
> tackle the problem in the morning.  The next morning she started right up.
> On the way back a few days later, we motored from Kingston back to Elliott
> Bay Marina, we stopped at the fuel dock to empty the waste tank, when
> finish I again depressed the start button to move on to our slip.  Same
> thing, no start, I checked around looking for something obvious that may
> have caused the problem, found nothing, so we waited about 45 – 60
> minutes.  After a cool down time I tried again depressing the start switch
> and she started right up. I think my issue may be heat related but not
> sure?  Could it be the switch, fuse or fuse holder, solenoid, or starter?
> Any ideas? Has anyone else experienced this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad
>
> 81 C&C 36
>
> Elliott Bay
>


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Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.

[Brad Crawford via CnC-List]

I switch the key on, the alarm buzzer buzzes as normal, I depress the start 
button, and the only thing I see or hear, is the lights light up on the control 
panel.  No clicking sounds, no starter sounds, nothing.  I will check out and 
go through the start circuit wiring.

 

Thanks,

 

Brad

C&C 36

Elliott Bay 

 

From: Martin DeYoung [mailto:mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 10:23 AM
To: Raymond Macklin; Brad Crawford
Cc: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: RE: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.

 

> Could it be heat related.

 

As the temp rises so does the DC resistance.  If the start / run wiring has 
loose or corroded connections or undersized / corroded wires they may pass 
enough voltage and current to work at lower temperatures but not when hot.

 

A starter solenoid may suffer from voltage drop as the wiring heats up pushing 
it from just barely working to not working.

 

Brad, when you say nothing happened, does that mean the starter did not crank?  
If so, I would follow the wiring from the key back to the starter and tighten 
the connections if loose, repair corrosion if found before replacing the 
starter and solenoid.

 

Martin

Calypso

1971 C&C 43

Seattle


Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F

 

From: Raymond Macklin [mailto:ray.mack...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 3:55 AM
To: Brad Crawford
Cc: Martin DeYoung; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.

 

Everyone:

Thanks for the input.  I replaced the 30 amp fuse like i was instructed and it 
started up right away.  Brad brings up a good point.  Could it be heat related. 
 I guess I should have tried starting it before replacing the fuse, but i 
immediately changed the fuse and it worked.  I looked at the fuse and it still 
looked good.  However, it was an OLD fuse.  Only time will tell if it is heat 
related.

Ray

 

On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Brad Crawford  wrote:

I had a similar issue this last weekend. We  motored from Elliott Bay to Port 
Ludlow, set the hook, shut the engine off, about a half hour later I decided to 
relocate the anchor.  I depressed the starter switch and nothing happened, 
tried a couple of times, no start.  So we stayed put figuring I’d tackle the 
problem in the morning.  The next morning she started right up.  On the way 
back a few days later, we motored from Kingston back to Elliott Bay Marina, we 
stopped at the fuel dock to empty the waste tank, when finish I again depressed 
the start button to move on to our slip.  Same thing, no start, I checked 
around looking for something obvious that may have caused the problem, found 
nothing, so we waited about 45 – 60 minutes.  After a cool down time I tried 
again depressing the start switch and she started right up. I think my issue 
may be heat related but not sure?  Could it be the switch, fuse or fuse holder, 
solenoid, or starter?  Any ideas? Has anyone else experienced this?

Thanks,

Brad

81 C&C 36

Elliott Bay 

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Re: Stus-List Max-Prop settings

[dwight via CnC-List]

Bill 

 

Are those speeds in flat water with no significant current?

 

I can't comment specifically on the Max prop but I have a nominal 30 hp
Universal M4-30 diesel engine in my 35 MKII and I use a 3 blade Autoprop,
which is self pitching so it chooses for itself what is the proper pitch for
a given rpm.at 2400 rpm Alianna cruises at hull speed and is still very
quiet without any sound damping materials in the engine room.If I am driving
into a strong head wind or heavy seas I will rev her to 2600-3000 to
maintain over 6kts but I like steaming at 1600 rpm because it is very quiet
and that will drive Alianna at 5 to 5.5 knots into 10-12 kts apparent wind.
I really don't have a slow speed unless I shift to neutral because at idle
which is set at 1000 rpm she still moves along at about 2.5 kts.  I shift
the transmission in and out of gear and let her coast a bit to achieve slow
speed while approaching a mooring or dock.

 

I have had this setup for 10 years and nothing has changed during that time.

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: August 15, 2014 2:30 PM
To: C&C List; Bill Hoyne
Subject: Re: Stus-List Max-Prop settings

 

Oh and resetting the pitch means another haul (more money).  Live with it at
least till next season's haul.

Josh

On Aug 15, 2014 12:30 PM, "Bill Hoyne via CnC-List" 
wrote:

Hi All,

Here are the results of my Max Prop issues.

 

I have a C&C 35 Mk II with a  Volvo Penta 2003 28hp with a 2.4:1 reduction
MS2B transmission max RPM is 3200. The prop is a left rotation. The Max Prop
is 14" and set to 24 deg (X=C, Y=E). This gives 11.6" pitch. The original
settings were way off with wrong settings for any degree and thus the
issues. 

Now I am getting 3000rpm = 6.8-6.9 knots, 2800 rpm = 6.4 knots, 2600rpm =
6.0 knots. 

 

How are does this compare with what you guys are seeing? Do you guys thing I
can go up to 26 deg and get better speed at some what lower RPM? 3000 rpm is
rather loud ( especially if you are motoring for several hours), 26-2700 is
much easier on the ears but still loud. (Any ideas on what is best to sound
proof the engine compartment?)

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS I just did my first cruise. An 11 day trip in the Gulf Islands. Lots of
fun!! No dents or dings and the boat still floats!!

 

Bill Hoyne

Mithrandir

'74 C&C35 MkII

in Victoria,BC

 

 

On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:23 AM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List
 wrote:





I think that will be the plan of attack. 

 

On Jul 28, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List
 wrote:





I agree with Josh on contacting Hutch at PYI to get the best info. Your
description of being unable to reach full RPM when in gear does sound like a
reduction in pitch is called for.

 

I have changed the pitch on Calypso's MAX Prop several times including the
original effort at installation.  For a few years I intentionally ran 10%
over pitch to reduce cruise speed RPM.  Before we went around Vancouver
Island (2011) I reduced pitch by one increment to be sure we could achieve
full RPM (horsepower) when motoring into bigger waves and higher winds.  The
reduction to cruise speed (at a smooth engine RPM) was about .2 knot with no
measurable change in fuel consumption.

 

The MAX prop owner's manual has the chart that describes the X Y
relationship to pitch.  I have heard tales of divers willing and able to
change the pitch on a classic MAX prop underwater.  I would not attempt it
myself and in the past set up a deal with a yard to haul and hold in the
slings for the change then re-launch.  It may take several haul/launch
cycles if you want to fully optimize the pitch.

 

Martin

Calypso

1971 C&C 43

Seattle




 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:22 PM
To: C&C List; Bill Hoyne
Subject: Re: Stus-List Prop Grease (Now Max-Prop settings)

 

Bill,

Contact Fred "Hutch" Hutchinson at PYI.  He'll be able to tell you
immediately where to start.

  hu...@pyiinc.com

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Jul 28, 2014 12:16 AM, "Bill Hoyne via CnC-List" <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hi All,

I have a Max Prop of unknown diameter (forgot to measure when I had the boat
out of the water).  I also have a Volvo Penta 2003 and when I run the engine
in idle I get 3000+ RPM,s but when I run it in gear I only get 1900-2000
RPM's. I suspect the pitch is a little high. ( A dripless seal, new shaft
and cutless bering were installed last year and in the process the max-prop
was taken off and may not have been installed with the original specs of
which I don't have from the PO.) My question in does anybody out there know
what the X,Y values should be for a typical C&C MKII? I would like a
starting point to compare what is in the prop now and where I shoul

Re: Stus-List Max-Prop settings

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Oh and resetting the pitch means another haul (more money).  Live with it
at least till next season's haul.

Josh
On Aug 15, 2014 12:30 PM, "Bill Hoyne via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Hi All,
> Here are the results of my Max Prop issues.
>
> I have a C&C 35 Mk II with a  Volvo Penta 2003 28hp with a 2.4:1 reduction
> MS2B transmission max RPM is 3200. The prop is a left rotation. The Max
> Prop is 14" and set to 24 deg (X=C, Y=E). This gives 11.6" pitch. The
> original settings were way off with wrong settings for any degree and thus
> the issues.
> Now I am getting 3000rpm = 6.8-6.9 knots, 2800 rpm = 6.4 knots, 2600rpm =
> 6.0 knots.
>
> How are does this compare with what you guys are seeing? Do you guys thing
> I can go up to 26 deg and get better speed at some what lower RPM? 3000 rpm
> is rather loud ( especially if you are motoring for several hours), 26-2700
> is much easier on the ears but still loud. (Any ideas on what is best to
> sound proof the engine compartment?)
>
> Cheers,
> Bill
>
> PS I just did my first cruise. An 11 day trip in the Gulf Islands. Lots of
> fun!! No dents or dings and the boat still floats!!
>
> *Bill Hoyne*
> Mithrandir
> '74 C&C35 MkII
> in Victoria,BC
>
>
> On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:23 AM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I think that will be the plan of attack.
>
> On Jul 28, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I agree with Josh on contacting Hutch at PYI to get the best info. Your
> description of being unable to reach full RPM when in gear does sound like
> a reduction in pitch is called for.
>
> I have changed the pitch on Calypso's MAX Prop several times including the
> original effort at installation.  For a few years I intentionally ran 10%
> over pitch to reduce cruise speed RPM.  Before we went around Vancouver
> Island (2011) I reduced pitch by one increment to be sure we could achieve
> full RPM (horsepower) when motoring into bigger waves and higher winds.
> The reduction to cruise speed (at a smooth engine RPM) was about .2 knot
> with no measurable change in fuel consumption.
>
> The MAX prop owner's manual has the chart that describes the X Y
> relationship to pitch.  I have heard tales of divers willing and able to
> change the pitch on a classic MAX prop underwater.  I would not attempt it
> myself and in the past set up a deal with a yard to haul and hold in the
> slings for the change then re-launch.  It may take several haul/launch
> cycles if you want to fully optimize the pitch.
>
> Martin
> Calypso
> 1971 C&C 43
> Seattle
>
> 
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Josh Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:22 PM
> *To:* C&C List; Bill Hoyne
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Prop Grease (Now Max-Prop settings)
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Contact Fred "Hutch" Hutchinson at PYI.  He'll be able to tell you
> immediately where to start.
>
> hu...@pyiinc.com
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Jul 28, 2014 12:16 AM, "Bill Hoyne via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I have a Max Prop of unknown diameter (forgot to measure when I had the
> boat out of the water).  I also have a Volvo Penta 2003 and when I run the
> engine in idle I get 3000+ RPM,s but when I run it in gear I only get
> 1900-2000 RPM's. I suspect the pitch is a little high. ( A dripless seal,
> new shaft and cutless bering were installed last year and in the process
> the max-prop was taken off and may not have been installed with the
> original specs of which I don't have from the PO.) My question in does
> anybody out there know what the X,Y values should be for a typical C&C
> MKII? I would like a starting point to compare what is in the prop now and
> where I should head to. The other question is can I do thin in the water or
> do I need to haul the boat?
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> *Bill Hoyne*
> Mithrandir
> '74 C&C35 MkII
> in Victoria,BC
>
>
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>
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Re: Stus-List Max-Prop settings

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Be careful over pitching it cause continuously running the engine below 80%
of full load can cause other problems such as coking up the exhaust elbow
and glazing the cylinders.  Lots of people like the idea of over pitching
the prop to run a little faster at a lower rpm.  I say, the difference in
speed is minimal and as for fuel efficiency, with these little engines your
probably not gonna use a full tank in a season anyway.  So that causes
problems too.

For me I want to be able to reach instantanious max rpm.  I won't run there
but I could get there if I had to.

Also as the bottom gets dirty you'll slow down, rpms will need to go up to
maintain speed...but you probably won't be able to speed up once the bottom
gets dirty enough.  If you overpitch the prop then at this point you will
be overloaded, below max rpm, and start blowing black smoke.

I'm kinda with Joel.  At most you might want to go the other way and
underpitch it a step.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 15, 2014 12:30 PM, "Bill Hoyne via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Hi All,
> Here are the results of my Max Prop issues.
>
> I have a C&C 35 Mk II with a  Volvo Penta 2003 28hp with a 2.4:1 reduction
> MS2B transmission max RPM is 3200. The prop is a left rotation. The Max
> Prop is 14" and set to 24 deg (X=C, Y=E). This gives 11.6" pitch. The
> original settings were way off with wrong settings for any degree and thus
> the issues.
> Now I am getting 3000rpm = 6.8-6.9 knots, 2800 rpm = 6.4 knots, 2600rpm =
> 6.0 knots.
>
> How are does this compare with what you guys are seeing? Do you guys thing
> I can go up to 26 deg and get better speed at some what lower RPM? 3000 rpm
> is rather loud ( especially if you are motoring for several hours), 26-2700
> is much easier on the ears but still loud. (Any ideas on what is best to
> sound proof the engine compartment?)
>
> Cheers,
> Bill
>
> PS I just did my first cruise. An 11 day trip in the Gulf Islands. Lots of
> fun!! No dents or dings and the boat still floats!!
>
> *Bill Hoyne*
> Mithrandir
> '74 C&C35 MkII
> in Victoria,BC
>
>
> On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:23 AM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I think that will be the plan of attack.
>
> On Jul 28, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I agree with Josh on contacting Hutch at PYI to get the best info. Your
> description of being unable to reach full RPM when in gear does sound like
> a reduction in pitch is called for.
>
> I have changed the pitch on Calypso's MAX Prop several times including the
> original effort at installation.  For a few years I intentionally ran 10%
> over pitch to reduce cruise speed RPM.  Before we went around Vancouver
> Island (2011) I reduced pitch by one increment to be sure we could achieve
> full RPM (horsepower) when motoring into bigger waves and higher winds.
> The reduction to cruise speed (at a smooth engine RPM) was about .2 knot
> with no measurable change in fuel consumption.
>
> The MAX prop owner's manual has the chart that describes the X Y
> relationship to pitch.  I have heard tales of divers willing and able to
> change the pitch on a classic MAX prop underwater.  I would not attempt it
> myself and in the past set up a deal with a yard to haul and hold in the
> slings for the change then re-launch.  It may take several haul/launch
> cycles if you want to fully optimize the pitch.
>
> Martin
> Calypso
> 1971 C&C 43
> Seattle
>
> 
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Josh Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:22 PM
> *To:* C&C List; Bill Hoyne
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Prop Grease (Now Max-Prop settings)
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Contact Fred "Hutch" Hutchinson at PYI.  He'll be able to tell you
> immediately where to start.
>
> hu...@pyiinc.com
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Jul 28, 2014 12:16 AM, "Bill Hoyne via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I have a Max Prop of unknown diameter (forgot to measure when I had the
> boat out of the water).  I also have a Volvo Penta 2003 and when I run the
> engine in idle I get 3000+ RPM,s but when I run it in gear I only get
> 1900-2000 RPM's. I suspect the pitch is a little high. ( A dripless seal,
> new shaft and cutless bering were installed last year and in the process
> the max-prop was taken off and may not have been installed with the
> original specs of which I don't have from the PO.) My question in does
> anybody out there know what the X,Y values should be for a typical C&C
> MKII? I would like a starting point to compare what is in the prop now and
> where I should head to. The other question is can I do thin in the water or
> do I need to haul the boat?
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> *Bill Hoyne*
> Mithrandir
> '74 C&C35 MkII
> in Victoria,BC
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To

Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

> Could it be heat related.

As the temp rises so does the DC resistance.  If the start / run wiring has 
loose or corroded connections or undersized / corroded wires they may pass 
enough voltage and current to work at lower temperatures but not when hot.

A starter solenoid may suffer from voltage drop as the wiring heats up pushing 
it from just barely working to not working.

Brad, when you say nothing happened, does that mean the starter did not crank?  
If so, I would follow the wiring from the key back to the starter and tighten 
the connections if loose, repair corrosion if found before replacing the 
starter and solenoid.

Martin
Calypso
1971 C&C 43
Seattle

[Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]

From: Raymond Macklin [mailto:ray.mack...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 3:55 AM
To: Brad Crawford
Cc: Martin DeYoung; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.

Everyone:
Thanks for the input.  I replaced the 30 amp fuse like i was instructed and it 
started up right away.  Brad brings up a good point.  Could it be heat related. 
 I guess I should have tried starting it before replacing the fuse, but i 
immediately changed the fuse and it worked.  I looked at the fuse and it still 
looked good.  However, it was an OLD fuse.  Only time will tell if it is heat 
related.
Ray

On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Brad Crawford 
mailto:bcrawf7...@comcast.net>> wrote:
I had a similar issue this last weekend. We  motored from Elliott Bay to Port 
Ludlow, set the hook, shut the engine off, about a half hour later I decided to 
relocate the anchor.  I depressed the starter switch and nothing happened, 
tried a couple of times, no start.  So we stayed put figuring I’d tackle the 
problem in the morning.  The next morning she started right up.  On the way 
back a few days later, we motored from Kingston back to Elliott Bay Marina, we 
stopped at the fuel dock to empty the waste tank, when finish I again depressed 
the start button to move on to our slip.  Same thing, no start, I checked 
around looking for something obvious that may have caused the problem, found 
nothing, so we waited about 45 – 60 minutes.  After a cool down time I tried 
again depressing the start switch and she started right up. I think my issue 
may be heat related but not sure?  Could it be the switch, fuse or fuse holder, 
solenoid, or starter?  Any ideas? Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks,
Brad
81 C&C 36
Elliott Bay
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Re: Stus-List Max-Prop settings

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Bill,

Couple thoughts:
If you are getting a max of 3000 rpm you already have too much pitch.  I
would not go up; I might go down one click.
You should cruise at 80% of max rpm or 2500-2600 rpm.

I have a 35/3 with a max-prop set to 14 degrees, but my reduction gear is
2.6:1  I get to 3500 rpm with a rating of 3600 rpm.

Joel


On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
> Here are the results of my Max Prop issues.
>
> I have a C&C 35 Mk II with a  Volvo Penta 2003 28hp with a 2.4:1 reduction
> MS2B transmission max RPM is 3200. The prop is a left rotation. The Max
> Prop is 14” and set to 24 deg (X=C, Y=E). This gives 11.6” pitch. The
> original settings were way off with wrong settings for any degree and thus
> the issues.
> Now I am getting 3000rpm = 6.8-6.9 knots, 2800 rpm = 6.4 knots, 2600rpm =
> 6.0 knots.
>
> How are does this compare with what you guys are seeing? Do you guys thing
> I can go up to 26 deg and get better speed at some what lower RPM? 3000 rpm
> is rather loud ( especially if you are motoring for several hours), 26-2700
> is much easier on the ears but still loud. (Any ideas on what is best to
> sound proof the engine compartment?)
>
> Cheers,
> Bill
>
> PS I just did my first cruise. An 11 day trip in the Gulf Islands. Lots of
> fun!! No dents or dings and the boat still floats!!
>
> *Bill Hoyne*
> Mithrandir
> ’74 C&C35 MkII
> in Victoria,BC
>
>
> On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:23 AM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I think that will be the plan of attack.
>
> On Jul 28, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I agree with Josh on contacting Hutch at PYI to get the best info. Your
> description of being unable to reach full RPM when in gear does sound like
> a reduction in pitch is called for.
>
> I have changed the pitch on Calypso’s MAX Prop several times including the
> original effort at installation.  For a few years I intentionally ran 10%
> over pitch to reduce cruise speed RPM.  Before we went around Vancouver
> Island (2011) I reduced pitch by one increment to be sure we could achieve
> full RPM (horsepower) when motoring into bigger waves and higher winds.
> The reduction to cruise speed (at a smooth engine RPM) was about .2 knot
> with no measurable change in fuel consumption.
>
> The MAX prop owner’s manual has the chart that describes the X Y
> relationship to pitch.  I have heard tales of divers willing and able to
> change the pitch on a classic MAX prop underwater.  I would not attempt it
> myself and in the past set up a deal with a yard to haul and hold in the
> slings for the change then re-launch.  It may take several haul/launch
> cycles if you want to fully optimize the pitch.
>
> Martin
> Calypso
> 1971 C&C 43
> Seattle
>
> 
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Josh Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:22 PM
> *To:* C&C List; Bill Hoyne
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Prop Grease (Now Max-Prop settings)
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Contact Fred "Hutch" Hutchinson at PYI.  He'll be able to tell you
> immediately where to start.
>
> hu...@pyiinc.com
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Jul 28, 2014 12:16 AM, "Bill Hoyne via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I have a Max Prop of unknown diameter (forgot to measure when I had the
> boat out of the water).  I also have a Volvo Penta 2003 and when I run the
> engine in idle I get 3000+ RPM,s but when I run it in gear I only get
> 1900-2000 RPM’s. I suspect the pitch is a little high. ( A dripless seal,
> new shaft and cutless bering were installed last year and in the process
> the max-prop was taken off and may not have been installed with the
> original specs of which I don’t have from the PO.) My question in does
> anybody out there know what the X,Y values should be for a typical C&C
> MKII? I would like a starting point to compare what is in the prop now and
> where I should head to. The other question is can I do thin in the water or
> do I need to haul the boat?
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> *Bill Hoyne*
> Mithrandir
> ’74 C&C35 MkII
> in Victoria,BC
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
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>
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>
>
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>
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> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- g

Stus-List blown alternator diode

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

When I blew my diodes, the engine controls charging light came on...

The guy I bought my alternator from is still on Ebay  Just search for
Yanmar  3GM30 Alternator on eBay.  He's selling them for $120.00 free
shipping for a 55 or 60 amp brand new fully insulated Hitachi.  I think
Hitachi is the OEM for Yanmar as it looked perfectly identical to the
$700.00 Yanmar piece except for the fan behind the pulley.  The Yanmar is
solid, the Hitachi has the traditional fan blades.

All the connections and mounting are identical, it's a 30 minutes plug and
play affair to install.


-Francois
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, Georgia


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Re: Stus-List Max-Prop settings

[Bill Hoyne via CnC-List]

Hi All,
Here are the results of my Max Prop issues.

I have a C&C 35 Mk II with a  Volvo Penta 2003 28hp with a 2.4:1 reduction MS2B 
transmission max RPM is 3200. The prop is a left rotation. The Max Prop is 14” 
and set to 24 deg (X=C, Y=E). This gives 11.6” pitch. The original settings 
were way off with wrong settings for any degree and thus the issues. 
Now I am getting 3000rpm = 6.8-6.9 knots, 2800 rpm = 6.4 knots, 2600rpm = 6.0 
knots. 

How are does this compare with what you guys are seeing? Do you guys thing I 
can go up to 26 deg and get better speed at some what lower RPM? 3000 rpm is 
rather loud ( especially if you are motoring for several hours), 26-2700 is 
much easier on the ears but still loud. (Any ideas on what is best to sound 
proof the engine compartment?)

Cheers,
Bill

PS I just did my first cruise. An 11 day trip in the Gulf Islands. Lots of 
fun!! No dents or dings and the boat still floats!!

Bill Hoyne
Mithrandir
’74 C&C35 MkII
in Victoria,BC


On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:23 AM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List  
wrote:

> I think that will be the plan of attack. 
> 
> On Jul 28, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
>> I agree with Josh on contacting Hutch at PYI to get the best info. Your 
>> description of being unable to reach full RPM when in gear does sound like a 
>> reduction in pitch is called for.
>>  
>> I have changed the pitch on Calypso’s MAX Prop several times including the 
>> original effort at installation.  For a few years I intentionally ran 10% 
>> over pitch to reduce cruise speed RPM.  Before we went around Vancouver 
>> Island (2011) I reduced pitch by one increment to be sure we could achieve 
>> full RPM (horsepower) when motoring into bigger waves and higher winds.  The 
>> reduction to cruise speed (at a smooth engine RPM) was about .2 knot with no 
>> measurable change in fuel consumption.
>>  
>> The MAX prop owner’s manual has the chart that describes the X Y 
>> relationship to pitch.  I have heard tales of divers willing and able to 
>> change the pitch on a classic MAX prop underwater.  I would not attempt it 
>> myself and in the past set up a deal with a yard to haul and hold in the 
>> slings for the change then re-launch.  It may take several haul/launch 
>> cycles if you want to fully optimize the pitch.
>>  
>> Martin
>> Calypso
>> 1971 C&C 43
>> Seattle
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh 
>> Muckley via CnC-List
>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:22 PM
>> To: C&C List; Bill Hoyne
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Prop Grease (Now Max-Prop settings)
>>  
>> Bill,
>> 
>> Contact Fred "Hutch" Hutchinson at PYI.  He'll be able to tell you 
>> immediately where to start.
>> 
>> hu...@pyiinc.com
>> 
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>> 
>> On Jul 28, 2014 12:16 AM, "Bill Hoyne via CnC-List"  
>> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I have a Max Prop of unknown diameter (forgot to measure when I had the boat 
>> out of the water).  I also have a Volvo Penta 2003 and when I run the engine 
>> in idle I get 3000+ RPM,s but when I run it in gear I only get 1900-2000 
>> RPM’s. I suspect the pitch is a little high. ( A dripless seal, new shaft 
>> and cutless bering were installed last year and in the process the max-prop 
>> was taken off and may not have been installed with the original specs of 
>> which I don’t have from the PO.) My question in does anybody out there know 
>> what the X,Y values should be for a typical C&C MKII? I would like a 
>> starting point to compare what is in the prop now and where I should head 
>> to. The other question is can I do thin in the water or do I need to haul 
>> the boat? 
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>>  
>> Bill Hoyne
>> Mithrandir
>> ’74 C&C35 MkII
>> in Victoria,BC
>>  
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of 
>> page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> 
> Email address:
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> at:
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Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

[Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List]

  
  

  I read that here on an earlier C&C thread - but I thought that
  you could switch between 1 - both - 2 without a problem - just
  don't flip through the "off" position.
  
  I did find a MaineSail article on SailBoat Owners where he
  describes re-wiring the switch so that the alternator charge is
  going directly back to the battery and avoids the risk of the
  switch rotating through the off position.
  
  Mark
  
There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana
  On 15/08/2014 10:34 AM, Jerome Tauber via CnC-List wrote:

The most common cause of diode failure on older boats
  is turning the battery 1-2-all switch while the engine is
  running.  This causes a brief period of no load on the
  alternator and blows the diodes.   Jerry C&C 27 V
 

-Original
  Message-
  From: Jack Fitzgerald via CnC-List
  
  To: Burt Stratton ;
  C&CList 
  Sent: Fri, Aug 15, 2014 8:45 am
  Subject: Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode
  
  
Also, you will notice that your batteries
  will discharge much faster than normal when used sail if
  it is the blocking diodes that have failed as the
  alternator will become a very large drain.
  
  
  
Jack Fitzgerald
  C&C 39 TM
Savannah, GA
  

  
  

On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 8:36
  AM, Burt Stratton via CnC-List 
  wrote:
  

  
Simple
answer:
 
Most
do have internal diodes. To be sure you can
google the part number of the alternator or
look it up on the manufacturers web site.
 
You
should see around 13.5 to 14 ish volts
across your starting battery terminals when
running. It will vary a little depending on
the condition of the battery. If you have an
ammeter you should see it move to the plus
side of zero after starting. If you see 12
or less volts across your starting battery
terminals when running or negative amps when
running you have a problem with the
alternator which could be the voltage
regulator or diodes (assuming the belt is
not slipping).
 
Skip
 

  
From:
CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of wwadjo...@aol.com
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014
8:21 AM
To: Brad Crawford via CnC-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List blown
alternator diode
  

 

  
The thread on
alternators got me to ask myself, "how
do you known if you have an internal
diode on alternator, and how do you know
if "blown?"
  
  
I am, electrically
challenged, admittedly.
  
  
Bill Walker
  
  
 CnC 36
  
  
 
  
  
 
  
  
Sent from my HTC
  

 
  


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Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Sorry, I guess I should have more accurately referred to it as a secondary
starting solenoid.

Josh
On Aug 15, 2014 11:00 AM, "Josh Muckley"  wrote:

> Do you have a separate starting relay?  I think it was on this list that
> someone was saying that the wires, push button and key switch are not
> robust enough for the starter.  A secondary relay solves this and prevents
> drawing too much current.  You'll probably never have to even look at the
> fuse again.
>
> Josh
> On Aug 15, 2014 6:55 AM, "Raymond Macklin via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Everyone:
>> Thanks for the input.  I replaced the 30 amp fuse like i was instructed
>> and it started up right away.  Brad brings up a good point.  Could it be
>> heat related.  I guess I should have tried starting it before replacing the
>> fuse, but i immediately changed the fuse and it worked.  I looked at the
>> fuse and it still looked good.  However, it was an OLD fuse.  Only time
>> will tell if it is heat related.
>> Ray
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Brad Crawford 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  I had a similar issue this last weekend. We  motored from Elliott Bay
>>> to Port Ludlow, set the hook, shut the engine off, about a half hour later
>>> I decided to relocate the anchor.  I depressed the starter switch and
>>> nothing happened, tried a couple of times, no start.  So we stayed put
>>> figuring I'd tackle the problem in the morning.  The next morning she
>>> started right up.  On the way back a few days later, we motored from
>>> Kingston back to Elliott Bay Marina, we stopped at the fuel dock to empty
>>> the waste tank, when finish I again depressed the start button to move on
>>> to our slip.  Same thing, no start, I checked around looking for something
>>> obvious that may have caused the problem, found nothing, so we waited about
>>> 45 - 60 minutes.  After a cool down time I tried again depressing the start
>>> switch and she started right up. I think my issue may be heat related but
>>> not sure?  Could it be the switch, fuse or fuse holder, solenoid, or
>>> starter?  Any ideas? Has anyone else experienced this?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> 81 C&C 36
>>>
>>> Elliott Bay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
>>> *Martin
>>> DeYoung via CnC-List
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 14, 2014 10:35 AM
>>> *To:* Raymond Macklin; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse
>>> Issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I had a similar issue with a 1980 C&C 36's 3 cyl. Yanmar after a night
>>> passage.  The electrical load from the running lights and other nav
>>> equipment caused a fuse located at the back of the engine to blow.  The
>>> fuse was in an in-line holder as part of the wire harness.  This was
>>> approx. 20 years ago so I don't recall which circuit it was part of but it
>>> may have been the 12V supply for both the lights and the electric fuel lift
>>> pump.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> Calypso
>>>
>>> 1971 C&C 43
>>>
>>> Seattle
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: Description: Description:
>>> cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
>>> *Raymond
>>> Macklin via CnC-List
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 14, 2014 5:08 AM
>>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> *Subject:* Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>> I have a 1985 C&C 33-2 with a Yanmar, Diesel 2GM20F engine.  I was
>>> sailing last night and started the motor like normal to get out of harbor.
>>> However, when I went to  come back in to the harbor.  I proceed to follow
>>> my normal process.  I put the transmission in Neutral and reached down to
>>> turn the key and heard the whistle sound and press the start button.
>>> NOTHING HAPPENED.  Kept trying on different batteries and still nothing.  I
>>> also looked at the gauges with the motor would not start and my gas gauge
>>> read empty and i know i have a full tank.
>>>
>>> We got back into the harbor and someone showed my how to jump the
>>> motor.  I started right up.  He indicated it might be a fuse.
>>>
>>> Is anyone familiar with the location of the fuse between the key and the
>>> motor and the type of fuse i may be needing to repair this.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>>> LakeHouse
>>>
>>> Libertyville, IL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Diesel - Yanmar 2GM20F, fresh water cooled
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Do you have a separate starting relay?  I think it was on this list that
someone was saying that the wires, push button and key switch are not
robust enough for the starter.  A secondary relay solves this and prevents
drawing too much current.  You'll probably never have to even look at the
fuse again.

Josh
On Aug 15, 2014 6:55 AM, "Raymond Macklin via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Everyone:
> Thanks for the input.  I replaced the 30 amp fuse like i was instructed
> and it started up right away.  Brad brings up a good point.  Could it be
> heat related.  I guess I should have tried starting it before replacing the
> fuse, but i immediately changed the fuse and it worked.  I looked at the
> fuse and it still looked good.  However, it was an OLD fuse.  Only time
> will tell if it is heat related.
> Ray
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Brad Crawford 
> wrote:
>
>>  I had a similar issue this last weekend. We  motored from Elliott Bay
>> to Port Ludlow, set the hook, shut the engine off, about a half hour later
>> I decided to relocate the anchor.  I depressed the starter switch and
>> nothing happened, tried a couple of times, no start.  So we stayed put
>> figuring I'd tackle the problem in the morning.  The next morning she
>> started right up.  On the way back a few days later, we motored from
>> Kingston back to Elliott Bay Marina, we stopped at the fuel dock to empty
>> the waste tank, when finish I again depressed the start button to move on
>> to our slip.  Same thing, no start, I checked around looking for something
>> obvious that may have caused the problem, found nothing, so we waited about
>> 45 - 60 minutes.  After a cool down time I tried again depressing the start
>> switch and she started right up. I think my issue may be heat related but
>> not sure?  Could it be the switch, fuse or fuse holder, solenoid, or
>> starter?  Any ideas? Has anyone else experienced this?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> 81 C&C 36
>>
>> Elliott Bay
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Martin
>> DeYoung via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 14, 2014 10:35 AM
>> *To:* Raymond Macklin; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse
>> Issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> I had a similar issue with a 1980 C&C 36's 3 cyl. Yanmar after a night
>> passage.  The electrical load from the running lights and other nav
>> equipment caused a fuse located at the back of the engine to blow.  The
>> fuse was in an in-line holder as part of the wire harness.  This was
>> approx. 20 years ago so I don't recall which circuit it was part of but it
>> may have been the 12V supply for both the lights and the electric fuel lift
>> pump.
>>
>>
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> Calypso
>>
>> 1971 C&C 43
>>
>> Seattle
>>
>>
>> [image: Description: Description:
>> cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
>> *Raymond
>> Macklin via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 14, 2014 5:08 AM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Subject:* Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>> I have a 1985 C&C 33-2 with a Yanmar, Diesel 2GM20F engine.  I was
>> sailing last night and started the motor like normal to get out of harbor.
>> However, when I went to  come back in to the harbor.  I proceed to follow
>> my normal process.  I put the transmission in Neutral and reached down to
>> turn the key and heard the whistle sound and press the start button.
>> NOTHING HAPPENED.  Kept trying on different batteries and still nothing.  I
>> also looked at the gauges with the motor would not start and my gas gauge
>> read empty and i know i have a full tank.
>>
>> We got back into the harbor and someone showed my how to jump the motor.
>> I started right up.  He indicated it might be a fuse.
>>
>> Is anyone familiar with the location of the fuse between the key and the
>> motor and the type of fuse i may be needing to repair this.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> LakeHouse
>>
>> Libertyville, IL
>>
>>
>>
>> Diesel - Yanmar 2GM20F, fresh water cooled
>>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

[dwight via CnC-List]

Thought most were make before break switches

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jerome
Tauber via CnC-List
Sent: August 15, 2014 10:34 AM
To: j...@fitzgeraldforwarding.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com;
bstrat...@falconnect.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

 

The most common cause of diode failure on older boats is turning the battery
1-2-all switch while the engine is running.  This causes a brief period of
no load on the alternator and blows the diodes.   Jerry C&C 27 V 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jack Fitzgerald via CnC-List 
To: Burt Stratton ; C&CList

Sent: Fri, Aug 15, 2014 8:45 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

Also, you will notice that your batteries will discharge much faster than
normal when used sail if it is the blocking diodes that have failed as the
alternator will become a very large drain. 

 

Jack Fitzgerald

C&C 39 TM
Savannah, GA




 

On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Burt Stratton via CnC-List
 wrote:

Simple answer:

 

Most do have internal diodes. To be sure you can google the part number of
the alternator or look it up on the manufacturers web site.

 

You should see around 13.5 to 14 ish volts across your starting battery
terminals when running. It will vary a little depending on the condition of
the battery. If you have an ammeter you should see it move to the plus side
of zero after starting. If you see 12 or less volts across your starting
battery terminals when running or negative amps when running you have a
problem with the alternator which could be the voltage regulator or diodes
(assuming the belt is not slipping).

 

Skip

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 8:21 AM
To: Brad Crawford via CnC-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

 

The thread on alternators got me to ask myself, "how do you known if you
have an internal diode on alternator, and how do you know if "blown?"

I am, electrically challenged, admittedly.

Bill Walker

 CnC 36

 

 

Sent from my HTC

 


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  _  


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/8000 - Release Date: 08/07/14
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

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Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

[Steve Thomas via CnC-List]

Too true, and the alternator can seem ok while charging. Happened to us on a 
friend's boat in Florida this winter. Took the alternator to a Miami alternator 
shop, they put it on a machine, it produced 14.7 V and they said it was ok. We 
later discovered that the alternator was getting warm every time the battery 
switch was on, and not just when it was supposed to be energised. Back to the 
shop and they replaced a circuit board for $35. End of problem. Alternator was 
really really difficult to get at, or we might have figured it out sooner. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jack Fitzgerald via CnC-List 
  To: Burt Stratton ; C&CList 
  Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 8:44 AM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode


  Also, you will notice that your batteries will discharge much faster than 
normal when used sail if it is the blocking diodes that have failed as the 
alternator will become a very large drain.


  Jack Fitzgerald
  C&C 39 TM
  Savannah, GA




  On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Burt Stratton via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Simple answer:



Most do have internal diodes. To be sure you can google the part number of 
the alternator or look it up on the manufacturers web site.



You should see around 13.5 to 14 ish volts across your starting battery 
terminals when running. It will vary a little depending on the condition of the 
battery. If you have an ammeter you should see it move to the plus side of zero 
after starting. If you see 12 or less volts across your starting battery 
terminals when running or negative amps when running you have a problem with 
the alternator which could be the voltage regulator or diodes (assuming the 
belt is not slipping).



Skip



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 8:21 AM
To: Brad Crawford via CnC-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode



The thread on alternators got me to ask myself, "how do you known if you 
have an internal diode on alternator, and how do you know if "blown?"

I am, electrically challenged, admittedly.

Bill Walker

 CnC 36





Sent from my HTC




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--


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Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

[Petar Horvatic via CnC-List]

Lower output in measured  DC Amps.  

For the more electrically savvy, higher ripple as now you have less than 6 
diodes rectifying.  

On a better  quality and higher output alternators, like balmar, amptech etc, 
you can see them built into the body, shiny circles with numbers on them, 
sometimes 3 are marked with red dot and 3 are marked with black dot indicating 
polarity.   There is a great alternator handbook in pdf floating around on the 
web.  URL escapes me.  It gives details of all types of alternators.  On a 
cheepo and lower output alternators they might be in a form of an IC.  
(integrated circuit)

The issue is the back emf which all inductive parts have.  If your alternator 
has no place to dump the current and you disconnect the batteries while engine 
is running, high voltage spikes are generated.  If diodes are not specified to 
withstand these voltages which could be in the order 500V or higher (usually 
the case with rectifying ICs as they are cheaper and smaller form factor) they 
tend to fail.

 

Hope that helped clarify what’s going on inside the alternator casing. 

 

 

Petar Horvatic

Sundowner

76 C&C 38MkII

Newport, RI

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 8:21 AM
To: Brad Crawford via CnC-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

 

The thread on alternators got me to ask myself, "how do you known if you have 
an internal diode on alternator, and how do you know if "blown?"

I am, electrically challenged, admittedly.

Bill Walker

 CnC 36

 

 

Sent from my HTC

 

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Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

[Jerome Tauber via CnC-List]

The most common cause of diode failure on older boats is turning the battery 
1-2-all switch while the engine is running.  This causes a brief period of no 
load on the alternator and blows the diodes.   Jerry C&C 27 V
 

-Original Message-
From: Jack Fitzgerald via CnC-List 
To: Burt Stratton ; C&CList 
Sent: Fri, Aug 15, 2014 8:45 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode


Also, you will notice that your batteries will discharge much faster than 
normal when used sail if it is the blocking diodes that have failed as the 
alternator will become a very large drain.


Jack Fitzgerald
C&C 39 TM
Savannah, GA





On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Burt Stratton via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Simple answer:
 
Most do have internal diodes. To be sure you can google the part number of the 
alternator or look it up on the manufacturers web site.
 
You should see around 13.5 to 14 ish volts across your starting battery 
terminals when running. It will vary a little depending on the condition of the 
battery. If you have an ammeter you should see it move to the plus side of zero 
after starting. If you see 12 or less volts across your starting battery 
terminals when running or negative amps when running you have a problem with 
the alternator which could be the voltage regulator or diodes (assuming the 
belt is not slipping).
 
Skip
 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 8:21 AM
To: Brad Crawford via CnC-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

 

The thread on alternators got me to ask myself, "how do you known if you have 
an internal diode on alternator, and how do you know if "blown?"

I am, electrically challenged, admittedly.

Bill Walker

 CnC 36

 

 

Sent from my HTC

 


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Re: Stus-List Nice sail but dangerous waters in harbor

[Curtis via CnC-List]

Got to love it. Adventure !!!


On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Finished a couple boat jobs yesterday and decided to go out on the lake
> for a late afternoon sail.  Not much breeze but a pleasant sail nonetheless.
>
> After the pleasant uneventful sail, I entered Mandeville Harbor afterwards
> (30 20' 50", 90 03' 46").  There was a guy on the seawall fighting a fish.
> His buddy waved at me to move to the far side of the entrance to allow him
> to play the fish.  As I went by the fish broke the surface.  Wow!  Looked
> like a 3-4 footer, species unknown.  Then his line broke.  Too bad.
>
> I continued up the harbor into the narrow bayou and made the sharp right
> hand turnHoly Crap!  Here comes one of my marina friends in his Leopard
> 38 catamaran with 20+ foot beam.  I eased as far to the edge of the channel
> watching that my shrouds didn't hit overhanging branches from a cypress
> tree.  We passed with 3 feet between us.
>
> A couple hundred yards later I had to dodge a moderately sized alligator
> swimming up the bayou.
>
> Glad to get Touche' back into the slip.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
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>
>


-- 

*Best regards,*


*Curtis McDaniel, *


*C&C 30-MK1 East Coast Lady*


*Port Royal,*


*South Carolina*

*cpt.b...@gmail.com *


* __/) *

.
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Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

[Jack Fitzgerald via CnC-List]

Also, you will notice that your batteries will discharge much faster than
normal when used sail if it is the blocking diodes that have failed as the
alternator will become a very large drain.

Jack Fitzgerald
C&C 39 TM
Savannah, GA


On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Burt Stratton via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Simple answer:
>
>
>
> Most do have internal diodes. To be sure you can google the part number of
> the alternator or look it up on the manufacturers web site.
>
>
>
> You should see around 13.5 to 14 ish volts across your starting battery
> terminals when running. It will vary a little depending on the condition of
> the battery. If you have an ammeter you should see it move to the plus side
> of zero after starting. If you see 12 or less volts across your starting
> battery terminals when running or negative amps when running you have a
> problem with the alternator which could be the voltage regulator or diodes
> (assuming the belt is not slipping).
>
>
>
> Skip
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *
> wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, August 15, 2014 8:21 AM
> *To:* Brad Crawford via CnC-List
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode
>
>
>
> The thread on alternators got me to ask myself, "how do you known if you
> have an internal diode on alternator, and how do you know if "blown?"
>
> I am, electrically challenged, admittedly.
>
> Bill Walker
>
>  CnC 36
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my HTC
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> page at:
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>
>
>
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Stus-List Nice sail but dangerous waters in harbor

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Finished a couple boat jobs yesterday and decided to go out on the lake for
a late afternoon sail.  Not much breeze but a pleasant sail nonetheless.

After the pleasant uneventful sail, I entered Mandeville Harbor afterwards
(30 20' 50", 90 03' 46").  There was a guy on the seawall fighting a fish.
His buddy waved at me to move to the far side of the entrance to allow him
to play the fish.  As I went by the fish broke the surface.  Wow!  Looked
like a 3-4 footer, species unknown.  Then his line broke.  Too bad.

I continued up the harbor into the narrow bayou and made the sharp right
hand turnHoly Crap!  Here comes one of my marina friends in his Leopard
38 catamaran with 20+ foot beam.  I eased as far to the edge of the channel
watching that my shrouds didn't hit overhanging branches from a cypress
tree.  We passed with 3 feet between us.

A couple hundred yards later I had to dodge a moderately sized alligator
swimming up the bayou.

Glad to get Touche' back into the slip.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

[Burt Stratton via CnC-List]

Simple answer:

 

Most do have internal diodes. To be sure you can google the part number of the 
alternator or look it up on the manufacturers web site.

 

You should see around 13.5 to 14 ish volts across your starting battery 
terminals when running. It will vary a little depending on the condition of the 
battery. If you have an ammeter you should see it move to the plus side of zero 
after starting. If you see 12 or less volts across your starting battery 
terminals when running or negative amps when running you have a problem with 
the alternator which could be the voltage regulator or diodes (assuming the 
belt is not slipping).

 

Skip

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 8:21 AM
To: Brad Crawford via CnC-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

 

The thread on alternators got me to ask myself, "how do you known if you have 
an internal diode on alternator, and how do you know if "blown?"

I am, electrically challenged, admittedly.

Bill Walker

 CnC 36

 

 

Sent from my HTC

 

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Re: Stus-List blown alternator diode

[wwadjourn]

The thread on alternators got me to ask myself, "how do you known if you have 
an internal diode on alternator, and how do you know if "blown?"
I am, electrically challenged, admittedly.
Bill Walker
CnC 36


Sent from my HTC

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Re: Stus-List Alternator for Yanmar 3GM30

[s/v Johanna Rose via CnC-List]

Take a look at Spider Marine.  They have a new Hitachi 60Amp alternator for the 
3GM30 listed for $120.

http://www.spidermarine.com/inventory/search/make/yanmar%20marine/model-and-submodel/3gm30/year//liters/0/engine-type/any/fuel-type/any/aspiration/a

--
Paul E
C&C Landfall 38
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL


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Stus-List Alternator for Yanmar 3gm30

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi, I bought mine on ebay last year. I paid 85-90 bucks shipped. It's a genuine Hitachi 55 or 60 amps fully insulated with the exact same connections / look / mounting as the original Yanmar (I think they are made by Hitachi). I took the opportunity to throw in a new belt as well. It was a plug and play 30 minutes install.
I believe the same guy is still selling them he's asking 120.00 shipped now. Just search Yanmar 3gm30 alternator on ebay. 
It works perfectly. No issues for me. 
I was considering replacing my old fashion wet lead acid batteries for AGM I got talked off the ledge. I was told they are particular with charging and not tolerant of deep discharges as well. Since mine were still good I figured I'd spend my $$ elsewhere... 
-Francois
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, Georgia
Sent from IBM Notes Traveler

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Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.

[Raymond Macklin via CnC-List]

Everyone:
Thanks for the input.  I replaced the 30 amp fuse like i was instructed and
it started up right away.  Brad brings up a good point.  Could it be heat
related.  I guess I should have tried starting it before replacing the
fuse, but i immediately changed the fuse and it worked.  I looked at the
fuse and it still looked good.  However, it was an OLD fuse.  Only time
will tell if it is heat related.
Ray


On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Brad Crawford 
wrote:

>  I had a similar issue this last weekend. We  motored from Elliott Bay to
> Port Ludlow, set the hook, shut the engine off, about a half hour later I
> decided to relocate the anchor.  I depressed the starter switch and nothing
> happened, tried a couple of times, no start.  So we stayed put figuring I’d
> tackle the problem in the morning.  The next morning she started right up.
> On the way back a few days later, we motored from Kingston back to Elliott
> Bay Marina, we stopped at the fuel dock to empty the waste tank, when
> finish I again depressed the start button to move on to our slip.  Same
> thing, no start, I checked around looking for something obvious that may
> have caused the problem, found nothing, so we waited about 45 – 60
> minutes.  After a cool down time I tried again depressing the start switch
> and she started right up. I think my issue may be heat related but not
> sure?  Could it be the switch, fuse or fuse holder, solenoid, or starter?
> Any ideas? Has anyone else experienced this?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Brad
>
> 81 C&C 36
>
> Elliott Bay
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Martin
> DeYoung via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 14, 2014 10:35 AM
> *To:* Raymond Macklin; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse
> Issue.
>
>
>
> I had a similar issue with a 1980 C&C 36’s 3 cyl. Yanmar after a night
> passage.  The electrical load from the running lights and other nav
> equipment caused a fuse located at the back of the engine to blow.  The
> fuse was in an in-line holder as part of the wire harness.  This was
> approx. 20 years ago so I don’t recall which circuit it was part of but it
> may have been the 12V supply for both the lights and the electric fuel lift
> pump.
>
>
>
> Martin
>
> Calypso
>
> 1971 C&C 43
>
> Seattle
>
>
> [image: Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Raymond
> Macklin via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 14, 2014 5:08 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Stus-List 2GM20F Engine will not start - Possible Fuse Issue.
>
>
>
> Hello:
>
> I have a 1985 C&C 33-2 with a Yanmar, Diesel 2GM20F engine.  I was sailing
> last night and started the motor like normal to get out of harbor.
> However, when I went to  come back in to the harbor.  I proceed to follow
> my normal process.  I put the transmission in Neutral and reached down to
> turn the key and heard the whistle sound and press the start button.
> NOTHING HAPPENED.  Kept trying on different batteries and still nothing.  I
> also looked at the gauges with the motor would not start and my gas gauge
> read empty and i know i have a full tank.
>
> We got back into the harbor and someone showed my how to jump the motor.
> I started right up.  He indicated it might be a fuse.
>
> Is anyone familiar with the location of the fuse between the key and the
> motor and the type of fuse i may be needing to repair this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray
>
> LakeHouse
>
> Libertyville, IL
>
>
>
> Diesel - Yanmar 2GM20F, fresh water cooled
>
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